Rugby World Cup 16 October 2011
October 16th, 2011 at 10:18 am by David FarrarOh Wales got so very very close. They played to the best of their ability and would have won if the penalty had occurred one metre closer to the try line. The last few minutes were intense, as Wales got into the French territory but never quite got the opportunity for a drop goal.
One shouldn’t be overly confident, but hell if New Zealand wins tonight, we should beat France in the final. They have not shone, if they can only beat a 14 man Welsh team by one point.
So all eyes of All Blacks v Wallabies tonight. What are you predictions. I’m going for All Blacks by 10 points.
Related posts:
- Rugby World Cup 23 October 2011
- Rugby World Cup 9 October 2011
- Rugby World Cup 10 October 2011
- Rugby World Cup 22 October 2011
October 16th, 2011 at 10:28 am
I just hope all NZ TV commentators keep their predictions to themselves, lest they jinx another NZ victory.
/superstition
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 10:29 am
All Blacks by 13+.
Cooper has been awful, and Beale has had to mop up after him. Now Beale is gone, and considering he’d been effectively acting as the pivot in the line, there’s no way they’ll run anything solid from the inside back. So expect Cooper to kick a lot, and expect us to kick to him a lot too.
With that in mind, I think the Australians are going to want to play things up close in the forwards. They cashed in their ‘get out of jail free’ card against SA who were without Russow and competent enforcement of the breakdown. I’d be surprised to see Pocock get away with it again, given how silent the IRB have been about Lawrence’s performance last week (remember how quickly they lept to the defence of Barnes?). Man-for-man, an injured McCaw is probably about equal with Pocock on a good night, but last week was an aberration, and without Russow SA had no cover. Those turnovers were the only thing keeping them in the game last week, and you can bet that McCaw and Kaino will be watching out for them.
So you’ve effectively got a backline that can’t defend man-for-man, a forward pack that managed to get away with murder last week (and not a whole lot else), a first five and fullback who are hopeless under the high ball. Expect it to blow-out, expect the All Blacks to get the upper hand quickly and expect the Aussies to get dirty pretty quickly too.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 10:39 am
Well the ref ruined the game last night, the Welsh were robbed of an opportunity that may not come around for quite some time.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 10:41 am
“So all eyes of All Blacks v Wallabies tonight. What are you predictions. I’m going for All Blacks by 10 points.”
I hope you are right.
No choking this time…….?
In this case the Semi final is the final. If they win the semi, they will have a 90% chance to lift the cup.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 10:44 am
Not robbed, a shame at the effect it had on the game but one moments indiscretion can turn games in many ways.
I just saw “that tackle” properly on a repeated replay. I think the red card decision was correct. The French player was lifted in a tackle and then let go so he dropped nearly head first. That’s potentially very dangerous.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 11:32 am
The French player could have had his neck broken being dropped like that. A severe penalty was appropriate. But it is a tragedy that the whole team – and Welsh nation – had to pay the price for one man’s moment of foolishness. I really wanted Wales to win, and I thought the way France played was shameful – as soon as Wales were down to 14 men they seemed to be just playing down the clock – for 60 minutes! Wales deserved to win even with 14 men. If only just one of the missed kicks had not missed. Arrrgh.
I have consulted the number of clouds in the sky, the number of bird droppings on my car and the number of blackbird tweets outside my window in a 60-second period and performed a complicated integral calculation based on these numbers. This tells me that the All Blacks will win 28-13.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 11:40 am
Here’s what the IRB has instructed referees:
Rolland’s decision was 100% correc t in law. Warburton lifted Clerc, Turned him, then dropped him. Clerc landed on the back of his head and neck; very, very vulnerable.
I am looking forward to tonight with a degree of confidence. The All Black forwards will overpower Australia, and with Dagg in for us and Beale out for them, we have as much firepower in the backs as Australia.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 11:42 am
Sorry, watching that tackle last night I didn’t think it was a red card and still don’t. A red card is a deliberate offense. That tackle happened as a run of play and Warburton had let the man go as he is supposed to do. So, yellow card only. The reef should have looked at the video replay.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 11:42 am
Spear tackles are usually a yellow card – what on earth justified a red card?
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 11:44 am
I see some explanation was given as I was posting. This must be tougher than Super 15, etc.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 11:48 am
Viking, see I2′s comment. Letting someone go once you put them upside down in the air is potentially very dangerous, deliberate or not. And it’s clearly a red card offence under rugby law.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 11:51 am
Blame the law, not the ref.
And HTFU to all the woolley woofter doubter naysayers.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Blame the ref?
