General Debate 22 January 2012

January 22nd, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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121 Responses to “General Debate 22 January 2012”

  1. Yvette (2,736 comments) says:

    Turangi rape

    13|01|2012 –

    Before any formal admission of guilt can be entered, the teen must attend a family group conference, which is scheduled to take place this weekend.
    His youth advocate and lawyer Katherine Ewen said the conference was designed to “give the power back to the family”, so the court had a better picture of the situation the young person was in.

    And the boy’s mother yesterday told the Times she planned to speak to police about contacting the family of the injured girl directly to pass on her sympathies.

    – http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6250357/Mother-of-Turangi-attack-accused-hounded

    Today –

    “The family and the boy are connected to a gang,” one said. “The family is gang-associated. It’s not just the father.”
    Another source said: “The family are well-recognised as being what they are … rotten apples. Where are you heading in society when you have this underbelly?”

    Munro was criticised for allowing the prayer to be read, and for telling the boy he looked smartly-dressed for the hearing.
    The message disgusted his victim’s family, who said in a statement: “We find it difficult to believe that this boy who did this to our daughter three weeks ago can write beautiful prayers to God now.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6295347/Child-rapists-gang-link

    Is it not time to get rid of all the family conference shit ?
    And also Judges should be much more careful of what they say themselves – they are supposedly so vigilant of what others in their courts may say.

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  2. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    This “family” of savages deserves no compassion and is guilty as sin for having raised such monster.

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  3. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    A very good article by Mark Steyn: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/288778/sinking-west-mark-steyn

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  4. David Garrett (6,661 comments) says:

    These are the same organizations that Tariana and Pita call just another form of whanau….and former Justice Minister Simon Power thought fit to include among those attending – at taxpayers’ expense – a summit on the “Drivers of Crime” held at parliament in 2009.

    That this was done to “get patched” was no big surprise to any of us who inhabit the real world and have some actual knowledge of what gangs are about….

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  5. Scott Chris (5,947 comments) says:

    Suicide Assistant Refuses To Return To NZ From The States:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10780285

    :arrow: “Auckland police have laid a charge of assisting suicide, but they cannot extradite her because the treaty with the United States does not include that charge.”

    So 76 armed American cops aren’t going to swoop down on this woman and ship her back here. Fair enough. Lucky though, because she’s plainly dangerous. Might have used her suicide machine to induce some of the officers to kill themselves. Clearly overwhelming force would have been needed to subdue this madwoman.

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  6. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    Yep, and we now have the Organised Crime Boss and 78 of his staff ransacking a private business which has yet to commit any heinous crime other than to provide a service to millions of others instead of dealing with our own domestic thugs.
    Gangs according to police representative and union spokesman are organised crime units.
    Surley the Minister needs to kick arse and get these guys focused on what the NZ taxpayers actually pay for rather thyan run round at the behest of American Multi National record and film companies who consider their ownership rights trampled on.
    Well we own the tax money sowhy should we spent it on them
    In my experience the Yanks are no respectors of Intellectual Property rights and they get around them by being so big and by hiring so many legals that any small company simply cannot ever get their rights upheld.
    The reverse of what they are doing to DOTCOM.

    Some wonder why so many in the world despise America.

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  7. thedavincimode (6,582 comments) says:

    Scott, so you’re aware of all the facts and information that the coppers had at their disposal before the raid Scott and their reasons for going in as they did and how they balanced that decision against the pressures on prioritising police time and resources?

    Delusions of being the Highlander: CHECK

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  8. thedavincimode (6,582 comments) says:

    V2

    It isn’t a “service”. It is theft, plain and simple. They acted no differently than a receiver of stolen goods.

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  9. Keeping Stock (10,161 comments) says:

    So which gang has a history of sexual assaults, and more recently of violence towards children?

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2012/01/quelle-surprise.html

    Oh; sorry; we can’t say…

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  10. David Garrett (6,661 comments) says:

    …but the man has a point….when was the last time there was anything like that level police resources devoted to harrassment of the Mob and Black Power?

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  11. slijmbal (1,223 comments) says:

    @Yvette – I can only concur

    been to one of these youth oriented family events – complete farce and a waste of time. The youth involved already had 50+ charges to their name and received no punishment other than being made to stay at the Marae for several robberies. There was nothing supporting the victims and various officials paid for by us for the criminal. Youth worker, Maori something or other worker, Police Youth something or other and Maori lawyer from memory. They played the Maori card brilliantly. Several hours of my life I will not be getting back.

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  12. Pete George (23,165 comments) says:

    Whale posted an excerpt from a speech by Chris Christie (his post includes video) Cutting the costs:

    Let us reclaim the lives of those drug offenders who have not committed a violent crime. By investing time and money in drug treatment – in an in-house, secure facility – rather than putting them in prison. Experience has shown that treating non-violent drug offenders is two-thirds less expensive than housing them in prison.

    And more importantly – as long as they have not violently victimized society – everyone deserves a second chance, because no life is disposable.

    I am not satisfied to have this as merely a pilot project; I am calling for a transformation of the way we deal with drug abuse and incarceration in every corner of New Jersey.

    I agree in general, if we invest in druig (and alcohol) rehabilitation we could save a lot more money in the long term – and save more lives, and improve and the qualities of life of many.

    A point on “everyone deserves a second chance” – druggies commonly commit many offences over time, it would be a humungous achievement dealing with them successfully after their first offence.

    And I can see a conflict here between the rehab approach suggested by Christie (and many others) and the tendency today for increasing demands for tougher sentences.

    Public attitudes may need rehab too.

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  13. Scott Chris (5,947 comments) says:

    Check this stunt out. (45 seconds long) Literally unbelievable:

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  14. David Garrett (6,661 comments) says:

    …and perhaps FES or Graeme could enlighten us…why on earth is name suppression for the gang required when this piece of vermin has already pleaded guilty? To safeguard their “mana” ??

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  15. Yvette (2,736 comments) says:

    Now, if one had been reading the papers after the attack, it was widely reported that a certain gang was having a party in a nearby park on the night this attack took place. To suppress the gang’s name is pretty futile, but we will abide by the suppression order. But we’ll also add that this particular gang has a long history of sexual violence towards women, and more recently of violence to children.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2012/01/quelle-surprise.html

    I don’t quite understand how suppression works.
    Earlier stuff.co reports give the name of the gang present on the night concerned. It is publicly available information. Can people not now say what ‘is recorded history’. Should stuff.co be re-editing relevant items?
    I thought suppression applied to information not already in the public domain at the time of a suppression order.

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  16. Keeping Stock (10,161 comments) says:

    Yvette; you wouldn’t be alone in not understanding how suppression works. Everyone knows it was the red team, but no-one’s allowed to name them; bizarre!

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  17. Northland Wahine (655 comments) says:

    “Give the power back to the family”? What world do these people live in??

    I’m sure there are still those who do not believe that this was not patch orientated. Not only should this kid be held responsible but so should his parents and those who “sponsored” his patching.

    One day New Zealand may grow the balls to outlaw gangs. Won’t hold my breath expecting it in my life time.

