More on the Hone by-election

May 2nd, 2011 at 9:20 am by David Farrar

A couple of commentators have said that the by-election is justified as Hone needs a new mandate, having left the Maori Party. Now I partly agree with this argument, but they miss a key point. If it was about a new mandate, then Hone could have called a by-election in February when he was pushed out of the Maori Party.

This is not about a mandate. It is about having greater taxpayer funding for the Mana Party.

Mind you part of me wants the Mana Party to do well. getting John Minto into Parliament will help the centre-right no end. And with Sue Bradford and Nandor Tanczos backing the Mana Party, you wonder what will happen with the Green Party vote.

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71 Responses to “More on the Hone by-election”

  1. Nookin (2,887 comments) says:

    “Mind you part of me wants the Mana Party to do well. getting John Minto into Parliament will help the centre-right no end. And with Sue Bradford and Nandor Tanczos backing the Mana Party, you wonder what will happen with the Green Party vote.”
    Frankly,as a taxpayer, having Minto in Parliament is not a price that I would willingly pay. The fact hat he, Unite and the other rabble of wreckers and haters support Hone is enough. We do not have to pay for the privilege on top.

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  2. Pete George (21,812 comments) says:

    If it was about a mandate Harawira would openly welcome the Maori Party standing a candidate against him.

    Nookin, if they can rustle up enough votes then Mana should be represented in parliament and we should pay like we do for everyone else, but we won’t know what will happen with that until November.

    Bradford and Tanczos were on NatRad this morning. Bradford said she joined Mana as a founding member in Saturday but didn’t know what the options for standing on the list go, she said at this stage only Harawira and Sykes were confirmed.

    Tanczos said he is still member of the Green Party and went to the lauch as an interested friend of Harawira.

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  3. Sam (493 comments) says:

    Perhaps Greens can become a Green party once the lw core migrate to the HH Party…? A true Green party would be welcome in NZ politics I think, and could become much more popular than the ‘watermelons’ we have at the moment…

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  4. freedom101 (439 comments) says:

    Every cloud has a silver lining. If Hone takes 2 or 3 percent of the Green vote then the Green Party will fall short of 5%. This is well worth $500k.

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  5. Inventory2 (9,789 comments) says:

    @ Nookin. My trade-off would be Kelvin Davis winning Te Tai Tokerau for Labour at the General Election, if it mean that both the Greens and the Mana Party (who will cannibalise the Green vote; no doubt about it) both getting less than 5% support and no seats. That would mean that a whole bunch of leftie party votes were wasted; what a shame!

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  6. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    I can’t help but smile when I think of Hone, Minto and Nandor all trying to get along-It’ll be like watching the Judean Peoples Front splitting into the Peoples Front of Judea…(Though being Anti-Semites I can’t imagine they would much appreciate the analogy)

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  7. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    “This is not about a mandate. It is about having greater taxpayer funding for the Mana Party.”

    DPF’s gigantic, pulsing frontal lobes are at it again. Any other divinations you wish to make cuzzy? It’s just not fair when your political opponents have the ability to read minds.

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  8. shady (250 comments) says:

    OMG – NZ Herald on-line has a poll running as to percentage of people who would vote for the Mana party. 7%!!!!!!! of 13,000 people! If true, that is scary!

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  9. Monty (947 comments) says:

    Perfect result would be Hone holds his by-election and wins (uncontested). Then come the election John Hatfield loses to Kelvin (Maori party and the MoFo Party split the vote and Labour come through the middle), but the MoFo Party get 3% and the Greenies get 4.6%.

    Good riddence to them both.

    Labour of course get shunted to 21% and the the Nats and Act get a massive majority (and mandate) to implement the changes needed for the economy.

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  10. LiberalismIsASin (288 comments) says:

    All this faux outrage over a bye-election. Frankly if the system is dumb enough to allow this then we deserve what we get. Hate the game, not the player.

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  11. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    OMG – NZ Herald on-line has a poll running as to percentage of people who would vote for the Mana party. 7%!!!!!!! of 13,000 people! If true, that is scary!

    SOMEONE’S GIVEN INTERNET ACCESS TO THE PROLETARIAT! IT’S THE SINGULARITY!!

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  12. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    DPF:

    “Mind you part of me wants the Mana Party to do well. getting John Minto into Parliament will help the centre-right no end.”

