Dear John

May 13th, 2011 at 10:54 am by David Farrar

Below is the letter sent to recently and has just released publicly. No great surprises in it, but it indicates to me that ACT plan to target National voters pretty aggressively.

Don Brash’s Dear John Letter to the PM

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180 Responses to “Dear John”

  1. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    Excellent letter.
    Key’s reply? Smile and wave.

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  2. berend (1,630 comments) says:

    National Party apologists, please explain this: “Two and ahalf years on, the ratio of government spending to the size of the economy is higher now than it ever was under Labour.”

    You guys have been harping on and on that John Key can’t do anything, voters won’t let him and such, we’re going in the right direction, baby steps and all that.

    You’re just being fooled by your party.

    And you remain a fool while voting for it.

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  3. dime (9,351 comments) says:

    Outstanding

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  4. annie (537 comments) says:

    Unfortunately, a Brash-led ACT party could drain some support from National. The economic hard right was with ACT anyway, but the racist vote that just couldn’t cope with supporting Winston will bleed to ACT. ACT pre-Brash was moderate on race issues, to its credit.

    It’s regrettable that this nasty Maori-bashing will again be part of an election campaign.

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  5. dime (9,351 comments) says:

    annie- are you a moron?

    maori bashing from the Don?

    Like what? “id like to see all maori get ahead”. oh the humanity!

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  6. backster (2,067 comments) says:

    I would endorse most of these questions..The most concerning is the refusal to do anything about youth rates thus condemning thousands of good teenage school-kids to lives of idleness and degradation…The weak effort by Minister BENNETT will enrich a few favoured ‘Trusts” and providers while doing little to resolve the problem. It is a typical Labour response.

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  7. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    Is someone able to post a normal weblink? Our corporate firewall mutilates Scribd docs so can’t read this.

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  8. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    n Opposition, National opposed getting rid of the minimum youth wage. One member, I recall, went so far as to suggest this was the route to communism

    What?! I remember Key saying something like that about WFF, but the youth minimum wage??

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  9. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,787 comments) says:

    Dr Brassica, like his vociforous Brussels Sprout cult followers, would have the PM break his fundamental 2008 election promise of ‘no major upheavals or surprises during the first term.’ (my paraphrase)

    It should nor go unremarked that at least one of his ‘issues,’ Kiwisaver costs, has been flagged for this budget while the after tax wage gap with Australia has closed and is about to close a damned site further thanks to Julia Gillard’s insatiable appetite for tax revenue.

    Dr Brash is yesterday’s man with last century’s catch cries. Like the Labour Party he is long on rhetoric but very very short on divulging exactly what he would do differently and when. When he finally gets around to telling voters his real agenda, if he does, he’ll be lucky to break five percent.

    Maybe we’ll see bill boards with Rodney Hide’s picture ‘Missing Me Yet?’

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  10. dave (985 comments) says:

    krazy kiwi – the NBR has it in full also

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  11. Mr Nobody NZ (397 comments) says:

    Stunningly brilliant.

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  12. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    I think Brash has jumped the gun, or more accurately jumped the budget. We will have a much better idea after next week whether National is seriously addressing the problems (Brash talks about) or not.

    We al knew (or should have known) there wouldn’t be major changes this term, and that the upcoming budget was the time to expect getting an outline of what policies National wanted to go forward with.

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  13. Peter (1,576 comments) says:

    Superb

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  14. johnbc (15 comments) says:

    Absolutely spot on. I’m praying Key has the guts to do what National Party voters deperately want him to do after he is assured a second term. And that Don is right up there stiffening his spine. Otherwise this country just keeps on sliding into some socialist loser status.

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  15. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    @dave – thanks. will read now.

    As an aside, anyone notice how the MSM – NBR included – use the same goofy photo of Brash in their stories? Pathetic really.

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  16. Chris R (65 comments) says:

    Great letter. It would be a perfect letter if it had been sent about 18 months ago!

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  17. labrator (1,742 comments) says:

    He writes better than he speaks.

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  18. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    Excellent letter from Don… and absolutely 100% on target.

    Oh and the Plentiful Blight is spamming the NBR comments section of this story. Groan.

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  19. s.russell (1,558 comments) says:

    I think this letter proves that if Brash had remained leader of the National Party he would probably not have won the 2008 election. (He would not have got the votes Key got, and the Maori Party would have shunned him, leaving National/Act short of a majority.)

    Where would we be now if that had happened?

    And if he had won, he would now be staring down the barrel of electoral annihilation. He would have done some good things. But Labour would be poised to come back in and undo them.

    Where would we be then if that happened?

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  20. dime (9,351 comments) says:

    Pete – jumped the gun? or given JK an extra push heading into the budget…

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  21. berend (1,630 comments) says:

    Adolf Fiinkensein: Dr Brassica … would have the PM break his fundamental 2008 election promise of ‘no major upheavals or surprises during the first term.’

    May I simply note that borrowing $380 million a week or 10% of GDP per year doesn’t count as a major upheaval for a National Party apologist?

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  22. OTGO (508 comments) says:

    Adolf F11.22 Did we read the same letter?
    Who thinks JK will be penning his reply any time soon? Not me. National promised much but delivered little. Just tinkering around the edges is all.

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  23. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    Dr Brassica, like his vociforous Brussels Sprout cult followers, would have the PM break his fundamental 2008 election promise of ‘no major upheavals or surprises during the first term.’

    Here comes Adolf, Key’s self-appointed cheerleader supreme and defender of the indefensible!

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  24. Andrew (31 comments) says:

    hmmm, as much as it pains me to not vote National, I might be voting ACT this year.

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  25. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,787 comments) says:

    OTGO

    There is an old Chinese proverb.

    ‘Neither children nor fools should see a thing half finished.’

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  26. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    ‘Neither children nor fools should see a thing half finished.’

    Exactly what your beloved National Party is doing: finishing the job of bankrupting New Zealand started by Labour.

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  27. Inventory2 (10,085 comments) says:

    Goodness; someone’s asking a few VERY pointed questions of Our Penny. I’m sure that we’d all LOVE to see her answers; what about it Penny?

    Before I send you a donation Penny, I was wondering if you can answer the following questions.

    1) How much does she receive in donations?

    2) Conflict of interest – who makes the donations and what is their agenda/affiliation?

    3) Precisely when did she cease to be a communist/Wairapa Maoist?

    4) Given that Jim Gladwin is still a communist are we right in assuming that whilst no longer a party member that she still holds true to the agenda?

    5) Has Penny Bright ever used the ‘free services’ of a certain female private investigator to dig up dirt on business roundtable members…including going through private rubbish?

    6) Why does Penny Bright support Palestinian terrorism i.e. Hamas?

    7) Why does Penny think that the Twin Towers were blown up by the CIA and Jewish interests?

    8) Can Penny confirm or deny her past and current illegal drug use, benefit fraud and tax evasion?

    9) Can Penny confirm or deny having stated that NZ would be best run under a command economy model?
    Key’s a Poof | Friday, May 13, 2011 – 11:28am

    Now we might see whether Penny advocates transparency for all, or only for everyone EXCEPT herself and those who slavishly follow her …

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  28. Mr Nobody NZ (397 comments) says:

    It might be worthwhile filing those questions Inventory for next time she lurks around here.

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  29. Nookin (3,030 comments) says:

    Oh dear, Penny has gone and got someone really pissed. I wonder if we will all be disturbed by her FACTS and her EVIDENCE, assuming of course that she responds. Do you think that these questions should be posted on each thread? In a kind and caring way, I would not like her to miss them.

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  30. Elaycee (4,285 comments) says:

    3, 2, 1 …. cue the blog blight.

    Anyone home? Nah, I though not.

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  31. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    “why are you continuing labour’s wasteful spending?”

    uh oh Don – someone hasn’t been reading their focus group reports. Kevin Taylor will not be proud of you today.

    This is a great way for Brash to create the impression that he and Key aren’t acting in concert to secure a wider agenda. The myth they will be trying to portray is that they want different things, when in fact they both want the same things – privatisation and greater higher profits in the private sector. Both points will lead to more control of NZ’s capital in the hands of the global banks, whom Brash and Key have both worked for (the RBNZ Act does the same thing by keeping interest rates artificially high) . John just takes his focus group reports very seriously. That’s the only difference.

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  32. Lance (2,437 comments) says:

    As nice as all this theory is, if you stand on your principles and lose the election (to Labour) then you were just pissing in the wind. Politics has been described as the ‘art of the possible’ and this term the horrendously leftist NZ electorate needs time to adjust.
    Talk is cheap when you can’t gain power.

    For the record I pretty much agree with what most of Brash is saying but ACT can only exist as a party of influence and will not carry the bulk of the electorate with them. No amount of screaming and yelling will change that.
    A second term National govt will have a greater mandate to head in the correct direction.
    But Brash knows this, it’s his job to release a statement like this.

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  33. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    Has anyone seen comrades magic bullet and Penny in the same room? The two highest consumers of tin foil could be the very same person feigning writing styles.

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  34. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Manolo – it’s just a hypothesis. It pays to have a few frameworks to look at things through. That way you have more chance of having a balanced view of things. Also – in the world of politics, where much is hidden, it pays to keep an open mind. Things may not always be as they are represented in the MSM. I think the hypothesis i advance above is a workable one. If you disagree, please tell me why?

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  35. Elaycee (4,285 comments) says:

    MB – please go check your meds. Someone must have swapped your blood pressure pills for the ones with the smiley face.

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  36. YesWeDid (1,029 comments) says:

    Letter from John Key to Don Brash:

    Hi Don,

    Thanks for your letter dated 12 May 2011, which I read with much interest.

    After some thought I have decided at the coming election to not stand a lame-duck-no-name-journey-man as the National candidate in Epsom but I will be contesting the seat for National myself.

    I will also be sending my good friends at ‘The Standard’ a sample of the photos I have of you in various states of undress with ladies who charge by the hour.

    Good luck in getting the 5% you need to get any seats in parliament.

    Regards
    Your very very very good friend
    John Key

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  37. PaulP (140 comments) says:

    @Lance 12:19pm – totally agree. No point in making rapid changes and getting tossed out on your ear. Politics is about slow and steady winning the race – although we have only seen VERY slow so far!

    A dramatic lurch to the right will see National out on its ear – and, you can’t achieve much in opposition.

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  38. PaulL (5,870 comments) says:

    Good letter. Increases likelihood I might vote for ACT. I’m just playing it forward though. Imagine that Don does pull, say, 8%. What happens?
    – do some of the soft National voters get panicked, and move to Labour or Green?
    – does the Maori Party or Winston or Dunne run on a policy of “keeping ACT away from National”?
    – does National’s vote drop substantially?

    It’s amazing how fast things can change in politics. If a few things go right for Don, does that mean many things go bad for Key?

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  39. redeye (631 comments) says:

    Not knowing a great deal about Kiwi politics, is it fair to assume the coalition deal between ACT and National is up for renegotiation following the next election?

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  40. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    On points:

    Brash : 10
    Key : 0

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  41. smttc (686 comments) says:

    Yes Paulp. But there were some things National could have done.

    Repeal anti-smacking law.

    No ETS.

    Repeal FSA.

    Support Roger Douglas’s youth minimum wage bill.

    I think Brash is right. Key is too scared of offending the soft Labour and Green vote which migrated to National in 2008.

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  42. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    No need for that Elay – I am only pointing out that there are different workable hypotheses to view the right’s macro-economic agenda. At the moment, it is undeniable that the RBNZ Act came out of “Washington consensus” politics involving the World Bank, where Don Brash was an economist. Incidentally Brash was also the RBNZ Governor for 14 years. His tenure at the helm there brought huge windfalls for the massive overseas banks. Douglas and Prebble were also part of this. They organised the Treasury and round table (Kerr etc) people to write much of the legislation. Here’s a little interesting information about NZ’s round table in the international context.

    http://www.hollings.net/Content/Banyan-AShortHistoryOfTheRoundTablePart5.pdf

    Now – you should starting to be getting a little suspicious about Brash and the NZRB Act. We don’t need that to control inflation any longer as we have a decentralised labour market – and you don’t need both. It’s either one or the other.