What about the try scorer acting like a child pointing and toungue wagging instaed of trying to ground the ball closer to the posts?
Vote:A champion goes for max points ,not showing off.
October 16th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
I don’t blame the law either, it’s that way for a reason, safety of players. And the players know – or shouild know – what’s legal or not. It’s a very risky game as it is physiclly, there needs to be clear lines on dangerous play.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 12:21 pm
As someone who is not a rugby fan, but has been watching the world cup matches, I must say that the game of rugby is pretty messed up.
Wales v France was the second match in the knockouts that was won by the “wrong” team (ie won by the team who was weaker, played worse). Why? Because the majority of the points come from penalties, which are awarded for seemingly arbitrary things, out of proportion to the effect they have on the game. (You don’t need to be a genius to work out that SA should have whipped the Wallabies as well). And what the hell is a team that lost two pool matches doing in the finals anyway??
I remember one penalty last night was awarded for a guy in a ruck or maul (don’t know which is which) falling over. Looking at the replay it didn’t look like he did this on purpose, but just slipped. So one guy slipping over causes the frogs to win? Bollocks, what a stupid game.
You could make the game a lot better at a stroke by making penalties only one point. But it seems that people have been screwing with the rules for so long now that it’s become a farce.
Nothing about this world cup convinces me that I’m missing anything by not being a rugby fan.
I like NZ, but I wish the residents would grow up and be less obsessed by this stupid so-called national game. There are many more important things than this silly game, where the wrong team often wins.
I’m sure many will disagree of course.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
The player was not driven into the ground nor was he dropped from a dangerous height. Rolland should have taken a moment and consulted the touchies. May have been the same end result I dont know. IMHO of course.
Mitigating fact is that it was a semi, 60,000 people had shelled out big coin to see it and they deserve a decent game.
AB’s will deal to the Wannabies tonight, will be an epic game. Dry with light winds, I expect a brutal forward effort.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
Alain Rolland’s father is French. He is a fluent French speaker which is the reason he was given the responsibility of refereeing the French games. His impartiality must be called into question along with the IRB referee selection process. Rolland is the only referee in the tournament to have issued either a red or yellow card. The tackle in question did not cause any injury. It was not at the sharp end of such offences. Warburton did not drive Clerc into the ground. A careful viewing of the replay reveals that Warburton attempted to resile from the situation in the split second it occurred. A yellow card was called for, but, that is all. There have been several other spear tackles in the tournament that were not punished so severely. Rolland did not consult the touch judges or the TMO. It was an act of overweening self confidence in the circumstances. A referee should not be able to influence the outcome of international sporting competition on such an uncompetitive and ill advised basis. Clerc then hammed it up, which is the act of a cheat. And, the French team immediately supported him by erupting into unsportsmanlike argy bargy. Don’t forget, in the pool games, Rolland openly distracted the All Blacks by discussing a rule interpretation while the French slithered over the try line. He then awarded a try. Rolland’s decisions have soured the 2011 Rugby World Cup and harmed Rugby overall.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
beautox
“There are many more important things than this silly game”
Oh yeah? Name one, just ONE, c’mon.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Beautox, you are a souless Philistine .
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
The ABs should win, as long as they play well enough, put pressure on Australia, the bounce of the ball doesn’t go against them, and French luck isn’t with Australia.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
Pete, as I said over at Inv’s place, Clerc twisted himself and Warburton dropped him as he attempted to pull out of the tackle. The uncomfortable landing was a result of a normal driving tackle going pear-shaped and yellow was the appropriate sanction under point 3.
As for the French try against the AB’s, attempting to involve the ref in a discussion to allow the time to reset a defensive is a common form of gamesmanship. Rolland did well not to fall for it.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
The tackle.
Vote:
October 16th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
The referee acted according to the law. See IV2′s 11.40 post.
Warburton, alas, may have cost his side a chance to contest the final. Whether or not the tackle was marginal is beside the point. He took that risk by tackling the player beyond the horizontal, and driving him into the ground in a manner reminiscent to Tana Umaga’s thuggish tackle which seriously injured Brian O’Driscoll, and which led to the law change.
League have had the same law in for years following a spate of serious neck injuries, one of which ended Jarrod McCracken’s career, and which was perpetrated by the current Kiwi’s coach Steven Kearney.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Warburton also sounded like he accepted what happened.
The heavy shower just before the game started didn’t help Wales either. As we know, some games (especially against France) just don’t work out.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
Here is a cut’n'paste from a IRB memo concerning dangerous tackles:
Note that intent doesn’t come into it. It quite specifically says (emphasis mine) that for a tackle where the lifted player is dropped from height, a red card is the default penalty.
http://www.deepsouthrugbyunion.com/images/IRB_Memorandum_re_Dangerous_Tackles.pdf
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
There is a Ban Alain Rolland From Officiating Rugby Ever Again!!! facebook page with more than 1500 members already. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=13232340410
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
Adze, the point is that Clerc wasn’t dropped “with no regard for his safety” it was as a result of Warburton trying to pull out of a driving tackle as Clerc twisted himself. Warburton went into a legal driving tackle, which if he’d followed through after Clerc’s twisting reaction would have speared the French player into the ground.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
IF the ABs lose once again it will point to a lack of brainpower.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
boo bloody hoo
the welsh had their chances and blew it
back to their whining best……….
Les Blues – Abs final
87 all over again including economy in toilet, earthquakes, welsh send-offs in the semi’s, Abs victory
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
James, I’ve just reviewed the tackle on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d75L8OQVe6U – it looked like a lifted and turned mid-air tackle to me. I’m not sure it’s possible to know specifically what Warburton was trying to do or whether he was just careless.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Wales have won a lot of people over, they been one of the shining stars of then tournament so far and will be remembered for their positive and mostly successful contribution, albeir with one significant blip plus some bad luck and bad goal kicking.
Wales has a young team and is on the way up, as is Warburton. I hope they can recover from last night’s loss and show what they can do against Australia in the consolation final, and go on to set a new standard in next year’s Six Nations.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
It amuses me how easy the All Black supporters seem to think the game tonight will be- Every man and his dog seems to be rubbishing the Wallabies and predicting a runaway romp to NZ….. Havn’t we seen this cockiness/arrogance at World Cups before??
I’m guessing these people didn’t watch the Tri Nations (that incidentally Australia won..) then?? The reality is that there is VERY little between these two sides…
Too close to call in my books.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
I’m not really calling it Longknives, I agree it’s anyone’s game to take (out of us and Aus that is) – but I’m still hoping like hell we can pull it off. And if we fail I hope it’s a deserved Australian victory, if so good for them.
I’ll be disappointed if the ABs lose, but I dread the local reaction if they do, potentially far worse than losing at sport.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
This thread is great. Loving the game analysis. I’ve now realised I am officially more of a right winger than the deluded Lion Brown socialist I used to be.(Bogan version of a chardonnay socialist) It’s precious lefties that sit round and besmirch the good name of our national game. I have grown over the last few weeks to love rugby – it was a great game last night – on many counts. I was Gouramied to the screen. You know what I mean? Eyes wide open and almost kissing the LCD panel.
Vote:The red card – was a bummer for Wales but quite innocent actions can have an effect down the years and if he wasn’t red carded you’d have an increase in dangerous play as players subconsciously adjust their ‘bloodlust’ thresholds for acceptable tackle practices. I’m going NZ 25 Australia 18
October 16th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
beautox:
I take it from your “I like NZ, but…” comment that you are a “new New Zealander”. If you don’t have any regard for our national game, that’s OK by me. But please don’t try and re-organise our favoured code to suit your own particular tastes. Especially from a position of self-proclaimed ignorance.
On that “big” decision, I tend to be with Viking2, Anthony and DavidC. I thought that the blind letter of the law was applied harshly by Rolland, with insufficient regard to context. It is idle to claim that he had no element of discretion in the matter. We have all seen yellow cards issued for similar infringements, yet in Internationals of the last few seasons I don’t recall a single such instance which has been followed by widespread claims that a red card had been mandatory. Or claims that the game had been ruined by the choice of a yellow card instead.
We all know that there’s a serious safety issue involved here, and of course we should be concerned about that. There is a serious safety issue involved, too, in scrums being collapsed – deliberately on occasions, if the refs are to be believed. But red cards aren’t dispensed summarily for that relatively common offence. It’s one thing to point to the rules and to the refereeing body’s interpretations of those rules, but it’s another matter to explain or justify such inconsistencies in practical application of the rules.
Finally, Wales was not robbed of its “rightful place” in the RWC Final. Wales failed to go through to the Final because its goal-kicking on the night proved to be substandard. Ultimately it could blame only itself for that.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
I ref rugby here in the US. A spear tackle here is pretty much automatic red card. Rolland should’ve consulted with the AR closest though just to be sure. As spear tackles go it was at the lower end of severity but then it was hard for Rolland to know that at the moment. The laws are getting stricter and the instructions on interpretations leaving less room for indvidual ref discretion.
Beale’s injury is huge – he’s a game changer. Genia is more easily contained and Cooper is erratic and flighty. Australia were very lucky that Lawrence was lax at times at the breakdown and there were a few times they slowed the ball and there was one hand in the ruck – Joubert would’ve picked up and pinged Aussie probably 3 times more than Lawrence at least (hypothetically of course) and the Boks wouldve got 1 of those 3 over and we’d be playing them tonight. Also the Wallabies were woeful at times in the scrum and lineout and whilst their defence was awesome, it was against a pretty predictable and ponderous Bok’s attack. SA missed Steyn’s long range boot and Habana was left on the field semi injured for too long.
That said Australia never say die and so all 22 boys in Black are going to have to play as if their lives depended on it. Losing the two last Tri Nations games AND Carter means there ought to be zero complacency. I’m picking ABs by 15. Its time our decades long dominance of world rugby was recognized
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
Despite the disappointment last night I think this is well deserved by – A tribute to Wales.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 1:55 pm
I’d rather have a more comfortable stunning win by the AB’s Monique. I’ll show party solidarity by giving Australia the same 18, but in keeping with us being allowed to have our personal opinions I’ll go with the ABs at 35.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 2:28 pm
If that was a red-card spear tackle last night…what was the Umaga/Mealamu pile-driver on Ireland’s Brian O’Driscoll (smashed his shoulder, put him out of rugby for a year etc) then? Was it ‘cos they were AB’s there was not even a penalty?
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 2:45 pm
3 coil- Expect some rabid one-eyed All Black ‘fan’ to reply with their fucking moronic “This ain’t tiddlywinks” line any minute. It’s the standard justification for any All Black thuggery.
Brad Thorn also speared John Smit and put him out of the Tri Nations a couple of years ago…strangely no red cards were flashed about then either…Protected species?? Surely not….
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
3-coil: The O’Driscoll incident was the reason that the rules were changed to what they currently are.
Personally, I thought the red card was harsh whilst conforming with the current rules. Where the ref went wrong IMO was going immediately to the red card with no discussion from the touchies or review of the footage. If he’d done either of these things and then given the red I think it would have gone down a little easier.
Either way, Wales played better than France did (the French to their credit admit this) but they failed to convert the opportunities they had into points. The better team didn’t end up going through, but that occurs quite regularly in rugby and is one of the things I quite like about the game – it can be frustrating, but it keeps me interested.
Definitely the real final tonight, All Blacks by 8+.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
or review of the footage.
That’s not an option, video reviews can only be used for over the try line related to tries.
I agree that tonight is the big game of the tournament. Until next week I hope.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
The red card was idiotic, though I do agree the Ref didnt have much choice given the directives.
The thing about that tackle is that the final result is almost impossible to avoid once the two players are in certain positions, weights are distributed in a certain way, and momentum is heading in a certain direction. Those factors are determined well before it is obvious that a spear tackle was going to be the end result.
And there is a massive difference between the tackle of Kearney on McCracken and the one from last night. That was a spear, last nights one was a paddle.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 4:06 pm
Pete George, agreed that the Ref cannot call for the video to have a look but he can have a chat with the touchies who will have been looking at the screens as its been replayed.
Cant freaking wait.
Vote:I would have far rather seen a yellow card followed by a banning if required so the player was punished rather than the team and spectators.
ABs by 32 to 16. Three tries to one. Cruden to play a blinder.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:48 pm
Wow, you must be a first-class seer. Please tell me, who is going to win the third race at Awapuni next week?
Vote:I wish you were right, though.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
Come on Manolo you know I am good! *fingers crossed*
Aussie wine is banned tonight so an 07 Te Mata Bullnose to go with the lamb
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 6:08 pm
If the Aussies keep the game tight they could win
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 8:39 pm
I just bet $100 on the All Blacks. I think they’ll win by about 6-12 points.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
So far so good – pretty solid first half performance. Dropped 9 points from kicking but otherwise solid. Cruden having a blinder.
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 10:49 pm
Woohoo!!!
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 11:05 pm
Anyone seen Big Bruv tonight?
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 11:21 pm
Inv: Or MNIJ?
Vote:October 16th, 2011 at 11:29 pm
John Key will be a happy man tonight; Phil Goff might have mixed feelings…
Vote:October 17th, 2011 at 4:04 am
Nice to see my winnnig margin was out by only 1 – awesome performance across the paddock and throughout the team. I could 4.3 million (minus the Labour caucus) collective sighs of relief from across the Pacific! The image of McCaw hoisting aloft the Webb Ellis trophy will erase the political fallout from the Rena grounding.
Vote: