Maori participation in tertiary education

July 29th, 2011 at 9:57 am by David Farrar

Elizabeth Binning at NZ Herald reports:

More than 200 tertiary providers will meet in Auckland today to find ways of getting more students into tertiary education.

That’s an interesting goal. Here are the latest tertiary education participation rates (2009) for four ethnic groups, alphabetically – Asians, Europeans, Maori and Pasifika.

In order of best to worst, here are the four participation rates – 17%, 13%, 12%, 11%.

Your challenge is to match them up.

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42 Responses to “Maori participation in tertiary education”

  1. CJPhoto (182 comments) says:

    My guess:

    Asians – 17%, Europeans – 12%, Maori – 13%, and Pasifika – 11%

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  2. Grizz (474 comments) says:

    Quality not quantity. A BQuad does not count.

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  3. petulantpacifist (12 comments) says:

    Maori, Asian, Pasifika then European, but its worth noting that, for bachelor’s degrees (what most people think of when you say tertiary), the descending order is Asian, European, Maori, then Pasifika.

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  4. jaba (2,068 comments) says:

    Maori should be the 17% .. they have a lower threshold for entry and fees are either free or subsidised .. that is what I have been told so??

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  5. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    DPF

    Must admit I cheated and found the stats.
    Surprising indeed.
    The data sure dismisses a lot of pre-conceived ideas.

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  6. Murray (8,835 comments) says:

    Simple, get their parents to stop them they are entitled to everythign and they will have to work to achieve.

    Look at the samples and see if you can see which group has parents that do that already.

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  7. Andrei (2,428 comments) says:

    Easy fix just expand the number of Bullshit degrees that can be awarded – my goodness we are well down the well trodden path already.

    Trouble is in the real world no body needs fricken gender studies graduates so they all end up as policy analysists in the Public Service and ‘twould be the same for the expanded degree base.

    Still it would could help lower the unemployment stats by hiding the more well heeled beneficiaries in the Public Service writing important policy documents that nobody ever reads. And that would be probably just as well too because heaven help us when they do get taken seriously this country gets even more screwed up.

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  8. Nigel (503 comments) says:

    I heard Nga Tahu are putting a huge emphasis on Tertiary education & the sciences, good on them I reckon, maybe Hone should open his eyes to how other tribes are planning to be successful as we get further into the 21st century & it’s not his handout mentality.

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  9. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    Getting more students into tertiary education is only a fraction of the equation. It’s the number that graduate, and the quality & relevance of their credentials which far, far more important both for them and for NZ

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  10. David Farrar (1,808 comments) says:

    Krazykiwi. I agree. And I am all for improving the pass rates of Maori (and non-Maori) tertiary students, and the quality of the courses they undertake. But point I was making is that simply saying we need more Maori in tertiary education, is not the case.

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  11. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    DPF – Quite so. Our education system has a finite capacity. The best results will be realised when those most committed to achieving results are admitted. So admitting students on the basis of any other characteristic (ethnicity, private funding etc) has the effect of limiting access to the most ambitious. I should add that ambition and desire to ‘do stuff’ with ones life aren’t exclusive attributes of grads. I left our college and drove a truck… before founding a few businesses :)

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  12. ben (2,385 comments) says:

    Who says more is better in tertiary education? There is a ton of international literature that suggests over investment in tertiary education as it is. Whoever is coming last may be on to something.

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  13. Kimble (4,092 comments) says:

    All the racists out there should support efforts to get more Maori into tertiary education, expecially if that involves things like:

    1. quotas
    2. lower entry standards
    3. lower on-going requirements
    4. Maori-specific degrees
    5. Maori specific institutions
    6. special rewards for Maori graduates

    All of these will help devalue the degrees held by all Maoris. So if you suggest any of these ‘solutions’, you will be identifying yourself as a racist.

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  14. mikenmild (8,721 comments) says:

    I’m with ben. We already send too many people to university for mediocre results.

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  15. questlove (241 comments) says:

    More than 200 tertiary providers will meet in Auckland today to find ways of getting more Maori students into tertiary education.

    Judging by the rest of the article I think it’s referring to the 18-24 year age bracket – in which Maori participation rates are still comparatively lower and also the fact that Maori have a much lower participation rates in Bachelor and higher degree courses.

    However, much of the increase in Māori participation has been in sub-degree level courses. In 2008, the Māori participation rate in level 1 to 3 certificate courses (9 per cent) was nearly double that of other ethnic groups. The number of Māori moving from school to degree-level study is increasing; however, participation rates for Māori aged 18 to 19 in degree-level study remain at less than half the rate for all students.

    http://www.minedu.govt.nz/theMinistry/PublicationsAndResources/AnnualReport/AnnualReport09/PartOne/EducationAndTransformation.aspx

    Also completion rates should be another area of concern as Maori completion rates for Bachelor degrees and higher are also comparatively lower than the total population.

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  16. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    I know our local Iwi trust offer scholarships for tertiary education, my sons have been offered them to use if they so wish. My wife and myself have refused such help, we don’t wish to be beholding to any group, it favors certain “outcomes”. If the kids want to further their education they can do it off their own backs with our help.

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  17. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    My wife and myself have refused such help, we don’t wish to be beholding to any group, it favors certain “outcomes”.

    In what ways would you be beholden? Companies that offer scholarships will oblige the recipient to work for them afterwards sometimes, is this what this Iwi wants?

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  18. Kimble (4,092 comments) says:

    Also completion rates should be another area of concern as Maori completion rates for Bachelor degrees and higher are also comparatively lower than the total population.

    Thats a symptom, not the problem. WHY are Maori completion rates lower? If you cannot answer this quesiton then you have zero chance of finding a successful solution.

    But I warn again, watering down the requirements (which are already laughingly low) will not help Maori any more than would posting them all out “honorary” degrees as part of a Treaty settlement.

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  19. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    will not help Maori any more than would posting them all out “honorary” degrees as part of a Treaty settlement.

    Oh no… you’ve just given the grievance industry an idea …

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  20. mikenmild (8,721 comments) says:

    Looking at the article, I think this was a somewhat mischevious post. The article headline is about tripling the number of Maori getting degrees. The line about more Maori in tertiary education doesn’t seem to be borne out by the remainder of the article. So the issue is achievement rather than participation.

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  21. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    http://www.minedu.govt.nz/theMinistry/PublicationsAndResources/AnnualReport/AnnualReport09/PartOne/EducationAndTransformation.aspx
    An estimated 17 per cent of all working Māori and 15 per cent of all working Pasifika were participating in industry training. This compared with 7 per cent for European/Pākehā workers and 11 per cent for all other worker
    This is a very good sign for the future

    As to the number in tertiary education the rise in Maori participation seems to correlate to the rise in certificate level courses
    A break down of certificate level courses would give a better understanding of their potential value

    “statistics lies……………”

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  22. questlove (241 comments) says:

    WHY are Maori completion rates lower?

    The will be numerous factors contributing to this though studies do show that Maori students involved in mentoring programmes are more likely to finish their course than Maori students who don’t (at the same institution). So it’s evident that investing in these types of support strategies improves the retention and completion rates of Maori students in tertiary education.

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  23. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    @ben at 10:46 makes a good point. This economist story picks up on the idea of an Education Bubble…

    Higher education. The Latest Bubble

    ON September 2nd 2010 I wrote a mischievous column (“Declining by degree”) likening America’s universities to its car companies in about 1950: on top of the world and about to take an almighty fall. Since then I have heard the argument dismissed and denounced by the presidents of Harvard, Princeton and New York University. John Sexton, NYU’s affable president, even likened me to a member of the tea party, for which there is no more damning condemnation in academic circles.

    So I am particularly delighted to read Peter Thiel’s latest thoughts on the higher-education bubble. Mr Thiel, the co-founder of PayPal and a legendary investor, has a long history of identifying bubbles. He insisted on striking a deal, against everybody’s advice, when the market valued PayPal at “only” $500m, on the ground that the dotcom bubble was about to burst (this was March 2000). He refused to buy property until recently, figuring that the dotcom bubble had simply shifted to housing.

    Mr Thiel believes that higher education fills all the criteria for a bubble: tuition costs are too high, debt loads are too onerous, and there is mounting evidence that the rewards are over-rated. Add to this the fact that politicians are doing everything they can to expand the supply of higher education (reasoning that the “jobs of the future” require college degrees), much as they did everything that they could to expand the supply of “affordable” housing, and it is hard to see how we can escape disaster.

    Here is Sarah Lacy’s summary of Mr Thiel’s argument about the safety-blanket role of higher education:

    Like the housing bubble, the education bubble is about security and insurance against the future. Both whisper a seductive promise into the ears of worried Americans: Do this and you will be safe. The excesses of both were always excused by a core national belief that no matter what happens in the world, these were the best investments you could make. Housing prices would always go up, and you will always make more money if you are college educated.”

    Mr Thiel’s own solution to the problem befits a man with money and a mission: he is offering 20 students $100,000 scholarships, over two years, to leave school and start a company rather than enter college.

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  24. vibenna (305 comments) says:

    As DPF knows, his figures include wananga and other sub-degree courses. Let’s look at participation rates for degrees instead. Here they are, from the same resource used by DPF, for: Asian; Europeans; Maori; Pasifika respectively.

    Bachelors: 49; 34; 28; 29
    Masters: 4.7; 2.9, 2.3; 1.4
    Doctorates: 2.1;1.4; 0.7; 0.5

    These figures show that Maori (the third column) have just 80% of the participation rate for Bachelors degrees and Master degrees, and 50% of the rate for doctorates. For Pasifika participation is 85%, 48% and 36% of the European rate.

    To quote John Maynard Keynes: “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? “

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  25. AlphaKiwi (684 comments) says:

    Quadruple the fees for most BA courses.

    Double the fees for most BBus courses.

    Remove fees for most of the science and health science courses and bond the graduates to work in NZ for 8-10 years.

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  26. Paulus (2,289 comments) says:

    Perhaps the new “Maori” college being built in Tauranga will help.

    Opens next year with 400 Maori students. Huge construction site currently.

    Maori will be bussed from far parts to attend. Will be interesting to see in time the number of ‘apartheid” educated children get to “real” university from there. No doubt education figures will be fudged.

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  27. mikenmild (8,721 comments) says:

    Paulus might think Maori achievement is being deliberately understated as part of a left-wing scheme to get more money for ‘apartheid’ systems.

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  28. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    Milky, if a school only accepts students based on their ethnicity then it’s an apartheid system. No different from having two bridges, one for whites and one for everyone else which we thankfully all regard as absurd and demeaning. So why the inconsistency?

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  29. mikenmild (8,721 comments) says:

    kk

    Do NZ schools exclude anyone based on ethnicity?

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  30. kowtow (6,684 comments) says:

    Otago University has a racist entry admissions policy for 2nd year law.

    See para 1 (h) in the link below.

    http://www.otago.ac.nz/courses/qualifications/llb.html

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  31. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    mm – don’t know. I hadn’t heard of the Tauranga college Paulus mentioned. That’s what piqued my interest, and also why I started with ‘If …’

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  32. annie (533 comments) says:

    Easy.

    1. Get them through primary school able to read and write fluently and do arithmetic.

    2. Get them through high school reasonably numerate and able to write a reasonably sound essay.

    In other words, if schools stuck to their educational knitting and actually made sure kids who attended could do the basics, they’d have no trouble getting into tertiary education, including quality tertiary education.

    Parents can play their part by insisting their schools toe the line. Write to the board members, the education review office, minister of education, newspapers and bitch if it’s not being done.

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  33. Dazzaman (1,114 comments) says:

    Apartheid….pft

    From memory the South African blacks/coloureds/asians didn’t have much, if any, say in the “separate development” imposed upon them.

    Go on, make up another term.

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  34. questlove (241 comments) says:

    Otago University has a racist entry admissions policy for 2nd year law.

    Would you prefer if they made familiarity with Maori culture a core requirement for everyone?

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  35. starboard (2,447 comments) says:

    So if I applied for a place at the maori college in Tauranga would they say no because I am non-maori?

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  36. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    No silly to be a Maori you only have to identify as Maori
    with your views you would go mad in the first term

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  37. starboard (2,447 comments) says:

    well if gets me near the gravy train just call me starboard-nui from now on…tin of cocoa tin of cocoa..

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  38. Rodders (1,790 comments) says:

    “with your views you would go mad in the first term”

    Too late, in starboard’s case ;)

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  39. starboard (2,447 comments) says:

    ‘evenin Rodders..hows the anal fissure and wonky prostate.

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  40. Rodders (1,790 comments) says:

    Evening starboard. No problems to report.
    Plenty of wire wool tonight, to go down with your dinner?

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  41. Viking2 (10,687 comments) says:

    Being built in Bethlehem much to the locals disgust but nothing they can do. With any luck the locals will go there and that will up the relative quality at the other schools.
    Ill wind and all that.

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  42. tas (527 comments) says:

    Sometimes I feel like setting up a $500 scholarship that is only available to non-Maori students. It would be a great protest against all the scholarships only available to Maori. Need, not race!!

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