He is not a victim
April 1st, 2011 at 5:15 pm by David FarrarThe front page of Stuff has a headline “Shooting victim laid to rest” and the story starts off “Police shooting victim laid to rest”.
He is not a victim. He was not shot as an accident. He was shot because he chose to aim a shotgun at armed police officers, after earlier threatening unarmed police officers with it.
It’s like calling the terrorists who hijacked the 9/11 flights, victims.
Calling him a victim is an insult to those who are real victims of crime, and killed.
April 1st, 2011 at 5:20 pm
The circumstances surrounding this shooting are still under investigation. He is the victim of a shooting whether there is criminal culpability or not is yet to be determined.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 5:21 pm
Equally stupid is the question ‘who fired the first shot”?
If the ‘victim’ got nine shots in the body it is highly unlikely that he fired in response!
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Here we go …
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 5:29 pm
It amazes me that the left-leaning New Zealand media is desperately trying to make a ‘Martyr’ out of this person. I agree with David, he is not a ‘Victim’. He died as a result of his own actions…End of story.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 5:32 pm
The Dominion Post should also be ashamed of its front page story “Slain teen’s path began with Moon Man”, with a photo of the deceased next to a photo of Ken Ring.
His “path” began with his decision to go out with a shotgun and then point it at police. To tenuously link his actions to Ring’s predictions is despicable.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 5:44 pm
I agree with the post above re the investigation on who fired the 1st shot .. since when did a person with a gun confronting the Police be allowed to shoot 1st. If I was a cop and chased a suspect who stopped running and presented a gun then the fucker had better shoot quickly and straight because I would.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 5:48 pm
The sooner police officers are able to permanently carry firearms, the safer they and members of society who choose to live their lives in a legal manner will be.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:01 pm
I would be waiting until a bit more evidence was in the public domain before making that sort of proclamation DPF.
You may be right. But the Police might also be spinning it to cover their arses. Let’s just wait and see.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:02 pm
It’s like calling the terrorists who hijacked the 9/11 flights, victims.
Calling him a victim is an insult to those who are real victims of crime, and killed.
That’s a fairly heroic call to make at this stage I would have thought.
After all, we don’t yet know the deceased’s demeanor, his mindset, his actions leading up to it, do we?
But I do agree the media is sensationalising, again.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:04 pm
I would double check the date on the Stuff website never mind the ‘news’ reported. This whole news gathering organisation has lost touch with truth, with reality & it’s readers.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:04 pm
Mr Nobody
While you are right in what you say there is an even more certain way of making the entire population safer.
All we need to do is find a way of keep Maori crime down to the same percentage level as the rest of our society.
The liberals do not like it, and will not talk about it but if you remove Maori crime from our statistics then NZ becomes one of the safest places in the world.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:05 pm
Actually he might well be a victim, a victim of a society that refuses to face up to issues and would rather salve our consciouses by handing out a dole cheque. If you point a gun at the police chances are you are victim and desperate, with a mental illness or a violent criminal. Either way there can only be one outcome and for our media to sheet the blame back to the police is bullshit.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:16 pm
Either way there can only be one outcome and for our media to sheet the blame back to the police is bullshit.
With respect that’s bullshit cause there doesn’t have to be only the one outcome. Just cause a person presents a weapon doesn’t de-facto imply blammo.
That’s the point, which isn’t yet determined. None of us apart from the Dom Post apparently yet know whether or not he was a victim or a criminal. Yes?
So how can we seek to determine that question on this thread right now?
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:16 pm
Victim he was not! He asked for it.
The do-gooders and usual suspects come out in droves to the defense of another offender. On what grounds, may I ask?
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:16 pm
Once less wanker in NZ as far as I am concerned.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:27 pm
There’s a tombstone right there:
“One less Wanker”
But before ordering it, lets just see what happens with the inquiry. One thing though Reid, not sure I’d share your equanimity if someone pointed a gun at me and I was tooled up.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:28 pm
Seconded.
Shit bag, not victim.
It’s really easy to keep the police from shooting you. Just don’t point a shotgun at them. For some people I understand this is a lot to ask, and I am glad the police shoot such people.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:29 pm
@Ried. Sorry you are wrong, if you present a weapon to the police and it is a gun you are not leaving the police a lot of wriggle room. I am concerned about police powers.
http://hamishinauckland.wordpress.com/2011/02/20/strange-interactions-with-authorities/
But challenging the police directly is stupid Oh and for the record she never rang for a date.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:29 pm
I did not get shot today, either by the Police or anyone else. Wonder why? Could be because I don’t point firearms at people.
Vote:I also did not get tazered, battoned or even arrested. Wonder why?
Could it be that I am a law abiding citizen and not an arsehole? Wonder if the cops will be on my case tomorrow, doubt it.
Oh yeah, I am not Maori, so less likely to do anything criminal
April 1st, 2011 at 6:30 pm
You may be right. But the Police might also be spinning it to cover their arses. Let’s just wait and see.
What? Do you think the Po-lice were out cruising in their 5.0 chugging coffee and donuts looking for little Maori kids to bust a cap in with their Glock 9 milly?
And then poor Lauchlan, who was only on his way back home after delivering eco-pamphlets happened across the path of the murdering pigs…
OK I’ll admit, I found my old Cypress Hill CD the other day…
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:31 pm
Steve, you’ll never get in the papers with that kind of attitude.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:31 pm
Presumably I’m operating on the same publicly released info as you guys and from what I’ve seen I think it’s possible we’re looking at a mis-interpreted situation involving mental illness here.
It’s not necessarily what happened, but its not something we can rule out, given his otherwise as I believe, offence-free history.
@Reid. Sorry you are wrong, if you present a weapon to the police and it is a gun you are not leaving the police a lot of wriggle room. I am concerned about police powers.
Not denying that. Simply saying someone presenting a weapon at a trained officer is not the heart-attack territory it would be to someone untrained therefore rational thought-processes prevail therefore did what was rational, happen, or not. Fact there was a weapon, is not highly relevant, in that context.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:31 pm
“One less Wanker”
Fuck off! I want that one.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:37 pm
Plenty of people in the west do, including Obamas former Green Jobs Czar.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:37 pm
Too may arseholes, too few bullets
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:39 pm
we’re looking at a mis-interpreted situation involving mental illness here.
So if he’s mentaly I’ll the police shoudl not have shot him after he whipped out a 12 guage?
Such bollocks from grown men.
Better some waste of space then an expensive, highly trained cop I say.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:41 pm
It as bad as that horseshit headline the other day about how it was his granddad’s shotgun. Honestly who gives a shit if the gun he was planning to murder the police with has sentimental value? Luckily the incident ended with no one who contributes to society getting hurt. Put him in a hole and move on.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:43 pm
And what is more. Who can name one time in NZ history when Cops unlawfully shot someone?
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:49 pm
It could just be a sign of poor writing skills by the subbie and the jouro, but “victim” is a very context-specific description, implying innocence. Here’s a thesurus search on the word.
Vote:Main Entry: victim
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: someone or something sacrificed, preyed upon
Synonyms: babe in woods, butt, casualty, clown, dupe, easy make, easy mark, fatality, fool, gambit, gopher, gudgeon, gull, hireling, hunted, immolation, injured party, innocent, mark, martyr, patsy, pawn, pigeon, prey, pushover, quarry, sacrifice, scapegoat, sitting duck, sitting target, soft touch, stooge, sucker, sufferer, underdog, wretch
Antonyms: criminal, culprit
April 1st, 2011 at 6:49 pm
Halatau Naitoko.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:54 pm
cha
Big FAIL for you. It was an accident while they were shooting someone else. Nothing unlawful about it.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 6:59 pm
@ Ried. Think mate a guy presents a gun you are a police officer, I would suggest training has been followed. I don’t buy the line that cops shoot without thinking about it, I gather the shotgun was discharged ( shot ) once ( Whale might be able to add something on the weapon he is good at that stuff ) my experience of shot guns is they have two barrels. I think I would have shot first it would appear the police did not.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:01 pm
Thanks davinci. The MSM leftards would never publish any of my comments because it may expose the truth. They are aware of sunlight
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:05 pm
The OED defines victim as ”someone killed as a result of an event or circumstance”. That’s all the word means.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:07 pm
Righto, I’ll remember that if I ever transpose a neutral.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:12 pm
Oh for fucks sake Maggie lets define perpetrator
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:15 pm
IHStewart: my experience of shot guns is they have two barrels.
Some have two barrels, some have a single barrel – these can either be single shot or magazine fed, in which case I think up to 5 shots is common.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:18 pm
He was a shooting recipient.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:20 pm
Usage of “victim” will have widened but it originally came from….
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:20 pm
So if he’s mentaly I’ll the police shoudl not have shot him after he whipped out a 12 guage?
Who the heck knows immigant?
Sometimes it has to happen and sometimes it doesn’t. My only point is, none of us know yet which it is.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:23 pm
I agree with DPF. We were saying similar things at work after having seen the headline. It’s misleading to call him a victim. Whether he fired a shot or not, HE WAS AIMING A FIREARM AT POLICE for fuck’s sake. It’s sad somebody died, but given the circumstances, the Police are NOT in the wrong.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:31 pm
Dime is comfortable living in a world where you get shot by police if you aim a fucking shotgun at them.
Police shot to kill and im also happy with that.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:34 pm
He is a victim; a victim of his own stupidity.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:39 pm
If someone presents a firearm to police, leads them on a 15km+ chase then stops, get’s out of the vehicle with the gun then his actions could be reasonably described as suicide by police.
A “victim of suicide” would be an unusual use of the English language.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:39 pm
IH Stewart says
Oh for fucks sake Maggie lets define perpetrator
Oh for fucks (sic) sake, why don’t we do that, then?
Perpetrator: One who commits a crime.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:44 pm
Got it in one Mags.
One who commits a crime. Such as presenting a weapon?
A more accurate headline might have been, “Gunman Laid to Rest” rather than conjure up an emotive headline that presupposes an outcome.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:47 pm
Victim is a legal term to describe the person something happened to. If this went to trial and it was the police being charged with misconduct would you call him the offender and them the victim because they shot him? No. Victim is not related to whatever actions that person themselves may have done merely what has happened to them. Considering you also do not know the full story behind what happened it is very quick of you to pass immediately that the police were right in shooting him also.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:48 pm
This is all empty talk. Some gangster wannabe escapes police, then turns around, whips out a gun, and confronts cops, it doesn’t amtter who he is, how old he is, what he is, what he does for a living.
Vote:This bullshit talk of defending him only perpetuates a culture in which police are no longer feared by criminals.
If it was the choice between me and some Low Rydah from dah Sauff Syde, I know what I’d do.
When are normal NZers are going to stick up for one another instead of cooing and ahhing over people that don’t matter to this country?
April 1st, 2011 at 7:48 pm
Of course he is not a victim.
And no New Zealand police officer has ever lied before.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:49 pm
Aren’t all these judgments a little premature?
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:52 pm
“Aren’t all these judgments a little premature?”
Let’s see….
Scum with gang connections points gun at cops, scum with gang connections fires gun at cops.
Scum with gang connections is shot six times in the chest by Cops.
Scum with gang connections dies, thus saving the tax payer of NZ hundreds of thousands of dollars considering that Scum would have been a guest of her Majesty for most of the rest of his life, all in all, a good result.
So to answer your question Magic…I think we got this one right.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 7:55 pm
No fraid I agree with mb here.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 8:06 pm
With DPF on this even if some good points re investigation. A more neutral description would have been appropriate
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 8:17 pm
yea, after the cops gunned him down they placed the shotgun in his hands and went back to their car to finish their coffee.
beware, dont get pulled over by cops in a rural area, they will probably just shoot you.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 8:19 pm
Reid.
Name one other alternative you think could be found to have happened.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 8:26 pm
I’m with mb there too, we don’t know a lot of the details yet, although my guess is that Caleb is almost certainly suggesting nonsense.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 8:28 pm
The Soaff Side Lowrider, pulls over. Vaults over the car bonnet, shoots one cop in teh face, the other in the chest, then as he reloads on the fly kicks away the police dog. As the other police man franticaly scrambles for his glock, her get kicked in a Chuck Norris style takedown, instantly snapping his neck. Then as the Police helicopter arrives, the youff, shoots it down with a well placed blast from grand-dad’s shotgun to the petrol tank, sending it plummeting to the grownd in a fiery infferno. And the Gangstar Lowrider Killah takes off into the night.
Naaaah…. He would just have got shot 2k down the road by the next roadblock, thats more real I think.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 8:32 pm
I have a quirky little strategy Ive used for a number of years, and Ive found it really helpful. I dont point weapons at people who are carrying weapons. Ive never been shot. Not once.
YMMV. Or not.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 8:35 pm
Of course he’s a victim. The point is that what he’s a victim *of* is his own stupidity.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 8:40 pm
What James said (which was the same as I said an hour ealier
)
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 9:04 pm
Actually, hmmokrightis, neither did Jean Charles de Menezes or Erik Scott, but they’re both dead, shot by police without apparent good reason. And what’s more, no one has ever been prosecuted for either, yet. Look them up, not in NZ sure, but in London and Las Vegas. Like, cops never, ever shoot without reason, or lie, or kick people in the testicles, or plant evidence, do they ?
It’s all premature. Likely an unfortunate but probable “just cause”, but I think jumping on the bandwagon is unwise, if very tempting to those who like seeing people killed.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 9:09 pm
wheres Rex in all this..” Rex..come on , whats your take ? Bad copper shoots misunderstood loser? Rex ?
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 9:17 pm
Oh the irony that I’d stepped away from my RSS feeds for the day and bounced back here via your Bookface link Inv. Great minds and all that…
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 9:27 pm
Two of the very best James!
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 9:33 pm
I know what you’re thinking. “Did he fire six shots or only five?” Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you’ve got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 9:36 pm
Jesus, it just goes on and on.
Now kids will be looking up to these dirt-bags as heroes, not villains and the police as murderers and the bad guys.
Shame on Stuff.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 9:43 pm
Would you call this dumb arse a victim?
After walking around a marked police patrol car parked at the front door, a man walked into H&J Leather & Firearms intent on robbing the store. The shop was full of customers and a uniformed officer was standing at the counter. Upon seeing the officer, the would-be robber announced a hold-up and fired a few wild shots from a target pistol. The officer and a clerk promptly returned fire and several customers also drew their guns and fired. The robber was pronounced dead at the scene by Paramedics. Crime scene investigators located 47 expended cartridge cases in the shop. The subsequent autopsy revealed 23 gunshot wounds. Ballistics identified rounds from 7 different weapons. No one else was hurt.
3rd placing in the darwin awards.
I heard today the the “victim’s” mother blames Ken Ring for her sons death. He wouldn’t have left Christchurch if Ken hadn’t predicted another earthquake. How far will these lowlife go to avoid personal responsibility?
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 9:45 pm
Give the cop a pay rise and a promotion.
After all, he probably saved lives, potentially.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 9:56 pm
I note the Uncle apparently asked why the Police didn’t use their Tazers? Somehow I don’t think the Tazers were meant for dealing with armed offenders!
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 9:58 pm
Well said DPF!
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 10:10 pm
Keith Locke would be against the use of tasers Anthony
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 10:44 pm
Where am I in all this starboard? Well I’ve been out all day and only just had a chance to catch up with Kiwiblog. But you could simply have told me the topic and I’d have avoided wasting my time reading the comments, which are the usual mix of pig ignorance and bloodlust (with a few notable exceptions).
One of the highlights comes courtesy of immigant:
Hahahahahahahaha!! Yeah, highly trained in beating people when they think they’re not being watched. I take the whole “he pointed a gun at us” stuff with a grain of salt till it’s proven to be so, because some police deal brutally with anyone they encounter, whether or not that person resists. A quote from that second link: “A man whom police admit was disturbing no one is kicked and punched while being pinned to the ground”.
A big step from “let’s beat up a person we don’t like” to “let’s shoot a person we don’t like”? Not really. As Sean said above, easy to shoot someone and then place a gun in their hands later.
I’m not saying for a moment that’s what happened here. but nor can anyone (including DPF) say any different till the investigation is concluded. And let’s hope it’s truly independent, because I’m betting it won’t be.
As for the predictable “Yay, he’s dead!” comments, you people are no different to the psychopaths you claim to despise. You get off on human suffering. Even the worst criminal (and there’s no evidence this one was, just wild predictions of what he “inevitably” would have turned out like from people who don’t know diddly) has a mother, father, siblings, grandparents, children who will mourn him or her and don’t need to read a dose of your vitriol. Get some decency.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 10:50 pm
I imagine he’s a ‘shooting victim’ because they had to get ‘shooting’ into the headline (to give you a clue what the story is about and that’s all whoever wrote it could think of.
What noun could you put after ‘shooting’ that would actually work?
The Dom Post have come up with ‘shot teen,’ which is better.
But anyone who dies in a road accident gets described as a victim, even when they’ve brought in on themselves, because again, it’s shorthand for ‘dead person’ when innocence/guilt have yet to be officially established.
Bob R: The Dominion Post should also be ashamed of its front page story “Slain teen’s path began with Moon Man”, with a photo of the deceased next to a photo of Ken Ring.
It’s reporting what the mother said. And then picking out the most interesting angle for a headline.
Vote:‘Mum says shot son was heading towards good focus in Christchurch’ wouldn’t sell many papers, would it?
Which is the primary purpose of newspapers.
April 1st, 2011 at 10:53 pm
“Yaaaaaawwwwwnnnn “…aw sorry Rex , did you say something..?
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 11:00 pm
“Man shot by police laid to rest.”
More appropriate don’t you think Rex?
That’s the point after all.
Yes, no investigation yet, so why put your hand up and claim he was a VICTIM?
You know something we don’t?
Cause generally a guy out in public waving a loaded shot-gun around is highly likely to be shot by the police…you know to protect us, the unarmed public.
In what society, in what country doesn’t that happen?
You have a short memory, that’s for sure:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2391507/Police-officer-shot-dead-in-Napier
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 11:13 pm
Yeah starboard, you must bore even yourself. I wish ill on very few individuals, but I sincerely hope you meet our constabulary on a dark night walking home minding your own business, and forget yourself and object to being treated like you have no rights. I might even send flowers to your hospital bedside.
Bobbie Black: Yes, it would have been, absolutely.
I agree with francis above that the paper may not have been trying to convey an opinion with its headline, because “victim” doesn’t actually have the connotation of innocence that most people think it does.
But given that most people do wrongly infer that meaning, you’re right – they should have re-written the headline.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 11:20 pm
“has a mother, father, siblings, grandparents, children who will mourn him”
what if the boot was on the other foot and the copper was the one who got shot and killed by el scumo…would you be saying the same? Noooooo.. didnt think so. Your hatred of the NZ Police clouds your judgement Rex and your responses are soooooo predictable, I could even write them myself.
“
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 11:23 pm
My gut feeling is this guy was a scum bag that probably deserved what he got. However an investigation is needed as you can’t trust the police one bit. They are quick to investigate then prosecute people who defend themselves (without using proper discretion), and the police lying is definitely not unheard of.
Wanna bet that the cops came across this guy whilst out with their radar guns, or out busting some dope grower.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 11:32 pm
starboard:
Perhaps… but they’re not exactly doing their level best to prove me wrong, are they? Policeman denies kneeing man in left testicle. A policeman is testifying that he witnessed a typical bit of brutality (kudos to him!):
Oh, that’s alright then. Might not have been the left testicle, might have been the right one.
Here’s a suggestion for you: When you’re stopped for no reason and imperiously interrogated (and you will be, if you’re out and about and not wearing expensive gear or a police uniform), try kneeing the the cop in the balls and then arguing about which one it was, and see whether that avoids a tazering. Some animals are more equal than others, and the animals in blue uniforms are most equal of all.
So you’re imputing to me the opinion that, if a policeman was killed, his family would deserve no compassion? I should be insulted but I’m saddened. Take a good long look at yourself, starboard, because I think you see me as some sort of mirror image of yourself. I’m not. I haven’t lost any part of my humanity to hatred.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 11:44 pm
yep one saddo in the middle of the back of beyond can be likened to the 9/11 terrorists. What next? Mildly salacious remark about about female colleague = Jack the Ripper? Personal opinion about unons = ‘National party hack’? Policeman who tickets weekend speeder = fascist pig.
I’d suggest that such flabby reasoning would attract widespread negative comment if a poster made attempted such an ill-considered analogy.
Vote:April 1st, 2011 at 11:59 pm
It’s all part of the “keep ‘em scared and sell them on the belief only we can keep them safe” bullshit peddled by National and Labour, Lee.
The new NSW Justice Minister pledged to end it well before he was elected so let’s hope that state sets an example for the rest of that country and for NZ.
It’s the political equivalent of a protection racket… how’d people react if a politican came to your door and said “Nice place you got here… lovely wife and kids. Be a pity if anything happened to them… know what I mean? Better vote for us then, hadn’t you?” But that’s exactly what the parties – and their mouthpieces – do before every election, and people fall for it.