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  18. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    Exactly my point David.

    dvm.
    As I understand the operation provided store fronts for others like any rental agency and sold advertsing and membership fees. Having never been there I have only managed to glean this from what is written. Its the operators of the stores that were breaking the Law.
    But this is just an attempt to shut down the landlord to kill the store owners. Much easier and ultimately destined to fail in court in a legal way so the agencies confiscate everything on the basis of some crime. It will be interesting to see if the FBI don’t get sued for billions on that basis.
    They did the same to another site a while back and tell me how its different to google and youtube and dozens of others out there.? Google and youtube will slap you if you use copyright content in an attempt to make money and that’s because they host you directly on their sites. They don’t rent you space as dotcom was.
    Dot com also had space rented (lockers) to people who were using the space to store information. That would appear to be irritreiveable at this point in time. Imagine if that was your information. Its cloud based and as I pointed out yesterday many of us now have cloud based applications of all kinds. Accounting, wages, geneology,facebook etc etc.
    Are we now at the mercy of thugs and KBG tatics of the Yanks and their mothers little helpers? Is anything we do safe from these thugs and remeber Mc Carthyism in America?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
    McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence. The term has its origins in the period in the United States known as the Second Red Scare, lasting roughly from the late 1940s to the late 1950s and characterized by heightened fears of communist influence on American institutions and espionage by Soviet agents. Originally coined to criticize the anti-communist pursuits of Republican U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin, “McCarthyism” soon took on a broader meaning, describing the excesses of similar efforts. The term is also now used more generally to describe reckless, unsubstantiated accusations, as well as demagogic attacks on the character or patriotism of political adversaries.

    Sobering to think that the FBI is back in the same territory albeit with organisations other than political ones.

    Its a no win battle for them because even if dotcom don’t get back up someone else will and they will go where the Yanks can’t. Plenty of nations can use the cash and the authourites will turn a blind eye.

    The losers will be the very people that those organisations represent. Just because the industry failed years ago tochange its business model and be customer freindly. Vested interests that are not the customers interests.
    The customer is always right.
    When in doubt remember, The CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT and if you doubt that then remeber the customer owns the money and the money will only get spent if the customer is satisfied with the service. 150 million registered users at dotcom didn’t think that previuos supplier had it right so changed to a new supplier. Dotcom. 50 million hits a day. Ranked no.5 website in the USA.
    Do you really think that those using the service are going to be forced back to the old model whereby the get ripped off daily.
    The customer is always right. 150 million of them are a huge force. If only I knew how to tap them.

    You need to think this through some more.

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  19. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    Some would just say a certan number of people are barking mad.
    Unfortunately their mothers little helpers are not much better.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/columnists/6257551/Cases-made-it-a-week-for-the-ferals

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  20. David Garrett (6,661 comments) says:

    Northland Wahine: Surprise surprise….we (you) were right….what they need of course is “more funding”…

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  21. Yvette (2,736 comments) says:

    Everyone knows it was the red team, but no-one’s allowed to name them; bizarre!

    I don’t want to belabour the point to being boring, but stuff.co has named the gang reported to be present that night. Are we not allowed to repeat what is published?
    published – that is: made public.

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  22. Scott Chris (5,947 comments) says:

    All Expenses Paid Trips To USA Accepted By Local Body Councilors

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6295067/Oil-company-to-woo-East-Coast-councillors

    :arrow: – “Local body politicians are set to be hosted on an all-expenses paid trip to North America by oil exploration officials”

    Which is perfectly legal of course. Question is, should the councillors accept these offers? Will the local constituents end up with the best oil company, or merely the one which is best at peddling influence.

    IMO, any “gift” worth over $50 should be considered bribery for public officials. Anything more breeds cronyism.

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  23. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    New Zealand will be the laughingstock of the Pacific within 10 years I predict.

    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2012/01/new-zealand-new-pitcairn-of-pacific.html

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  24. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    Yeh Scott but we all think you are childish anyway. Nothing new there.

    Crime In NZ about to get worse with returning recidivist criminals with a widser world view. No checks or balances.

    Aussies get tough on Kiwi convicts
    By Joanne Carroll and Sunday Mail
    5:30 AM Sunday Jan 22, 2012

    The crackdown reflects a wave of anti-Kiwi sentiment across the Tasman.

    Hundreds of Australian-based Kiwi criminals could soon be walking free on our streets, unhindered by normal parole restrictions, thanks to a hardline deportation drive by Australian immigration authorities .
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10780293

    That’s going to help a lot. Still as they come we can go.

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  25. Pete George (23,165 comments) says:

    The warrior gene?

    Violent sex crimes committed by active U.S. Army soldiers have almost doubled over the past five years, due in part to the trauma of war, according to an Army report released on Thursday.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/20/us-army-health-report-idUSTRE80J01C20120120

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  26. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    So more comes out.
    Paintings seized. Now we need to ask if they were stolen paintings or was this just a asset seizing issue.
    NZ police are treading on thin ground here at the behest of the FBI.
    Look for many trumped up charges.

    In a previously unpublished interview with the Herald on Sunday, Dotcom rejected copyright breaches. He said: “Mega is an online service provider. Mega provides its users with an external hard drive connected to the internet. Not with content.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10780321

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  27. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    No need to look at the US, too faraway, P.G. The warrior gene lives closer to home. Just look around.

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  28. TimG_Oz (922 comments) says:

    Monique, why within 10 years? It’s been the laughing stock of the Pacific since around 2005, if not earlier.

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  29. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    Michael Laws hits the nail on the head..again. Good one Mike .

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  30. Northland Wahine (655 comments) says:

    David G… Yeah more funding and more hui and more more more.

    Socialists may thinking their intentions are well meaning. They are wrong. The likes of this family and others like them are not social experiment to see what works and what doesn’t. If they believe this issue should be handled with kid gloves, ponder this…

    Stop lowering the bar for us Maori. We are not little brown children and stop behaving like modern day missionaries. Raise that bar… And keep raising it. It’s how success is achieved.

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  31. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    thedavincimode (2,769) Says:
    January 22nd, 2012 at 8:32 am
    V2

    It isn’t a “service”. It is theft, plain and simple. They acted no differently than a receiver of stolen goods.

    DVM
    Whats worrying about this is where is the line is to be drawn, I have a blog, hugely popular amongst my wife and I. On that blog I post covers of books I’ve read, I own all those books but whats of concern is that that cover art is copy righted and it could be construed that I am attempting to make money out of copy righted material. Now I am not the only one doing stuff like this but if the publishers got shitty , what happens then? Do they shut down blogger and take out Keeping Stock as well?

    Now thats an extreme example but valid it the context of copy right. I am really struggling with the megauploads thing because there were 100′s of thousands of legitimate users on there and its been crushed because of a special interest group. I find that worrying.

    Its like the death penalty scenario, – we might hang the odd innocent but we get it right most of the time.

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  32. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    More bullshit.

    Police forced to shoot armed man

    Not true.
    Police chose to shoot the man. They could have done what any ordinary member of the public has to. Run away to a safer place.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10780323

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  33. Pete George (23,165 comments) says:

    Yes, the police could have chosen to run away to a safer place.

    And if the man then chose to assault someone else then I suspect many bloggees, talk back callers and bar conversationalists would have chosen to lambast the police for failing to prevent it.

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  34. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    SC…

    Check this stunt out. (45 seconds long) Literally unbelievable:

    That’s simply energy conservation. They must have worked out (in some previously trialed run with other objects) the distance to the landing spot, by the calculation of the left-off velocity/speed from the height of the curve starting point relative to its trough (lowest point) and also the height of the ending point (point where the man left off). Once this speed is known then they can calculate the horizontal distance from the end of where the man will land. One thing the stunners must make sure of, is to make the sliding man frictionless as much as possible (that explains the suit he was wearing, plus the liquid or oil being poured on the surface of the curvature so that energy is almost completely conserved for their calculation to be reasonably accurate to a few centimeters.

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  35. Other_Andy (2,459 comments) says:

    @SC

    “As well as having discussions with officials from TAG and Apache, they also hoped to meet environmentalists, oil industry regulators and representatives of Canada’s indigenous peoples community.”

