HMNZS National
October 14th, 2011 at 3:00 pm by David FarrarIn my Herald column I ask whether the HMNZS National will be able to get off the reef. The beginning:
I was asked at a speaking engagement a couple of weeks ago whether the election was a foregone conclusion, as there was such a lead in the polls for National. My response was to quote former United Kingdom Prime Minister Harold Macmillan and say “Events, dear boy, events”. This famous quote was Macmillan’s response to the question of what is most likely to blow a Government off course. And the blowing of the Rena off course onto a reef near Tauranga most definitely is an event.
October 14th, 2011 at 3:15 pm
this is annoying .. the telly and papers are looking for pissed of locals and asking them what they think about things related to this disaster. These people are talking on emotion, not facts. Most, if not all, are arm-chair critics who know fk all about these things.
Vote:If any think that Goff and his bunch would do better then god help us all
October 14th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
Sheesh, if Labour were really sincere, their MP’s would be there rolling up their sleeves day after day, digging up the sand. Now that would really make National look bad!
Good point jaba, the media coverage of endless talking to the helpless locals is emotive and not helpful moving forward trying to fix the problem.
Today’s DomPost’s front-page negative lead story today (about this being front page news around the world during the RWC, especially as there is no connection) doesn’t help matters either (that’s odd – can’t locate the article online).
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
This is true.
A few of my peeps on Facebook – who are usually not very interested in political things – have picked up on this feeling that Somehow the government should/could have “fixed this” faster.
As a leftie I could care less.
As a professional engineer, it is disappointing to see that lay people lack the critical faculty to even attempt to think through the idea that it might be quite difficult to:
(1) approach a half-broken-up giant container ship in heavy seas,
(2) get on board without being crushed by falling containers, and
(3) somehow pump the oil off into another ship.
Apparently these are easy things to do, and any competent PM could have got this done days ago. FFS…
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
When the hell did your party join up David?
Feel fee to use SS.
People who work for a living serve in our warships, not bloody politicans.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
RRM>Apparently these are easy things to do, and any competent PM could have got this done days ago. FFS…
I hope that we don’t end up in a position where the media-driven response to any future disaster is to rush in randomly, just in case amateurs criticise a government for being too slow. At Pike River, rescuers were supposed to have rushed in to the mine, and the fact that a second explosion might have doubled the death toll is of no apparent importance. You’ve described the difficulties of safe salvage. It seems there was a plan, the plan has been executed, and the plan involves expertise of the type that can really only exist overseas… but that isn’t good enough for the airmchair disaster consultants.
I’ll also add that no government is going to have a full time spill response capability at all ports. I watched the inter-island ferry coming in to Wellington this morning, but didn’t see a fleet of oil pumping and cleanup vessels ready to spring in to action if the ferry had decided to emulate the Wahine. That’d just be silly, but those ships and full time response crews would have been needed to satisfy the SLA demands of amateur commentators if there had been a spill in the harbour.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
One odd thing about the Rena disaster is that one group of people are upset that the disaster has killed birds, while another is upset that the disaster means they’re NOT able to kill fish.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
I hope that we don’t end up in a position where the media-driven response to any future disaster is to rush in randomly, just in case amateurs criticise a government for being too slow.
I have a real concern about that too. “Blame!” seems to come before “What actually happened?” these days.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Face it RRM the authorities are incompetant. The Standard says so, Frogblog says so, Brian Rudman says so, BECAUSE THEY HAD 72 HOURS OF DOING NOTHING (capslock is important). Logic and proof isn’t entering into it.
Note- Full day of fine weather today and they are still finding it hard to get anything off. Perhaps it’s not quite that simple.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 4:45 pm
“Maritime NZ admits it could have acted faster”
Vote:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10758979
October 14th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
David is correct in his assessment: Lack of communication is really the major screwup here. The ChCh earthquake had Bob Parker who, regardless of whether one thinks he’s a good mayor or not, stepped up and took on the role of chief communicator, to the point that people started to get sick of him. This is what we are still missing here and why there’s been so much annoyance from the public.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 5:11 pm
@RRM 3:37 pm
I’m not an engineer, and I’ve acknowledged on another thread here that my experience of salvage extends no further than recovering my stepson’s capsized dingy.
