Getting ahead of ourselves

January 23rd, 2012 at 1:49 pm by David Farrar

Kirsty Johnston at Stuff reports:

The men’s hearing comes as Opposition politicians call for accountability into Dotcom’s status as a resident.

Although the overweight, flamboyant former hacker – who legally changed his name to Dotcom from Shmitz – had convictions from his native Germany, he was able to settle in Auckland after investing $10 million in New Zealand government bonds in 2010.

Those bonds are now part of the assets frozen by authorities investigating the charges against Megaupload – which include racketeering, money laundering and copyright infringements.

NZ First leader Winston Peters called for the prime minister to set up an immediate inquiry into how Dotcom was allowed to stay permanently in Auckland, where he lived in a $30 million mansion belonging to the Chrisco enterprise founders.

“It has been reported that Dotcom is known in Germany as a notorious computer hacker and has been convicted of insider trading, yet immigration authorities let him settle here under the so-called investor-plus category. The prime minister should order an immediate inquiry … to see who was involved in this immigration scandal and ensure that it doesn’t happen again.”

Labour immigration spokeswoman Darien Fenton said that before there was an inquiry, it should be asked whose responsibility it was to allow the discretion to overlook his convictions.

The “investor-plus” category Dotcom’s residency fell into needed to be looked at to ensure others of “dubious” character were not also able to bypass the good character test, she said.

In a statement, the Immigration Service said that “Mr Dotcom made full disclosure of his previous convictions and they were taken into account in the granting of his residence. The Immigration Act allows for discretion to be exercised in certain cases. In this particular case, Immigration NZ weighed the character issue and any associated risk to New Zealand against potential benefits to New Zealand”.

Calling for an inquiry into why he had been granted residency before he has even had a trial, is a rather bad case of the horse before the cart.

Certainly based on what has been reported to date, I have a pretty negative impression of Mr Dotcom. And in fact in several media interviews have said that at this stage the copyright holders have acted appropriately in complaining to the authorities, and the authorities laying charges if they have a good faith belief laws have been broken.

This is very different to demanding that new laws be instituted so that people may lose their Internet access on the basis of accusation, or in the case of SOPA that ISPs be forced to block websites based on accusations. These damage the Internet terribly.

But having said that my initial impression of Dotcom is negative, he has yet to have his extradition hearing let alone have his day in court. Only if he is found guilty of breaking the law, would you then expect there to be (quite legitimate) questions about the process and decision making around his residency approval.

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40 Responses to “Getting ahead of ourselves”

  1. tvb (3,314) Says:

    An inquiry into how this man got residency does not require the criminal case be concluded for one thing there would be different standards of proof and what material could be relief upon in the immigration inquiry.

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  2. plebe (271) Says:

    If the USA says hes guilty,he is ,case closed and if he isnt, John Key will change the law so he is.

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  3. joe bloggs (124) Says:

    “…Calling for an inquiry into why he had been granted residency before he has even had a trial, is a rather bad case of the horse before the cart….”

    Hehehe… I don’t know about you but back on the Ponderosa del Bloggs it’s common practice to harness the horse before the cart!!!

    Know what you mean though… due process and all that… but OMG I had no idea how much money could be made from filesharing sites. That’s been a wee eye-opener.

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  4. Pete George (17,596) Says:

    WP: The prime minister should order an immediate inquiry … to see who was involved in this immigration scandal and ensure that it doesn’t happen again.

    Winston could head the inquiry because he appears to already know what was scandalous, that would save some time and effort.

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  5. Keeping Stock (8,810) Says:

    What tvb said; some sort of explanation from Immigration NZ or the Immigration Minister is required to determine how Dotcom appears to have circumvented the good character requirement for residence based on his PAST conduct, not what he has been arrested for now. The issues are effectively quite separate.