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  43. berend (1,630 comments) says:

    Lance: As nice as all this theory is, if you stand on your principles and lose the election (to Labour) then you were just pissing in the wind. Politics has been described as the ‘art of the possible’ and this term the horrendously leftist NZ electorate needs time to adjust.

    What principles are we talking about here Lance? Starting with borrowing $0, now down to $380 million, and borrowing 10% of GDP this year?

    Why exactly is John Key preferred to Labour?

    And what are we adjusting to? Bailout by IMF?

    Open your eyes, and see what John Key is doing. He’s doing exactly what Labour would be doing + some.

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  44. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    I’m praying Key has the guts to do what National Party voters deperately want him to do after he is assured a second term.

    Oh really? The national voters that put this government in power were not voters that would be even slightly interested Dr ‘snake in the grass’ Brash.

    This chasing the wage gap with Australia is the most ignorant, dim witted, illogical crap I think I have ever heard. Ignorant money hungry fools aside, the average Kiwi understands this and will not put a govt in charge with a ‘rash Brash’ having any influence.

    Dr Brash is an idiot, he has just done more damage for lasting reform in this country than any of the left have managed since National got elected.
    Congratulations you old has-been dick head.

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  45. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    The Round Table is arguably the father of the plethora of think-tanks and unofficial policy-planning organisations we see around the world today. A Short History of the Round Table – Part 5 Page 6 of 9

    http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/third_section/Round_Table_part5.html
    All the features that distinguished and were pioneered by the Round Table—including exclusive membership, private off-the-record meetings, financial support from the business community, a focus on changing elite rather than popular opinion and a high-profile periodical—have been adopted by countless other organisations around the world. Perhaps the most important of these organisational successors to the Round Table include the Council on Foreign Relations, Chatham House, the Trilateral Commission, the
    Bilderbergers and the World Economic Forum.

    By the time the Round Table had been formed in 1909, Britain’s moment as a great power had already passed. As this series has sought to illustrate, despite their valiant and conspiratorial efforts, Rhodes, Milner, Curtis, Kerr and their cohorts were too late to save the Empire and create the English-speaking union that they believed would bring peace to the world. Instead, primary responsibility for establishing the New World Order was to fall to elite groups within the United States. Britain’s destiny then, as now,
    was to become a junior partner in a program for global control largely devised and implemented from Washington DC, rather than in London.

    I

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  46. Minnie (96 comments) says:

    Two simple things called “no surprises” and “keeping your word”. In office National has done both, despite some massive financial hits. If they campaign on changes to kiwisaver and partial asset sales, amongst other things that Dr Brash might approve, and get re-elected, it will be down to the trust developed by “no surprises” and “keeping your word”.

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  47. Jman (84 comments) says:

    An excellent letter. Sums up all the reasons I will be switching my vote from National to Act.

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  48. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    As a Prime Minister, John Key is an empty suit. A man who promised so much and has delivered so little over the last two and half years.

    Despite of the attempts by his many apologists, sycophants, and spin-doctors, Key is a vacuous entity, a ditherer who stands for nothing and loves inaction and aloofness.

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  49. KiwiGreg (3,169 comments) says:

    “A man who promised so much and has delivered so little over the last two and half years.”

    I do give him credit for a 33% tax rate.

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  50. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    You chaps remind me of why the extreme right are just as bad as the extreme left, (otherwise known as Labour).

    You are the same.
    Driven by selfishness and a ‘born to lead’ ethic based on nothing but your own collective narcissism.

    The difference is that our destruction would be much swifter if the extreme right gained control, that’s for damned sure.

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  51. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    I’m actually starting to wonder if Brash’s and Key’s agenda is to, in concert with their American banker brethren, globalise so much of the world’s capital (privatise and make labour cheap for international capital by holding wages down with right wing labour law and the RBNZ Act), that there will be ever more calls for regional currencies, then governments. If that happens it will probably mean the end of real democracy.

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  52. publicwatchdog (2,093 comments) says:

    Hi folks!

    (Yes – it seems that I have REALLY upset someone/ some people with my comments – or why would they bother with all this ad hominem / diversionary stuff?

    I must be absolutely ‘over the target’!

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    My comment on NBR:

    My considered opinion is how on earth could Don Bra$h – ‘I’ve got the ca$h – it’s my way or the highway’ even think about going into a coalition arrangement with John Key or this National Party if he is SO opposed to his policies and politics?

    How hypocritical and unprincipled is THAT?

    (yawn………. all part of the ‘perception’ deception – trying to pretend there are major differences between the National “A” Team and National “B” Team (ACT)….

    PS: How fascinating that ‘Anonymous’
    Friday, May 13, 2011 – 11:10am is posting comments from my blog :)

    Seems to have triggered the typical apoplectic response from Lindsay Fergusson, is it ? (former high-flyer from the Business Round Table?)

    Sounds like you Lindsay! ;)

    Of course when GUTLESS/ ‘Anonymous’ people don’t put their names to their posts – how does one know from where /whom they have been sent?

    :)

    Kind regards.

    Penny Bright
    http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

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  53. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    I actually think that my narrative makes more sense than the “MSM’s – which seems to want us to believe that there’s no big-picture, long-term planning at the elite level. That notion is silly.

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  54. David Garrett (6,307 comments) says:

    DPF: As a National Party stalwart, perhaps you could tell us which parts of the letter (well done John Ansell, I think) you, disagree with?

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  55. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Shunda said…
    Dr Brash is an idiot,

    And then perhaps you are not?

    Man, I didn’t know that other idiots can’t see or identify their fellow idiots.

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  56. reversespin (68 comments) says:

    I think Don and Act should think twice about biting the hand that feeds them, it is not unreasonable to suggest the National could put them out of the game completely and permanently at the snap of the fingers – something YesWeDid alludes to above.

    Throughout the recent ACT coup, Brash kept refering to polling he was doing and that it would come out in the following week. He even offered the caucus to wait for that polling to come back. Has anyopne seen it? What happened to it?

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  57. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    @Shunda – the ‘extreme right’ you mention exists only in minds poisoned by decades of creeping socialism. NZ’s entire political spectrum, including ACT, has slid inexorably to the left as successive governments have pandered to the whims of voters easily bribed. No, there is no far right in NZ.

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  58. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Benny Bright & Magic Bullet, why the fuck you 2 are so anti-business? Who makes the computers that you 2 idiots are using to post irrelevant messages on the internet? Who makes the cars that you drive around? Who makes the cell phones that you use everyday? Its big businesses you fucking idiots?

    If you don’t like to live in a world where products from big businesses improve our daily lives, then I have a suggestion for you. King Taufa Tupou 5th of Tonga would be happily offer you one of his remote uninhabited Islands (‘Ata) so you two could inhabit. There will be no electricity, no cell phones, no TV, no cars, etc, etc… By living in a remote island like that, your disdain for big businesses is satisfied, since you two won’t use their evil products. How about that suggestion, huh?

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  59. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    Tonga is too close for this dreadful and obnoxious pair. I suggest beautiful Somalia, instead.

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  60. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Fisi – you can’t understand the national organisations of political capital unless you understand their relation to global organisations of political capital. That’s my point here. Nothing to do with being pro or anti-business.

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  61. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    … that’s why i’m saying that the apparent division between National and Act is just a shell game. A bit of theatre to keep the public distracted from the important trends in the world of finance and capital. Namely – globalisation and privatisation. That’s the global trend. Above all, it is the New-York and Washington-based international banks that win out with these Washington consensus policies. Funny that huh?

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  62. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    The Government’s hope and strategy for the last couple of years was to reduce the cost of the bureaucracy and impose tight discipline on any new spending, but not to cut any significant current spending. This was projected to see a return to surplus in six years, and had pretty minimal political risk.

    Crystal clear explanation of Labour-lite’s “hope and strategy” policy: do not rock the boat, fingers crossed, she’ll be right, do not scare anyone, whatever-it-takes-to-stay-in-power.

    Our country? Who cares!

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  63. RightNow (6,638 comments) says:

    magic bullet – you have to get people to stop fuelling their consumption through debt. I’m not sure what you think you’re achieving bleating on about it here (except, like the toothless water watcher, stoking your ego).
    Politicians aren’t going to bite the hand that feeds them, look at BHO – he’s got Wall St’s cock firmly lodged in his butt. The only way to effect the change you seem to want is to starve the beasts. And that has to be driven from the bottom up, by the consumers. You should be campaigning on the streets to stop people racking up so much debt.

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  64. niggly (799 comments) says:

    Oh dear, what was Don (and his advisors) thinking when they released that letter?

    Yes DPF is correct, they will be aggressively targeting some National voters. But c’mon, that would only be a handful of percentage points – no more than a few at the most. So ACT may, if they are lucky, cross the 5% threshold come election time.

    Meanwhile I’d suggest a greater proportion of (one time Labour supporters that voted) National may slink back to Labour.

    Result? Don and advisors could potentially hand an election victory to a motely rag-tag Labour coalition of losers.

    So Don and his advisors – what dumb fuckers you are. Just as dumb as the hard-left.

    Sorry I’m with the more astute people on here. It might have escaped Don and his advisors that National said this term they would stick to their 2008 Election promises so this term wouldn’t see any upheaveal. It might have escaped Don and his advisors that NZ is in its worse finanical crisis since the Great Depression and rather than start a revolution from within NZ by taking extreme measures, have decided to steer a safer course in the meantime.

    Don and his advisors know all this of course, hence this is simply politics and some would say good on the John Ansell’s etc, for highlighting the ACT brand. But I say, nah, you’re still dumb fuckers because the majority of NZ’ers will be put off by these tactics – it makes Don look like some sort of spoiled brat who spat out his dummy losing the National leadership to Key, and will play more towards the Opposition than a ACT and National. All the Opposition has to do is pull out the dirt on Don and scare NZ voters that they a National Win will result in a hard-right agenda.

    Don may possess a great mind but he is a lightweight when it comes to politics – he can’t debate even against MSM reporters who still give him shit and Don simply laughes it off when they shit all over him.

    Any more antics like this letter or worse and I’d then agree with the person who said that National just needs to put a good candidate in Epsom and be gone with this ACT Party that has constantly been biting the hand that feeds. Also gets rid of Labour’s perception (that they will be talking up) that ACT + National will be bad news for voters of NZ.

    Win-Win for National, eh. :-)

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  65. MikeE (555 comments) says:

    Was about to say, this has to be a John Ansell letter… everything about the choice of language screams it!

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  66. David Farrar (1,853 comments) says:

    David G:

    On the issue of WFF and interest free loans I would point out National was elected specifically on a promise not to do away with them. National got 45% of the vote and ACT promising to get rid of them got 4%. So it is hardly betraying those who voted for you to keep your word.

    On KiwiSaver National did promise to make changes to make it more affordable, and they did. And again further changes will be flagged next week for the next term of Parliament.

    On the issue of the youth minimum wage I agree with Don. I have blogged on this issue a dozen or so times and criticised National for not voting for Sir Roger’s bill.

    On the ETS, National has again kept to its manifesto promise. National did not introduce the ETS. Labour passed it into law in 2008. National promised to review it, did so and made changes that business said reduce the impact on them and also reduces the impact on consumers. National did not in 2008 promise to repeal the ETS – it explicitly said it would retain it.

    On superannuation I think it is regrettable that John Key pledged not to change the retirement age. I understand the politics of it were to stop Labour scare-mongering current pensioners. But the reality is Key not only ruled it out but pledged he would resign from Parliament if he broke his word on that issue. So I really wonder about the motivations of people who urge him to do just that, as the impact would be to destroy John Key’s credibility and make him unelectable.

    On the Maori issues, I don’t see anything done by the Government that conflicted with the 2008 manifesto. Now it is obvious that the deal with the Maori Party has led the Government to do some things it would not have otherwise done. But that is how MMP works. Is Don saying that if ACt do a deal with National after the election, National should not give ACT any wins?

    I agree with the direction Don would like us to go economically. That is why I am glad to see signs of changes to big spending programmes in next week’s budget. Also why I am glad to see asset sales on the agenda. However unlike Don I don’t urge the Government to do things which would break its 2008 manifesto. That is what would be a betrayal of those who voted National.

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  67. thedavincimode (6,512 comments) says:

    Slam dunk.

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  68. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    Slam dunk.

    Good on you davincimode. I always hoped some day you would see the light. :D

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  69. publicwatchdog (2,093 comments) says:

    Falafulu Fisi (845) Says:
    May 13th, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    Benny Bright & Magic Bullet, why the fuck you 2 are so anti-business? Who makes the computers that you 2 idiots are using to post irrelevant messages on the internet? Who makes the cars that you drive around? Who makes the cell phones that you use everyday? Its big businesses you fucking idiots? ..”
    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    errr…. ‘Falafulu Fisi’ – what I am TOTALLY opposed to is the ownership/ operation and management of essential public services (at local and central government) by the private sector under the ‘business’ model.

    The ‘business’ model seems to be GREAT for business – but not quite so marvellous for ratepayers and tax payers.

    Always comes back to the basics – ‘where is the money going?’ – ‘who is benefiting’?

    (I have this obviously ‘wild’ idea that the public majority (not private consultants/contractors) should benefit from public monies :)

    Cheers!

    Penny Bright
    http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

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  70. BeaB (2,056 comments) says:

    Good riddance to our geriatric Casanova. He does exactly what many of us want – show John Key to be moderate, sensible and humane. We had enough of Ruth Richardson and her hard-faced ilk.
    So now the far right and the far left don’t like Key. Good. We in the middle certainly do.

    And as for calling Maoris privileged. Hasnt this noddy read the statistics – crime, school failure, poverty, welfare dependency, health, mental health, child abuse etc etc. Some privilege!

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  71. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Niggly said…
    But I say, nah, you’re still dumb fuckers because the majority of NZ’ers will be put off by these tactics

    Again, and you’re not a dumbfucker?

    Would you stop to think for a while that may be National voters that are dumbfuckers? The reason they voted for National is because they benefits from WFF, Kiwisaver, interest free loans. If they didn’t then they would all vote for Labour, because Labour will be doing exactly the same thing of redistributing wealth to them. So, voters go with the party with policies that they know they have something to gain from. Why would you vote out a government that acts as a Santa Claus to you?

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  72. big bruv (13,193 comments) says:

    ha ha..I might have guessed that Adolf would be one of the first cheer leaders to rush in and defend Neville Key.

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  73. David Garrett (6,307 comments) says:

    DPF: Fair comment David. I remember raving during the last campaign about National’s meaningless slogan “chose a brighter future”. Finally, an exasperated old political hand explained to me that this was just the point – it was SUPPOSED to be meaningless, and therefore make it impossible to hold them to acount later.

    So to the extent that Key has not done the things he said he wouldn’t do – such as alter the super age entitlement – I guess you have a point.

    On the F&S, if my memory serves me, Key said he would not pass a law which did not have broad consensus, and if that broad consensus could not be achieved, Labour’s F & S Act would remain. While no-one would claim the Coastal Coalition’s campaign set the country on fire – no disrespect to them, people are simply apathetic – neither could anyone claim there was any overwhelming consensus. So on that issue alone, Key most certainly has NOT done what he said he would – or rather wouldnt.

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  74. Scott (1,693 comments) says:

    Totally agree with you DPF. Although I agree with much of what Don Brash would like to do there is just no way National could do it without committing electoral suicide.

    However they are going in the right direction.

    Unlike you I would like to see them get a bit more steel about social issues and undo some of the nihilistic social and cultural vandalism that was the major legacy of the previous government.

    Given that 85% of the electorate believes that parents should have the right to physically discipline their own children then I would like to see a change made in the legislation there.

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  75. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    That John Key is now being attacked by the left and the right means he is doing something no other prior govt managed: balance.

    Don Brash has made a very foolish and very destabilising attack on the govt, the left must be celebrating this unexpected (and undeserved) opportunity.

    Good on you old man, you have just bit off your nose to spite your face.

    I will not vote for a party that goes into coalition with ACT now, Rodney was ok, but this prick is intolerable.

    Strangely enough, The Maori party is looking more and more like an option for Pakeha that can’t stomach voting for the left but also can’t stomach enabling ‘snake in the grass’ Brash.

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  76. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    The Maori party is looking more and more like an option for Pakeha that can’t stomach voting for the left but also can’t stomach enabling ‘snake in the grass’ Brash.

    It must have been a very potent “electric puha” the one that made you write the above. Pure and simple delusion.

    Very few Pakeha would choose to vote for an openly racist party, which vows to give its ilk an elevated status within New Zealand society, akin to “all animals are equal, but pigs are more equal than others”

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  77. GJ (329 comments) says:

    I think watching the Act party vote will be very interesting this year. I am currently a National supporter as to date there has been no viable alternative, however I also wish John Key had a bit more backbone to stand up for what he really does beleive. I will seriously consider Act.

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  78. David Garrett (6,307 comments) says:

    Manolo: Last para. Well said sir…I hope you dont get attacked by illiterates who havent actually READ Animal Farm, and therefore leap to the conclusion you are equating Maori with pigs…

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  79. berend (1,630 comments) says:

    Minnie: Two simple things called “no surprises” and “keeping your word”. In office National has done both, despite some massive financial hits.

    Ah, so being a follower in ETS instead of leader is keeping your word. And borrowing $380 million a week is the policy of no surprise.

    No wonder I can’t understand Nats.

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  80. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    magic bullet (771) Says:
    May 13th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
    “why are you continuing labour’s wasteful spending?”

    uh oh Don – someone hasn’t been reading their focus group reports. Kevin Taylor will not be proud of you today.

    This is a great way for Brash to create the impression that he and Key aren’t acting in concert to secure a wider agenda. The myth they will be trying to portray is that they want different things, when in fact they both want the same things – privatisation and greater higher profits in the private sector. Both points will lead to more control of NZ’s capital in the hands of the global banks, whom Brash and Key have both worked for (the RBNZ Act does the same thing by keeping interest rates artificially high) . John just takes his focus group reports very seriously. That’s the only difference.

    Crikey mb, you realise this is really the work of the Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires? We’re through the looking glass, here, people..

    As for the letter, I just can’t wait for John Ansell to translate those paragraphs into a whole set of campaign material synchronised with those same points being raised in every debate and speech. As I’ve said before, I think Brash/ACT should drop the whole one-citizen angle. It’s a distraction from the economics and loses votes that would otherwise be there cause of the economics, it’s not necessary in terms of maintaining ideological empathy with the vast majority of ACT’s voters, and finally it gives unlimited ammunition to the lefties who distract the entire media corp everytime they throw a focus on it. To them it’s the gift that keeps on giving. But drop that and you have remaining, a coherent set of highly marketable economic policies and plus you now have the complete range of formidable attack and defense strategies available to use, without the risk of distraction every time you score a useful point/raise a useful illustration.

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  81. Bill Bennett (25 comments) says:

    Two things occur to me:

    1. Don Brash stayed in the National Party a long time for someone THAT disillusioned. Before I take the letter seriously I’d like to know what he did inside the party to counter the policies and approaches to policy he decries.

    2. Assuming National and Act form a future government, what happens, after two and half more years of John Key sensibly not biting the hand that electorally feeds him? Will another outside join Act and write a similar letter to Don?

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  82. gravedodger (1,504 comments) says:

    I well remember the Orwell book ‘Animal Farm’, devious old Wally Stark made it a part of 6th form Farm management and budgeting c. 1959, I often wonder if Rector Stewart knew about it.
    Poor old ‘Boxer’ “I will work harder” and when he collapsed the socialist elite told the others they were sending him to the Vet when the truth was he went straight to the knackers.
    Should be required study for all year 11 students as a counter to all the socialist drivel they are exposed to now.

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  83. Jimbob (640 comments) says:

    Many people will vote ACT now, just to get rid of the ETS, and the middle class welfare of WFF and interest free student loans. This country is going back into recession for a long time, so National’s game plan for November has no room for error.

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  84. Dyannt (28 comments) says:

    Whatever opinion I might have of Don Brash as a person, he at least is asking the questions I want answers to as we head towards an election.
    I know National is indicating changes in the budget, so I see Brash’s letter as a reminder that people who voted National in 2008 will be wanting to see some progress in 2011/12, towards getting NZ living within its means

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  85. thedavincimode (6,512 comments) says:

    Now now Manolo. You know what I meant.

    And, how shocked I was to see that you were first off the mark!! (Not :) )

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  86. big bruv (13,193 comments) says:

    No need for Dr Brash to target me any longer, he has both of my votes (even if my electoral vote is effectively wasted, I cannot and will not vote for any National party MP)

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  87. elscorcho (151 comments) says:

    I’m an ignorant leftie, so can someone explain how removing youth rates is harmful?
    I own a business. I need a staff member.
    Now, in the past, I might have hired a teenager cos it was cheaper.
    Now, because the cost is the same, I hire an adult
    The end result is the same: 1 person off unemployment

    How is that harmful? If we have 100 unemployed people does it really matter what % of those are 16-19 and what % are 20-59?

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  88. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    What pisses me off here is the justification National uses which is they need to stick to their campaign promises.

    Several things.

    The campaign promises in the first place were clearly designed based on super-dumb under-estimations of the serious fundamental effect of the GFC. It’s as if the Nat’s weren’t aware of the size of the looming tsunamai and if they weren’t they are fucking morons because it was drop dead obvious back then, simply by observing the US/European landscape. Fucking d’oh. (Guess this wasn’t English’s responsiblity, was it? What’s that? It was? I see…)

    Secondly, the GFC in itself presented a golden opportunity if ever there was one, to use it as an excuse to cover-up your miscalculation before it was too late, and revert to the more sensible policy set which should have been enuciated in the first place. Phew. Thank fuck for the GFC, eh? That’s what they should have done, but no. The silly mentals simply kept on the dumb path, behaving as a govt almost exactly like one of the those people who heads for the beach immediately upon receiving a tsunamai warning to “have a look see…”

    And now they show absolutely on sign of doing anything other than even less of what they should be doing, on the grounds they want to capture and expand into the centre-left. I mean fuck. Let’s not consider what the correct answer for the economy is, shall we. Let’s not worry about that, it’s just the economy, it doesn’t matter.

    Now John, this is actually what your govt has done and seemingly is planning on doing in future.

    I’m not sure this is going to produce a good outcome other than make you popular but that doesn’t count if things are really expensive and there isn’t anything but rising unemployment and rising inflation and stagflation is what you’re risking by your tactics. I’m not sure but I seem to recall stagflation is not a good thing, but perhaps you could ask Bill. I’m sure he’ll get it wrong and tell you it’s good either deliberately cause he hates you or mistakenly cause he’s dumb give you the right answer, since you don’t appear to grasp it yourself.

    I’m an ignorant leftie, so can someone explain how removing youth rates is harmful?

    Nothing much really just the govt stats which all sides use and rely on for all sorts of things proves that without a youth rate, less youth are employed so aren’t trained and get a start on the ladder. Why hire a callow youth when you may as well hire a hungry for work 24 year old?

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  89. elscorcho (151 comments) says:

    Also, how do so-called rightists align their love for Don Brash and the Roundtable with their assumedly hawkish views on security and defence?
    From the Strategos reviews of NZDF and Police in the late 80s/early 90s until today, the Roundtable and people like ACT have constantly questioned our need for a viable defence force – I believe it was Kerr who in the early 90s questioned our need for a deployable Bn Gp!

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  90. questlove (242 comments) says:

    If we have 100 unemployed people does it really matter what % of those are 16-19 and what % are 20-59?

    Remember that the youth rate only applied to 16-17 year olds.

    Also congratulations Don Brash on doing your best to scare the more moderate National supporters back to Labour.

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  91. big bruv (13,193 comments) says:

    “If we have 100 unemployed people does it really matter what % of those are 16-19 and what % are 20-59?”

    IMHO the shocking level of ‘yoof’ unemployment is the biggest problem facing our country, we are sitting on a time bomb and potentially another entire generation of people who have no work ethic at all.

    This generation of kids will be needed in our workforce if for no other reason than they will be needed to fund the ever increasing numbers of baby boomer’s who are rapidly approaching retirement.

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  92. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    1. Don Brash stayed in the National Party a long time for someone THAT disillusioned. Before I take the letter seriously I’d like to know what he did inside the party to counter the policies and approaches to policy he decries.

    Why? He’s the CEO, he’s not a lieutenant. That’s just who he is and what he’s done for most of his impressive career. It so happens that Key was the CEO and he couldn’t be deposed, there was no point in trying and it wouldn’t work anyway and it would weaken not strengthen the centre-right and there are probably about 100 other reasons I could list before others took over and kept going for ages. So personally, I don’t really care what he did in National after Key replaced him.

    I will say however the letter reeked of Brash’s usual integrity in that there was no hint whatsoever of anything the least negative (waspish, petty, malicious, choose your adjective. There was nothing like that, at all.) There was of course open disagreement and as usual for Brash when he does that, accompanying reasoning. It’s a shame isn’t it the media is so profoundly stupid or thinks we are, that if frequently conflates the latter with the former quality and frames its angles accordingly. I wish they wouldn’t do that.

    Also, how do so-called rightists align their love for Don Brash and the Roundtable with their assumedly hawkish views on security and defence?

    Personally I don’t care elscorcho. Businessmen and economists of course have no fucking idea about defence. It’s not surprising they don’t get it, but they are only one side of a many-sided equation when it comes to defence. That’s how I align it, works for me.

    congratulations Don Brash on doing your best to scare the more moderate National supporters back to Labour.

    questlove, this is where Key’s net of National love envelopes the lefties in a fluffy pillow of comfort and bullshit security.

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  93. thedavincimode (6,512 comments) says:

    reid lol

    A central plank of Key’s campaign was to build trust with the electorate. He emphasised that time and time again and has reiterated that again recently. Remember that commitment came in the context of nine years of labour introducing a significant number of controversial changes that were never signalled and had no electoral mandate. Privy Council, titular honours, civil union are three biggies in this context because those changes went to the heart of our constitutional and legal framework and social mores. And lets not forget the electoral finance legislation, the banning of free speech in election year and legitimisation of theft by Labour. That commitment was central to his announced intention to carry voters with him and was made so that people could trust him when he said what he would do. For the last 3 years, Labour have cried wolf and been wrong. They will continue to do so and in the process will look more and more desperate.

    So after all the railing against Labour for its unmandated changes, we now see a crescendo of critics who are now jumping on Key because he has been very focussed on keeping promises. Or is it just that he did break one promise early on in relation to tax cuts?

    I find it remarkable that he has been slagged off for being the first PM in my living memory to actually do as well as he has at keeping his commitments, particularly in the face of the pressure we are under, and to try and elevate his party out of the gutter of slime that Labour had dragged politics into. If people want to criticise his policies fine. If people want Labour returned this November, then silly you. But don’t put shit on the guy for making a pretty good fist of doing what he said he would, and signalling future changes so that not only would it allow people to gets their heads around those changes, but people would by now have the confidence to rely on those commitments.

    Are all these changes to slow? Yes. Is there good reason for Key’s approach? Well I think so given the strategy underlying the pace of change. But to criticise him just because he HASN”T been a serial promise breaker and shown himself to be just as untrustworthy as those arseholes in Labour just seems remarkable.

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  94. GK (97 comments) says:

    I have again become a member of ACT. I resigned during the reign of Rodney’s hubris. I voted Nat in the last election. I was mistaken in thinking John Key to have principles that outweighed popularity. I now see him as sinister. NZ is in the crapper and he hasn’t the courage required to lead it out.

    Don Brash does! He has my confidence

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  95. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    elsecho said…
    Roundtable and people like ACT have constantly questioned our need for a viable defence force

    There are 3 primary role for a government.

    - National Defense
    - Law & Order
    - Judiciary

    It should not exist to run programs such as WFF or Kiwisaver or many other non-core functions. Anything else should be decided by citizens on their own. If citizens want to save, then that’s their own decisions to make and not the government to do it on their behalf by taking money from person A and contributing some x amount to Kiwisaver account of person B. That’s just a simple example.

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  96. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    dvm, well said and interesting points. You make a good case for that being Key’s motivation.

    Notwithstanding though, what is the point of integrity if you’re not setting the right correct strategic direction?

    And my intuition is telling me that National isn’t planning on saying a whole hell of a lot about the correct things, such as privatization and the like. They may or may not talk about one major, not necessarily KiwiBank but one major, but they won’t make it the wholesale platform it actually needs to be if we are to fix this entirely fucken rooted economy.

    About the only good things I really see in the economy is Tim Grosser’s work and Powers work on securities law, albeit the latter is closing the door after… Fucking d’oh you mentals. To think we fucking have to pay your salaries. Call yourself legislators, lawmakers, Parliamentarians? You couldn’t run a fucking RSPCA kennel, apparently. According to the evidence gathered from your complete and utter inaction from every one of you who was in Parliament between around 1997-2007. Fucken fucken fucken d’oh.

    But that’s it. What else do others see? Anything? And that’s not what a centre-right govt should be achieving. No way.

    There are 3 primary role for a government.

    - National Defense
    - Law & Order
    - Judiciary

    It should not exist to run programs such as WFF or Kiwisaver or many other non-core functions.

    You forgot securities law.

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  97. tvb (4,192 comments) says:

    Brash has not got one damn clue how to get something done in politics. He starts out by publicly humiliating the PM. That really is going to be effective. If that does not work I assume he will hold a “gun” to his head. I would not do business with the man. Brash should just sit back and wait for the IMF to dictate things when the money runs out. He would really love that.

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  98. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    NZ is in the shitter because the global economy is in the shitter, any of you clowns ever thought that there is sweet f@ck all that little tiny “smaller than a large international city” NZ can do about it?

    After the shit we have been through in the South Island, I struggle to see how you bastards can hold to the crap that you do, why don’t you all f@ck off to Australia?.

    Typical selfish right wing pricks.

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  99. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    But to criticise him just because he HASN”T been a serial promise breaker and shown himself to be just as untrustworthy as those arseholes in Labour just seems remarkable.

    I take issue with your closing statement.

    Key has been a serial breaker. In many cases he has taken the opposite stance of what he advocated and defended while he was opposition to despicable Labour. Despite DPF’s verbal gymnastics, all of us have read Hansard and know exactly what Key and his Blue-Green colleague Smith said between 2005 and 2008. Semantics aside (“National didn’t sign Kyoto” or “National didn’t promised to repeal the ETS”) you know full well Brash is correct in highlighting the blatant discrepancies between National’s position before and after the election.

    I’ll be the last one to desire a Labour’s return to power, since the socialists did enough damage already beween 1999 and 2008. On the other hand, little has change since National gained power. Most of the policies the comrades instituted remain untouched, while National seems to be waiting for a myhtical recovery out of passivity (and inaction).

    English and Key have been a complete disappointment to voters like myself, who wanted a break from failed policies.

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  100. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    Shunda, NZ is in the shitter cause Liarbore didn’t squirrel any nuts whatsoever away during the preceeding nine years of plenty, in wise preparation for this very winter we have been now experiencing for three years.

    Instead, Liarbore preferred to selfishly distribute the nuts as they were gathered just like every fool does with his money and furthermore they did it in such a diabolical way that it has locked in that good-times distribution level to hearts and minds of tens and hundreds of thousands of floaters.

    This is really fucking serious. It’s like trying to swim the channel in rough weather with an anvil shackled to your ankle and we are therefore performing accordingly.

    Now this is fixable and has nothing whatsoever with the GFC and everything to do with political balls.

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  101. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    Sb: Strangely enough, The Maori party is looking more and more like an option for Pakeha that can’t stomach voting for the left but also can’t stomach enabling ‘snake in the grass’ Brash.

    Strangely enough, I think you’ve got a good point.

    M: Very few Pakeha would choose to vote for an openly racist party

    That could easily change. No party will be everything for anyone, but with tactical voting it’s not who you vote for that’s critical, it’s what balance of power you are trying to achieve.

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  102. publicwatchdog (2,093 comments) says:

    thedavincimode (1,713) Says:
    May 13th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    reid lol

    A central plank of Key’s campaign was to build trust with the electorate. ”
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________

    So – why did this John Key-led National railroad through, under ‘urgency’ the underpinning ‘$upercity’ framework legislation – the Local Government (Tamaki Makarau Reorganisation) Act 2009?

    National promised to ‘consult with Aucklanders once the findings of the Royal Commission were known’ :

    http://www.national.org.nz/files/2008/local_government_policy.pdf

    National – on Prime Minister John Key’s watch- LIED.

    Citizens were denied our lawful right to a ‘binding poll’ and now Auckland is being run ‘like a BIG business, by BIG business, for BIG business’, by unelected businesspeople who control 7 ‘Council Controlled Organisations’ (CCOs).

    This new Auckland (Supercity) Council is proposing a 4.9% rates increase.

    (While reducing most former Council’s prompt rates payment discounts.)

    Where are the ‘economies of scale’ resulting from forcibly abolishing our eight former councils and replacing them with this ‘corporate controlled organisation’?

    Bigger contract$ for fewer but bigger contractors? Serving whose interests?

    The ‘books’ are NOT open. We don’t know the name of the consultants/contractors; the scope, term and value of these contracts.

    WHO IS IN CHARGE? Where is the ‘due diligence’, ‘cost-benefit analysis’ and ‘transparency’?

    John Key – corporate raider – masterfully packaged as ‘Mr Popular’ / smiley nice guy.

    Once a corporate raider – always a corporate raider?

    What happened to the Auckland region, was most definitely a ‘corporate’ takeover………………

    Don’t know how much ‘trust’ will remain with the National “A” Team and “B” Team (ACT) in the ‘key’ Epsom electorate, as more and more voters who live in medium/high value properties realise they’re about to be hit with a 4.9% rates increase?

    What will Mr ‘empty one-liners / broken promises’ John Banks have to say to voters in the Epsom electorate about the marvellous Auckland $upercity – given that he was a loud and proud ‘$upercity’ supporter from Day One?

    (If ACT are dumb enough to select him?

    Or will John Bank$ just do a ‘Don Bra$h ‘I’ve got the ca$h’ and somehow select himself as the ACT candidate for Epsom?

    (Fair question isn’t it? That process(?) worked for Don Bra$h!)

    Hope John Bank$ does become the ACT candidate – that WILL be such fun!

    :)

    Penny Bright
    http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

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  103. elscorcho (151 comments) says:

    “There are 3 primary role for a government.

    - National Defense
    - Law & Order
    - Judiciary”

    - Then explain why ACT/Roundtable have consistently promoted cuts to defence and police funding?
    Do you want me to pull out the ol’ Strategos reports?
    Or the Kerr quote (which I have in an endnote DB somewhere)

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  104. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    BB: 1. Don Brash stayed in the National Party a long time for someone THAT disillusioned. Before I take the letter seriously I’d like to know what he did inside the party to counter the policies and approaches to policy he decries.

    That’s another very good point – but maybe you are being unfair, Brash might have just coincidentally come to the realisation that National wasn’t for him just after he came to the realisation that he could take over Act and needed some carefully worded publicity stunts.

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  105. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    Once a corporate raider – always a corporate raider?

    Er, Key was head of Merrill-Lynch’s currency trading division, as I understand Penny. That’s not repeat not repeat again eleventy gajillion times nothing whatsoever to do with Takeovers and Acquisitions, which is completely separate repeat separate et al, field.

    As far as your question of was/is Auckland City to be subject to a coup d’etat by corporate forces, (presumably who hire mercenaries to execute a midnight raid on the Town Hall?), I’m afraid a similar answer applies. You see Penny, the thing called local democracy somehow magically appears every so often like pixie dust but it’s real, cause everyone gets their say and that seems to happen, no matter what, even when there’s a war on. Isn’t that funny? I don’t understand it myself but for whatever reason, the fact it does, kinda refutes your entire point, unless I’m missing something.

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  106. berend (1,630 comments) says:

    thedavincimode: we now see a crescendo of critics who are now jumping on Key because he has been very focussed on keeping promises.

    Ah, he promised to borrow $380 million a week, didn’t know that!

    What party has the most use of urgency ever? Suppression of citizen input, has appointed a dictator, and borrows 10% of GDP per year?

    That wouldn’t, that can’t be the National Party, they are the honest buggers!!

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  107. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    - Then explain why ACT/Roundtable have consistently promoted cuts to defence and police funding?

    elscorcho this is the second time you’ve raised this angle. Yes no argument it’s true, but why is it so significant to you? Do you see it as hypocritical? As irreconcilable? As contradictory? As all three? If so, why? As I say, I have no argument as to its truth, you’re right on that.

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  108. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    NZ is in the shitter cause Liarbore didn’t squirrel any nuts whatsoever

    That’s not right, one thing helping the current accounts look not quite so bad is returns on the Cullen fund investment.

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  109. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    That could easily change. No party will be everything for anyone, but with tactical voting it’s not who you vote for that’s critical, it’s what balance of power you are trying to achieve.

    Exactly, and the Maori party have proven to be a stable coalition partner and also hold to many values that swing voters and social conservatives find attractive.
    And as far as “racist” goes, they kicked him out didn’t they?

    The Maori party are no more racist than the rash Brash.

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  110. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    On the other hand, little has change since National gained power. Most of the policies the comrades instituted remain untouched,

    What utter unadulterated bullshit!!

    What the hell are all the henny pennies on the left so upset about then?

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  111. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    That’s not right, one thing helping the current accounts look not quite so bad is returns on the Cullen fund investment.

    Yes Pete and I’ve always said the Cullen Fund was one policy I always agreed with. Incidentally I advocated for it whenever I could not because I thought it was the best design but cause it was the only one. But you’re right, Liarbore did that.

    Proportionately however, if you look back over the Liarbore years with 20/20 hindsight and real, hard, actual data on the outcomes of every single thing they did, could you seriously judge that the Cullen Fund stacked up against their tremendously expensive middle-class spending lock-ins which were done precisely and deliberately with knowledge aforethought, to address not a social welfare human need, but a venal, political one.

    That’s what they did Pete. The data is there. Ya just can’t argue with it.

    So you’re right, the Cullen Fund is a positive I failed to mention however balancing that against the negative lock-ins still results in negative yield. It just does.

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  112. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    No, I won’t argue with that.

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  113. The Silent Majority (82 comments) says:

    It is incredibly refreshing to read Don Brash’s letter; at last, a politician who says what he truly believes. The right wing in this country has been muzzled for too long, we have been living in a claustrophobic cotton wool bubble of left wing bullshit with very little balance at all in mainstream media reporting.

    Now, this letter is all over the media and the ideas that can reverse this countries decline are finally getting some coverage.

    It is a relief, it gives hope, and it means there may yet be hope for NZ.

    ACT have my vote.

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  114. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Elschordo said…
    Then explain why ACT/Roundtable have consistently promoted cuts to defence and police funding?

    Can you point me out to where have they promoted that? I may have missed it.

    Shunda you are not arguing anything here. You have stated nothing here. State of what are you arguing for or against? Your reasoning/belief is more akin to kids tricky riddles at the playground.

    First Kid:
    ———-
    Which is heavier: a kilogram of bricks or a kilogram of marbles?

    Second Kid:
    ————-
    Don’t be stupid. It is the kilogram of bricks.

    First Kid:
    ———-
    No wrong! It is the kilogram of marbles.

    They went on and on arguing about who is right.

    Suddenly their parents arrived to pick them up. The 2 enthusiast kids, asked their parents to tell them who is right. One of the parents said, sorry but you’re both wrong. They are exactly the same in their weights. They are different in their compositions, but weightwise, they’re exactly the same.

    Labour or National they are the same. There is no difference. Some people like Shunda will vote for National simply because he likes the name “National”. If National will implement all of Labour’s policies, Shunda will still vote for National regardless.

    That’s a question for National supporters. In what exactly are you voting National for, if it is no difference to Labour? Is it personalities of the MPs or their policies?

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  115. mattyroo (957 comments) says:

    Shunda barunda said:

    NZ is in the shitter because the global economy is in the shitter, any of you clowns ever thought that there is sweet f@ck all that little tiny “smaller than a large international city” NZ can do about it?

    You’re a fuckin idiot shunda, a complete mental fuckin tool. The NZ economy is not in the shitter because the global economy is in the shitter. In fact, comparatively the NZ economy is out performing the global economy, for the position it is in, being its debt levels. The fact that we are getting good prices for our commodities is why our dollar remains high, if it were not for these commodities, then we truly would be in the shitter. I bet you’re one of the stupid cunts who is complaining about the price of milk right now. But you’re too fucking stupid to realise that that very same milk is saving you and yours’ asses.

    If we were not doing so well, our dollar would be sitting right around the 40 cent USD mark, therefore making everything we import so much more expensive – the big thing we import being foreign dosh, so over-leveraged idiots like you and your ilk can rush off into the housing market that you cannot afford to be in. If our dollar were sitting at the 40 cent mark, the cost of your mortgage would be oh so much higher, but you would be wonderfully happy, because milk was cheap.

    The reason we are in the shitter is because we are spending more than we earn, that is again, because idiots like yourself have bought over-priced houses, big screen plasma tv’s and so on – shit that you could never afford. You are therefore relying on WFF, interest free student loans, kiwisaver subsidies et al. to keep your heads above water. All funded by financially prudent people like myself, who have very few ways to game the system. My best option is to offshore my earnings, which I do, because I am sick to fucking death of seeing useless irresponsible cunts living off my hard earned.

    After the shit we have been through in the South Island, I struggle to see how you bastards can hold to the crap that you do, why don’t you all f@ck off to Australia?.

    Actually, it is you and your ilk again who need to fuck off to Australia. It is the ones like yourself, who are always saying it is time to go, who would get the fright of their fucking lives when they realised that Australia, with all its bureaucracy, is more communist than China. You will learn very quickly that the cost of living for the average cafe worker etc. in Oz, means you will be in equally bad financial straits over there as you are here. It is these idiots who truly think they will be better off in Oz that we need to be shot of, it’s the productive engineers and scientists who we need to keep.

    You will also find that Australia is a damn sight more right leaning than NZ, even Unions in Oz are against the ETS… but that doesn’t fit the agenda of the lying left does it!

    Typical selfish right wing pricks.

    Selfish, because I believe you have to have some personal responsibility for your situation? I realise that people in Christchurch who are affected by the earthquake need lots of help, but this is not you…. you’re just saying this for purely emotional purposes, aren’t you, you contemptible cunt. You see, some of have actually done a lot for people from Christchurch, such as housing family, assisting with the clean-up, donating money, financially supporting family etc. but we don’t need the recognition, or to grandstand other peoples issues as our own.

    So, if you really want, I’ll pay for your flights, but it will be a one way ticket, and I don’t want to ever see your moaning ass back in NZ.

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  116. elscorcho (151 comments) says:

    “elscorcho this is the second time you’ve raised this angle. Yes no argument it’s true, but why is it so significant to you? Do you see it as hypocritical? As irreconcilable? As contradictory? As all three? If so, why? As I say, I have no argument as to its truth, you’re right on that.”

    How can you claim to be “tough on crime” and “pro security” if you don’t make your wallets match your words?
    I was a rightist for a long time until I realised that throughout history, so-called bleeding-liberal-leftist governments have actually been the only governments that fund defence and police forces properly.

    Then I realised- rightists don’t actually believe in defence, they believe in keeping themselves safe and they can’t be fucked to care whether others are safe as well.

    Proof = Key’s demolition job on NZDF last year (which was the most inherently illogical review ever, considering its basis was efficiency not effectiveness) and his slash job on NZ Pol this year.

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  117. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    mattyroo, you’re dead right there. That’s why I asked Shunda to state clearly of what he is arguing about. He is unclear of what his rants about. He never stated one single argument here. I hope he can argue of the increasing govt debt, but not. He doesn’t connect the danger of the accumulation about the govt debt to downsizing the govt size or spending, for example. He is just arguing like a headless chicken, not knowing what he is on about.

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  118. mattyroo (957 comments) says:

    Shunda barunda said:

    The Maori party are no more racist than the rash Brash.

    Please supply a racist quote from Mr. Brash.

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  119. elscorcho (151 comments) says:

    “My best option is to offshore my earnings, which I do, because I am sick to fucking death of seeing useless irresponsible cunts living off my hard earned.”

    That’s petty treason. If you put your own wealth ahead of the country, you are a traitor – end of topic.
    Rightists are ALWAYS the same. they’ll move to Australia to make few $, they’ll offshore their business to save a few $, because they always put their OWN interests ahead of the good of the country

    In the old days, rightism was the same as conservatism – and no conservative would have abandoned their own country for a few dollars. ever. a conservative would have lived in a gutter and eaten scraps before he would have done something harmful to his own country.

    Rightists are the epitome of treason and anti-patriotism.

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  120. mattyroo (957 comments) says:

    Pete George said:

    That’s not right, one thing helping the current accounts look not quite so bad is returns on the Cullen fund investment.

    Jesus fucking wept! Now I have read it all, if the time worn fence sitter believes that we are being saved by the returns on the Cullen fund, then it’s no wonder this country is fucked, with that amount of economic literacy.

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  121. Nookin (3,030 comments) says:

    “Rightists are ALWAYS the same. they’ll move to Australia to make few $, ”
    Quite a few Maori in Syndey. A lot of NZ shearers and miners in Aussie. They all rightists and traitors? Or are you talking thru a hole in your arse?

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  122. publicwatchdog (2,093 comments) says:

    mattyroo (568) Says:
    May 13th, 2011 at 7:44 pm
    My best option is to offshore my earnings, which I do, because I am sick to fucking death of seeing useless irresponsible cunts living off my hard earned.”
    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Harsh, but understandable abuse of all those lazy corporate welfare beneficiary bums ‘matttyroo’ ;)

    Cheers!

    Penny Bright
    http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

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  123. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    elschorcho said…
    If you put your own wealth ahead of the country

    That’s how we’re suppose to live our lives. Yourself first then country second. Communist countries put their countries first then its citizens second. I bet you do like that don’t you?

    You also said…
    Rightists are the epitome of treason and anti-patriotism.

    Jesus! You need some serious re-education. Starts from individual rights first, then work your way from there. It is simple really. The notion of having rights belong to the masses (country) and not yourself, violates that very principle.

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  124. Nookin (3,030 comments) says:

    Hi, Penny. Are you going to answer the questions posted at 11.51 or are they best asked at a meet the candidates evening?

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  125. berend (1,630 comments) says:

    Shunda barunda, replying to “On the other hand, little has change since National gained power. Most of the policies the comrades instituted remain untouched,” wrote:

    What utter unadulterated bullshit!!
    What the hell are all the henny pennies on the left so upset about then?