    Oil exploration on the East Cape is, in my opinion, a good thing for the East Cape and New Zealand as a whole.

    1. It will mean possible employment opportunities for an area that currently has a high level of unemployment.
    2. It will mean that there will be a flow on effect on businesses on the East Cape.
    3. Royalties for New Zealand.
    4. More business for Marsden Point.
    5. Less reliance on foreign oil.

    As long as it is all in the open, I can’t see anything wrong with it.
    Or isn’t an oil company allowed to present its case?

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  36. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Scott, here is the failed attempt, from the same stunt.

    2nd Attempt- FAIL

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  37. reid (16,066 comments) says:

    This Turangi case could, if we wanted as a country, provide the impetus to enact legislation designed to destroy gangs by enacting RICO-like legislation.

    While I’m happy to believe the gangs themselves would not have encouraged this particular crime as qualifying for initiation, as evidenced by the report the father has now been disassociated, the fact a boy could have got into his head that it would have indicates the mindset of not only the gangs but the wannabes.

    As the “sources close to the investigation” say, what sort of society are we heading for if we let this sort of attitude continue to propagate.

    Time IMO, in fact way past time, for a national summit between intelligence, law enforcement, Maori, Asian and Pacific Island leaders and cross-party politicians to be tasked with developing a framework designed to destroy these organisations and scatter them to the four winds.

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  38. reid (16,066 comments) says:

    One thing the stunners must make sure of, is to make the sliding man frictionless as much as possible (that explains the suit he was wearing, plus the liquid or oil being poured on the surface of the curvature so that energy is almost completely conserved for their calculation to be reasonably accurate to a few centimeters.

    FF yes they obviously had worked it out but fucked if I’d risk crashing into the side of the hill or even straight into the wooden base of that pool simply to make something to put up on U-Tube. The slightest change in angular momentum would have made him miss the pool and you can see the slide was laid on an uneven surface thus increasing chances of such occurring. Utter madness.

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  39. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    So Pete, when did a general duties constable carry a gun as of right? Is it probale he accessed the gun fron the car safe?
    Acording to the reports the man was drunk but unarmed with any weapon of mass destruction.
    We are becoming like Sth Africa where guns are the normal.
    Sure these things are tough to deal with BUT we ,the taxpayer spend a lot of money training these guys to do just that with minimal harm. Are we changing that?
    Will the police dept. pick up the hospital tab or will it be you n me?

    Once upon a time when most of the p[opulation were average 5 ft 6 inches in height a policeman gneeded to be 6 foot to qulify.
    Now we have five foot nothing blondes at 65kg on the job against 6 foot 6 inch giants at 130kg.
    Seems to me the job applicant ain’t fit for purpose.

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  40. tristanb (1,133 comments) says:

    Viking2 (5,873) Says:
    Police chose to shoot the man. They could have done what any ordinary member of the public has to. Run away to a safer place.

    Are you… are you actually serious?

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  41. Scott Chris (5,947 comments) says:

    Other Andy says:- “Oil exploration on the East Cape is, in my opinion, a good thing for the East Cape and New Zealand as a whole.”

    I didn’t say it wasn’t.

    I repeat: “Will the local constituents end up with the best oil company, or merely the one which is best at peddling influence?”

    My point is that the established cultural relationship between private enterprise and public officials is inherently corrupt. You don’t need to go anywhere to assess the merits of a business proposal, you just need to heed the advice of an independent reliable consultancy with the relevant expertise to make objective recommendations.

    The main purpose of these junkets is to seduce, not to inform.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Falafulu Fisi

    Yes, it was a fake, but brilliantly done. That’s why I said, “literally unbelievable”

    Have you seen the one with the kite surfer who gets caught on a plane wing? Hilarious:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s0sRTxOc6g (40 seconds long)

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  42. TimG_Oz (922 comments) says:

    Hello Reid,

    You had some interesting advice for “Wetfootmammal” on yesterday’s GD – recommending to read the Book of Esther and the Book of Lot.

    (Without wanting to bore the locals), I found this quite interesting. The section in the book of Lot is controversial in some circles, where supposedly his daughters render him so drunk he was unaware of them, yet apparently able to get the pregnant, rendering the nations of Moab and Ammon.

    However more perplexing is your recommendation of the book of Esther (hardly a book, more of a scroll). This is the only story in the bible where God is not referenced at all (in fact kept hidden). Set in Persia (modern day Iran) after the first temple has been destroyed by Nebuchadnezzer (whom Saddam Hussein apparently aspired to be like). It tells the story of how the Jews were saved from Haman, who planned to destroy all the Jews in Persia, yet are saved (in what is seen to be an unstated miracle) when Queen Esther reveals herself as a Jew to King Ahashverus. Many today compare Haman to Ahmadinejad.
    It is defined as the story of Purim – Joseph Goebbels famously called for Purimfest in 1946 (as an apparent reference to destroy the Jews)

    I’m perplexed why you would recommend these two texts (specifically the second) over all others available as a reflection of God and Satan in the world. Any chance you can enlighten us on specific significance?
    Happy for you to add your interpretations to my paraphrasing above.

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  43. Other_Andy (2,459 comments) says:

    “Will the local constituents end up with the best oil company, or merely the one which is best at peddling influence?”

    I think you’ll find that the final choice of company that will get the license rests with the government.
    The oil company just acknowledges that the goodwill of the locals is important.
    First hand information is better than that of a (supposedly) independent consultancy firm.
    As I said before, as long as the selection process and everything else is open and transparent I don’t see any problems with it.
    If they were building a gas fired powerplant next door I would like to visit an existing one and talk to the locals. I wouldn’t just rely on a report from a consultancy firm.

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  44. calendar girl (1,197 comments) says:

    V2: “More bullshit. Police forced to shoot armed man

    “Not true. Police chose to shoot the man. They could have done what any ordinary member of the public has to. Run away to a safer place.”

    1. “Police forced to shoot armed man” was the headline (inserted no doubt by a sub-editor), but does not reflect accurately what was actually printed in the reporter’s story. It appears that the officers involved were in a pretty serious situation.

    2. What you advocate is not the kind of police force that I want around the place. If they had done as you suggest, the poor partner probably wouldn’t have stood much of a chance.

    3. But in your eyes she was just another female, I guess. (Your later comments indicate that you don’t think much of female police officers either.)

    4. I wonder if the police have done anything right, in your view, over the first 22 days of 2012.

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  45. slightlyrighty (2,499 comments) says:

    Just a thought…..

    If there is a gang that, as part of it’s initiation, requires it’s initiates to carry out a crime of the nature that was carried out in Turangi, would it not be in the public interest to name that gang?

    As a parent, I want to know.

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  46. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    calender girl. Shooting unarmed people is not the job of the police force any more than bending over to the thugs at the motion and sound industry is. Its their job to protect people from others and themselves. Well it was.Seems its no longer.
    3 cases where they have got away with this and now its part of daily policing.
    Tyhe man was unarmed albeit dangerous. But that’s what police are supposed to be avle to handle. Reaching for a gun and pointing it at an already would up suspect won’t work unless you intend to use the gun to stop that person.Which they did.
    Backing off but still in control is what should have been done.
    What respect for police will ensue when every citizen realises that if the are rounded up by the police a gun will be used evry time. More guns?
    Do we really want to live in a land of fear like say SouthAfrica?

    You don’t know what you’ve got until you lose it.
    Freedom and repsect for life is a tenuous thread that should be defended.

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  47. nasska (10,834 comments) says:

    Whether the need to shoot the offender was actual or a chance of a good headline V2 made a valid point when noted the relaxation of height/weight requirements for police officers. Regardless of any bullshit calling for proportions of gays, Asians or hermaphrodites in the force it has to be remembered that policing is essentially a “blue collar” job.

    Yap will solve some problems but when a P fueled nutter needs subdued kilos count.

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  48. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    V2

    Oodles of reasons to shoot a supposedly unarmed individual.

    You’ve answered your own statement anyway -Its their job to protect people from others and themselves.

    From my reading they were attending a domestic, they could have backed off and he kills his missus and kids, much gnashing of teeth then.

    And you are bloody grumpy this morning

    Re: Height restritions

    In 1979 I was the 3rd shortest in my wing at 5 10 an a bit, when I left in 2004 I was a giant seriously.

    And it is a blue collar job, there are always problems when they go through a period of taking university degrees in

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  49. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    2. What you advocate is not the kind of police force that I want around the place. If they had done as you suggest, the poor partner probably wouldn’t have stood much of a chance.

    The partner was long gone so throw away the poor partner bit.

    3. But in your eyes she was just another female, I guess. (Your later comments indicate that you don’t think much of female police officers either.)

    Oh so you think its all about females. If only you knew how much time I spend picking up their lives from the shit some of them have put up with. You don’t know anything.
    For some I am the first stable male in their lives. And I have my own life as well.

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  50. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    PEB No the lady and the kids had shot thru. read the article.

    Neighbour Tita Fausia, 29, said Ngaheu and two young children ran out of their Hanford Place driveway crying and yelling before police arrived.

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  51. tristanb (1,133 comments) says:

    Tyhe man was unarmed albeit dangerous. But that’s what police are supposed to be avle to handle. Reaching for a gun and pointing it at an already would up suspect won’t work unless you intend to use the gun to stop that person.Which they did.

    He was wielding a spade. Now I know it sounds silly, but a spade can be a nasty weapon – they have a long reach and they can be very sharp.

    What should have happened is that when the police came to the scene, the arsehole criminal should have come quietly. But he didn’t. You need to do something to incapacitate him – which they did, trying the least harmful methods first.

    This has nothing to do with eroding rights. You don’t have the right to threaten a policeman with a spade. Good on the police, and I’m sad that there’s always such a waste of time with the investigations of these things.

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  52. flipper (3,766 comments) says:

    Newt Gingrich beats Romney by 10 points in SC Republican Primary. The successful repub in SC usually becomes the WH candidate!

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  53. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    Doesn’t say that at all.
    “Then he came out and the police yelled ‘put it down or I’ll shoot you’ and bang three times I heard. [I knew] it was real, I know there was blood and he walked slowly and yelled ‘Oh my God’, then the cops grabbed him saying ‘get the handcuffs, get the handcuffs’.”

    Fired up people are angry and don’t respond to nice often, but that’s not a reason to kill.

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  54. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Didn’t kill him. Just mentioning

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  55. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Now i’m not one to call people silly names, but if i was, the ‘contribution’ from Viking 2 @ 9.59
    would deserve to be called a contribution from an absolute fucken moron.

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  56. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    David Garret & others,

    I haven’t followed this much at all, but I would be surprised if the kid did this to get patched. Patching a 15 year old isn’t something that I am aware happens, but every chapter can decide what it wants to do. Seeking entry into the gang does not necessarily mean being patched, but perhaps there are reports confirming that it was for a patch.

    At that age I would expect the kid to be seeking entry into one of the ‘feeder’ gangs that operate around the country. That would make more sense. They also use their ‘parent’ gang colours, so that could explain most of any symbols in any photos.

    And I wasn’t aware that the gang had the benefit of suppression; again, I have not been following this much, but are you sure it is suppression and not just the media declining to name the gang?

    Viking2,

    McCarthy was right. The left has made his name anathema because he attacked their friends, but he was right.

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  57. hmmokrightitis (1,558 comments) says:

    V2: Now we have five foot nothing blondes at 65kg on the job against 6 foot 6 inch giants at 130kg.
    Seems to me the job applicant ain’t fit for purpose.

    Fail. You might be surprised to learn just how well trained some of those smaller female cops are – they can drop the 130kg boys quite easily. Dont judge them by their size.

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  58. reid (16,066 comments) says:

    Tim, I’m sorry I got it wrong, it was Ruth, not Esther. Apologies also to Wetfoot.

    I’ve been trying to find an excellent article by Joseph Ehrlich where he lays it out explicitly but have been unable to locate it, however, the essence is that Abraham by challenging YHWH’s word in destroying all in Soddom allowed the escape of Lot who despite popular belief was not a righteous man in any way. Why would a righteous man offer up his daughters to be raped and then sleep with both of them, whether or not he was pissed? Would you sleep with your daughters even if you were pissed?

    This allowed the seed of the Moabites to spread into the population which is the genesis of the people we see today who are the ones intent on destroying this world and for which evidence aplenty exists.

    There is a lot of material on Ehrlich’s site @ http://senderberl.com

    Also see for a quick precis:
    http://www.rense.com/general59/sender.htm
    http://www.rense.com/general59/ehrl.htm
    http://www.rense.com/general60/ereh.htm

    Normally I hesitate to get into this background since most people don’t get it, at all and normally will go off on idiotic irrelevant tangents which is why I don’t however I know you’re a lot more educated in this stuff than most. For those people however who are thinking of tangents if they bother to click any of these links, those people might want to take note of the fact he wrote those rense articles in 2004 and even then was referring to what is now happening with the US and Syria and Iran. Now how did he know that, back then. Maybe Iran was obvious but Syria?

    Anyway, this is the historical background. I highly recommend Clarity, the book on the senderberl site. But history is history, it’s only of academic interest. What is relevant to me, is not that background but what is now happening today, who ARE the leaders of the global nations today, what is their real agenda and why are they doing all of this. The historical background I referred to last night answers only the last of those questions and if one wants to know what is going to happen next, one really needs to look at other sources.

    To sum it up

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  59. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    May well be right in a passive situation. like putting a mini up against a 45 tonner. Who wins. Run you car in front of a bus. even if you are right who wins?
    Logic says might is right.

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  60. reid (16,066 comments) says:

    I haven’t followed this much at all, but I would be surprised if the kid did this to get patched.

    FES I think reading between the lines, what may have happened is the kid, being a kid, might have thought if he did something “badass” like what he did, he might get brownie points. Of course that wasn’t true, no gang would let him in for that, that’s ridiculous, but if you’re a poorly educated kid surrounded daily by gangbangers and absorbing those ethics, that could have been what was in his head.

    (For clarity, I’m not saying I think it was “badass,” I’m saying he might have thought it was.)

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  61. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    fes, Mc carthy was like so many others a thug. left or right still a thug.

    Gees man I can’t beleive how so many fall for the Govt. line when it comes to peoples freedom.
    The yanks are broke and its because their leadership have bad attitudes. Taking it out on the rest of the world won’t fix it.

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  62. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    reid,

    I presume you are being sarcastic with your bit about no gang letting him in for this, but I suspect your other point is probably correct.

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  63. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    ELECTRIC vehicles will make up 20 per cent of new car sales in Australia by the end of the decade and 45 per cent by 2030, potentially requiring up to $10.2 billion in upgrades to the electricity system

    The findings are cited in a report by Julia Gillard’s top energy adviser, which finds that although electric cars are still a niche in Australia and are forecast to account for only 1 to 2 per cent of sales until 2015, the take-up is expected to surge later as vehicle prices fall to become competitive with those powered by petrol and diesel.

    Ya think electricity is expensive now. Just wait.

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  64. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Viking2,

    McCarthy was a populist and a CV enhancer, but he was still correct. The House Un-American Acitivities Committee dated (from memory) the early 1940s, before McCarthy was elected. His allegation that there were 205 prominent persons who were secret communists has been mostly proved correct.

    McCarthy was a right wing populist, while in the USA (as with NZ, the UK, Aus and so on) the media, intelligentsia and arts community are all left wing. Not so left as they were (many were communist until the 1960s or 1970s) but still left wing. And when you write the newspaper articles and the history books, you can portray people like McCarthy as being evil.

    The fact is that McCarthy was correct and the use of his name in the way you point out is wrong.

    However, the word you are looking for is ‘authoritarianism’, a favourite pastime of the left through the years.

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  65. Other_Andy (2,459 comments) says:

    Photosynthesis Fuel Company Gets a Large Investment

    Joule Unlimited will build a production plant for turning sunlight and CO2 into liquid fuels.
    The company claims that its genetically engineered bacteria will eventually be able to produce ethanol for as little as $1.23 a gallon or diesel fuel for $1.19 a gallon, less than half the current cost of both fossil fuels and existing biofuels.

    http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/39488/?p1=A4

    What s shame that the technology uses nasty genetically engineered bacteria and produces evil hydrocarbons.
    The ‘Greens’ will reject this technology as tampering with genetic enginering changes our relationship with Gaia (According to the Gaia III Conference in the “Holy Week” April 3rd-7th 1999).

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  66. Scott Chris (5,947 comments) says:

    F E Smith says:- “McCarthy was right. The left has made his name anathema because he attacked their friends, but he was right.”

    Funny how the ghost of McCarthy is so often evoked in the attitudes and rhetoric of certain elements of the conservative right. McCarthy was an enemy of freedom and practiced with great aplomb the fascist art of fearmongery, sowing seeds of paranoia which still manifest themselves in the psyche of most present day religious conservatives.

    You can’t even discuss ideas of fairness or the role of regulation and reasonable government intervention with some people these days, without being derisively labeled a Socialist or Marxist thanks to pernicious idiots like Senator Joseph McCarthy.

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  67. Nostalgia-NZ (4,992 comments) says:

    Scattered throughout the thread, in order I hope.

    Can’t see why the Judge in the case of the 15 year old should be criticised.
    The 15 year old wasn’t taking part in any initiation ceremony, his actions have already brought him into disfavour with those he allegedly sought to associate with. If the article is correct, the same has happened to his father. He’ll be in danger from them for possibly decades.

    I thought the procedure when there was no pressing danger to any individual in an ‘armed’ offender situation was, to withdraw into a containing situation and call in a negotiating team. I think the problem here was that the house was down a row in a fairly densely populated housing area, and the offender was on the move. He’s lucky to be alive, others have been shot and killed for threatening with axes, spades, a barbell, on one ocassion that I recall an one legged offender was shot and killed while holding an axe in a paddock – in a situation that it is hard to accept presented any immediate danger.
    Women have another dimension to their policing, of being non-threatening and able to engage, it’s disappointing to hear comment about their physical size as an issue.

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  68. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    FES thanks. I think the point I was trying to make is that once somebody in the establishemnet decides they don’t like what you are doing the establishmentthen seeks to destroy.

    What you think you might know but really don’t know about someone. Intersting.
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/herman-rockefellers-fall-from-grace/story-e6frf7jo-1226250391415

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  69. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    This fron Aussie.

    Dotcom was charged with criminal copyright infringement and conspiracy to commit racketeering. The FBI shut down his Hong Kong-based website, which it claims was used to pirate half a billion dollars worth of entertainment content.

    The husky Dotcom is a kingpin in a little-exposed side of the internet economy, who profited by tapping changes in technology, roiling the entertainment industry.
    The full digital experience

    His company, Megaupload Ltd., and similar online storage sites known as cyberlockers, have many legitimate uses, such as allowing people to share large presentation files and home movies.

    Despite the legal controversy brewing around his website – and a previous conviction for insider trading – Dotcom didn’t lay low or hide anonymously behind his computer.

    Here in lies the truth of the operation.
    But US authorities and entertainment executives say in court documents and interviews that cyberlockers are at the vanguard of online piracy. On Friday, the US Congress abandoned two controversial antipiracy bills.

    So not able to attack the cyberlockers users they attack the host.
    If they get away with this then they will have carte blanche to attack any host any where anytime regardless of the separation between hoster and hostee.
    Not good.

    Oh and it won’t just apply to music and entertainement. Even your company files will be vulnerable.

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  70. Scott Chris (5,947 comments) says:

    Other Andy says:- “What shame that the technology uses nasty genetically engineered bacteria and produces evil hydrocarbons.”

    Nothing wrong with GE, or renewable hydrocarbons, provided they are commercially and ecologically viable. Same goes for fossil hydrocarbons.

    In the end, the only thing that matters to those of us with a rational concern for the environment is the long term *sustainable* use of resources, no matter what they are.

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  71. reid (16,066 comments) says:

    I presume you are being sarcastic with your bit about no gang letting him in for this, but I suspect your other point is probably correct.

    Well I’m guessing of course FES but no I could quite believe that would be the case. Not because of morality, but because of the intense heat such a crime attracts.

    Meanwhile, in America…

    http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/01/17/americas-last-chance/

    Americans cannot see beyond their ideologies to the real issue, which is the choice between the Constitution and tyranny…

    …When Homeland Security, a federal police force, comes into states, as I know has occurred in Georgia and Tennessee, and doubtless other states, and together with the state police stop cars and trucks on Interstate highways and subject them to warrantless searches, what is happening is the de facto deputizing of the state police by Homeland Security. This is the way that Goering and Himmler federalized into the Gestapo the independent police forces of German provinces such as Prussia and Bavaria…

    …One wonders if even brainwashed flag-waving “superpatriots” can miss the message. The Social Security office of Leesburg, Florida, population 19,086 in central Florida is not a place where terrorists devoid of proper ID might be visiting. To protect America from the scant possibility that terrorists might be congregating at the Leesburg Social Security office, the tyrants in Washington sent the Federal Protective Service at who knows what cost to demand ID from locals visiting their Social Security office.

    What is this all about, except to establish the precedent that federal police, a new entity in American life, the Federal Protective Service, has authority over state and local police offices and can appear out of the blue to interrogate local citizens.

    Why the ACLU thinks it is going to get any action out of a Congress that has accommodated the executive branch’s destruction of habeas corpus, due process, and the constitutional and legal prohibitions against torture is beyond me. But at least the issue is raised. But don’t expect to hear about it from the “mainstream media.”

    Boiling the frog. Amazing how many Americans can’t even see it. Doubly amazing that many people outside the US looking in, can’t see it either, instead retaining this naive perspective that Uncle Sam is only doing what its forced to do by the evil tewwowists. Triply amazing that many such people aren’t naive, foolish lefties but rather hawkish conservatives. The very people who pride themselves on taking a hard-nosed approach to global reality, vigorously seeking the real facts. The power of cognitive dissonance, writ large.

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  72. Other_Andy (2,459 comments) says:

    @SC

    Senator Joseph McCarthy an idiot?
    He might have been an extremist in his methods but he was right in nearly all his accusations.
    Have you heard of the Venona project?

    The Moynihan Commission (An official two year investigation into government secrecy and personnel security practices) wrote in its final report:

    “A balanced history of this period is now beginning to appear; the Venona messages will surely supply a great cache of facts to bring the matter to some closure. But at the time, the American Government, much less the American public, was confronted with possibilities and charges, at once baffling and terrifying.”

