General Debate 24 June 2011

June 24th, 2011 at 8:00 am by David Farrar
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133 Responses to “General Debate 24 June 2011”

  1. The only red for me is that of Manchester United (23) Says:

    The satisfaction will last me all day.

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  2. Sofia (553) Says:

    A very scary video of a person advocating criminal acts against New Zealand authorities –

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  3. Pete George (17,596) Says:

    Standing as a candidate may not be your thing you can do to pressure for better consultation and representation in parliament at other levels.

    We have set up a Dunedin blog to consult and listen – while the best way to push that through to representation is if it’s directly linked to an MP it could still build into a strong people’s lobby. It won’t worry good current MPs or parties who do a good job in their electorate, but it will give more opportunity for people to have a say.

    If you’re interested in doing something like this in your electorate or region – if you have a blog you can run this separately or integrate it with what you’re doing – then check out the template at http://yourdunedin.org/

    We can have more of a say by doing more.

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  4. Peter (1,089) Says:

    A very scary video of a person advocating criminal acts against New Zealand authorities –

    That looks very illegal. Very, very illegal.

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  5. Falafulu Fisi (2,168) Says:

    What’s described here may one day be useful for medical technology such as distinguishing cancer cells from the healthy ones.

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  6. Viking2 (9,483) Says:

    Tauranga gets a 10.4 rates increase. Nice and that doesn’t include water or rubbish.

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  7. Viking2 (9,483) Says:

    There’s lies, dammed lies, statistics and then there is politicans.

    Drop in ACC rates on the way

    Friday, 24, Jun, 2011 6:22AM

    Cheaper ACC rates for wage earners and businesses are on the way with a significant turnaround in the fortunes of the organisation.

    It’s expected to return a surplus of $2.5 billion for the past year, well over twice the amount that had been forecast.

    It follows deficits in 2007 and 2009.

    http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/news/news-story.cfm?content_id=812439

    Minister Nick Smith says there have been fewer claims, better management of costs, and improvements to the rehabilitation of claimants.

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  8. Viking2 (9,483) Says:

    And I hate to fuck up Friday for you all but be warned the blog blight and its crazy mates are on the go. Wanting to waste more of your money and defying responsible principles of business.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10734123

    You will know immediately whom I mean,

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  9. Murray (8,832) Says:

    A lot of things are fundemental to life itself. But they are not free and taking them will get you locked up.

    As will being clinically freaken insane.

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  10. thedavincimode (4,703) Says:

    WTF is that on her head? The whole ‘water ninja’ look is probably a good idea because she only needs one set of clothes.

    But very concerning, particularly given she is not only a judicially recongnised water person, but a qualified welder, that she could be so blase in her use of the angle grinder which can inflict quite horrifying injuries even in the hands of a skilled professional such as herself. Those pissy little safety goggles will do no good at all if it goes bad. Maybe she doesn’t think twice about it because it appears she uses one daily during her make-up routine.

    OTOH, it likes like she uses a Milwaukee – good kit with a 5 year guarantee!

    Maybe electricity, Sky TC, and natural gas reticulated and/or broadcast to the home are basic human rights too.

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  11. flipper (1,662) Says:

    Oliver Twist, prompted by media, is alive and well in Christchurch.

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  12. alex Masterley (1,146) Says:

    tdm,
    Whats on her head? Her last cat.

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  13. Rick Rowling (630) Says:

    Flipper +1

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  14. thedavincimode (4,703) Says:

    … well, a strip of it anyway …

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  15. Elaycee (3,510) Says:

    @thedavincimode

    The thing on her head looks more like a dead skunk. It would mask the ‘perfume’ but don’t think it would work against the constant stream of bullshit that oozes from beneath the top lip.

    We should know by now that narcissists are fuelled by attention. Any attention at all. The blog blight is similar to milkmilo – they both crave attention and try to achieve this by seeing their moniker in print as many times as possible.

    But I’m sure that the blog blight will soon get locked up. That’s what she is aiming for – more and more attention.

    And she will claim this is all some form of evil conspiracy.

    EEEK!

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  16. Elaycee (3,510) Says:

    @Flipper: “Oliver Twist, prompted by media, is alive and well in Christchurch.”

    That’s good. Very good indeed.

    ;)

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  17. Elaycee (3,510) Says:

    From the Beacon in Georgia:

    Assailant suffers injuries from fall.

    Orville Smith, a store manager for Best Buy in Augusta GA., told Police he observed a male customer, later identified as Tyrone Jones of Augusta, on surveillance cameras putting a laptop computer under his jacket. When confronted, the man became irate, knocked down an employee, drew a knife and ran for the door.

    Outside on the sidewalk were four Marines collecting toys for the Toys for Tots program. Smith said the Marines stopped the man but he stabbed one of the Marines Cpl. Phillip Duggan, in the back; the injury did not appear to be severe.

    After Police and an ambulance arrived at the scene Cpl. Duggan was transported for treatment.

    “The subject was also transported to the local hospital with two broken arms, a broken ankle, a broken leg, several missing teeth, possible broken ribs, multiple contusions, assorted lacerations, a broken nose and a broken jaw – injuries he sustained when he slipped and fell off the curb after stabbing the Marine,” according to a Police report.

    http://blog.gnurl.net/clinchwood/2011/05/13/assailant-suffers-injuries-fall/

    :)

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  18. Murray (8,832) Says:

    A tragic tragic accident Elaycee.

    If only he hadn’t pissed of some marines they might have helped him when he seemed about to fall down.

    So sad.

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  19. Inventory2 (8,809) Says:

    We see a potential problem coming up for the government; the cries of “What about the uninsured?” are already starting to rise up from the usual suspects; those who excel in spending Other People’s Money.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/06/what-about-uninsured.html

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  20. Luc Hansen (4,573) Says:

    I think it was the stabbing in the back that did it.

    Anyway, The Daily Show at its best: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-june-20-2011/new-york-city-outdoor-smoking-ban

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  21. mikenmild (6,603) Says:

    Inventory2

    I don’t see how someone uninsured can be seen in any other way than imprudent. If I spent all my money on a car that I didn’t insure and then crashed: no one would expect the government to make good my loss. If I buy shares in a company that goes bust because of something out of my control: will the government compensate me? Insurance is a pretty simple concept.

    It also sends the wrong message to bailout someone who is uninsured – it creates an incentive for others to freeload.

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  22. Murray (8,832) Says:

    Yeah mike is right, lets take them all out back and shoot them.

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  23. tom hunter (3,852) Says:

    Oh dear – Joe Biden’s bi-partisan deficit reduction group just had it’s GOP representatives quit, with them telling the media that the talks have gone as far as they can and President Obama must now start talks with Senate Leader Harry Reid.

    The problem there of course is that Harry and the rest of the Democrats who control the Senate have not produced a budget in almost 800 days (a breach of the law as it happens), while President Obumble’s proposed budget was voted down 97-0 in the same Senate.

    I did like this line from the author of the piece:

    Note to self: Buy gold.

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  24. reid (13,566) Says:

    A very scary video of a person advocating criminal acts against New Zealand authorities

    I actually think her fundamental point about water is correct. I think water is one of the things that does not lend itself to privatisation and it should never be anything but a publicly held and administered asset by local councils. I don’t understand what value has been added to customers by MetroWater over the years since it’s been operating and I have deplored the ever increasing water charges it has seen fit to impose.

    See water isn’t something you can market to encourage consumption. People use as much as they want and not a drop more, there is no point in running a campaign to encourage people to use more. The only thing you can ever do with water is improve the delivery mechanism by replacing pipes. That’s it.

    Before and after Metrowater, has made no difference whatsoever to the customers. They got water before and they get the same water now. Just they now pay heaps more for it than they used to when it was just part of the rates bill. So what, pray tell, have the customers, who remember, paid to build it in the first place, ever gained from its privatisation?

