General Debate 20 June 2011

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Peter

Yes!
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June 20, 2011 8:01am
Rodders

This is funny

http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/nz-first-leader-winston-peters-14-46-video-4245341
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June 20, 2011 8:14am
Peter

Do NZFirst & Labour use the same web company?
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June 20, 2011 8:59am
Rick Rowling

Do NZFirst & Labour use the same web company?

I doubt it.

NZ First doesn’t have access to Parliamentary Services.

/completely uninformed statement of no value whatsoever
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June 20, 2011 9:06am
Elaycee

@Rick Rowling.

I can see why the question would have been asked – on Sunday I posted that W. Peters was asked on Q & A about their policy to reduce GST to 10%. Peters said that suggestion was nonsense but Espiner pointed out that it was contained on the NZF website. Peters still said it wasn’t policy. But on the NZ First website under, er… ‘Policy,’ it states this (even this morning):

“A Fair Go. New Zealand First will: Lower GST to 10% and …. ”

http://www.nzfirst.org.nz/policies2.html

Similarities are there between NZF and Labour websites – both appear to be managed by clowns.
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June 20, 2011 9:13am
Pete George

We had some interesting discussions on GD yesterday. We’re not trying to convert everyone, just help people understand what we are aiming at. It’s natural for initial reactions to be negative if you have other political inclinations. Our target is not committed political pundits so blogs like this are a sounding board.

We’ll work with any democratically chosen government, and with the other parties.

Our target is to provide an alternative for those who aren’t keen to go with any of the established options, although earning respect for our intentions certainly helps.

It’s working.
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June 20, 2011 9:14am
KH

If we regard saving as desirable why do we tax interest income at all.
Further, why not tax the payers on the interest they pay? Load it onto the interest Bill.
And also give a deduction for the interest that investors earn.
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June 20, 2011 9:15am
mikenmild

Elaycee

Must have a look at the Q&A clip – watching Peters argue black is white is always entertaining.
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June 20, 2011 9:15am
MT_Tinman

Pete, a suggestion; Get yourself on the Preferred Prime Minister list of the polling companies.

Worked for Winnie way back when and you’ve as much chance of becoming PM as Brash, Peters, Hatfield, either of the Reds clowns etc.
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June 20, 2011 9:21am
Pete George

MT – how do you get added to the list of options with the polling companies?

On polls do they provide a list of options (parties and PM) or take any suggestions? It would be odd if they would list Helen Clark as an option.
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June 20, 2011 9:30am
Inventory2

NZ First policy has always been what Winston Peters says it is on any given day. Websites, newspaper articles and all other media should be regarded with the utmost suspicion, as they may not reflect the audience to whom Winston is speaking on a given day, or which side of his finger dried first when he licked it then held it up in the air to test the winds of public opinion.
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June 20, 2011 9:31am
Peter

Similarities are there between NZF and Labour websites – both appear to be managed by clowns.

Yes indeedy….
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June 20, 2011 9:36am
Rick Rowling

Elaycee – just to clarify, the “/completely uninformed statement of no value whatsoever” tag was about my post, not Rodders’!
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June 20, 2011 9:42am
Rufus

@KH

I despair at the same ridiculous situation.

“Please save money, Kiwis”.

Right. First there’s low interest rates. Then there’s inflation. And finally the little interest you earn is taxed.

Correct me if I’m wrong (not the first time), but it often seems that in real terms, you lose value when you stick money in the bank.

Why not let everyone save $5000 per year, tax free? Or $1000. Anything at all. Let people earn a little interest without being taxed on it.

The UK has a similar set-up. Certainly encouraged me to save.
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June 20, 2011 9:44am
MT_Tinman

Pete, the only time I’ve ever been asked they supplied a list with the option to add others.

Not sure how to get on the list (DPF is the polling expert around here, ask him).

I do remember Winnie getting his name added in the late eighties and the jump in popularity he suddenly achieved.

