Lunch with Blair
July 28th, 2011 at 4:12 pm by David FarrarAt Auckland Koru Club on the way back down to Wellington after going out to Eden Park for a lunch with former UK PM Tony Blair.
Had a very brief chat to him before the lunch, mainly about a mutual friend who used to be his children’s nanny.
Blair’s presentation wasn’t stunning – I suspect he is a bit jet lagged, but the content was excellent. I swear the man is more Tory than me. What I mean is that he gave one of the best repudiations of Keynesian economics around, explained why a fiscal stimulus in response to the financial crisis doesn’t mean one should go back the days of big Government.
He spoke about how the need for reform in public services is continual, and quipped that if Clement Atlee was alive today, the only part of society he would still feel comfortable in would be the public service, as so little had changed since the 1950s.
Talked about Iraq and Afghanistan. He thinks both will still end up better off than if there had been no intervention, however is very worried about the meddling and influence of Iran.
I asked him a question on which of the five or six Opposition Leaders he had seen off, did he respect the most and why. I quipped that he could include Gordon Brown in the answer to that question, which he seemed to find amusing.
Someone at our table (the Telecom table), asked whether he thought David Miliband should have challenged Gordon Brown for the leadership, and would the election result have been different. Blair hesitated about answering this, and asked if any journalists were in the room. It was hilarious to observe as in unison all the journalists in the room yelled out “no”, which meant Blair went on to answer. He was a master though of re-writing questions, so the answer he gave was that if Labour had remained New Labour, he thinks they had the potential to get a different result.
Blair also had interesting observations on the Middle East and the Arab Spring. He has a belief that so called western values of democracy and freedom are in fact universal values, and we are seeing this take place through the uprisings.
The company which was the major sponsor of the lunch, is Visy. They are one of the world’s largest paper recycling and packing companies and believe that responding to climate change is a business opportunity, not a cost. their Chairman spoke also to the lunch. Interestingly not a single question to Blair was on climate change though.
Tags: Tony Blair
July 28th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Meanwhile, outside…. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5353152/Protesters-slam-Tony-Blair (video)
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
Tny Blair and Climate Change in one sentence. The ultimate heresy deserving of capital punishment.
Vote:A has-been now peddling his crap around the world.
July 28th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Yes i noted the presence of some layabouts.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
Blair is the master at providing a justification for everything. He could argue a plausible case for the holocaust such is the skill of his advocacy. Brown actually took Cameron very close, it is hugely debatable whether new labour could have done it. The problem with the state bailing out the crisis is we merely shifted the crisis onto Government balance sheets with sovereign risk now being the main financial problem. NZ amongst others guaranteed the financial system with no hope of ever honoring the guarantee. Some problems are just too big for the sate to solve. Greece and others cannot be fixed except to print money. The ECB has to undertake quantitative easing i.e. buying junk debt at face value with printed money. I would have loved to ask Blair that question. As for Iraq and Afghanistan that intervention cost the US trillions and has been a total waste of money in my view. The improvements in security have been marginal at best. Containment is the better policy and should have continued.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 4:53 pm
I swear the man is more Tory than me
Ha, does that tell you anything??
Vote:We have been alluding to your socialist bent for years.
July 28th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Anything he said at the lunch today will be overshadowed by this on the news tonight:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10741410
Fuck, John Key can give a radical speech regarding the entire overhaul of NZ society and the introduction of some health initiative but if I decided to take a dump at the venue that’s what the news will report.
Shit, I’ve probably given Minto some ideas.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
It’s on my bucket list to follow Minto around for a day with a loud-hailer blaring ‘Shame Shame’ at him
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 5:07 pm
Rightnow .. I have had those thoughts myself especially when the wanker got the loud-hailer out for the Israeli tennis player. Did I hear his bunch of tossers had a 4K reward on offer to anyone who gave him a citizens arrest .. I mean Minto should give it to the Govt in unpaid taxes on behalf of his “employer”.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
According to radio reports (not exactly the most reliable of sources either), “less than 30″ protesters shouted insults at people going in to the event at Eden Park. But, you can count on the fact that this ragtag bunch numbering “less than 30″ will still receive front row billing courtesy of the breathless repeaters on both channels.