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 1:13 am
ya know why i believe the cops and what they described as going down?
cause no cop wants to use his weapon in this country! they would have to be fuckin nuts.
funny how most anti-cop people are trash. go figure.
rex – bumped into many cops while drunk over the years. nothing bad has ever happened to me. then again, im not a piece of shit so maybe that has something to do with it.
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 1:28 am
Yeah overall I think Kiwi cops are fair and do a good job.
Of course I had my fair share of run-ins with city cops as a defence lawyer. See the Control Sickness.
Once they saved my sad drunk ass. I had lost all my money at the casino was wandering along the highway, in the direction of the airport, not a cent on me.
They could have easily arrested me, but I told them my sorry story and how I had a plane to catch the next morning and they gave me a lift to my hotel, free of charge.
It’s as Dime said, they used their discretion. They sensed I was no threat to anyone but myself, just another drunk loser who lost money at the casino.
Of course, if I had been lippy, or an asshole with a grudge against cops that would have ended far differently.
I have had a few experiences like that with Kiwi cops where they helped me on their discretion but that one was the stand-out for me.
Give the cops a break.
They are the good guys, not the enemy.
In China things were different, I was thrown to the concrete and handcuffed for merely walking out of a bar with a stupid guy who had thrown a beer bottle at a taxi. I was totally innocent, had committed no crime and was unaware of his previous actions.
So, you should be thankful you have Kiwi cops who are pretty much non-corrupt.
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 2:00 am
dime:
From previous comments I suspect you’re reasonably wealthy. You probably dress well. You probably had a decent education (or have enough intelligence to give yourself one) so no, you’re not a “piece of shit” in the eyes of the cops. But I take it you don’t mind living in a country where, if you’re poor, shabbily dressed and not well educated – or even a bit mental (though harmless) – you become sport for any cop with a sef-control problem (which by my estimate is about a third of them)?
Bobbie Black:
The cops are not “the good guys”. There are bad guys and there are good guys amongst them, just as there are in wider society. To believe any different is naive. I simply try to balance the kneejerk “the cops are always right” response of the more Pavlovian of Kiwiblog commenters by pointing out the many, many examples where they’re anything but good. Some of them, in the words of a judge, are just “thugs… cowardly and contemptible… gratuitously violent”.
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 2:06 am
Sounds like you have taken a beating by cops Rex?
I met an Aussie guy in China who hated Maoris and I have an aversion to Russians, who nearly cost me my life and an eye.
Wanna share?
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 2:11 am
It is said that every beating makes one wiser and stronger.
From my one experience I would agree.
At least you know what your body and mind is capable of taking.
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 5:55 am
Jeez, that must have been some bar-argument Bobbie!
Bobbie I’m astounded at the statistical factors that must have contributed to your beating. Are you Russian Maori? Where you standing up for Russins Moari or both? Do you make it a general policy to avoid Russian-averse Maori-hating Aussies, (who reside in China) and were you just plain unlucky that day? or did it dawn on you later that Russian-averse Maori-hating Aussies (in China) come with particular predilictions that don’t work for you?
This is driving me nuts, I need context, you gotta help me here. . .
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 9:13 am
The facts in this case are still in dispute. It would be wise to wait until they are established..Why the great rush to judgement?
Vote:Many in CHCH would like to see the Moonbat dipensed with. This nutter has caused so much fear and anxiety in already frightened people. Is it true that he used to be a magician?
April 2nd, 2011 at 9:54 am
@Lee C, haha, I was just making the point that if you do suffer a nasty beating by a certain group then you tend to hold a grudge over a long period of time.
And it seemed Rex may have had a nasty one with the cops at some stage.
Anyway, it’s his business, he probably doesn’t want to share.
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 10:22 am
“Here’s a suggestion for you: When you’re stopped for no reason and imperiously interrogated (and you will be, if you’re out and about and not wearing expensive gear or a police uniform), try kneeing the the cop in the balls and then arguing about which one it was, and see whether that avoids a tazering”
I can see why the cops have given you a hard time before Rex . Why would I want to try to knee a cop in the balls? I know what the reaction would be and it would be the same reaction if I tried to knee any particular bloke in the balls…and Rex…one or two bad coppers doesn’t mean the whole trees rotten. Pity you can’t say the same about the crims and scum you so excitedly defend..
