General Debate 17 April 2011

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OECD rank 22 kiwi

Love that TV3 poll. Labour to get hammered.
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April 17, 2011 6:14pm
magic bullet

Penny – i suspect that NZ has been held at the mercy of the international banking syndicate families at least since Holyoke (save for Norm Kirk’s brief tenure). Wherever the IMF or World Bank goes, we tend to follow – at least on the main macroeconomic settings. The problem is, since we have an economy that is highly dependent on foreign capital, these people have the implicit threat of capital flight, or other acts of economic sabotage. They have us over a barrel, and our leaders know it.
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April 17, 2011 6:17pm
publicwatchdog

Rex – in reply to your question:

“Do you know from whence Mr Siemer draws this conclusion? The reasoning is (quite wrongly, IMO) suppressed, so has he obtained the judgment and broken the order?”

Yes – Vince Siemer DID breach Winkelmann’s ‘court order’ and is AGAIN facing prosecution for contempt of court.

He is VERY gutsy, and has been jailed on three previous occasions for contempt of court although he has not broken any law.

‘Court orders’ based on Judge’s ‘discretion which has no basis in the RULE OF LAW – absolutely should be ‘breached’, in my considered opinion.

http://www.kiwisfirst.co.nz

CROWN TO PERSECUTE WHERE LAW PREVENTS PROSECUTION

18 December 2010

Urewera raid defendants are lining up to appeal Auckland High Court Justice Helen Winkelmann’s Judgment that potential jurors would use “improper reasoning processes” and, therefore, a judge-alone trial is necessary when trying the fifteen defendants. It is understood most of the defendants have already signed up to an appeal to be filed with the Court of Appeal in late January.

Meanwhile, Crown Law has sent notice that it intends to prosecute kiwisfirst publisher Vince Siemer for publishing Winkelmann’s judgment, on the grounds Winkelmann ordered the public not be told about it. Crown Law is seeking Siemer be imprisoned.

The threat to prosecute comes despite Meredith Connell advising the High Court and Crown Law that they intend to seek rescission of all suppression orders on behalf of the prosecution on the grounds publication of Winkelmann’s judgment “cannot possibly prejudice the fair trial rights of the accused, and (the issues in the judgment) are a matter of genuine public interest.”

________________________________________________________________________________________________

JUDGE OR BE JUDGED

10 December 2010

Chief High Court Judge Helen Winkelmann (pictured) ordered yesterday that the “Urewera terrorist” prosecution (R v Bailey) against 15 accused will be by judge alone trial. The landmark ruling was sought on application by the Crown and had been opposed by the accused.

The remaining three of the eighteen listed defendants were ordered separate trials.

Winkelmann J ordered the public not be told about her order. In the past Winkelmann has stated the reason for such secrecy was to ensure the jury pool is not prejudiced by pre-trial information. Her latest order prohibiting a jury states the potential length of the trial, or that jurors would use “improper reasoning processes” , each provide a sufficient ground for denial of jury trial in her mind.

In responding to the defendants’ assertion the Bill of Rights Act 1990 ensures the right to elect trial by jury when facing more than 3 months prison, Her Honour stated the Supreme Court declared last year in Wenzel v R that barring a jury trial did not violate the Bill of Rights Act. The Supreme Court reasoning in Wenzel v R was that judges are as fair as juries, even though the Bill of Rights guarantee to jury trial is not founded on contrary reasoning.

The R v Bailey accused were originally charged under the Terrorist Suppression Act. After widespread public protests, Solicitor General David Collins dropped the terrorism charges in October 2007. Most are now charged with arms violations: some with organised crime activity.

Justice Winkelmann was the Judge who earlier concurred with Police that their Court affidavit used to obtain the nationwide search warrants in the massive arrests be suppressed, then revoked bail on Crown application after Auckland District Court Judge Josephine Bouchier granted bail for some of the accused in 2007. In 2009, Justice Winkelmann struck out several of those search warrants as unlawful. Last month, the Court of Appeal reinstated them after the Crown appealed.