We really deserve better media service in this country – I’m just grateful there’s a large number of other channels to watch. Plus the ‘off’ switch on the remote.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
The company which was the major sponsor of the lunch, is Visy. They are one of the world’s largest paper recycling and packing companies and believe that responding to climate change is a business opportunity, not a cost.
Yeah, of COURSE its a business opportunity. Its an opportunity to invent a totally unnecessary ‘service’ and market it – along with other bullshit scams – to a gullible public fed by weakminded corporations which want to jump onto any old bandwagon regardless of how stupid it is.
Remind me never to have anything to do with this outfit. idiots.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
He’ll be feeling pleased then. Blair was responsible for pushing the Climate Change agenda, funding UEA, and he helped secure London as the centre for carbon trading. It has been revealed that 90% of the carbon market trades were fraudulent, so not something he’d like to be reminded of.
In the last couple of years he’s been a bit quiet on Climate Change matters, preferring to jet around the globe pretty regularly. I understand he spends 1 week a month in the Middle East. Perhaps he’s more focused on upsizing his power base by lobbying for the creation of a European President role, which he’d be ideal for of course.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
What did he mean if Labour remained New Labour? Have they gone back in time?
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
I laugh when Minto says he speaks “for all New Zealanders”…
Vote:He has about ten hardcore followers- all smelly, unwashed, unemployable pothead types who follow him religiously from protest to protest addressing such Earth shattering issues as the presence of an Israeli-born sportswoman…
Blair must be shaking in his boots.
July 28th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Tony Blair stands accused of leading the UK into war on a false prospectus, subordinating British interests to George W Bush and showing gross negligence in failing to plan for postwar Iraq. Yet here he is, being feted as a sage and celebrity. I doubt that history will treat him kindly.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
tvb (1,878) Says:
July 28th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
Blair is the master at providing a justification for everything.
Never a true’r word spoken IMHO.
JK is following closely in his footsteps…. Also IMHO
)
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 6:13 pm
This would be the same Visy that got done for cartel behaviour in Aus and just settled a class action? http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/visy-amcor-payout-a-cartel-record/story-e6frg8zx-1226019365905
Such nice corporate citizens
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
Was Water Woman numbered amongst the protesters or has she too much on her plate at the moment?
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 6:29 pm
@ Elaycee (5.18pm) – no prizes for guessing who was at the head of the protest; to mark this momentous occasion, there’s a Rent-a-Mob caption Contest running at Keeping Stock.
You can probably almost name who was there today; Minto, Joe Carolan, Penny Bright; who else?
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 6:42 pm
Minto and his band of pricks.
Vote:What does he do anyway? Is he on the dole?
July 28th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
Some think Blair was Hulun’s mentor, given the similarity of Blair’s Third Way and some of her designs.
Personally I don’t think he was, I think someone else was, but there’s no doubt Blair’s style and policies heavily influenced the way she conducted the 5th Liarbore govt and she used to visit him quite a lot, didn’t she.
Blair himself has proven to be precisely what I thought he was when he was in power. It’s increasingly evident from data the man was a lying scumbag over Iraq and if he lied over that what else has he done like that. I can think of a number of things but you’d never have noticed them at the time nor would now acknowledge they add up to any picture in anyway, if you’ve always thought of Blair as some sort of mostly straight player, so I won’t bother to enumerate cause who cares. I could be wrong, but the data so far come out, supports my view, more and more. Can’t argue with the data.
So I hope Blair, like Bush, just fades away and just doesn’t bother anyone anymore but while Bush has to cause he’s such an idiot, Blair wants to and probably will become, the first President of the EU. We haven’t seen the last of Tony, unfortunately.
Interesting comment on lefty thinking though wasn’t it, the protest. They are headline news as they knew they would, but what they don’t get, is their simple message doesn’t explain to anyone anything they didn’t already know. Of the subset of people who care about the issue, no-one has changed their minds, as a result. Silly lefties. They’re so mental.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
@ Fletch = Minto is a union organiser for Unite union – so his boss is the bloke who deducts tax from his employees, then doesn’t pass it on to IRD; “Honest Matt” McCarten.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Water Woman has a trough, not a plate
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
@Inventory2 – You could almost take a picture from the protest outside Eden Park today and replace it with one from the ASB Tennis Centre – the same old ugly mugs / same old placards / same old smell / same old breathless TV repeaters…. I really feel for the poor cops (and the local residents) who were today subjected to the crap being spouted through a megaphone by the long term dissident.
Instead of a caption contest, have you considered a contest to guessing the number of arrests between the motley lot? You’d have to give an allowance of +/- 10 arrests to make it fair though…..
Ha ha
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
I can’t say I really have an opinion about UK entering Iraq war, fake WMDs etc. But what pissed me off about this guy was his justification that he was doing God’s work – reminds me of a Frank Phelps style delusion.
I’m glad our PM doesn’t make policy based on what a bearded-man told him in a daydream.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:12 pm
I would have been more interested to hear his views on what role government plays on preventing collusion on price fixing, considering Visy was the sponsor in all. Or perhaps Amcor coughed up 50% of the sponsorship costs for a backroom deal
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
Regardless of the merits or otherwise of either the protest or the protesters themselves, isn’t it a statement of the times that all MSM chose to play that angle as part of their coverage. I’m guessing cause I haven’t seen or listened to all of them but I know RWL did it tonight and while I don’t watch either of them I also know both TV One and TV3 also did it. I’m really hoping NewsTalkZB didn’t but suspect they did. All of them, I suspect.
Meanwhile the poorly educated masses cheer madly at this important new wevewation bought to us by our very complicated but luckily sometimes almost understandable news channels, who dig so deeply and simplify so much, just so we can understand how vewy vewy important this Blair fellow really is, whoever he is, or was. Fuck let’s hope the sports is on soon. 20 mins of sheer bliss. I wonder what sport news is going to be like tomowwow night?
Yes people, this is why we blog, instead of watch telly. It’s the fault of the masses. Oh the humanity. Fuck I love MySky.
But what pissed me off about this guy was his justification that he was doing God’s work
tristan it may not be true. Doubt his constituency agent was Blair’s mentor. Maybe the rest of it’s just made up public bollocks as well.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:18 pm
Sorry, but if I have to choose between Teflon Tony and the rag-tag gaggle of far-left extremist lunatics who usually make up the bulk of the grievance industry, I’ll go with Tone all the way. And I don’t even like him!
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:19 pm
I wonder what Minto thinks about bosses who deduct PAYE, Kiwisaver etc from their staff’s wages, then spend it instead of passing it on to the IRD…
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:21 pm
I would have been more interested to hear his views on what role government plays…
on protecting individual rights against the power of the state. That would have been interesting, given the EU is in the process of starting to do precisely the opposite.
Exactly V2, let’s hope someone asks him on camera one day.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:22 pm
Last Friday evening I was in Auckland City with partner, daughter and grandkids. Minto walked down Victoria st in a real hurry. I was going to give him his pedigree, but decided not to involve young family.
Vote:You are so lucky Minto, you piece of shit low life commy arsehole
July 28th, 2011 at 7:28 pm
The mentality of the mob is incredible. Basically they’ve found a way to assault someone who’s politics they don’t like and make it sound like a moral act.
I’ve still got recorded somewhere Kim Hill’s interview with him. He easily beats away the critics, but that’s what happens when bloated fantasy means cold hard facts.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:35 pm
Blair’s belief that the “so called western values of democracy and freedom are in fact universal values, and we are seeing this take place through the (Arab) uprisings” – now that is revealing.
Some claim the whole point of multi-culturalism was a repudiation of cultural supremacism, now here Blair is saying western democratic society is evolving into one based on “universal” (imperial/post nationalist) values by becoming multi-cultural (taking in migrants, this fits with the meme of a EU labour market) … says a lot.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:35 pm
tristan it may not be true
My reading of the very article linked to as “proof” is that is most certainly *not* true. It’s a case of a provocative headline not being backed up by the story.
Essentially it seems to be saying that Blair’s religion meant that he had a very, very strong inclination to do what is right. Gosh, how evil – doing good!
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
scrubone anyone who thinks, thinks Minto is mental. He’s a screaming abrasive lefty commie arsehole. He’s so fucking self-righteous he thinks he has the right to be loud and abusive. Why he does this, I have no idea. What is it about people like this. If he had EVER raised awareness of a hitherto unknown or lessor known humanitarian issue worth noting, I would actually, support him.