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  73. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Q. What time is it ?
    A. Any time Chuck Norris wants it to be.

    Before the Boogeyman goes to bed he checks his wardrobe to make sure Chuck
    Norris is not in there.

    Chuck Norris has counted from zero to infinity. Twice.

    When Chuck Norris endorses you as a candidate how can you lose ?

    Newt Gingrich just proved the power of Chuck Norris.

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  74. Other_Andy (2,459 comments) says:

    “In the end, the only thing that matters to those of us with a rational concern for the environment is the long term *sustainable* use of resources, no matter what they are.”

    And that is where the problem is.
    I have emphasised what separates most of us from the so called ‘Greenies’.
    Quite a few of them are more like religeous extremists than environmentalists.

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  75. nasska (10,834 comments) says:

    Nostalgia-NZ @ 2.12

    The father of the piece of shit who assaulted the little girl in Turangi may have been given the DCM from the gang but it would not indicate that they were appalled by his son’s behaviour. Rather it shows how the gangs’ focus has moved from anti social urban terrorism into big business. Daddy would probably been just a scum foot soldier but as long as he was associated with the gang he would have attracted unwanted attention from the police & public.

    Thanks to our drug laws criminals have been handed wealth on a plate…..the red bandanas & patches are what the real bosses want you to see. The kingpins who call the shots will be well dressed, probably in suits, being chauffeur driven in the latest Holden Commodore.

    Publicity such as caused by child rape is bad for business.

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  76. cha (3,830 comments) says:

    A presentation by Adam Posen, an outside member of the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy Committee.

    http://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/audio/what_return_of_19th_century_economics_means_for_21st_century_geopolitics_speech.mp3

    Transcript

    This is a tale of getting closer to unfettered markets in many ways, which I hasten to say I am solely
    forecasting, not recommending or endorsing. That being the case, it raises a host of potential parallels with
    the late 19th century in politics, regarding popular protest from labour, status quo countries coordinating
    against ‘revolutionary’ and non-state actors, rivalry being moved into imperial competition for markets and
    resources, and of course the eventual political limit to international integration that contributed to the First
    World War and what Harold James has called “the end of globalization.”

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  77. Nostalgia-NZ (4,992 comments) says:

    nasska at 2.34.

    Things are trending in the direction you suggest (avoiding trouble,) but less so in places like Turangi and less so with this particular group not known for being bright and with a less than enviable record of getting caught. But one thing that has always been the case is that ‘fiddlers’ are hated, to be associated with them or to protect them brings its own disdain. What the 15 year old has admitted doing will only be beginning to sink in, they have a term for those convicted of these crimes that he’ll never live down under his own identity and with which comes present danger on all sides.

    I don’t want to divert into your comments about drug laws, I just wanted to comment for those that expressed concerned that this crime was some kind of rite of passage.

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  78. Dazzaman (1,129 comments) says:

    Scott Chris (3,458) Says:
    January 22nd, 2012 at 8:48 am
    Check this stunt out. (45 seconds long) Literally unbelievable:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wAjpMP5eyo

    It’s a hoax Scott, a brilliant one but definitely a hoax……seen it debunked on Mythbusters or something like that.

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  79. Scott Chris (5,947 comments) says:

    Dazzaman

    Yes, it was a fake, but brilliantly done. That’s why I said, “literally unbelievable”

    Have you seen the one with the kite surfer who gets caught on a plane wing? Hilarious:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s0sRTxOc6g (40 seconds long)

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  80. Dazzaman (1,129 comments) says:

    So not able to attack the cyberlockers users they attack the host.
    If they get away with this then they will have carte blanche to attack any host any where anytime regardless of the separation between hoster and hostee.

    Absolutely.

    One of the particularly galling aspects about the whole affair is the fact that the Americans continue to push upon their largely unsuspecting domestic audience the evil foreigners line with respect to copyright infringement. Megauploads were a juicy target for them to point and say “Lookee!! Foreign Devils!!”, being Germans, pseudo-Kiwis and others. Alright to have those Mexicans serve you coffee and clean your pool though…..bloody hypocrites.

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  81. Dazzaman (1,129 comments) says:

    Scott

    Looks like great fun!! Yeah, another goodie.

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  82. gump (1,538 comments) says:

    What galls me about the Megaupload shutdown is the hysterical response of the freetard community.

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  83. calendar girl (1,197 comments) says:

    V2: You’re all over the place on this police shooting story:

    @12:39 – “Tyhe man was unarmed albeit dangerous.” He was armed, all right – the story you yourself cited says that “Smith came out of his house armed with a spade and tried to attack police …” The guy is said to have survived police pepper spray and tasers (the latter I would doubt, incidentally). Then he “broke open a gas bottle …”

    @12:39 – “Backing off but still in control is what should have been done.” That’s a very different suggestion from what you said when you began on this episode @9:59: “They could have done what any ordinary member of the public has to. Run away to a safer place.”

    @12:51 – “The partner was long gone so throw away the poor partner bit.” and @12:51 (#2) – “Neighbour Tita Fausia, 29, said Ngaheu and two young children ran out of their Hanford Place driveway crying and yelling before police arrived.” The story you yourself cited also says: “Smith was wheeled into an ambulance wearing only black underwear without making a sound while Ngaheu was taken away by police.” So she was handy, it seems – as you say, read the article.

    @12:51(#2) – “Oh so you think its all about females. If only you knew how much time I spend picking up their lives ….” If you do not want to be seen as a misogynist, it might be better if you didn’t use extravagant generalisations that portray women as somehow inferior. Or refer to possible domestic abuse on a female as “the poor partner bit”. [I know nothing about your own good works with women with broken lives - but from the little that you have said, good on you for that.]

    @1:27 – “Fired up people are angry and don’t respond to nice often, but that’s not a reason to kill.” That’s a seriously misleading comment when everything indicates that the police deliberately aimed at the legs, not to kill.

    The shooting will be investigated formally in the prescribed way, as provided for in the law, and no doubt there also will be a Court prosecution of Mr Smith, the “victim” of the shooting. Those will be the forums in which evidence will be presented, cross-examined and weighed against all the prevailing circumstances. Meantime, it’s my view that your kind of unguarded criticism of the police over this incident is quite unwarranted – unless and until ultimately proved otherwise. The NZ Police is not perfect, but I shudder to think what our society would be like if our police officers were compelled by the force of public pressure to “run away to a safer place” when confronted with criminal threats.

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  84. john.bt (170 comments) says:

    Last night I was watching an episode of Six Feet Under that I had recorded. There was a guy rabbiting on; a boring, know-it-all arsehole who just wouldn’t shut the fuck up. Then his missus whacked him with a cast-iron skillet. Couldn’t help but wonder if Mrs Scott Chris had seen the programme.

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  85. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/21/egypt-election-clear-islamist-victory

    Well bugger me never saw this happening

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  86. Longknives (4,624 comments) says:

    Nostalgia-NZ “But one thing that has always been the case is that ‘fiddlers’ are hated, to be associated with them or to protect them brings its own disdain”

    Wrong. Sorry but you are living, as your name suggests, in a nostalgic world. Gangs like Mongrel Mob and Black Power have no ‘Moral Code’..they are feral scum who have no hesitation in sexual violence,incest and offences against children.
    That’s why they proudly call themselves ‘Mongrels’-they ain’t gentlemen…

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  87. Longknives (4,624 comments) says:

    “Now we have five foot nothing blondes at 65kg on the job against 6 foot 6 inch giants at 130kg.
    Seems to me the job applicant ain’t fit for purpose.”

