Jami-Lee’s maiden speech
April 7th, 2011 at 9:00 am by David FarrarNew Botany MP Jami-Lee Ross gave an excellent and principled maiden speech to the House yesterday. Some parts I especially liked:
I didn’t have an easy start to life. It is a common misconception that National MPs were all born with a silver spoon in their mouth. That certainly did not occur in my case. My mother was young when she had me, and my father was nothing more than a faceless name that never stepped up to life’s responsibilities. Having just finished raising three girls on her own, my grandmother decided that it was her job to give her young grandson the best up bringing she could possibly provide. She raised me in our small flat in South Auckland, where we lived from week to week as she looked after her own frail mother at the same time. But my grandmother is the reason I didn’t become a statistic. In the most public way I could possibly say this, thank you Nana for the love you showed me, and for giving me the best start to life that I could possibly have asked for. May every child born into difficult circumstances in this country, be as lucky as I have been.
A lovely tribute.
Mr Speaker, I am a staunch believer in limited government. I believe government’s intervention in the lives of New Zealanders must be minimal and only when necessary. I believe the state should provide help to those in need, but on the basis of need, not desire. I believe that government must protect the private and personal security of citizens from foreign or domestic attack. I believe the state should provide access to essential services, like health and education, when the private sector is unable to provide these services profitably. And above all else, we should instil in the nation a culture of personal responsibility and self-sufficiency.
Hear hear.
It has been my observation during my time as a city councillor that as politicians we have a natural tendency to want to legislate, a natural tendency to want to throw funding at an issue, or to regulate, often in a way that limits the freedoms of everyday New Zealanders. I submit to the House that in making decisions, the principles of freedom and liberty must be overriding considerations in everything we do. In my view, one of the greatest observations of the 20th century came from Ronald Reagan during his first inaugural address. Speaking about the problems of decades of bloated bureaucracy, the problems of an over-reaching state, and the economic ills of a government that thought it could spend its way out of many of the troubles it encountered, he commented that government is not the solution to the problem, government is the problem.
Freedom, liberty and a Reagan quote. It could only get better with a Thatcher quote.
Governments shouldn’t be judged solely on how many laws they pass that, rightly or wrongly, increase the size of the state or further restrict our freedoms. Governments should also be judged on how many unnecessary statues and regulations they remove, further reducing restrictions and compliance regimes, and ridding the country of the shackles of socialism that have been built up over many decades gone past.
Socialism is a failed experiment. The socialist doctrine seeks to close the gap between rich and poor, a reasonable goal. But rather than doing so by incentivising wealth creation, socialism seeks to redistribute the limited resources of wealth creators by using the coercive power of the state. If tax and spend was all we had to do to achieve what we wanted, then every nation on earth would be a glowing utopia of human desire. Clearly, that is not the case.
Jami-Lee is so right, that t is a failed experiment.
If I may paraphrase Baroness Thatcher, the problem with this approach and the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money to spend. The problem with trying to spend your way towards closing the gap between rich and poor is that eventually we all collectively become poorer.
Yes, a Thatcher quote also. Superb.
Mr Speaker, as a new Member of Parliament, I join the ranks of members, past and present, proud to call themselves Maori. But whilst I am an individual of Maori descent, I do consider myself a New Zealander first and foremost. I have Ngati Porou blood running through my veins, but I can assure the House that I am a New Zealander who believes strongly in one standard of citizenship. …
It also means that I do not subscribe to the view that I, or any New Zealander of Maori descent, requires special seats to be elected to Parliament, to Councils, or any other body in this country. It is my hope that the people of New Zealand will be the given the opportunity, in the near future, to examine the role of Maori seats in Parliament by way of referendum.
As I blogged yesterday, Parliament has 21 (arguably 23) MPs of Maori descent now. This is proof that you don’t need the Maori seats to have Maori representation in Parliament.
Mr Speaker, I enter this House with a strong set of beliefs and ideals. I am a centre-right fiscal conservative – someone who believes in individual freedom, equality and the maintenance of law and order. Undoubtedly some of those ideals will be moulded and tempered over time to align with what is achievable. But whilst politics may be the art of the possible, politics without principle is nothing more than a naked power grab.
I want my constituents to have the right to exercise their free will to make the most of the time they have on this earth. I want our nation to be proud. I want our nation to be prosperous. I want every child born in New Zealand to be able to access quality schools and universities. I want every adult to seek to be a productive member of society where they do not have to rely on the state to prop them up. I want our nation to be a centre of brilliance, where achievement is rewarded and innovation and excellence can thrive, where we value and protect our personal freedoms, and where we celebrate every day all that is great about our New Zealand.
Mr Speaker, I am honoured to have been elected to the 49th Parliament. I come here to be what James Dilworth called “a good and useful citizen”. I am honoured to have been elected to serve the people of Botany, as their Member of Parliament. And serve I shall.
National is strengthened with the addition of Jami-Lee to its caucus. He’s off to a very good start.
Related posts:
- Maiden Speech for Todd McClay
- Hekia Parata’s Maiden Speech
- Kelvin Davis Maiden Speech
- Brendan Horan maiden speech
April 7th, 2011 at 9:08 am
Excellent speech. Couldn’t help but think that here is a future prime minister ( with a similar upbringing to John Key)
Vote:Looking across the floor there is no one of this calibre in the Labour ranks.
April 7th, 2011 at 9:10 am
The Dom Post reports that after the speech Labour’s “Fist of Fury” Shane Jones called him a Tea Party, not a National Party member.
Jones has cemented his reputation as a recidivist wanker.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 9:16 am
A fine speech.
Vote:It is a shame we never hear any of these speeches on our shallow media.
We hear more about whack jobs like Charlie Sheen than our own leaders and representatives.
April 7th, 2011 at 9:18 am
Great start – let’s hope he can keep to his principles.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 9:23 am
A good speech with plenty of interesting comments. One I take issue with:
Socialism is a failed experiment.
As a total approach – yes. But some degree of socialism is essential in a decent society.
Totally free market capitalism also fails badly.
The aim should be the best balance of social and regulated capital policies.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 9:24 am
Fantastic speech, perhaps we could have him cloned enough times to form a parliamentry majority.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 9:26 am
After reading that I wish I lived in Botany so I could vote for him.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 9:35 am
Great speech. Let’s see how he survives the meat grinder that is parliament.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 9:45 am
If speeches achieved anything other than moving air around the streets of NZ would be paved with gold. I accept that our new MP has talent but give him a few years of bashing his head against the brick wall that is politics NZ & then judge whether he has leadership potential.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 9:51 am
I’m in his electorate,
Vote:I’d vote for him, once he gets rid of the Māori Seat I’m on.
Cos I’m not moving until that deed is done….