Could well work for you.
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June 20, 2011 9:48am
joana

So many comments about Winston..feeling threatened? Even the lefty on Q+A said he will be back.
Espiner is not an interviewer and if manners maketh the man , he is not a man either. When we moved back to NZ about 7 years ago we preferred to watch the Aussie news/current affairs programes because they were all so calm and reasonable; interviewers actually listened to their guests. This was in the days of the constantly hyping Susan Wood. Why ask someone a question when you intend to interrupt with something else after the person has uttered three words?? Journalism has gone to the dogs in in NZ. If Espiner is the best we can come up with , it is a very sad day indeed.
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June 20, 2011 9:49am
gravedodger

Who else misses the random kick off for GD especially when Farrer slept in and made excuses.
0800 how bloody boring my day starts mostly later but occasionally unseemly early.
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June 20, 2011 9:51am
Fisiani

When I speak to Labour and Green voters I point out that they still have a chance to shape the next government.
I point out that no one seriously expects Labour to win. They grudgingly agree.
I then point out that that means John Key will continue to be Prime Minister.(Truism)
I then ask if they would prefer a John Key led government dependant on Don Brash and ACT or would they prefer a John Key led government that was NOT dependant on Don Brash and ACT.
I then point out that the best way to make the latter option is to choose to vote strategically.
A good strategy for Opposition voters in 2011 who accept, like Chris Carter, that Phil Goff cannot win is to change their normal voting pattern this time to Party Vote National to stave off the far right.
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June 20, 2011 9:57am
Longknives

Anybody see the Documentary piece on those looney Westboro Baptist Churchers last night? It raised some interesting ‘Freedom of Speech’ issues-and got me thinking about our own crackpot protesters at Anzac Day Dawn Services…
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June 20, 2011 9:59am
Pete George

Fisiani – voters will vote strategically to (probably) put National back in, but they will also want to limit the size of National’s mandate and Act’s influence.

That’s where a safe alternative comes in.

Longknives – yes, I saw that, at least they seem to be a very small group, but I pity the kids. And I note the contradiction between the haet they preach and my perception of what Jesus stands for.
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June 20, 2011 10:03am
mikenmild

Longknives
Didn’t see it, but I was interested in the recent flag-burning judgment here. It seemed to me that something basic was overlooked. Although the burning wasn’t considered ‘offensive’, why wasn’t the protestor charged under the Flags, Emblems and Names Protection Act?

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1981/0047/latest/DLM52211.html
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June 20, 2011 10:09am
backster

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/crime/news/article.cfm?c_id=30&objectid=10733117………..

This item is about the bizarre evil murder case by a small drug dealing gang. The leaders’ intent being to emulate an American serial killer. The three accused had each consumed almost $100,000 in legal aid apart from this case. The Defense lawyers blackened the dead victim’s reputation by stating he was a rapist an a druggie, no evidence presented. The victim was in fact a 38 year old with no convictions and the only drug in his system at death was morphine administered by his killers. The victim’s parents were denied the opportunity to put the record straight in their victim impact statement.

The whole case is a sad commentary on the state of our Justice system and society. Hopefully the reform Simon Power hopes to bring in will rectify the matter coming as it does on top of the villification of Robin Bain and Sophie the victim in the Weatherston case.
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June 20, 2011 10:24am
Elaycee

@ Rick Rowling. “Elaycee – just to clarify, the “/completely uninformed statement of no value whatsoever” tag was about my post, not Rodders’!”

Gotcha. 🙂
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June 20, 2011 10:25am
Elaycee

@Joanna says : “Journalism has gone to the dogs in in NZ. If Espiner is the best we can come up with , it is a very sad day indeed.”

Touche.
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June 20, 2011 10:27am
Nookin

I agree that our interviewers are crap (Walrus, Campbell, Espiner..). To be fair to them, experience means that they are hardwired to know that the pollie is not going to answer any question directly and will ramble off on an irrelevant diatribe of their own.
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June 20, 2011 10:37am
Pete George

It wasn’t Espiner’s performance that worried me about that interview.
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June 20, 2011 10:37am
Elaycee

In fact, can anyone think of a single (current affairs) interviewer (past or present) who has not made it patently obvious to the viewer (or listener) which side of the political spectrum they support?

Nah – couldn’t recall one either.
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June 20, 2011 10:46am
Rodders

joana @ 9.49am said “So many comments about Winston..feeling threatened?”

So, joana who refers to Kyle Chapman as a “good guy” defends Winston as well. Am I surprised?
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June 20, 2011 10:48am
mikenmild

Elaycee

Used to enjoy Lindsay Perigo’s interviewing years ago, and it wasn’t evident that he was of an extreme libertarian persuasion (unless his Road to Damascus moment came later).
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June 20, 2011 10:48am
KevinH

In so far as Espiner is concerned , “don’t shoot the messenger”, read the message first. Espiners guest on Q&A was none other than the Honorable Winston Peters, who by all accounts, is not finished yet.
With Winston back in the limelight the polls are indicating that even at the most modest percentage of 5%, NZ First are on course for up to 5 seats in November. This will make for an entertaining campaign leading into the general election, with both Don and Winston lining up on opposite sides of the house. Could this be the anticipated ” Clash of the Titans?” , we shall see if Don can get up and match Winston.
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June 20, 2011 10:56am
Rufus

Parliament-worker-accused-of-theft-in-court

Name suppression again.

