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	<title>Comments on: Could this have been prevented?</title>
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	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: RRM</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929720</link>
		<dc:creator>RRM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 21:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929720</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dangerous driving causing death should be a STRIKE offence.

New Zealanders need to wake up to the idea that the right to use a car on the public roads comes with a responsibility to use it sensibly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dangerous driving causing death should be a STRIKE offence.</p>
<p>New Zealanders need to wake up to the idea that the right to use a car on the public roads comes with a responsibility to use it sensibly.</p>
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		<title>By: wreck1080</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929710</link>
		<dc:creator>wreck1080</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 21:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929710</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just a few posts ago was a discussion about some guy who had 140 odd convictions. 

40 is good behaviour.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a few posts ago was a discussion about some guy who had 140 odd convictions. </p>
<p>40 is good behaviour.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929641</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929641</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This bloke should be away for 10 years.  If he cannot control himself then put him in a place where he is not going to harm anyone else.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This bloke should be away for 10 years.  If he cannot control himself then put him in a place where he is not going to harm anyone else.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929546</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 06:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929546</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[41 previous?
This person will never stop. The JUDGES will keep sucking up to keep the jails less crowded.
More Jails and longer harder time (and pink underpants)
That is where I want my TAXES to go]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>41 previous?<br />
This person will never stop. The JUDGES will keep sucking up to keep the jails less crowded.<br />
More Jails and longer harder time (and pink underpants)<br />
That is where I want my TAXES to go</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Johnboy</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929499</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 04:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929499</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s &quot;just a lovely story nasska&quot;  as Scotty would have said to Barry, but when you read the shit that passes for wise decisions by our so called judiciary these days you just want to sit down and cry really.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s &#8220;just a lovely story nasska&#8221;  as Scotty would have said to Barry, but when you read the shit that passes for wise decisions by our so called judiciary these days you just want to sit down and cry really.</p>
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		<title>By: nasska</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929496</link>
		<dc:creator>nasska</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 03:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929496</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Johnboy

It&#039;s nearly that good now.  A few years ago a young bugger I knew got caught drink driving three times in five years.  He was a shocker when he got a few on board &amp; it was sheer luck that he never killed anyone.  Offence three saw his license cancelled indefinitely.....&quot;at the pleasure of the Secretary of Transport&quot; was the wording from recollection.

At this stage he realised that in Barry Crump&#039;s immortal words, he was &quot;a fully paid up member of Alcoholics Anonymous.  In the space of a few years he&#039;d lost his missus, kids, house &amp; finally his job.  Finally he got his shit together &amp; gave up the grog.

Then the fun started...he was a fully qualified plumber &amp; drainlayer so he could get work but had to have a license.  He had to apply to be considered for re application, he had to attend drug &amp; alcohol counselling &amp; had to make himself available to give a blood sample at any hour of the day or night for six months.  One test was actually taken at his parents&#039; home at 11.30pm.  At the end of this he had to do the full driving test same as he had at age 16.

He&#039;s still on top of things but if &quot;His Honour&quot; is having a bad day when you are getting sentenced for drink driving offences your life ain&#039;t going to be easy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johnboy</p>
<p>It&#8217;s nearly that good now.  A few years ago a young bugger I knew got caught drink driving three times in five years.  He was a shocker when he got a few on board &amp; it was sheer luck that he never killed anyone.  Offence three saw his license cancelled indefinitely&#8230;..&#8221;at the pleasure of the Secretary of Transport&#8221; was the wording from recollection.</p>
<p>At this stage he realised that in Barry Crump&#8217;s immortal words, he was &#8220;a fully paid up member of Alcoholics Anonymous.  In the space of a few years he&#8217;d lost his missus, kids, house &amp; finally his job.  Finally he got his shit together &amp; gave up the grog.</p>
<p>Then the fun started&#8230;he was a fully qualified plumber &amp; drainlayer so he could get work but had to have a license.  He had to apply to be considered for re application, he had to attend drug &amp; alcohol counselling &amp; had to make himself available to give a blood sample at any hour of the day or night for six months.  One test was actually taken at his parents&#8217; home at 11.30pm.  At the end of this he had to do the full driving test same as he had at age 16.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s still on top of things but if &#8220;His Honour&#8221; is having a bad day when you are getting sentenced for drink driving offences your life ain&#8217;t going to be easy.</p>
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		<title>By: GPT1</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929490</link>
		<dc:creator>GPT1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 03:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How does his past history raise a charge dangerous driving by failing to give way? 