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  6. berend (1,387) Says:

    Haven’t seen yet any charges that he has actually broken the law. And DPF, it would be very helpful if you could distinguish between civil and criminal law. They are vastly different. We here have the case of Hollywood expecting millions of tax dollars be spend on police resources to arrest someone who has NOT been accused of copying their stuff, only perhaps not been diligent enough in stopping others doing this.

    I expect the NZ police sends a bill to Hollywood. We don’t need crony businesses ordering our police around to arrest citizens because they have a lost $500 million. That’s basically the profit for a single movie, i.e. peanuts on the Hollywood scale.

    [DPF: I suggest you read the NZ Copyright Act. S131 is headed up criminal liability for making or dealing with infringing objects and relates to commercial infringement of copyright. The maximum penalty is five years jail]

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  7. orewa1 (337) Says:

    I know this is off-topic, BUT:

    Why does Kirsty, up front in her article, find it necessary to describe Dotcom as “overweight?” It feels pejorative – a way to dimish his credibility in the eyes of the reader before even getting to the substance of the story. Mildly distasteful

    A very quick Google search on Kirsty reveals a little about her. Would she find it acceptable if an article about her commenced by referring to her as “the blonde, chicken farming, pepermint tea-loving journalist…..?”

    Am I being over-sensitive?

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  8. Yvette (2,419) Says:

    Calling for an inquiry into why he had been granted residency before he has even had a trial, is a rather bad case of the horse before the cart.

    That is utterly irrelevant when you are Winston grabbing for a few headlines.
    [ Remember him absolutely condemning the tea tape as illegal on a Monday and being the only one to have released details of its content by Thursday afternoon? Due procedure and legality – pfft! ]

    orewa1 – Am I being over-sensitive?

    probably not – consider if the person arrested was a woman. Would the word appear then?
    I think not.

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  9. Chris2 (621) Says:

    One can not help but wonder about the unfolding Court drama going on right now (bail hearing) where there is a awful lot of emphasis on the fact there were a couple of firearms at the property.

    I wonder if this is to head off the invertible criticism that will emerge about the Police overkill in having two helicopters, and was it over a 100 Police (??) storm the place.

    We’re not talking armed bank robbers or violent drug dealers here (ie. people responsible for the deaths of others), it does seem overkill on the part of the Police. I’d have been grateful if even one cop had turned up to my place when it burgled.

    I think the Police lost their perspective with this raid.

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  10. tvb (3,314) Says:

    I suspect the criminal charges are being used as useful cover to kick for touch. I think the pm and minister of immigration should be pressed further on this

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  11. Dean Papa (398) Says:

    “In this particular case, Immigration NZ weighed the character issue and any associated risk to New Zealand against potential benefits to New Zealand”.

    translation: money doesn’t smell

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  12. tvb (3,314) Says:

    Of the convictions relate to his proposed business activity in nz the there may be an error of judgment

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  13. slijmbal (977) Says:

    The good character requirement is pretty much tested by looking for convictions. There’s no real sensible way to do otherwise. From memory referees are also requested but that’s pretty easy to arrange for anyone. Because of the German clean slate approach I believe that means Immigration did not know about the convictions if he did not state them on his application. The question is whether he stated them on his application.

    The test by the OIO is much stronger, ironically. They do a more proactive investigation. Thus, his inability to purchase the Chrisco mansion.

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  14. flipper (1,666) Says:

    As a matter of interest, is it true as Fox News reported yesterday, that Dottie… personally funded Auckland’s 2010 fireworks display?

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  15. V (572) Says:

    Of course you should have backups, but this is food for thought.

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/01/did-the-feds-just-kill-the-cloud-storage-model.html

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  16. wat dabney (2,700) Says:

    Winston Peters questioning other people’s character. And apparently with a straight face.

    Oh my aching sides.

    Here’s the thing, Winston. There’s actually an unofficial rule applied – called the Peters Yardstick Test – in which Immigration compares would-be immigrants’ character with your own. The only problem is they end up letting every dodgy, lying cunt into the country.

