General Debate 20 November 2011

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Other_Andy

“No problem if he’s your funny uncle. Problem if he is effectively deputy head diplomat for the Commonwealth.”

Only a problem ifyou have no sense of humour.
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November 20, 2011 5:41pm
Johnboy

Was this the switch you would like to control reid.

It won’t solve the problem but should reduce the cost of containing it somewhat (as long as we keep greedy defence lawyers out of the equation). 🙂

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_chair
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November 20, 2011 5:43pm
reid

Was this the switch you would like to control reid.

It was more this which gave me the idea Johnboy.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-incredible-life-of-russian-billionaire-playboy-mikhail-prokhorov-2011-5#and-in-march-he-picked-up-north-island-in-seychelles-for-around-35-million-it-came-with-a-small-hotel-12

That and the thought that I could do a hell of a lot better than Key is doing and why doesn’t anyone ask me? (It’s so frustrating so I therefore consider myself to be a victim, as well. It’s very harmonious.)
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November 20, 2011 5:53pm
Scott Chris

No Andy, I thought they were funny. But they also show that he has very poor judgement. That’s why he doesn’t like those lovely wind turbines.

I think they enhance a landscape personally, especially one which has been denuded of all its natural forest cover.
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November 20, 2011 5:54pm
Viking2

bereal (1,007) Says:
November 20th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

It’s a great pity that current events have knocked the murder of little JJ in Takitimu St. Orakei off the headlines.

Can anything be done to reduce the number of infants being murdered in New Zealand ?

yep. enacted anti smaking legisalation.

Been a roaring success hasn’t it.
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November 20, 2011 6:01pm
Johnboy

Be careful what you wish for reid there are likely to be others than Putin who can also access Po 210. 🙂
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November 20, 2011 6:01pm
bereal

Jeez reid,
If, “The root cause is lack of education.” What do you suggest ? Where do we begin ?
Educate who, when, how ? Lets hear your suggestions.

Dr Robert Hare ( who coined the phrase psycopath) estimates that 1 in 200 citizens is a psycopath.

Do you feel that the poor people who murder their children can’t stop untill we improve society as a whole ?
If so lets give up now, there is no hope.
Even psycopaths are aware of self preservation.
They don’t commit a murder in front of a uniformed police officer.
They don’t stick their hand into an open fire.
They are just as intelligent as you n i But lack the normal restraints. Theyre not stupid though and can figure
out when its not worth the risk.

How do you account for the fact that other countries/societies do not kill their children like we do ?

My suggestion would be sure to reduce the incidence.
Do you agree with that ?
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November 20, 2011 6:09pm
reid

No problem if he’s your funny uncle. Problem if he is effectively deputy head diplomat for the Commonwealth.

No he’s not. He’s an amusing silly old duffer with running costs running into the ten of millions of pounds which we don’t have to pay for.

Be careful what you wish for reid there are likely to be others than Putin who can also access Po 210

Johnboy, this is what Putin built on his £40,000 p.a. income.

http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=putin+mansion&num=100&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=7orITszuBOKqiQLfzom6Dw&ved=0CEwQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=961

Isn’t he a wise investor?
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November 20, 2011 6:10pm
Johnboy

reid: I suspect he just employed the right sort of staff, after all a business’s greatest asset is its staff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KGB
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November 20, 2011 6:14pm
reid

What do you suggest ? Where do we begin ? Educate who, when, how ? Lets hear your suggestions.

Break down the door bereal. Tell the “underclass” that time is up, no more joking and we don’t care if they don’t like it.

Of course the lefties would go nuts so we’d have to imprison all of them, but who cares about that? It’s a minor side-effect in the name of “the cause.”
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November 20, 2011 6:25pm
Viking2

4 people. one in each jail and stay that way until the truth comes out. No mercy as was given to the child.

The mother has to know and must be shit scared of her boyfreind and his mates. Take her out of the situation and let her breakdown and tell. Tough love.
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November 20, 2011 6:29pm
wat dabney

“A senior BBC journalist accepted £15,000 in grants from the university at the heart of the ‘Climategate’ scandal – and later went on to cover the story without declaring an interest to viewers.

Roger Harrabin, the BBC’s ‘environment analyst’, used the money from the University of East Anglia’s Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research to fund an ‘ad hoc’ partnership he ran with a friend.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2063737/BBCs-Mr-Climate-Change-accepted-15-000-grants-university-rocked-global-warning-scandal.html
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November 20, 2011 6:33pm
bereal

oh dear reid
WTF was that.
i thought that if you did respond it would be cognizant.
What a dissapointment.
Care to try again ?
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November 20, 2011 6:36pm
Manolo

Can anything be done to reduce the number of infants being murdered in New Zealand?