    Maybe I just note that you didn’t mention any policy the left disagreed with? And may I note secondly that the lefties are only upset if John Key takes a helicopter or gets some protection when threatened?

    What real policies are the left upset about? The borrowing of $380 million a week? ETS? Keeping student loans free? WWF?

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  126. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    My best option is to offshore my earnings, which I do, because I am sick to fucking death of seeing useless irresponsible cunts living off my hard earned.”

    You really are a treacherous traitorous piece of shit aren’t you!

    You rant about me having a plasma tv, huge mortgage, bla bla fucking bla, and you aren’t even contributing what you are bloody well supposed to.

    For your information sunshine, I don’t have a mortgage, I payed it off 2 months ago, I also don’t own a plasma TV and don’t have a single effing hire purchase to by name.
    And what do I do? I run a small business, I pay every damned cent I owe the IRD and run everything by the friggin book.
    And I am lucky if I get the average wage equivalent at the end of the year.
    So fuck you and your preachy bullshit, you couldn’t give a rats arse about anything but your back pocket and how much your precious milk is selling for while you fill the river I occasionally like to fish with bloody cow shit.

    You bastards are no more ‘NZ’ than Helen Clark as far as I am concerned, you are always pinning for something we are not and always taking a ‘what’s best for me is best for the country’ bullshit line.

    If you can’t find another reason to like living here then you should piss off, John Key is doing ok, and he is sure as hell doing a better job of it than Helen Clark would have over the past couple of very difficult years.

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  127. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    That’s how we’re suppose to live our lives. Yourself first then country second.

    Bullshit!! You can’t look after yourself fist without first looking to the community that protects your self interest.

    Your attitude is no less naive than the crap the left spout and is just as destructive to our society.

    That is the problem with NZ, to many selfish pricks concerned with nothing but their own little universe propped up by the rest of us.

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  128. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Shunda said…
    You rant about me having a plasma tv, huge mortgage, bla bla fucking bla, and you aren’t even contributing what you are bloody well supposed to.

    You’re still not putting forward an argument. Contribute to what?

    You said…
    You can’t look after yourself fist without first looking to the community that protects your self interest.

    In what exactly the community is going to do for me? Pay my mortgage? Give me a free car?

    I now see that you’re a complete dumbfuck.

    In what way that you protect others in your community’s self interests? Fuck all I suppose.

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  129. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    All funded by financially prudent people like myself, who have very few ways to game the system.

    Yeah right.

    You have to laugh when you see farmer Johnson’s son at university claiming a full student allowance while the son of Johny average is ineligible.

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  130. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    mattyroo, maybe you should brush up on your economic literacy.

    Analysis of the accounts showed the reported deficit of $3.3 billion, which was $3.8 billion lower than forecast, would have been much higher were it not for significant unforeseen gains in Crown investments through the New Zealand Superannuation Fund and ACC.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/159915/govt-accounts-give-english-cause

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  131. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    In what way that you protect others in your community’s self interests? Fuck all I suppose.

    By raising my kids right, paying my taxes, involvement in community groups, fostering a respect for the environment, helping to enhance recreation, you know, all the stuff people not thinking about what bloody Aussies are getting in their weekly pay packet do.

    Stop thinking about what you don’t have and open your eyes to the glorious country we have here.

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  132. elscorcho (151 comments) says:

    “That’s how we’re suppose to live our lives. Yourself first then country second. Communist countries put their countries first then its citizens second. I bet you do like that don’t you?”

    Here’s the difference between me and you.
    I despise John Key. I see him as an idiot and a fool.
    However, he is the legitimate ruler of NZ. If he says ‘elscorcho, fix bayonets and charge’, I will do it. Every single socialist out there will do it, despite their hate of Key, because they have patriotism in their veins
    Rightists will worry about their bank balance and personal safety first.

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  133. mattyroo (957 comments) says:

    Pete, you should understand the difference between ‘book value’ and ‘realized value’ before you start trying to educate me with your version of economics…

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  134. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    You see, some of have actually done a lot for people from Christchurch, such as housing family, assisting with the clean-up, donating money, financially supporting family etc. but we don’t need the recognition, or to grandstand other peoples issues as our own.

    What the hell would you know Matty, you self righteous little prick.

    I tell you what, I will donate all the money that Pike River coal owes me to the Christchurch earthquake fund (when and if I get it), in the meantime I will try and continue to put food on the table for my kids so rich bastards like yourself don’t get too inconvenienced by lower class scum like myself.

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  135. Rex Widerstrom (5,253 comments) says:

    elscorcho asks:

    Do you want me to pull out the ol’ Strategos reports?
    Or the Kerr quote (which I have in an endnote DB somewhere)

    Well I certainly would. Not because I disbelieve you, but because I wasn’t smart enough to file them away as you’ve done and I’d quite like to have the references handy in future. TIA.

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  136. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Shunda said…
    By raising my kids right, paying my taxes, involvement in community groups, fostering a respect for the environment,…

    Uh-oh, that confirmed to me that you’re really dumb. Raising your kids right has got nothing to involve the community. Paying taxes has got nothing to do with the community. Involving in the community is something we all do and has got nothing to do with rising Govt debt (unless it is Govt funded), and it is something that can wreck havoc for economies around the world. Heavy debt can lead to economic collapse, and I’m not surprised that illiterates like you don’t understand that economic fact. This is exactly what Don Brash is trying to address. Are you so dumb to understand that?

    So, I say, STFU because the more you say, the more everyone here can see that you’re completely dumb.

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  137. rakuraku (162 comments) says:

    How come Dr Don has suddenly come up with all the answers to solve New Zealand’s overseas debt problems, how come he didn’t sort it out when he was Governor of the Reseve Bank, Dr Don is an opportunist appealing to the religous fundamentalists and the rednecks in this country.

    NZ has progressively gone down the gurgler since the 1970′s

    Maori are an integral part of this country’s history and as much as alot of immigrants do not like to hear they are not going to go away. There are legitimate grievances which have not been addressed if all the Maori Land sales and confiscations were legitimate and legal why are the Maori people still unhappy.

    Most Maori I know are not racist towards immigrants however a number of NZ people are racist towards Maori.

    Maybe Dr Don should outline specifically where Maori are getting an unfair advantage.

    Maori have always had trouble borrowing money to develop their resources and paid a premium to the banks for the priviledge of borrowing money.

    Why are New Zealanders not taught New Zealand History from 1600 thru to the Modern Day, if we were people would understand why Maori feel a little aggreived in this country.

    However Maori got off lightly compared to the Scottish and the Aborigines in Australia.

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  138. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    Uh-oh, that confirmed to me that you’re really dumb. Raising your kids right has got nothing to involve the community. Paying taxes has got nothing to do with the community. Involving in the community is something we all do and has got nothing to do with rising Govt debt (unless it is Govt funded), and it is something that can wreck havoc for economies around the world. Heavy debt can lead to economic collapse, and I’m not surprised that illiterates like you don’t understand that economic fact. This is exactly what Don Brash is trying to address. Are you so dumb to understand that?

    Falafulu Fisi, I say, STFU because the more you say, the more everyone here can see that you’re completely dumb.

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  139. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    How come Dr Don has suddenly come up with all the answers to solve New Zealand’s overseas debt problems, how come he didn’t sort it out when he was Governor of the Reseve Bank, Dr Don is an opportunist appealing to the religous fundamentalists and the rednecks in this country.

    I would substitute “religious fundamentalists” with ‘right wing fundamentalists’ but red necks is absolutely spot on going from some of the comments here.

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  140. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Shunda, how about you go and rent a room together with Penny Bright? You know, 2 dumb people can produce intelligent children.

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  141. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Rakuraku said…
    Dr Don is an opportunist appealing to the religous fundamentalists and the rednecks in this country.

    Sorry Raku. I’m a black motherfucker as you too (assuming you’re a maori), but I believe that Dr Brash appeals to intelligent people, regardless of color and that includes me. Got that?

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  142. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    but I believe that Dr Brash appeals to intelligent people

    More like self centred baby boomers with a bit of cash, a hidden contempt for poor ‘browns’, and a desire to exploit the working class.

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  143. grumpyoldhori (2,410 comments) says:

    So why are you ACT types not raving that you will not go into coalition with the Nats if they are a bunch of socialists

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  144. SPC (5,333 comments) says:

    The real question about Don Brash’s credibility goes right back to the 80′s with the end of currency controls and banks borrowing offshore to finance local home mortgages – that this would create local asset bubbles in the absence of a CGT was patently obvious, yet there was no fine tuning of the system to minimise this impact (such as moves to require a minimum level of local long term core funding of lending etc).

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  145. The Silent Majority (82 comments) says:

    “More like self centred baby boomers with a bit of cash, a hidden contempt for poor ‘browns’, and a desire to exploit the working class.”

    Oh Shunda barunda are you referring to those hard working Kiwis of all ethnic backgrounds, the ones who take the risks, borrow money from the banks to start up businesses and provide employment for others?

    You really have a warped view of many, many of your fellow New Zealander’s. You should get out more and see how the real world is actually working.

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  146. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    The real question about Don Brash’s credibility goes right back to the 80′s with the end of currency controls and banks borrowing offshore to finance local home mortgages – that this would create local asset bubbles in the absence of a CGT was patently obvious, yet there was no fine tuning of the system to minimise this impact (such as moves to require a minimum level of local long term core funding of lending etc).

    So how does Brash’s role as RBG come into this, within the period he was?

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  147. SPC (5,333 comments) says:

    He became RB Governor in 1988 (until 2002). He had nothing to contribute to deal with this problem for the following 14 years – nor any public comments since on the problem of our property market and high related private foreign debt.

    One could note the over-reliance on a high OCR to counter inflation also damaged the productive sector (over-valued dollar etc) and left many with property landlord as their entrepreneurial activity of choice.

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  148. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    You really have a warped view of many, many of your fellow New Zealander’s. You should get out more and see how the real world is actually working.

    Oh I see it all right, you see, I live in a poor socio economic area and understand what dole bludger’s are really like, but also understand what people who have a legitimate excuse struggle with. I also see what the rich are like and also lived among them, I also work with, for, and among these people too.

    And what do I see? an even mix of selfish scum at both ends. Like a local cop said to me recently, there aint no wrong side of the tracks any more, little rich kids account for just as much crime.

    And why is this? because of the self centred scum bag wealthy parents. The only thing worse than a dole bludging criminal with low self esteem is the child (or parents) of a middle to upper-class family with a superiority complex and the means to finance it.

    A break down in core values and a hideous emerging mid – upper class is what is wrong with this country, Hone and Dr Brash represent them well.

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  149. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    I believe that Dr Brash appeals to intelligent people

    That’s a pointless claim, sounds like the old “I think I’m intelligent, he appeals to me, so he must appeal to intelligent people” trick.

    I’m sure he does appeal to intelligent people but I’m also sure he appeals to some non-intelligent people too, and there will be intelligent people he doesn’t appeal to. Not that it’s provable, polls don’t include an IQ test.

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  150. rakuraku (162 comments) says:

    SPC at least we have got someone on this blog making a rational statement, the problem in this country is we have politicans and their research boffins who make decisions on an experimental basis and the taxpayer picks up the tab.

    Leaky Homes the Government changed the building codes when we had perfectly good ones in place, they approved materials and building systems which were unproven and had already proved to be problematic in Canada, i have been told that the Building Industry Suppliers put pressure on the Government of the day to change the Building Codes to bring down building costs-yeah right-now look at the mess we have.

    I hear today we are going to train more people in the building trades for the Christchurch rebuild, smart move getting rid of the apprentice schemes 20 years ago and putting our youth on the dole.

    At the end of the day we need to educate and train our youth for the future development of NZ, this dumbing down of the educational and job training over the past 20 years has led us to an alcohol drug fuelled youth who struggle to identify where they and the country are heading.

    If our politicans don’t know the road to recovery how do our youth, chasing the big $ is not the magic answer we need educated youth with a sense of pride in themselves and the country, forget the racist bigotry and get this country going forward.