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  17. Pete George (17,596) Says:

    flipper – TV1 or TV3 reported that he did a couple of days ago.

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  18. gump (659) Says:

    orewa1 said:

    Am I being over-sensitive?

    ———————-

    Yes you are being over-sensitive.

    Kimble is grossly obese – this is a statement of fact.

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  19. Viking2 (9,489) Says:

    Itsd Kimbles Choice. Something that seems to escape the lefty language. CHOICE. Great thing. Try it sometime.f favour at the behave.

    Oh dear. DPF will be out of flavour at the BEEHave.

    John Key commented on, all by himself just this very morning, the circumstances surrondiong the granting of the residency.
    Telstra News. Please note the time.
    Key defends decision to let Kim Dotcom in NZ

    Monday, 23, Jan, 2012 8:25AM

    The Prime Minister is defending the Government’s decision to allow Kim Dotcom into the country.

    John Key says the test of good character meant the native German received residency here.

    He says Kim Dotcom declared his past wrongdoings overseas before coming into New Zealand.

    “He had a clean slate because those convictions happened many years earlier under German law, so the New Zealand officials contacted the German police, they confirmed that I guess on the balance they decided to let him in without reference to the ministers,” he told Newstalk ZB’s Susan Wood.

    Mr Key says the fact that he declared them, meant he passed the test of good character.

    “I think because they deemed under the clean slate legislation he effectively didn’t have a record and he wasn’t trying to hide anything, those convictions were a long time ago, so they let him through,” he says.

    Mr Key says this case doesn’t necessarily mean the law needs to be changed.

    Dotcom and three others appear again in the North Shore District Court today, fighting a bid by the FBI to extradite them.

    Try and keep up.

    And Telstra news has reported.
    Dotcom bail decision reserved

    Monday, 23, Jan, 2012 4:01PM

    The judge in the bail hearing of German internet giant Kim Dotcom at the North Shore District Court has reserved his decision until tomorrow or Wednesday at the latest.

    The 37-year-old was arrested in Auckland in a joint FBI sting into internet piracy.

    http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/news/news-story.cfm?content_id=826107

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  20. Viking2 (9,489) Says:

    Perhaps this is why the FBI and its corporate buddies are so pissed off.
    We don’t want what they produce.

    Movies take a hit during quakes, World Cup
    Updated 5:11 PM Monday Jan 23, 2012

    Last year’s box office figures finished at $161.8 million, a nine per cent drop on 2010′s record breaking year of $176.5 million in sales.
    Movie sales took a hit during the Rugby World Cup and after Christchurch’s February earthquake last year.

    The Motion Picture Distributors’ Association of New Zealand has released the box office figures comparing the 2010 and 2011 years, totalling weekly figures of movie admission sales.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10780628

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  21. joana (1,784) Says:

    This is corruption. If you have enough money , you can get around the rules. It happens in Asia ever day of the week. No questions would have been asked about how he acquired so many millions. I bet this is the tip of the iceberg. Lots of other convicted felons will have been let into NZ. An inquiry is justified.

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  22. Sublime (41) Says:

    Orewa1

    No, you aren’t being sensitive. Although it might be true, it has no relevance to the story at hand.

    I call things as I see them and I’m no Dotcom apologist. For what it’s worth, I was a journalist in my past life;
    unless there was a direct health-related aspect to the story, I wouldn’t've included the “overweight” detail.

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  23. dime (6,254) Says:

    Orewa – the over weight thing made me laugh. kinda weird.

    you dont see that description used very often. like the mother that got done for torturing her kid last month. i didnt see “the brown, overweight woman”…

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  24. Michael (705) Says:

    Wat Dabney – that made my day, brilliant!

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  25. peterwn (2,165) Says:

    His previous offending was nor really of a nature to deny a residency application. He was however apparently caught with a sawn off shotgun (meeting the legal definition of a pistol). This would now be sufficient IMO to cancel residency especially as he has been a resident for less than two years.