Yes. Reform the welfare state and stop paying bludgers, criminals and parasites forcing them to earn a living and having less time to beat the crap out of the whanau.
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November 20, 2011 6:37pm
Other_Andy

How low can Labour go?
We haven’t seen the bottom of the barrel yet it seems.

Whaleoil has posted a good example.

http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2011/11/labour-is-the-nasty-party-ctd-19/#disqus_thread
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November 20, 2011 6:42pm
bereal

OK Manolo,
what do you think about my suggestions for one possible solution @ 5.03 ?
any merit ?
Got a better one ?
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November 20, 2011 6:42pm
reid

ok bereal, in the real world I would have the same attitude as expressed in my 6:25 but I would disguise it in the “wrap-around” vernacular the lefties wished they’d thought of before Bennett started using it a few years ago. Bet they’re kicking themselves over that slip.

Anyhoo, essentially I am serious. The only way to solve this and a whole wave of lessor crimes is to first identify through data sharing amongst all govt agencies without exception, those who share traits of people who have committed these crimes in the past and use that data to develop programs which identify risk factors in eventually, infants. Then monitor and intervene accordingly throughout their childhoods.

Profiling is anaethema to some people and I’m not quite sure why. I understand their concern at big brother but what else other than that can solve this problem for it relates to a whole pool of people who could be identified if only we were allowed to.

So hence my uncertainty. Are people who want to address and solve this problem prepared to do what it takes, or not? That’s the question bereal.
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November 20, 2011 6:48pm
Manolo

bereal, I agree with you. Harsher sentences are the only way to stop these beasts.
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November 20, 2011 6:48pm
nasska

It doesn’t bear thinking about what the rest of the world must think of us when the three monthly (approx) news of yet another kiddy being beaten to death by its whanau makes it on to the world media. I downloaded the following extract from a well read British blog about the time of the Kahui tragedy.

……”I saw an ad in an English Travel magazine this morning. It said “See New Zealand the Maori way”.
I’m taking a guess the itinerary might be:
Day 1: Pub brawl
Day 2: Collect dole cheque**
Day 3: Kill one of the kids
** I fully acknowledge this is an inaccurate representation – it’s called a welfare payment in NZ. “…….

Before the usual apologists for NZ’s underclass start dribbling over their keyboards I don’t find it even slightly funny…just a sad indictment for members of a racial group which spouts aroha & hides baby killers.
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November 20, 2011 6:54pm
Other_Andy

More Labour propaganda on the front page of the NZ Herald
With compliments of Audrey Young

Why even pretend you are objective anymore?

Goff: ‘New Zealand is not for sale’
Labour leader Phil Goff this afternoon implored party faithful to help him spend every minute between now and the election “to save our precious public assets from the auction block”.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767462
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November 20, 2011 7:00pm
reid

nasska people who have this attitude cross all racial groups and is normally a result of reaction to abusive circumstances in their own childhood.

Arseholes are everywhere, apparently.

That’s the root of this problem, it’s not racial, not in any way.
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November 20, 2011 7:06pm
nasska

reid

I don’t share your conviction that baby/toddler killing is not a racial problem but at least we agree that those who do it are arseholes. Your observation that bashees become bashers is also pertinent.

I also differ on your proposal to profile the population in general to identify the abusers in particular. Too Orwellian & smacks of Dear Leader’s Utopia where we are all known by numbers which are tattooed on our foreheads just in case the mind control drugs we receive cause us to forget them.

In any case it is one thing to know who is likely to abuse kiddies & quite another to use this info for the purposes it is intended. Can you imagine some violent shithead agreeing to sit down with a counsellor & sort out his inner feelings before shacking up with some little slut wanting a hard man & another kid to top up the DPB. Life as I know it doesn’t work that way.

What would happen is that the social worker would be intimidated to signing off the case with fingers crossed & bugger off down the road to do a real job on someone not so nasty. We seem able to take someone’s drivers licence off them at the drop of a hat but I’ll wait with baited breath to see some low life forfeiting his balls to a panel of social workers.

Sorry reid……I don’t doubt your sincerity but your proposal scores an F-!
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November 20, 2011 7:54pm
publicwatchdog

An explanation of ‘the gambles’ (known as derivatives) – that NZ Prime Minister John Key arguably helped to start, when he was Head of Derivatives for Merrill Lynch?

It’s an ‘informed opinion’ – so probably won’t be very popular with some ‘Kiwibloggers’?

😉
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

“All bets are off on another financial calamity”

Professor Prem Sikka
Professor of Accounting
Centre for Global Accountability
Essex Business School
University of Essex

“Even if the banks are ring-fenced, the destructiveness of their gambling will still engulf society. In December 2007, just before the banking crash hit the headlines, the face value of the gambles (known as derivatives) on the movement of the price of commodities, interest rates, exchange rates and anything else, was $1,148 trillion.

Global GDP is about $65 trillion.

Just 1 per cent negative exposure or loss can wreck the global economy.

Where will the money for gambling come from? Inevitably, it will be provided by financial intermediaries from ordinary people’s savings. If the gambles pay off, bankers and intermediaries will collect mega-bucks.

If they don’t, then the savings of ordinary people will be decimated. Remember, ordinary people are never asked by fund managers or insurance companies whether their savings should be channelled into complex gambles. So the ring-fencing of investment operations will not shield innocent bystanders.

The way to curb destructive gambling is by removing the benefit of limited liability from investment banking. Let the bankers play with their own money and do not permit them to dump their losses on others.”

________________________________________________________________________

t http://www.tribunemagazine.co.uk/2011/09/all-bets-are-off-on-another-financial-calamity/

All bets are off on another financial calamity

The banking crisis has been making headlines for the past three years. Bankers indulged in an orgy of irresponsibility, gambled other people’s money, lied about the quality of their products, published opaque and misleading accounts and collected telephone number salaries.

by Prem Sikka
Saturday, September 24th, 2011

Yet there has been no public inquiry, no royal commission and no prosecutions, even though taxpayers initially coughed up £1.16 trillion in loans and guarantees to bailout the banks. This amount now stands at around £500 billion and is a major cause of the austerity programme.

……………………

The proposals have generally been welcomed by the press and political parties in this country, but are unlikely to solve banking woes. A key problem has been the ability of the banks to create credit which has no relationship with the real economy. The ICB does not consider any of the issues arising from this. Why is the Government leaving the creation of credit and money to private corporations?

The Commission favours the corporate structure enjoyed by banks, but fails to address any of the systemic pressures that resulted in the current crisis.
For example, as corporate entities, banks are susceptible to stock market pressures to report ever-increasing profits.
This encourages banks to push shady products and indulge in excessive risk-taking.
Banks, in common with many other corporations, are focused on the short term.
The tenure of the typical FTSE350 chief executive is four years – and declining. In this period, they have to collect as much private loot as possible, because their economic success and media stardom is measured by remuneration.
So there is every incentive to sacrifice the long term.
Some of the pressures could be alleviated by alternative forms of banking ownership structure – for example, co-operatives, mutualisation, ownership by communities, employees or even nationalisation, but none of these are considered by the ICB.

Contrary to some press comments, the ring-fencing proposals do not embrace the Glass-Steagall Act, passed in the United States in 1933 and subsequently repealed in 1999. The ICB has not asked for a legal separation of the retail and speculative sides.
Its “Chinese walls” proposals will not work.
Many banks have complex corporate structures spawning the globe and many operate in tax havens with poor regulation. So it is not clear how these operations are to be classified or ring-fenced.
Ring-fencing will not insulate banks from the pressures for higher profits and executive remuneration. Northern Rock did not have an investment arm, but went belly-up as directors sought cheap money to expand profits and remuneration.
A legal separation and return to mutualisation for some banks may curb some of the worst excesses, but this is not recommended by the ICB.

…………………..

The increase in the capital base may be welcomed, but the banks failed because they were unable to meet their financial obligations. Therefore, the focus should be on solvency or the availability of cash, but it attracts no particular suggestions.

Overall, the Commission’s report is a poor document. It has been produced without any public hearings and collections of facts. The holes in it make it unfit to be the basis of future regulation. For example, it says nothing about the conflicts of interests, incestuous relationship with credit rating agencies, predatory organisational culture that promotes dodgy products (such as payment protection insurance), opaque accounting practices, and the failures of auditors, bank boards and non-executive directors, the capture of the regulators, or the need for responsible lending to generate jobs.”

Prem Sikka
Professor of Accounting
Centre for Global Accountability
Essex Business School
University of Essex

AABA Website: http://www.aabaglobal.org
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Forwarded in the public interest by

Penny Bright
Independent Candidate for Epsom
waterpressure@gmail.com
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November 20, 2011 8:12pm
Yvette

Goff: ‘New Zealand is not for sale’
 Labour leader Phil Goff this afternoon implored party faithful to help him spend every minute between now and the election “to save our precious public assets from the auction block”.

It would be nice then for Goff and Co to offer us some sort of reparation for what he did under the Lange/Douglas Labour leadership – sort of a bit like what is done for Maori for past wrongs.
Only thing is the bastards would use our money to do it.
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November 20, 2011 8:16pm
Sofia

So, Penny, John Key helped start a financial practice that accumulated at $ 1,148 trillion [assuming these are US$, that would be roughly NZ$ 1518.12 trillion]

Imagine what a man like this could do for New Zealand if he channelled his apparent talents into something like being Prime Minister.
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November 20, 2011 8:34pm
Johnboy

What aspect of public interest does utter boredom feature in Penny?
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November 20, 2011 8:35pm
Johnboy

All of them red, blue, green, yellow or brown spend our money Yvette.

Some colours are just more spendthrift than others.
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November 20, 2011 8:38pm
nasska

A comely redhead was thrilled to have obtained a divorce and dazzled by the skill and virtuosity of her lawyer, not to mention his healthy income and good looks. In fact, she realized, she had fallen head over heels in love with him, even though he was a married man.
“Oh, Sam,” she sobbed at the conclusion of the trial, “isn’t there some way we can be together, the way we were meant to be?”
Taking her by the shoulders, Sam proceeded to scold her, “Snatched drinks in grimy bars on the edge of town, lying on the phone, hurried meetings in sordid motels rooms – is that really what you want for us?”
“No, no…” she sobbed, heartsick.
“Oh,” said the lawyer. “Well, it was just a suggestion.”
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November 20, 2011 8:42pm
RightNow

Less than a week to go until the vile arse that is Labour gets a big enema. Camel Septic-looney at number 24 on the list can fuck off too once this gets the widespread attention it deserves:
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2011/11/labour-is-the-nasty-party-ctd-19/#more-31487
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November 20, 2011 8:49pm
Monique Watson

Public Watchdog is doing my head in. And property investors are not criminals.

http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=7654457283081405519#editor/target=post;postID=2707491401750326282

In any case financial and property markets are not a fucking conspiracy.
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November 20, 2011 8:50pm
Falafulu Fisi

Penny Dim, can you find out from your list of professors if they can pinpoint the cause of the 1929 crash? Derivatives didn’t exist back then?

I bet you that none of those fucking professors had a clue. If you disagree, then point me out exactly to some publications from those professors which clearly explained the cause.

Look, the recent financial crisis wont be the last, even if derivatives trading is completely outlawed. Reason? Because Govt will still interfere in the markets via regulations and central control. Now, have you seen the video I linked to in one of the GD threads for you to watch of why crashes/bubbles happens?

I recommend that you start educating your thick head so that I don’t have to reply to you every time you bring up that fucking stupid argument of yours about derivative trading securities.
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November 20, 2011 8:53pm
Scott Chris

reid says:- “That’s the root of this problem, it’s not racial, not in any way.”

I agree. Killing your kids reflects a loss of culture, not a cultural practice. Maori were yanked out of the stoneage only a few generations ago and for a long time the official government policy was one of assimilation in an attempt to impose European values on a bunch of hunter gatherer warriors.

Was well intentioned but fucked things up big time. Many simply lost their values.
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November 20, 2011 9:15pm
Other_Andy

“Maori were yanked out of the stoneage only a few generations ago and for a long time the official government policy was one of assimilation in an attempt to impose European values on a bunch of hunter gatherer warriors.”

You have read too many ‘contemporary’ (Politically correct re-written) history books.
Maori themselves were very keen to ‘adapt’ to ‘European culture’. A lot of them were involved in whaling, sealing and the trade of resources and very successful at that.
Also…..
1. This was 200 years ago.
2. We have spent billions in the last 30 years on “Maori culture’.
3. European values do not exist. Cultures in Europe, and cultural values, are too different to lump them all together.

In the last 200 years, hundreds of thousands of immigrants have been ‘assimilated’ in New Zealand and adapted to “Enlish-New Zealand “ values.
Very few murder their offspring.
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November 20, 2011 9:36pm
reid

Mi>3. European values do not exist.

Er…

Shakespeare, Mozart, Magna Carta, Westminster democracy, stuff like that, is what I call “European values” O_A. Apparently, these do actually exist.
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November 20, 2011 10:05pm
Scott Chris

Other_Andy says:- “Maori themselves were very keen to ‘adapt’ to ‘European culture’.”

Yes some were. Others wanted the Europeans to fuck off. Either way, many simply lost their values.

Thing is, Maori children brought up in stable middle class Maori families do just as well as their European counterparts. That would suggest that the problem isn’t racial. It’s mainly socio-economic.

Also, Pacific Islanders who have emigrated to New Zealand since the 50’s have retained much of their family structure and value system, so whilst they are genetically similar to Maori, their rates of child murder are proportionately lower, even though they have a similar average socioeconomic status.

Can only be one thing really. A breakdown of a values system.

If not, what do you think the problem is, and how should we address it?
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November 20, 2011 10:16pm
Scott Chris

European culture:

Breakfast, bedroom, marriage, knife and fork, manners, education, fairness, government, science, religion, work ethic, taste, entertainment, leisure, sport, reading, media, democracy, war, house, money, job, market, pets, parks, hobbies, music, school, government, house, ownership, etc.

edit: humour, satire, cartoons, magic, fighting, philosophy, monarchy…..
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November 20, 2011 10:24pm
Other_Andy

@reid

Shakespeare is English
Mozart is German
The Magna Carta and Westminster democracy are English.

While there might be an ‘overhang’ and while some cultures (now) have shared values, Anglo Saxon, Germanic, Nordic, Slavic and Latin countries had and still have distinct cultures and values.
Samoans and Maori are Polynesians. Why make the distinction between Samoans, Tongans, Nuians and Maori?
While Maori is a Polynesian culture, you make the cultural distinction but when it comes to a Belgian and a Serb (There is more of a cultural difference between those two than between a Tongan and Maori culture) you lump them all together?
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November 20, 2011 10:25pm
Other_Andy

“That would suggest that the problem isn’t racial. It’s mainly socio-economic.”

I think it is neither.
There are many more ‘non-Maori’ families in New Zealand that are just as poor or poorer than Maori (Whatever that might mean). They don’t kill their kids.
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November 20, 2011 10:28pm
publicwatchdog

Just in case any ‘Kiwibloggers’ missed this?

All this focus on social welfare beneficiaries – how about the arguably FAR more costly ‘corporate welfare’ beneficiaries?

Could NZ slice in half our $82 billion central government budget – by ‘cutting out the contractors’?
(Especially consultants?)

How does replacing the ‘bureaucracy’ with the more expensive ‘contractocracy’ – help the public majority?

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1111/S00095/wheres-nationals-corporate-welfare-reform.htm

Where’s National’s ‘corporate welfare’ reform?
Thursday, 3 November 2011, 5:28 pm
Press Release: Penny Bright

PRESS RELEASE: Independent Candidate for Epsom Penny Bright:

“How many billion$ of public monies could be saved by ‘CUTTING OUT THE CONTRACTORS’?
____________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright
Independent Candidate for Epsom
waterpressure@gmail.com
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November 21, 2011 12:08am
publicwatchdog

Falafulu Fisi – the reason why I should regard your opinion as more expert and/or considered than that of

Prem Sikka
Professor of Accounting
Centre for Global Accountability
Essex Business School
University of Essex

AABA Website: http://www.aabaglobal.org

is???

FYI – here is Professor Prem Sikka’s CV:

http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/PremsikkaCV.pdf

Kind regards,

Penny Bright
Independent Candidate for Epsom
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November 21, 2011 12:11am
Joseph Carpenter

FFS Publicwatchdog stop talking absolute crap.

NZ government budget for FY2011/12:
Total spending = $82.0 billion.
Vote Social Welfare = $31.3 billion (38.2%).
Vote Health = $14.0 billion (17.1%).
Vote Education = $12.2 billion (14.9%).
Debt Servicing = $3.6 billion (4.4%).
Total = 75% of all spending just on those four items. And you believe spending would magically reduce 50%($41 billion) if only we used the public service instead of private contractors = serious psychotic break with reality.
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November 21, 2011 1:20am
Manolo

Staggering hypocrisy: http://michellemalkin.com/2011/11/20/occupy-hotel/
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November 21, 2011 6:52am
publicwatchdog

And of course ‘Joseph Carpenter’ – you have (unlike anyone in NZ) a comprehensive ‘cost-benefit’ analysis upon which you are relying which proves across all state sectors that the ‘contractocracy’ is more cost-effective than the ‘bureaucracy’?

errr…. you’re not a consultant or private contractor with your own private snout in the public trough – perchance?

Asking nicely – of course – in a caring, albeit inquisitive way?

🙂

Penny Bright
Independent Candidate for Epsom
waterpressure@gmail.com
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November 21, 2011 6:55pm

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