Comments on: US v China

By: Liberty

Liberty — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:01:08 +0000

Which makes it very difficult for labour to form a coalition with Peters. The Enoch Powell of the south pacific. How could they have a Minister with such an appalling attitude towards the Chinese?
Fortunately all a bit academic. NZ first is history which means labour will also be history.

By: Apteryx

Apteryx — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 09:58:20 +0000

And Jim Sutton, don’t forget his efforts as trade minister at the time.

By: Pundit

Pundit — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 09:44:26 +0000

The trade deficit with China has narrowed hugely since the China FTA was signed; a consequence of New Zealand exporters gaining more value trading into a growing Chinese economy that was opened more to New Zealand exporters as a result of the concessions negotiated in the FTA. No other developed economy has yet achieved an agreement like it. DF is right to acknowledge it as a really significant achievement of the 5th Labour government, not to forget the skill and foresight of some important MFAT staff.

By: Scott Chris

Scott Chris — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 07:14:39 +0000

Aredhel says:- “What is your point?”

You didn’t answer my first question. Were the Romans or Greeks *evil*?

I’ll rephrase my second question:

How do *you* define human rights?

My point is, you consider China to be evil, and to ignore human rights, so I’m merely trying to understand what you mean by that.

By: side show bob

side show bob — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 02:58:19 +0000

There was an item on the radio this afternoon. It appears more and more Kiwis not only like trading with China but are buying up their currency as well. Will the Yuan replace the dollar? . I bet the yanks aren’t to thrilled with the prospect.

By: kowtow

kowtow — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 02:44:49 +0000

FTA China is a contradiction in terms.

The importance of that FTA to China was NZ pioneered it for the rest of the world. Once we did it the rest of the world could stop holding their nostrils and sign up to a lie with the new masters on the block all the while knowing that China doesn’t qualify.
A bit like the EU saying Greece was qualified to join the Eurozone.Political/economic lies will come home to roost.

All that trade with China is going to be lost when the China bubble bursts ,which it inevitably will. I hope we’re prepared for that.

Andl ook at all the jobs we’ve lost to them,for what ? Cheap kettles at the Warehouse. Fucking brilliant.

By: Manolo

Manolo — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 02:04:24 +0000

An interesting article related to this topic: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/7505d210-00ba-11e1-8590-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1c2Pn0XuW

By: peterwn

peterwn — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 02:01:41 +0000

A big problem with MMP. A leader of a minor party can demand a plum portfolio and then refuse to implement Government decisions concerning the portfolio. The PM then has to appoint an ‘associate’ minister to get the work done.

By: wreck1080

wreck1080 — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 01:18:06 +0000

Actually, i agree that the China FTA was Labours largest success. The one thing they did not stuff up. Everything else, well…

Regarding human rights abuses by trading partners:: this is a concern. But, NZ trades with many countries that have poor records of human rights, check Saudi Arabia. Even Australia, they really screwed over the aborigines.

NZ just has to apply pressure for such countries to improve human rights.

By: Aredhel777

Aredhel777 — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 00:07:45 +0000

“What is your point? What have the PRC government’s authoritarianism and human rights violations got to do with the FTA?”

Whether or not a government commits obscenities should be taken into consideration when we sign treaties for moral reasons.

By: swan

swan — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 00:02:11 +0000

@ Aredhel777

What is your point? What have the PRC government’s authoritarianism and human rights violations got to do with the FTA?

Does trade with China increase or decrease the power of the government over its citizens? Does trade reinforce or denigrate the rule of law? Does trade improve or undermine the welfare of the Chinese people?

By: Aredhel777

Aredhel777 — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:49:50 +0000

“1) Were the Romans or Greeks evil?
2) What are human rights?”

The Romans had some very nasty practices (throwing people to the lions etc) and their government was authoritarian, and the Greeks could be pretty brutal too (Alexander the Great’s conquests of say, Tyre, or Thebes, resulted in massacres.) What is your point?

Human rights are spelled out in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights 1948. Glad you asked. :3

By: ROBBO

ROBBO — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:30:16 +0000

@ Aredhel777

Yes you are correct and isn’t it good that the last bastion of communist rule that perpetuates such abuses is slowly being dismantled by capitalism

By: Scott Chris

Scott Chris — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:28:01 +0000

Aredhel says:- “Because some of us have a heart and care that China’s government is evil, oppressive and commits human rights violations”

Two questions:

1) Were the Romans or Greeks evil?
2) What are human rights?

By: swan

swan — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:21:30 +0000

Absolutely Fox – Imports from China are also beneficial so they would add to the benefits of trade with China. It turns out we import alot of stuff from China that we could not hope to make as cheaply ourselves. So we benefit significantly from our imports from China. I don’t know how much the FTA changed our import situation however. I know we still pay large tarrifs to import shoes for some reason. Hence everyone orders theirs off Amazon.

By: Nick R

Nick R — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:20:35 +0000

Whoa! That’s at least two complimentary comments about Labour in the last 24 hours or so! Steady on there…

By: Fox

Fox — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:15:54 +0000

If you’re going to present statistics, and ask your readers to consider whether the FTA with China is beneficial to our country based on those statistics, doesn’t it make sense to include import data as well?

By: James Stephenson

James Stephenson — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:14:14 +0000

What do the relative balances of trade look like?

By: Graeme Edgeler

Graeme Edgeler — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:12:36 +0000

The good state of the government books when the global recession hit was pretty useful too.

By: Aredhel777

Aredhel777 — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:11:40 +0000

Because some of us have a heart and care that China’s government is evil, oppressive and commits human rights violations? They literally arrest members of the Falun Gong (a large Chinese cult) simply because of what they believe and extract their internal organs to sell to the West for a profit or to rich Party members.