    I think you may be stuck in the 80s with this assessment DPF. Politics in this country is going to become much more heated as the energy recession kicks in on the back of the financial recession. As more people are marginalised and alienated by the market economy, messages like Minto’s are going to find ever more more resonance in NZ. All NACT has is more wealth transfer from poor to rich – and that is going to piss more and more beneficiaries, under-employed, students and minimum wage workers off. Remember – we’re talking near half the voting-age population (and growing) there, who are going to be under significant financial stress. The Mana party is made for this situation David – and you would be naive to not recognise this.

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  13. BeaB (1,948 comments) says:

    I love this. All the loonies on the right and the left will go to Hone and Don and leave the centre for National while Labour quietly expires.

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  14. Caleb (465 comments) says:

    loonies = fiscal responsibility? loonie yourself.

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  15. ch123 (460 comments) says:

    MB: “As more people are marginalised and alienated by the market economy, messages like Minto’s are going to find ever more more resonance in NZ. All NACT has is more wealth transfer from poor to rich – and that is going to piss more and more beneficiaries, under-employed, students and minimum wage workers off.”

    You may well be right. But the problem is if a party like Mana actually got some power to implement policies and keep bleeding the “rich” to give to the poor, then the “rich” will leave in droves (we’re already seeing significant numbers flee anyway). Then there’ll be no one to take the money for the handouts and the country would be even more screwed.

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  16. Chris2 (704 comments) says:

    Hawawira only received 12,000 votes at the last General Election when he stood for the maori party. His following was not large then, so it is hard to envisage him increasing his level of support when out on his own, and at a By-election.

    Once his resignation is accepted today he will need to fund his own travel too. I don’t imagine he will be doing any more flying around the country at the taxpayer expense. It will be a 4WD for him as he travels around the electorate. Hey Hone, you’ll have to buy your own petrol too – it’s gone up quite a bit since you last had to pay for your petrol.

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  17. Michaels (1,317 comments) says:

    John Key has the ability to change the by election law and put a stop to Hone for now. Simply move it to 7 months instead of 6.

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  18. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Beab – persistent stagflation is going to shift the centre leftward – because the only way the market deals with stagflation is through deprivation of lower and middle class people.

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  19. PaulL (5,775 comments) says:

    Problem is, resigning and calling a by-election is a democratic right, and not one I’d be keen to curtail. It isn’t really the job of the system to judge why someone is doing it, it just needs to facilitate it. I do realise that Hone is very likely to win, so resigning and then getting reelected seems a waste of money. But he would come in under a new banner, and it does clearly give him some media that he wouldn’t otherwise get. In his position, I’m sure a right wing party would do the same thing, it’s astute politics.

    Of course, from where I’m sitting, the more publicity these guys get the better. It just makes it more likely that the media will point out the ridiculous parts of their policy prescription, and collapse their potential vote. If the NZ Herald online is correct (which I very much doubt – online polls aren’t known for their reliability), then 7% of people think they might vote for this party. Once they see the actual policies, that might change.

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  20. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Hey Ryan

    You don’t think some people are just taking the piss outta the granny?

    I suppose not – after all, it never happens here does it, piss taking, I mean.

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  21. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    “But the problem is if a party like Mana actually got some power to implement policies and keep bleeding the “rich” to give to the poor,”

    No cha – the rich are afforded the right to exploit the environment, and the energy of slaves for personal gain, because the majority allow it. The right should never lose sight of this fact, because if it does, we will have some some serious class-war on our hands. People do not like being treated like slaves who should feel lucky to get a crust every day.

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  22. KiwiGreg (3,129 comments) says:

    “No cha – the rich are afforded the right to exploit the environment, and the energy of slaves for personal gain, because the majority allow it. ”

    You really are a complete and utter fuckwit

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  23. BeaB (1,948 comments) says:

    New billboards – Hone/Done

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  24. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Longknives

    1. “Judea” is in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, as is “Samaria.” The locals actually call the land the West Bank.

    2. Have you ever looked at the make up of Israel’s parliament? And how long it takes to form a government after an election over there?

    Ain’t nothing united about your Peoples Front, except…ah, better stop there, demerits are hanging over me like the Sword of Damocles and I just can’t let you guys get away scot free all the time.

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  25. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    “If the NZ Herald online is correct (which I very much doubt – online polls aren’t known for their reliability), then 7% of people think they might vote for this party. Once they see the actual policies, that might change.”

    The scary thing for the right here should be that it was a Herald online poll. The NZH online readership is predominantly well-to-do white males….

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  26. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Greg:

    “You really are a complete and utter fuckwit”

    lol – have a cry then bitch.

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  27. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    BeaB

    I like it.

    KiwiGreg

    Give mb a break, he’s still stuck in Socialism 101.

    Same school Prebble and Douglas went to at that age, and look how they turned out!

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  28. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Luc:

    I thought Prebble and Douglas were attending IMF and World Bank “how to plot a moneterist financial coup, and get away with it” meetings at my age. Never mind – i’ll just stop reading my history books and start relying on kiwiblog for my world view… bahahaha!

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  29. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    Luc- I was quoting an old movie. It was an attempt at humourous analogy.

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  30. labrator (1,691 comments) says:

    To me the argument shouldn’t be about who has done it but rather is the term too short to prevent wastage. Play the ball not the man. Hone has done what he is legally entitled to do. Sure the costs are a little grating but what price is democracy?

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  31. Nookin (2,887 comments) says:

    mb
    It only takes half a dozen supporters to rattle up a few votes. Many of them are multiple votes as well. That’s why online votes are notoriously inaccurate.

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  32. Say Goodbye to Hollywood (552 comments) says:

    I just told the Maori guy at work off for reading the NZ Herald. Cheeky bastard, it ‘s only for “predominantly well-to-do white males”

    MB, you really should “JFO”

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  33. backster (2,000 comments) says:

    How high on the list will the great Tuhoe Chief Tama ITI be. Will Hone only be able to claim a mandate if 50% of those on his electorate roll vote for him.

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  34. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Perhaps Nookin – we’ll have to wait and see i suppose. Hone has had a shitload of profile-boosting exposure of late, and will draw support, as polarising, charismatic figures always do. Don’t tell me he isn’t charismatic – he may not always speak in the Queen’s english (which, as JK has found out actually works in your favour), but he has a lot of presence on camera.

    Key is lil bitch compared to Hone.

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  35. labrator (1,691 comments) says:

    The NZH online readership is predominantly well-to-do white males….

    The maxim “reality is what I perceive it to be” seems appropriate here.

    Don’t tell me he isn’t charismatic

    Ok, I’ll let the dictionary do it for you

    1. a special personal quality or power of an individual making him capable of influencing or inspiring large numbers of people

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  36. Bobbie black (507 comments) says:

    Hone – you are a f’n ugly racist pussy.

    No one with half a brain is EVER goin to vote for you or f’n ugly racist policies.

    By the way, where you from nigger, I from Mangawhai Heads ( I a white mofo BTW)

    End.

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  37. publicwatchdog (1,828 comments) says:

    “If it was about a new mandate, then Hone could have called a by-election in February when he was pushed out of the Maori Party.”

    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    errr……….. small technical point David.

    In February – there was no ‘Mana Party’ for which Hone could seek a mandate.

    You just can’t flick your fingers and immediately form a new party.

    Much easier of course – to do it the BRA$H ‘Dictator Don’ way – by taking over the leadership of an existing party within two hours of joining it?

    Bit of a hard ACT to follow – THAT one!

    If we’re talking about the costs of by-elections – let’s see a bit of consistency here – shall we?

    Please be reminded of how much tax-payer (and ratepayer) money, has been spent on ‘democracy’ following the resignation of ex-National MP Pansy Wong, over arguably corrupt practices involving the ‘misuse of public office for private gain’?

    How much did the Botany by-election cost?
    How much is the Howick by-election costing (as a result of Jami-Lee Ross choosing to stand and win the Botany by-election)?
    How much would another by-election to fill a local board vacancy if Dick Quax wins the Howick Ward by-election?

    Penny Bright
    http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

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  38. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    mb

    You should look up the history of the Princes St Labour Party Branch.

    I was at uni with the (then) glamorous Kedgley sisters, and those two guys are my (only slightly older) contemporaries.

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  39. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Labrator:

    “The maxim “reality is what I perceive it to be” seems appropriate here.”

    Firstly, it isn’t a maxim you dolt. Secondly, Ask DPF – he’ll tell you the same. You’re just ignorant it seems.

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  40. RightNow (6,338 comments) says:

    Who actually believes Hone can get his act together long enough to meet all the filing deadlines for this? FFS the guy missed the vote on the very legislation he split from the Maori Party over.
    And with Matt McCarten on board this could only exacerbate the problem given his inability to follow simple instructions such as not spending taxes collected for PAYE.
    This ClusterF#@K party probably won’t even get registered.