It is the domain of the Crown to correct wrongful Legislation,
not for constituents to manipulate in an unconstitutional manner, like Hone is attempting….
April 7th, 2011 at 9:57 am
Yes, an outstanding speech. Sadly it has been delivered by an outstanding young man who would have made an even better MP had he actually spent some time in the real world before he became a career trougher.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:00 am
I’m impressed. When’s the last time anybody said such things in Parliament? Jamie-Lee just went up 10 points in my book. I hope this speech will be quoted back at him when he waivers, as he inevitably will when virtually everyone around him disagrees with these fine principles. Good luck to him.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:02 am
Less government, less regulations, less state control, more individual and personal responsibility. All seems good to me.
Just in passing I am often amazed about how many rules and regulations there are in today’s society. In the old days we had a few big ones — such as the 10 Commandments. I reckon a few big rules is a lot better than multitudes of little ones. Don’t steal, don’t lie, don’t covet your neighbour’s property or his wife — these are the basis of a civilised society.
On the basis of his opening speech this fellow seems like a good addition to Parliament.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:03 am
I believe that government must protect the private and personal security of citizens from foreign or domestic attack.
…..
hear hear;
i see house prices rising in Auckland and demographics are one of the drivers. NZ used to be the “Quarter Acre Pavlova Paradise”. Now however we have companies like :
“A six-day showcase in Shanghai of more than $800 million worth of premier New Zealand property is generating “serious interest” from specially invited Chinese VIPs according to the organisers, Harcourts’ franchise Cooper & Co.
The successful North Shore-based company’s international marketing initiative is focused on presenting a collection of more than 50 residential, lifestyle, rural and commercial property and development projects from around New Zealand to Chinese millionaires and billionaires interested in investing and/or immigrating here.”
Perhaps Jamie identifies with a group rather than his Nationallity, expressed here by the Harcourts man:
“Chinese economy we all know about…
Chinese government says it’s time to grow offshore…..
Let’s take a good selection of New Zealands “products” over….
“We’re all New Zealanders, we all love the country so I think it’s healthy for us to have the debate and make the right decisions for our country…. but hey!…. young people coming through see it as “our planet” rather than “our country”
http://static.radionz.net.nz/assets/audio_item/0011/2385074/mnr-20100824-0842-More_than_800-million_dollars_worth_of_property_on_display-m048.asx
And BTW >> as we may know the Savings Working Group claim that:
Migration policy linked to inflated housing prices, Government spending and low savings
http://www.interest.co.nz/kiwisaver/52140/migration-policy-linked-inflated-housing-prices-government-spending-and-low-savings#comment-601682
The report added that there was little evidence that immigration boosted local incomes. In fact, the need to build roads and schools meant that net migration contributed to the national deficit.
One may also be interested to learn that:
Vote:IMF recommends to govt to broaden capital gains tax base and introduce a land tax.
http://www.interest.co.nz/news/52737/imf-recommends-govt-broaden-capital-gains-tax-base-and-introduce-land-tax-your-view
Cheers to the chaps who fund National.
April 7th, 2011 at 10:14 am
Here is a song for hj and all the Winston supporters.
Vote:
April 7th, 2011 at 10:15 am
Personal responsibility? Nice to hear someone mentioning the term in a New Zealand parliament.
Great speech.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:18 am
Fine speech, but he is in the wrong party.
Let me list:
1. Anti-smacking? Still there.
2. Middle-class welfare? Still there.
3. Government finances? Borrowing $300 million a week.
4. Tax cuts? We got none (remember they were supposedly budget NEUTRAL, everyone is still paying the same amount of tax).
5. Global warming scam? We got an ETS. At least the Aussies appear to mount some resistance. The National sheep just rolled over.
6. Law and order: what party introduced the three strikes bill? It wasn’t National.
7. Minimal government: what party wanted a regulatory responsibility bill? It wasn’t National and they watered it down enormously.
Can any list ANYTHING National has done that Labour couldn’t have done? Just ANYTHING!
National is leading this nation down the cliff.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:22 am
It has been my observation during my time as a city councillor that as politicians we have a natural tendency to want to legislate, a natural tendency to want to throw funding at an issue, or to regulate, often in a way that limits the freedoms of everyday New Zealanders. I submit to the House that in making decisions, the principles of freedom and liberty must be overriding considerations in everything we do.
Vote:…..
Yes yesterday I visited someone over behind AMI Stadium and I got to ponder that type of thing: you have free people making their decision$ laying the foundation for the modern slum. I recall Owen McShane talking about Huston, apparently if a tall building gets built close to an existing house that possibility is “discounted in the price” of the outlying houses…
April 7th, 2011 at 10:26 am
Out him on the front bench today. Get rid of about 8 others becsude we won’t need them and return to traditional National Party Mission Statement.
Oh its different now.
Vote:Well, best of luck with that.
April 7th, 2011 at 10:29 am
And this sums up the decline of kiwiblog quite nicely.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:31 am
A truly exceptional young man who touched so much in 15 minutes of what I want the National party and at present, Government, to hold dear.
Yes big bruv, his lack of an apprenticeship in what you and I would call the real world, is something I to, would worry about but this young man is something special, hence his meteoric rise to date. Yes it will be facinating to see his attempts in dealing with the suffocation that is the house of representatives but his initial portrayal would suggest he will handle it well.
Shane Jones’s response is the measure of himself and the sphincter tightening fear that another young maori achiever will instill as more of the aspirational young people in this country offer an understanding of the only way forward and it doesn’t include all that made his party of nobodies so reviled nearly three years ago, division, denigration, dislocation, denial and blatant pursuit of votes while taking those locked up on the far left for granted. I have just heard the maiden speach of a young man talking about unity, hope, self reliance, self worth understanding of the challenges we face and all in a commitment to all the citizens of this country.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:35 am
Here is a song for hj and all the Winston supporters.
……
Here’s one for you:
Mathew Hooten: “if that person can’t sell his property overseas he can’t get the best price”; Chris Trotter “people who sold out to foreigners used to be hung, drawn and quartered”
….
John Fisher is the chairman of the Ontario/Quebec chapter of Common Ground-USA. He winters on Andros Island, Bahamas. In January 2005, the following was sent to 26 Bahamian politicians, media people and concerned citizens. The cover letter quoted from the April 15, 1977 Miami Herald, “Bahamas Land Tax”: “Bahamian real estate, like that in the Caribbean and other resort areas, appreciated rapidly during the 1960′s fueled largely by speculative land buying in the outer islands.” Prime Minister Lynden Pindling had the foresight to state, “When we have put in the improvements in all these islands then some fellow who bought a lot for $3,000 comes back, sells it for $10,000.” Past Bahamian governments have recognized that social demands create value to a nation’s limited natural resources, which should be recovered for community purposes. Will Bahamian decision makers see the justice and the sustainable growth potential in shifting the revenue source for government from labour and business to the natural resource base?) Included in the packet was the list of 14 Green Economics Principles by Frank de Jong, leader of the Green Party of Ontario.
Vote:http://commonground-usa.net/fisher_0605.htm
April 7th, 2011 at 10:38 am
Shane Jones is arrogant, unpleasant and self-seeking. How can anyone see this sleazeball as a future leader?
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:42 am
Apparently those who don’t believe CO2 is a greenhouse gas are still gassing?
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:44 am
hj said “Here’s one for you”
I find the Monty Python one more catchy.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:47 am
How can anyone see this sleazeball as a future leader?
Vote:….
I quite like him. Admitting he watched porn just shows he’s a real person. On the foreshore and seabed he commented about “race relations going south”… shows he’s tapped into the real world, I think?
April 7th, 2011 at 10:55 am
Personal responsibility??
Does that extend to the heads of large failed companies? No of course not, that’s corporate responsibility, an entirely different proposition. They don’t need to be responsible at all, we have the state to bail out their irresponsibility, making us all personally responsible.
How does JLR reconcile his speech with his government bailing out insurance companies the very next day?
He’s in the wrong party, he’s an ACT candidate. BTW, what is ACT’s position on the AMI bailout? You live by the sword you die by the sword… unless you’re really fat and stupid?
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:57 am
This just in: the government is going to bailout AMI.
Time to impeach John Key.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 11:00 am
Luckily for us New Zealand environment and way of life is in good hands. The large foreign populations won’t dilute our environment:, to do so they would have to get past goal keeper Locke:
Anti-immigration feeling has no place in the Green party Immigration and Population policies released today, Green MP Keith Locke says.
we don’t start with an assumption that ‘Kiwi values’ are somehow superior to those of new migrants ……. [quite the opposite?]
“The Green Party policy is not based on prejudice, but an objective analysis of what level of migration is compatible with a sustainable New Zealand.
Vote:http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/greens-counter-peters-welcoming-immigration-policy
April 7th, 2011 at 11:04 am
all good and well to claim to be an enemy of socialism, but will he put his views into practise?
Or will he sit at the back of the caucus room and nod like a good poodle while he collects his salary and perks (far more than he would be worth in the private sector btw).
I won’t hold my breath.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 11:10 am
Oh yay, so we have a young career politician in parliament. What’s this guy ever done other than chasing seats in the local body elections?
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 11:11 am
decanker
JLR is far to the right of ACT.
I suggest that JLR, having made his storming maiden address, as so many have before him, now takes Holyoake’s (heard of him, JLR?) advice and breathe through his nose for the next (in his case) 20 odd years.
He may have grown up by then.
And it’s OK, DPF will have found someone new to
Vote:slobberfawn over by thenApril 7th, 2011 at 11:12 am
Big Bruv says
Yes, an outstanding speech. Sadly it has been delivered by an outstanding young man who would have made an even better MP had he actually spent some time in the real world before he became a career trougher”
Couldn’t agree more, yet another MP with bugger all commercial or life experience to draw upon. Nice speach, now needs to get out and learn a bit about what is going on ion NZ before he gets swallowed up by the pit he has just entered.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 11:21 am
Ive been bagging this dude from day one. Like bruv, i get the shits with career politicians that have no life experience.
in saying that, loved the speech (the bits ive read anyway).
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 11:51 am
I heard the speech and was very impressed.
Vote:However I have a couple of questions to ask.
First. How old is Mr Ross and what is his life history ?(Other than be born into a very precarious family situation)
Second. Has he ever had a productive job other than being an Auckland City Councillor ?
We have had people like that in the past entering the doors of Parliament. Been in the public trough all their life.Nick Smith,Judith Tizard,Darren Hughes,Jacinda Ardern,Marilyn Waring,Darien Fenton…
What experience do they bring to the parliament. In contrast look at the contribution Steven Joyce is making after his stint as an entrepeneur.
April 7th, 2011 at 11:52 am
A perceptive comment from Berend. Actually, Jami-Lee Ross could be expelled any minute from Labour lite for expressing an opinion completely at odds with today’s party line.
The current National Party abandoned its founding conservative principles years ago, so Ross will find himself in a minority.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 11:57 am
‘that government is not the solution to the problem, government is the problem.’
All a bit bloody ironic considering his National party have just bailed out AMI after coming up with more cash to bail out SCF.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
Farrar announces the death of socialism on the same day as the party of the free market say that they may have to bail-out another finance sector company. That’s hardly a ringing endorsement of capitalism.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 12:07 pm
According to his bio the dopey little fuck left school with no qualifications, he’s been at University, but again, nothing to show for it and the only thing that he’s done that looks even remotely like a real job was as a toe licker come bum boy for Williamson.
Vote:He’s just what the country needs, another bludger who’s been on the public tit since he was 18 .
April 7th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Well – it all sounds good – but Ill bet my left ball that he will do nothing to uphold all the good ideas hes raised in his speach. Within days he will be voting for new rules that are in direct contradiction of whats hes just said.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Great, another reaganite douchebag with little regard for empirical evidence. just what this country needs. Sounds like he wrote his speech from Glenn Beck clips.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
Just another “I’ve made it, quick, pull up the ladder!”
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
Just another “quick, kick him down before he’s gotten up there”.
An awful lot of pre-judgements and the poor bugger has hardly discovered where his seat is yet. No point in giving him a chance to prove himself though, might as well stick the boot in quickly.
What a negative pack of prats, makes the opposition look uplifting.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
Sounds like Sarah Palin.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Isn’t it interesting how the left really brings out the hatred for someone who succeeds from a poor background. Maggie, your comment says a lot more about you than you would like, only nobody would “pull up the ladder” from where you’ve obviously got to.
For all those bagging the government or capitalism about AMI, it would be well to recall that AMI is a Mutual, that is it owned by its policy holders and is very similar to a co-op. That is one of its prime problems, as a coop it has far more limited access to capital. Just think, if it was overseas owned it would have a parent with deep pockets to potentially support it, but as a mutual if it goes down the only losers will be everyone in NZ with AMI Insurance policies (and that includes me) plus the staff. I understand (though this may be out of date and wrong) that AMI can pay what it owes vis-a-vis Christchurch but as a result fails to have adequate capital for any further contingencies under various regulations. I wouldn’t myself classify AMI as anything like the other “finance company” trainwrecks like SCF etc. It was arelatively sound, prudent business that is too small and localized to survive a major disaster like the Christchurch earthquakes. Apparently it has around 33% of insurance cover in Christchurch, which is a lot.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
Ha ha…he does sound like Palin indeed.
On that subject…..who else noticed that Fox have canned he Glen Beck show, apparently even Fox viewers have decided that Beck is bat shit crazy.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
Look guys, he has Pete’s endorsement, he will surely have a bright future!
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
I believe government’s intervention in the lives of New Zealanders must be minimal and only when necessary.
I believe government’s intervention in the lives of New Zealanders must be minimal and only when
necessaryI need a job.Fuck off PG, he’s another long time and experienced trough snuffling wet behind the ears prat who’s never had a real job spouting ideological claptrap that’s been spoon fed to him.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
He doesn’t have my endorsement, but he deserves a fair go. Or is a fair go just a bullshit bit of kiwi folklore?
Cha, I’m surprised you didn’t get the seat. You sound like you’d be so much better than him. What happened?
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
‘Just think, if it was overseas owned it would have a parent with deep pockets to potentially support it’
What like Pike River Coal?
I’m not complaining about the government bailing out AMI, I’m just pointing out how totally naive Jamie-Lee Ross’s ‘ideals’ seem given the recent actions of the party he has just been elected to represent.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 2:00 pm
somewhatthoughtful,
“Sounds like he wrote his speech from Glenn Beck clips.”
So perhaps if he had paraphrased someone else you would have rated it a better speech… Such as: “I won. You lost. Eat that!”
Yes, inspirational words indeed from one of New Zealand’s ‘great’ leaders…
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 2:34 pm
i liked this speech.
a very smart speech and one in which i personally found nothing to disagree with.
It was a speech that can give one hope.
It occurred to me that a parrallel could be drawn between Jamie lee and Darren in that
Vote:for whatever reason they both became politically/socially aware early and both made it a career
choice.
i’m way closer to the ideals and values expressed in JL’S speech than those of Darren
i hope Jamie-lee’s career doesnt end up in a train wreck like Darrens
April 7th, 2011 at 2:58 pm
“Socialism is a failed experiment” – right, now tell me again how successful ultra capitalism has been? At least socialism failed in an attempt (misguided or not) to do good. The Gordon Gecko model is a major fail, and failing more with each passing day.
How long they can keep taking money from Joe public to line their mates pockets will be interesting to see.
We have a monetary system that is nothing more than a Ponzi scheme and our Government borrows from it. We have moronic (or corrupt, not quite sure which yet) politicians who religiously repeat the “too big to fail” garbage when it comes to any organisation that is financial. If it was a factory it would be allowed to close down as a failed business. What is it with these double standards?
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 2:59 pm
I liked it too.
Yes he is young and probably lacking in some life skills, and yes I am biased because he said what I want to hear from the Nats.
Vote:I don’t know what his background is, other than what he told us in his speech.
He admits that he will probably get a collar yank in the near future, and I am sure he will.
I would stack him up against the young labour troughers anyday.
I for one am prepared to sit, wait & watch to see if he lives up to expectations. I bloody well hpe he does, and some of his words and actions rub off on the Nats, and they actually return to principled politics based on their actual beliefs.
April 7th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
No one sounds like Sarah Palin. No one without a lobotomy, anyway.
But while he may not sound like Sarah Plain, he sure as hell looks like Clayton Cosgrove’s love child
Of course he likes Reagan… Reagan was master of “smile and wave”, even going so far as pretending to be deaf so he didn’t have to answer the questions of reporters (who were, of course, corralled out of range of carefully controlled TV images). No doubt he and Key will spend many a happy hour reviewing the tapes… “Look how he avoided questions on Ollie North by saying ‘I can’t hear you’. Brilliant!…”
Someone (I think it may have been big bruv) suggested here a while back that a certain amount of life experience be a prerequisite for election. I tend to agree. If someone’s going to tell me how to live my life, I’d prefer he at least have lived a little of his own first.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
Ed Snack (381) Says:
April 7th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Isn’t it interesting how the left really brings out the hatred for someone who succeeds from a poor background. Maggie, your comment says a lot more about you than you would like, only nobody would “pull up the ladder” from where you’ve obviously got to.
Ed is my description of this character wrong? Why do you think I hate him?
Where have I obviously got to? How do you know? You don’t know me……
Your ability to jump to conclusions says a lot more about you than you would like, Ed.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
In related news: “National-led Government owns a rail company, a finance company, and about to pick up an insurance company. We’re all socialists now.”
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
just watched the clip
if this dude wants to be prime minister one day – start speech therapy now
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
but he deserves a fair go. Or is a fair go just a bullshit bit of kiwi folklore
I’m unable to find anything that shows the wannabe as anything other than a professional trougher PG.
How bright is he, who fucking knows because he’s never passed an exam that I’m aware of.
I’ve no idea how hard can he work because he’s never delivered a result that I’m aware of.
All I know about him is that he’s good at slippering his way through party selection processes, that he’s sat on a committee or three, that he’s been elected to a safe seat, that he can flap his gums and parrot shit and he’s shown that he’s quite good at putting his hand out for ratepayers and now taxpayers money.
WTF would I give him a fair go, so he can collect $160k p/a and play ideologies with real people this time. I don’t fucking think so.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
Kaya, something all the lefties ALWAYS seem to forget, Gordon Gecko was a character in a film, made by someone who doesn’t like capitalism (while simultaneously making a good deal of money by being a capitalist). So I don’t think GG really works as a poster boy for the failings of capitalism. Oh, and by the way, “Greed is Good” was a line in a film, deal with it.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
Maggie, from your comments we know you. Your primary traits, at least in your comments, appear to be hatred and envy in equal amounts.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
Gordon Gecko was a character in a film:
Dolf DeRoos and Phil Jones aren’t:
“You can buy one property, get it revalued, use the equity to buy another property and then buy another and another. “And you do it all with OPM. Other people’s money. OPM. It’s like being high on drugs!” What’s more, the wonder of depreciation claims on the building and contents means “the government subsidises your investment! It’s delightful!””
http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/3314/features/1021/house_of_the_rising_sum,3.html;jsessionid=805A4743AEF994258BB2500CD0ECBBE5
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
Ed Snack (383) Says:
April 7th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
Maggie, from your comments we know you. Your primary traits, at least in your comments, appear to be hatred and envy in equal amounts.
And I know you, Ed. Just another rightwing reactionary salivating on command. Clearly logic isn’t your suit. Have a nice day.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Capitalism has never worked anywhere in the world. The only true capitalist state was Victorian England. Wonderful examples of capitalism in action include workhouses, poorhouses and children pushed up chimneys.
Capitalism is a failure. So is socialism. The answer lies somewhere in between.
Deal with it, Ed.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
Capitalism is a failure. So is socialism. The answer lies somewhere in between.
I agree with that. A problem we have trying to get the best balance is a right inclined government is in an ideological straightjacket trying to always move towards capitalism, a left inclined government is in an ideological straightjacket trying to always move towards socialism, and we get stuck with entrenched policies that drag us down.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 5:46 pm
Yawn, maggie and pete, get a room, so predictable.
Do you ever get splinters from all your inane fence-sitting?
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
“Totally free market capitalism also fails badly.”
How could we possibly know that, it’s never been tried.
Peaceful cooperation for mutual benefit? It’ll end in tears.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
Never seen Maggie sitting on the fence.
Of course the answer is somewhere in the middle. But Maggie’s view of the middle is 98% of the way to socialism – witness the “pull the ladder up” response to Jami-Lee’s speech. Pete is somewhere in the middle though.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
Are there any centrists left in National? Or did they all go the same way as Katherine Rich? Even the IMF is now admitting that the unbridled market is no longer appropriate. We have begun an age of scarcity in several essential resources, will mean a much more noticeable difference between the haves and the have nots. That will mean real class-tension, and not a sustainable society (as the Roman senate found out too late). Like it or not, the state is going to play a much larger role in the economy over the next few decades.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 6:41 pm
I dunno magic bullet. Sounds pretty centre to me. I heard that the government should help where there is a demonstrated need, and otherwise should butt out. What’s right wing about that? Given the general incompetence of government at most things, I would have thought it was self evident that you wouldn’t involve them in something unless you absolutely had to.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
Either Freudian slip or too much wishful thinking on your part. The smaller the state, the better we are.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 6:51 pm
Yes, but who defines “need”? National, in 1990′s mother of all budgets, stated that beneficiaries should not hve enough diet to even come close to eating a nutritionally adequate diet. Apparently, they don’t “need” a nutritionally adequate diet. Dangerous ground isn’t it?
Also, small government is right wing by definition. Your Orwellian language, notwithstanding.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 6:53 pm
bullet
“Are there any centrists left in National?”
Is that a serious question?
A quick check of the National MP’s would show that roughly 80% of them are screaming pinko’s who have no idea what the National party is supposed to stand for.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 6:56 pm
This youngster should get a real job for the next 15 years, lose the plug job and come back, or not, when he is mature.
Vote:At this stage, I just want to make him eat his veges, use the right spoon and wash behind his ears. Nice boy, but ….
April 7th, 2011 at 7:04 pm
magic bullet: small is a comparative term. Small compared to what. Is smaller government (i.e. any move that reduces the size of government) inherently a right wing thing? Is it a basic tenet of the left that no function that govt currently does ever be removed from government?
I’m pretty sure that National, in the 1990′s budget, didn’t state that beneficiaries shouldn’t have a nutritionally adequate diet. But I should imagine that it depends on which nutritionist you listen to, what assumptions you make about what else beneficiaries spend their money on, and what supplementary assistance a beneficiary receives. If I recall correctly, those benefit reductions were never reversed, so does that mean that Labour governed for 9 years with beneficiaries receiving an inadequate diet, and never did anything about it?
So, leaving aside your use of language (should I call it Orwellian – I think that term was originally applied to the left?), I’ll agree that need for government involvement is subjective. I think that the government shouldn’t be involved in an area unless:
– there is a clear problem that needs solving, and someone can articulate that problem and what it would look like if solved
– there is a solution that involves government that has some realistic prospect of solving the problem (or going some way towards solving it) and that doesn’t create new problems that are just as big or larger
– that there is a cost benefit analysis that says this is a good spend of taxpayer dollars – that the benefit of this initiative outweighs the costs to society.
To give you my favourite example, someone decided to outlaw unpasteurised orange juice, unless squeezed and sold on the premises. So, my question is what problem we were solving with this regulation. My filter would say:
– nobody ever died from unpasteurised orange juice – at least that I’ve heard of. I find it hard to believe anyone got significantly sick – at least not as much as from eating seafood (evil stuff that)
– outlawing it doesn’t really solve the problem, and to my mind just means that I have to have crappy mass produced orange juice, or live with juice that is ground up oranges rather than squeezed (grinding machines are cheap enough to use in a cafe, squeezing machines aren’t)
– net benefit to society – zero.
In short, why is the government intervening in this area? What are they achieving? And is it right wing of me to say that I’d rather they didn’t? Or does it just show that I like fresh squeezed orange juice?
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 7:17 pm
“We have begun an age of scarcity in several essential resources”
Every age has been one of scarcity. There are no natural resources beyond a few wild berries.
“Like it or not, the state is going to play a much larger role in the economy over the next few decades.”
Price signals are the absolute bedrock for efficient allocation of scarce resources. This is why Communist economies were so grossly inefficient and wasteful of resources. If you are worried about increased scarcity of resources you shold be lobbying strongly for a freer market.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 7:17 pm
PaulL,
Thank you for that. Can I please just point out to you the three fundamental and irredeemable problems with your argument:
1. It is clear
Vote:2. It is rational
3. It makes sense
April 7th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
One of the biggest problems with government involvement is not the initial involvement, often there will be at least semi-justifiable reasons for it. It is the locking in of involvement, or the lack of balls in deciding that involvement is no longer needed or needed less so should be cut or reduced. So what we get is involvement piled on involvement piled on involvement.
Some from the Labour side have said we should be adding to the public service in tough times to boost the economy. That could have some merit, except that after a decade of growing it significantly you end up piling on and never taking off. That’s nuts.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 8:02 pm
Wat Dabney –
That might be true in the text book – or if people had to take possesion of what they buy. Not true in the unregulated mess that is “the market” today. When someone can sit in an office and speculate on the price of cocoa beans grown on another continent without even knowing what one looks like. Drive up the price of essential commodities, food, water.
Or like the banner ad at the top of this page, CFDs, contracts for difference. Not even a pretence of buying something and trying to onsell for profit, never mind adding any value. The future’s so bright I have to wear shades.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 8:12 pm
Ed Snack – I used Gordon Gecko to try and keep it simple for you. OK how about Govenment Sachs? Are they a glittering example of the free market? They certainly seem to make great profits?
There’s a bit more to it than that. Have a read of 13 Bankers.
And the rest of the world.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 8:16 pm
kaya: all commodities are eventually delivered to someone. And at that point, the someone pays a market price for that commodity. Everything in between is betting on whether the price in 6 months time is higher or lower than it is today. It doesn’t affect the end product that is paid.
In short, if I was speculating on cocoa beans, and I bet that the price in 6 months will be 3 times what it is today, that won’t change what the price is in 6 months. In 6 months I either need to sell the cocoa beans to someone at that price, sell at a lower price (losing money), or stock pile them somewhere. Most studies show that speculation makes no difference to the end price, adds significant liquidity to the market (a good thing), and allows some people to make or lose a fortune along the way (maybe a good thing, maybe not).