Why even bother mentioning it in the “news” then?

Sigh.

Hey, why not simply suppress the details of everyone who appears before the courts.

At least then you’d treat everyone the same…
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June 20, 2011 11:49am
holysheet

Yesterday Viking2 posted in GB

“if KB want more capital we can do that by selling extra shares, i.e. shares not already owned by Govt. to raise extra capital. i.e. Kiwibank can issue new shares. Price will lower but that’s ok. No issue there”

My response was;

If KB sells share to raise capital, to whom would they be selling these new shares to? One presumes to the owner of the capital. ie new shareholders. Who in NZ would have this kind of ready monies? The other trading banks or overseas entities? Would this not dilute the govts shares.
If we follow your argument in agreeing with WP about being against the govt selling shares, how do you reconcile his agreement to sell kiwibank shares.

I await a response from viking2
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June 20, 2011 11:50am
Elaycee

The misguided, bleeding hearts who could see no wrong in Allan Hubbard, have just been delivered the message that no fewer that 50 charges have been laid by the Serious Fraud Office against Allan Hubbard.

Still support him now?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10733337
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June 20, 2011 3:43pm
snowy

Mikenmild @10:09

Or why wasn’t the protestor at least charged (or fined by the WCC) with starting a fire in a public place? Does it mean I can stand on Lambton Quay burning sheets of newspaper and get away with it?
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June 20, 2011 3:46pm
Longknives

I’m sorry, but we are turning into a nation of wowsers…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5167427/Student-mag-pub-ad-promotes-binge-drinking

Jesus isn’t University all about ‘binge drinking’ and fun?? (And don’t try to tell me that just because some high school kid makes some bad decisions and pops his clogs that the rest of NZ society should be flagellated and punished…)
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June 20, 2011 3:48pm
metcalph

Hubbard faces 50 SFO charges
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June 20, 2011 3:49pm
nasska

If the SFO handle the prosecution in their normal lacklustre manner we will see these charges thrown out of court during the first few days of any trial. With the Government’s guarantee indemnifying their reckless investments South Canterbury supporters will be able to concentrate on ensuring that their hero becomes the first living recipient of beatification.

What a racket.
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June 20, 2011 4:10pm
Manolo

A meeting of tyrants: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_VENEZUELA_CHAVEZS_WOES?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-06-19-13-24-39
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June 20, 2011 4:45pm
Viking2

holysheet (24) Says:
June 20th, 2011 at 11:50 am

Yesterday Viking2 posted in GB

Obviously you have no idea of the world around you. Plenty of people in NZ with lots of money to invest provided the right investment option is floated. Many many Kiwi’s will buy shares in Kiwi bank as evidenced by the banks growth of customers and deposits. The Govt can sell its shares to the super fund if it wants cash and Kiwi Bank can raise extra funds from the public. If the govt want a greater say they can buy more shares but they don’t need to.
Same applies to other Govt SEO’s.

Not that difficult to either understand nor do. We not for most ordinary Kiwi’s at least. Don’t need a faux Certificate of Qualification in money to figure it out.
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June 20, 2011 5:50pm
wat dabney

GISS Shows No Warming Over The Last Decade

http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/06/18/giss-shows-no-warming-over-the-last-decade/

So even James Hansen’s manipulated figures are unable to show any warming.
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June 20, 2011 5:57pm
krazykiwi

@wat – it’s a magnificent fraud, with layer upon layer if vested interest protecting each other, while the bamboozled, made-to-feel-guilty punter picks up the extortionate tab
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June 20, 2011 6:14pm
Viking2

Here’s the National Governments problem.
They are not to be trusted with anything they say.
Here is the latest lot of lies.

Before the last election the then Leader of the Opposition stated a number of times and included in their policy that a National Govt. WOULD NOT be a WORLD Leader on the issue of carbon taxes. Now we all know that as Prime Minister John and the National Govt. has indeed been a world leader on the now defunct issue.(No one has been brave enough yet to tell John key that its all over but,)
Confirmation of their leadership has come today from very high places in Australia. Here’s what Gillard had to say minutes before she invited Key to speak to their Parliament. ( A speech which was good from what I saw.)

NZ and Aus to work closely on carbon tax

Monday, 20, Jun, 2011 3:31PM

New Zealand and Australia will work closely on our respective climate change schemes.

New Zealand Prime Minister John Key and Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard have just fronted a media conference in Canberra ahead of Mr Key’s address to their Parliament in a joint sitting of its houses this afternoon.

Ms Gillard says officials will work together on carbon dioxide pricing schemes, describing New Zealand as leading the way.

The last sentence tells the truth.
Why would we believe anything they say any more?
As bad as the Liarbor Party.
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June 20, 2011 6:18pm
Viking2

Key must still have some Carbon credits he wants to sell. Maybe he could con Julia into swapping them for a certain harbour bridge. Oh hang on Key’s just left for Sydney.
Maybe he’s already done the deal and gone to collect the prize. 😆

Forgot the link for above.
http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/news/news-story.cfm?content_id=812209
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June 20, 2011 6:21pm
nickb

Credit where credit is due, good to see the government has passed the gift duty legislation further through today.

Complete envy tax and a huge compliance burden around taxpayer’s necks relative to the amount collected. Good fro asset protection too (e.g. assets protected in Trusts quicker)
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June 20, 2011 6:41pm
Viking2

Keys speech to the Aussie parliament.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10733397
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June 20, 2011 6:44pm
nasska

Car Theory Question:

Q. A police officer following you sounds his siren & turns on his flashing red & blue lights. You should:
A. Turn in to the next side road.
B. Pull over to the left when it’s safe to do so.
C. Stop in the middle of the road.
D. Speed away with the accelerator pedal on the floor, go on 2 hour rampage running over as many pedestrians as possible, dodging tyre spikes by driving on the footpath, only stopping when you have run out of fuel. You then run out of your vehicle into the bush around about, 20 metres away, and hide from the helicopter who is able to pick you up on the Thermal Camera he has been pointing at you for about 30 minutes. Then wait for the dogs to come..
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June 20, 2011 6:59pm
mikenmild

nasska
Why do so, so many choose D?
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June 20, 2011 7:02pm
Viking2

Most fun.
Stop in the middle of the road.
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June 20, 2011 7:03pm
nasska

mikenmild

My guess is that if you asked them they would probably say that it seemed like a good idea at the time.
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June 20, 2011 7:05pm
joana

The Serious fraud office have gone after a sick , humble 82 yr old. What about all the ones that got away?? Gary Campbell for starters , ex cop , fraudster extraordinaire…now living the good life in Brisbane. Last I heard he was in real estate..Other peoples real estate no doubt. He destroyed the lives of so many elderly people and got off scot free.
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June 20, 2011 7:13pm
holysheet

Viking2
You have deliberately? missed the point of my question.

“If we follow your argument in agreeing with Winston Peters about being against the govt selling shares, how do you reconcile his agreement to sell kiwibank shares.”

I have no concerns about the govt selling share in any of the various entities.
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June 20, 2011 7:14pm
nasska

A court case had finished up for the day. When the lawyer left court, he exclaimed “What a boring day!” “I know how you feel,” said a journalist behind him “But don’t worry, I know something really fun to do around here. Follow me.”

The journalist led the lawyer to the very top of the tallest building for miles around. “Watch this,” he said. And, without another word, he jumped off. The lawyer opened his mouth to yell, but a very peculiar thing happened. Instead of plummeting to the Earth below, the journalist simply hovered for a few seconds, then whizzed around three times and flew back to the top of the building. The lawyer was speechless. “What-how-“he stammered. “Easy. at this exact spot, the wind blows in a certain way, stopping anyone from falling. I’ll show you again.” He jumped again, and the same thing happened. The lawyer was now feeling really excited. “Let me try!” He cried. He then jumped off the building and fell to his death. The journalist looks down below, smiles slightly and left the scene.

Meanwhile, two men had witnessed the whole thing. One turns to the other and says, “Wow, that’s the third one this week. Clark Kent must really hate lawyers.
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June 20, 2011 7:27pm
Shunda barunda

I see John Campbell is still doing his darnedest to make out that Cantabrians are a bunch of weak willed spineless pussies.

It is almost immoral the way TV3 are determined to portray the situation as utterly hopeless.

Fear is contagious Campbell, congratufrigginlations.
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June 20, 2011 7:36pm

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