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  41. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    It’s nice to see Bobbie Black in a good mood.

    I’m up in Mangawhai Heads often Bobbie. Let me know when you are home next.

    Say, you’re not really Neil, are you?

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  42. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Luc:

    “You should look up the history of the Princes St Labour Party Branch.”

    They were part of the non-union rightwing takeover of the party. Anyhow, such people are just egoists – not socialists or capitalists.

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  43. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    How are the heads Luc? Surf pumping? Have they cleaned up the estuary yet? Lived out that way for a few years.

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  44. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    magic

    I bow to your superior knowledge.

    They sure had me fooled.

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  45. publicwatchdog (1,828 comments) says:

    “The fact hat he, Unite and the other rabble of wreckers and haters support Hone is enough.”
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

    errrr….. like to provide some FACTS and EVIDENCE to back up that little piece of vitriolic diatribe ‘Nookin’?

    The basis upon which you are relying to claim Unite and ‘other rabble’ are ‘haters and wreckers’?

    ‘Hating’ whom and ‘wrecking what’?

    (In my considered opinion, Unite must be doing something right (errr…’left’? ;) to jam buttons like yours on ‘FULL’!

    Penny Bright
    http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

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  46. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    The Estuary is beautiful, I assure you. It’s lovely walking out the back door and into the water – at high tide, of course.

    Don’t surf these days

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  47. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Luc – Rodney, Prebble and Brash are all self-aggrandising egoists who have sex with girls young enough to be their daughters, nearly granddaughters. Do you think that’s normal?

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  48. Bobbie black (507 comments) says:

    I may be up near there in July Luc.

    I always sniffing out the Flavell sisters.

    I send you a message if the moisture is good.

    And pay attention to my next book, if it is ever finished, the bit with the kingfish eating the flounder is particularly good.

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  49. rouppe (852 comments) says:

    Hone says he isn’t going to stand anyone against the Maori Party in the election. So why does he need to have such a large travel schedule outside his electorate to drum up support?

    Hone says (twice) on national TV that he is not going to force a by-election. Then he does.

    Hone says that Don brash is racist for wanting “one law for all”. Then he campaigns on special privileges for Maori.

    The people he is gathering around him are militant radicals. He is forming his party with a base of disaffected workers who feel like they’re getting a raw deal. My parents spent 5 years under the jackboot of a man who started his political life in a very similar way.

    The man is a liar. The man is dangerous.

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  50. emmess (1,333 comments) says:

    He launched the left-leaning Mana Party on Saturday and announced he would force a by-election in Te Tai Tokerau, which he won for the Maori Party in 2008.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10722845

    I am sure all us well-to-do white male Granny Herald readers would agree Hone is left leaning and Don is extreme right.

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  51. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    The Hone Party? Best news for the right since…I dont know…the last election?

    Was it Mark Twain who said (something like) “When I left home at 17 my father was very ignorant…when I returned at 21 I was amazed what he had learned in four years?”

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  52. labrator (1,691 comments) says:

    @magic bullet

    maxim – noun – A short, pithy statement expressing a general truth or rule of conduct

    The dictionary is a useful resource. Unless, of course, you want to keep defining words to mean what you want them to. Just like it seems you want to define your version of reality to be every one elses too.

    I’m not sure what DPF has to do with the readership of the NZHerald or any veracity of the statement you make. Go find some figures.

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  53. Bobbie black (507 comments) says:

    Hey, I am happy to be called a white mofo as long as I can call Hone a nigger.

    Deal Hone?

    OK nigger?

    Hey, I am not the one using the f word!

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  54. 103PapPap (116 comments) says:

    Hey, if Obama produces his birth certificate to prove he’s American, should Hone produce his to prove he’s a Maori?

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  55. Sofia (780 comments) says:

    Define ‘Maori’ …

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  56. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    lab – there is no truth in that. If i wasn’t open to absorbing views different than my own, i certainly wouldn’t read kiwiblog.

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  57. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    “Hey, I am happy to be called a white mofo as long as I can call Hone a nigger”

    Sure – email that to a mate if you want. Knock yourself out.

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  58. BlairM (2,266 comments) says:

    Luc=Monty Python reference FAIL

    I can’t see how giving John Minto an even bigger soapbox to spout his vile bigotry than he already has now helps ANYONE.

    In a proper country, Minto would have been dismissed as a lunatic long ago, and nobody would pay anything he says any attention.