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  26. adamsmith1922 (803) Says:

    you may not like the guy, but NZ Police target a NZ resident because the FBI say so?

    We freeze his assets on the assumption he is guilty because the US say so

    Let us not forget that US actor James Garner fought for many years a lonely battle against the corrupt accounting of Hoolywood studios

    this whole thing smells of politics

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  27. Viking2 (9,489) Says:

    peterwn (1,517) Says:
    January 23rd, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    His previous offending was nor really of a nature to deny a residency application. He was however apparently caught with a sawn off shotgun (meeting the legal definition of a pistol). This would now be sufficient IMO to cancel residency especially as he has been a resident for less than two years.

    UMM, there’s a serious of newes releases about this. Most glorified to benefit the Police and FBI>

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  28. Viking2 (9,489) Says:

    By Roger J Kerr

    New Zealand may well be seen as a small place at the bottom end of the world where one could hide easily and hide ones cash easily.

    So thought Kim Dotcom and his Megaupload mates who were arrested on Friday by the FBI and NZ Police.

    They apparently had part of their cash holdings invested in NZ Government Bonds through an unnamed financial institution.

    Whatever the merits of their copyright legal case, they must have known something about investment – or where just lucky.

    Holding NZ Government Bonds, unhedged to NZD currency fluctuations, has been one stellar winning investment strategy over the past 12 months.

    The yield on our 10-year Government Bonds has reduced from 5.50% to 3.85% and the Kiwi has appreciated against all currencies.

    Plenty of capital gain on a marked-to-market revaluation basis received in that respect. Will the NZ Police sell the impounded bonds along with the marquee cars to realise the impressive gains?

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  29. berend (1,387) Says:

    Chris2: very good points. A single gun, with a rubber bullet I believe. This case stinks.

    Do we need a grand jury to extradite someone in NZ?

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  30. MikeG (301) Says:

    How were the police to know that the gun only had a rubber bullet?

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  31. Sublime (41) Says:

    Berend

    Nope. In the US, a prosecutor hands off an extradition order to the DOJ. They review the documents before sending them
    to the US embassy in the country where the person(s) to be extradited are. It doesn’t have to involve a grand jury.

    Mike G

    Good point; they’d have no way of knowing. If you read up on Kim, it’s said he was the #1 COD3 player in the world.
    Maybe his hand-eye coordination with a 12-gauge gave the police cause for concern … ;)

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  32. Nick K (541) Says:

    The PM said on Newstalk ZB this morning that Germany’s clean slate provision meant the convictions had “expired” and were irrelevant. Regardless, he apparently disclosed them anyway and so they were not hidden (despite their expiration).

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  33. Whaleoil (729) Says:

    A couple of things that some are overlooking…

    One of the firearms measures just 300mm….the legal requirement is 762mm (30 inches). It is a shotgun that cannot be purchased in New Zealand, isn’t sold in NZ, is actually illegal.

    The only people allowed “rubber” munitions are Police, so we have illegal ammunition too.

    Plus the gun was loaded…another breach of the law.

    Then there is the presence of Wayne Tempero…and apparently an illegal handgun…not a nice chap and nothing good comes of his presence.

    I would suggest to you that there is much more to this than has been released.

    Oh and what sort of big girls blouse runs to a “panic” room…g.a.y.

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  34. PaulL (5,197) Says:

    1. Current offending has nothing to do with previous acceptance for citizenship in NZ. So no need to wait for this court case – the question is whether, based on the information available at the time he was granted citizenship that was a reasonable decision, and whether reasonable enquiries were made to get appropriate information. Let’s be honest, the process is pretty much to wave people through – how on earth would we in NZ know if references from Germany are correct? He gave a good story about his youthful indiscretions, we gave him the benefit of the doubt.