I agree with you that nothing could have practicably be done re salvage in the heavy seas since the weather packed up on Monday.
But surely if a vessel with the capacity to offload the oil had arrived at the scene by, say, noon last Friday when there was calm weather and little swell, most if not all the oil could have been pumped off by Sunday before the bad weather set in. And surely two and a half days from the grounding at 2am on Wednesday should have been sufficient time to do the necessary engineering and safety assessments to allow the removal of the oil to safely proceed.
Given that the Awanuia was able to commence the oil retrieval almost as soon as it finally arrived on Sunday, even though the worsening weather made that operation short-lived, my concern is that Maritime NZ didn’t appear to have the capacity (or the will) to get a vessel capable of recovering the oil there quickly enough.
I agree there is probably stuff all more that could have been done to secure/salvage the containers.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 5:16 pm
Actually, DPF, I think MV National would, for more than one reason, have been a more appropriate title for this post.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
toad, have you not read that some pipes in the ship were damaged, making pumping the oil earlier impractical?
Vote:I had been thinking along the same lines as you until I read that.
October 14th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
@ Toad; you’re actually off-beam here. There was significant damage to the pipework within the Rena after the grounding on Astrolabbe Reef. That was the cause of the initial oil spill which caused all this angst. Even if a fleet of oil tankers had been comandeered, no oil would have been able to be pumped from the Rena’s bunkers until repairs to her piping and pumping systems had been effected, the motors restarted and the bunker oil heated to viscosity.
That of course hasn’t stopped a variety of MP’s getting on the bandwagon (with Gareth Hughes at the head of the queue); indeed as recently as yesterday, Hughes was publicly stating that oil could have been being pumped from the Rena from Day One. Patently, that is not correct, and Gareth Hughes is either uninformed or making mischief for political gain. I’ll be charitable and suggest it’s the former.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
@ RightNow; snap!
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
toad:
In the immediate aftermath we were told that the oil tanks were fine, but the piping, which is located in the keel, was damaged. So prematurely attempting to pump the oil off would have seen it leaking everywhere. So the government has a choice of being too slow or ignoring advice and pumping oil into the sea. Since you criticize National for being too slow, I take it that you support pumping oil into the sea, no?
Here is the latest: http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/rena-crisis/5783705/Rena-salvage-Preparations-to-pump-oil
It seems that now they are going to open the fuel tanks and insert specialist pumps flown in from Sydney. That way they don’t have to use the damaged pipes. A further complication that the armchair experts ignore is that heavy fuel oil needs to be heated before it can be pumped. So it isn’t just a matter of plugging in a hose somewhere.
The sane among us intend to wait for the investigation report before we go around saying all the oil could have been removed by sunrise and the containers by nightfall.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 5:39 pm
The people talking about communication and leadership and mentioning Parker , are on to it. Some writing on here are engineers..they can understand things but a huge number of NZers are not engineers. Steven Joyce grinning and referring to people in Wellington last night as ”The Boffins ” was a very poor look. Arrogance isn’t appealing at the best of times.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 5:39 pm
Why was there no navigation bouy/beacon on the reef?
Edit: last Labour govt had almost a decade to do this
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
Toad (and Gareth Hughes) are deliberately wearing their blickers, even they mustn’t be stupid enough to not notice that the reasons have been explained and even posted here as to why the oil couldn’t be pumped off as of last Friday or while the weather was good up until the end of last weekend.
Toad continues to deny the truth and continues with his shameless blame game on the Govt. It is really sickening to watch the Greens and Labour expoit these tragedies for votes.
It is also very sickening that, sensing the opportunity to finally fan the flames of people’s fear and anger to unsettle the Govt’s nerves, many cringe worthy spluttering high-profile lefties, like Chris Trotter, Idiot/Savant playing the same blame game.
They are all exploiting the anger and hurt of the people of the BOP, looking for people to blame (instead of quietly getting on fixing the problems). This green-light to go ahead and exploit the anger is now reaching alarming stages, where I read in today’s NZ Herald, that angry locals are now turning on the local Fillipino community.
FFS.
It wasn’t the local Fillipino community in Tauranga that did this.
Neither was it the Govt, and as per the links posted here yesterday we read Maritime NZ’s timeline of events as to what they were doing. Ditto the reasons why the bunk oil couldn’t be discharged until damaged piping was assessed and repaired, also why the Oiler vessel had to trek to Marsden Point to discharge her oil (as the AK Tank Farm was decomissioned), before proceeding to the Rena.
Agree also with leftliberal, there is no Bob Parker to rally the spirits and cause of the locals & there is no constant public face to this event. (Perhaps the local Tauranga mayor should have stepped up, but he’s missed his opportunity). Initially the Govt responded, finally we see the civil authorities appear and finally the ship owners. There is no one constant face of authority. But should that matter? I don’t really think it would have, but alas this has allowed the likes of Toad and The Greens, Goofy and Labour, the Leftie blog authors to get on the band wagon. Shame on those arseholes.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 5:51 pm
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10758929
…Filipinos feel local wrath
Filipinos in the Bay of Plenty say that since it was revealed that crew on the Rena were from the Philippines, they have felt the wrath of the public.
“People are passing remarks like, ‘They must be relatives of yours’. You know it’s not a joke because you can feel the negative vibes,” said Daisy Pascuade Groot, a business owner in Mt Maunganui.
“People should understand that one man’s fault shouldn’t be seen as everyone’s fault.”
… Another Filipina, who did not wish to be named, said she sensed a “growing anti-Filipino feeling” in the Bay of Plenty.
“One cyclist asked if I was Filipino, and when I said yes, he just gave me the finger and cycled off,” she said.
Anger over the toll of wildlife caught in the oil spill from the Rena is also being directed against Filipinos.
“The Rena crew has murdered thousands of our native wildlife, and the community still want to help them? Unbelievable,” said Kim Armstrong, a visitor from Britain whose sister lives in Tauranga.
Vote:********
Thanks Toad, Greens, Labour, thanks for your actions sanctioning hate. Unecessary hate against the Govt is becoming normalised to hate and blame other such as Fillipinos.
October 14th, 2011 at 6:04 pm
If the pipes were stuffed then its a no story. if not then where the fuck were they!
I see they (the incident team) are working their nuts off and I don’t believe they set out to do a bad job nor are they incompetent.
Similarly they aren’t all natuional supoporters some may even be Labour or watermelon supporters so how can The National Party be to blame?
That still doesn’t detract from who holds the disaster plan for this?
Vote:How often is it updated?
Is all the equipment needed for first 48hrs held aon SI and NI?
October 14th, 2011 at 6:15 pm
Where’s Toad gone?
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 7:04 pm
“The Rena crew has murdered thousands of our native wildlife, and the community still want to help them? Unbelievable,” said Kim Armstrong, a visitor from Britain whose sister lives in Tauranga.
Saw this and was actually flabergasted that some pommie tart here visiting would mouth of in such a way.
Clearly the pommes deserve her and she should return whence she came very promptly. She is of course not a Kiwi and therefore cannot claim any ownership of NZ Native birds.
Reports this afternoon had about 1000 dead birds and maybe more to come. less than the number killed on our roads everyday I’d suggest. Currently their appears to be more bird looker afterer’s than birds. they have also appointed counselors for those bird lokker afterer’s. FFS. They are birds.
I watched the local motel fella moan away last night. Now there are about 1000 people plus the army working on this. Many are not local and so far in my daily travels haven’t seen any tent city sprouting up so one assumes (and I will check this next week), that they are staying in motels. Some people just don’t know when to stop moaning.
There is an ill wind that blows no one any good. Resturants and takeaways will be looking up along with one landlord at least of not more.
Publicity is always good no matter the event, so the Bay will become much more widely known around the world.
The bigger disaster here is in the Kiwifruit industry. A 1 billion export industry which is being destroyed by PSA. Thats the real big problem.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
Fear not IV2, Toad will pop back in due course and in his “casual and innocent manner” will repeat his diatribe, oblivious to the explanations being offered here, on official MTZ and Govt websites & in the media even.
So rather than waste anymore time on that chappie, I wish to take my hat off to the brave people working to fix the problems, the people who have been aboard the Rena yesterday and today in scary conditions, the hundreds of people coordinating the response, the public, volunteers, emergency and defence services cleaning up the beaches and retreiving the floating containers etc.
It is interesting that, unlike TVNZ and TV3, Radio NZ (Checkpoint and MR) have moved on away from upset residents to better explain what is happening. I heard a bit of tonight’s Checkpoint item on the command and communication centre, where hundreds of workers and volunteers are coordinating the response. There are some good people there, doing good work. Quietly getting on and not making a fuss.
These are the real heros.
Unlike those people I mentioned above, exploiting hurt and anger for their own ends. Shameful.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 8:05 pm
Quite so Niggly; and John Key received a very fair hearing from people at Papamoa who are now starting to appreciate that everything that can be done has been, even if the communications have no been to everyone’s expectation.
The tide of public opinion seems to have turned again, and one can’t help but wonder if there will now be an electoral backlash against parties who have over-egged the pudding, or sent their leader to pose for photos whilst wearing his best suit and dress shoes.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
Shoveling shit would seem like the best job opportunity open to Goofy these days, why do you cruel fellows deny him the chance to gain experience?
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
I think Cap’n John has worked his magic yet again. TV1 and TV3 obviously couldn’t find anyone to carp about his public meeting today so we got only a few seconds and that was all.
It’s a pity. I would have liked to have heard more of the questions and answers but instead we just got more speculation about the rugby.
We really are very poorly served by our TV news.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 8:50 pm
Toad? Toad? Anyone seen Toad tonight? Or Gareth?
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 8:59 pm
Gareth is swotting for end of year exams, Toad is coaching him IV2.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 9:10 pm
I jsut ticked through this thread.
Despite the best efforts of those who comment on this site Toad doesn’t seem to understand the engineering and technical realities of the situation.
An engineering client of mine laughed when I suggested that the proposition had been made by some such as toad that the Awanuia could simply tool alongside the Rena from day one and accept the discharge of HFO from the vessel.
Niggly I agree with you. Kudos to those working their butts of to clean up their beaches and those who do that in the days to come. I also salute those guys in the salvage team who are putting their lives at risk trying to make safe the vessel.
Brickbats to those trying to make politcal capital out of this.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 9:14 pm
@ Alex; Toad understands all right. Why do you think we haven’t seen hide no hair of him since his 5.11pm post got completely and totally fisked? He’s buggered off back to his lily pond to sulk.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 9:16 pm
Silly you alex. The experts here all know that you just flick the pumps over to reverse (after putting the filler hose in the Awanuia’s tank of course). Its all done in a blink of an eyelid and the world is saved for all the little birdies and fishes.
See the Labour/Melon websites if any further clarification is required!
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 9:31 pm
DPF
You said;
…blowing off course ? Is this the official line ?
I ask because to date I haven’t actually heard any explanation for what looks like such a fundermental cock up.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 9:32 pm
I know, I know.
You can’t change the mind of the willfully blind. Sorry mixing my metaphors.
This [http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/Incident/QandA.asp ] is a Q&A piece from MSA addressing the issues with the Rena.
It is quite illuminating. It says in clearer language than I used what issues needed to be addressed before the safe discharge of the HFO from the vessel. Especially the issue of the vessels stability on discharge of the HFO which i had not considered.
I would rather the considered approach of the salvors be adopted than the bull at a gate approach advocated by Toad et al.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 9:34 pm
Hell the rumour is the captain was having a party but no one said it was THAT kind of party!
Well spotted burt!
Guess the Labour party should adopt a slightly lower profile in view of this revelation.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
Burt the theory’s about the collison are the short cut or fat fingers on the GPS.
Port of tauranga require vessels approachin the port from the east to pass to seaward of the Volkner rocks by 5 nm and to seaward of the Astrolabe reef by 3nm.
The difference between the correct course required by the Port of Tauranga and that needed to run aground is about 5 degrees, which assumes the vessel passed the volkner rocks at the correct distance. There is a course change at the volkner rocks so a 5 degree error might not be noticed.
If a route had been plugged into the GPS in say Napier an error of a decimal place or towo could give rise to the 5 degree error.
But one would have thought the course would have been laid out on a chart and the the gps postions cross referenced with the charted positions and log enabling the error in course heading to be identified.
Consequently I lean to the short cut theory rather than fat fingers on the GPS.
I am not so certain about the pissed captain theory. Wherever they come from and I have met a number over the years they are generally serious responsible types.
The vessel was 1-2 hours from the pilot station. If he was keen to get alongside as is suggested why get drunk. The pilot would notice, and would report the matter to MSA and the other port control authorities. They look at those sort of things quite seriusly or obvious reasons.
I may be wrong. It will come out in the MSA report and the prosecutions.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 10:08 pm
What is your take on having a pilot on board when in NZ waters Alex?
I heard a Canadian pilot from Vancouver (who had spent time in Tauranga) talking to Leighton earlier this week saying it is what they do there and could not believe we do not do it here.
He said they have around 100 pilots in his area and it costs but so what if it stops shit like this.
Whatever you do don’t cite the Mikhail Lermontov.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 10:35 pm
Alex M>Burt the theory’s about the collison are the short cut or fat fingers on the GPS.
I recall a case in the St Lawrence where the antenna cable fell out the back of the ship’s navigation system. It cut over from a GPS position to a best estimate based on last known position, direction, and speed. The crew thought they were in the middle of the shipping lane, but ran aground.
Vote:October 14th, 2011 at 11:08 pm
alex Masterly says:- “Consequently I lean to the short cut theory rather than fat fingers on the GPS.”
I appreciate your depth of knowledge on this subject, but I have to strongly disagree with this idea.
Never taking shortcuts in the captaining of large vessels, no matter where in the world, would be one of the most fundamental underpinning tenets of shipping.
My guess is that the accident was the result of over reliance on GPS, without cross reference to more traditional navigating aids. As you say, it will all come out in the wash.
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 6:48 am
Scott,
Two words “Mikahel Lermantov” (I hope I spelt it right)
John boy.
I understand it is difficult to recruit pilots at the best of times in New Zealand. The pool of qualified people is tiny.
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 7:13 am
Just read the do post piece on a course change made by the vessel after the Volkner Rockswhich put the vessels course on a direct line with the reef.
If that is correct that is negligent navigation by some-one pure and simple.
Incidentally the herald has a piece on the rena, the best bit from my perspective being the reported comments of a salvage consultant and the head of Amsa that our response time have been pretty good. That won’t please the “I want it now types” exemplified by toad and Mr Hughes, but it can’t be helped.
Another thing. Transtasman relations are pretty good at the moment, baring the war tomorrow night. There is a significant Aussie contingent in Tauranga helping with the command centre the clean up and on the water. All I can say is thanks.
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 8:24 am
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rena-oil-spill/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503203&objectid=10759219
Rena spill: Q & A with Transport Minister Steven Joyce
NZH: Englishman Jonathan Walker was flown from Singapore to be lead adviser to Maritime New Zealand while the company-appointed experts, Svitzer, came from the Netherlands. Why wasn’t there an expert on hand in New Zealand?
Joyce: “That’s a contradiction in terms. If you are an expert in salvaging large ships you wouldn’t get the experience in New Zealand. There are only about 50 guys in the world, including masters and workers, who do this stuff. Local guys’ experience is in small-vessel salvage, so you don’t have a choice but to get in expertise from overseas.
“Jonathan Walker has said the reaction to this incident is as fast as any he has seen in the world and Toby Stone, who is over here from the Australian Maritime Safety Authority, has confirmed the same thing to me.”
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 8:31 am
alex Masterley says:- “Two words “Mikhail Lermantov”
I take your point. Maybe we’re looking at a case of grossest stupidity. Was this guy really that dumb? Surely not.
According to the NBR, he was arrested under S65 of the Marine act:
“..Operates any ship or maritime product in a manner which causes unnecessary danger or risk to any other person or to any property, irrespective of whether or not in fact any injury or damage occurs.”
http://www.maritimelaw.org.nz/martrans.html
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 8:37 am
Scott, also the majority of people (and us here) have no real knowledge of how a ship operates 24/7 (and hopefully some people here can enlighten us).
Eg does vessels like the Rena, have a manned 24 hour watch? (To do so would obviously require a number of men working shifts etc).
Or does, eg from midnight or so, the ship’s bridge operate unmanned? Noted that the incident happened about 2am.
(I’m not going to speculate on pissed sailors because of the Captain’s birthday. That’s needless speculation and the events will come out when the enquiry starts etc).
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 8:42 am
http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/rena-crisis/5789174/Deliberate-course-sent-Rena-to-reef
Oh dear ….
“A deliberate decision was made to change the course of the container ship Rena to head it smack on to the Astrolabe Reef an hour before it grounded, a marine expert says.
An internationally recognised marine risk expert has plotted the fateful final hours of the ship’s course using data transmitted by the ship’s own instruments.
The Dominion Post has obtained charts made by a Wellington-based senior partner in Marico Marine, John Riding, who said if someone looked at the ship’s charts after changing course the reef would be “staring them in the face”. “
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 9:22 am
niggly says:- “the majority of people (and us here) have no real knowledge of how a ship operates 24/7″
Ahh, but it’s fun having a bit of a guess. I’m doubtful that the captain took a shortcut simply because imprecise inshore navigation is such a basic error that it’s almost inconceivable that the captain would have been this foolish.
He may have delegated responsibility to someone who was that ignorant maybe, in which case the captain is still culpable.
This idea would be borne out by the arrest of the second officer a couple of days ago.
I’d be curious to know how old he was.
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 9:48 am
Niggly,
Vote:A watch system operates.
The bridge always has watch keepers and an officer on duty while a vessel is under way. (in theory)
October 15th, 2011 at 9:57 am
Cheers alex, that’s comforting to know!
So perhaps (Re: Rena situation & as per the Stuff article link above), it appears to be another case of human error ….?
(Like the Mikhail Lermantov).
Although as per Stuff article, I thought I had read elsewhere the Rena was a regular visitor to NZ or Tauranga, so wonder whether the watch keeper on duty was much previous experience with Port of Tauranga’s hazards…
I wonder how long a court of enquiry will take to sort out these facts … weeks, months, years?
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
Niggly there is a hierachy of enquires;
Vote:The criminal prosecution which may take 5-10 months to complete depending on plea and if a plea of not guilty is entered court time available.
Following on and perhaps puttering along in the background the formal MSA and TAIC enquiry into the casualty.
As I have consistently said this is navigation error (cock up) with massive consequences.
October 15th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
Toad doesn’t seem to understand the engineering and technical realities of the situation.
Why would he want to let facts get in the way of a good story for the election? ? ? He never has before!
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
One of the arguments being put forward in an attempt to excuse the delay in the Awanuia getting to the scene is that it had to go to Marsden Point to discharge its oil cargo before heading to Tauranga.
Take a look at the GPS tracking of the Awanuia on 7 October and the days following. She didn’t even go to Marsden Point, let alone discharge any oil there, but turned around off Mangawhai Heads to head to Tauranga. Why the lies?
Despite the rhetoric about me not understanding the “engineering and technical realities”, which I freely admit that not being an engineer I don’t, you’re attempting to push a sloppy turd uphill with a pointed stick in defending the Government and Maritime NZ on this one. They left it to the shipping company and its salvors to deal with, and they fucked up.
Sorry guys, I may not be an engineer but I’ve got a pretty good bullshit detector.
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Wouldn’t have made any difference Toadie. The plumbing on the Rena was still fucked and took till they started pumping to get it right.
What sort of bullshit did your detector pickup when you saw Goofy on the beach with his shovel?
ps: How is Hughes, the twinkle in his old mans eye, doing at the NCEA so far?
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
@Johnboy 5:13 pm
Plenty. There have been Green MPs there all of last week (2 or 3 most days), helping on the ground with cleanup & bird rescue, discussing issues with the locals etc (and, yes, doing some media work on the issue as well).
Unlike Goff who flew in for a photo op and out again.
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
Toad,
Thanks for that.
Awanuia picks up its HFO from marsden. There must have been space at auckland to discharge it’s cargo. I was wrong when i suggested it would go back to Marsden to unload it’s cargo.
If you think thats a lie then so be it.
Unlike you, however, I am prepared to acknowledge when I am wrong.
You have said that you are not a salvage engineer.
Why don’t you listen to the salvors and the head of AMSA reported in the herald today.
They say, and this echos the marine engineers who i have discussed this with that the work required to enable discharge of the HFO to Awanuia was undertaken in a timely manner and even if it had got to Tauranga it would not have been able to be employed until it was.
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 5:46 pm
@Johnboy 5:13 pm
We can all speculate about that. Unless you have inside info from the engineers who went on board, you don’t know that, because it is not info that is in the public domain. But the reality is that you can’t start pumping until you’ve got a vessel there capable of receiving the oil. And the reality is that it took almost 5 days to do that because the Government took a hands off approach and left it to the shipping company and their insurers to make the decision.
And no doubt advised that the liability for pollution was likely to be bugger all due to New Zealand’s lax legislation, the shipping company and its insurers had no reason to prioritise avoiding that happening.
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
It doesn’t suit Toadie to listen to the truth Alex.
He has an agenda to push.
How is the boy doing at school Toadie? You haven’t answered yet.
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 5:51 pm
You know something Toad I thought you were capable of some intellectual rigor. I was wrong.
Vote:Blinkered vision leads to myopia.
October 15th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
I might be just a dumb fuckwit Toadie but even I know that the fuel, ballast water, etc. transfer pipes are under the tanks and just above the outer hull of the vessel. It would seem pretty bloody logical that if it drove up onto a rock outcrop on the reef they would stand a fair chance of being fucked.
However don’t let me stand in your way as you merrily try to spin a few more votes from the bedazzled of this fair land towards your Luddite party of fools.
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
alex Masterley says:- “Blinkered vision leads to myopia.”
Actually, I think toads have panoramic vision…..Never dis a guy who can lick his balls with his tongue. (eyeballs that is)
Vote:October 15th, 2011 at 6:08 pm
The problem with HMNZS National is that it has a completely deranged officer, Nick Smith, and a few incompetent in the ship’s bridge.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 9:45 am
It is not just about what Nat politicians are doing or not doing now ; it is more about who created the conditons which allowed this to happen..Who changed the legislation which now allows all these rust buckets near our coasts?? It was a Nat govt..Maurice Williamson was involved..has he stepped down? No of course not..It is all ”no care , no responsibility.” It was a National govt which disestablished the mines inspectorate…It was Jenny Shipley who liberalized all the licencing laws etc etc..etc Consequences , what all good mothers try to teach there two year olds..
Vote:Again , in the past few years lots of hastily thrown together legislation..much of it passed under urgency..This type of behaviour means we shall have plenty more disasters to face..All I ever want is for someone to fess up..This seems to be the hard part.
October 16th, 2011 at 10:21 am
Why is it that, when the airheads on TV shove a mike in front of business owners in the affected area so they can pour out their ‘expert’ version of events, the same business owners quickly look to the Government for compensation for lost earnings?
Haven’t they heard of business interruption insurance? Any competent business owner / manager will assess potential risks to their business and take practical steps to mitigate against such risks. One such element will be to consider business interruption insurance and in the event that there is an incident (beyond their control) that impacts on their revenue earning ability. Similar to FX cover.
So to now hear these idiots trot out the “I want compensation’ line, is pathetic. Same as for the people who didn’t have insurance in the Christchurch quake(s) but who still want / expect the Government to pick up the tab for their relocation and subsequent rebuild.
If compensation is eventually paid to business owners by the Government, will those businesses who have taken the prudent step of taking out business interruption cover, be entitled for a double dip [their own insurance plus any Government hand out]?
If not, why not?
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