Winkelmann’s ruling yesterday means the eighteen originally charged wrongly by the Crown as terrorists will now have their guilt or innocence determined by a Crown judge, as the Crown is being forced to justify its actions in the raids to the Uited Nations.

The arrests were the culmination of a 13 month and multi-million dollar covert police investigation in 2007 which made news headlines around the world. ”
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

What do fair-minded Kiwis who believe in the ‘Rule of Law’ – think about THIS?

(Don’t expect much support from most who post on Kiwiblog, on this point 🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 17, 2011 6:20pm
Put it away

magic bullet flapping around madly in all direction trying to find a point, as usual. Moron, most people grow out of being leftards as they get older. Late *anything* is going to have a larger proportion of conservatives. If someone comes out of the closet at age 18 or whatever, they’re likely to also be a leftard because they’re young and naive. If that same person waits til they’re 30 or 40 ( for whatever reason) they’ve probably had enough years experience in the real world to know that the leftard causes they believed in when they were 18 are horseshit.
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April 17, 2011 6:22pm
Pete George

And when people get older still some drift towards NZF. That’s hardly getting more conservative.

By the look of the New Zealand First website it’s all based on a sole pensioner – the deputy leader slot is blank, and under About it has details on one Winston Peters, History, and that’s all.
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April 17, 2011 6:28pm
publicwatchdog

# nasska (382) Says:
April 17th, 2011 at 10:26 am

Sunday morning……time for the conspiracy theorists amongst us to have a lie in & reflect that the loveless Saturday nights between them & the grave are now one fewer.”

Didn’t know you were a conspiracy theorist ‘nasska’?

You poor lonely thing.

I’m into FACTS myself.

I’ve got LOTS of friends, and a LOVELY man 😉

All the best 🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 17, 2011 6:30pm
alex Masterley

PB,

Judge alone or trial by jury for the Uewera 17.

Given that some of the defendants have lawyers who the Legal Services Agency will have on their “watch list”, the trial will be conducted in “te reo” and will occupy a considerable period of time i am happy that it will be a judge alone trial.

No-one can afford to be on a jury for the length of time this case will take, especially with the translation time which will slow down proceedings by a factor of in excess of 3-4 times.

Given that most if not all of the U17 are legally aided i think having a judge alone trial is a good outcome.

Oh and by the way do you think the Pike river 27 were murdered. As my little boy says “yes or no”.

Come to the plate Penny, yes or no?
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April 17, 2011 6:30pm
magic bullet

Of course – a suspicion i have is that the whole urewera 18 media circus has been a dress-rehearsal for more serious events in the future. New Zealanders are pretty laid back, and take a bit of shaking up before we will submit to a kind of marshal law situation. That said- Gerry Brownlee has that kind of power in Christchurch at the moment thanks to CERA. If the Bill of Rights Act is suspended and the Urewera 18 are denied a jury trial, it paints a very bleak future of possibilities.
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April 17, 2011 6:33pm
alex Masterley

Strangely enough they, the U17, were all arrested before the Nats won the 2008 election.
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April 17, 2011 6:35pm
Nookin

You still don’t get it, Penny. The government intended to tie by-laws to Bora before Ike was prosecuted. It says so. Sarcasm and ad hom are unbecoming of you. There is a distinct difference between cause and effect and coincidence of time. You have shown a connection in time but not cause and effect. Debate is over for me.
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April 17, 2011 6:36pm
Put it away

That’s just how devious the VRWC is, alex, we get labour to do our conspiracies for us. Muahahahahah !!!!