    Fortunately, I think there is a possibility that Harawira might actually lose. It really depends if, and who, the Maori Party stand against him. People forget that Maori politics doesn’t follow the same rules as everyone else – whakapapa is everything for a candidate. If the Maori Party find someone with a better family tree than Hone’s, it’s all over for him. As it is, I don’t think that he has the solid support among Te Tai Tokerau Maori that the pakeha media supposes.

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  59. jaba (2,068 comments) says:

    HART .. halt all racist tours
    HARPP .. halt all racial parties
    John Mintie supported the 1st .. would he support the 2nd?

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  60. DJP6-25 (1,231 comments) says:

    Like all candidates, John Hatfield deserves his ‘day in the polling booth’. If he manages to collapse the ‘green’ vote, and fail to boot; that will be the icing on the cake. It’d be nice to be back in NZ just for election night.

    This stuff is the price we pay for democracy. The fact that this particular scenario might turn out bad for the left is the icing on the cake.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  61. publicwatchdog (1,828 comments) says:

    BlairM (1,242) Says:
    May 2nd, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Luc=Monty Python reference FAIL

    I can’t see how giving John Minto an even bigger soapbox to spout his vile bigotry than he already has now helps ANYONE.

    In a proper country, Minto would have been dismissed as a lunatic long ago, and nobody would pay anything he says any attention.”
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    So – you supported apartheid and the Springbok Tour did you BlairM?

    Or – perhaps you simply don’t support the human rights of Palestinians – who after 60 years (unlike Israel) still don’t have their own ‘State’?

    Penny Bright
    http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

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  62. PaulL (5,775 comments) says:

    jaba: what’s the second P? Halt all racial parties please?

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  63. Manolo (12,626 comments) says:

    A typical bludger and parasite speaks in support of the thug Harawira:

    Many in the crowd spoke of disillusionment with more moderate left-wing parties that no longer helped the most downtrodden. Rotorua resident RangiMarie Bosma said she registered because Harawira was willing to challenge the government for change.

    We just want to be housed, clothed, fed, basically looked after. That’s what we’re fighting for. “From what I have seen, the Maori Party has come too close to the National Party, and we need to challenge that.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4947371/Harawira-set-to-force-by-election

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  64. jaba (2,068 comments) says:

    PaulL .. I was in a hurry .. PP = Political Parties BUT I prefer your idea

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  65. Graeme Edgeler (3,220 comments) says:

    This is not about a mandate. It is about having greater taxpayer funding for the Mana Party.

    Perhaps. But is it true?

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  66. jaba (2,068 comments) says:

    GE .. he said on telly tonight he new nothing about the extra money

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  67. wat dabney (3,461 comments) says:

    We just want to be housed, clothed, fed, basically looked after. That’s what we’re fighting for.

    In plain English, they want slaves.

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  68. Tauhei Notts (1,510 comments) says:

    Many contributors here have been very critical of John Minto.
    But, according to John Minto, he and his mates single handedly demolished apartheid.
    Now, just wonder for a moment what provincial town New Zealanders would do to get medical attention if the apartheid regime had continued to function.
    John Minto, by the demolition of apartheid, has done more for the health care of provincial N.Z. than any health minister at any time.
    Weird, isn’t it?
    I’m not a urologist, but I can take the piss.

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  69. big bruv (12,359 comments) says:

    I heard Hatfield on the radio this afternoon talking about how he wants to be an advocate for poor people of ANY race.

    Is anybody going to be dumb enough to believe that crap?, remember this is the man who has said that he has NO INTEREST in helping non Maori in his electorate, he has said that he would tell non Maori to “bugger off” if they came to him for help.

    Sure, Hatfield wants the votes of white mofo’s, and he will get them from the losers who think that by voting for Hatfield they will get something for nothing but make no mistake, Hatfield is not interested in anybody unless they are Maori.

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  70. Steve (4,323 comments) says:

    For a Government to perform the Opposition has to be effective. Not happening under Labour. Then this ‘Mana” Party wants John Minto in Parliment? Fuck off. He is a festering sore that will not go away. Imagine him at question time.

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  71. shady (250 comments) says:

    I’m sure what I heard Hone saying this afternoon on Radio Live was that the Mana Party was not going to stand in other Maori electorates, but go for the party vote, and that leaves Maori Party to get the electorate seats. He hopes (with the help of his seat) to get at least 4-5 seats. That combined with Maori’s constituency seats he sees as a large Maori block and able to acheive great changes for Maori – oh and the poor.

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