Peter - s65 of the Land Transport Act provides for indefinate disqualification of repeat drink drivers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How does his past history raise a charge dangerous driving by failing to give way? </p>
<p>Peter &#8211; s65 of the Land Transport Act provides for indefinate disqualification of repeat drink drivers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Johnboy</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929486</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 03:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929486</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cut their hands off for the second offence. 

Hard to start the wheels and steer it with your wrists.

Sharia law has a few good points! :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cut their hands off for the second offence. </p>
<p>Hard to start the wheels and steer it with your wrists.</p>
<p>Sharia law has a few good points! <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: peterwn</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929481</link>
		<dc:creator>peterwn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 03:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929481</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anyone who meets the threshhold of a conviction for dangerous driving causing death also meets the threshhold for manslaughter. 
See S156 Crimes Act
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM329297.html?search=ts_act_crimes+act_resel&amp;p=1#DLM329297

If you do not fulfil this duty resulting in death it is manslaughter.

Apparently the &#039;Dangerous Driving Causing Death&#039; was introduced following the reluctance of some juries to convict for manslaughter.

The police use a &#039;points&#039; system with &#039;points&#039; being allocated for aggravating factors in a &#039;Dangerous Driving Causing Death&#039;. If over so many points they lay a manslaughter charge.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who meets the threshhold of a conviction for dangerous driving causing death also meets the threshhold for manslaughter.<br />
See S156 Crimes Act<br />
<a href="http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM329297.html?search=ts_act_crimes+act_resel&#038;p=1#DLM329297" rel="nofollow">http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM329297.html?search=ts_act_crimes+act_resel&#038;p=1#DLM329297</a></p>
<p>If you do not fulfil this duty resulting in death it is manslaughter.</p>
<p>Apparently the &#8216;Dangerous Driving Causing Death&#8217; was introduced following the reluctance of some juries to convict for manslaughter.</p>
<p>The police use a &#8216;points&#8217; system with &#8216;points&#8217; being allocated for aggravating factors in a &#8216;Dangerous Driving Causing Death&#8217;. If over so many points they lay a manslaughter charge.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929335</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 23:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929335</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@eszett - Hmmm, I did mean police car, not motor car. (My mistake)  There would be no restriction on being a passenger or using public transport.  The police officers would be able to see if the vehicle has more than one person and make a judgement to pull it over. If they were directed to a bus they wouldn&#039;t even bother check it out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@eszett &#8211; Hmmm, I did mean police car, not motor car. (My mistake)  There would be no restriction on being a passenger or using public transport.  The police officers would be able to see if the vehicle has more than one person and make a judgement to pull it over. If they were directed to a bus they wouldn&#8217;t even bother check it out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: eszett</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929327</link>
		<dc:creator>eszett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929327</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Surely the technology exists to have a person wear a ankle bracelet that would alert any passing motor car that the driver is banned. Would only activate if traveling over a certain speed (like 30km/h) and would direct the police to the car so they can check who the driver is.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That would mean he can&#039;t be a passenger in a car or use public transport.

How about alcohol breath testers that don&#039;t allow you to start your car if you fail them? For recidivist drunk drivers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Surely the technology exists to have a person wear a ankle bracelet that would alert any passing motor car that the driver is banned. Would only activate if traveling over a certain speed (like 30km/h) and would direct the police to the car so they can check who the driver is.</p></blockquote>
<p>That would mean he can&#8217;t be a passenger in a car or use public transport.</p>
<p>How about alcohol breath testers that don&#8217;t allow you to start your car if you fail them? For recidivist drunk drivers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tas</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929325</link>
		<dc:creator>tas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[41 previous convictions. Twice disqualified. Why was this ticking timebomb not defused?

Who was the judge that gave him another slap on the wrist for conviction #41? He or she should be sacked and possibly put on trial if he or she didn&#039;t use the maximum power of the law to prevent this fatality. The same goes for the judges that did next to nothing after conviction #40, #39, #38, #37 etc.

In any case the system needs to change to deal with cases like this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>41 previous convictions. Twice disqualified. Why was this ticking timebomb not defused?</p>
<p>Who was the judge that gave him another slap on the wrist for conviction #41? He or she should be sacked and possibly put on trial if he or she didn&#8217;t use the maximum power of the law to prevent this fatality. The same goes for the judges that did next to nothing after conviction #40, #39, #38, #37 etc.</p>
<p>In any case the system needs to change to deal with cases like this.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929321</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Surely the technology exists to have a person wear a ankle bracelet that would alert any passing motor car that the driver is banned. Would only activate if traveling over a certain speed (like 30km/h) and would direct the police to the car so they can check who the driver is.

Regardless, we wouldn&#039;t tolerate a person who repeatedly got drunk and went round discharging a shotgun at random - but we seem to tolerate that type of behaviour if the weapon is a motor vehicle. Repeat drunk drivers may need help, but that doesn&#039;t mean I should be exposed to the deadly consequences of their choices.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely the technology exists to have a person wear a ankle bracelet that would alert any passing motor car that the driver is banned. Would only activate if traveling over a certain speed (like 30km/h) and would direct the police to the car so they can check who the driver is.</p>
<p>Regardless, we wouldn&#8217;t tolerate a person who repeatedly got drunk and went round discharging a shotgun at random &#8211; but we seem to tolerate that type of behaviour if the weapon is a motor vehicle. Repeat drunk drivers may need help, but that doesn&#8217;t mean I should be exposed to the deadly consequences of their choices.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Than</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929320</link>
		<dc:creator>Than</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I&#039;d be in favour of these changes, unfortunately I don&#039;t think they&#039;d help much. This guy is clearly happy to ignore the road laws when it suits him. A lifetime (or indefinite) ban from driving would just be one more added to the list. He&#039;d get caught every couple of years; add another year or more for the legal process, he&#039;d only be in jail for 3 months out of every 36. 

I think it would be more effective to tighten up vehicle sale and ownership laws - make it illegal to sell a car to somebody without a valid drivers licence. Vehicles are potentially very dangerous objects (more so than firearms) and they should be treated as such.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I&#8217;d be in favour of these changes, unfortunately I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;d help much. This guy is clearly happy to ignore the road laws when it suits him. A lifetime (or indefinite) ban from driving would just be one more added to the list. He&#8217;d get caught every couple of years; add another year or more for the legal process, he&#8217;d only be in jail for 3 months out of every 36. </p>
<p>I think it would be more effective to tighten up vehicle sale and ownership laws &#8211; make it illegal to sell a car to somebody without a valid drivers licence. Vehicles are potentially very dangerous objects (more so than firearms) and they should be treated as such.</p>
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		<title>By: BlueGriffon</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929317</link>
		<dc:creator>BlueGriffon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Laws are for the law abiding, the underclass don&#039;t care about them.  You can license drivers, license firearms, microchip dogs, register cars, have alcohol limits, impose speed limits etc.... but there is a feral underclass that don&#039;t give a monkeys about any of them.

They break laws over and over and over again, get fines wiped and then judges are sympathetic towards them.
Harder judges may be a good start.

Maybe we need council controlled local &#039;county&#039; prisons where these people can be put away for 90 days or so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Laws are for the law abiding, the underclass don&#8217;t care about them.  You can license drivers, license firearms, microchip dogs, register cars, have alcohol limits, impose speed limits etc&#8230;. but there is a feral underclass that don&#8217;t give a monkeys about any of them.</p>
<p>They break laws over and over and over again, get fines wiped and then judges are sympathetic towards them.<br />
Harder judges may be a good start.</p>
<p>Maybe we need council controlled local &#8216;county&#8217; prisons where these people can be put away for 90 days or so.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929312</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This again seems to come back to the criminal being the victim mentality that was discussed in detail a few days ago on here.  We give criminals every chance to offend again and kill innocent people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This again seems to come back to the criminal being the victim mentality that was discussed in detail a few days ago on here.  We give criminals every chance to offend again and kill innocent people.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929310</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929310</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;The first is that after a certain number of offences, you face a lifetime ban from driving. &lt;/i&gt;

Or demerits to cater for different levels of offence.

And rather than a lifetime ban I suggest making it an indefinite ban until you can prove you have changed enough to be considered safe enough. It allows for people overcoming factors like unaddressed alcoholism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The first is that after a certain number of offences, you face a lifetime ban from driving. </i></p>
<p>Or demerits to cater for different levels of offence.</p>
<p>And rather than a lifetime ban I suggest making it an indefinite ban until you can prove you have changed enough to be considered safe enough. It allows for people overcoming factors like unaddressed alcoholism.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tristanb</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929309</link>
		<dc:creator>tristanb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The judge:
&quot;It’s hard not to be sympathetic to the situation you find yourself in&quot;

Umm, it&#039;s not that hard. I&#039;m completely unsympathetic to the arsehole. These people aren&#039;t poor unfortunate souls that humanity has abandoned, they&#039;re nasty selfish and arrogant bastards who have been offered numerous chances and will never change. It&#039;s a pity he didn&#039;t kill himself in the crash.

The fact it was only &quot;a matter of time&quot; would have been apparent, probably, after the 2nd or 3rd driving conviction. He should have been disqualified for life early on, and when inevitably caught driving while disqualified locked up each time - each new offence should have a longer sentence until the fucker either learns, or is kept confined in jail and off the roads.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The judge:<br />
&#8220;It’s hard not to be sympathetic to the situation you find yourself in&#8221;</p>
<p>Umm, it&#8217;s not that hard. I&#8217;m completely unsympathetic to the arsehole. These people aren&#8217;t poor unfortunate souls that humanity has abandoned, they&#8217;re nasty selfish and arrogant bastards who have been offered numerous chances and will never change. It&#8217;s a pity he didn&#8217;t kill himself in the crash.</p>
<p>The fact it was only &#8220;a matter of time&#8221; would have been apparent, probably, after the 2nd or 3rd driving conviction. He should have been disqualified for life early on, and when inevitably caught driving while disqualified locked up each time &#8211; each new offence should have a longer sentence until the fucker either learns, or is kept confined in jail and off the roads.</p>
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		<title>By: tvb</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/could_this_have_been_prevented.html/comment-page-1#comment-929306</link>
		<dc:creator>tvb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=59666#comment-929306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do not know what to do about people like this who have an appalling history of criminal driving short of either preventive detention or having laws that will be a huge burden to people who have a good driving record.  It is much much easier for people to get access to cars and a handful are dangerous behind the wheel.  I am stumped, but perhaps we could severely curb the freedoms of people who pose a serious threat to road safety.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not know what to do about people like this who have an appalling history of criminal driving short of either preventive detention or having laws that will be a huge burden to people who have a good driving record.  It is much much easier for people to get access to cars and a handful are dangerous behind the wheel.  I am stumped, but perhaps we could severely curb the freedoms of people who pose a serious threat to road safety.</p>
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