Magic Bullet is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
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April 17, 2011 6:41pm
Put it away

“And when people get older still some drift towards NZF. ”

Dementia wrecks the trend on the graph. LOL
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April 17, 2011 6:43pm
alex Masterley

PIA, I get that impression about MB.
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April 17, 2011 6:52pm
Komata

PIA

Re the ‘Maui’ tale. The things we learn!! Thanks for the info. Very informative – will update my records.
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April 17, 2011 7:16pm
Put it away

I never knew it was so widely spread round the pacific. We all learned something today.
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April 17, 2011 7:18pm
publicwatchdog

“You still don’t get it, Penny. The government intended to tie by-laws to Bora before Ike was prosecuted. It says so. Sarcasm and ad hom are unbecoming of you. There is a distinct difference between cause and effect and coincidence of time. You have shown a connection in time but not cause and effect. Debate is over for me.”

Really Nookin?

Yet MORE intellectual SLOP from you?

So – if the (Labour) Government intended to tie by-laws to the BORA – how come it was only Labour who voted against this arguably pivotal amendment moved by Stephen Franks:

“The amendment to clause 112 would add a new subclause (3), to read: “No bylaw may be made which is inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, notwithstanding section 4 of that Act.”

Here is the Hansard record of the vote on that amendment:

“The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson): We now have to vote again on clause 112. We are voting on the amendment in the name of Stephen Franks, as amended, to add new subclause (3).

Hon. Dr Nick Smith: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. One of the reason we having problems with the voting—and we have seen errors from both the Government and the United Future party—is that the Supplementary Order Papers and other amendments are in such a mess on the Table that I literally do not know now which amendment is being voted on. I wonder whether it is possible, before you cast this vote, to make it absolutely plain which provision is being voted on. I have genuinely looked through all the papers on the Table. I think it is important that the Committee does know what it is voting for.

Stephen Franks: Would it help if I read the amendment?

The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson): I think it might. Would the member read the amendment to the Committee? I would appreciate that, thank you.

Stephen Franks: The amendment to clause 112 would add a new subclause (3), to read: “No bylaw may be made which is inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, notwithstanding section 4 of that Act.”

The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) put the question that the following amendment, as amended, in the name of Stephen Franks to clause 112 be agreed to:

to add the following subclause:

(3) No bylaw may be made which is:

(a) inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, notwithstanding section 4 of that Act:

(b) inconsistent with the rights of exclusive use, enjoyment, and disposal of property assured by Article 2 of the Treaty of Waitangi.

A party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment as amended be agreed to.

Hon. Ken Shirley: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I think we have got ourselves into a lot of difficulty here. I raised the point of order before because I was aware that a misunderstanding and an error had occurred. That was why I referred to the provisions of Standing Order 154. My understanding is that we have just repeated that error. [ Interruption ] I may have misunderstood my colleague’s indication to me.

A party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment as amended be agreed to.

Ayes 66

New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 9; Green Party 9; United Future 8.

Noes 52

Labour 52.

Majority for: 14
Amendment, as amended, agreed to.”

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

So, on that amendment, there was a most unusual situation where Parliament effectively voted against the Government .

This also proves that I am no Labour Party hack, and confirms I work on an issue by issue basis.

Tell the truth Nookin – you don’t want to debate’ anymore, because you are on a hiding to nowhere and I have just kicked your butt?

But – you are not man/woman enough to admit you were wrong – you now just want to ‘run away’.

In my opinion, my calling you ‘intellectually ‘lazy’ or ‘sloppy’ is not ad hominum ‘abuse – it is a FACT.

Next time – may I respectfully suggest that you may pay more attention to this ‘Public Watchdog’?

My opinions are considered, and my word is not to be taken lightly.

I growl before I bite.

You were warned.

😉

Penny Bright

http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 17, 2011 7:31pm
Rex Widerstrom

publicwatchdog says:

Yes – Vince Siemer DID breach Winkelmann’s ‘court order’ and is AGAIN facing prosecution for contempt of court.

Good on him. I’m not in agreement with everything he does, but this is a clear-cut case where the public interest is served by, and no part of the legal process is damaged by, disclosure.