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  25. James Stephenson (1,472) Says:

    Just they now pay heaps more for it than they used to

    It’s worth remembering, when you talk about what we pay for water, that the major costs in there are not in delivering the stuff out of the taps but in dealing with it once it’s been used and especially in managing stormwater and preventing it going straight into the harbours.

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  26. mikenmild (6,603) Says:

    reid
    ‘Water isn’t somehing you can market’

    Tell that to the bottled water industry or manufacturers of water coolers.

    Like it or not, water supply actually costs real money. When there is no charge for the quantity used, consumers become indifferent to the amount they consume. That’s not to argue for privatisation; but price is one similar mechanism to regulate demand.

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  27. nasska (6,400) Says:

    To throw my two bobs worth on top of reid’s comment, privatisation of any utility is a disaster in the making. If we are going down the private ownership road lets do it with one proviso…there must be competition to make it work otherwise it is handing a profit making organisation a rather large gun to hold to the head of the captive consumer.

    What works for sale & distribution of ice cream doesn’t necessarily work for water.

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  28. tvb (3,313) Says:

    The deal for CHCH is getting very little treatment which means that it is widely seen as fair. But no doubt the media and Clayton Cosgrove will focus down on the hard luck stories. The Labour Party have come close to blaming John Key for the earthquakes and no doubt Jim Anderton sees it as a tory plot to keep him out of the CHCH Mayoralty. But Bob Parker has no put a foot wrong though Jerry Brownlee is less successful in his role.

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  29. reid (13,566) Says:

    Nice driving…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/motoring/5187256/Top-Gear-hosts-brush-with-near-disaster

    Absolutely James and again, how has privatisation changed/improved that from what it was beforehand to what it is now? Whatever improvements may or may not have been made, how does anyone know whether or not they would have been made anyway?

    Before anyone says, how do I know privatisation didn’t make a diff, I don’t. Neither does any privatisation supporter know whether it did or not. However the fact Metrowater now has to distribute dividends logically means it has less resources than if it had never been privatised and the same charges had been levied by the local authority. So why is privatisation good? One would have to assume it’s not, because of those dividends, wouldn’t one?

    mm, clearly I’m talking about tap water, nothing else. You can use price to regulate demand just as easily as a local authority than as Metrowater.

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  30. reid (13,566) Says:

    https://picasaweb.google.com/104592539075472798431/TheGreatMissouriRiverFloodOf2011#

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  31. Yvette (2,419) Says:

    Auckland water charges are surely because somewhere along the line Aucklanders voted for it to be that way, or voted for those who were instrumental. If they now object, the logical action is to unvote them, not commit criminal acts so that those taking such action get free water, while the law-abiding don’t.

    [PS: Somewhere to start: Isn't water, under the Treaty, a tonga - if not, what is? – to be freely accessible to all?]

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  32. mikenmild (6,603) Says:

    reid

    Sorry, we may have been talking at cross-purposes. Privatisation of water supply should be out unless there is acompetition to avoid monopoly prices. Where I am, the issue is one of future supply. In my view water meters and charges for excessive use will over time eliminate the need for many, many millions to be invested in more sources of supply.

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  33. graham (1,898) Says:

    I, too, don’t know what difference – if any – privatisation has made. I live in a semi-rural location, and hence I am on tank water. I don’t pay a cent for water, I catch it off my roof. I take all the responsibility for responsible use of this resource – if I waste it, then I will pay (a lot!) for a tanker to deliver me water. Hasn’t happened yet, because I keep an eye on my water and when it’s low, the family has to make an effort and have shorter showers, think carefully about washing, and so on.

    I notice the usual practice of blowing a situation out to its worst possible scenario is alive and well. From the Hearld story: “Dr Casey … cited the death of Folole Muliaga, who died after Mercury Energy cut off the electricity to her home in 2007, as an example of the potential danger of restricting one of life’s essential services.” The vital difference is that electricity was COMPLETELY cut off in that case, whereas the water supply would be RESTRICTED. IE, you still have water – it just takes longer for it to come through. Sure, having a shower will be nigh on impossible, but you will still have water for drinking.

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  34. side show bob (3,660) Says:

    Elaycee lucky for the marines they weren’t in NZ. They would have been charged with assault and convicted. The thief would have been rushed to the emergency ward and ACC would be there with a full support program. The press would be called and a interview arranged on Campbell Live or some other politically correct half hour of nonsense. Where the poor “victim ” could tell of the thugs that roam NZ streets. Then perhaps we could have some half baked fool calling for new rules limiting the gathering of returning serviceman should they dare to ever believe they have the right of self defence.

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  35. Rick Rowling (630) Says:

    Water is a free good – not lending itself to commercialisation.

    The service of storing, cleaning, pumping and delivering water however…

    /That is to say – anyone can have water for free – just collect it when it falls out of the sky. If you want someone else to do the work for you, pay for that work.

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  36. Mick Mac (1,085) Says:

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=314309

    Delta airlines the start of something, wonder if in litigation home that they’ll be sued quick quick..
    The FAA and the world can sort this in one step, any airline that discriminates on race or colour etc etc refused permission to land in USA or other countries.

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  37. MT_Tinman (2,228) Says:

    Water is a small kingdom in the Pacific?

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  38. kowtow (4,447) Says:

    Freedom of speech victory.

    Geert Wilders acquitted.

    However they have made their point,watch your mouth or it’s court for you.

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  39. Murray (8,832) Says:

    It might be hard to spot some of these people are being Jewish Mick. They are notoriously tricky. Maybe we could get them to wear somethign so we can tell them apart from decent people.

    Perhaps a yellow star would be apropriate,

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  40. nasska (6,400) Says:

    Rick Rowling

    This service of storing, cleaning delivery etc. One would think that a private organisation would want to be paid for this service & make a profit. If ABC & Co run water delivery pipes down each street equally serviced by XYZ & Co I would imagine that normal business competition would sort out a fair price.

    If only one company can feasibly offer water how do you think their price should be set? Cost of delivery plus 20%? Plus 80%? Plus whatever they damned well think?

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  41. reid (13,566) Says:

    Auckland water charges are surely because somewhere along the line Aucklanders voted for it to be that way

    When we over a million idiots that didn’t include me, voted for MMP did we they know what would happen? How come the fact that MMP would bring a whole lot of flakey loons into Parliament and furthermore let them most times, decide the govt by holding the balance of power, was never raised during that debate?

    I actually can’t even recall the Metrowater debate and I was living in Akld at the time. All of a sudden it was just there and the prices started rising.

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  42. Rick Rowling (630) Says:

    nasska – yes – where there’s a natural monopoly there needs to be some sort of process to avoid price gouging.

    “Make it all free (i.e. paid for through local taxation) with no restrictions on use” isn’t the only answer though.

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  43. reid (13,566) Says:

    Anyone been following this story?

    The private sector China Beachhead Advisory Board resigned en masse in a meeting at the New Zealand embassy in Beijing this week saying NZ Trade and Enterprise was undermining its work in helping Kiwi companies do business in China.

    NZTE chief executive Peter Chrisp flew to Beijing for the Monday meeting to try to sort out difficulties between his trade officials and the board but without success.

    The private sector board is chaired by expatriate New Zealander and highly respected banker David Mahon who has worked in China for 26 years, and the other seven members are either high-flying local business people or other ex-pat Kiwis.

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  44. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,447) Says:

    No Yvette, water is not a tonga.

    A tonga is an island which grows big fat bastards who don’t much like Fijians or Samoans.

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  45. tom hunter (3,852) Says:

    Now, let us finish the work at hand. Let us responsibly end these wars, and reclaim the American Dream that is at the center of our story. With confidence in our cause; with faith in our fellow citizens; and with hope in our hearts, let us go about the work of extending the promise of America — for this generation, and the next.

    Oh god. Barry, Barry, Barry – you pathetic fucking tool of a President. Did you write this speech yourself or have you finally handed that job over to the team of 12 year-old kids on your staff that you have long thought less capable than you?

    Nails screeching on blackboard to anybody who ever read Lincoln’s original speech. This is not the end of the Civil War and this painful echo of past greatness sounded like everything else that issues from your mouth nowadays – a hollow drum.

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  46. trout (819) Says:

    Re the uninsured in Ch Ch I was surprised to see that earlier in the e/q event the EQC was making payments to the uninsured for damage when in fact they were not entitled to cover. It would be a concern if EQC was being turned into a welfare agency; but I am reminded that the Fire Service puts out fires of the uninsured even though they are funded by a levy on premiums (a good case for including the levy in rates). As I see it the uninsured living in the Red Zone in Ch Ch are likely to get a Government payout because their property will be compulsorily aquired for clearance as part of some grand land restoration plan.

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  47. Yvette (2,419) Says:

    Adolf Fiinkensein –
    No Yvette, water is not a tonga.
    A tonga is an island which grows big fat bastards who don’t much like Fijians or Samoans.

    Profound apologies Adolf, and others, for misspelling ‘taonga’
    Of course Tonga is a taonga, Aid wise, to the big fat bastards there who don’t much like Fijians or Samoans.

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  48. metcalph (1,039) Says:

    Gilbert Myles acquitted of fraud but guilty of obstructing justice (he faked evidence).

    http://dlvr.it/XYzS6

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  49. reid (13,566) Says:

    A tonga is an island which grows big fat bastards who don’t much like Fijians or Samoans.

    Or each other.

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  50. reid (13,566) Says:

    That is to say – anyone can have water for free – just collect it when it falls out of the sky. If you want someone else to do the work for you, pay for that work.

    Yeh but Rick, we already used to, through the rates. The question is: now that the payments are going to a private company who repatriates profits to its shareholders which means prices need to be charged over and above that required to deliver precisely what was delivered before, why do some people claim, that that is now an improved state of affairs when the customers have received no repeat no additional benefits and to the contrary instead have a negative in the form of increased prices to the extent of the dividends that now have to be covered?

    Why precisely, do some say, that is a good thing?

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  51. Rick Rowling (630) Says:

    Reid – I was commenting on the “you can’t charge for water, it’s a human right” angle, not on whether the charge is via a public or private organisation.

    The argument is usually that private organisations are so much more efficient than public ones that they can deliver the service at a lower cost, even after they have taken their profit (which I’m unconvinced is always the case, so I’m not arguing in favour of it).

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  52. stephen (4,063) Says:

    The argument is usually that private organisations are so much more efficient than public ones that they can deliver the service at a lower cost,

    This assumes a level of competition between providers. I suppose the only competition available here is whoever can convince the governmental power-that-be that their company should be the (sole) provider.

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  53. reid (13,566) Says:

    Ah right. Sorry Rick I must have missed that angle. Is someone really saying that? How mental. How do they expect it to work then? Magic?

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  54. Sofia (553) Says:

    I do wonder a little if I would consider voting into office a candidate who meanwhile is using an angle grinder in criminal acts against the policies of those already voted into office. Could you trust your vote to someone with apparently mixed standards? If that person didn’t get quite what they perceived to be their way would they then resort to the angle grinder?

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  55. Pete George (17,596) Says:

    The argument is usually that private organisations are so much more efficient than public ones that they can deliver the service at a lower cost, even after they have taken their profit…

    I often see that claimed. I’m sure it will sometimes be the case, and it’s likely to sometimes not be the case. Overall, is the claim based on comprehensive facts, or more on ideology?

    I think it’s horses for courses, and there will be middle ground where it may not make much difference.

    Christchurch is a good example where public restoration of water supply, drainage and sewerage makes sense, they can just do it. But it’s obvious the bulk of the repairing and rebuilding of tens of thousands of houses will be best done by private companies.

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  56. KH (680) Says:

    Please enlighten this non – Aucklander. Is Metro Water a company owned by private interests. I thought it was a company owned by the various councils. ??
    Generally I believe utilities – including airports etc -should be owned by the citizens – given utilities tend to be natural and unavoidable monopolies.
    However the councils have also tended to abuse this role appallingly. We used to be citizens to be provided an essential service. And we paid appropriate costs.
    Now Councils regards us as ‘revenue’ producing units’ and try to raise a profit off us. Savage.
    You can’t say Councils will treat us better than private corporations do. Often they treat us quite badly.

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  57. calendar girl (891) Says:

    “Privatisation”, nasska? Reid? mikenmild? Graham?

    Are you claiming that Metrowater is a “private company”? (see Reid at 11.47.) In fact it’s 100% owned by Auckland City. Increased charges to which you refer have occurred at the hands of a publicly-owned entity, not private enterprise as you imply.

    As for what Metrowater’s increased charges might be for, this is what the the owner Auckland Council says on its website about the need to pay for ongoing maintenance, as well as for future capital investment: “Metrowater ensures that funds collected from wastewater charges are allocated to maintaining and improving the wastewater system. Metrowater provides a strategic plan and long term asset management plan that maps out future maintenance and expansion requirements for the existing water and waste water network.”

    I assume that any other Metrowater charges, over and above operational and financial break-even, accrue to the Council in the form of dividends. That would have some effect (query how much) in reducing pressure on general rate increases. Look up Metrowater’s annual financial statements if you’re interested.

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  58. Rodders (1,790) Says:

    re Melcalph @ 11.40am

    Is Gilbert Myles still a JP ?

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  59. Longknives (2,496) Says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/5186050/Countrys-first-te-reo-Countdown-opens

    For God’s sake why is this necessary?

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  60. thedavincimode (4,703) Says:

    One of the major reasons for the PPP model raising its head in a water context is the requirement for capital in dealing with it, including getting rid of it when we’ve finished with it, plus the consequences of getting rid of it when it’s pissing down with rain and the papier mache systems installed by councils under rating pressure crap out.

    If you look at the metrowater model, one of the plusses is that at least it makes the costs of delivering and recovering water transparent.

    So, for example, if you want to go for a dip in the briney in Auckland but you’re a bit fashion conscious and prefer not to surface with a tampon draped around your ear, or a condom arranged casually down your forehead, you’re going to have to come up with some capital to fund the infrastructure that will protect you from these sartorial failures. That means paying higher charges through either increased costs to fund works outright, or to fund additional debt or returns on equity required to fix the problem. The other benefit is that if you harvest your own and dispose of it in your vege garden in the green belt of wherever you happen to live, you don’t have to subsidise townies bleating on about water being a basic human right.

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  61. graham (1,898) Says:

    @ Sofia 12:35

    Very true. This is the same woman who stood as mayor for the Auckland Supercity under the platform of “If elected Mayor I will help force the repeal of the $upercity Law.”

    Funnily enough, it appears that most people didn’t think much of voting in someone to lead the “Supercity” whose first act was going to be abolishing the “Supercity”

    (Wonder if she would have continued to claim the mayoral salary tho …)

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  62. reid (13,566) Says:

    I assume that any other Metrowater charges, over and above operational and financial break-even, accrue to the Council in the form of dividends. That would have some effect (query how much) in reducing pressure on general rate increases. Look up Metrowater’s annual financial statements if you’re interested.

    calendar girl thanks for the clarification on the ownership structure although I feel such doesn’t alter my view. It’s just that since it started, the prices have been rising, with no commensurate increase in service: i.e. nothing has happened. Now it seems to me if you setup a separately owned operating division, with its own CEO, backoffice systems, et al, what’s the point? Why not use the services of the mothership and save all that artificial infrastructure costs? The Metrowater office for example is just across Aotea Square from the ACC or it used to be. What has this achieved which is a clear and transparent benefit to the ratepayers?