    V2- I actually prefer the ‘modern’ police force which I think is a bit more diverse and slightly higher educated (most the cops I know personally have degrees) than it was in the bad old days…
    No offence Pauleastbay but the days of 6’2 neanderthal thugs with moustaches went out with the old ‘Tit’ helmet…

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  88. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    Need glasses Calender Girl. Short on comprhension skills?
    You conviently added 2+2 to get 5. We don’t know that he was armed at the time of the shooting with a spade and even if he was we don’t know that he would have used it if the policeman had moved back.

    The article clearly says that the partner and kids were gone out of the house so although the incident started with an argument she had fled. Not saying at all that it didn’t happen Just correctly staing that she had fled and was not involved with the police..

    Where did it say poice aimed at the legs? eh not there is it. You are making stuff up in your imagination again. Given that policeman often have to shoot animals other than humans and the many reported efforts that are abysmal we could surmise that was the case here. But, we don’t know.

    and given the track record to date of the Police authiority investgations they will clear everything as they always do. Thats what they are there for. Haven’t you figured that yet.

    Sorry but I am always deeply suspicious when firearms form part of these incidents. Especially as I have yet to see Parliament pass a law that allow our Police to be armed at all times and to sanction that use.

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  89. TimG_Oz (922 comments) says:

    @Reid 1.45pm

    No problem – I was confused by the Esther reference, although it seemed possibly relevant to the previous discussions on Iran.

    Regarding the creation of the nation of Moab, I agree with your summation. The controversy I think sparks from people who read the text, without the full context, as it appears to exonorate rape, which as you mention, is not the case. The name given was brazenly “Moab” which literally means “From Father”. Other reading could be the story of Balak and Balaam

    I’m not sure if the references to the nation of Moab in today’s context are correct. I think the author could be mistaken with the nation of Edom.
    The Israelites were forbidden from provoking war with the Nation of Moab. The Moabites (Lot’s descendants) were rewarded by God with a share of the land that was destined for Abraham.

    The arch-enemy in the story of the Exodus is really noted as the Amelekites. Haman in the aforementioned book of Esther is reputed to be an Amalekite.

    Just finally, not sure if you had something to add when you stated “To sum it up” without further discussion..

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  90. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    ………………..days of 6’2 neanderthal thugs with moustaches ………….

    Well excuse me, some of those neanderthals are still some of my best friends, trust me don’t underestimate the use of neanderthals, give me a fit one of them over a degree in socail work any day

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  91. grumpyoldhori (2,412 comments) says:

    hmmokrightitis you seem confused, police get three months training in total before they are out on the job which is not going to give females times for a black belt.

    So a question, you have a 6′ 6″ 130 kg bloke grab a female pretend copper of 60 kg by the throat and lifts her so her feet are off the ground while he thumps her.
    She will be doing what ?

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  92. DJP6-25 (1,295 comments) says:

    Peter George 8:43. Works for me.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  93. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    grumpyoldhori
    She will be pepper spraying him for a start hopefully.
    If we were to follow your twisted logic the only answer to a 6’6″ 130kg bloke would be
    a 6’8″ 135kg cop. Right ? Jeez mate.

    Nearly as moronic as Viking2 suggestion that the police, “run away to a safer place.”
    After seeing the circumstances described on TV news tonight anyone can see how moronic
    Viking2 suggestion is.

    Congratulations New Zealand Police.
    Job well done. Thankyou.

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  94. nasska (10,834 comments) says:

    Could be worth noting that height is not, as far as I know, an indication of the presence or absence of intelligence. Grumpy’s observation is pertinent, however, as it is reasonably difficult to do most of the advanced karate & jujitsu moves when your feet are 600mm off the ground.

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  95. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    bereal (1,182) Says:
    January 22nd, 2012 at 6:35 pm

    grumpyoldhori
    She will be pepper spraying him for a start hopefully.

    Oh dear.
    Can’t read I guess.
    Police used pepper spray to little effect and shot him with a taser.
    Officers tried to negotiate with the man but he armed himself with a garden spade and an LPG cylinder that was leaking gas.

    so they tasered him and shot him with a leaking(according to reports) gas cylinder.
    Eh.
    Police used pepper spray to little effect and shot him with a taser.

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  96. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    nasska
    you aligning yourself with geniuses like Viking2 and grumpy on this one ?
    i’m suprised at you.

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  97. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    My last word on this one.
    Hey Viking2 or grumpy, particularly Viking2
    Why do you hate New Zealand Police ?

    Either genius can answer this then.

    If a 6’6″ 130 kg criminal grabs a 5’10″ 75 kg policeman by the throat and lifts him off the ground
    what do you geniuses suggest would be the policemans next move ?

    And you can guarantee that if either Viking2 or grumpy ever get into trouble like this the first thing they would
    scream is, “Help police.”

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  98. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Jeez Viking2 you really are pathetic.

    How do you shoot someone with a leaking gas cylinder ?

    Who is the pathetic moron here ?

    Why do you hate the police ?

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  99. reid (16,066 comments) says:

    Tim what was that book you were going to refer me to awhile ago? Is it available via web or out of print?

    “To sum up” was a residue, which I didn’t catch in the edit cycle.

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  100. nasska (10,834 comments) says:

    bereal

    I’m commenting on the stupidity of putting a 65kg woman against a 120kg plus man. It doesn’t matter whether it’s cop vs thug or wife vs partner….women simply do not have the same upper body strength. Sooner or later we’ve got to accept that policing is a physical job & as in most occupations involving strength & weight women are at a disadvantage.

    If the cops are recruited solely for their people skills or negotiating abilities it stands to reason that when these strategies don’t work then they are going to have to be armed to do the job they are there for.

    I’m not certain that we want petite police packing sidearms but this is where we are heading.

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  101. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    bereal (1,185) Says:
    January 22nd, 2012 at 6:53 pm

    Why do you hate the police ?

    As it happens I don’t, but I also don’t think that they should automatically run rough shod over anyone in their path and that is the tendency that has been happening for sometime. Short trip from there to police state.

    They are after all paid by us the Taxpayer and should treat us with some respect. Too often they just see us all as crimnals waiting to be locked up.

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  102. Nostalgia-NZ (4,992 comments) says:

    Longknives 5.39

    I didn’t extend my answer to ‘moral code,’ that’s your input. But if you think they’re indiscriminate child molesters you must have the proof?

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  103. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    nasska
    so i take it that in your opinion there is no place for female police officers ?
    You should explain to most of the police forces where they have got it wrong
    employing women.
    It’s the badge and the office that needs to be respected and as soon as the word gets out to all
    that if you disrespect it you will be pepper sprayed or tazered or shot, the better.

    Or, is it your opinion that the police should always despatch an officer who is bigger and
    stronger than the criminal they need to deal with ?
    You see of course how ridiculous that suggestion is.

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  104. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Viking2 @ 7.02
    “too often they see us all as criminals to be locked up.”

    You just exposed your whole pathetic moronic act right there Viking2

    In your sicko mind maybe, thankfully you are in a very small club with that attitude.
    Your mates in the mongrel mob and black power no doubt have the same opinion.

    When have you been treated with disrespect by the police ?
    And if you ever have been you can put your ring around the fact that you asked for it.

    I suggest you change your attitude.

    Perhaps you could give us an example of a police force anywhere that you do respect.

    Of course you hate the police, anyone who has read your pathetic posts today can see that.
    Question is. Why ?