But he has NEVER done that. NEVER. Instead he has merely voiced his perspective, forcibly and loudly and abusively. He has never taught anyone anything they didn’t already know. He has never explicated something or exposed any perspective that wasn’t already very well known amongst those who think.
All he’s ever done is got dumb people who think with their hearts emotionally worked up. He’s really good at that. Some of those who do give him credit I think probably do so because they think he’s “raising awareness” but FFS you mentals who do think that, the only awareness that counts is that which lies in the minds with the power to do something to change the situation and do you seriously think those people are hearing news whenever Minto says or does anything at all, protest-wise?
The idiots a good PR strategist but only cause the MSM is so fucking fucked in these parts, these days. He knows what they want which is emotive uncomplicated trivia and he gives it to them.
But the causes he claims to promote such as anti-poverty are serious difficult complicated issues and you can’t deal seriously and effectively with those with a megaphone and a few catch-phrase protest chants, can you.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
The question of whether Iraq and Afghanastan are or will be in the long term better off is an interesting one.
Both countries were, before the war, dominated by very, very evil regiemes. It’s easy to look at the mess both are now (or the mess we’re *told* they are) and pontificate about how things would have been better, but I believe most people making those pontifications have forgotten Saddam and the domination of the Taliban.
And of course, saying that “because we know this now the decision was wrong” ignore the reality that decisions are always made in the present, with the information we known *now*. We must remember that pretty much the entire world believed that Saddam had WMD and those who refused to join in the war were refusing to take them out of the hand of one of the most random tyrants in the world. I always remember hearing about the head of the Iraqi army waking up to be told that they invaded Kuwait last night…
But even while people forget Saddam, the forget even more easily that the status quo at the time was killing Iraqi civilians too. (Minto and his ilk won’t be protesting an Albright visit or trying a “citizens arrest” you can be sure) There was *no* “let’s ensure no one dies” option.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:50 pm
Sorry, the Kim Hill interview I was referring to was with Blair. That may not have been clear.
Minto, as far as I am concerned, is an ambassador for tyranny.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
I was going to give him his pedigree, but decided not to involve young family.
Please don’t.
I mean, wouldn’t it be wonderful if he spent his entire life with people ignoring him? Don’t give him the satisfaction of making himself a martyr in his own mind.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 8:24 pm
Reid says:
“the only awareness that counts is that which lies in the minds with the power to do something to change the situation and do you seriously think those people are hearing news whenever Minto says or does anything at all, protest-wise?”
Yes, I think they pay very close attention. Minto plays the game that is out there, rather than the game that you think should be played.
Vote:July 28th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
IV2…I am picking Minto would say to Matt McCarten, something along the lines of …you filthy thieving scumbag, you have ripped off your workers and are no better than a bullshitting tory boss..I am done with you you fucking hypocrite.
“Fred pass me my megaphone…thanks…..McCarten..SHAME, SHAME, SHAME…IF ANYONE WORKS FOR THIS DECEITFUL SHIT, WHO RIPPED OFF THE TAXPAYER AND HIS COLLEGUES, THEY DESERVE TO BE REAMED”….or something to that effect, if he was truthful to his cause.
Vote:Or perhaps he is also a lying deceitful piece of shit, just like Matt.
July 28th, 2011 at 9:14 pm
Chris politicians don’t listen to protesters they pretend to listen to voters except they don’t really they really listen to the people who give them their jobs and that’s not us, its their party hierarchy. Furthermore Minto’s protests tells them nothing they don’t already know. Furthermore Minto attracts a v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v small crowd or didn’t you notice the size of the numbers today? So how many politicians are going to be swayed by 15 or so voters, one way or the other?
Vote:July 29th, 2011 at 8:01 am
“Talked about Iraq and Afghanistan. He thinks both will still end up better off than if there had been no intervention, however is very worried about the meddling and influence of Iran.”
How can any country be better off after having been invaded by the USA and their hangers-on?
Vote:I’m more worried about the meddling by the USA and their hangers-on in Iraq and Afghanistan and now Libya.