    If you look at the metrowater model, one of the plusses is that at least it makes the costs of delivering and recovering water transparent.

    Any half-decent corporation or local body today has the ability to track and isolate all costs through proper use of its financial management system(s). If a company the size of ACC/Metrowater can’t do that even if it was fully integrated into the ACC then FFS, what have its management team been doing these last few decades?

    Secondly, I don’t believe separate owership is required in order to prevent condoms etc collecting in the outfall, either.

    So if separate ownership is not required in order to achieve either or those things which I don’t think it is, what is the point of having done it?

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  63. nasska (6,400) Says:

    calender girl

    I should have checked who owned the company before commenting but it doesn’t make much difference to the argument. Metrowater will still be expected to produce a dividend on the assets they control & those profits will be used for the council’s pet project of the day.

    Every time you Jafas flush the loo you’ll be helping Loopy Len build his train set.

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  64. nasska (6,400) Says:

    thedavincimode

    Thank you for your examples of how PPP could benefit the citizens of Jafaland.

    I’ve always prided myself for not being overly ambiguous but I accept that you have much to teach me.

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  65. mikenmild (6,603) Says:

    Longknives

    What a cool supermarket. Do you think it will be a commercial success?

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  66. DJP6-25 (1,100) Says:

    Elaycee 9:14 am. The Marines look after their own. The fool got what he deserved.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  67. Elaycee (3,510) Says:

    @David Prosser

    Agree – it was a lovely start to Friday when I first read that.

    ;)

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  68. aitkenmike (91) Says:

    @ Longknives

    Perhaps its ‘necessary’ because a private company feels that it is a way that they can attract customers to make a greater profit?

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  69. Elaycee (3,510) Says:

    Is this a case of OOPS?

    The NZ Herald reports under a heading “Ex MP Guilty Of Pokie Machine Fraud” that ex MP Gilbert Myles has had a name suppression lifted and that he has been found guilty of attempting to pervert the course of justice. Indeed, the article also said “Myles and another accused Robert Briggs were found not guilty of using documents with intent to defraud, and conspiracy to use documents dishonestly with intent to obtain a pecuniary advantage”.

    Is this another misleading headline by the NZ Herald, or does attempting to pervert the course of justice now constitute fraud in the eyes of NZ Law?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10734233

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  70. DJP6-25 (1,100) Says:

    Mick Mac 10:21 am Thanks for the heads up. I don’t think this one will survive the likely litigation that will follow. Remind me never to fly Delta anyway.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  71. mikenmild (6,603) Says:

    kowtow @10.30am
    Hard to see this as much of a ‘free speech’ issue, seeing Wilders was calling for the banning of the Koran!

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  72. reid (13,566) Says:

    On the subject of Islam I have just come across this book which I intend to read (haven’t yet). All reviews look outstanding.

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  73. Luc Hansen (4,573) Says:

    I only caught the last few minutes of Obama’s speech yesterday, but that was enough to have me snorting in disgust at the reinvention of history, not to mention the outright lies.

    But first, on The O’Reilly Factor shown here yesterday, a gem of comment by the resident so-called comedian, Denis Miller, a caricature of everything stupid and ignorant about a large segment of Americans, to the effect that Obama was winding down the war at the wrong time and that they would have to go back sometime in the next thirty years and this time they should “vaporise the lot”.

    On a show where the host regularly incites violence to those acting at odds to his fundamentalist views, including being directly implicated in the killing of Dr Tiller, an abortion provider, and advocating murder of someone or other nearly every week, this should not, of course, come as a surprise.

    All this at a time when a victim of a regular guest, Sarah Palin, has just been released from hospital. Of course, in the twisted logic of these RWNJs, placing a state in crosshairs is not inciting violence.

    But back Obama.

    our nation was united as we struck at al Qaeda and routed the Taliban in Afghanistan.

    Notice the careful wording. He didn’t say we defeated or eliminated al Qaeda, which was the primary aim of that action, because al Qaeda remains extant.

    al Qaeda just slipped over the border, yet the fight went on in Afghanistan. And the Taliban were not “routed”, as he would have the American people believe, they just left Kabul and went back home for a couple of years, waiting for the Americans to declare victory and leave.

    Lesson No 1 for Mullah Omar: never underestimate the stupidity and the complete lack of historical context of a US government.

    Hell, they even go after those who can provide them with said context: http://www.democracynow.org/2011/6/22/former_cia_agent_glenn_carle_reveals

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  74. Manolo (9,936) Says:

    Another of the Messiah’s areseholes puts foot in mouth: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/geithner-taxes-small-business-must-rise

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  75. Manolo (9,936) Says:

    Lesson No 1 for Luc Hansen: never underestimate his hatred and complete lack of historical appreciation for the United States of America.

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  76. Luc Hansen (4,573) Says:

    O Manalo! Ye of one eye…! We’ll be calling you Mullah soon.

    Look, I have more proof!

    My mate Bill O’Reilly just bemoaned the fact that Federal spending has risen to 24% of GDP. Bill, Bill, Bill, here is a little historical context:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Us_gov_spending_histry_by_function_1902_2010.png

    Yep, you guessed it, Federal spending has been more or less at that level for the last forty years!

    Except when it dipped sharply under…Clinton!

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  77. RightNow (5,392) Says:

    Not looking rosy for Julia Gillard:

    Is Australia better off after 12 months of Julia Gillard as Prime Minister?
    Yes
    7.04% (444 votes)
    No
    92.96% (5860 votes)
    Total votes: 6304

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/rudds-fortunes-soar-with-voters/story-fn7x8me2-1226080928931

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  78. mikenmild (6,603) Says:

    Luc

    Stop spoiling good stories with facts!

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  79. RightNow (5,392) Says:

    “All this at a time when a victim of a regular guest, Sarah Palin, has just been released from hospital”

    No danger of Luc and facts encountering each other mikenmild

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  80. reid (13,566) Says:

    To throw my two bobs worth on top of reid’s comment, privatisation of any utility is a disaster in the making.

    nasska is this your view on the mooted electricity sales as well?

    If so I think I agree. I was listening to an industry expert the other month explain how it’s the most capital-intensive industry which is why forward planning is critical which in this case means setting aside money each and every year and when you have thirsty shareholders there’s a tension there and not in a good way.

    I don’t really see Bradford’s reforms have achieved anything at all, really. It certainly hasn’t done what he said it would – keep prices down. And who the hell ever believed a commercial company would? It was the competition aspect he was relying on to do that and hul-fucking-lo that didn’t and hasn’t yet happened yet, has it. The design is clearly totally fucking useless in promoting competition. IT DOESN’T WORK. Unfortunately it was a one-shot one-way deal for now it’s done we can’t buy it back or nationalise so year by year we’re stuck with Bradford’s folly for the foreseeable future. Will it be made worse by Key’s baby-steps in this area? Who knows. I’m not holding my breath.

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  81. reid (13,566) Says:

    Not looking rosy for Julia Gillard:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/18/julia-gillard-most-unpopular-leader-australia

    No. 27% approval rating…

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  82. Luc Hansen (4,573) Says:

    More of the Obama speech:

    Then, our focus shifted. A second war was launched in Iraq, and we spent enormous blood and treasure to support a new government there.

    Notice that no reason was given for launching that war. We know, of course, that the stated reason proved to be bullshit (apologies to Hone), as if a country decimated by horrendous sanctions, sanctions that alone killed probably 750,000 Iraqis, could have developed nukes capable of threatening the US, so the master orator just brushed past that bit.

    Then, he tries to say that it’s all in support of a new government! How slippery can one get? Iraqis are quite capable of forming their own government, albeit one we may not particularly love, but that’s their business, and will do so once the troops are out – if they ever get out in the foreseeable future, that is.

    In fact, the US went in, achieved the personal goal of some individuals of getting rid of Saddam (good riddance to him), then drifted along in the sorely mistaken belief that hanging around will get them Iraqi oil revenues, thus paying for the war, and, even worse, imagining that Iraqis actually want to be occupied.

    Again, no historical context.

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  83. mikenmild (6,603) Says:

    reid

    I tend to agree with that. NZ is a spead out, sparasely settled country. The electricity network put in place during the 20th century is an engineering masterpiece. The locally-owned utilities seemed to do okay. Is there actually genuine competition among the providers, or is it all just a cozy mark-up?

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  84. Pete George (17,596) Says:

    Interesting to look at the Te Tai Tokerau results from 2008:

    Hone Harawira 12,019 Māori 6,204
    Kelvin Davis 5,711 Labour 9,200

    And the NI MP candidates:

    Te Tai Tokerau – Hone Harawira 12,019
    Tāmaki Makaurau – Pita Sharples 12,876
    Te Tai Hauāuru – Tariana Turia 13,406
    Waiariki – Te Ururoa Flavell 12,781

    And the Māori Party vote:

    Te Tai Tokerau – 6,204
    Tāmaki Makaurau – 5,801
    Te Tai Hauāuru – 6,076
    Waiariki – 6,890

    Harawira looks like he had a similar result to the others, the most noticeable thing is the big difference between electorate and party votes. Māori voters seem to have used MMP much more smartly than most general electorates.

    What it means now is anyone’s guess. There’s no party vote.That polling indicates a close race suggests it’s a whole different ball game. Since 2008 it’s likely that Davis’ mana has increased while Harawira’s has probably taken a hit, trying to attach to the name is going to have little effect. At the same time Labour’s mana has hardly improved.

    This by election could be simply man versus man, mana versus mana.

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  85. KH (680) Says:

    We need to have water supplied. It’s probably only going to be feasible to have one supplier in each area. So it should be owned by the locals. And we should each pay the proper costs.
    But councils should be prohibited from using such activities to extract bloated revenue for their usually excessive other expenditures.
    How you stop them I just don’t know. They seem to manage to get away with it.

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  86. Luc Hansen (4,573) Says:

    RightNow

    you want to look at this?

    http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2011/01/08/sarah-palin-put-gabrielle-giffords-in-the-crosshairs/

    It was all the buzz at the time, if you remember, although I think it turned out no link was proven, that’s true. I should have used the magic word, alleged.

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  87. RightNow (5,392) Says:

    Luc, there’s no explanation for your downright lie. Nobody believes you had anything but the worst intentions, you’re a shrill repeating leftist talking points is all. You should probably get a new KB name if you want anyone to read what you say without immediately dismissing you as a useless idiot.

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  88. david (2,305) Says:

    KH the flip side to councils gouging chargeable items to mitigate rates increases is that we all know how enterprises that are not driven by some commercial imperatives become lazy with OPM (other people’s money) and suddenly every whackjob, bells and whistles proposal and featherbedding idea has no pushback against it and the danger then is that you end up with a local version of The Railways or the P&T.

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  89. Luc Hansen (4,573) Says:

    Another Obama beauty:

    We’re starting this drawdown from a position of strength. Al Qaeda is under more pressure than at any time since 9/11.

    Umm, hang on, al Qaeda, according to the US’s own intelligence, is virtually non-existent in Afghanistan. The remnants of the original cohort is in Pakistan. But we are talking about Afghanistan, Mr President.

    And what position of strength? The Taliban come out every summer and give the troops (including ours) a bloody nose. You can’t actually defeat the Taliban (first, you have to decide which Taliban because, in fact, there is the original Taliban, then there is the non-Taliban resistance that gets labelled as Taliban) because they are the locals, and they aren’t going anywhere – except to their gundealers, that is.

    The US has blinked and are now in talks with “the Taliban.” I think you will find those ones are Karzai’s mates. Meanwhile, Afghans can read the US media and read the signs that American voters want shot of the wars.

    Look forward soon to a headlong rush for the exits.

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  90. Rodders (1,790) Says:

    Luc – How do you believe the USA should deal to Al Qaeda ?

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  91. Luc Hansen (4,573) Says:

    Talking about useless idiots, I see our fellow blogger, Ryan Sproull, has distinguished himself over the Alasdair Thompson affair, so much that he wound up in the NZ Herald.

    I quote: “Women are actually paid less because they spend hours crying and gossiping and asking for directions.” Ryan Sproull, via Twitter.

    Twittering idiot?

    And maybe Mr Thompson should shorten his christian name to just the first four letters.

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  92. mikenmild (6,603) Says:

    Rodders

    AQ seems pretty dead already. When was their last significant attack? They don’t have a safe haven to organise etc, as the did in Afghanistan and Sudan. It seems doubtful they could ever be eliminated and if the rationale for the US keeping 100,000 troops in Afghanistan is to contain them, then that’s an awfully high price.

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  93. reid (13,566) Says:

    Except when it [Federal spending] dipped sharply under…Clinton!

    Yes Luc and this is the very same Clinton who allowed the dot.bomb bubble to firstly develop to such ridiculous proportions then to burst then stood by while Greenspan dropped interest rates to zero which – phew – negated THAT political dynamite for Slick Willy but which unfortunately meant those dot-bomb losses didn’t work themselves out of the system and that became the seed which germinated into the GFC.

    So you see Luc, Clinton wasn’t quite so good after all, was he.

    I don’t understand why some even perhaps most people can’t see the blindingly obvious fact that since Reagan every single President has been bad news and this continues with Obama. Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43 and Obama are fucking useless at protecting any interests except those which help them and their brethren get elected and the results of their venal behaviour are writ large all over the US landscape and the fact they are so very large, numerous and across all sorts of arenas, is the reason why I just don’t get why some people think Clinton and Obama are really great and others think the Bushes were. Just don’t get it, at all.

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  94. RightNow (5,392) Says:

    Bush or Obama?
    http://i.imgur.com/U0Lf8.jpg

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  95. mikenmild (6,603) Says:

    reid

    Take it back further – Reagan was a disaster domestically, although wrecking the US economy for a military build-up arguably put pressure on the USSR for disarmament and then perestroika.

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  96. Luc Hansen (4,573) Says:

    Rodders, thanks for asking.

    I think the US did exactly the right thing in going after Bin Laden and his organisation, but it should have been a special forces only gig and should not have targeted the Afghan people. Remember, the opening salvo was bombing the suburbs of Kabul, overwhelmingly killing innocent civilians. In the countryside, most had never heard of Bin laden or 9/11, but they died anyway as well.

    It was stupid making it into a war against the whole Afghan nation. Tens of thousands have died for the crimes of a few hundred.

    Now, they should concentrate on quietly targeting the terrorists and not making new victims of innocent civilians, which merely become recruitment propaganda for the next wave of pissed off young people.

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  97. Rodders (1,790) Says:

    Luc & Mike – thanks for your comments. Who knows what the future holds but I believe many Americans will still feel nervous on Sept 11, this year though.

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  98. nasska (6,400) Says:

    reid @ 3.41pm

    Bradford’s reforms were some of the biggest jokes of the 20th Century & we’re still paying through the nose for the laughs. NZ is simply too small a market for most competition models. Worst of all we only get one suck of the sav & once these assets have been broken up or sold into public ownership they are gone forever.

    I’m not a fan of selling our energy producers into private hands. At least National’ proposals stop at 49% private ownership but who says what will happen if the cupboard is bare in another few years.

    My opposition to private ownership is based on the sale of our local distribution network about twenty years ago. It eventually ended up in the hands of Powerco & it has been all downhill since. Extended outages are normal & even a layman can see the network deteriorating. Profit first, service last, there’s no competition so take it or leave it.

    Powerco is owned by Babcock & Brown Infrastructure(42%) & Queensland Inv. Corp.(58%). If you have time refer to B & B’s website http://www.brookfieldinfrastructure.com/ & click on their “key links” then “vital infrastructure”. Their reasons for investing in infrastructure provide chilling reading for any consumer. Note that they don’t really worry greatly what they pay for these assets as they can screw the consumers further down the track.

    They are typical of the companies who will eventually end up owning our power assets should we sell.

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  99. reid (13,566) Says:

    Reagan was a disaster domestically, although wrecking the US economy

    No disagree mm. Hayeckian economics a.k.a. Reaganomics and Rogernomics, is what the whole world apart from Cuba and North Korea now operate. Keynesian economics is dead and buried.

    The proper balance of regulation vs market freedom is still being sought and also, Hayeckian economics is different from Central Banking and Fractional Reserve Banking which is the heart of the economic poison whether your running Keynes or Hayek. That’s the poison that causes booms and busts and even wars.

    But on Reagan, nuh uh. He gave America back its pride. For awhile under his Presidency, it was in fact Morning in America, just like the campaign ad. The only real bad thing that happened in his time was Iran-Contra and Savings and Loans and guess from whose loins both of those wholly evil activities sprang? That’s right. Bush 41. Even with a slimy oily snake like Bush 41 as his VP. Reagan still managed what he did. Not bad for a sleepy, doddering old fool, as some thought he was then and as some even today, still think.

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  100. KH (680) Says:

    When I go thru the largely council owned Auckland International terminal I end up being forced to walk in annoying great circles so I can inspect the international trash items they are trying to sell me. When all I really want to do is get to a plane. And it’s a monopoly so I can do zip about it.
    Somebody is bound to explain to me that it is usual commercial practice. Yes. But that’s not actually a justification.
    A lot of the discussion today is about the usefullness or otherwise of private ownership.
    But I can’t see the difference really when we can see public owners act so exploitively of their position.
    Maybe it’s not a public versus private arguement we need to improve services. Maybe we should look at the disadvantages to us of accepting large corporations (both public and private) in monopoly positions. Maybe we should encourage the rise of smaller private enterprises.

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  101. KH (680) Says:

    Ryall is quoted as saying that once New Zealanders are sold shares in the power companies that foreign owners cannot be stopped from then purchasing those.
    However if you wanted to stop that. It does not seem that difficult to do.

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  102. reid (13,566) Says:

    NZ is simply too small a market for most competition models.

    Yes I think that too nasska. Look at our ridiculous mobile and internet rates vs overseas. My sister from Canada couldn’t believe how everyone texts over here. Over there it’s not often used. One could go on and on.

    What’s the answer? I think we should vote for a Party that says it plans to create roving bands of consumer police who arrest customers who make stupid purchases at inflated rates. The penalty is, they have to buy the same product at a better store which has a cheaper price plus the more expensive stupid store gets its EFTPoS terminal disconnected for sixteen years.

    I wonder if Pete’s listening? I hope so.

    You could brand it as:

    [Name of Party]: Creating a higher-performance consumer society.

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  103. Mick Mac (1,085) Says:

    I think its silly just going after ALQ militarily, they must also go after the financiers and the sovereign entities that turn a blind eye, many of whom are in Saudi Arabia. But mystn’t do that or the American heirarchy will loose their access to patronage.
    Of course the whole ideology of Islam and it’s values must be up for grabs in order to pressure their world as that is what is behind it all, not American troops in Saudi or Jews in Israel.
    AlQ is passed off a being extreme and a very small subsect of Islam.

    But really is it? You’ve all read the Koran and the sira so you are all aware of what underpins the Islamic mindset.
    Through out Islam non Muslims are worth less as people, that’s why they treat non Muslims badly when they institute Sharia in a territory.
    AlQ are just pushing Sharia to the logical degree it can be. There is no moderate Islam at the end of the day.

    http://frontpagemag.com/2011/06/24/egypt-christian-girls-kidnapped-and-%E2%80%98sold%E2%80%99-2/print/

    This goes on all the time with the religion of peace. Where does the word kaffir come from?
    Answer the Arabic slave traders of East Africa

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  104. Elaycee (3,510) Says:

    The NSW Government and the NSW Greens were presenting an alternative to NSW Farmers for controlling the dingo population.

    It seems after years of the farmers using the tried and true methods of shooting and/or trapping the predators, the tree-huggers had a more humane solution.

    What they proposed was for the animals to be captured alive; the males would then be castrated and let loose again. Therefore the population would be controlled.

    This was actually proposed to the NSW Farmers and Graziers Association by the NSW Government and the NSW Greens. All of the farmers thought about this amazing idea for a couple of minutes.

    Finally, one of the old boys in the back of the conference room stood up, tipped his hat back and said, “Son, I don’t think you understand our problem ….. Those dingos ain’t fuckin’ our sheep – they’re eating ‘em!”

    ;)

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  105. reid (13,566) Says:

    I end up being forced to walk in annoying great circles so I can inspect the international trash items they are trying to sell me. When all I really want to do is get to a plane. And it’s a monopoly so I can do zip about it.

    Maybe the market will one day offer a high-speed travelator service to, for a fee, just zip you straight past all the glittering baubles and party aids. Then again, maybe it won’t.

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  106. calendar girl (891) Says:

    Well said, David @ 4:06. That’s precisely what happens without proper commercial parameters and disciplines.

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  107. publicwatchdog (1,368) Says:

    Sofia (159) Says:
    June 24th, 2011 at 8:03 am

    A very scary video of a person advocating criminal acts against New Zealand authorities –
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzccHIB3paQ

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________

    errr……….. what’s the ‘criminal’ offence ‘Sofia’?

    You are obviously not up with the play with recent International developments regarding the Human Right to water and sanitation?

    http://www.canadians.org/media/water/2011/20-Jun-11.html

    Arguably the ‘criminal’ offence is the ‘tampering’ with the water meter to restrict a household’s water supply, which is essential for health and sanitation.

    (I’m simply showing how to remedy that ‘tampering’ :)

    Yesterday at the Auckland Council meeting, I took along ‘Rita’ and ‘Peter’ (our demonstration water meters), plus a clamp which I had removed with an angle grinder, and explained VERY clearly to all Councillors and representatives of Watercare who were present, that the Water Pressure Group would simply not tolerate water restriction being used as a means of debt enforcement.

    To assist – I used our demonstration water meters to show HOW water meters were restricted, and we would unrestrict them.

    I took (and take) FULL personal responsibility on behalf of the Water Pressure Group for unrestricting water meters and training hundreds (hopefully thousands) of citizens to defend their household’s basic human right to water.

    In the ‘bad old days’ (before the Local Government Act 2002) Metrowater (contractors) used to restrict water meters in order to try and punish Water Pressure Group members – although we had put in writing ‘letters of dispute’ – to which Metrowater had never replied.

    We formed the famous Water Pressure Group ‘Turn On’ Squad, and took out the restrictors.

    Then Metrowater (contractors) removed the water meters.
    Water Pressure Group ‘Turn On’ Squad members then put in connections, which effectively replaced the water meters.

    Metrowater contractors were then instructed to ‘permanently’ disconnect water services to some WPG members, which involved turning off the street mains, digging up the street and removing water pipes.

    In broad daylight, after notifying the Council, Police, Metrowater and media – the Water Pressure Group organised the famous ‘street dig ups’ which involved up to one hundred WPG members and supporters wearing “DUMP METROWATER” sashes, and all having a turn putting our feet on the shovel helping to dig up the road.

    The water pipes were replaced – concrete was then poured over the pipes, and the water supply was turned back on, all shown on national TV.

    Metrowater had run out of plumbing options.
    They had done their worst – we ‘undid’ it.

    The result?

    A law change, which the Water Pressure Group literally won ‘on the street’.
    Under the Local Government Act 2002, it became unlawful to disconnect water services as a means of debt enforcement.

    (When the people lead – the politicians will follow?)

    Back in 2004, another significant victory was achieved when the Far North District Council threatened to introduce water restriction as a means of debt enforcement.

    Here I would like to give full credit to Hone Harawira and others, who helped with an intensive 2 day campaign, involving local media, which helped to stop the Council in their tracks.

    ‘Rita’ and ‘Peter’ the water meters were taken up North, and we had street meetings in Kaitaia and Kaikohe where I showed locals how to unrestrict water meters if the Far North District Council went ahead.

    We had the support of Public Health Officials, including the local Medical Officer of Health, against restricting water supplies and putting the health, particularly of children at risk.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=6500446

    http://www.northernadvocate.co.nz/local/news/health-risk-feared-as-fndc-eyes-water-lines/3613791/

    The Far North District Council backed off.

    So folks! If your water meter is restricted using a clamp – here is how you fix it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzccHIB3paQ

    (Thank you ‘Sofia’ for helping to ‘spread the word’. Much appreciated.

    Other You Tube clips will be made showing how to remove restrictors in both ‘in-line’ and ‘manifold’ meters.)

    Penny Bright
    http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

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  108. Elaycee (3,510) Says:

    At 1.42pm today I posted “Ex MP Guilty Of Pokie Machine Fraud” but now note that the Herald website has changed it to read “Ex MP guilty of obstructing justice”.

    The Herald has proven again that they do not let the facts get in the way of the story they want to portray. Myles has been found guilty of obstructing the course of justice and he deserves to be punished accordingly.

    But the Herald was totally wrong to suggest he had been convicted of fraud. Because he hasn’t.

    It would be poetic justice for the Herald to be sued for this – it should cost them plenty. But chances are, we won’t even see a half arsed apology tucked away at the bottom of page 17.

    We really deserve better from the MSM. But I’m not holding my breath.

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  109. Put it away (2,887) Says:

    Ahh I see Luc is back and still is a sworn enemy of reality. If you’re still trying to pretend that an atheist, weed-smoking, shroom-munching, acid-dropping registered independent voter whose friends say he had no interest in politics except that he hated Bush is likely to have given a shit what Sarah Palin says about anything, then you’re crazier than Loughner is.

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  110. reid (13,566) Says:

    There is no moderate Islam at the end of the day.

    Mick my 2:41 linked to a book on Islam which I repeat for your convenience.

    All reviews indicate this guy knows what he’s talking about and he covers both sides. He reveals the roots of Muslim antagonism to the West as well as why they feel the way they apparently do. To quote one reviewer:

    There is no attempt by Lewis to hide the religious and cultural differences between Islam and the West that often harden into intractable antagonisms as the product of constructed as well as essential differences. It is argued that, as a prime builder of meaning in the modern world, history needs to be protected on both sides from distortions that promote the respective ubiquity of the infidel and the fanatic.

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  111. mikenmild (6,603) Says:

    Elaycee

    Well, if Helen Clark could be sued for calling a ‘manslaughterer’ a murderer, then I guess the Herald could be sued for calling an obstructer (obstructionist?) a fraudster. Then we’d see Gilbert Myles get his reputation restored.

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  112. mikenmild (6,603) Says:

    reid

    It’s a more moderate view than many expressed on Kiwiblog, anyway!

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  113. Luc Hansen (4,573) Says:

    More Obamaisms:

    Some would have America retreat from our responsibility as an anchor of global security

    Did he keep a straight face when he spoke this rubbish? …an anchor of global stability?

    Read this for a start: http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/docs/CountriesBombedbyUS.html

    And add Yemen, Pakistan and Libya to the list to bring it up to date, unless I have missed a couple, which would not surprise me.

    Also, by proxy, add Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, the Occupied Palestinian Territories (Gaza and the West Bank).

    Ongoing threats against Iran, a country which has not invaded another country for a couple of hundred years (although it did counterattack Iraq after Iraq invaded).

    Not to mention support for ruthless dictatorships everywhere, especially where there is oil, black gold, Texas Tea (except that it’s inconveniently mainly under sand elsewhere).

    And involvement in coups, like Venezuela and Honduras, just recently.

    But wait! There’s more! Lots more, sadly.

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  114. Put it away (2,887) Says:

    Jeez Luc, sounds like your romance with the messiah came to a sticky end. Hell hath no fury like a leftard scorned, eh?

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  115. Rodders (1,790) Says:

    Luc @ 6:12pm said “oil, black gold, Texas Tea”

    I guess I am showing my age by recognising that quote ;)

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  116. Viking2 (9,483) Says:

    Headline news.

    Well not really but:
    Quakes may force Sonny Bill to leave Crusaders
    Christchurch’s shaky earth could force Sonny Bill Williams to leave the Crusaders.

    With the Blues and Chiefs both options for the All Blacks midfielder if he re-signs with New Zealand rugby beyond this year, the 25-year-old yesterday acknowledged the earthquakes would be factored into his decisions about any possible move.

    “I have loved my time down here but I won’t lie, it has been pretty difficult with the earthquakes and moving around,” Williams said.

    Well fuck 0off them. you have been totally useless anyway and apparently Henry see’s him as a Golden Boy.
    Well stuff me.
    Over paid, full of bullshit, disloyal, and unable to keep to a contract. Labour MP in the making.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/5186073/Quakes-may-force-Sonny-Bill-to-leave-Crusaders

    If it was not for Graham, Sonny would not be in New Zealand.”

    Henry’s as stupid as Hart.

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  117. Pauleastbay (3,726) Says:

    Luc

    has your broadband been playing up,? you’ve been quite, but today you are absolutely on fire,

    .
    i>Now, they should concentrate on quietly targeting the terrorists and not making new victims of innocent civilians, which merely become recruitment propaganda for the next wave of pissed off young people.

    I agree but you’ll then bemoan the fact that un – sanctioned death squads are roaming the globe, mind you they could practice on Hamas and have a clean up there as well

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  118. mikenmild (6,603) Says:

    Viking2

    Ha, ha, poor Sonny Bill,

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  119. nasska (6,400) Says:

    reid

    ……” He reveals the roots of Muslim antagonism to the West as well as why they feel the way they apparently do.”……

    I haven’t read the book but I have read other offerings on the subject. It would be hard for anyone to deny that the antagonism Islam has towards the West goes back a long way & as usual in these cases the causes are multiple & deep rooted.

    Problem is we have only one world to live in & the fools we chose for leaders decided to open the door & welcome with open arms people with a culture & religion absolutely committed to our destruction. There is no halfway house, no appeasement, no integration…. just an implacable hatred of us & everything we represent.

    I, for one, see no earthly point of even bothering to research anything so incapable of change.

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  120. mikenmild (6,603) Says:

    nasska

    What if your interpretation is incorrect, and Lewis is nearer to the truth? I’m yet to see any convincing evidence of large numbers ‘absolutely committed to our destruction’.

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  121. Pauleastbay (3,726) Says:

    V2

    I wish you’d take a position on SBW , you seem fickle and easily swayed!!!!!!!!!

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  122. joana (1,784) Says:

    Geert Wilders , aquitted of all charges..Of course , he should never have been charged in the first place. Read more on Winds of Jihad.

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  123. reid (13,566) Says:

    I, for one, see no earthly point of even bothering to research anything so incapable of change.

    I’ll let you know whose wrong after I’ve read it :)

    Anyway, Tsn Tzu – know the way of your enemy, even if only all you can do is see it coming from a mile away…

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  124. nasska (6,400) Says:

    It’s spring, and the baby bear comes out of his cave. His knees are wobbling, he’s a wreck. He’s skin and bones, with big circles under his eyes. His mother says, “Junior! Did you hibernate all winter like you were supposed to?” He says, “Hibernate? Shit! I thought you said masturbate!”

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  125. tom hunter (3,852) Says:

    I see it took about 48 hours for Luc the Moron to crank up to full speed but he’s back to his best front-line protest bellowing of long-since discredited talking points:

    My mate Bill O’Reilly just bemoaned the fact that Federal spending has risen to 24% of GDP. Bill, Bill, Bill, here is a little historical context:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Us_gov_spending_histry_by_function_1902_2010.png

    Yep, you guessed it, Federal spending has been more or less at that level for the last forty years!

    The graph combines all Federal, state and local government spending you oaf. There would also appear to be the typical Wikipedia inconsistency over data since a Wiki search on “US Government Spending” also turns up this graph, which shows the expected substantial increase in government spending as a % if GDP for the last two years. An examination of the specific Federal spending would show the Bush increases also, which don’t appear to show up here. Note to Luc: don’t rely on Wikipedia.

    Except when it dipped sharply under…Clinton!

    With a GOP controlled House and Senate that reversed the spending increases Clinton had so desired. You might note for future reference that it’s the House that controls the purse strings, not the President, so they actually lead the way on the budget as well as having the final say-so, including the ability to override the President’s veto if it gets to that point. Pity about 2001-2006.

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  126. LabourDoesntWork (240) Says:

    Ok. They wouldn’t print my web comment on the DominionPost’s Slutwalk article. Perhaps I should not have insulted the feminists for their stupidity and incoherence? (Therein lies the challenge when commenting on feminist antics.) No matter. Says it all, and more:
    http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2011/05/rapebait.html

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  127. tom hunter (3,852) Says:

    On a show where the host regularly incites violence to those acting at odds to his fundamentalist views, including being directly implicated in the killing of Dr Tiller, an abortion provider…

    Not that O’Reilly is much a favorite of mine but “directly implicated” simply means that some US left-wing fanatic made the same type of empty-headed assertion that Luc just made. This then gets repeated in the lefty echo-chamber until it’s transmuted into a strange new substance known to the likes of Luc as a “fact”. Jay Bookman of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution wrote that O’Reilly “clearly went overboard in his condemnation and demonization of Tiller” but added that it was “irresponsible to link O’Reilly” to Tiller’s murder.

    All this at a time when a victim of a regular guest, Sarah Palin, has just been released from hospital. Of course, in the twisted logic of these RWNJs, placing a state in crosshairs is not inciting violence.

    It was all the buzz at the time, if you remember, although I think it turned out no link was proven, that’s true. I should have used the magic word, alleged.

    The following comment was also quite a buzz at the time:

    Let me be clear, as a great man says: If you’re using this event to criticize the “rhetoric” of Sarah Palin or others with whom you disagree, then you’re either asserting a connection between the “rhetoric” and the shooting — which based on evidence to date would be what we call a vicious lie — or you’re not, in which case you’re just seizing on a tragedy to try to score unrelated political points, which is contemptible. So which is it?

    Aside from the fact that Democrats had used exactly the same imagery and “violent” rhetoric it would never be possible to prove that a causal link could be made between a map with bombing targets on it and the mind of a man who turned out to be so insane that he likely won’t stand trial for the murders – although Luc may be projecting from his personal therapy sessions here. Though that’s only alleged.

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  128. tom hunter (3,852) Says:

    Notice that no reason was given for launching that war. We know, of course, that the stated reason proved to be bullshit (apologies to Hone)

    There were 22 other reasons listed in the bi-partisan writ. They included relatively minor items like repeatedly violating the ceasefire that had allowed Saddam to live another day after his 1990 invasion of Kuwait.

    , as if a country decimated by horrendous sanctions, sanctions that alone killed probably 750,000 Iraqis,

    Debunked as long ago as Luc’s first appearances on this blog.

    And finally ….

    Talking about useless idiots, I see our fellow blogger, Ryan Sproull, has distinguished himself over the Alasdair Thompson affair, so much that he wound up in the NZ Herald.

    I quote: “Women are actually paid less because they spend hours crying and gossiping and asking for directions.” Ryan Sproull, via Twitter.

    Twittering idiot?

    I suppose I should leave Ryan to defend himself but judging from the many comments he has made here over the years and his deep-seated, left-wing philosophy of life I’d say that tweet was sarcasm. Criticism such as this coming from Mr “Single Grope” is especially ironic.

    While Ryan should know by now that this does not work in a tweet / blog environment all this really means is that the NZ Herald is as stupid and tone-deaf as Luc.

    I’m tempted to get both a drum and beater for Luc to thump every time he repeats one of these points. However I figure the beater will be sufficient as he can simply hit his skull after each utterances – it will sound the same.

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  129. Hurf Durf (2,860) Says:

    Did anyone expect anything better from Puke Hansen? Moral equivilency applied equally throughout the whole world. Anti-Westernism based either on naive ignorance or evil malignance and I have no patience for either.

    RE the Slutwalks, I wondered where I heard the name Ruth Amato before. Lo and behold:

    Julia Wakim, Malcolm France, Tania Lim, Thomas Smith, John Darroch, Rochelle Rees, Ruth Amato and Minto appeared in Auckland District Court charged with disorderly behaviour and obstructing police after they protested the presence of Shahar Peer at the ASB Classic tournament in Auckland in January, which they say supported the oppression of Palestine.

    It’s almost as though it’s a conspiracy. That would require Amato and Hansen to be competent, though.

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  130. nasska (6,400) Says:

    At an annual Bosses Night dinner in Auckland, lawyers,
    sponsored by legal secretaries, it was time to announce the
    Boss of the Year.

    The master of ceremonies began: “First of all, our winner is a
    graduate of Victoria University. So that already eliminates
    some of you as candidates.”

    “Our winner also is a partner in a downtown Auckland law partnership.
    That eliminates some more of you. “Our nominee is honest,
    upright, dedicated…”

    A voice from the audience cut in:
    “Well, there go the rest of us!”

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  131. Oskar (27) Says:

    Reid at 11am on the resignation of the NZTE China Beachheads Advisory Board, this NBR has some information but what is more fascinating are the comments.

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/nzte-rocked-mass-resignation-95871

    While there is criticism – and some support – for the trade commissioners in China David Mahon does not come out so well.
    If some of the comments are valid did he walk before he was pushed??

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  132. reid (13,566) Says:

    David Mahon does not come out so well.

    Absolutely Oskar and that angle was in the Monday story when this thing broke here in NZ.

    My position is: let’s see.

    My question is: why would someone like Mahon do this were he not concerned and since his credentials demarcate him as a serious player does he have a point or not? Jim Sutton who deserves his pension for negotiating the China FTA isn’t concerned.

    Is he right and if so, what is motivating Mahon?

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  133. Luc Hansen (4,573) Says:

    Paul East Bay:

    Luc

    has your broadband been playing up,?

    It’s been really bad tonight, Paul! But I’ve been away, then crook. Just finding my feet again, so to speak.

    practice on Hamas

    How about the IDF? Far more terrorism emanating from that source.

    Tom the failed Hunter: facts wouldn’t change your mindset and prejudices, anyway.

    Hurf: what have you got against sluts?

    Anyway, good to see I’ve been of use today.

    :-) :-)

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