For some light amusement, try this: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Special-Delivery.aspx
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
PaulL – I hear what you’re saying, I just don’t see how it doesn’t affect the price of the end product. It’s causing instability around the world, food riots. It can’t be good for us.
Vote:As for losing fortunes, a lot of people should have lost fortunes gambling the markets in the GFC but didn’t. Then there is SCF and now AMI here in NZ. The rules aren’t working the way they are meant to.
April 7th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
PaulL – I liked the link though!!
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 9:01 pm
If you haven’t watche this before it’s worth a look. An Irishman’s opinion on why the Celtic Tiger failed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu3IT1kGavE
Funny.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
Mr Speaker, I am a staunch believer in limited government. I believe government’s intervention in the lives of New Zealanders must be minimal and only when necessary. I believe the state should provide help to those in need, but on the basis of need, not desire. I believe that government must protect the private and personal security of citizens from foreign or domestic attack. I believe the state should provide access to essential services, like health and education, when the private sector is unable to provide these services profitably. And above all else, we should instil in the nation a culture of personal responsibility and self-sufficiency.
Sadly he ties himself in contradictions that make his speech worthless.A government cannot tax and help the needy while also protecting the rights of its citizens which includes not being violated by that same taxation….total clash. For the state to provide access to “essential” services it has to rob and threaten those who want no part of them….sorry Mr Ross but you fail and are just another confused sudo-socialist who needs an education on politics,morals and individual rights very badly….no matter how often you quote Reagan or Thatcher.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 9:10 pm
Pete George: A good speech with plenty of interesting comments. One I take issue with:
Socialism is a failed experiment.
As a total approach – yes. But some degree of socialism is essential in a decent society.
Totally free market capitalism also fails badly.
The aim should be the best balance of social and regulated capital policies.etc.
Bullshit….real free market Capitalism has nothing to gain from any accommodation from the evil destructive rot that is socialism.Socialism is a criminal system…it violates the rights of people just as a criminal does when he robs,rapes of kills you.Decent and peaceful people have no need of that in any form.The free market is the tide that lifts all boats….but it insists you make an effort to maintain your boat in a seaworthy condition first…
“In any compromise between Good and Evil it is only evil that gains and prospers” Ayn Rand.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
James – the problem with real free market capitalism is that it is similar to socialism. Great in the textbook but the reality doesn’t work. People get in the way of a good idea and fuck it up.
Without regulation we have watched the excesses of the free market bring the planet to the brink of financial Armageddon. As the free market now runs the US government we can expect to see little change in that behaviour which means we are all facing a pile of steaming dog turds in the near future.
Government Sachs is now buying up large in Australasia with the fantasy money they’ve been printing the last few years.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10717756
The cancer keeps spreading.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 9:58 pm
People get in the way of a good idea and fuck it up.
Human greed, laziness and power craziness corrupt both capitalism and socialism.
The US is another example of the better a country gets the worse it gets.The great Beacon is crumbling under the weight of things like lobbyitis, bonusitis, consumeritis. POTUS is hopeless, can’t do bugger all about it. $1b for a campaign, that’s some serious buying off. Not looking good for their future, and it’s just a matter of how much they drag who down with them.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:10 pm
Pete George – the $1billion won’t be too hard to come by. Wall Street will flick a few campaign bonuses Obama’s way, in exchange for maintaining the status quo a la lack of regulation. Government Sachs will sort it.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:35 pm
James (1,082) Says:
April 7th, 2011 at 9:10 pm
Pete George: A good speech with plenty of interesting comments. One I take issue with:
Socialism is a failed experiment.
As a total approach – yes. But some degree of socialism is essential in a decent society.
Totally free market capitalism also fails badly.
The aim should be the best balance of social and regulated capital policies.etc.
Bullshit….real free market Capitalism has nothing to gain from any accommodation from the evil destructive rot that is socialism.Socialism is a criminal system…it violates the rights of people just as a criminal does when he robs,rapes of kills you.Decent and peaceful people have no need of that in any form.The free market is the tide that lifts all boats….but it insists you make an effort to maintain your boat in a seaworthy condition first…
“In any compromise between Good and Evil it is only evil that gains and prospers” Ayn Rand.
OMG its a libertarian, with cliches. Quick, nurse the screens the screens!
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:35 pm
The US is another example of the better a country gets the worse it gets.
They started losing ground after Reagan who was the last of the generation of heroes from WWII. Ever since he left, they’ve been heading downhill morally and materially. The excesses of the late 80′s were never cleaned up, you saw plain downright evil in the way they played international politics with Iran-Contra and everything else since, you saw naked corruption and greed starting the Savings and Loan collapse which has continued ever since.
I have always been a great admirer of Americans and America and remain so, however their people have let themselves get into this situation, by electing people like Bush, Clinton and Obama instead of people like Ron Paul. It’s like they’ve never understood what their corrupt morally bankrupt leadership has been leading them into, even as they kept electing them at every level, more and more, for decade after decade.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:36 pm
Someone clueless said … James – the problem with real free market capitalism is that it is similar to socialism.
No it isn’t…its the polar reverse.You clearly have no idea what Capitalism actually is if you can say that.Capitalism upholds individual rights,property rights,the rule of objective law and consensual interaction with limited,rights protecting Government…socialism is the exact reverse.
Great in the textbook but the reality doesn’t work. People get in the way of a good idea and fuck it up.
It works just fine when allowed to which is when the pollies get out of the way….THEY are the people who fuck it up.The free market IS people…its you and me and everyone else interacting and trading by consent for own own self-interested gain…..and guess what? ,you engaged in at least one free market transaction today being it buying something from someone else, going to a job,going on a date with someone you like or hanging out with some friends at the pub…all free market transactions you and everyone else engage in everyday….and not a politician required to make any of it happen.People can make poor choices in the market sure but the market is just the system that allows you to do so…or not…its neutral. The market runs on the law of cause and effect and disperses rewards and penalties as deserved because its underlying principle is justice.
Without regulation we have watched the excesses of the free market bring the planet to the brink of financial Armageddon. As the free market now runs the US government we can expect to see little change in that behaviour which means we are all facing a pile of steaming dog turds in the near future.
You have it totally arse backwards…its regulating,big taxing and even bigger money printing Government that’s caused this current crisis…like it caused all others before it.In a Free market the Government stays out of the economy….that means NO taxation,NO communist commissions,no Fannie Maes and Freddie Macs etc etc…get it? There is nothing in a free market that can cause the boom and bust cycle ….only in a government regulated one where they fuck about printing money and giving it out with no solid backing by gold or goods….understand now? In fact a free market is “regulated ‘ to a far higher and more efficient degree by the feedback loops of the people within it having choice and deciding between alternatives.
Government Sachs is now buying up large in Australasia with the fantasy money they’ve been printing the last few years.
An action that can ONLY happen in a Government controlled economy…impossible in a free market..thanks for proving my point.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:37 pm
”The free market is the tide that lifts all boats” is this character for real?
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:42 pm
Libertarianism is the ultimate in selfishness and greed.
It is the ”fuck you Jack I’m all right” ideology of the morally bankrupt.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:47 pm
PaulL (3,933) Says:
April 7th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
Never seen Maggie sitting on the fence.
Of course the answer is somewhere in the middle. But Maggie’s view of the middle is 98% of the way to socialism – witness the “pull the ladder up” response to Jami-Lee’s speech. Pete is somewhere in the middle though.
Not so, Paul. I would put myself about 60/40. The “‘pull the ladder up” is perfectly accurate. Having had all the benefits of the State Jami-Lee wants to take them away from everybody else. Just like John Key.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:52 pm
Funny…”Pulling the ladder up” is exactly what your favoured minimum wage laws do to the employment prospects of the most poor and desperate in NZ Maggie.
You clueless douche….
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 10:56 pm
Libertarianism is the ultimate in selfishness and greed.
What’s wrong with that? Define your terms noddy….
It is the ”fuck you Jack I’m all right” ideology of the morally bankrupt.
In fact its the ONLY moral political position one can hold to.It asks only that you leave others alone and respect their rights and not violate them and for them to do the same in return…what possible objection could a half decent human being have to that…?
Oh wait…look who I’m responding to…
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 11:05 pm
Having had all the benefits of the State Jami-Lee wants to take them away from everybody else. Just like John Key.
Maggie as usual hears things that weren’t said and won’t happen. If you really think that then it means you do think its healthy to have this level of govt in society in fact you seem to think it would be a very good thing were it even bigger.
Now Maggie this is mental. It’s fucking nuts. Don’t you know anything?
Point to an economy that has the rising welfare indicators we have been having for fucking ages now which is healthy. See, the Nordic nations that Liarbore loves to point to have successful economies because they fucking work. Duh. How many lazy fucking Swedes sit around all day and do P and smoke dope. How many Norwegians leave skool at 15 to “hang out with my mates?” How many Finns have so many kids they can’t afford to pay for them all themselves, and need the state to pay for them instead?
Conservative economics Maggie focuses on the respect and dignity a human deserves. We don’t believe a human should be treated as if they are incapable of nothing but receiving a handout. Unfortunately thanks to fucking mental hand-wringers over many generations we are now seeing 3rd and 4th generation dole bludgers who’ve never worked, who have kids young, that they can’t pay for, cause they don’t fucking work, they never had, nor does or ever did, mum or dad, nor did grandad and grandma on both sides. We don’t believe that’s a dignified life. Unfortunately, Liarbore never addressed that, not once. Instead Liarbore did everything it could to encourage it, so this appalling behaviour and attitude of entitlement spread even more into the poorest of the poor, the very heart of Liarbore’s base.
What sort of people are you Maggie, when you do that, to the very people for whom you proclaim to care most for?
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 11:23 pm
You have it totally arse backwards…its regulating,big taxing and even bigger money printing Government that’s caused this current crisis…like it caused all others before it.In a Free market the Government stays out of the economy….that means NO taxation,NO communist commissions,no Fannie Maes and Freddie Macs etc etc…get it? There is nothing in a free market that can cause the boom and bust cycle ….only in a government regulated one where they fuck about printing money and giving it out with no solid backing by gold or goods….understand now? In fact a free market is “regulated ‘ to a far higher and more efficient degree by the feedback loops of the people within it having choice and deciding between alternatives.
James do you really think that?
In the wider sense the fundamental problem all economies have is fractional reserve banking. That’s poison. Lack of adequate regulation accompanied by political manipulation by big business interests comes a fairly distant but nevertheless solid second.
See, explain the coincidence between the fact Obama’s got more Wall-streeters in his Administration than any other President in history, and the bailouts, and the QEII.
Also, the reason why the GFC happened in the first place was because Bush put the kibosh on regulation that would have cut the derivative speculation. It’s an interesting story as to how he did that, you should look it up.
You see the fact is, a market isn’t good for everything, and when it is good for something, it needs guidance and throttle control just like every other dynamic engine. You can’t just let it operate with no governing principles, otherwise you’d get a GFC every five years or so. You would.
IMO James, the speculation that drives futures and derivatives is a drain on the necessary transactions required to facilitate world commerce. What precisely does it achieve apart from making several million people in the world exceedingly rich. What else, besides that, does it achieve. Now if we whacked a tobin tax onto every single country in the entire world, that would kill that trade, and why would that be a bad thing? I just wanted to give you an example of where taxes could be useful.
Just as it’s socialist utopia to imagine the state should provide everything including your job and your house, there is also a free-market-fanatical equivalent which ends up in the financial wild west. Neither approach will work, one is too much control, the other is not enough.
Vote:April 7th, 2011 at 11:42 pm
Reid….I shake my head at you…you usual are better than this.
No market is unregulated..its just who’s doing the regulating…the fumble fingered state or the participants themselves.No one with any honesty can blame an unregulated free market for the financial crisis….the basic reason being there was no Free market in existence… nor has there been in the US for over a hundred years……and not here ever……the closest time being in the 19th century.Pointing a gun against someone’s head to make them comply with your wishes…which is what state regulation actually is,is immoral and, thanks to the law of non-contradiction also not practical….as history repeatedly shows.
See, explain the coincidence between the fact Obama’s got more Wall-streeters in his Administration than any other President in history, and the bailouts, and the QEII.
Its obvious…..big business loves state regulation that empowers it and protects it from market scrutiny and competition….its the reason Douglas wasn’t allowed near the cabinet table by Key…his big business backers regard Douglas and his campaign against privilege as a threat to their t roughing and monopoly, state protected status.A free market renders that situation impossible.
Vote:April 8th, 2011 at 2:32 am
James (1,086) Says:
April 7th, 2011 at 10:52 pm
Funny…”Pulling the ladder up” is exactly what your favoured minimum wage laws do to the employment prospects of the most poor and desperate in NZ Maggie.
You clueless douche….
Of course the minimum wage does nothing of the sort. The last Labour government consistently increased the mw yet had the lowest unemployment rate in the OECD. Explain THAT away, Jimmy boy.
As for the rest of your post only people without effective aqrgument resort to pathetic, childish naecalling, James.
Vote:April 8th, 2011 at 2:38 am
reid, as ever, accuses me of making assumptions, then makes them himself. Consistency was never his strong suit.
As usual his contribution is just another cliche-ridden rant full of obscenities.
My experience, James, is that markets left to regulate themselves don’t do it very well. It is the habit of the market, when faced with regulation, to suddenly suggest some type of voluntary code. Which begs the question as to why it wasn’t done in the first place.
Markets left to self regulate will regulate to their own benefit.
James (1,086) Says:
April 7th, 2011 at 11:42 pm
Reid….I shake my head at you…you usual are better than this.
Oh, no, he isn’t. reid is habitually obscene, unpleasant and totally devoid of any redeeming features.
Vote:April 8th, 2011 at 2:54 am
Of course the minimum wage does nothing of the sort. The last Labour government consistently increased the mw yet had the lowest unemployment rate in the OECD. Explain THAT away, Jimmy boy.
Easy…they hid a lot in a bloated public service and moved others onto other benefits…old trick.And abolishing youth rates really helped them youngsters into jobs huh genius?
Try again comrade idiot.
Vote:April 8th, 2011 at 2:56 am
Markets left to self regulate will regulate to their own benefit.
Duh! The market is PEOPLE…us in otherwords…of course people will try and better themselves and their circumstances….that’s the point of living.The most effective regulating mechanism known to economics is free people.
God you are a dropkick….its like picking on a crippled kid debating with you.
Vote:April 8th, 2011 at 4:08 am
Right on Cha. Ross’s rhetoric would be a more convincing if he had a single dollar to his name that he hadn’t sucked out of a ratepayer or taxpayer’s wallet. He must be pretty naive not to be embarrassed by this screaming irony.
Vote:April 8th, 2011 at 6:00 am
It’s interesting that Penny Bright hasn’t commented on this thread. You’d have thought that a good sport like Our Pen would have wanted to offer her congratulations to the young man whom she ran so close in the race for the Botany seat
Vote:April 8th, 2011 at 8:03 am
A problem with the unbridled market is, that is almost never acknowledged by its proponents, is that it involves non-linear feed-back loops. Money begets money. This means that you end up with the ridiculous scenarios, where people in the top 2% of wealth holders, can earn a years’ full time minimum wage work, whilst sipping cocktails on a beach in Samoa, occasionally checking in with the stock broker to see how dad’s wealth is going. This situation will eventually end up with a culture of “the entitled rich”. An arrogant breed of people, that has been detached from the concerns of the masses for several generations. In fact, they will struggle to tell you what’s of concern to middle-class families without a crosby-textor focus group. Ignorance leads to a lack of concern, and worse, prejudice. This was a factor in the downfall of the Roman empire. The poor were so alienated and disrespected by the wealthy, that many of them aided invading armies.
The unbridled market does not result in a stable or sustainable society. If unmitigated, it will lead to an escalating action-reaction cycle, that will necessitate the growth of blunt-instrument force in society. i.e. police, prisons and domestic security forces. So the horrible irony of it all, is that in seeking freedom, the market liberal wishes upon us, a more authoritarian society. This is a fundamental flaw in neoliberal theory – it doesn’t incorporate non-linear feedback loops. Because of this, it is not viable as a real-life model – although it is a useful heuristic device.
Vote:April 8th, 2011 at 8:32 am
James, repeat after me:
”Abusing people is not debating”
So far you have called me a clueless douche, noddy (twice), a dropkick, idiot. Why do you feel compelled to do that, James? What do you think your constant abuse says about you?
I see you apparently enjoy picking on crippled kids. That comes as no surprise.
Vote:April 8th, 2011 at 9:07 am
For reid and others, an inconvenient truth about Ronald Reagan:
At the time he (or should that be “He”) took office the US was the world’s greatest ever creditor nation. Eight years later it was the world’s greatest ever debtor nation. Tell me again what made Ronnie great.
Oh, and Clinton came along and restored the natural order, then yet another Republican succeeded him and repeated the feat of his aforementioned idol.
Tell me again, what made Ronnie great?
It certainly was not his maths!
Vote:April 8th, 2011 at 9:14 am
James – You should try and relax a bit and try debating without ad hominems. They make it harder to take you seriously.
…..and even bigger money printing Government that’s caused this current crisis…
Just a small point, the Government in the USA doesn’t print money, the Federal Reserve does. (A mainly private organisation with some token representation from Government). Then funnily enough they give it to Wall Street and private businesses to artificially prop up the stock market to give an illusion of normality. Apparently a positive stock market inspires confidence in the population. Silly, silly population. Oh, and of course, along the way making themselves and their buddies fabulously wealthy without actually doing anything.
The reason they needed to do that was because of the dismantling of regulation, not because there was too much of it, starting with the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999.
Vote:The major financial organisations have spent billions lobbying/buying/bribing politicians to have regulations removed. As their campaign has increasingly succeeded, the worse things have become. What part of that is caused by too much regulation?
April 8th, 2011 at 9:22 am
Luc Hansen – I wouldn’t jump too quickly to Clinton’s defence. It was Clinton who signed into law the Gramm-Leach-Bliley and watered down the Glass-Steagall act. These actions directly led to the GFC.
Vote:Forget about Dems and Republicans. It doesn’t matter who is in power in the US, Wall Street runs the place. There are 5 financial lobbyists for every senator.
It isn’t known as Government Sachs for nothing.
April 8th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
Am I wrong, or is Kiwiblog getting a little more politically balanced these days? Is that why people like James and reid are getting so shitty?
Vote:April 9th, 2011 at 12:25 am
Megatron said: “Excellent speech. Couldn’t help but think that here is a future prime minister ( with a similar upbringing to John Key) Looking across the floor there is no one of this calibre in the Labour ranks.”
Sadly, there is no one of this calibre in the National ranks either, or we would have seen them crossing the floor on the Marine and Coastal Area Bill.
For the foreseeable future, Jami-Lee will have a miserable time of it watching every one of his fine principles ground into dust by a party leader that regards principles with barely-concealed contempt.
If Jami-Lee has not been terminally poisoned by a decade’s worth of dead rats, he may indeed rise to great eminence. But I predict he will do so as the head of another party, perhaps one as yet unformed.
There is not a snowball’s chance in hell that National will tolerate a conviction politician of his quality.
Vote:April 9th, 2011 at 3:01 am
Kaya: Just a small point, the Government in the USA doesn’t print money, the Federal Reserve does.
Kaya…you are truly a fuck-wit…….I’m embarrassed for you making that statement.In your world the AMA has no connection to Government where medicine is concerned either huh…..?
Save us..
Vote:April 9th, 2011 at 3:04 am
Maggie …..when it makes claims only a douche and a an idiot drop-kick could make in total contrast to all the evidence available call it as I see it. Your nonsense is worthy of nothing else.
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