Everywhere they go they cause misery.
July 29th, 2011 at 8:44 am
tedbear
Lets ask the French who they preferred: Hitler and the Nazis or the meddling Americans and their hangers on (you mean Aussies and Kiwis and Canadians)? Or the Philipinos? Their preference between the Japanese who starved, raped and pillaged or the Americans who liberated them?
Or the Dutch or the Belgians if they preferred the meddling of the Gestapo or the American meddling that left them free to elect their own governments? Or the inhabitants of countless Pacific islands who suffered from Japanese overlords? Or the Malaysians, the Burmese?
Ask the Panamanians who they preferred: a corrupt narco dictator or the current democratically elected President?
Do you think the Italians wished in their hearts that Mussolini stayed and the American didn’t meddle.
Tell us truthfully if ANY of these places were better off before the Americans liberated them and please please detail the misery the Americans caused when they did expend their own blood and treasure liberating these places.
Vote:July 29th, 2011 at 9:57 am
Tony Blair should be in the Hague or at least lynched on the street, not free to roam western country’s giving speeches.
Vote:July 29th, 2011 at 10:02 am
@kiwi in america (1,330) Says:
July 29th, 2011 at 8:44 am
“Lets ask the French who they preferred: Hitler and the Nazis or the meddling Americans and their hangers on (you mean Aussies and Kiwis and Canadians)? Or the Philipinos?”
KIA, take off your parochial blinkers for a while and compare apples with apples. Understandably, America has intervened only when her own interests have been at stake, so spare us the hero line. Comparing 1942 with 2003 is spectacularly obtuse.
Vote:July 29th, 2011 at 10:13 am
KIA: “Let’s ask the French.. Dutch, Belgians etc”
SC: “America has intervened only when her own interests have been at stake”
Of course. It’s a good situation when both parties benefit
Vote:July 29th, 2011 at 10:38 am
Kiwi in America
My reference to hangers-on refers to those who succumbed to Bush’s threat ‘you’re either with us or you’re against us.
I’m not talking about World Wars.
What I am talking about is those countries that USA has invaded illegally since Bush’s threat.
It’s no secret that many top USA officials think that they own and therefore have the right to just go and take the oil under the land of any country in the world.
The ‘meddling and influence of Iran’ that ‘worries’ Blair really means Iran might stuff up USA’s plan. Oh dear. Bugger.
You’ll have me crying in a minute k-i-a if you expect me to believe the loss of good ol boys’ blood is not part of the plan.
Vote:July 29th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
tedbear
You said “How can any country be better off after having been invaded by the USA” and “Everywhere they go they cause misery” and you couldn’t prove any country was worse off or where precisely they caused misery except to throw up a WW2 exemption.
Outside of WW2 there aren’t that many countries that the US invaded outside of Panama and Granada except of course Iraq and Afghanistan. The South Koreans and the South Vietnamese willingly asked for US troops to prevent both countries from being overrun by their northern Communist neighbours.
How do you think the Panamanians feel about the arrival of the Americans to oust Noriega?
So really you’re talking about Afghanistan and Iraq. In the case of Afghanistan the Americans asked the Taliban to give up the al Qaida terrorists they were harbouring who perpetrated 9/11 on pain of invasion. Sounds like the casus belli of pretty much most the the wars in human history. Were they all illegal or are only certain wars bad? Was the removal of the Nazis, Fascists and Japanese by the Allies bad? No of course not but then you just granted a WW2 exemption to your sweeping assertion.
So that really leaves Iraq. Since you claim that the US just invaded Iraq for its oil, answer this question. What percentage of the oil mineral rights in Iraq are owned by US oil companies? And then last question – what was the UN Security Council vote on UNSC Resolution 1441 that threatened “serious consequences” for continued non-compliance with the weapons inspections regime?
Answers: 3% and 15 – 0 (unanimous).
“Last month, the Iraqi government held its second round of auctions for its oil fields. Mid-month, seven fields were awarded to international oil companies. American companies did not win any new leases in this round, but Petronas, a state-owned Malaysian company; Sonangol, of Angola; and Lukoil of Russia and Statoil of Norway did. Petronas and Shell won the the Majnoon field with more than 12 billion barrels of oil; and Petronas, CNPC of China and Total (French) got Halfiya, in the south, with 4 billion barrels. Last week, it was reported that Lukoil and Statoil had actually signed for their West Qurna oil field, much faster than BP and China signed for the Rumaila oil field this summer.” http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2010/01/04/iraq%E2%80%99s-oil-leases-and-the-world-market/
Its a bugger when the truth gets in the way of the anti-war left’s world view. Oh and do you really think the average Iraqi thinks that they were better off under Saddam Hussein – unless they were in his inner circle. Do you really think Iraqis would trade their free elections since the war for the Iranian Islamic theocracy because that is what Iran seeks with its meddling in Iraq.
Vote:July 29th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
kia, it can be argued that it was known by both DC and No 10 that the WMD existence was a bluff to intimidate local opposition and the Iranians. But they knew of no other way to end the sanctions policy without removing the local tyrant – so they exploited the farce over weapons inspections – the local tyrants non compliance in pretence that he had something to hide used to get the UN Resolution 1441.
Now the oil leaves Iraq via private companies and much of the once socialist state assets are up for sale – and the country can no longer defend itself from Iran (as it couild pre sanctions) and is dependent on collective security help from those it supplies oil to.
So don’t imply what the Americans did was for Iraqis to benefit from – it was simply a realisation that the longer a once significant oil exporter was under sanctions the more unstable the world would get economically. There was probably also the hope that if Iraq was normalised then Iran would follow – not by military conflict but after the removal of an enemy regime in Iraq it might become a less militant state externally and internally (this is not yet working). Similarly there was the belief that free trade with China would democratise that state (also not yet working).
Now the Americans are so much weaker economically neither Iran or China feels compelled to take the End of History PNAC line seriously.
The Tea Party obstructionist line and general Republican Party intransigence over tax increases underlines this trend into decline.
Vote:July 29th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
SPC
If Saddam Hussein had nothing to hide then why did he play cat and mouse with weapons inspectors for over a decade. Amongst the 15 UNSC members who voted for 1441 are plenty of countries not known to do America’s bidding.
The instability of the supply of oil is the world’s problem – not just part of American interest. Any person who drives a car or uses plastic products anywhere in the world – including little ol New Zealand has a vested interest in the smooth flow of oil. Disruptions to supply, especially in the Middle East, cause very damaging spikes in oil prices. OPEC’s restriction of supply after the Yom Kippur War of 1973 led to a tripling of crude oil prices plunging the whole Western world into a recession.
Freshman Republicans were elected in a landslide in 2010 to not raise taxes and reign in spending. It is Obama and the Democrats who want to enlarge the size of the state and demand tax increases to fund it. If the IRS raised the marginal rate to 100% on the ‘rich’ (ie those earning over $250k), it still wouldn’t make a dent in the deficit. In democracies it is hoped that elected representatives go to the legislature to do the job they promised to do. But of course to progressives whose agenda is ever bigger government, breaking promises to achieve that bigger goal is just realpolitik. It is Obama that is having to do the moving on this issue as the GOP stays reasonably firm. There will be a debt ceiling deal and neither side will like it but there wont be any tax increases in whatever deal emerges – even Reid’s nascent plan in the Senate is sans tax increases.
Vote:July 29th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
Scott Chris
Vote:Every war ever fought involvesdthe participants doing so in their national interest – you make it sound like its a unique American invention.
July 29th, 2011 at 8:39 pm Vote:
July 30th, 2011 at 12:25 am
kia, did you read my post – I explained why the Iraqi regime did what it did and why it was played the way it was.
I’ll just repeat what I wrote.
It can be argued that it was known by both DC and No 10 that the WMD existence was a bluff to intimidate local opposition and the Iranians. But they knew of no other way to end the sanctions policy without removing the local tyrant – so they exploited the farce over weapons inspections – the local tyrants non compliance in pretence that he had something to hide used to get the UN Resolution 1441.
As for Republicans expecting to cut government (including programmes the poor are dependent on) to the level required to meet their debt repayments without even reversing past tax cuts for the rich or closing off tax loop holes, voodoo economics – and it will undermine American credibility as a super power – inflation at Rome, lead in the tea cups …
Vote: