An update needed
February 20th, 2012 at 7:15 pm by David FarrarFrom the Forest & Bird website:
Coal is the dirtiest fuel – burning coal is the single largest global source of greenhouse gases, which are causing climate change. Burning coal also causes air pollution which has a direct effect on people’s health.
As well as the carbon released when coal is burnt, trapped methane (another greenhouse gas) is also released when coal is mined. For example Pike River Coal’s planned coal mining over the next 20 years will release trapped methane equivalent to more than all the dairy cows on the West Coast.
Maybe Forest & Bird want to now use a different example.
Related posts:
- Solid Energy bidding for Pike River
- Expert says Pike River still unsafe
- Back Benches 26 October 2011
- Damien says Solid Energy to blame for Pike River!
February 20th, 2012 at 7:33 pm
Twig and Tweet should stay in the forest
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/vast-methane-plumes-seen-in-arctic-ocean-as-sea-ice-retreats-6276278.html
One of the greatest fears is that with the disappearance of the Arctic sea ice in summer, and rapidly rising temperatures across the entire Arctic region, which are already melting the Siberian permafrost, the trapped methane could be suddenly released into the atmosphere leading to rapid and severe climate change.”The concentration of atmospheric methane increased unto three times in the past two centuries from 0.7 parts per million to 1.7ppm, and in the Arctic to 1.9ppm. That’s a huge increase, between two and three times, and this has never happened in the history of the planet,
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 7:40 pm
“…and this has never happened in the history of the planet,” = bullshit
db..
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 7:49 pm
db..
Vote:link?
February 20th, 2012 at 7:57 pm
I’m glad that you chose such a sensitive and classy way of dealing with this.
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 8:03 pm
A large part of the anthopogenic methane rise is due to rice paddies. Hmm what’s happened to the population of Asia over the last couple of centures? Gonna be a hard sell convincing Asia to give up rice, Griff.
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 8:03 pm
Actually, water vapour is is the single largest global source of greenhouse gases. Oh no – how do we make the clouds go away so we can be cooler?
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 8:10 pm
Great, a global warming thread. We don’t have enough of that really.
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 8:19 pm
Climate change? Are people still talking about that? I’m looking forward to dinner parties 4-5 years from now where I can mock my friends about how they believed in that once.
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 8:21 pm
Maybe Forest & Bird want to now use a different example.
Or stop worrying about greenhouse gas emissions, which appear to be entirely benign.
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 8:42 pm
Maybe Forest & Bird want to now use a different example.
Oh, maybe Nuclear is the way.
NO NO NO don’t say that word. But it has no gas emission other than steam
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 8:51 pm
Griff, Do your own research.
Here is a single event of a scale you may not comprehend but will give you a bibliography to work on from.
[http://wattsupwiththat.com/tag/permian-triassic-extinction-event/]
[http://wattsupwiththat.com/tag/siberian-trap/]
db..
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 8:57 pm
Sorry watts up with that is to science as fish are to airplanes.
Try a real science link not to a heartland sponserd spin site
Try reading this site
Vote:http://www.skepticalscience.com/
for a more “scientific” view
February 20th, 2012 at 9:06 pm
Griff, it’s just sad, and tired, and boring watching folk like you pass off your nonsense for “science”.
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 9:07 pm
It’s called rain. We could double atmospheric H2O overnight, and it would come back to normal levels in a matter of weeks.
Water vapour amplifies the effect of atmospheric carbon. Reduce CO2 and CH4 forcing, and the lowered temperature will mean less evaporation.
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 9:09 pm
Heh, Quick reader Griff. Follow the bibliography Oh wise one. WattsUpWithThat is just a blog host.
db..
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 9:09 pm
also “Griff, Do your own research.” if you want to be taken seriously in debate you need to be willing to back up your assertions with proof
Vote:If you do not you are not worth shit
The papers you link to point to a slow rise in deaths and have nothing to do with the present sudden rise in methane
Typical post a link you have not read or have read but are to thick to understand.
February 20th, 2012 at 9:12 pm
WattsUpWithThat is just a blog host.
No wuwt is part of a net work of science denial sites dedicated to spreading doubt and confusion around real science
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 9:13 pm
F&B is just another organisation behind every Green Party initiative. These backward-looking neo-Luddites deserve no support.
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 9:20 pm
F&B is our oldest environmental group and we should all be grateful for both its past and current contribution to conservation.
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 9:24 pm
To labor the point of your stupidity
Vote:from your link
Their analysis, published today in the Geological Society of America Bulletin, provides strong evidence that Earth’s biggest mass extinction phased in over hundreds of thousands of years. The result of an extremely large volcanic eruption.
WTF has that got to do with the present rise in methane?
February 20th, 2012 at 9:26 pm
Nobody cares Griff.
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 9:30 pm
ben
Vote:So you have posted on this because you don’t care
I guess that is just a reflection of your own futile existence
February 20th, 2012 at 9:34 pm
Thank God people are finally prepared to debate such an important subject. For so long the voice of those who would save us from the weather has been silent.
Like about 22 hours.
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
Of course the flaw in this argument is the lack of melting at -37 degrees.
http://www.weatherforecastmap.com/russia/
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 10:00 pm
nasska
Vote:You think a concern for the environment is going to come from somewhere else
The Gweens for instance
Its the destruction of faith in science that I rile against not global warming Global warming is just easy to use because the denial movement is not based on science its spin
If we had spinners posting on alt med or spirituality they get the same treatment
You nasska are not adverse to attacking the god bothers You would not wear teach the controversy intelligent design getting traction
why dis me for attacking science denial
February 20th, 2012 at 10:16 pm
Griff
I’ve had a layman’s look at both sides of the argument. Normally I’d back scientists but I’ve a niggling suspicion in this case that there’s too much money on offer to guarantee unbiased conclusions.
Interesting that you brought up the religious nutters because the argument has polarised adherents at both end of the scale in exactly the way a cult would. In five to ten years time there will be enough solid data that there’ll be no need for vague forecasts or conjecture.
At the moment there’s no fresh subject matter & the debate keeps going round in circles.
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
David, a little insenstive perhaps?
[DPF: I agree it in insensitive for F&B to still have the reference up, a year later]
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 10:51 pm
I agree with your comment the debate goes round in circles.
Vote:If there was not a voice from both sides only one can prevail.
There is a effort on the behalf of climate “skeptics” to astroturf this debate.
If someone does not actually try to counter this tactic the slow decline in the value given to science will continue.
There seems to be a near universal rejection on this blogg of the science community involved in any way with present efforts to understand global warming This effort involves nearly all facets of “hard “science and if allowed to go unchecked could set civilization back centuries
February 20th, 2012 at 11:32 pm
Does anyone else think that this whole thread is a perfectly ironic example of why forest and bird forgot to change the example from Pike River? After a while both sides probably just forgot it was there.
I agree with the approach David, they probably need the shock to snap out of rhetorically circling long enough to change it.
Vote:February 20th, 2012 at 11:42 pm
Posting pictures of underage girls, in an attempt to imply that Mallard is creepy.
Trying to score political points off Pike River, and then accusing Forest and Bird of being insensitive.
Not having a good day are we?
Are we allowed to use the h-word here?
Vote:February 21st, 2012 at 6:59 am
pete – describing pictures of girls who’re fairly obviously late teens as “underage”….not having a good day are you Pete?
Vote:February 21st, 2012 at 9:52 am
Please stop the World’s Volcanoes from erupting –
they are having daily more effect on the atmosphere than all known human evolution.
Vote: