Shane Jones saying sensible stuff

January 31st, 2012 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Radio NZ reports:

The Party says it might come as a revelation to some that not all Maori are opposed to and oil drilling.

Maori Economic Development spokesperson says there is a fossilised view that Maori aren’t interested or capable of making pragmatic decisions.

While he acknowledges there are been pockets of resistance, Mr Jones says there’s a variety of views – not a monolithic one.

He says oil is the country’s most costly import – a resource within Aotearoa.

What refreshing views from a Labour spokesperson. It would be great to see Labour come out with a policy supporting more use of our natural resources.

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18 Responses to “Shane Jones saying sensible stuff”

  1. polemic (460 comments) says:

    At first read I was Gobsmacked !!

    Here in writing we have a member of the Labour Party speaking about what is practically good for NZ and not what is the ideology good for the party and its members.

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  2. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Straw man stuff.

    Shane Jones constructs an argument that, with his own superlative intelligence, he can demolish with one masterful swipe.

    Well done, Shane.

    It may come as a surprise to mining/drilling extremists, too, that not all Kiwis concerned about the environment are opposed to all drilling and mining.

    What many are opposed to is the free ride allowed the drillers and miners to make a huge mess, then walking away with the profits and leaving the taxpayers and citizens to pick up the tab, whether the cost is financial or environmental.

    I would have thought a blog where many so espouse an extreme free market view would be fully in favor of ensuring externalities are accounted for by the exploiting company!

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  3. DavidC (179 comments) says:

    The Maori Party should be supporting oil and mineral exploration and using the issue as a point of difference to drive a wedge between themselves and Liarbore/Gweens.

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  4. dime (10,109 comments) says:

    the thing is, more mining would probably benefit maori dudes more than anyone else.

    how many maoris are working in perth? qld?

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  5. campit (467 comments) says:

    He says oil is the country’s most costly import – a resource within Aotearoa

    Oil will continue to remain a costly import – it is only if we create a state owned oil company that this will change.

    [DPF: Umm, there is such a thing as private NZ owned companies]

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  6. Spam (588 comments) says:

    What many are opposed to is the free ride allowed the drillers and miners to make a huge mess, then walking away with the profits and leaving the taxpayers and citizens to pick up the tab, whether the cost is financial or environmental.

    There are already a number of stringent environmental requirements for oil & gas mining, both during mining operations (environmental discharge consents etc) and post production (returning the land etc back to farmland or whatever state it was in).

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  7. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,920 comments) says:

    It seems Maori are not at all averse (it’s not adverse, you dumb arses) to selling off assets either. Maybe that’s why not many Bros vote Labour anymore.

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  8. Paulus (2,664 comments) says:

    But, if oil hs to come ashore – across MY FORESHORE AND SEABED, which stretches alongway out to sea.

    Remember – Folloe the Money.

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  9. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Spam

    You overstate your case: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1008/S00040/new-zealand-mining-bonds-hopelessly-small.htm and http://www.nzherald.co.nz/environment/news/article.cfm?c_id=39&objectid=10647628

    An extract from the latter:

    “Caims of clean, green mining are fanciful. Most New Zealand mines are open cast, like the large Waihi gold mine. There, tonnes of rock are crushed into a paste, mixed with cyanide and other chemicals, and all but a tiny fraction is carted to lake-sized toxic tailings dams.

    The potential for environmental disaster is vast. Tailings dams sometimes collapse. Land near mines is prone to erosion, subsidence and can cause flooding. Mine sediment or chemicals get into waterways, destroying natural habitats and killing native birds, fish, frogs and insects”

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  10. tvb (4,512 comments) says:

    John key commands the centre of politics do well that it only leaves lunatic left wing positions for the Labour Party. So jones is Indeed refreshing.

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  11. Spam (588 comments) says:

    “Caims of clean, green mining are fanciful. Most New Zealand mines are open cast, like the large Waihi gold mine. There, tonnes of rock are crushed into a paste, mixed with cyanide and other chemicals, and all but a tiny fraction is carted to lake-sized toxic tailings dams.

    Luc: Sorry, but I specifically said “oil and gas mining”, not open-cast mining.

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  12. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    Of course Shane Jones will say something sensible, he doesn’t have to impress the lunatic left for another three years.

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  13. campit (467 comments) says:

    [DPF: Umm, there is such a thing as private NZ owned companies]

    I doubt there are any NZ companies wanting to single-handedly take the risk in oil exploration. I’m not aware of any recent oil exploration that has been done without the involvement of an international partner.

    The challenge the Government faces is pitching the royalties at the right level. Too high and the profit incentive isn’t there. Too low and the risk is not enough return for NZ, while carrying the environmental risks associated with oil drilling. This challenge could be mitigated if there was state owned oil company involvement, along the lines of the Norwegian model. That way if the royalties were set at the wrong level then it wouldn’t matter so much.

    Regardless, any oil company will seek to get the highest price it can for any oil discovered, which is done by selling on the international market.

    So the upshot of all this is that even if oil is discovered, NZ will still be importing $8bn worth of oil every year. This whole “NZ could be self sufficient” argument is bogus. The only way to reduce this expenditure is to invest in modes of transport that aren’t so reliant on the combustion of oil.

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  14. mister nui (1,030 comments) says:

    Clearly you have no fucking idea campit. I suggest you google both Todd Petroleum and Greymouth Petroleum.

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  15. Viking2 (11,569 comments) says:

    campit (226) Says:
    January 31st, 2012 at 11:38 am

    He says oil is the country’s most costly import – a resource within Aotearoa

    Oil will continue to remain a costly import – it is only if we create a state owned oil company that this will change.

    [DPF: Umm, there is such a thing as private NZ owned companies]
    So the upshot of all this is that even if oil is discovered, NZ will still be importing $8bn worth of oil every year. This whole “NZ could be self sufficient” argument is bogus. The only way to reduce this expenditure is to invest in modes of transport that aren’t so reliant on the combustion of oil.

    Have you bothered to actually chek this out. We have exported as miuch as we have imported for at least 34 years since the TUI and Maari wells started to produce. Its shipped mostly because our refinery cannot use the feedstok although even that is changing. and don’t forget its not all oil. We also are about to restart the second gas train at the methinal plant for making high quality methanol for export.

    18 August 2009 – New Zealand’s oil export earnings reached a record high level in 2008 climbing to third behind only dairying and meat exports.

    Crude oil and condensate production rose 57% to 2.5 million tonnes in the year to December 2008 from 1.6 million tonnes in 2007, according to data obtained from Statistics New Zealand.

    But the value of oil exports in the 2008 calendar year jumped 103% to NZ$2.8 billion from NZ$1.4 billion in 2007.

    The 2008 oil receipts were almost six times the NZ$484 million in oil exports from 2006. Wine exports in 2006 of NZ$610 million easily exceeded that of oil. But last year oil earned three times that of wine’s NZ$903 million.

    Unfortunately I can’t find any up to date numbers. someone may be able to.

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  16. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    @campit
    “The only way to reduce this expenditure is to invest in modes of transport that aren’t so reliant on the combustion of oil.”

    Run cars and trucks on something other than dead dinosaur juice
    How about electricity?
    expensive dirty and limited range
    No more dams
    wind to many NIMBY s
    So no easy increase in supply
    We burn oil or coal now for peaks
    hydrogen In a green’s wet dream
    There are only a FEW insurmountable problems manufacturing at a competitive price viable storage and transport oh and it really likes exploding
    So that leaves fairy dust
    Pity there is not much around

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  17. mister nui (1,030 comments) says:

    I’m not typing on my phone now so will respond in detail….

    campit said:

    I doubt there are any NZ companies wanting to single-handedly take the risk in oil exploration. I’m not aware of any recent oil exploration that has been done without the involvement of an international partner.

    As I said before, google both Todd and Greymouth Petroleum. Are you also saying that NZOG should not be partnering with foreign oil companies in their overseas exploration?

    The challenge the Government faces is pitching the royalties at the right level. Too high and the profit incentive isn’t there. Too low and the risk is not enough return for NZ, while carrying the environmental risks associated with oil drilling. This challenge could be mitigated if there was state owned oil company involvement, along the lines of the Norwegian model. That way if the royalties were set at the wrong level then it wouldn’t matter so much.

    Who gives a fuck about the royalties, not me. It is not where the money and the opportunity of business is created. The liquidity for the country is through the employment of staff and the supporting services industries to the O+G industry. We need to develop export earnings, the way this is done is by building service companies that make money on our exports, such as oil we might export. Those same companies can then expand overseas, winning contracts with overseas companies, thereby growing our foreign earnings.

    You’re a typical lefty who only looks at the short-sighted picture. Look at the bigger long term picture, that ultimately benefits the country as a whole, not your own personal ideology.

    Regardless, any oil company will seek to get the highest price it can for any oil discovered, which is done by selling on the international market.

    Of course and why not? Do you want to set the price they sell it for? Do you want to limit NZ companies, such as NZOG, Todd & Greymouth partnering in their home markets, because the price you set does not make it worth their investment?

    So the upshot of all this is that even if oil is discovered, NZ will still be importing $8bn worth of oil every year. This whole “NZ could be self sufficient” argument is bogus. The only way to reduce this expenditure is to invest in modes of transport that aren’t so reliant on the combustion of oil.

    Absolute fucking bullshit. You have no idea around the balance of trade do you. Are you suggesting that the high quality oil that NZ typically produces should all be put to use locally, when we do not have the industry to use this oil? NZ oil is far too good to be refining into petrol/diesel. We should be exporting our oil to where it is desired and where it can be utilised in a more cost effective process, and importing the low grade crap from Saudi Arabia for refining into petrol/diesel.

    Educate yourself on oil prices buddy.

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  18. Redbaiter (9,609 comments) says:

    What a fucking joke this post would be. If John Key was not such a suckhole to the separatists things would not be anywhere near as bad as what they are.

    The hoops that oil explorers are forced to jump through by racists and separatists and communists claiming to be environmentalists in this miserable fucking commie hole are a disgrace, and Key and his bunch of fat arsed losers ponce about the place saying they are a business friendly government when they are not and it is an outrageous lie to claim so.

    The Nats are a bunch of gutless losers selling NZ productive sector down the drain, caving in to superstition and lies and barbarism in such a cowardly manner they disgust me.

    Y’know what though? Its what fucking New Zealanders deserve. A bunch of shambling dumbfuck losers governed by a collection of cowards and charlatans.

    Never has the saying that people get the government they deserve been shown to be more true.

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