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  105. Nostalgia-NZ (4,992 comments) says:

    bereal 7.11

    Police women offer a different approach, the more women police the better. But your examples are too extreme, you seem to think the resolution to everything is who brings the most violence. I don’t agree with that, I don’t believe that is what police women do.

    As for ‘It’s the badge and the office that needs to be respected and as soon as the word gets out to all
    that if you disrespect it you will be pepper sprayed or tazered or shot, the better.’ With an attitude like that I don’t think you’d be welcome in the modern police, in fact in recent years the effort has been made to weed that attitude out.

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  106. nasska (10,834 comments) says:

    bereal

    Women are needed in the NZ Police but I still have reservations about their safety in extreme situations. Although I’m putting my head well over the parapet on this I hold similar doubts about women in combat roles in the armed forces. I would take some convincing that the badge & office are held in any sort of respect by some of the low life the cops have to deal with. You suggest force……too much & we’ll end up like the USA….. too little & we’ll end up with anarchy such as the situation in much of Britain.

    In short, I still believe that policing is a physical occupation. The girls can do anything idea holds good for motor mechanics or truck driving but a car park brawl is not the place for semantics.

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  107. Other_Andy (2,459 comments) says:

    nasska at 7:38 pm

    As usual, you make a lot of sense nasska.
    Common sense……..

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  108. calendar girl (1,197 comments) says:

    V2@6.07 – “We don’t know that he was armed at the time of the shooting with a spade and even if he was we don’t know that he would have used it if the policeman had moved back.”

    But the article you yourself cited read at that time, quoting a neighbour witness: “Smith then came out of his house armed with a spade and tried to attack police, who retaliated with Tasers and pepper spray, she said.”

    Once again, it appears to be you who is “Short on comprhension (sic) skills”.

    V2@6.07 – “Where did it say poice (sic) aimed at the legs?”

    Must have been a rash assumption that I made when I learned that – from a close-up distance – the police shot the person in both legs. But in trying to justify your misleading “not a reason to kill” comment, you want us to believe that the police were just bad shots. You’re not serious, surely.

    V2@6.07 – “and given the track record to date of the Police authiority (sic) investgations (sic) they will clear everything as they always do.”

    If (as I assume) you are referring to the Independent Police Conduct Authority, that is an appalling, possibly libelous, comment to make.

    V2@7.02 – “Why do you hate the police? As it happens I don’t ….”

    Sadly, I can’t believe you on that. Most of what you say on the subject points in the opposite direction. But I now accept that I can’t change things in your closed mind, so I will leave you to deal with your own prejudices.

    I give the police my complete support on this incident unless / until it is proved that they have done something outside of the law and/or their operational instructions. In the meantime, I agree with bereal’s sentiment: “Congratulations New Zealand Police. Job well done. Thankyou.”

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  109. Steve (4,517 comments) says:

    This one has to be a dumarse white trash boy surely:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10780356&ref=rss

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  110. Nostalgia-NZ (4,992 comments) says:

    calander girl 7.56

    ‘Must have been a rash assumption that I made when I learned that – from a close-up distance – the police shot the person in both legs. But in trying to justify your misleading “not a reason to kill” comment, you want us to believe that the police were just bad shots. You’re not serious, surely.’

    Maybe there has been a change, but I recall the frequent argument that police fire at the largest body mass – the chest. This was an argument in the incident where a young man was killed by police after breaking windows.
    I didn’t know until today that the tazers had cameras operating, that an innovative move to protect both the public and the police.

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  111. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    Calender girl. what ever goes on in your tiny mind. Seems to be you make lots of rash assumptions, a bit like bereal. You two should get married. you are made for one another.

    bereal, you have been handed your arse before. If you bother to note what I had to say about the Organised Crime outfit yesterday then you would have noted that I made it clear I considered that there job was dealing with those particular organisations which is what the Taxpayer expects and not running an FBI civil complaint. But I suppose you think that they are right with that too. Dumb as dumb can be. go away until you are grown up enough to converse with adults.

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  112. nasska (10,834 comments) says:

    A man was being interviewed for a job.

    “Were you in the service?” asked the interviewer. “Yes, I was a marine”, responded the applicant

    “Did you see any active duty?”

    “I was in Afghanistan for 2 years and I have a partial disability.”

    “May I ask what happened?”

    “Well, I had a grenade go off between my legs, I lost both testicles.”

    “You’re hired. You can start Monday at 10:00 AM.”

    “When does everyone else start? I don’t want any preferential treatment because of my disability.

    “Everyone else starts at 7 am but I might as well be honest with you. Nothing gets done between 7 and 10. We just sit around scratching our balls trying to decide what to do first.”

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  113. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    Nostalgia-nz. Add to that Stephen Anderson in Christchurch a couple of years back and he was the second person shot by that particular officer while totally unarmed.
    There are one or two others as well including the innocent young man killed by the inept and disorganised behavoir of the Auckland AOS just last year. And that was what the police Authority had to say about the job.

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  114. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    anyway my original point was that the report said the policeman was forced to shoot Mr Smith.
    My point was that he was not forced to but chose to. i.e. no body stood over him and forced him to shoot.
    Like everything we do we make choices. Time will tell if it was the right choice.
    I have no idea but in my view shooting is rarely justified.

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  115. TimG_Oz (922 comments) says:

    Hey Reid .. there’s been a few books I mentioned. I sent you one about the Mossad. Is that the one you meant?

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  116. hmmokrightitis (1,558 comments) says:

    GO Hori: Have a few girly copper mates, ride MTB’s with them mostly. All great chicks, every one of them. The smallest one had something similar to this happen to her, lifted up off the ground by a perp who thought she looked the easiest mark. Wrong answer. He has probably still got the toe cap imprint on his nuts. Dropped him with one kick.

    One of my nephews is in blue, out West Auckland. Lots of the freshers go on to do martial arts or defensive training of some sort. My nephew chose Thai Kick Boxing. But then he’s 6’6″ :)

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  117. Steve (4,517 comments) says:

    Viking2,

    Nobody shoots at me, why is that? Nobody tazers me, nobody handcuffs me
    Nobody hits me, or arrests me, nobody.
    Am I doing something wrong to not get all of this attention?
    You are a suckholer V2, you are part of the problem with these iceholes who rely on soft cocks like you to use the ‘System’

    The Police are very bad shooters and they cost TAXPAYERS heaps of money. A $2 bullet between the eyes and a $2K creamation is better than a 40 year artificial legs maintainence.
    I am sick of paying for scum

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  118. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    I don’t give a fuck if that daft cunt Smith was armed with a smurf or something more lethal.
    If the Police were sure he was a pissed up threat to society then they did well to shoot. Another half a day of drinking could have led to another Jan Molenaar type stake out and innocent victims losing their lives.

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  119. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    Thank God the world is not run by poeople like you then Steve. That’s why its almost civilized.
    Resorting to calling me names doesn’t win your argument mearly shows how small your brain ability is. I’m not a softy on crime, never have been and you cannot justify the unwarranted shooting of a person momentarily out of control.

    Nobody shoots at me, why is that? Nobody tazers me, nobody handcuffs me
    Nobody hits me, or arrests me, nobody.
    You just never know when you go awol.

    Watson have you ever pulled trigger? against anything? Thought not. You are just another big mouth. just like Steve.

    y

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  120. Viking2 (11,220 comments) says:

    Mega upload and what it could mean for you if you have been there.

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  121. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Suckholer.

    What a great word. What a great description. Spot on the money.

    Isn’t it funny how a suckholer complains about people calling him names and then goes on to call others names.

    What a suckholer.

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