    2. Sounds like he’s been doing a bit more than just something that upsets Americans – sounds like he’s been running a pretty serious copyright infringement business. This isn’t some guy with a few movies on his hard drive. Failing to deal with people like this is what leads to the really draconian laws that they’re seeking in the US at the moment.

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  35. Luc Hansen (4,573) Says:

    From Whaleoil

    …not a nice chap and nothing good comes of his presence.

    Freudian slip?

    Anyway, plenty of people have illegal weapons. Being a country boy, I have known quite a few in my time, including my own (late) Dad. So let’s separate that from the copyright case that is currently before the courts.

    Similarly, the residency issue is a red herring – Mr Dotcom was granted residency (I see nothing wrong in granting residency to a talented young man who happens to bring a wad of the folding stuff.)

    And let’s face it, one of our own Knights of the Realm ran off to Ireland (no extradition treaty) just as whispers were becoming louder of possible criminal charges against said Knight.

    So Mr Dotcom wasn’t trying to hide very hard, was he?

    As I understand it, his site provided a platform that was very useful for general purposes, excluding copyright breach, but was open to being used for that, too.

    So he provided an internet highway.

    Just like NZTA provides car highways that are used for criminal purposes, often much more heinous than simple copyright breaches, so perhaps we need to look at how we give NZTA a free ride in aiding and abetting murders and bank robberies.

    And look, the studios all seem to be doing pretty well anyway, catering to the lowest common denominator (Kiwiblog has learned this lesson well :-) ), so maybe the studios should look at how to partner with these clever people and share in the returns – it seems to me that sites like Megauploads have identified a new market and the studios should adapt/adopt, not fight it.

    But, maybe I’m biased. After all, my first real moneymaker, when just in my early twenties, was an illegal bookie operation (pool hall, then pub then phone based) and I do retain a sneaky admiration for such risk takers!

    Although, without doubt, Mr Dotcom is in Looto, sorry, Lotto territory (Lotto 3.0?) with the amount of money involved!

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  36. Viking2 (9,489) Says:

    wonders never cease. I find my self agreeing with Luc.

    http://www.webpronews.com/anonymous-global-blackout-2012-01

    http://www.webpronews.com/anonymous-megaupload-2012-01

    http://www.webpronews.com/soundcloud-hits-10-million-users-2012-01

    http://www.webpronews.com/facebook-relieved-sopa-pipa-delaye-2012-01

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  37. RRM (7,264) Says:

    …(quite legitimate) questions about the process and decision making around his residency approval.

    It’s almost like your mate Winston Peters was onto something, when he was talking about the dodginess of the “Financial Migrants” scheme 7 or 8 years ago, innit?

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  38. KevinH (949) Says:

    @orewa1

    No you are not being oversensitive: ” I have a pretty negative impression of Mr Dotcom.” Kirsty Johnston exposes her bias, uncharacteristic of a print journalist. Maybe she doesn’t like big people.
    Nevertheless Mr Dotcom got his passport because he paid the man: $10 million in government bonds. A normal transaction apparently and one that perhaps appeals to his atavistic instincts.

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  39. Spoon (96) Says:

    @gump: Some article I saw yesterday had his weight at 130kg. “Grossly obese” is probably incorrect – if his height is 2 metres that gives him a BMI of 32.5, only just into the >30 “Obese” category. I’d probably use the phrase “built like a brick shithouse” which seems a lot more correct.

    Regardless, it’s totally unnecessary and inappropriate in the article.

    @orewa1: You say you wonder how she’d feel being called a blonde, tea drinking chicken farmer. These are all positive or neutral attributes – overweight is negative, so it’s not a fair comparison. While obviously I don’t know if these are true, calling her an “overweight journalist”, an “ugly journalist” or even a “slutty journalist” would be more accurate comparisons. I don’t think she’d like that much.

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  40. Mark (1,122) Says:

    @orewa1 but on a positive note she could have some fun describing Gerry Brownly.

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