It allows debate around the issue of the competence of juries in complex cases and also about the fact that (as alex Masterley notes) juries are the single most under-valued part of the judicial process such that no one can afford to be on one (other than the elderly and the unemployed, and that’d be like leaving voting in a general election up to NZF and Greens voters 😉 )

Don’t expect much support from most who post on Kiwiblog, on this point

Actually, while I find it damned difficult to convince many here that an injustice has occurred in the first place, when the Kiwiblog commentariat genuinely believes one has been committed (as, gratifyingly, they appear to do in my case) then one could ask for no more strident nor steadfast group of supporters.

I’ve already noticed plenty of disquiet about the suppression ruling here (albeit coloured in some instances by a belief in the probability of the guilt of the accused – but in one way that makes opposition to the suppression more principled).
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April 17, 2011 7:46pm
publicwatchdog

Rex Widerstrom (4,245) Says:
April 17th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

publicwatchdog says:

Yes – Vince Siemer DID breach Winkelmann’s ‘court order’ and is AGAIN facing prosecution for contempt of court.

Good on him. I’m not in agreement with everything he does, but this is a clear-cut case where the public interest is served by, and no part of the legal process is damaged by, disclosure.”

Cheers Rex.

I REALLY recommend that people have a look at Vince Siemer’s website http://www.kiwisfirst.co.nz and think for themselves, about the issues he is raising.

We share the view that in order for the NZ judiciary to be truly ‘open, transparent and accountable’ then we need three fundamental changes:

1) An enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for all NZ Judges based on the Bangalore Principles of Judicial conduct.

2) An enforceable “Pecuniary Register of Interests for Judges’.

3) ALL NZ Court proceedings to be recorded.
(How can justice be done or be seen to be done when there is no record in Court of WHAT was done’?

How come NZ ‘perceived’ to be the least corrupt country in the world doesn’t already have this judicial ”transparency’?

What do you think Rex?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 17, 2011 7:59pm
magic bullet

master bukake, – intellectual squirt PIA – I never said that Clark wasn’t beholden to the bankers. In fact if you had read my messages carefully, you would have seen that i said the opposite. Clark never changed our main macroeconomic settings, nor did she shy away from Bush’s phoney obsession with terrorism. You two bozos can’t even hold a line of reason.
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April 17, 2011 8:01pm
Rex Widerstrom

publicwatchdog:

1) An enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for all NZ Judges based on the Bangalore Principles of Judicial conduct.

In principle, absolutely. The key though lies in the word “enforceable”. People make the mistake of thinking that because their country has signed some charter or agreement it’s actually goign to abide by it. Many’s the time I’ve seen a dazed and confused litigant stagger from court after a judge has had to explain to them that the Minister’s signature photo-op meant nothing, and that in the x years since that happened, no government has codified in law the provisions of that charter.

That’s why NZ has a BORA and doesn’t simply rely on having signed the various UN human and civil rights protections – because they’re meaningless feel good exercises designed to provide cover for governments.

2) An enforceable “Pecuniary Register of Interests for Judges’.

By “enforceable” here I take it you mean penalties for non disclosure and for not standing aside from cases in which you have an interest? As opposed to barring judges from investing etc. In which case yes, absolutely.

3) ALL NZ Court proceedings to be recorded.

That they are not is bizarre. In Australia I can order a transcript of anything from a High Court deliberation on a constitutional issue to the sausage-factory Magistrates’ Court processing of the previous night’s drunks.
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April 17, 2011 8:15pm
Nookin

You are obsessive Penny and your your obsessiveness clouds your objectivity. Read the 2001 Act and the reference to BORA. Franks tightened it – reflecting the Joyce decision. You are now arguing another point. I have no intention of taking any notice of you without clear and verifiable supporting evidence and you still haven’t connected LGA 2002 to Finau. Go on – have the last word. It is quite clear that this debate is all about you and how clever you think you are. If that is your delusion of choice go live with it. I won’t get ulcers as a result.
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April 17, 2011 8:15pm
publicwatchdog

# Nookin (597) Says:
April 17th, 2011 at 8:15 pm

You are obsessive Penny and your your obsessiveness clouds your objectivity. Read the 2001 Act and the reference to BORA. Franks tightened it – reflecting the Joyce decision. You are now arguing another point. I have no intention of taking any notice of you without clear and verifiable supporting evidence and you still haven’t connected LGA 2002 to Finau. Go on – have the last word. It is quite clear that this debate is all about you and how clever you think you are. If that is your delusion of choice go live with it. I won’t get ulcers as a result.’

Don’t like losing eh Nookin?

I’m determined and persistent.
In this case I’m also factually accurate.

You are proving to be a mean-spirited poor sport, who can’t admit when he/she is wrong.

Not my idea of a rREAL man/woman.

A bit pathetic really.

You poor thing.

All the best 🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 17, 2011 8:23pm
Put it away

Magic bullet – “master bukake, – intellectual squirt PIA – I never said that Clark wasn’t beholden to the bankers. In fact if you had read my messages carefully, you would have seen that i said the opposite. Clark never changed our main macroeconomic settings, nor did she shy away from Bush’s phoney obsession with terrorism. ”

Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK? Where did this giant non sequitur come from? Where have I mentioned Clark, bankers, macroeconomics, or terrorism? Come to think of it, has anybody else?

“You two bozos can’t even hold a line of reason.”

What line of reason would that be, the one that you just completely made up, apropos of nothing, and claimed I was talking about?

Once again. Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK?
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April 17, 2011 8:37pm
reid

A bit pathetic really.

What’s pathetic Penny is you pretending you’re interested in having a conversation instead of merely promulgating your perspective.

Who the fuck do you think you are?

When I float a balloon, I respond to what people say about it. I don’t keep munting on repeatedly about the same idea as if the person hasn’t got it. The latter is what you do, all the time.

This is what makes you a waste of time.

WTF? You think you’re so incredibly astute you’re telling us something none of us hasn’t already thought of before?

This is the clear impression one gets Penny from reading any of your threads.

You could say that some of my threads also have an arrogant, know-it-all has-to-be-right tone. I accept that. I don’t agree I do it, but I accept that others see me like that sometimes. But something I always try to do which you never apparently ever try, is to listen and respond to what others say about what I said.

This is a blog, Penny. It’s an online discussion session, about political issues. If you’re having a discussion, it’s a two way thing, not a one-way impose-my-view Penny Bright Whistleblower wank session.
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April 17, 2011 8:42pm
immigant

Let me get this straight. Penny is saying that JK and a cabal of corporate overlords got a team of highly trained corporate saboteurs to blow up the Pike River mine in order to gain some sort of economic and political edge over NZ? Awsome!!
I read a lot of trash fiction, but this plot is really gold.

Penny, would you be able to kindly stem the flow of your mental diarrhoea long enough to concisely sum up in your own words, what you mean when you post that Pike River was a murder? No links, just your own words.
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April 17, 2011 8:54pm
TripeWryter

To sum up, then …

Penny Bright hasn’t been able to tell us who the anonymous, pseudonymous ‘Dr Jacob Cohen’ is.

She knows nothing about him.

She knows nothing about the truth or otherwise of what he says about the Pike River Mine deaths.

She cannot explain how the anonymous, pseudonymous ‘Dr Jacob Cohen’ knows how the men died in the mine, when the Royal Commission of inquiry plus other probes haven’t been able to tell us yet.

She doesn’t know, or will not say, whether she believes the men in mine were murdered — such an act would have had to have been deliberate, by someone. Who?

She doesn’t know, or will not say, whether the anonymous, pseudonymous ‘Dr Jacob Cohen’ was in the mine, or anywhere near the mine. How did he gather his ‘evidence’? When? Did he turn it over to the police? If not, why not?

Penny Bright has basked in the sunlight of attention.

She has not answered the questions that matter.

She has diverted, distracted, and jousted, and danced about to be clever — she has done everything but provide proof of anything.

It has been a lovely time, hasn’t it, Penny, all that attention?

You have not considered the effect of your actions on anybody to do with the mine families. It’s all been “Look at me, look at me”, hasn’t it?

I think that’s all I should contribute to this discussion.
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April 17, 2011 9:13pm
immigant

I’m noting this down I’m going to do a Ian Flemming or Andy Macnabb style best seller titled something like: “The Assasin Banker” or “The Prime Minister’s Furnace”. Watch for it on the Amazon top 10 list in fall 2013.
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April 17, 2011 9:23pm
Nookin

Immigant

How about “Da Jonkey Lode”?
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April 17, 2011 9:27pm
immigant

Helen’s apprentice and the Chasm of Fire
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April 17, 2011 9:45pm
Put it away

immigant – yes according to “jacob cohen” it’s all part of dastardly plot to do use the foreshore act to give the country’s resources to the maoris, so they can be duped into selling them to evil international jewish interests ( maoris are idiots you see ). All organised by the Queen who is the whore of babylon mentioned in the Bible. So overall it’s a bit more Dan Brown than Andy McNabb
Hang on, I thought Pike River was miles inland from the nearest bit of foreshore or seabed?
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April 17, 2011 10:15pm
Nookin

PIA
It’s called artisitic license. Common in all works of fiction.
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April 17, 2011 10:19pm
Mary Rose

Penny (and Puzzled)

A grief-stricken Pike River relative thinking it’s fishy doesn’t PROVE anything either way.

Wanting answers, thinking something could’ve been done to prevent it, wanting to blame someone = common and natural parts of the grieving process after a tragic death.

1. WHY would bankers, energy companies, the NZ government, the media (inc the non-‘foreign-bank-controlled’ state broadcaster) etc etc etc conspire to cover up murder at Pike River?

2. And WHY was that supposed murder committed in the first place?

And don’t copy/paste my entire post and then copy/paste some huge screed by somebody else underneath as a response.

One-paragraph answers of your own words to each question would suffice.

Preferably without reference to carassius auratus auratus.
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April 17, 2011 10:51pm
magic bullet

Many hundreds of billions are printed every year by the banking cartel known as “the federal reserve”. They lend that out ten times over, at interest, and lends to the governments of the world so it can collect taxes. So what does it do to earn all these fantastic privileges? Nothing. Does this not worry any kiwibloggers? Does it not seem inherently unethical and unfair? What kind of people do you think they are? Do you think that they aren’t able to buy huge influence in politics and society with this fantastic wealth? Why is it such a knee-jerk reaction of so many kiwibloggers to mediately dismiss assertions that this corrupt group behaves in a corrupt manner.
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April 18, 2011 12:50am
Put it away

“They lend that out ten times over, at interest, and lends to the governments of the world so it can collect taxes. ”

And yet it never occurs to you that this could be avoided by the governments of the world living within their means so they don’t need to borrow from international banks? How odd.
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April 18, 2011 7:09am
publicwatchdog

RE: “Murder at Pike River Mine?”

Allegations are such until they are proven – pretty basic concept I would have thought?

I am concerned that the VERY serious allegations made Dr Jacob Cohen are NOT going to be thoroughly investigated, and there IS going to be a cover up.

‘Whistle blowers’ -like myself, do research and find out information that proves that things are not being done in a ‘proper way’ – then makes a FUSS about it – because THAT’S WHAT ‘WHISTLEBLOWERS DO’ -otherwise HOW WOULD PEOPLE KNOW?

Duh.

This is not the first time that I have been contacted by ‘whistleblowers’ – who apparently come to me, because they understand that I am effective in helping to ‘make a fuss’ and get the message out.

Whether ‘Dr Jacob Cohen’ is a nom-de-plume is irrelevant.

It is WHAT is being alleged, not WHO is making the allegations that, in my considered opinion, is important.

Should a viewpoint, particularly one backed with verifiable references, be ignored, because the person expressing it is using a ‘nom-de-plume’?

If so – there wouldn’t be much that people would read on Kiwiblog!

🙂

Again – I STRONGLY recommend that you read ‘Murder at Pike River Mine?’ for yourself.

This is also the advice given by the son of one of the miners killed at Pike River Mine – a ‘next of kin’.

“Robbie – Before giving Key and the rest of his greedy cronies too much credit, I suggest you make an effort to find and read “Murder at Pike River”.”

By Joel
Robbie – Before giving Key and the rest of his greedy cronies too much credit, I suggest you make an effort to find and read “Murder at Pike River”.

In my opinion, there is a HIGH level conspiracy here involving foreign bankers, foreign energy companies, NZ govt, NZ Police and Pike River hierarchy.

My father is one of the 29 dead. I was present in all the meetings with officials, and to be honest, have smelt a rat the entire time.

So many things don’t add up, but say you only paid attention to the mainstream media, well, they have painted it in quite a different light.

The so called journalists, did very little investigative work.

The reason for this being, is at a high level, the same foreign bankers that own the mines, the same foreign bankers that lend our pathetic govt billions of dollars, are the same foreign bankers that own the majority of the global and local media, therefore control the flow of info.

The whole thing reeks of a cover-up.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Is-Phil-Goff-right-about-John-Key-and-Pike-River/tabid/1153/articleID/194675/Default.aspx”

I am assisting at least one of the dead miner’s ‘next-of-kin’ by helping to alert people to the publication ‘Murder at Pike River Mine?’

The ‘Murder at Pike River Mine?’ time line of critical dates is up on my blog, because some who comment on Kiwiblog have had difficulty in opening the ‘Murder at Pike River Mine?’ link that was provided.

If you don’t want to take MY recommendation to read ‘Murder at Pike River Mine?’ – then you might want to consider taking the recommendation of the above-mentioned son of one of the ‘murdered?’ miners?

“…. Before giving Key and the rest of his greedy cronies too much credit, I suggest you make an effort to find and read “Murder at Pike River”.”

Oh goodness me – it just so happens that me and the son of one of the ‘murdered?’ miners are saying EXACTLY the same thing!

“…. Before giving Key and the rest of his greedy cronies too much credit, I suggest you make an effort to find and read “Murder at Pike River.”

(‘Repetition is the mother of learning’ …………. for the ‘wilfully blind’ on Kiwiblog 🙂

Have a lovely day.
All the best.

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 18, 2011 9:49am
ciaron

Are you sure you’re not using the situation to “enhance” your own profile Penny?
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April 18, 2011 10:17am
Chuck Bird

‘Repetition is the mother of learning’ …………. for the ‘wilfully blind’ on Kiwiblog

Penny, do you believe that the 29 miners were murdered?
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April 18, 2011 11:51am
Pete George

Some Labour followers seem to think Asset Sales are a Hail Mary issue that will rescue them from irrelevance.

Is National likely to be cautious or bold with their asset sale policy?
Are asset sales likely to be a major factor in the election?
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April 18, 2011 12:00pm
RightNow

Sometimes you read stories that warm your heart.
Here’s the story of one man who made a difference in Marrickville Australia, where the Greens had a supposedly safe seat:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/greens-wilting-appeal/story-fn6b3v4f-1226040247085
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April 18, 2011 12:05pm
RightNow

If anyone DOES actually want to read Murder at Pike River Mine, get it here:
http://www.bilderberg.org/Murder_at_Pike_River_Mine.doc

Frankly I have better things to do with my time, but someone who has the time and inclination may wish to actually rebut the premises.
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April 18, 2011 12:07pm
kaya

Pete George – call me illogical (I don’t mind, I’ve been called worse) but if Gadaffi was running for power in NZ and he guaranteed no asset sales I would vote for him. Unless their is some actual plan that shows how the (guaranteed income generating asset) sale will help solve the actual problem of spending more than you earn, then it is a total waste of time.
It’s like dealing with obesity by putting another hole in your belt. Eventually you run out of options and then what?

