An update needed

February 20th, 2012 at 7:15 pm by David Farrar

From the Forest & Bird website:

Coal is the dirtiest fuel – burning coal is the single largest global source of greenhouse gases, which are causing climate change. Burning coal also causes air pollution which has a direct effect on people’s health.

As well as the carbon released when coal is burnt, trapped methane (another greenhouse gas) is also released when coal is mined. For example ’s planned coal mining over the next 20 years will release trapped methane equivalent to more than all the dairy cows on the West Coast.

Maybe want to now use a different example.

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32 Responses to “An update needed”

  1. Griff (8,149 comments) says:

    Twig and Tweet should stay in the forest
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/vast-methane-plumes-seen-in-arctic-ocean-as-sea-ice-retreats-6276278.html

    One of the greatest fears is that with the disappearance of the Arctic sea ice in summer, and rapidly rising temperatures across the entire Arctic region, which are already melting the Siberian permafrost, the trapped methane could be suddenly released into the atmosphere leading to rapid and severe climate change.”The concentration of atmospheric methane increased unto three times in the past two centuries from 0.7 parts per million to 1.7ppm, and in the Arctic to 1.9ppm. That’s a huge increase, between two and three times, and this has never happened in the history of the planet,

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  2. db.. (86 comments) says:

    “…and this has never happened in the history of the planet,” = bullshit

    db..

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  3. Griff (8,149 comments) says:

    db..
    link?

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  4. pete (416 comments) says:

    I’m glad that you chose such a sensitive and classy way of dealing with this.

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  5. Put it away (2,880 comments) says:

    A large part of the anthopogenic methane rise is due to rice paddies. Hmm what’s happened to the population of Asia over the last couple of centures? Gonna be a hard sell convincing Asia to give up rice, Griff.

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  6. Ross Nixon (559 comments) says:

    Actually, water vapour is is the single largest global source of greenhouse gases. Oh no – how do we make the clouds go away so we can be cooler?

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  7. mikenmild (11,636 comments) says:

    Great, a global warming thread. We don’t have enough of that really.

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  8. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    Climate change? Are people still talking about that? I’m looking forward to dinner parties 4-5 years from now where I can mock my friends about how they believed in that once.

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  9. ben (2,384 comments) says:

    Maybe Forest & Bird want to now use a different example.

    Or stop worrying about greenhouse gas emissions, which appear to be entirely benign.

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  10. Steve (4,587 comments) says:

    Maybe Forest & Bird want to now use a different example.

    Oh, maybe Nuclear is the way.

    NO NO NO don’t say that word. But it has no gas emission other than steam

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  11. db.. (86 comments) says:

    Griff, Do your own research.
    Here is a single event of a scale you may not comprehend but will give you a bibliography to work on from.
    [http://wattsupwiththat.com/tag/permian-triassic-extinction-event/]
    [http://wattsupwiththat.com/tag/siberian-trap/]

    db..

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  12. Griff (8,149 comments) says:

    Sorry watts up with that is to science as fish are to airplanes.
    Try a real science link not to a heartland sponserd spin site

    Try reading this site
    http://www.skepticalscience.com/
    for a more “scientific” view

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  13. ben (2,384 comments) says:

    Griff, it’s just sad, and tired, and boring watching folk like you pass off your nonsense for “science”.

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  14. pete (416 comments) says:

    Actually, water vapour is is the single largest global source of greenhouse gases. Oh no – how do we make the clouds go away so we can be cooler?

    It’s called rain. We could double atmospheric H2O overnight, and it would come back to normal levels in a matter of weeks.

    Water vapour amplifies the effect of atmospheric carbon. Reduce CO2 and CH4 forcing, and the lowered temperature will mean less evaporation.

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  15. db.. (86 comments) says:

    Heh, Quick reader Griff. Follow the bibliography Oh wise one. WattsUpWithThat is just a blog host.

    db..

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  16. Griff (8,149 comments) says:

    also “Griff, Do your own research.” if you want to be taken seriously in debate you need to be willing to back up your assertions with proof
    If you do not you are not worth shit
    The papers you link to point to a slow rise in deaths and have nothing to do with the present sudden rise in methane
    Typical post a link you have not read or have read but are to thick to understand. :roll:

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  17. Griff (8,149 comments) says:

    WattsUpWithThat is just a blog host.

    No wuwt is part of a net work of science denial sites dedicated to spreading doubt and confusion around real science

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  18. Manolo (14,026 comments) says:

    F&B is just another organisation behind every Green Party initiative. These backward-looking neo-Luddites deserve no support.

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  19. mikenmild (11,636 comments) says:

    F&B is our oldest environmental group and we should all be grateful for both its past and current contribution to conservation.

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  20. Griff (8,149 comments) says:

    To labor the point of your stupidity
    from your link
    Their analysis, published today in the Geological Society of America Bulletin, provides strong evidence that Earth’s biggest mass extinction phased in over hundreds of thousands of years. The result of an extremely large volcanic eruption.
    WTF has that got to do with the present rise in methane?

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  21. ben (2,384 comments) says:

    Nobody cares Griff.

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  22. Griff (8,149 comments) says:

    ben
    So you have posted on this because you don’t care
    I guess that is just a reflection of your own futile existence

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  23. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    Thank God people are finally prepared to debate such an important subject. For so long the voice of those who would save us from the weather has been silent.

    Like about 22 hours.

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  24. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Of course the flaw in this argument is the lack of melting at -37 degrees.

    http://www.weatherforecastmap.com/russia/

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  25. Griff (8,149 comments) says:

    nasska
    You think a concern for the environment is going to come from somewhere else
    The Gweens for instance
    Its the destruction of faith in science that I rile against not global warming Global warming is just easy to use because the denial movement is not based on science its spin
    If we had spinners posting on alt med or spirituality they get the same treatment
    You nasska are not adverse to attacking the god bothers You would not wear teach the controversy intelligent design getting traction
    why dis me for attacking science denial
    :sad:

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  26. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    Griff

    I’ve had a layman’s look at both sides of the argument. Normally I’d back scientists but I’ve a niggling suspicion in this case that there’s too much money on offer to guarantee unbiased conclusions.

    Interesting that you brought up the religious nutters because the argument has polarised adherents at both end of the scale in exactly the way a cult would. In five to ten years time there will be enough solid data that there’ll be no need for vague forecasts or conjecture.

    At the moment there’s no fresh subject matter & the debate keeps going round in circles.

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  27. Paul Williams (878 comments) says:

    David, a little insenstive perhaps?

    [DPF: I agree it in insensitive for F&B to still have the reference up, a year later]

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  28. Griff (8,149 comments) says:

    I agree with your comment the debate goes round in circles.
    If there was not a voice from both sides only one can prevail.
    There is a effort on the behalf of climate “skeptics” to astroturf this debate.
    If someone does not actually try to counter this tactic the slow decline in the value given to science will continue.
    There seems to be a near universal rejection on this blogg of the science community involved in any way with present efforts to understand global warming This effort involves nearly all facets of “hard “science and if allowed to go unchecked could set civilization back centuries

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  29. Deane Jessep (74 comments) says:

    Does anyone else think that this whole thread is a perfectly ironic example of why forest and bird forgot to change the example from Pike River? After a while both sides probably just forgot it was there.

    I agree with the approach David, they probably need the shock to snap out of rhetorically circling long enough to change it.

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  30. pete (416 comments) says:

    Posting pictures of underage girls, in an attempt to imply that Mallard is creepy.
    Trying to score political points off Pike River, and then accusing Forest and Bird of being insensitive.

    Not having a good day are we?

    Are we allowed to use the h-word here?

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  31. Put it away (2,880 comments) says:

    pete – describing pictures of girls who’re fairly obviously late teens as “underage”….not having a good day are you Pete?

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  32. Paulus (2,657 comments) says:

    Please stop the World’s Volcanoes from erupting –

    they are having daily more effect on the atmosphere than all known human evolution.

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