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124 Responses to “General Debate 28 December 2011”
Saw IRON LADY yesterday. Excellent acting and its quite riveting and very moving (Streep totally deserves an Oscar for this, + Broadbent Best Supporting Actor);
but I left feeling sad with a primary focus on Margaret Thatcher’s decrepitude with her high points in confused flashback. This is a chick flik (director, producer et al are women) so the focus is on Margaret’s love affair with Denis. This is lovely (my wife LOVED it) but I feel a first biopic on the Iron lady should really focus on British Politics first (Post-war Economy/Cold War/Falklands/Poll Tax/Reagan/etc) and this kind of film should come later. Seeing her anonymously buying milk in a dairy in the opening scene is pretty sad.
It’s more a movie about growing old, like Michael Cains’ movie “Is Anyone There” (2009) about magic and the small boy in the retirement home. Better as a TV series. What’s next, Ronald Reagan and a movie about alzheimers? Churchill and the ill effects of whiskey and cigars?
Had a wee cubby house when I was a kid. Used to build little matchstick towers in it with my pyro neighbour and then light them and watch them burn. Luckily it had a concrete floor, and we didn’t live in a bushfire prone area, so I guess it was reasonably safe.
Dont pay mate ,no one else in NZ does. Please put the tape on you Tube so we can all see how john banks the leech of Epson, is clinging on to his master ,john keys bum,Please put the tapes on You Tube please on http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10775580&ref=rss
Keys govt has learnt well from our masters the commie chinese on how to deal to the press.
The Race Relations Commissioner has supported a historian’s objections to the phrase “Maori child abuse”.
“It’s nonsensical to talk about ‘Maori child abuse’ rather than ‘child abuse’,” Joris de Bres said yesterday.
…
ABUSE RATES Hospital admissions of children after assaults, 2008-9, by ethnic group:
* Maori, 41 per 100,000 people
* Pacific, 22
* European, 11
* Asian, 9
Source: The Children’s Social Health Monitor
Joris de Bres is right. It’s just child abuse even if Maori are over represented in the stats.
Thing is, when Europeans first met Maori, we were still sending poor kids and orphans up chimneys and down mines, so the concept of a child’s rights is something that appears to have evolved subsequently, and embraced by a fairly well educated middle class.
So presumably the answer to the problem is to educate everyone properly and identify the psychos early.
plebe, why the hell should the taxpayer have to pay. This guy new what he was up to, if it was a genuine mistake why did he rush off to the press. I really don’t give a fat rats arse about Key or Banks but why should someone break the law and then get his court costs paid by you and i. This shit has to stop.
As for De Bres, what a useless suckling tit. He’s cause more racial grief and ill feeling in this country then ever there was before his poxy little office came into existence. Why the Nats haven’t closed down this politically correct, one sided, bullshit artist is beyond me.
I read somewhere recently that Maori have one of the absolute worst child abuse/ child murder rates in the World. Whether your skin colour is Black or White or Yellow or Green that’s fucking disgraceful and unacceptable. Joris De Bres grow some balls and accept that we have a problem here….don’t just blame ‘Colonialism’ and ‘Racism’ and ‘Evil Pakehas’…actually grow some balls, man-up and do something about this bloody disgrace and shame on the nation…
When we lived in Lower Hutt, I built a tree hut for my kids. I had a guy from the council come around and tell me that because it was more than 1m off the ground it needed a consent. I told him and the council to to go fuck themselves and it is still there eleven years later being enjoyed by the new owners kids. What is wrong with these bureaucrats?
Anthony Lawrence Roma, 45, was jailed for life after breaking into a Napier home and murdering Simon Reaney in 1991.
He bludgeoned Simon to death with a car jack before trying to kill his father and then his 11-year-old brother, who was put on life support for two weeks.
Other Andy ,just fucking unbelievable,FUCKING UNBELIEVABLE.
I swear to god this Bullshit makes me puke.
I truly believe the family here have been dealt the crulest blow.
This is what you get for funding self mastubation by Maori and I only think its getting worse.
P.s If you think Im a redneck,well my tainui wife of 18 nyears and 4 kids are New Zealanders to be proud of.
“Maori need to take ownership of the problem and stop trying to whitewash it. I am sick of academics trying to sanitise our behaviour.”
I agree with joris de bres. I do not believe i should take responsibility and “ownership” of the actions of other maori simply because i am maori also. My responsibility is limited to supporting a justice system that punishes and treats those who break the law and a social system that cares for those who are victims of abuse. Asking for an entire race of people to take ownership of abuse only serves to diminish the accountability of those who commit abusive acts as their race and heritage become an excuse for their behaviour. It also serves to further racial prejudice against people the vast majority of which do not abuse children.
Over the past five years, the average employee at the “big four” mining giants of BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto, Anglo American and Xstrata has received an additional 211pc of his or her salary, according to Deutsche Bank analysts: “In other words, the average employee has received just over two years’ additional pay on top of what would have been received had salaries remained flat on 2005 levels.”
Nowhere is the phenomenon more evident than in Australia, where the scarcity of workers to feed Asian demand for commodities has not been helped by tight restrictions on immigration. Even truck drivers are now getting paid salaries of A$150,000 to A$180,000 (£96,000 to £116,000) and they can be trained up from scratch. The more skilled professionals whose experience commands a premium – mining engineers, resource geologists – are in even tighter supply.
This is the reason why so many Kiwis move to Australia.
You think raising the minimum wage in New Zealand is going to help?
This is something New Zealand can’t compete with.
At least not as long as Labour, the Greens and their activist third party supporters trying to block and sabotage ALL mining of coal, gas, oil, gold and other minerals.
Even exploring mother Gaia for minerals, oil and gas is an affront to some of those these post modern religious nutbars.
Longknives (620) Says:
December 28th, 2011 at 10:12 am
I read somewhere recently that Maori have one of the absolute worst child abuse/ child murder rates in the World. Whether your skin colour is Black or White or Yellow or Green that’s fucking disgraceful and unacceptable. Joris De Bres grow some balls and accept that we have a problem here….don’t just blame ‘Colonialism’ and ‘Racism’ and ‘Evil Pakehas’…actually grow some balls, man-up and do something about this bloody disgrace and shame on the nation…
Where did he deny that abuse was a problem? Where did he blame colonialism? That was Rankin and de bres said his explanations were absurd. And what are you doing about child abuse? Nothing i suspect and why should you? You arent an abuser so what the hell are you supposed to do?
Joris de Bres is highlighting stupid terminology that undermines healthy race relations and his point is correct. Such terminology does nothing to address child abuse.
Asking for an entire race of people to take ownership of abuse only serves to diminish the accountability of those who commit abusive acts as their race and heritage become an excuse for their behaviour.
Maori aren’t a race !!!
Culture and society of Maori is not predicated on race or that of one united people, it is based on that of individual tribes and extended families.
Ownership therefore needs to be taken by the leaders of said iwi and hapu for the individual actions of their members. If not, then what use is there of iwi and hapu rangatira supposedly having sovereign rights and leadership over their peoples if they’re not going to exercise it ?
A statutory Maori body is hinting it wants the right to hunt whales.
The Maori Fisheries Trust, Te Ohu Kaimoana in its annual report today also criticised advocates who want a marine sanctuary around the Kermadec Islands and claims that if they are forced to stop using low-wage Asian labour Maori will lose $80 million from the value of their fishery.
CEO Peter Douglas said the trust had been attending the International Whaling Commission (IWC) meetings for six years.
“It does, however, remain a concern for us that indigenous communities around the world do not have food security in relation to the sustainable harvest of various whale species given the highly political and polarised nature of the IWC,” Mr Douglas says. …
Weihana, you make a good point. If an adolescent underage boy is sexual abused by a adult man and I refer to the offender as a homosexual pedophile I get accused of being a homophobe. However, we get racist hiding behind pseudonym saying that all half breeds with children should have videos cameras in their homes and no one says anything.
Maori may be overrepresented in child abuse but homosexuals are more overrepresented sexual abuse of adolescents.
If an adolescent underage boy is sexual abused by a adult man and I refer to the offender as a homosexual pedophile I get accused of being a homophobe.
This is because Chuck it’s standard feminist propaganda to claim that men who abuse boys and I’m talking more about young boys, like that US football coach Sandusky who was seen in a shower sodomising a 10-year-old – are hetero not homo.
After all, when you’re trying to glorify a lifestyle its no good at all to have something unpleasant like pederasty associated with the poor oppressed victims and naturally everyone knows hetero men are just the worst kind of creature around so who cares about denigrating them as a matter of fact its essential to, otherwise who on earth is going to be our victim’s protagonist?
Given the 173 people who died in the 2009 fires i imagine fire safety is a sensitive area for australian authorities. It’s easy to look at this one case and say its just a kids playhouse but what happens when some guy tries to build something similar to live in? I’m not saying the council shouldn’t use some common sense but i think you lack any appreciation for the difficulty, and necessity, of their job. People can die in bushfires and regulation exists to reduce that potentiality. Bottom line is this family didn’t obtain consent to build in a high risk fire zone. Maybe the council could do a better job and maybe this family could have consulted the council about how to build safely in a high risk fire zone.
Given the 173 people who died in the 2009 fires i imagine fire safety is a sensitive area for australian authorities.
Yes but Weihana those bushfires were massive with huge fireballs. One hardly thinks the fuel from a tree house is going to turn an otherwise gentle blaze into a raging killer.
Other Andy, The worst thing about the greens and labour being opposed to mining and oil production, is that they are denying a great number of kiwis some significant earning potential. They are also forcing people to emigrate to Oz and splitting up families, in search of these lost opportunities.
Furthermore they are denying NZ a very significant amount of revenue, through salary and wage earnings, which would act as a huge liquidity boost to the economy, enabling higher wages throughout the economy. They, however, prefer a communist nirvana whereby they dictate who earns what, and in the process, they get their greasy maulers allover my hard earned.
There are lots of examples, I read about them all the time. You combine this attitude with the Enabling Actthe NDAA Congress have just passed and you realise the land of the free and the home of the brave has a pending change of lifestyle on its hands, all courtesy of the “war on terror” which for some reason some people still believe really is all about improving the security situation of the Western alliance.
pollywog (761) Says:
December 28th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
Asking for an entire race of people to take ownership of abuse only serves to diminish the accountability of those who commit abusive acts as their race and heritage become an excuse for their behaviour.
Maori aren’t a race !!!
Culture and society of Maori is not predicated on race or that of one united people, it is based on that of individual tribes and extended families.
Ownership therefore needs to be taken by the leaders of said iwi and hapu for the individual actions of their members. If not, then what use is there of iwi and hapu rangatira supposedly having sovereign rights and leadership over their peoples if they’re not going to exercise it ?
I think you know as well as i that that is bullshit. Iwi and hapu, thankfully, do not have sovereign rights over “their” peoples and pretending that they do when they do not will achieve nothing. Abuse is commited by individuals and they alone are responsible. You can quibble over the definition of race but the reality is that “maori child abuse” is racially charged terminology that will in no way address the causes of child abuse but will stigmatize a large group of people, 99.959% of which did not have their children admitted to hospital for an assault.
“The MF Global scandal has made it clear that the integrity of the system has disappeared,” said a good friend of mine, Tuur Demeester, who runs Macrotrends, a Dutch-language newsletter out of Brugge. “The banks are insolvent, the governments are insolvent, and all that’s left is for the people to realize what’s going on—and that will start a panic.”
I think you know as well as i that that is bullshit. Iwi and hapu, thankfully, do not have sovereign rights over “their” peoples and pretending that they do when they do not will achieve nothing.
It’s not bullshit !!!
Iwi rangatira have sovereign rights guaranteed by the treaty over their peoples ever since they signed as leaders of their individual iwi and not as representative leaders of a collective Maori race.
Governance in the form of Kawanatanga was ceded, Sovereignty in the form of Rangatiratanga was not. That Rangatira choose not to exercise sovereignty over their peoples contributes somewhat to Maori acting without the checks and balances collective responsibility by iwi can give to enforce acceptable norms of behaviour.
I agree the term in question is offensive and tars non abusing Maori with the same brush, which is why i’d like to see a breakdown of stats for Maori abusers given for individual iwi.
See if theres correlations to Maori living in their rohe, urban, rural, population, age etc etc then put that to iwi to solve for their own people using their own resources.
Break the big problem down to manageable bits with iwi responsible for their own, instead of whatever it is that no one with any real authority in Maoridom seems to want to do anything about as is, and even if they did, they can’t speak collectively for Maori because Maori culture and society isn’t set up for one person/leader to speak on it’s behalf.