I’m still waiting for the plan.
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April 18, 2011 12:11pm
ciaron

Right Now; before I waste my valuable lunchtime, what’s your initial impression?

Edit: I see your edit, anyone else keen to take one for the team?
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April 18, 2011 12:13pm
RightNow

Having had a little skim of the novella, I notice this amusing reference:
“39) May 28, 2010: The Standard publishes an article, “Key attempts misdirection, blind trust questions remain unanswered” about Key’s “Whitechapel” assets hidden in his blind trust “Algate.””

That’s right, The Standard is quoted as a source. I don’t think any more time needs to be wasted on this.
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April 18, 2011 12:15pm
alex Masterley

Ciaron, your 12:13.
no.
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April 18, 2011 12:17pm
kaya

Inflation at 4.5%, according to statistics from the government.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10720100

Am I the only one who finds these statistics irrelevant because I don’t actually believe them? Apparently food prices rose 1.2% for the year, sceptical doesn’t begin to describe my thoughts.

Apparently economists thought it would be more than that. Economics, a “discipline” created to give astrology credibility.
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April 18, 2011 12:19pm
ciaron

alex; can’t blame you 🙂
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April 18, 2011 12:19pm
RightNow

ciaron, alex, it has some funny moments. The reference to The Standard lends me to believe Dr Jacob Cohen is actually a NZ based lefty.
There is this interesting allegation that someone familiar with mining and stuff could shed more light on:

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqB6YBUhLJw
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/news/print.cfm?objectid=10690980
This author has studied this and other video footage of the event with international coal mining, gas and oil industry experts. All of whom conclude that the flames and smoke leaping from the top of the 110 meter ventilation shaft on the video clip CANNOT possibly be coming from burning coal at all (more than 110 meters below), or methane gas as the police and media deceptively claim. Coal and methane burns considerably cleaner with different colored flame and smoke and would not at all be in such high concentrations burning right at the top of the shaft (driven through hard rock) at such a huge intensity – irrespective of whether the main portal entrance to the access tunnel is open or not. The conclusion is that the fire on the video is a total deception and giant cover-up. It is probably coming from a 45 gallon drum (with its lid cut off) or some similar receptacle, circular deep dish or steel pot, carefully positioned inside the top of the shaft full of a diesel/fuel oil mixture or some similar accelerant mixture, to simulate burning coal or methane gas, which has been set alight to give the impression that the mine is spectacularly on fire when really it is not. Since this event has been cleverly orchestrated while the police have been in exclusive control and have quarantined the mine site completely, the Prime Minister, the Police Minister, Commissioner of Police and Superintendent Gary Knowles must therefore know what has been done and must therefore be charged for this heinous act and offence accordingly.
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April 18, 2011 12:35pm
lofty

I am utterly incredulous that anyone has the time,or inclination to write this very inventive drivel.

I suppose the good Dr is a product of the sheltered workshops and IHC homes being closed down.

RightNow: I have a bit of expertise in the fire matter I suppose, and I would have thought that burning coal etc would certainly develop large quantities of black smoke etc, particularly given the chimney effect of ventilation through the front door so to speak.
The allegation is ludicrous in the extreme, but if you are wearing a tin foil hat, I suppose it makes perfect sense.
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April 18, 2011 12:49pm
Pete George

The reference to The Standard lends me to believe Dr Jacob Cohen is actually a NZ based lefty.

But the references to “first degree murder” suggest a non-New Zealander.
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April 18, 2011 12:49pm
alex Masterley

RN,
I doff my hat to you.
If I could give out awards for gallantry, your efforts in reading that tripe would receive one.
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April 18, 2011 12:51pm