    Lets start with education and health and get the race based arguments out of the equation, most Maori people have a greatter % of foreign blood in them than they do Maori however they choose to identify with their Maori geneology. Hence maybe we should be defining Maori into subsets like Dalmatian Maori/Scottish Maori/Dutch Maori/Welsh Maori/European Maori.

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  151. The Silent Majority (82 comments) says:

    “A break down in core values and a hideous emerging mid – upper class is what is wrong with this country, Hone and Dr Brash represent them well.’

    Don’t worry Shunda barunda, more and more of that hideous mid-upper class are leaving New Zealand, so it may not be long before you can shed the shackles of envy and hate (not good for your health, you know). You can live in your paradise, content in the knowledge that you may be poor but at least no-one else has anything either.

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  152. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    He became RB Governor in 1988 (until 2002). He had nothing to contribute to deal with this problem for the following 14 years

    I recall 1988-2002 as successful prosperous benign times relative to what we are just beginning to experience and also relative to the boom times which accelerated after 2002. I was too busy having a good time then to wonder who the hell was responsible for it.

    – nor any public comments since on the problem of our property market and high related private foreign debt.

    Really?

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  153. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    That’s a pointless claim, sounds like the old “I think I’m intelligent, he appeals to me, so he must appeal to intelligent people” trick.

    I’m sure he does appeal to intelligent people but I’m also sure he appeals to some non-intelligent people too, and there will be intelligent people he doesn’t appeal to. Not that it’s provable, polls don’t include an IQ test.

    Pete, why is Brash viewed as poisonous by the left?

    Not him as a human, but what he stands for, whatever the left think “that” is.

    What is “that” e.g. is it class envy, is it heartfelt resistance, what is it?

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  154. SPC (5,333 comments) says:

    So you missed the need for the Richardson budget, the high unemployment and that this 1988-2002 period was when we fell behind Oz the most.

    The post 2002 boom came courtesy of cheap and easy global credit … the cause of the GFC and our own asset bubble …

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  155. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    Don’t worry Shunda barunda, more and more of that hideous mid-upper class are leaving New Zealand, so it may not be long before you can shed the shackles of envy and hate (not good for your health, you know). You can live in your paradise, content in the knowledge that you may be poor but at least no-one else has anything either.

    People that abandon ship don’t deserve to be here anyway, this is not a friggin rugby team, leaving NZ is irrational in the extreme.

    And poor? you really don’t get it do you, there is wealth in this country that you will probably never understand, I’ll give you a tip, it isn’t measured in your bank balance that you are so concerned about.

    The people that should leave NZ are the people that have the Gold Coast as their no 1 holiday destination. Please make it permanent, and don’t let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.

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  156. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    So you missed the need for the Richardson budget, the high unemployment and that this 1988-2002 period was when we fell behind Oz the most.

    What happened back then, SPC? Why did Richardson need to bring out such a very ruthless budget? Is it cause Liarbore, a serious political party, believe the way to success is to cook the books and fuck the ground for the incoming? This is what Liarbore always does. I’m curious to understand why this was the very background to Ruth’s first budget, that’s all.

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  157. SPC (5,333 comments) says:

    Brash was part of the background (and a leading associate to mismangement by government) to the economic failure of the 88-2002 years – the current government at least realises that with its focus on the property market and private sector debt from this source and Bollard has at least belatedly improved regulation of banking credit sources and called for an alternative to base and blunt reliance on the OCR to counter inflation.

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  158. niggly (799 comments) says:

    Puleeze Guys! Lighten up a bit and stop the personal insults towards each other, eh!

    Regarding the topic of this thread, both “sides” so to speak (put simply, there are more than two sides of course) both have valid views (and some simplistic views).

    Regarding the topic of this thread again, no doubt Don’s and his advisor’s will be happy with the amount of debate (and publicity) this has generated, no doubt they will be smiling.

    But they miss the point, the issue is bigger than capturing the news headlines for a day or two. The bigger point is a number of things but it includes:

    * The fact that this is providing an “own goal” that Labour will cherish (and which had been sleep walking to defeat over the last 2.5 years). Imagine the unimaginable occurring as a result of this debate – no doubt right now that H1 & H2 will be celebrating with another $200 bottle of Chardonnay over in NY! That Mallard will be getting a hard-on at the sight of the Kiwiblog centre-right and right fighting each other! That Shane Jones is probably already celibrating this occassion at the Penthouse Suite (well, of course) at the local 5 Star Hotel and is perusing the inhouse video schedule as we speak! Cunliffe will be practising his speach to Morning Report in front of his mirror all weekend! Goff won’t be sweating this weekend fearing bad publicity for a change! They are celebrating this “fracture” as it gives them slight hope they can smell a possible Grand Left Coalition victory at the next election! And Oh yuckkk and urgggh, the latter and former sights are something that is too yucky to contemplate, yet this is happening as a result!

    So two things from me:

    1. That Don and his advisors, minimise own goal destruction by taking their “clever” (well, it did generate support and debate, eh) letter concept, and work on similar letters addressed to Labour, The Greens, Grandpa Anderton, NZF etc!

    Serious! If they are that clever (which in theory they are), then go to it boys! We need consistency please!

    2. As the likes of Reid said, Don and his advisor’s, forget the Race Card angle, the economy is meant to be the issue right? So let’s stop the Race distractions, as it plays into the hard-left’s hands and these militant arse-wipes aren’t going to be stopped by Don and his advisor’s slogans and then Don and his advisor’s are too pussy like to take the militant’s on to counter-attack. The result? The hard-left militant’s control the debate in the media whilst Don and his advisor’s look the other way (until provoked). So if people like John Ansell are meant to be NZ’s current greatest Public Persuasion tactician, then roll up your sleeves and also get busy influencing middle (and lower class) NZ, on why if National’s solutions are weak, then demonstrate to the simple folk of NZ what is wrong with the Labour alternative. Otherwise splitting National’s vote is not a good tactic for the longer term (more than 3 years into the future etc). If Ansell and co are worth their money, they would be up for countering the great Labour/Green spin-machine, the very thing that has kept NZ back in terms of properity, and the same spin-machine that pokes fun mercilessly at Don, to the extent the wider NZ public has bought the spin. C’mon Don and his advisors – you must be up to this surely :-)

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  159. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    the economic failure of the 88-2002 years

    There were a number SPC but as I currently understand the biggest was when Greenspan dropped the interest rates to zero which transferred the dot-bomb bubble losses into the property market instead of working their way out of the system.

    What else had a bigger effect in that period?

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  160. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    why is Brash viewed as poisonous by the left?

    I think the devout left think he’s poisonous for reasons, like thinking he has an agenda to sell off everything to his rich mates, he has connections to international “take over the world” organisations, that sort of thing, or that’s the line they spin.

    Don’t know about all the tending lefties, various reasons, I can only speak for myself, I’m a left-right-in-ist.

    I have mixed feelings about Brash. I understand and agree with some of what he says on the economy, but I don’t think trying to go too small government privatising is realistically sustainable in our political environment.

    I don’t think his approach to race issues is very helpful. “One law for all” is a slogan that no one seems to explain what it’s supposed to mean.

    I don’t really trust him. He has an unreliable history with things like “gone by lunchtime” and the EB connection, but in particular, he has rolled English, he has rolled the whole Act party, so who can trust his motives? Will he try and take back National?

    And I have too many uncertainties about whether he is acting on his own and has some backers or he is a front for those backers – I don’t believe in the conspiracy stuff, but people after power and money do all sorts of things to try and achieve what they want.

    Have to see how things go I guess – but this letter seems to be an organised attempt at publicity and trying to manouevre Key and National. Brash will need allies somewhere along the line if he wants to achieve his aims, but he seems to be shitting on people on his own side of the political divide.

    My sympathy for his motives may change after the budget, it depends on what National do, but more importantly what they signal and ask for a mandate for – that is, whether they seem on track or need nudging.

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  161. Bed Rater (239 comments) says:

    It’s the kind of thread that gets no moderation…. too much tonsil tapping currently.

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  162. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    My sympathy for his motives may change after the budget,

    Do you really think Brash doesn’t know what is in the budget?

    There is more than one blue ‘snake in the grass’.

    There are far more sinister things going on here, and there are clearly knives aimed at Keys back.

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  163. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    I don’t know what’s in the budget. If National sound like they are going to push forward and do enough I’ll keep backing them, for now. If they don’t then a bit more pressure might help.

    It’s hard to know if it’s co-operation or competition – Brash can give the impression he’s in it for payback for being rolled by Key and envy that English got to do the numbers he wanted control of.

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  164. thedavincimode (6,512 comments) says:

    “My best option is to offshore my earnings, which I do, because I am sick to fucking death of seeing useless irresponsible cunts living off my hard earned.”

    matty, don’t you think that outing yourself as a tax evader kind of undermines your credibility on this one?

    Hard to see any convergence of views on this thread. As for those that say there is no difference between National and Labour, well I assume you are talking just about the economy specifically and not about policies outside the direct economic sphere, but those that indirectly contribute to economic growth such as the securities regime, resource management red tape and education.

    But for those on the tough love side of the argument, I still haven’t seen any reasoning or explanation as to how Don Brash’s policies would stick past one term or National would get re-elected if they were adopted this time round. You all know very well where the swinging vote would go if tough love is adopted; history shows that it doesn’t work and moreover, it has even less chance of working in an MMP environment.

    In that regard there is no point in comparing the political life of previous reform (Douglas then Richardson) under a FPP system with prospective life under MMP. In fact, my believe is that it was Richardson’s reform and her tough love policies that lead people to vote for MMP in the first place. The government of that day turned a completely deaf ear to its traditional support base that was sufferring. People nowadays have become even more reliant on government courtesy of Klerk and co. WFF has created a new generation of beneficiaries. Student loans have created a new generation of self-interested greedies. There has been substantial erosion of the culture of personal responsibility as a consequence of a Klerk and co deliberately engineering social and economic dependence on central government.

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  165. Banana Llama (1,105 comments) says:

    National will just use ACT as a stalking horse even if they have 10% of the vote, i don’t see any fundamental changes occurring although plenty of hot air will be made.

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  166. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Well none of the issues in Don’s letter are new.
    We have been debating and criticizing these issues and lack of response since the last election. Not withstanding the earthquakes which for most part are insured there is nothing really new in the world of NZ that wasn’t apparent before that election. Indeed more than a few things have actually gone in NZ’s favour. We have record export prices, record demand for product which exporters have rushed to fulfill but all that is negated by the Nats. lack of desire to deal with the fundamental monetary structure and freedoms that NZ needs. We have continued with a command and control society that is constantly expecting business to carry the can. We have failed miserably to remove the barriers to peoples work and inspiration and we have failed to harness the power of entrepreneurial people.
    We remain dedicated to unionist and public service structures that prevent better development of enterprise.
    We can’t decide to sell old assets and create new ones, we continue to subsidize someone else.s preferences, in other words we have not moved one full stop from socializing NZ.

    This despite the National Parties supposed reason for being which they have conveniently decided to suppress of late.

    So no one should be surprised that some in (and now out) the National Party and their supporters should be taking a tougher stance.
    Being nice is great, we all like that especially after the last nine years but hey that won’t dig us out of a ditch, and its a ditch that we are in. ( As a matter of comparison what is a ditch? Well its a long grave without ends. Think about it.)

    Lack of clear goals leads to lack of leadership and the goal of matching Australia has been like many of Helen Clarks spoken goals, forgotten like last weeks press statement.
    This is a disgrace and allows the daily hum drum noise and nonsense to transcend our real goals. Known as distraction.

    CEO.s are there to ensure that this doesn’t happen. Key is the CEO of NZ and we now have these goals ignored indeed dismissed in the rush to be popular. What does that tell us of his focus on the goals?

    Today’s Stuff has an article from a gentleman of 91 years of age. A gentleman who fought at Crete and who after all these years of staying quiet and remaining loyal to the people who were his leaders at the time, has decided that the time is now to tell the real story of why Crete was lost and so many Kiwi’s were killed or captured and imprisoned.
    Indecisive leadership, based on bad information and a fear by their leader of attacking in the dark. Failure to consult and listen to what needed to be done and failure to execute.

    Its makes for an interesting read and an interesting comparison to our current dilemma.

    Fortune favours the Brave.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5003191/Officer-breaks-rank-over-the-Battle-of-Crete

    NZ National Party Founding Principles 1936
    “To promote good citizenship and self-reliance; to combat communism and socialism; to maintain freedom of contract; to encourage private enterprise; to safeguard individual rights and the privilege of ownership; to oppose interference by the State in business, and State control of industry”.

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  167. Richard Hurst (750 comments) says:

    Only 166 comments? I would expected 566.

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  168. mattyroo (957 comments) says:

    matty, don’t you think that outing yourself as a tax evader kind of undermines your credibility on this one?

    I’m no tax evader. I use entirely legitimate means to structure my affairs. I also pay a very significant amount of tax in NZ, but that is not what this is about….

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  169. mattyroo (957 comments) says:

    Shunda said:

    I tell you what, I will donate all the money that Pike River coal owes me to the Christchurch earthquake fund (when and if I get it), in the meantime I will try and continue to put food on the table for my kids so rich bastards like yourself don’t get too inconvenienced by lower class scum like myself.

    See shunda, this is why you’re quite rightly a dumb fuck. Nobody wants you to, or expects you to, donate your hard earned to the Christchurch earthquake. I want you to continue feeding your kids, and doing the best by them. One day, when you can afford to, then you may be in a position to donate to worthy causes, until that time, don’t.

    See, us that can afford to just get on quietly doing what we do, not grandstanding, not donating to causes to ease our conscience, or because we feel we have to, it’s just what we do. Where as you and toad would rather take our money by compulsion, and then spread it to “worthy” causes. That only gets our backs up and makes us do things like offshoring income. But you’ll never understand the perverse consequences of what you advocate, because your pathological hatred of anybody successful blinkers you.

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  170. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Yo – matty the rough-neck. You ain’t on the rig now cobber. Slow your roll.

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  171. mattyroo (957 comments) says:

    Also shunda, I’m still waiting for you to direct me to the racist statements of Mr. Brash.

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  172. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    Where as you and toad would rather take our money by compulsion, and then spread it to “worthy” causes.

    Well Matty, you are quite mistaken, I am not a Green party supporter. You misunderstand a concern for the environment of the country I love as support for a socialist environmental movement? typical of your ilk for sure, but still unacceptably ignorant.

    That only gets our backs up and makes us do things like offshoring income.

    And that only gets my back up, because I will tell you this: even with WFF that I receive, I guarantee you that I am contributing a far greater proportion of my income as tax than you are, not to mention the money I save various govt departments by operating my business with good old fashioned integrity and honesty.

    But you’ll never understand the perverse consequences of what you advocate, because your pathological hatred of anybody successful blinkers you.

    What crap, I am inspired by successful wealthy people with integrity, and try to emulate them. But I am appalled by the greedy, selfish, whining rich and their contempt for all under them.
    I have had rich clients that have absolutely appalling ethics, I have learnt that if they have a lot of money they will invariably be more likely to be difficult.

    One chap (dairy farmer) refused to pay me what was the equivalent of 33% of my income for that year for 6 months, this after I worked my arse off and completed the job with the satisfaction of the clients.

    Another wealthy Christchurch businessman decided he wouldn’t pay part of my bill at all because he had “run out of money for this project” and had the damned cheek to say “don’t take it personally, it’s just business”. Screw that, these bastards and their sense of entitlement is far worse than anything a hardened beneficiary has ever done, as these rich pricks see themselves as entitled to my labor which is eminently worse. If it wasn’t for WFF I would have gone broke because of the lack of ethics of the wealthy, what great f@ckin values.

    So don’t preach to me Matty, I have first hand experience of both sides of the tracks and know very well that the rot is at the top and the bottom.

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  173. reid (15,902 comments) says:

    Shunda I too know a handful of multi-millionaires and none of them are as you describe. While stereotypes are useful tools they are of use only to the extent to which they apply.

    I have observed there seems to be a certain ratio between the degree of fanaticism one has on the political spectrum and the degree to which one conflates a stereotypical polarity as being the general attitude of that segment one is analysing.

    Like Hone thinking everyone is racist or like the Greens and Unionists thinking the first thing most employers want to do every single morning is rush out and find some poor innocent worker to tread on.

    The more fanatic you are, the more you conflate the polarity with the centre and consequently the more your analysis becomes riddled with factual errors which you don’t pick up on cause of your fanaticism. It’s quite interesting watching it happen, kinda like a twisted, montrous version of Swan Lake with the ugliest, fattest and clumsiest ballet dancers one has ever seen, on a rickety stage with the props falling down.

    I know you don’t think like that Shunda, BTW. I’m just saying.

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  174. elscorcho (151 comments) says:

    Here’s the reference for Roundtable comments on defence…
    It’s a story in the Evening Post from 15 April 1992 by Roger Foley entitled “Cooper critical of Roundtable’s defence idea”

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  175. elscorcho (151 comments) says:

    Strategos (Act) report 1
    New Zealand Defence Resource Management Review 1988, Government Printer, Wellington, 1989.

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  176. elscorcho (151 comments) says:

    Strategos (Act) report 2
    The New Zealand Police: Resource Management Review, 1989 (Strategos Consulting Ltd, 1989

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  177. Rex Widerstrom (5,253 comments) says:

    elscorcho: Much obliged, thank you.

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  178. Rex Widerstrom (5,253 comments) says:

    Viking2 quoted from:

    NZ National Party Founding Principles 1936

    Are these available online? National’s own site seems strangely silent on them. I’d like to assemble a dossier of the founding principles of the various parties, yet National seem determined to makes theirs hard to find.

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  179. Henry64 (80 comments) says:

    ACT are an extreme and racist party fullstop. Labour and others are too wrapped up in throwing money at people to ‘solve’ all the ills in society and have created massive welfare dependency.

    I have no major problems with what National have done in their three years in power. They have largely kept their promises and have not made any massive changes. the principles are clear to me – more money in the hand to people to decide how to spend/invest it or whatever.

    One thing I would say though is that my situation is largely improved by my own actions and decisions – slavishly relying on a political party to improve your lot in life is just plain dumb.

    NZers must want to remain ‘poor’ – you can’t mine, you can’t drill, you can’t irrigate, you can’t do anything to improve agricultural and/or economic output because of a wide raft or reasons.

    I think we suffer from analysis/paralysis and the fact remains that you can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.

    A government must govern. If we had a 4 year parliamentary term perhaps our governments would do a) less social engineering and b) less populist policy making.

    One can live in hope. ACT and Mana are the extreme opposites of politics in NZ and deserve each other. they can shout at each other at the fringes while the rest of us in the middle make our choices.

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  180. slightlyrighty (2,496 comments) says:

    Here is a great riposte from David Beatson, who was part of the PM’s office under Jim Bolger.

    Dear Don

    I was not surprised by your decision to resign your membership of the National Party. The only surprise was that you formally advised the party leader of your resignation after you had already secured the leadership of another political party. Mind you, even that’s not so surprising, given you only joined ACT after you’d ousted Rodney.

    It was clever to let John know about your belated resignation in an open letter that you so generously shared with the public of New Zealand. Thank goodness, the gallery hacks fell for it. Otherwise, you would still be in the TV studios with Hone Harawira, arguing over who’s the biggest racist.

    You will need to talk to John Boscawen though. He nearly let the cat out of the bag in the Herald, when he talked about giving National notice that ACT will take a more aggressive approach under your leadership. Talk about stealing your thunder! As for his announcement that ACT wasn’t going to be the “rich pricks” party any more, where does he think the campaign funding comes from? I hope that you and he can sort out which one of you is standing in Tamaki soon.

    As for Rodney, who does he think he is? Fancy spilling it on The Nation that he told you and John Banks that you needed to join the party before you could take over the leadership and Banks could stand in Epsom. Well, you proved him wrong on the leadership, but he goes on saying that Banks “isn’t an ACT man”. So, why are you letting a “toxic” Hide hang on as a Minister when you said he should resign and retire gracefully, like you did in 2006? Can’t you just boot him out of ACT for defying his leader and calling the party into disrepute? I hope you sort out who’s standing in Epsom soon.

    You can count on your old soul-mate, Sir Roger Douglas. You and he go back a long way. Douglas and other ACT people were quite supportive when you started your campaign to roll Bill English and take over National’s leadership. You share a view that there is unfinished business to be addressed. You also share the experience of being disowned by your original parties of choice. But Douglas has announced his retirement at the end of this term. Who will replace him?

    Why don’t you put your own house in order before you tell John Key what to do?

    Now, back to your letter, Don. The world has changed dramatically since 2005– but you have not. The Brash analysis today is still firmly rooted in the Brash prescription of yesterday. The most significant difference is that your venom is now being directed at National under Key and English, instead of Labour under Clark and Cullen.

    You suggest that National voters have been ignored and would support the changes you advocate: cut wasteful government spending, reintroduce lower youth rates, scrap the emission trading scheme, scale back superannuation entitlement, ignore treaty obligations on consultation and representation, close the Trans-Tasman wage gap, and make no compromise with other parties – except ACT.

    The worst feature of your analysis of the Key government’s performance is that it makes no allowance for the fact that they have spent the last two and a half years holding together a fractious and fragile coalition and coping with the impacts of an inherited home-grown recession, major collapses in the non-bank finance sector, the meltdown of important global financial markets, and the near destruction of the country’s second largest city.

    Why did you think the government could cut its way out of a recession?

    Contrary to your analysis, there is plenty of evidence that wasteful government spending has been and is being cut. There is also evidence that National is tackling some of the more difficult areas of spending in health, education and welfare, as well as some of the wacky taxation provisions that fuel over-investment in residential and commercial property and inflate property values. There is no evidence to support your assertion that current wage rates are causing the high rate of youth unemployment. You know our wages are low by comparison with Australia, and the rate of wage increases has been extremely restrained since 2008.

    In this week’s budget, the government promises announcements to constrain the entitlement of more affluent households to Working For Families tax credits, reduce its contribution to KiwSaver funds, increase the recovery of student loans, and initiate partial sales of state-owned assets.

    Most voters will applaud the fact that the Key government – unlike the government of your old soul-mate Roger Douglas – is seeking a mandate from voters before it implements major changes on sensitive issues. The polls indicate that National voters strongly support its approach.

    Where’s your evidence that National voters do not support the Key government’s approach?

    Remember that people don’t like unpleasant surprises. Douglas stalled and crashed the Lange government on the political reefs with his bulldozer drive for deregulation and a flat tax regime. Many National party colleagues – including your friend John Banks – rebelled against Ruth Richardson when she broke their party’s most solemn policy commitment to superannuitants in her relentless pursuit of economic purity. They took their revenge on Jim Bolger as soon as he gave them MMP and they dumped him when it wore him out. They endured nine-years of State expansion and patronage under Clark and Cullen in a period of sustained economic growth, but they weren’t so discontented that they would buy the Brash “Back to the 80’s – Iwi Kiwi” message in 2005.

    You remind us you lost the 2005 election by a narrow margin, but then you floundered in the mire of e-mail leaks from discontented elements of your own party, the Exclusive Brethren campaign controversy, and the Hollow Men fiasco until you bowed to the inevitable and stepped aside for John Key.

    Sorry Don, I have no doubt that you will recover the party vote ACT lost in its three years of living dangerously with Rodney Hide, but holding more than 5 percent with a campaign that’s based on attacking the only ally you are likely to have in the next Parliament looks like a suicide run to me.

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