Every time someone reinforces the ‘Maori as a race’ crock of shit it gives more opportunity for racists to point the finger at Maori as a collective race with the associated collective responsibility to fix up their own affairs.
And basically that aint gonna fucken happen unless there’s an iwi and hapu buy in and willingness to accept ownership at that level.
In this case I find it hard to disagree with ‘pollywog’. Prior to the “Treaty”, even prior to European influence there was no unified Maori nation. Descendants from the first canoes could trace their ancestry back to their arrival but they lived within tribal territories with a little intertribal trading & shitload of intertribal warfare being the main contact between hapu. There were even scraps between Iwi but they united against outside interference. Even nowadays about the only thing that unites Iwi is the call to make “Whitey” pay for every wrong, genuine or imagined, that has occurred over the past two centuries. Therefore a pan Maori solution to the problem is unlikely.
Pollywog has always championed the concept of Iwi providing justice & support for their own people. I don’t totally disagree but I don’t know how it would work in practise. The urbanisation of Maori from the 1950′s to 1970′s saw many Maori from all over the country congregate in eg. South Auckland, the Hutt Valley, Porirua, & they have become alienated from the influence of tribal elders. More than a few of the ratbags causing problems wouldn’t have a clue who their fathers were never mind their Hapu or Iwi.
It would seem that Maori don’t want Pakeha to intervene other than send a few more truckloads of money to tribal organisations who will spend it, not on protecting kids, but on endless hui where fat Maori leaders & social workers have korero until their gums are raw & decide that nothing can be done. If the problem is to be sorted it will by interceding at grass roots level.
Apart from a few ignorant rednecks no one is suggesting that all Maori abuse kids….it is only a relatively small group of no hopers who give the rest a bad name but they sure cause a lot of unnecessary misery.
I don’t totally disagree but I don’t know how it would work in practise.
Yes nasska. The insurmountable issue to me is: equal treatment under the law. How can a separate justice system specifically for Maori possibly achieve that?
What I think should happen is that Maori should be resourced to fight it not through the justice system but through their own networks to prevent it becoming an issue. If and when it hits the justice system it’s then out of their hands but they should be resourced to deal with it upstream. I understand and concur with their argument that the European institutional approach we operate is not designed to help them in their own way. But the thing I think Maori need to do in order to get those resources is to come up with and publish a plan that’s not all hui’s and koha but which will in fact result in improved outcomes and that plan needs to be subject to public input. That’s in return for getting taxpayer funding for it which after all done properly would amount to hundreds of millions a year. That seems fair enough to me but Maori I suspect would think that would be condescending and therefore they would not agree.
Growing up, I was the biggest Prince fan, still am i suppose.
How could one not be when he wrote stuff like this…
We need a new breed — Leaders, Stand Up, Organize
Don’t let your children watch television until they know how to read
Or else all they’ll know how to do is cuss, fight and breed
No child is bad from the beginning… they only imitate their atmosphere
All time favourite prince songs would probably be ‘If i was your girlfriend’ and ‘Do me baby’ which on googling just now came across them being performed live…AWESOME !!!
Shame about the audio/videao quality but still… If there be a God in Heaven please don’t let me die without seeing him perform in NZ.
Looked on all political pages and read most News feeds,nothing ,not a bloody comment even condeming this absolute Bullshit.
The family must be distraught.
Know this Roma, you need to be hung from the highest tree and any person who stands with this arshole should get the same treatment,because he dosent give a shit about anything but HIS RIGHT TO LEAD A NORMAL LIFE.
Poor kid and this piss weak outfit lets his killer out,Im livid about this.
Another general warning on the new light bulbs the Gweens want to make compulsory. You’re aware of course if they break you have to evacuate the room for 15-20 minutes due to the mercury vapour and if you cut yourself on one of the fragments you could get mercury poisoning and you shouldn’t vacuum the fragments as that spreads it to other parts of the house simply pick it all up and wrap it in newspaper and they emit really bad electromagnetic energy and when I say really bad I mean it damages your health but never mind, it’s all about the enviwonment, isn’t it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a planet vandal who should probably be imprisoned in a re-education camp until they learn how to wespect humans and human wights and the pwanet, like the Gweens do.
The hapu is the conduit to get the message through but I still query whether it is able to reach those who need reached most. The abusers are generally urban dwellers, of part Maori descent who by choice or circumstance have lost touch with those who could provide stability. They have created another grouping which is neither orientated to traditional Maori nor Pakeha society & is too new to have its own culture or roots.
I agree that whatever action is decided on has to have a practical focus & be prevented from becoming another soakhole for scarce funds. ie less yap, more action. If bureaucracy could fix anything NZ would already be paradise on Earth.
The ghetto culture in the USA is similarly disfunctional & shares the demographic of being young, ethnic, poorly educated & alienated. If Maori self determination in matters of welfare & justice would work it is infinitely better than South Auckland becoming another Detroit.
If bureaucracy could fix anything NZ would already be paradise on Earth.
According to the lefties it’s not enough bureaucracy which is preventing said paradise and for evidence they are right they no doubt think that when Hulun expanded the bureaucracy 2000-2008 everything went marvelously so the theory is correct, they no doubt think.
If Maori self determination in matters of welfare & justice would work it is infinitely better than South Auckland becoming another Detroit.
Yeah but how do you get around the equal treatment under law problem? Also, the Maori idea of welfare is to hold expensive consultations and discussions all over the place and as a taxpayer I simply refuse to give them anymore per head than a non-Maori welfare recipient of whatever category gets. So if Maori want to conduct their own welfare operations in the “Maori way” then by definition their recipients are going to get what’s left over after deducting all the travel, salary and koha expenses for said consultation so I don’t think their recipients are going to enjoy that very much.
I’m afraid while I have a great deal of affection and respect for our Maori brothers and sisters I have to say they seem to be at times extraordinarily precious in terms of certain approaches which they insist the country pays for. For example the way they have all these Maori health workers who go out to the poor Maori to educate them about completely basic shit that everyone else simply takes for granted. Why for example are we required to fund a Maori health worker to visit poor Maori families in a taxpayer funded vehicle so the family can be told basic things like, if you don’t brush your teeth everyday they’ll rot, when all the other non-Maori poor families don’t get this special treatment but are expected to use their own resources to upskill themselves in such basic matters the same way everyone else does. It’s this precious hand-holding approach that I object to on the grounds that I believe it’s better for the person to be taught how to fish in other words if the poor family is instead given instructions on how to get in touch with the right people for advice and the reasons why that would be a good idea, so it becomes their responsibility, not someone elses. There isn’t enough of that in the Maori approach with respect to using taxpayer resources and the reason IMO for this attitude is they feel entitled because they’re victims of the horrid colonials. Even today. I personally think if Maori “victims” were more often given the message from other Maori to get over it, then problems like the one we’re discussing today would gradually disappear off the radar. It’s a question of expectations and if Maori amongst themselves expected themselves, as warriors do, to succeed in whatever they wanted to do, and as warriors, held themselves and amongst themselves to account for doing that and correcting brothers and sisters who were straying, they could, as a race, outdo Europeans in any field they entered. This is because possessing such attitudes and conducting such practices is not a race thing it’s a life thing and no matter what race you are, this is the only way to succeed in anything. OTOH by doing what they presently do they simply perpetuate indeed exacerbate the sense of victimhood so it not only doesn’t improve it simply gets worse as more and more people get the deeper and deeper message that I am entitled because I am a victim of [fill in blank]…
No doubt the fact that the ”santa” who shot himself and his family in the USA was yet another mad muslim mad at his daughter for dating a non muslim , will not see the light of day here. How joyful the darkness.
Sorry, but in as much as it took generations to become welfare dependent and culturally colonised it’s also gonna take generations to emancipate ourselves from the mental slavery and religious dogma used to entrap us.
I’m working towards 2 generations from now and by integrating a wider Pasifikan perspective based in worthy traditional models and values and by taking what’s best about transplanted Eurocentric culture and ditching the rest.
The point being, none but ourselves can free our mind. You can’t do it for us. Like it or not, I and others like me are the future you better get used to.
The best you can do in the meantime is not fuck me off too much that i hold a grudge when the power balance shifts
If self determination is introduced then the concept of equality in the eyes of the law goes out the window. Point is I can’t see the justice system being completely hived off……in practise youth, family & district court matters would run separately but the higher courts would retain the status quo.
As to the economics……setting the system up would cost a fortune & it’s anyone’s guess how expensive it would be to run the system. If the same facilities were shared it would help but regrettably one Pakeha system Maori adapted to with undue haste was that of empire building by those in authority.
It would be hard to debate the contents of your last paragraph. When I think of the problem Maori face I’m often forced to recall of the pigheadedness of my maternal grandfather. His trade in “the Old Country” was that of a wire puller. When he & his wife emigrated to NZ in 1919 he found that there was no call for wire pullers locally so he sat on his ever increasing arse & moaned for the next forty years oblivious to the problems he caused to those around him. So too with some Maori who, finding little call for their preferred vocation of “warrior”, form criminal gangs & spend the rest of their worthless existences in & out of gaol making the lives of their families & communities sheer hell.
The reason humans are so successful as a species is their ability to adapt……I fear that not all individuals or groups adapt as quickly as others.
Even more alarming than the kill an pakeha guy , is the fact that Raymond Ratima, who killed seven family members is being prepared for release.. He is currently in a minimum security facility..The staff are very concerned. Naturally enough , his family do not want him to be released..
Why should anyone who took the lives of seven people ever be allowed out??
none but ourselves can free our mind. You can’t do it for us. Like it or not, I and others like me are the future you better get used to.
pw most people don’t even know that thoughts are things and what drives everything is our thoughts. Thoughts begat actions and actions begat outcomes which becomes our lives.
The reason why people kill children in their care is because for years they have thought the wrong thoughts. They have thought uncaring angry negative thoughts and not thought much if ever about love and peace and kindness and giving.
Teaching people who are poor or who think thoughts like our child killer is simply a matter of teaching them how to think. It’s a question of breaking a lifetime of habit. Now this is not a simple task of course it’s not but with our modern understanding of psychology and education, designing programs to achieve this for any given category be they child killer or druggie or alky or lazy or dumb but well meaning or whatever, is a very doable thing.
That’s how you do it and when you implement it as I’ve said previously you don’t give them a choice since most won’t want it so you have to make them do it. As I’ve also said previously you must do it non-judgmentally as well.
pw if you understand how humans tick you will know this would in fact work. It would have to be very well architected to work and very well managed and done cross party for it would take at least a generation for this to be take hold across the board and for that reason alone it will never be done since lefties won’t tolerate their base being eroded so they would pretend such a program is victimisation notwithstanding aforesaid non-judgemental approach but that’s lefties for you. Disgusting creatures aren’t they.
Mind you , Caruthers from the parole board spends most of his time swanning around at overseas conferences.. He thinks he and his board are above any kind of scrutiny. Who here has any confidence that Raymond Ratima will not reoffend?
Regurgitated Chocolate with Fleas in his Underwear
…”The best you can do in the meantime is not fuck me off too much that i hold a grudge when the power balance shifts”……
By the time you no hopers “free your minds” & “emancipate yourselves from mental slavery” we’ll have discovered another planet & buggered off. You’ll have to beg us to come back & sort out the place after you’ve hangied the last of the tribe next door anyway.
By the time you no hopers “free your minds” & “emancipate yourselves from mental slavery” we’ll have discovered another planet & buggered off. You’ll have to beg us to come back & sort out the place after you’ve hangied the last of the tribe next door anyway.
heh…more like you’ll have eaten yourselves out of house, home and family from being too chickenshit and just plain batshit crazy to come out and face reality beyond the walls and gates you’ll have built around your communities to protect your precious culture and keep your race pure.
And in that respect I’m talking only of you inbred eurocentrists cos if anyone, it’ll be Asians who’ll discover a means and place to bugger off to first.
Can’t see that i’ll be begging you guys for anything let alone to come back if you decide to fuck off.
…in practise youth, family & district court matters would run separately but the higher courts would retain the status quo.
That’s why I don’t like it nasska. There’s a lot of nasty DC stuff in the assault area that I don’t want marae justice to be available for. Also fraud and similar, has no place on the marae.
But youth and some family but presumably not parent-child custodial determinations or would you have marae for those?
As to the economics……setting the system up would cost a fortune & it’s anyone’s guess how expensive it would be to run the system. If the same facilities were shared it would help but regrettably one Pakeha system Maori adapted to with undue haste was that of empire building by those in authority.
Exactly and what is the cost benefit?
Honestly I think we are looking at the wrong causal factor here. Maori justify the call for their own justice system by pointing to the imprisonment rate of Maori and claiming it’s therefore the fault of the justice system and not the fault of their own people who become subject to it. Now I don’t wholeheartedly concur with this conclusion and the reason is the system currently gives young offenders heaps of chances before prison finally ensues and frankly you have to be by definition a bit of a habitual bad bugger for some time in the first place before you even come near it.
Most of my Maori friends over the years have alluded more than once to the fact that many times they’ve been stopped when they’re in a flash car or whatever. I accept cop racism exists. This doesn’t mean it’s systemic in the justice system and it also doesn’t mean it’s widespread in the cops either. But if you were arguing the case for a separate system to me this is the only possible causal factor in the higher imprisonment rates, there are no other visible possible causal factors other than the individual’s own behaviours.
I recognise of course the fact that Maori would be exceptionally good at designing punishments which would work much more effectively for them than our current one-size-fits-all prison approach. If we could incorporate that into the sentencing regime when sentencing a Maori offender possibly through use of a Komatua panel who knew the defendant and who advised the sentencing judge. That would be a good thing.
But replicating all the evidential processes, cross-examination rules, et al, how would that be even possible on your average marae courtroom?
The people of Turangi are ashamed by what happened there..but why would any parents leave such young children unattended at home or in a strange country ? Weird to me..I traveled in Asia with my very pretty son when he was young , I watched him like hawk. I would never have left him on his own , in a hotel room , with the hotel babysitters etc..These parents like the McCanns seem very ignorant..Paedophiles are everywhere..they like nothing better than a little blond child. Twenty years ago the Wgtn police would warn parents at the start of summer that there were 200 known paedos in the area..the worst areas were swimming pools and shopping malls.
How can people travel the world and be ignorant about paedophilia?
Yeah thanks but no thanks. I’m gonna teach kids how to think and be Pasifikan just like i’m teaching you.
pw you sound like you’re some sort of angry gay feminist university lecturer tutor so I’m picking you’re probably a Fafafine.
Am I right?
In which case please don’t teach the kids anything in fact don’t even go near them lest their pure minds become befouled with your fetid corrupt evil not because you’re a Fafafine of course for that would be fafafinist but just because you’re you.
joanna agree re: Ratina – do you know if preventive detention was available when he did it?
…”Can’t see that i’ll be begging you guys for anything let alone to come back if you decide to fuck off.”……
What makes you think that “Pasifikan” people could unite to the extent that they could run a country. I made the point in my 2.16pm that there never was a Maori nation. Maoridom is fractured along the lines of hapu & iwi & the divisions are deep. Even Islanders don’t always assimilate easily with Maori & then there’s the intermarriage of the past couple of hundred years.
It’ll take a bit longer than a couple of generations before you could all sit down & agree on how to open the keg at the after match function.
If you believe it, the fuel is cold – 100 degrees. Now how can that possibly be? The govt has consistently underplayed this unfolding disaster. The entire pacific fish stocks could become poisonous forever. That’s if the fuel melts into the water table which is just 5 metres underground due to being seaside and when that happens a steam explosions results and fuel is scattered in all directions.
They’re building a replacement city for Tokyo, right now.
It wouldn’t take much of a reduction in reoffending to produce real savings. All crime has a cost to society.
2) Honest Maori citizens get caught up in police profiling. I don’t doubt that it pisses them off untold but it is not hard to understand why the cops act this way.
3) The biggest risk I see with a system of Maori justice is the risk of corruption. Not at the level of a brown paper bag buying a not guilty verdict, rather organised Maori crime bosses using standover tactics to get what they want. For example the taking of Kai Moana for customary use involves elders issuing permits…locally a few of the poor old buggers have been threatened & forced to issue these permits to local arseholes. If marae justice went the same way what we call civilisation is finished.
and once Maori truly realise who they are and where they fit in the general scheme of things as it relates to Pasifika they’ll stop being so stand offish and we will assume our rightful position in this corner of the world.
The journey i’m undertaking will have a ripple effect you can’t even imagine.
Fort Hood was “an unfortunate incident of workplace violence.”
The Times Square car bomber had ‘mortgage problems’.
The terrorist who tried to bring down a domestic US flight was called an ‘Unruly Passenger’
Don’t want to scare anybody now do we?
And as Pete George keeps on telling, it will never happen in New Zealand.
The title/concept of Tui Manu’a seems to be as much a spiritual role as opposed to a political dynasty. Although he may have held influence I would guess that distances & lousy canoe timetables would have precluded the office holder from interfering much in things tribal.
It could be a mistake to hold ones breath waiting for a Pasifikan messiah.
I’ll be following your trip with interest……although you hold some strange ideas I respect the mana of anyone prepared to put their personal safety on the line to follow a dream. Let us know when you leave & hopefully you can keep us updated with the expedition’s progress.
You have to be amused at TV1 news 28-12-2011
Ethnic bro women bonker bashed to death in Queensland, (no worries) ie idc*
Maori boy racer killed in BOP, killing young bro,with him no worries,ie idc*
its good to get maori crime out of the way early at the beginning of the news, so we can worry about the more important worries
*i dont care
The title/concept of Tui Manu’a seems to be as much a spiritual role as opposed to a political dynasty.
Yeah…Some Samoans are still pissed off the Manu’ans didn’t intercede with the Tongan occupation wayyyyy back in the day.
The thing with messiahs is, like Christ, they’re metaphors for a consciousness that takes time to achieve critical mass, but when they do…
and cheers for the best wishes. Leaving in a little over a fortnight. Soooo looking forward to doing the reverse migration from the Americas to Samoa, stopping off at Cocos island, Galapagos, Marquesas and Tahiti, possibly Cook islands as well.
Naturally i’ll be getting tattoos of the journey, hopefully from each place visited and with each place visited, the Pasifikan bond grows stronger
Imagine what the 2 crew of Maori on their waka are going to preach and teach the next generations in future years. Pretty sure it won’t be land based tangata whenua crap with whakapapa back to a canoe from a displaced persons perspective who has no connection to the sea.
It wouldn’t take much of a reduction in reoffending to produce real savings. All crime has a cost to society.
nasska can you please draw me a broad picture of how marae justice might work? For example would it try the case: i.e. present evidence and determine guilt or innocence or would the normal courts be used for that then sentencing turned over to the marae? Also the broad categories of what is dealt with there vs DC and also if they do try cases how those cases might be allocated?
Real broad brush, it’s Christmas after all
Soooo looking forward to doing the reverse migration from the Americas to Samoa, stopping off at Cocos island, Galapagos, Marquesas and Tahiti, possibly Cook islands as well.
Naturally i’ll be getting tattoos of the journey, hopefully from each place visited and with each place visited, the Pasifikan bond grows stronger
pw can you expand on history behind said pilgrimage?
Joana must be disappointed her usual Muslim-bashing post didn’t draw more comment, but most who would normally jump in to support her are busier feeding their needs closer to home today.
However, the NZ Herald, continuing its Xmas tradition of allowing all sorts of fringe swillers to have their say over the holiday season, posts this:
Yes, Abraham Rabinovich, from Jerusalem, no less, pontificating on the Arab Spring. He lost me from the very first paragraph where he reinvents history to posit that the colonial powers left the Middle East to its own devices after WWII.
In fact, the Arab Spring is yet another phase in their struggle to throw off colonial occupation, which need not be by direct imposition of military occupation when we have proxies to do that for us.
And that’s just covering one paragraph!
But wait, there’s more! Then he approvingly quotes the brilliantly creative, but completely irrational, “Spengler” as an authoritative source. Yet another who invents history convenient to his thesis – mainly that Islam and Secularists are all bad and doomed, or some such. Oh, and Global Warmists, as well, just to cover the field.
Oh dear, I suppose the next few days will see Chris de Freitas popping up with his usual garbage, or, even, better, Lord (but not House of Lords) Monckton – another fine example of evil masquerading as the civilized white man with a burden to bear!
Maori need Pasifika for what ? hardly your average educational standard, and no we do not believe the majority of us that we should fall to our knees when some deity is mentioned.
Is it time that the only Islanders allowed to immigrate to NZ had skills we need ? you know just like Europeans, or are Islanders owed ? if so why are they owed ?
Seems that a 16 year old has just been arrested for the despicable attack in Turangi.
This is a tragic development Elaycee.
Pathos personified.
Nigel Latte would have extremely useful insights into this since his background was dealing with adolescent child sex abusers before he became famous. I hope he does a detailed discourse in due course.
Let’s also hope and pray a positive change in policy comes out of all this once its over. This is a never again moment for NZ, I’m picking. My intuition is this has quietly outraged more people than any other child offence has done. More than Mia Glassie. Say what you like, that’s my intuition. Therefore in my mind a policy change will come through public demand the only question is will it be an idiotic authoritarian knee-jerk policy change, a rational balanced policy change or a watered down weak limp wristed policy change because the offender was a victim of [fill in the blank...]?
I suggest i-Predict runs a stock on those outcomes, that would be an excellent market.
Possible problem for justice-seen-to-be-done too, since he’s under 18 therefore subject only to youth sentencing laws. (Any lawyers out there would appreciate info re: implications of that.)
A 16 year old youth can be seen at Court in Taupo at 2pm tomorrow, or will he get name suppression and be taken away with his hoodie over his head?
Where are you Sharples, Turia, Harawira, Bradford?
Grumpy but isn’t it true that Maori actually as a matter of fact based on my own experience really actually truly do look down on Pacific Islanders?
I hear you guys all the time refer to them as dumb coconuts, for example. Funny how Joris doesn’t think that’s a problem but I guess he knows what he’s doing.
Correct me if I’m wrong grumpy but that’s what really happens in real life, isn’t it?
Steve apologies above for mistaking you for Elaycee.
Yes, reid, its truly appalling that a 5 year old has been subjected to such an attack. Young kids should be loved / nurtured and be able to grow up without having to worry about nightmares of this nature.
But what policy changes do you believe would make a difference?
In fact, the Arab Spring is yet another phase in their struggle to throw off colonial occupation, which need not be by direct imposition of military occupation when we have proxies to do that for us.
Luc the “Arab Spring” my friend is Zbigniew Brzezinski’s export from the East European colour revolutions. You know of course Brzezinski is a senior behind scenes (i.e. not discussed by the MSM) player in Obama’s administration, same as all those ex-Wall Street “advisors?”
The latest revolution BTW is the one in Russia, dubbed the White Revolution.
I doubt Putin is amused in fact he’s already signaled to the US he knows about it therefore the US continues at its own peril.
But that Luc is how it plays out on the real world stage.
If you choose to look at geopolitics through a human-rights refugee-camp lens you will never get the bigger picture and will never understand what’s really happening.
@ reid
I like the ‘dumb coconuts’ Many are my friends.
It is the Maori that piss me off. I seem to owe something to Maori, but I was born here.
Tax this, Tax that. When do whities get the Maori Tax? opps, sorry, we already pay that.
Who is next inline for a neverending koha payout?
But I feel no shame, ,I don’t expect Australia to be ashamed because some Nzer got murdered there last week.
Just bullshit emotion from the herald, its a rag, everyone here agrees on that so why even mention it.
And if we knew the boys name, seriously what would anyone of us do?, kill him?kill his family ? I think not, he’ll be a monster for sure , a absolute nothing as well but all this talk of bullets and “I’ll do this” is tiresome, because none of us will kill him.
Ah, luc ‘Hamas’ Hansen is back.
The archetypal self-hating white left wing agitator.
You lost me when you mentioned the “Arab Spring”.
I thought you would be a happy chappy Luc? All over the Middle East the Islamists are winning the elections and are starting to deal to the ‘secularists’, the few left over Christians and those uppity women.
The Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafists will win the elections in Egypt and they have already held talks with your favourite group, Hamas. The fact that they will run out of money won’t be a problem, they can always blame the evil Zionists and start a little war to deflect the attention.
Who know they might be victorious, win this one and finally drive those evil Jews into the sea?
Wouldn’t that make you happy?
Is it time that the only Islanders allowed to immigrate to NZ had skills we need ? you know just like Europeans, or are Islanders owed ? if so why are they owed ?
In case you were wondering how the USA came to be in so much financial trouble, here is an explanation given by a Agricultural University professor in terms his students could understand:
Capitalism:
You have two cows.
You sell one and buy a bull.
Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows.
You sell them and retire on the income.
Crony Capitalism:
You have two cows.
You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax exemption for five cows. The milk rights of the six cows are transferred via an intermediary to a Cayman Island company secretly owned by your CFO who sells the rights to all seven cows back to your listed company.
The annual report says the company owns eight cows when in fact there are seven listed, with an option on six more.
Now do you see why a rich first world country is heading down the shitter?
In Crony Capitalism you forgot the part where the ‘company receives government subsidies. The government then ‘regulates’ the industry, taxes the competition and receives election donations from the grateful company.
Other_Andy (978) Says:
December 28th, 2011 at 8:21 pm
@nasska
In Crony Capitalism you forgot the part where the ‘company receives government subsidies. The government then ‘regulates’ the industry, taxes the competition and receive election donations from the grateful company.
Re your 6.50pm. If Marae or Maori justice sees the light of day I think it would be phased in over a period. Maybe sentencing only initially but there’s a big enough pool of Maori lawyers to pick judges from. It could involve a Judicial panel of tribal leaders & elders but we’d be heading into dangerous waters without a judge as head panelist. As I noted before I could be made comfortable with the concept but for practical & cost reasons I think it should exclude the High, Supreme & Appeal Courts. I see no reason why existing court facilities couldn’t be used by both systems.
Police to lay the same charges as before but I haven’t a clue on how prosecution or defense would work.
What I can’t see working is pure marae justice as many defendants would be ignorant of their iwi/hapu. There has been too much urbanisation which has distanced Maori from their largely rural tribal roots for the system to be other than a pan Maori one. In fact I can’t see how many people who would qualify for Maori justice could prove that they were Maori.
So many questions & so few answers. Implemented right it could work but there is potential for its introduction to be the greatest cockup of the century.
As a result of this work Police became interested in a 16-year-old youth from Turangi and negotiated (????????WTF) his attendance at Turangi Police Station this afternoon. He has subsequently been charged with sexual violation, aggravated wounding and burglary.
Sounds like ANOTHER damn maori to me.opps the first race sorry
My point there was that the colonial occupation of the Middle East never ceased, it simple morphed into another form, well encapsulated by the word “quisling.”
If you think the Obama administration is behind the uprisings, well, good for you. I’m sure you also think that Neil Armstrong only steeped on the moon in a Hollywood backlot, right, my friend?
Other_Andy, I never left. I always keep a watching brief, but I’m just too busy with work and the little one to bother righting the many wrongs disseminated from this blog.
But as far as the rest of your post is concerned, yes, I’m happy there is progress towards freedom in the Arab world, just as I’m unhappy that we Westerners are foregoing ours as fast as species are going extinct because of us. And I’m also unhappy that, behind the scenes, we are still working to subvert the Arab Spring.
I guess that’s the geopolitics Reid is expert in.
And your Bibi-inspired scenario of Jews running into the sea is pure fantasy. One argument of Rabinovich was an equivalence implied between Israel and Palestinians. There is only one partner in that conflict who can create peace, and it is not the brutally oppressed Palestinians.
…I haven’t a clue on how prosecution or defense would work.
nasska I analyse operational efficiency in the commercial world for a living and I don’t see it happening here in any positive way under any possible configuration compared to the current scheme.
Do you think a middle ground to progress this would be negotiating a pilot scheme for say, Maori Youth Crime. Give that a go and see what happens? Youth are the easiest to change and also one would expect useful lessons from there which could then be applied to older offenders.
If you think the Obama administration is behind the uprisings, well, good for you. I’m sure you also think that Neil Armstrong only steeped on the moon in a Hollywood backlot, right, my friend?
Not really Luc that’s insultingly superficial actually but nothing less than what I’ve come to expect. Shame we can’t have a serious discussion sometime. Ah well.
Bevan Smith from Owaka died on Christmas day, aged 60.
Bevan was the father of Kylie who was raped and murdered by Paul David Bailey in 1991. Bailey was on bail for another attempted rape at the time. He was subsequently convicted of raping another young girl in Central in 1989 – 1990.
Every year Bevan and his family would turn up to the parole board to oppose Bailey’s release — successfully, thankfully. His demise is attributed, in part, to the stress of these appearances and the death of his daughter. He had a minor victory in that Bailey has been denied the right to annual applications.
Why does a supposedly civilised society make the victims of crime go through this crap?
Trialing Maori youth crime would be a logical way to go. I still can’t get my head around WHO the clientelle of these Courts will be. A person is allowed to identify as of Maori descent with as little as 1/32 Maori DNA.
Will it be a case of being Maori one week & Pakeha the next depending on who gives the softest sentence for what crime?
I wouldnt assume hes a maori. Lots of white rapists out there. hell, arent the majority of serial killers white dudes?
in other news, merry christmas scumbags. dimes had a great week. i shot my first POV porno this week. I gotta say it came out great! ill let you all know when i upload it to redtube
I’m happy there is progress towards freedom in the Arab world
They will never be free. Until they free themselves from their self-imposed ideology that keeps them in submission and enslaved.
Their concept of ‘freedom’ and ‘peace’ has very little in common with ours.
And….
Most Middle Eastern countries have been colonised for almost 1400 years now but not by those evil Europeans and Americans.
Ask the Amazigh, Kurds, Turkmen, Copts, Armenians, Chaldeans, Assyrians and Zaghawa.
That is, those who have survived the mass murders, cultural genocide and forced assimilation.
dime and manolo, it’s sad to see you guys think this guy is guilty already. If he is, go ahead, but lets say innocent until proven guilty. One of the best things about this country… we are lucky to live in a free country, I am so glad. And don’t start the abuse… just makes you even more sadder.
jonno – of course if hes guilty. goes without saying.
and whos starting abuse? apart from you suggesting we are “sad” lol
reid – yea hes 16. IF HE IS GUILTY (happy?) then he will be out mid-20s and will go on to ruin someone elses life. we dont rehabilitate in this country and even if we did, this guy is wrong in the head and cant be helped. bullet to the back of the head. invoice the family for costs
Dime, didn’t abuse you. I said it’s sad you found him guilty already
It would be worse if this guy wasn’t guilty and the scumbag who is guilty is still out there. The police need to find the person and have been know in the past to make mistakes. Lets hope they have found the person this time and he gets whats coming to him. Being 16 and going to jail, I am sure he wont survive a day.
But let me tell you of the time Mahatma Ghandi stepped onto US soil and was immediately asked what he thought of western civilisation.
He replied, “I think that would be a good idea.”
Have you ever looked at the history of Europe?
Your ‘tu quoque’ reply seems to come up whenever you get stuck.
I thought not.
As part of my degree I studied European history.
I think his reply is still relevant today.
Now I know you see ‘Western’ civilisation and democracy as pure evil, could you enlighten me what your pinnacle of civilisation is. Either your ideal ideology or country will do.
Luc, if you despise the West so much why don’t you move to some enlightened Eastern nation, such as Pakistan?
It would be lovely to receive your unbiased reports from such cultured country.
The attack on the 5 year old reminded me of a similarly repugnant murder in 2007: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10425413 of school teacher Lois Dear in Tokoroa, and had me perplexed as to the motives behind the offenders actions being somewhat spontaneous and brutal. I asked myself the question as to why do offenders do these heinous crimes and get the usual litany of excuses of abuse , broken home etc.
However I could not under any circumstance empathise with the offender and like many on this page would prefer an immediate permanent solution.
Also in the instance of the mass murderer Ratima, I can see no valid reason why this man should be released, his crime was extreme therefore his incarceration should be likewise, permanent.
December 28th, 2011 at 8:18 am
back to work today. Bugger!!
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:39 am
Regulations gone mad in Australia. Read and weep at the incredible stupidity of the local “authorities”: http://www.news.com.au/national/million-fine-for-the-kids-backyard-cubby-put-up-without-council-approval/story-e6frfkvr-1226230858362
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:51 am
Saw IRON LADY yesterday. Excellent acting and its quite riveting and very moving (Streep totally deserves an Oscar for this, + Broadbent Best Supporting Actor);
but I left feeling sad with a primary focus on Margaret Thatcher’s decrepitude with her high points in confused flashback. This is a chick flik (director, producer et al are women) so the focus is on Margaret’s love affair with Denis. This is lovely (my wife LOVED it) but I feel a first biopic on the Iron lady should really focus on British Politics first (Post-war Economy/Cold War/Falklands/Poll Tax/Reagan/etc) and this kind of film should come later. Seeing her anonymously buying milk in a dairy in the opening scene is pretty sad.
It’s more a movie about growing old, like Michael Cains’ movie “Is Anyone There” (2009) about magic and the small boy in the retirement home. Better as a TV series. What’s next, Ronald Reagan and a movie about alzheimers? Churchill and the ill effects of whiskey and cigars?
But definately worth the visit.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:51 am
@Manolo
“Regulations gone mad in Australia.”
Any different in New Zealand?
Vote:If I want to have a swimming pool in my backyard I will have to fence it.
My property backs onto a lake….
Go figure.
December 28th, 2011 at 9:00 am
Yes, Andy. As per your description, it happens here too.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 9:02 am
Pay up, you “innocent” fool: http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10775580&ref=rss
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 9:05 am
For the trifecta: Comrade Joris spouting his usual rubbish: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10775559
Why isn’t he fired by Key’s Labour lite?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 9:17 am
Had a wee cubby house when I was a kid. Used to build little matchstick towers in it with my pyro neighbour and then light them and watch them burn.
Luckily it had a concrete floor, and we didn’t live in a bushfire prone area, so I guess it was reasonably safe.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 9:18 am
Dont pay mate ,no one else in NZ does. Please put the tape on you Tube so we can all see how john banks the leech of Epson, is clinging on to his master ,john keys bum,Please put the tapes on You Tube please on
Vote:http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10775580&ref=rss
Keys govt has learnt well from our masters the commie chinese on how to deal to the press.
December 28th, 2011 at 9:23 am
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10775559
The Race Relations Commissioner has supported a historian’s objections to the phrase “Maori child abuse”.
“It’s nonsensical to talk about ‘Maori child abuse’ rather than ‘child abuse’,” Joris de Bres said yesterday.
…
ABUSE RATES Hospital admissions of children after assaults, 2008-9, by ethnic group:
Vote:* Maori, 41 per 100,000 people
* Pacific, 22
* European, 11
* Asian, 9
Source: The Children’s Social Health Monitor
December 28th, 2011 at 9:41 am
Joris de Bres is right. It’s just child abuse even if Maori are over represented in the stats.
Thing is, when Europeans first met Maori, we were still sending poor kids and orphans up chimneys and down mines, so the concept of a child’s rights is something that appears to have evolved subsequently, and embraced by a fairly well educated middle class.
So presumably the answer to the problem is to educate everyone properly and identify the psychos early.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 9:46 am
plebe, why the hell should the taxpayer have to pay. This guy new what he was up to, if it was a genuine mistake why did he rush off to the press. I really don’t give a fat rats arse about Key or Banks but why should someone break the law and then get his court costs paid by you and i. This shit has to stop.
As for De Bres, what a useless suckling tit. He’s cause more racial grief and ill feeling in this country then ever there was before his poxy little office came into existence. Why the Nats haven’t closed down this politically correct, one sided, bullshit artist is beyond me.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 10:12 am
I read somewhere recently that Maori have one of the absolute worst child abuse/ child murder rates in the World. Whether your skin colour is Black or White or Yellow or Green that’s fucking disgraceful and unacceptable. Joris De Bres grow some balls and accept that we have a problem here….don’t just blame ‘Colonialism’ and ‘Racism’ and ‘Evil Pakehas’…actually grow some balls, man-up and do something about this bloody disgrace and shame on the nation…
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 10:15 am
Manolo
When we lived in Lower Hutt, I built a tree hut for my kids. I had a guy from the council come around and tell me that because it was more than 1m off the ground it needed a consent. I told him and the council to to go fuck themselves and it is still there eleven years later being enjoyed by the new owners kids. What is wrong with these bureaucrats?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 10:21 am
Wonder why no one’s asked Aunty Tari what Whanau Ora would have or will do differently to address child abuse amongst Maori ?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 11:08 am
‘Kill a Pakeha’ murderer released
Anthony Lawrence Roma, 45, was jailed for life after breaking into a Napier home and murdering Simon Reaney in 1991.
He bludgeoned Simon to death with a car jack before trying to kill his father and then his 11-year-old brother, who was put on life support for two weeks.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10775596
The Parole Board last month granted his second release from prison, saying he he had made “huge changes in his life” since he was recalled.
Oh, that makes me feel a lot safer.
Vote:Maybe somebody on the Parole Board can rent him a room?
December 28th, 2011 at 11:45 am
‘Kill a Pakeha’ murderer released ”
He has rights dont ya know…watch this space.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 11:45 am
Other Andy ,just fucking unbelievable,FUCKING UNBELIEVABLE.
I swear to god this Bullshit makes me puke.
Vote:I truly believe the family here have been dealt the crulest blow.
This is what you get for funding self mastubation by Maori and I only think its getting worse.
P.s If you think Im a redneck,well my tainui wife of 18 nyears and 4 kids are New Zealanders to be proud of.
December 28th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
“Maori need to take ownership of the problem and stop trying to whitewash it. I am sick of academics trying to sanitise our behaviour.”
I agree with joris de bres. I do not believe i should take responsibility and “ownership” of the actions of other maori simply because i am maori also. My responsibility is limited to supporting a justice system that punishes and treats those who break the law and a social system that cares for those who are victims of abuse. Asking for an entire race of people to take ownership of abuse only serves to diminish the accountability of those who commit abusive acts as their race and heritage become an excuse for their behaviour. It also serves to further racial prejudice against people the vast majority of which do not abuse children.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
Boom time for workers at the mining giants
Over the past five years, the average employee at the “big four” mining giants of BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto, Anglo American and Xstrata has received an additional 211pc of his or her salary, according to Deutsche Bank analysts: “In other words, the average employee has received just over two years’ additional pay on top of what would have been received had salaries remained flat on 2005 levels.”
Nowhere is the phenomenon more evident than in Australia, where the scarcity of workers to feed Asian demand for commodities has not been helped by tight restrictions on immigration. Even truck drivers are now getting paid salaries of A$150,000 to A$180,000 (£96,000 to £116,000) and they can be trained up from scratch. The more skilled professionals whose experience commands a premium – mining engineers, resource geologists – are in even tighter supply.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/mining/8979101/Boom-time-for-workers-at-the-mining-giants.html
This is the reason why so many Kiwis move to Australia.
Vote:You think raising the minimum wage in New Zealand is going to help?
This is something New Zealand can’t compete with.
At least not as long as Labour, the Greens and their activist third party supporters trying to block and sabotage ALL mining of coal, gas, oil, gold and other minerals.
Even exploring mother Gaia for minerals, oil and gas is an affront to some of those these post modern religious nutbars.
December 28th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
Longknives (620) Says:
December 28th, 2011 at 10:12 am
I read somewhere recently that Maori have one of the absolute worst child abuse/ child murder rates in the World. Whether your skin colour is Black or White or Yellow or Green that’s fucking disgraceful and unacceptable. Joris De Bres grow some balls and accept that we have a problem here….don’t just blame ‘Colonialism’ and ‘Racism’ and ‘Evil Pakehas’…actually grow some balls, man-up and do something about this bloody disgrace and shame on the nation…
Where did he deny that abuse was a problem? Where did he blame colonialism? That was Rankin and de bres said his explanations were absurd. And what are you doing about child abuse? Nothing i suspect and why should you? You arent an abuser so what the hell are you supposed to do?
Joris de Bres is highlighting stupid terminology that undermines healthy race relations and his point is correct. Such terminology does nothing to address child abuse.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
Asking for an entire race of people to take ownership of abuse only serves to diminish the accountability of those who commit abusive acts as their race and heritage become an excuse for their behaviour.
Maori aren’t a race !!!
Culture and society of Maori is not predicated on race or that of one united people, it is based on that of individual tribes and extended families.
Ownership therefore needs to be taken by the leaders of said iwi and hapu for the individual actions of their members. If not, then what use is there of iwi and hapu rangatira supposedly having sovereign rights and leadership over their peoples if they’re not going to exercise it ?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
A statutory Maori body is hinting it wants the right to hunt whales.
The Maori Fisheries Trust, Te Ohu Kaimoana in its annual report today also criticised advocates who want a marine sanctuary around the Kermadec Islands and claims that if they are forced to stop using low-wage Asian labour Maori will lose $80 million from the value of their fishery.
CEO Peter Douglas said the trust had been attending the International Whaling Commission (IWC) meetings for six years.
“It does, however, remain a concern for us that indigenous communities around the world do not have food security in relation to the sustainable harvest of various whale species given the highly political and polarised nature of the IWC,” Mr Douglas says. …
– http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/6182773/Maori-hint-at-interest-in-whaling
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
Weihana, you make a good point. If an adolescent underage boy is sexual abused by a adult man and I refer to the offender as a homosexual pedophile I get accused of being a homophobe. However, we get racist hiding behind pseudonym saying that all half breeds with children should have videos cameras in their homes and no one says anything.
Maori may be overrepresented in child abuse but homosexuals are more overrepresented sexual abuse of adolescents.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
I just can’t believe that an individual assessed as having a “medium to high risk” of sexual reoffending is even allowed out on parole. WTF?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
If an adolescent underage boy is sexual abused by a adult man and I refer to the offender as a homosexual pedophile I get accused of being a homophobe.
This is because Chuck it’s standard feminist propaganda to claim that men who abuse boys and I’m talking more about young boys, like that US football coach Sandusky who was seen in a shower sodomising a 10-year-old – are hetero not homo.
After all, when you’re trying to glorify a lifestyle its no good at all to have something unpleasant like pederasty associated with the poor oppressed victims and naturally everyone knows hetero men are just the worst kind of creature around so who cares about denigrating them as a matter of fact its essential to, otherwise who on earth is going to be our victim’s protagonist?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
Manolo (5,733) Says:
December 28th, 2011 at 8:39 am
Regulations gone mad in Australia. Read and weep at the incredible stupidity of the local “authorities”: http://www.news.com.au/national/million-fine-for-the-kids-backyard-cubby-put-up-without-council-approval/story-e6frfkvr-1226230858362
Given the 173 people who died in the 2009 fires i imagine fire safety is a sensitive area for australian authorities. It’s easy to look at this one case and say its just a kids playhouse but what happens when some guy tries to build something similar to live in? I’m not saying the council shouldn’t use some common sense but i think you lack any appreciation for the difficulty, and necessity, of their job. People can die in bushfires and regulation exists to reduce that potentiality. Bottom line is this family didn’t obtain consent to build in a high risk fire zone. Maybe the council could do a better job and maybe this family could have consulted the council about how to build safely in a high risk fire zone.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
Given the 173 people who died in the 2009 fires i imagine fire safety is a sensitive area for australian authorities.
Yes but Weihana those bushfires were massive with huge fireballs. One hardly thinks the fuel from a tree house is going to turn an otherwise gentle blaze into a raging killer.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
Give this lardball a keg of beer and move him on,hes a waste of money and a bad example of a sports person.
http://nz.yahoo.com/s/359941
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
Other Andy, The worst thing about the greens and labour being opposed to mining and oil production, is that they are denying a great number of kiwis some significant earning potential. They are also forcing people to emigrate to Oz and splitting up families, in search of these lost opportunities.
Furthermore they are denying NZ a very significant amount of revenue, through salary and wage earnings, which would act as a huge liquidity boost to the economy, enabling higher wages throughout the economy. They, however, prefer a communist nirvana whereby they dictate who earns what, and in the process, they get their greasy maulers allover my hard earned.
Contemptible assholes.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
Has anyone been noting the way cops behave in the states these days?
http://www.alternet.org/rights/153536/madness%3A_even_school_children_are_being_pepper-sprayed_and_shocked_with_tasers_/?page=entire
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/dec/22/family-suing-city-of-snyder-claiming-they-were/
There are lots of examples, I read about them all the time. You combine this attitude with
Vote:the Enabling Actthe NDAA Congress have just passed and you realise the land of the free and the home of the brave has a pending change of lifestyle on its hands, all courtesy of the “war on terror” which for some reason some people still believe really is all about improving the security situation of the Western alliance.December 28th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
pollywog (761) Says:
December 28th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
Asking for an entire race of people to take ownership of abuse only serves to diminish the accountability of those who commit abusive acts as their race and heritage become an excuse for their behaviour.
Maori aren’t a race !!!
Culture and society of Maori is not predicated on race or that of one united people, it is based on that of individual tribes and extended families.
Ownership therefore needs to be taken by the leaders of said iwi and hapu for the individual actions of their members. If not, then what use is there of iwi and hapu rangatira supposedly having sovereign rights and leadership over their peoples if they’re not going to exercise it ?
I think you know as well as i that that is bullshit. Iwi and hapu, thankfully, do not have sovereign rights over “their” peoples and pretending that they do when they do not will achieve nothing. Abuse is commited by individuals and they alone are responsible. You can quibble over the definition of race but the reality is that “maori child abuse” is racially charged terminology that will in no way address the causes of child abuse but will stigmatize a large group of people, 99.959% of which did not have their children admitted to hospital for an assault.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 1:18 pm Vote:
December 28th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
I think you know as well as i that that is bullshit. Iwi and hapu, thankfully, do not have sovereign rights over “their” peoples and pretending that they do when they do not will achieve nothing.
It’s not bullshit !!!
Iwi rangatira have sovereign rights guaranteed by the treaty over their peoples ever since they signed as leaders of their individual iwi and not as representative leaders of a collective Maori race.
Governance in the form of Kawanatanga was ceded, Sovereignty in the form of Rangatiratanga was not. That Rangatira choose not to exercise sovereignty over their peoples contributes somewhat to Maori acting without the checks and balances collective responsibility by iwi can give to enforce acceptable norms of behaviour.
I agree the term in question is offensive and tars non abusing Maori with the same brush, which is why i’d like to see a breakdown of stats for Maori abusers given for individual iwi.
See if theres correlations to Maori living in their rohe, urban, rural, population, age etc etc then put that to iwi to solve for their own people using their own resources.
Break the big problem down to manageable bits with iwi responsible for their own, instead of whatever it is that no one with any real authority in Maoridom seems to want to do anything about as is, and even if they did, they can’t speak collectively for Maori because Maori culture and society isn’t set up for one person/leader to speak on it’s behalf.
Every time someone reinforces the ‘Maori as a race’ crock of shit it gives more opportunity for racists to point the finger at Maori as a collective race with the associated collective responsibility to fix up their own affairs.
And basically that aint gonna fucken happen unless there’s an iwi and hapu buy in and willingness to accept ownership at that level.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
Celente’s picks for 2012:
http://www.glebedigital.co.uk/blog/?p=5007
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
Weihana
In this case I find it hard to disagree with ‘pollywog’. Prior to the “Treaty”, even prior to European influence there was no unified Maori nation. Descendants from the first canoes could trace their ancestry back to their arrival but they lived within tribal territories with a little intertribal trading & shitload of intertribal warfare being the main contact between hapu. There were even scraps between Iwi but they united against outside interference. Even nowadays about the only thing that unites Iwi is the call to make “Whitey” pay for every wrong, genuine or imagined, that has occurred over the past two centuries. Therefore a pan Maori solution to the problem is unlikely.
Pollywog has always championed the concept of Iwi providing justice & support for their own people. I don’t totally disagree but I don’t know how it would work in practise. The urbanisation of Maori from the 1950′s to 1970′s saw many Maori from all over the country congregate in eg. South Auckland, the Hutt Valley, Porirua, & they have become alienated from the influence of tribal elders. More than a few of the ratbags causing problems wouldn’t have a clue who their fathers were never mind their Hapu or Iwi.
It would seem that Maori don’t want Pakeha to intervene other than send a few more truckloads of money to tribal organisations who will spend it, not on protecting kids, but on endless hui where fat Maori leaders & social workers have korero until their gums are raw & decide that nothing can be done. If the problem is to be sorted it will by interceding at grass roots level.
Apart from a few ignorant rednecks no one is suggesting that all Maori abuse kids….it is only a relatively small group of no hopers who give the rest a bad name but they sure cause a lot of unnecessary misery.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 2:36 pm
I don’t totally disagree but I don’t know how it would work in practise.
Yes nasska. The insurmountable issue to me is: equal treatment under the law. How can a separate justice system specifically for Maori possibly achieve that?
What I think should happen is that Maori should be resourced to fight it not through the justice system but through their own networks to prevent it becoming an issue. If and when it hits the justice system it’s then out of their hands but they should be resourced to deal with it upstream. I understand and concur with their argument that the European institutional approach we operate is not designed to help them in their own way. But the thing I think Maori need to do in order to get those resources is to come up with and publish a plan that’s not all hui’s and koha but which will in fact result in improved outcomes and that plan needs to be subject to public input. That’s in return for getting taxpayer funding for it which after all done properly would amount to hundreds of millions a year. That seems fair enough to me but Maori I suspect would think that would be condescending and therefore they would not agree.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
Growing up, I was the biggest Prince fan, still am i suppose.
How could one not be when he wrote stuff like this…
We need a new breed — Leaders, Stand Up, Organize
Don’t let your children watch television until they know how to read
Or else all they’ll know how to do is cuss, fight and breed
No child is bad from the beginning… they only imitate their atmosphere
All time favourite prince songs would probably be ‘If i was your girlfriend’ and ‘Do me baby’ which on googling just now came across them being performed live…AWESOME !!!
Shame about the audio/videao quality but still… If there be a God in Heaven please don’t let me die without seeing him perform in NZ.
thanx
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
KILL A PAKEHA- A real piece of work this native.
Looked on all political pages and read most News feeds,nothing ,not a bloody comment even condeming this absolute Bullshit.
Vote:The family must be distraught.
Know this Roma, you need to be hung from the highest tree and any person who stands with this arshole should get the same treatment,because he dosent give a shit about anything but HIS RIGHT TO LEAD A NORMAL LIFE.
Poor kid and this piss weak outfit lets his killer out,Im livid about this.
December 28th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
Another general warning on the new light bulbs the Gweens want to make compulsory. You’re aware of course if they break you have to evacuate the room for 15-20 minutes due to the mercury vapour and if you cut yourself on one of the fragments you could get mercury poisoning and you shouldn’t vacuum the fragments as that spreads it to other parts of the house simply pick it all up and wrap it in newspaper and they emit really bad electromagnetic energy and when I say really bad I mean it damages your health but never mind, it’s all about the enviwonment, isn’t it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a planet vandal who should probably be imprisoned in a re-education camp until they learn how to wespect humans and human wights and the pwanet, like the Gweens do.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078885/Fire-hazard-fears-compact-fluorescent-lamps.html#ixzz1hjv2JpZQ
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
reid
The hapu is the conduit to get the message through but I still query whether it is able to reach those who need reached most. The abusers are generally urban dwellers, of part Maori descent who by choice or circumstance have lost touch with those who could provide stability. They have created another grouping which is neither orientated to traditional Maori nor Pakeha society & is too new to have its own culture or roots.
I agree that whatever action is decided on has to have a practical focus & be prevented from becoming another soakhole for scarce funds. ie less yap, more action. If bureaucracy could fix anything NZ would already be paradise on Earth.
The ghetto culture in the USA is similarly disfunctional & shares the demographic of being young, ethnic, poorly educated & alienated. If Maori self determination in matters of welfare & justice would work it is infinitely better than South Auckland becoming another Detroit.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
Quite a good analysis of the MSM dumbing down in the US – sounds familiar here as well
Vote:
December 28th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
If bureaucracy could fix anything NZ would already be paradise on Earth.
According to the lefties it’s not enough bureaucracy which is preventing said paradise and for evidence they are right they no doubt think that when Hulun expanded the bureaucracy 2000-2008 everything went marvelously so the theory is correct, they no doubt think.
If Maori self determination in matters of welfare & justice would work it is infinitely better than South Auckland becoming another Detroit.
Yeah but how do you get around the equal treatment under law problem? Also, the Maori idea of welfare is to hold expensive consultations and discussions all over the place and as a taxpayer I simply refuse to give them anymore per head than a non-Maori welfare recipient of whatever category gets. So if Maori want to conduct their own welfare operations in the “Maori way” then by definition their recipients are going to get what’s left over after deducting all the travel, salary and koha expenses for said consultation so I don’t think their recipients are going to enjoy that very much.
I’m afraid while I have a great deal of affection and respect for our Maori brothers and sisters I have to say they seem to be at times extraordinarily precious in terms of certain approaches which they insist the country pays for. For example the way they have all these Maori health workers who go out to the poor Maori to educate them about completely basic shit that everyone else simply takes for granted. Why for example are we required to fund a Maori health worker to visit poor Maori families in a taxpayer funded vehicle so the family can be told basic things like, if you don’t brush your teeth everyday they’ll rot, when all the other non-Maori poor families don’t get this special treatment but are expected to use their own resources to upskill themselves in such basic matters the same way everyone else does. It’s this precious hand-holding approach that I object to on the grounds that I believe it’s better for the person to be taught how to fish in other words if the poor family is instead given instructions on how to get in touch with the right people for advice and the reasons why that would be a good idea, so it becomes their responsibility, not someone elses. There isn’t enough of that in the Maori approach with respect to using taxpayer resources and the reason IMO for this attitude is they feel entitled because they’re victims of the horrid colonials. Even today. I personally think if Maori “victims” were more often given the message from other Maori to get over it, then problems like the one we’re discussing today would gradually disappear off the radar. It’s a question of expectations and if Maori amongst themselves expected themselves, as warriors do, to succeed in whatever they wanted to do, and as warriors, held themselves and amongst themselves to account for doing that and correcting brothers and sisters who were straying, they could, as a race, outdo Europeans in any field they entered. This is because possessing such attitudes and conducting such practices is not a race thing it’s a life thing and no matter what race you are, this is the only way to succeed in anything. OTOH by doing what they presently do they simply perpetuate indeed exacerbate the sense of victimhood so it not only doesn’t improve it simply gets worse as more and more people get the deeper and deeper message that I am entitled because I am a victim of [fill in blank]…
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 4:19 pm
No doubt the fact that the ”santa” who shot himself and his family in the USA was yet another mad muslim mad at his daughter for dating a non muslim , will not see the light of day here. How joyful the darkness.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
You want a quick fix reid ?
Sorry, but in as much as it took generations to become welfare dependent and culturally colonised it’s also gonna take generations to emancipate ourselves from the mental slavery and religious dogma used to entrap us.
I’m working towards 2 generations from now and by integrating a wider Pasifikan perspective based in worthy traditional models and values and by taking what’s best about transplanted Eurocentric culture and ditching the rest.
The point being, none but ourselves can free our mind. You can’t do it for us. Like it or not, I and others like me are the future you better get used to.
The best you can do in the meantime is not fuck me off too much that i hold a grudge when the power balance shifts
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Citigroup, JP Morgan, Bank of America and Wells Fargo are all technically insolvent, right now.
http://dailybail.com/home/adam-levitin-tells-congress-citigroup-bank-of-america-jpmorg.html
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
reid
If self determination is introduced then the concept of equality in the eyes of the law goes out the window. Point is I can’t see the justice system being completely hived off……in practise youth, family & district court matters would run separately but the higher courts would retain the status quo.
As to the economics……setting the system up would cost a fortune & it’s anyone’s guess how expensive it would be to run the system. If the same facilities were shared it would help but regrettably one Pakeha system Maori adapted to with undue haste was that of empire building by those in authority.
It would be hard to debate the contents of your last paragraph. When I think of the problem Maori face I’m often forced to recall of the pigheadedness of my maternal grandfather. His trade in “the Old Country” was that of a wire puller. When he & his wife emigrated to NZ in 1919 he found that there was no call for wire pullers locally so he sat on his ever increasing arse & moaned for the next forty years oblivious to the problems he caused to those around him. So too with some Maori who, finding little call for their preferred vocation of “warrior”, form criminal gangs & spend the rest of their worthless existences in & out of gaol making the lives of their families & communities sheer hell.
The reason humans are so successful as a species is their ability to adapt……I fear that not all individuals or groups adapt as quickly as others.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
Even more alarming than the kill an pakeha guy , is the fact that Raymond Ratima, who killed seven family members is being prepared for release.. He is currently in a minimum security facility..The staff are very concerned. Naturally enough , his family do not want him to be released..
Vote:Why should anyone who took the lives of seven people ever be allowed out??
December 28th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
none but ourselves can free our mind. You can’t do it for us. Like it or not, I and others like me are the future you better get used to.
pw most people don’t even know that thoughts are things and what drives everything is our thoughts. Thoughts begat actions and actions begat outcomes which becomes our lives.
The reason why people kill children in their care is because for years they have thought the wrong thoughts. They have thought uncaring angry negative thoughts and not thought much if ever about love and peace and kindness and giving.
Teaching people who are poor or who think thoughts like our child killer is simply a matter of teaching them how to think. It’s a question of breaking a lifetime of habit. Now this is not a simple task of course it’s not but with our modern understanding of psychology and education, designing programs to achieve this for any given category be they child killer or druggie or alky or lazy or dumb but well meaning or whatever, is a very doable thing.
That’s how you do it and when you implement it as I’ve said previously you don’t give them a choice since most won’t want it so you have to make them do it. As I’ve also said previously you must do it non-judgmentally as well.
pw if you understand how humans tick you will know this would in fact work. It would have to be very well architected to work and very well managed and done cross party for it would take at least a generation for this to be take hold across the board and for that reason alone it will never be done since lefties won’t tolerate their base being eroded so they would pretend such a program is victimisation notwithstanding aforesaid non-judgemental approach but that’s lefties for you. Disgusting creatures aren’t they.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
Mind you , Caruthers from the parole board spends most of his time swanning around at overseas conferences.. He thinks he and his board are above any kind of scrutiny. Who here has any confidence that Raymond Ratima will not reoffend?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 4:46 pm
Regurgitated Chocolate with Fleas in his Underwear
…”The best you can do in the meantime is not fuck me off too much that i hold a grudge when the power balance shifts”……
By the time you no hopers “free your minds” & “emancipate yourselves from mental slavery” we’ll have discovered another planet & buggered off. You’ll have to beg us to come back & sort out the place after you’ve hangied the last of the tribe next door anyway.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 4:47 pm
Teaching people who are poor or who think thoughts like our child killer is simply a matter of teaching them how to think.
You mean how to think like a conservative right wing fundamentally christian nutjob ?
Yeah thanks but no thanks. I’m gonna teach kids how to think and be Pasifikan just like i’m teaching you.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 5:00 pm
By the time you no hopers “free your minds” & “emancipate yourselves from mental slavery” we’ll have discovered another planet & buggered off. You’ll have to beg us to come back & sort out the place after you’ve hangied the last of the tribe next door anyway.
heh…more like you’ll have eaten yourselves out of house, home and family from being too chickenshit and just plain batshit crazy to come out and face reality beyond the walls and gates you’ll have built around your communities to protect your precious culture and keep your race pure.
And in that respect I’m talking only of you inbred eurocentrists cos if anyone, it’ll be Asians who’ll discover a means and place to bugger off to first.
Can’t see that i’ll be begging you guys for anything let alone to come back if you decide to fuck off.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
…in practise youth, family & district court matters would run separately but the higher courts would retain the status quo.
That’s why I don’t like it nasska. There’s a lot of nasty DC stuff in the assault area that I don’t want marae justice to be available for. Also fraud and similar, has no place on the marae.
But youth and some family but presumably not parent-child custodial determinations or would you have marae for those?
As to the economics……setting the system up would cost a fortune & it’s anyone’s guess how expensive it would be to run the system. If the same facilities were shared it would help but regrettably one Pakeha system Maori adapted to with undue haste was that of empire building by those in authority.
Exactly and what is the cost benefit?
Honestly I think we are looking at the wrong causal factor here. Maori justify the call for their own justice system by pointing to the imprisonment rate of Maori and claiming it’s therefore the fault of the justice system and not the fault of their own people who become subject to it. Now I don’t wholeheartedly concur with this conclusion and the reason is the system currently gives young offenders heaps of chances before prison finally ensues and frankly you have to be by definition a bit of a habitual bad bugger for some time in the first place before you even come near it.
Most of my Maori friends over the years have alluded more than once to the fact that many times they’ve been stopped when they’re in a flash car or whatever. I accept cop racism exists. This doesn’t mean it’s systemic in the justice system and it also doesn’t mean it’s widespread in the cops either. But if you were arguing the case for a separate system to me this is the only possible causal factor in the higher imprisonment rates, there are no other visible possible causal factors other than the individual’s own behaviours.
I recognise of course the fact that Maori would be exceptionally good at designing punishments which would work much more effectively for them than our current one-size-fits-all prison approach. If we could incorporate that into the sentencing regime when sentencing a Maori offender possibly through use of a Komatua panel who knew the defendant and who advised the sentencing judge. That would be a good thing.
But replicating all the evidential processes, cross-examination rules, et al, how would that be even possible on your average marae courtroom?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
Pollywog says:- “Growing up, I was the biggest Prince fan, still am i suppose.”
Prince was one of the few musical highlights of the 80′s. The 80′s even turned good 70′s bands into mush.
The whole decade started off badly with the death of John Lennon.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
The people of Turangi are ashamed by what happened there..but why would any parents leave such young children unattended at home or in a strange country ? Weird to me..I traveled in Asia with my very pretty son when he was young , I watched him like hawk. I would never have left him on his own , in a hotel room , with the hotel babysitters etc..These parents like the McCanns seem very ignorant..Paedophiles are everywhere..they like nothing better than a little blond child. Twenty years ago the Wgtn police would warn parents at the start of summer that there were 200 known paedos in the area..the worst areas were swimming pools and shopping malls.
Vote:How can people travel the world and be ignorant about paedophilia?
December 28th, 2011 at 5:07 pm
Yeah thanks but no thanks. I’m gonna teach kids how to think and be Pasifikan just like i’m teaching you.
pw you sound like you’re some sort of angry gay feminist university
lecturertutor so I’m picking you’re probably a Fafafine.Am I right?
In which case please don’t teach the kids anything in fact don’t even go near them lest their pure minds become befouled with your fetid corrupt evil not because you’re a Fafafine of course for that would be fafafinist but just because you’re you.
joanna agree re: Ratina – do you know if preventive detention was available when he did it?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
Am I right?
sadly never.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
So are you an angry gay feminist university tutor then pw or was I wrong there as well?
If so, how come you sound like one of those, all the time?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Regardless of the truth, people see and hear only what they wish…
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
A Tint of Rust with a Posture
…”Can’t see that i’ll be begging you guys for anything let alone to come back if you decide to fuck off.”……
What makes you think that “Pasifikan” people could unite to the extent that they could run a country. I made the point in my 2.16pm that there never was a Maori nation. Maoridom is fractured along the lines of hapu & iwi & the divisions are deep. Even Islanders don’t always assimilate easily with Maori & then there’s the intermarriage of the past couple of hundred years.
It’ll take a bit longer than a couple of generations before you could all sit down & agree on how to open the keg at the after match function.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 5:34 pm
Regardless of the truth, people see and hear only what they wish…
Yes I think I was a bit harsh in my previous several posts pw. My apologies.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 5:42 pm
Fukushima update:
If you believe it, the fuel is cold – 100 degrees. Now how can that possibly be? The govt has consistently underplayed this unfolding disaster. The entire pacific fish stocks could become poisonous forever. That’s if the fuel melts into the water table which is just 5 metres underground due to being seaside and when that happens a steam explosions results and fuel is scattered in all directions.
They’re building a replacement city for Tokyo, right now.
http://enenews.com/top-japan-official-very-strong-possibility-nuclear-fuel-containment-vessel-reactors-video
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
reid
1) …”Exactly and what is the cost benefit?”…..
It wouldn’t take much of a reduction in reoffending to produce real savings. All crime has a cost to society.
2) Honest Maori citizens get caught up in police profiling. I don’t doubt that it pisses them off untold but it is not hard to understand why the cops act this way.
3) The biggest risk I see with a system of Maori justice is the risk of corruption. Not at the level of a brown paper bag buying a not guilty verdict, rather organised Maori crime bosses using standover tactics to get what they want. For example the taking of Kai Moana for customary use involves elders issuing permits…locally a few of the poor old buggers have been threatened & forced to issue these permits to local arseholes. If marae justice went the same way what we call civilisation is finished.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
What makes you think that “Pasifikan” people could unite to the extent that they could run a country.
…because back in the day we ran empires.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tui_Manu%27a
and once Maori truly realise who they are and where they fit in the general scheme of things as it relates to Pasifika they’ll stop being so stand offish and we will assume our rightful position in this corner of the world.
The journey i’m undertaking will have a ripple effect you can’t even imagine.
http://www.pacificvoyagers.org/about-project/goal/
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
joana at 4:19 pm
You know the media is not supposed to talk about this.
A real effort is made to suppress these stories.
http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/moversshakers/will-twitter-investor-saudi-prince-alwaleed-become-the-murdoch-of-new-media/1316.article
Saudi Petro dollars talk.
Investment, trade……….
Fort Hood was “an unfortunate incident of workplace violence.”
The Times Square car bomber had ‘mortgage problems’.
The terrorist who tried to bring down a domestic US flight was called an ‘Unruly Passenger’
Don’t want to scare anybody now do we?
And as Pete George keeps on telling, it will never happen in New Zealand.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10701867
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4067427/Woman-jailed-for-hijack-attempt
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4366743/Sharia-decision-lets-baby-boy-into-NZ
Of course it won’t Pete.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 6:08 pm
Washed Out Liver with a Niggly Nature
The title/concept of Tui Manu’a seems to be as much a spiritual role as opposed to a political dynasty. Although he may have held influence I would guess that distances & lousy canoe timetables would have precluded the office holder from interfering much in things tribal.
It could be a mistake to hold ones breath waiting for a Pasifikan messiah.
I’ll be following your trip with interest……although you hold some strange ideas I respect the mana of anyone prepared to put their personal safety on the line to follow a dream. Let us know when you leave & hopefully you can keep us updated with the expedition’s progress.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 6:13 pm
You have to be amused at TV1 news 28-12-2011
Vote:Ethnic bro women bonker bashed to death in Queensland, (no worries) ie idc*
Maori boy racer killed in BOP, killing young bro,with him no worries,ie idc*
its good to get maori crime out of the way early at the beginning of the news, so we can worry about the more important worries
*i dont care
December 28th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
The title/concept of Tui Manu’a seems to be as much a spiritual role as opposed to a political dynasty.
Yeah…Some Samoans are still pissed off the Manu’ans didn’t intercede with the Tongan occupation wayyyyy back in the day.
The thing with messiahs is, like Christ, they’re metaphors for a consciousness that takes time to achieve critical mass, but when they do…
and cheers for the best wishes. Leaving in a little over a fortnight. Soooo looking forward to doing the reverse migration from the Americas to Samoa, stopping off at Cocos island, Galapagos, Marquesas and Tahiti, possibly Cook islands as well.
Naturally i’ll be getting tattoos of the journey, hopefully from each place visited and with each place visited, the Pasifikan bond grows stronger
Imagine what the 2 crew of Maori on their waka are going to preach and teach the next generations in future years. Pretty sure it won’t be land based tangata whenua crap with whakapapa back to a canoe from a displaced persons perspective who has no connection to the sea.
…and we wonder where they went wrong ?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 6:48 pm
Seems that a 16 year old has just been arrested for the despicable attack in Turangi.
If proven….
BANG!
Justice done.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
It wouldn’t take much of a reduction in reoffending to produce real savings. All crime has a cost to society.
nasska can you please draw me a broad picture of how marae justice might work? For example would it try the case: i.e. present evidence and determine guilt or innocence or would the normal courts be used for that then sentencing turned over to the marae? Also the broad categories of what is dealt with there vs DC and also if they do try cases how those cases might be allocated?
Real broad brush, it’s Christmas after all
Soooo looking forward to doing the reverse migration from the Americas to Samoa, stopping off at Cocos island, Galapagos, Marquesas and Tahiti, possibly Cook islands as well.
Naturally i’ll be getting tattoos of the journey, hopefully from each place visited and with each place visited, the Pasifikan bond grows stronger
pw can you expand on history behind said pilgrimage?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
Joana must be disappointed her usual Muslim-bashing post didn’t draw more comment, but most who would normally jump in to support her are busier feeding their needs closer to home today.
However, the NZ Herald, continuing its Xmas tradition of allowing all sorts of fringe swillers to have their say over the holiday season, posts this:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10775549
Yes, Abraham Rabinovich, from Jerusalem, no less, pontificating on the Arab Spring. He lost me from the very first paragraph where he reinvents history to posit that the colonial powers left the Middle East to its own devices after WWII.
In fact, the Arab Spring is yet another phase in their struggle to throw off colonial occupation, which need not be by direct imposition of military occupation when we have proxies to do that for us.
And that’s just covering one paragraph!
But wait, there’s more! Then he approvingly quotes the brilliantly creative, but completely irrational, “Spengler” as an authoritative source. Yet another who invents history convenient to his thesis – mainly that Islam and Secularists are all bad and doomed, or some such. Oh, and Global Warmists, as well, just to cover the field.
Oh dear, I suppose the next few days will see Chris de Freitas popping up with his usual garbage, or, even, better, Lord (but not House of Lords) Monckton – another fine example of evil masquerading as the civilized white man with a burden to bear!
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 6:55 pm
@ plebe
Vote:You have to be amused at TV1 news 28-12-2011
Why do people watch that shit news? Get real
December 28th, 2011 at 6:56 pm
Seems that a 16 year old has just been arrested for the despicable attack in Turangi.
If proven….
BANG!
Justice done.
Vote:Don’t worry, Boris the breeze is onto it
December 28th, 2011 at 7:04 pm
“…allowing all sorts of fringe swillers to have their say ..”
Yup… the arch propagandist for the Hamas terrorists returns to KB. And bleats about selective quotes and someone reinventing history.
Oh the irony!
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
Maori need Pasifika for what ? hardly your average educational standard, and no we do not believe the majority of us that we should fall to our knees when some deity is mentioned.
Vote:Is it time that the only Islanders allowed to immigrate to NZ had skills we need ? you know just like Europeans, or are Islanders owed ? if so why are they owed ?
December 28th, 2011 at 7:06 pm
Yes a 16 year old has been arrested…..
Ross are you there Ross? is there still more to this than meets the eye Ross?
Is there the childs family involvment as you alluded to the other day??
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
Seems that a 16 year old has just been arrested for the despicable attack in Turangi.
This is a tragic development Elaycee.
Pathos personified.
Nigel Latte would have extremely useful insights into this since his background was dealing with adolescent child sex abusers before he became famous. I hope he does a detailed discourse in due course.
Let’s also hope and pray a positive change in policy comes out of all this once its over. This is a never again moment for NZ, I’m picking. My intuition is this has quietly outraged more people than any other child offence has done. More than Mia Glassie. Say what you like, that’s my intuition. Therefore in my mind a policy change will come through public demand the only question is will it be an idiotic authoritarian knee-jerk policy change, a rational balanced policy change or a watered down weak limp wristed policy change because the offender was a victim of [fill in the blank...]?
I suggest i-Predict runs a stock on those outcomes, that would be an excellent market.
Possible problem for justice-seen-to-be-done too, since he’s under 18 therefore subject only to youth sentencing laws. (Any lawyers out there would appreciate info re: implications of that.)
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
Well said grumpyoldhori, Pasifikans indeed.
A new term invented by pollywog aka Black With A Vengance.
Maori can and will do just fine and dandy as a people in our own right thanks very much.
Water to go under the bridge yet…but pass it will.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
A 16 year old youth can be seen at Court in Taupo at 2pm tomorrow, or will he get name suppression and be taken away with his hoodie over his head?
Vote:Where are you Sharples, Turia, Harawira, Bradford?
December 28th, 2011 at 7:18 pm
Maori need Pasifika for what ?
Grumpy but isn’t it true that Maori actually as a matter of fact based on my own experience really actually truly do look down on Pacific Islanders?
I hear you guys all the time refer to them as dumb coconuts, for example. Funny how Joris doesn’t think that’s a problem but I guess he knows what he’s doing.
Correct me if I’m wrong grumpy but that’s what really happens in real life, isn’t it?
Steve apologies above for mistaking you for Elaycee.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 7:19 pm
Yes, reid, its truly appalling that a 5 year old has been subjected to such an attack. Young kids should be loved / nurtured and be able to grow up without having to worry about nightmares of this nature.
But what policy changes do you believe would make a difference?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 7:28 pm
In fact, the Arab Spring is yet another phase in their struggle to throw off colonial occupation, which need not be by direct imposition of military occupation when we have proxies to do that for us.
Luc the “Arab Spring” my friend is Zbigniew Brzezinski’s export from the East European colour revolutions. You know of course Brzezinski is a senior behind scenes (i.e. not discussed by the MSM) player in Obama’s administration, same as all those ex-Wall Street “advisors?”
The latest revolution BTW is the one in Russia, dubbed the White Revolution.
I doubt Putin is amused in fact he’s already signaled to the US he knows about it therefore the US continues at its own peril.
But that Luc is how it plays out on the real world stage.
If you choose to look at geopolitics through a human-rights refugee-camp lens you will never get the bigger picture and will never understand what’s really happening.
OTY, my friend.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 7:28 pm
@ reid
Vote:I like the ‘dumb coconuts’ Many are my friends.
It is the Maori that piss me off. I seem to owe something to Maori, but I was born here.
Tax this, Tax that. When do whities get the Maori Tax? opps, sorry, we already pay that.
Who is next inline for a neverending koha payout?
December 28th, 2011 at 7:28 pm
Do we know the ethnicity of this 16 year old piece of shit yet?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
NZ Herald have pulled their online post about ‘NZ ashamed about camp attack’
Vote:Why would NZ Herald do this?
December 28th, 2011 at 7:57 pm
This is a horrible crime.
But I feel no shame, ,I don’t expect Australia to be ashamed because some Nzer got murdered there last week.
Just bullshit emotion from the herald, its a rag, everyone here agrees on that so why even mention it.
And if we knew the boys name, seriously what would anyone of us do?, kill him?kill his family ? I think not, he’ll be a monster for sure , a absolute nothing as well but all this talk of bullets and “I’ll do this” is tiresome, because none of us will kill him.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
Ah, luc ‘Hamas’ Hansen is back.
The archetypal self-hating white left wing agitator.
You lost me when you mentioned the “Arab Spring”.
Vote:I thought you would be a happy chappy Luc? All over the Middle East the Islamists are winning the elections and are starting to deal to the ‘secularists’, the few left over Christians and those uppity women.
The Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafists will win the elections in Egypt and they have already held talks with your favourite group, Hamas. The fact that they will run out of money won’t be a problem, they can always blame the evil Zionists and start a little war to deflect the attention.
Who know they might be victorious, win this one and finally drive those evil Jews into the sea?
Wouldn’t that make you happy?
December 28th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
Is it time that the only Islanders allowed to immigrate to NZ had skills we need ? you know just like Europeans, or are Islanders owed ? if so why are they owed ?
Way to prove my point old fulla.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:02 pm
But what policy changes do you believe would make a difference?
Lets wait and see what this youth’s background was.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:04 pm
reid (9,519) Says:
December 28th, 2011 at 7:07 pm …since he’s under 18 therefore subject only to youth sentencing …………..it
its under 17 Reid and when he’s convicted the Youth Court can send him up the chain for sentencing, happens all the time
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:05 pm
In case you were wondering how the USA came to be in so much financial trouble, here is an explanation given by a Agricultural University professor in terms his students could understand:
Capitalism:
You have two cows.
You sell one and buy a bull.
Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows.
You sell them and retire on the income.
Crony Capitalism:
You have two cows.
You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax exemption for five cows. The milk rights of the six cows are transferred via an intermediary to a Cayman Island company secretly owned by your CFO who sells the rights to all seven cows back to your listed company.
The annual report says the company owns eight cows when in fact there are seven listed, with an option on six more.
Now do you see why a rich first world country is heading down the shitter?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:06 pm
Thanks Paul.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:21 pm
@nasska
In Crony Capitalism you forgot the part where the ‘company receives government subsidies. The government then ‘regulates’ the industry, taxes the competition and receives election donations from the grateful company.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:28 pm
Other_Andy (978) Says:
December 28th, 2011 at 8:21 pm
@nasska
In Crony Capitalism you forgot the part where the ‘company receives government subsidies. The government then ‘regulates’ the industry, taxes the competition and receive election donations from the grateful company.
abit like maori trusts then?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:28 pm
reid
Re your 6.50pm. If Marae or Maori justice sees the light of day I think it would be phased in over a period. Maybe sentencing only initially but there’s a big enough pool of Maori lawyers to pick judges from. It could involve a Judicial panel of tribal leaders & elders but we’d be heading into dangerous waters without a judge as head panelist. As I noted before I could be made comfortable with the concept but for practical & cost reasons I think it should exclude the High, Supreme & Appeal Courts. I see no reason why existing court facilities couldn’t be used by both systems.
Police to lay the same charges as before but I haven’t a clue on how prosecution or defense would work.
What I can’t see working is pure marae justice as many defendants would be ignorant of their iwi/hapu. There has been too much urbanisation which has distanced Maori from their largely rural tribal roots for the system to be other than a pan Maori one. In fact I can’t see how many people who would qualify for Maori justice could prove that they were Maori.
So many questions & so few answers. Implemented right it could work but there is potential for its introduction to be the greatest cockup of the century.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:31 pm
Other_Andy
Guilty as charged.
Griff
Could be.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
As a result of this work Police became interested in a 16-year-old youth from Turangi and negotiated (????????WTF) his attendance at Turangi Police Station this afternoon. He has subsequently been charged with sexual violation, aggravated wounding and burglary.
Sounds like ANOTHER damn maori to me.opps the first race sorry
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:42 pm
Reid
My point there was that the colonial occupation of the Middle East never ceased, it simple morphed into another form, well encapsulated by the word “quisling.”
If you think the Obama administration is behind the uprisings, well, good for you. I’m sure you also think that Neil Armstrong only steeped on the moon in a Hollywood backlot, right, my friend?
Other_Andy, I never left. I always keep a watching brief, but I’m just too busy with work and the little one to bother righting the many wrongs disseminated from this blog.
But as far as the rest of your post is concerned, yes, I’m happy there is progress towards freedom in the Arab world, just as I’m unhappy that we Westerners are foregoing ours as fast as species are going extinct because of us. And I’m also unhappy that, behind the scenes, we are still working to subvert the Arab Spring.
I guess that’s the geopolitics Reid is expert in.
And your Bibi-inspired scenario of Jews running into the sea is pure fantasy. One argument of Rabinovich was an equivalence implied between Israel and Palestinians. There is only one partner in that conflict who can create peace, and it is not the brutally oppressed Palestinians.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:44 pm
…I haven’t a clue on how prosecution or defense would work.
nasska I analyse operational efficiency in the commercial world for a living and I don’t see it happening here in any positive way under any possible configuration compared to the current scheme.
Do you think a middle ground to progress this would be negotiating a pilot scheme for say, Maori Youth Crime. Give that a go and see what happens? Youth are the easiest to change and also one would expect useful lessons from there which could then be applied to older offenders.
If you think the Obama administration is behind the uprisings, well, good for you. I’m sure you also think that Neil Armstrong only steeped on the moon in a Hollywood backlot, right, my friend?
Not really Luc that’s insultingly superficial actually but nothing less than what I’ve come to expect. Shame we can’t have a serious discussion sometime. Ah well.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 8:48 pm
@plebe
Vote:Who cares what ‘ethnicity’ he is?
Siuaki Lisiate, Graeme Burton, Raymond Ratima, Jiayi Li…….human scum comes in all colours.
December 28th, 2011 at 8:51 pm
.human scum comes in all colours…………….
OA
Two thumbs up.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 9:11 pm
Bevan Smith from Owaka died on Christmas day, aged 60.
Bevan was the father of Kylie who was raped and murdered by Paul David Bailey in 1991. Bailey was on bail for another attempted rape at the time. He was subsequently convicted of raping another young girl in Central in 1989 – 1990.
Every year Bevan and his family would turn up to the parole board to oppose Bailey’s release — successfully, thankfully. His demise is attributed, in part, to the stress of these appearances and the death of his daughter. He had a minor victory in that Bailey has been denied the right to annual applications.
Why does a supposedly civilised society make the victims of crime go through this crap?
http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/south-otago/192476/he-took-it-really-hard-he-struggled-cope
Oh, not that it matters a damn – Bailey is caucasian
http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/sxdb/baileypaul.htm
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 9:11 pm
reid
Trialing Maori youth crime would be a logical way to go. I still can’t get my head around WHO the clientelle of these Courts will be. A person is allowed to identify as of Maori descent with as little as 1/32 Maori DNA.
Will it be a case of being Maori one week & Pakeha the next depending on who gives the softest sentence for what crime?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
16 years old?? WTF???
put it to sleep. It cant be helped.
who gives a fuck what colour/race it is.
I wouldnt assume hes a maori. Lots of white rapists out there. hell, arent the majority of serial killers white dudes?
in other news, merry christmas scumbags. dimes had a great week. i shot my first POV porno this week. I gotta say it came out great! ill let you all know when i upload it to redtube
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 9:32 pm
I’m happy there is progress towards freedom in the Arab world
They will never be free. Until they free themselves from their self-imposed ideology that keeps them in submission and enslaved.
Vote:Their concept of ‘freedom’ and ‘peace’ has very little in common with ours.
And….
Most Middle Eastern countries have been colonised for almost 1400 years now but not by those evil Europeans and Americans.
Ask the Amazigh, Kurds, Turkmen, Copts, Armenians, Chaldeans, Assyrians and Zaghawa.
That is, those who have survived the mass murders, cultural genocide and forced assimilation.
December 28th, 2011 at 9:35 pm
Will it be a case of being Maori one week & Pakeha the next depending on who gives the softest sentence for what crime?
That is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma, nasska.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 9:47 pm
I agree with dime. Race and skin colour are irrelevant facts.
Vote:This animal deserves no life. Shoot the bastard!
December 28th, 2011 at 9:51 pm
He’s 16 Manolo.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 9:54 pm
dime and manolo, it’s sad to see you guys think this guy is guilty already. If he is, go ahead, but lets say innocent until proven guilty. One of the best things about this country… we are lucky to live in a free country, I am so glad. And don’t start the abuse… just makes you even more sadder.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 10:10 pm
jonno – of course if hes guilty. goes without saying.
and whos starting abuse? apart from you suggesting we are “sad” lol
reid – yea hes 16. IF HE IS GUILTY (happy?) then he will be out mid-20s and will go on to ruin someone elses life. we dont rehabilitate in this country and even if we did, this guy is wrong in the head and cant be helped. bullet to the back of the head. invoice the family for costs
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
Dime, didn’t abuse you. I said it’s sad you found him guilty already
It would be worse if this guy wasn’t guilty and the scumbag who is guilty is still out there. The police need to find the person and have been know in the past to make mistakes. Lets hope they have found the person this time and he gets whats coming to him. Being 16 and going to jail, I am sure he wont survive a day.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
thats a myth. there arent many prisoner deaths in NZ.
my buddy did 11 years. not one fight. zero grief. he saw sme violence but nothing like youd think
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 10:24 pm
I am not talking death, but I bet a 16 year old will be shit scared and wont have many friends….
How old was your friend when he went in?
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 10:28 pm
And if he is guilty, he will be a young pedo, I doubt his fellow inmates will like him.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 10:37 pm
he was 19. out by 30. apparently he served “life”. disgraceful
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 11:30 pm
Andy
Have you ever looked at the history of Europe?
I thought not.
But let me tell you of the time Mahatma Ghandi stepped onto US soil and was immediately asked what he thought of western civilisation.
He replied, “I think that would be a good idea.”
I think his reply is still relevant today.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 11:47 pm
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/12/israel_some_basic_facts.html
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/12/origins_of_the_palestinian_identity_1.html
nuff said.
Vote:December 28th, 2011 at 11:50 pm
americanthinker
with a few exceptions, is an oxymoron.
That site is pure evil.
Fox News on steroids!
Vote:December 29th, 2011 at 12:20 am
@LH
Have you ever looked at the history of Europe?
Your ‘tu quoque’ reply seems to come up whenever you get stuck.
I thought not.
As part of my degree I studied European history.
I think his reply is still relevant today.
Vote:Now I know you see ‘Western’ civilisation and democracy as pure evil, could you enlighten me what your pinnacle of civilisation is. Either your ideal ideology or country will do.
December 29th, 2011 at 12:40 am
Sorry LUC.
Vote:That comment says all it needs about you, your attitude and reliability of info.
thank you.
I’ll RIP you again as you’ve not changed.
December 29th, 2011 at 6:29 am
Luc, if you despise the West so much why don’t you move to some enlightened Eastern nation, such as Pakistan?
Vote:It would be lovely to receive your unbiased reports from such cultured country.
December 29th, 2011 at 8:59 am
Other Andy…thanks for your great posts.
Vote:Luc You are an ignorant fool living in some kind of permanent delusion.
December 29th, 2011 at 11:23 am
The attack on the 5 year old reminded me of a similarly repugnant murder in 2007: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10425413 of school teacher Lois Dear in Tokoroa, and had me perplexed as to the motives behind the offenders actions being somewhat spontaneous and brutal. I asked myself the question as to why do offenders do these heinous crimes and get the usual litany of excuses of abuse , broken home etc.
Vote:However I could not under any circumstance empathise with the offender and like many on this page would prefer an immediate permanent solution.
Also in the instance of the mass murderer Ratima, I can see no valid reason why this man should be released, his crime was extreme therefore his incarceration should be likewise, permanent.