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 11:47 am
So Rex is resorting to citing some dodgy aussie cop in order to cast aspersions on our police? Weak Rex, very weak. What is wrong with you? You’re normally intelligent but when anyone mentions the police, it’s like a “brown mist” of bullshit descends upon you and all reason goes out the window for the sake of scoring points in your bizarre vendetta.
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 12:50 pm
rex – thats a fair assumption of me
BUT i grew up out west. being the metal guy i am, i had long hair, dressed like a westie etc till i was 22 (when i finished uni and had to get a job). when i was 19, my best buddy got done for murder. so its fair to say ive hung out with some pieces of shit. we had many encounters with the law. i cant remember one incident where we were unfairly harassed, abused, whatever.
cops used to break up our parties every other week. i think i got pushed once!? but they never did anything unwarranted.
ive hung out with all types of crims. personally i only got up to mischief. ive never been around cops doing anything bad. we are talking over a 5-6 year period too. i cant have just been lucky. i think if youre not a convicted criminal and youve been dealt with unfairly, youre just unlucky.
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 12:54 pm
Good on you, dime. I knew there had to be an explanation!
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 1:51 pm
starboard says:
Sorry if I confused things there. I wasn’t actually advocating attacking a police officer – nor have I ever laid a hand on one. I was merely suggesting seeing if they’d give you the same leeway for excuses when you attacked them as they seem to expect when they attack the public.
Try reading what I write occasionally. In the past I’ve said crims can be divided into the bad (deservedly in jail), the mad (ought to be locked in a secure mental facility but with proper treatment and betetr facilities) and the misguided / stupid / addicted… for whom there is almost always a better option than prison. So I readily admit a portion of crims are indeed very bad.
As for cops… again, try reading. Just above in this thread, for a start, where I’ve said my estimate of the “bad eggs” i(and that’s the thugs as well as the more devious (and more harmful) ones subject to “noble corruption”) would be about one in three.
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 1:59 pm
Put it away:
I simply don’t have time to collect data and enecdotal evidence on the NZ situation. The work I do for Civil Liberties here in Australia already takes me 30 hours a week, pro bono. Then there’s earning a living, eating, sleeping… and that’s pretty much it.
But these aren’t Libyans or Russians or people from vastly different nations with significantly different systems and cultures to NZ. They’re our nearest neighbours. You really think NZ is that different?
What’s “wrong” is that I have had – repeatedly, not just the most recent and most widely reported incidence – vastly different ecperiences with the NZ Police than most of you – who’ve had no experience at all beyond being pulled over for speeding, or had a noisy student party quietened down – have had. I accept my reality is not representative of every encounter between every citizen and every police officer… but it’s closer to the norm than the rose-tinted view of many here.
Bobbie Black: If you don’t know, I’m not going to bore everyone ehere with yet another retelling. Google is your friend. Though what you’re likely to find is one sixth of the lies, false arrests and bogus charges I’ve faced – and no mention at all of the petty harrassment – because much of it dates back to when the Internet wasn’t in common use and no one had a mobile, let alone one with a camera.
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 3:41 pm
No howls of complaint so far from the Darwinists
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 5:37 pm
Uncle wants to know why a Taser wasn’t deployed but, Tasers don’t have a big range, only up to 10m. Very hard to be close enough to use one when a shotgun is being brandished. The police I know would prefer to Taser someone than shoot them. While they usually joke about the paperwork, but they genuinely don’t ever want to be in the situation where they actually have to take someones life to protect their own or the communities.
If a softball bat or golf club were the weapons, it would be the more logical choice over a gun.
Vote:April 2nd, 2011 at 6:05 pm
Michael:
True enough, of the ones used by NZ Police, because they opt to use only the ones that need wires running back to the gun. There are, however, alternatives that can shoot 30m because they don’t need the wires… the charge is carried in the projectile.
Not that I’m advocating for tasers, but it seems off to me that if we’re going to use them supposedly to protect police officers, we’re not using the ones that can safely stop someone at the furthest possible distance.
Vote:April 4th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
If this guy is a victim and “he was such a nice boy” etc etc , how do you explain the fact that his pall bearers were all Mongrel Mob members? Victim my arse.
Vote:April 4th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Rex, you don’t take a taser to a gunfight, end of story. It’s simply not what they’re for.
Vote: