You conveniently overlook that only ONE New Zealand political party has ever proposed a Youth Mitigation of Unemployment measure.
And that party is the perennial whipping boy of the main stream media.
Imagine, for a moment, if Hillary Calvert had, in a deceitful manner, mishandled the wages tax funds held in trust for her employees.
She would be hung.
She would be drawn.
She would be quartered.
Why, oh why, does our main stream media loathe, hate and despise that particular political party.
NEW ZEALAND NATIONAL-LED GOVT. DOWN BUT HAS WINNING LEAD: 55.5% cf. 44.5%
Federal Poll : Finding No. 4693 : This latest New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll on voting intention was conducted by telephone with a NZ wide cross-section of 921electors from July 25 – August 7, 2011. Of all electors surveyed 8.5% (unchanged) didn’t name a party. : August 11, 2011
The latest New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll shows support for Prime Minister John Key’s National-led Government is at 55.5% (down 2%). Support for Key’s National Party is 51.5% (down 0.5%), ACT NZ 2% (unchanged), the Maori Party 1.5% (down 1.5%), and United Future 0.5% (unchanged).
Support for Opposition Parties is at 44.5% (up 2%) – Labour Party 32% (up 0.5%), Greens 7% (down 0.5%), New Zealand First 4% (up 1.5%), Mana Party 0.5% (unchanged) and Others 1% (up 0.5%).
If a National Election were held today the National Party would easily be returned to Government.
The latest New Zealand Roy Morgan Government Confidence Rating has risen 0.5 points to 128 with 57% (up 0.5%) of New Zealanders saying New Zealand is ‘heading in the right direction’ compared to 29% (unchanged) that say New Zealand is ‘heading in the wrong direction.’
Tauhei – That same party has proposed we introduce transferable educations vouchers, and it is branded as fascist far-right pack of extremists by the MSM despite this policy working in Sweden…. the socialist state that has lefties all dewy-eyed in admiration.
Back on topic, we should have no minimum wages. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
Talk about killing people with kindness! I for one don’t think we’ve been benevolent enough. For example, if they have babies they should rather be afforded the option to eat them, and then, (and only then) if they can produce a correctly signed certificate to WINZ to prove they have consumed said offspring, they might be entitled to some free cake, but only if it is to be redeemed by a properly certified voucher, in designated retail outlets. Under supervision. Failure to comply could result in branding a ‘OT’ on their foreheads h(OT = Oxygen Thief) Only then an we be sure that we can avert the rioting we saw in the UK by all those teachers assistants, millionaire’s daughters and others who completely failed to live up to the archetypical image we all like to hold of unemployed youth, hoodies and, (let’s not forget) – niggas.
Andrei. The two situations source cannot be compared.
In Syria large numbers of people were peacefully protesting against the government. The government then sent in an armed response, and the violence has stemmed from there. Even so, I do not believe that there is widespread looting there. The people are defending themselves from armed government force deployed to stop them protesting.
In London, a small number of people were peacefully protesting the shooting of Duggan. Those protests were then hijacked by hooligans in order to burn cars and loot. That looting triggered copycat wanton mayhem once the hooligans saw the police response was muted. A more severe Police response is warranted since the ‘protesting’ is proving to be violent, wanton and out of control.
Just watching close up about feeding kids breakfast, the socialists must be rubbing their hands with glee. Another generation beholding to the state. Give it time they will be feeding the youths, poor dears can’t get job. I sometimes wonder if our greatest problem are those that believe they do Gods work.
Andrei – you are bang on. People just use the riots to carry on pushing whatever hobby horse they had before. In this case youth rates.
DPF – your argument would be great if a lot of the rioters were, like, unemployed or something. Have you checked that? I think you’ll find a lot of them weren’t. Some of the UK media are reporting that people left work to get a bit of the action. And quite a lot seem to have been school kids.
While I do actually agree with low minimum wages to get more youth employed (supplemented by government funding if need be, since I’d rather see it go there than benefits), Nick R is completely correct that most of the rioters do not seem to be disenfranchised unemployed beneficiaries as most of those ‘not in the know’ seem to automatically assume.
Examples, an apprentice teacher, an estate agent, a second-year law student, many more students, masses of school children from the ages of 11 through to 18, a millionaire’s daughter, a youth Olympic ambassador.
It’s disgusting. And frankly, while I’m sure that a lot of the looters WERE from benefit families, I would by no way assume they were even close to being all of them. The main demographic seems to be teenagers. If they were beneficiaries, it would be easier to say that the riots were politically motivated.
…if you think there are not low life taking advantage of Syrian civil disorder
Don’t you mean the shootings or the arrests Andrei? Or the torture one is sure is happening. I think probably I’d protest against that myself, if it happened here.
Nah those riots were an opportunistic moment but it’s changed the climate now and the authorities already know what they did wrong. They have admitted they weren’t quick and hard enough early on and they’ll definitely do that next time.
I’ve mentioned Britons are the most surveilled people on Earth and heard on radio today your average Briton is captured 33 times a day on the 1.3 million cameras they have around the nation. Also they’re using facial recognition biometric technology to find the villains in the crowd. That’s handy isn’t it.
You could easily create software that raises alerts if riot like movement was detected anywhere on any of those 1.3 million cameras, were they networked together, which if they aren’t, they will be soon. That’s again pretty handy, isn’t it.
And they’ll just pull the plug on all the social media sites, at the first sign of it.
What’s worse though is it could happen in one of the major urban poor areas in an American city, because they have weapons.
Is this a sign of the times, like the beginning of the crowd riots in the 29-33 Weimar period, just world-wide?
Probably not, unless the idiots in charge do something really foolish, but of course that’s not going to happen.
“To make matters worse, the political class has disarmed law-abiding people, thus exacerbating the risks. These two photos are a pretty good summary of what this means. On the left, we have Korean entrepreneurs using guns to defend themselves from murdering thugs during the 1992 LA riots. On the right, we have Turkish entrepreneurs reduced to using their fists (and some hidden knives, I hope) to protect themselves in London.”
From the top two results from google on Murder rates. First one shows the US has a youth murder rate 11 times higher than the UK and a firearm murder rate 30 times higher than the UK (no total murder rate). Wikipedia has the US about 4 times higher than the UK
True Reid. My point with, admittedly, a hint of sarcasm is that the behaviour should not be excused.
But as you point out there will be debate as to underlying causes and an important one at that.
For mine the issue was starkly displayed as a mother hurled abuse at media after leaving court with her 12 year old kid having been convicted of burglary. There is an underclass where working and self responsibility is a foreign concept.
The Right will say that is a result of benefit dependence, the Left that more money needs to be spent and in the meantime the underclass continues to breed…
Points well made Reid. My concern regarding DPF’s connection (and I agree with his theory about youth rates in general) is that the types who are rioting in Britain and I see day in day out as Duty Solicitor don’t want to and don’t know how to work.
Me: “You working?”
Me: “so looking for work then?”
Punter ” um, off and on”
Me: “So what are you doing?”
Punter: “um, well, you know, it’s hard”
Courage Wolf – “Kind of like Christians who believe that premarital sex and homosexuality will result in the downfall of society.”
Of course because every straight man secretly wants to suck off other men and if homosexuality is tolerated then the world will turn into one big gay night club and no more babies will be created and then Jesus will return and everything will be destroyed!
The US has it’s firearms 2nd amendment more from their belief in individual freedom than from a belief it would reduce crime.
I think you’ll find that the vast majority of people in the UK and NZ are firmly against the general population having almost unrestricted access to firearms like in the US. I have a licence and own a firearm, and I strongly believe I should be licensed, and would even support registration of individual guns.
But to the original topic, the economic theory linking increased minimum wage to increased unemployment is pretty universally accepted, except by a few people that cling on to dodgy empirical data. But like a few others have mentioned, I don’t think that contributed to the riots. The UK has a large proportion of people who have a sense of entitlement and believe they have no responsibility to society. “The state owes me a living, but I resent working for it”. They turn down job centre jobs because they are too demeaning, or they carry a condescending attitude when working in what they consider ‘low’ positions. And benefit fraud is merely topping up what they should be getting.
“Dusky (50) Says: – “While I do actually agree with low minimum wages to get more youth employed (supplemented by government funding if need be, since I’d rather see it go there than benefits)”
Why is such “government funding” not a “benefit” in your view?”
Easy. Because in my own take of benefits and beneficiaries, they are handouts that are given for nothing. Government supplementing a lower paywage to encourage companies to take on employees with less experience/fortunate backgrounds would reduce the situation you get where many beneficiaries stay out of work because they are financially better off that way. I can’t even remember what it’s like in New Zealand anymore, but in UK it’s a pretty big thing that it is simply not worth it to go out and work for less money.
I fervently believe it is important to be in work, not just for finance, but also for feelings of self-worth, but while there is a situation where people can ‘earn’ more money by doing nothing, most WILL continue to do nothing.
So on the topic of the government adding extra to a paycheck for those on minimum funding, I don’t consider it a ‘benefit’ so much as a ‘supplementary income’.
Surely you’d rather see the government add a little to a paycheck than see them hand over the entire paycheck and have the person remain out of work for an indefinite period of time?
Dusky – Fair enough position I’m just being pedantic. Seems to me that even though you may work for *some* money, any supplemental income does not actually represent work, therefore it’s a benefit in my view. The money is given for the social welfare of the recipient. The employer, after all, doesn’t care about the supplemental income. They are motivated by the reduced price of employment.
When I was a pimply faced teen age I was not worth my pay.
If you run a low skilled work force you are trying to make a living. You employ the most efficient labor units you can. you will only employ youths if the cost of teaching them first to work and then do the job is less than of an already trained adult.It is not so you do not employ them
Although I agree that the minimum wage should be eliminated the people that are being dragged through the courts are mainly EMPLOYED! They have charged teachers, youth workers, opera ushers and all sorts. So the left wing bullshit that it was led by disaffected youth took a complete battering when those figures came out!
Still, it is rather nice watching the news seeing police smashing their doors in and pulling them out of their houses, one by one.
I work in retail and have a number of young people come to us looking for work. Our employer pays well above minimum wage for sales staff in order to attract the best people. In fact, for doing the same work, my pay from my old employer to my new employer was an increase of $20k.
We are not likely to employ a fresh faced kid straight of the street. But if that kid has worked, even part time, for the local warehouse and shows a level of motivation and PROVEN ability, then we would give that young person a go, and we have never paid youth rates.
Now, youth rates can and do offer a stepping stone into valued employment, while teaching young people about the value of work. They are valuable, viable, and open the doors to opportunties that young people simply do not get at present. A job with $8 per hour has prospects, and a weekly income of $320. For a teenager, likely living at home, that is more than suffucient and much better than half that amount, for doing sod all, with no future prospects other than sireing indolent offspring for profit.
I’m not sure that looking to pay less the the way to improve opportunities. a minimum wage may have some effect on employment – it’s not exactly a settled debate, but the availability of suitable jobs and training are likely to have a much greater influence on employment outcomes for young people.
Didn’t National have a ‘Youth Guarantee’ to help with this? How’s that going?
Do you actually wish me to die at the hands of a mongol Horde?
Do you actually even acknowledge the fact that I, as the son of immigrant parents, grasped the opportunities afforded me by the education systems in this country.
Do you acknowledge the fact that I pay taxes to help fund these opportunities for others, and constantly despair at the apathy of thse who fail to take them up.
Do you know what, I don’t care anymore. I have spent 100s of thousands of dollars of tax money, and see the opportunities that they create wasted by so many who continue to hold their hands out for more, rather than bettering themselves to help the next generation. I have spent 10s of thousands of my own money to go and help needy in the third world. Not for others to help them, but to actually go to africa and do volunteer work.
And what do I get? Veiled threats. You sir, are an ungrateful moron who doesn’t even understand the nature of the help we give.
The mongol hordes will be after all of our asses if we don’t do anything about unemployed youth.
New Zealand businesses are small, 90% employing less than 5 employees. A common complaint found in these businesses is that the cost of labour restricts growth and reduces profitability. Employers would employ more staff if they could afford them, but there is little flexibility in the labour market.
Employers would hire more young people straight out of college if they could afford them, and that is the end of the spectrum that we need to look at.
I am totally in favour of a youth rate for employees under 18. This rate could be set at $10.00 per hour, which is not an unreasonable figure. The government could contribute by lowering the tax rate to 15%.
It is not difficult.