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142 Responses to “General Debate 14 February 2012”
He’s proposing that dividends be taxed as ordinary income rather than 15% in 2013 – *If* Obama is still president and he has majorities in the house and senate. And Romney will find this policy very hard to attack because it would look like self interest if he does.
Amazing – and I imagine the vitriol from the GW freaks will start very very soon. Given the latest NASA findings that shows the earth has not warmed now for 10 years, where to from here for the alarmist morons?
I wonder if this means that there is now no prospect at all of an All Black, high-profile businessmen or other ego-inflated person getting name suppression. Replace “junior practitioner” with “club player”; “cleaner” or “sickness beneficiary” and then tried to rationalise some of the orders that have been made in recent times.
“Body Blow To German Global Warming Movement! Major Media Outlets Unload On “CO2 Lies!”
By P Gosselin on 6. February 2012
Page 2 story in Bild today! The first of a series.
“THE CO2 LIES … pure fear-mongering … should we blindly trust the experts?”
That’s what Germany’s leading daily Bild (see photo) wrote in its print and online editions today, on the very day that renowned publisher Hoffmann & Campe officially released a skeptic book – one written by a prominent socialist and environmental figure.
This is huge. More than I ever could have possibly imagined. And more is coming in the days ahead! The Bild piece was just the first of a series.
Mark this as the date that Germany’s global warming movement took a massive body blow.
Today, not one, but two of Germany’s most widely read news media published comprehensive skeptical climate science articles in their print and online editions, coinciding with the release of a major climate skeptical book, Die kalte Sonne (The Cold Sun).
Germany has now plunged into raucus discord on the heated topic of climate change
What has set it all off? One of the fathers of Germany’s modern green movement, Professor Dr. Fritz Vahrenholt, a social democrat and green activist, decided to author a climate science skeptical book together with geologist/paleontologist Dr. Sebastian Lüning. Vahrenholt’s skepticism started when he was asked to review an IPCC report on renewable energy. He found hundreds of errors. When he pointed them out, IPCC officials simply brushed them aside. Stunned, he asked himself, “Is this the way they approached the climate assessment reports?”
Vahrenholt decided to do some digging. His colleague Dr. Lüning also gave him a copy of Andrew Montford’s The Hockey Stick Illusion. He was horrified by the sloppiness and deception he found. Persuaded by Hoffmann & Campe, he and Lüning decided to write the book. Die kalte Sonne cites 800 sources and has over 80 charts and figures. It examines and summarizes the latest science.
Conclusion: climate catastrophe is called off
The science was hyped. The book started hitting the bookshops today and has already hit no. 1 on the Amazon.de list for environment books. Indications show that it will climb very high in the overall bestseller charts. It’s published by a renowned publishing house and is now sending shock waves through the German climate science establishment. The first printing will produce 20,000 copies. I expect they will sell out rather quickly.
Today Germany’s national tabloid Bild (which has a whopping circulation of 16 million) devoted half of page 2 on an article called:
THE CO2 LIE
Renowned team of scientists claim the climate catastrophe is fear-mongering by politics“
The widely read Bild will follow with the rest of the series in the days ahead. In part I today Bild presents “What the IPCC of the UN doesn’t tell you.” Bild asks “what if the IPCC is wrong? Can we really blindly trust these experts? Are they really independent?”
Bild then writes:
The phenomenal prognoses of heat from the IPCC are pure fear-mongering.”
The Bild series is sure to cause radical environmentalists to seethe and lash out. Expect an all-out assault in the days and weeks ahead. Already the reaction from activists has been swift and virulent – though they have yet to read the book.
They never wanted the debate – and now the dam has broken
And the floods of skepticism are sweeping over the country. Worse, Germany’s flagship weekly news magazine Der Spiegel today also featured a 4-page exclusive interview with Vahrenholt, where he repeated that the IPCC has ignored a large part of climate science and that IPCC scientists exaggerated the impact of CO2 on climate. Vahrenholt said that by extending the known natural cycles of the past into the future, and taking CO2′s real impact into effect, we should expect a few tenths of a degree of cooling.
At a press conference today in Berlin, Vahrenholt, Lüning and publisher Hoffmann & Campe introduced the book and answered reporters’ questions. When asked why Hoffmann & Campe decided to publish “such a book”, the spokesman simply answered that the time is right – and there’s a real audience for the book. Even the weather timing was right! Germany is now experiencing it’s worst cold snap in 26 years. That makes it hard to deny lack of warming.
It needs to be pointed out Vahrenholt and Lüning are not skeptics; they are lukewarmers who have not been able to find any evidence of a coming climate catastrophe. They believe that man should switch to renewables, but do so in a rational manner: “Work fast, but don’t hurry …..”
But one assumes that Chrissie the Wussie believes that he/she knows better
Why am I surprised Scott – playing the man not the ball yet again. It matters not a jot that it was Bild, could have been Murdochs Sun, they are merely highlighting the findings of a Green Socialist. Even they are now realising the charade cannot be continued.
By all means lets go clean energy, but we dont need the incessant wailing and sky is falling shit. Battle over, and soon the war. Youve lost.
Given the latest NASA findings that shows the earth has not warmed now for 10 years, where to from here for the alarmist morons?
I guess scientists and NASA will continue to monitor climate and look for more indicators of what is happening and why.
Why is this one NASA report supposedly the gospel when others that don’t fit the preachings of one side or the other are dissed?
If this particular report is accurate (and many others aren’t) the earth has generally been in a warming trend since the Little Ice Age it has never been a linear increase. A potential decade or more long pause should hardly be a surprise. It’s quite feasible a minor cooling cycle is holding the trend level for a while, once that cycle is over the warming trend could continue. Or not.
Richard29 It is the third time Garrett – ACT’s former law and order spokesman who championed the three strikes law – has been convicted of breaking the law.
He has a previous conviction for assault in Tonga in 2002 and was discharged without conviction three years later for stealing the identity of a dead child to obtain a passport.
OK, three offences, but apparently not three convictions.
Of course, there is always the distinct possibility that Richard29 is simply a troll with no intention of contributing to the debate and who gets his jollyies by making sarcastic comments. He and Ross may well be related.
Same old Scott Chris, attacking the messenger. He’s not interested in views being expressed in the book – which he will never bother to read by the way (in translation, of course). He’s comfortable in his closed mind.
SC is quite entitled to believe what he wants, it’s a free world. But don’t let us be fooled that he’s ever prepared to engage in debate. He knows it all.
Police are quoted as “Mr McGurk said police were pleased to have a high level of support from locals but he urged people not to place themselves at risk.”
My opinion is that if we have a society full of people who are not prepared to do this, it would be a pretty crappy society. People should be urged to help, or at least not discouraged/given an excuse not to help. Little shitmongers like those involved in this case do not deserve to be left alone to do their crimes.
All I’m saying is that DPF runs a political blog. He posts umpteen times a day on a range of political topics. He’s dedicated many many posts to the likes of Phillip Field and that that ginger guy from Labour (can’t remember the name at the moment) including multiple posts after they had left parliament.
This is a guy who was justice spokesperson for the governments coalition partner and drove the implementation of a three strikes law and he has now been in front of the courts on his third criminal charge (as people have said above it’s his second conviction). There is a certain hypocrisy in that.
I’m not interested in punishing Garrett – he has plead guilty and is taking the punishment the courts have ordered for him.
All I am saying is that if this were a Labour Green or NZ first MP it is inconceivable that DPF would not post on it. The reason I think this is notable is that this blog generally makes a pretence of balance (and in some respects succeeds in that) but in this case he is almost certain to remain silent.
It’s great the Police are finally getting the chance to ‘have their say’ by presenting their evidence for the Urewera accusation. They have been bound by silence, so that idiots like Minto have had the stage to make all sorts of erroneous falsehoods and accusation against the Police and others without the ability to put their side.
If the Police case was a debacle, that will come out; but I suspect not. There was something very smelly in Urewera Denmark. This will be quite an eye opener for NZ; and we should not treat it lightly or as irrelevant, after the actions of one militarised disaffectionte in Norway.
And is anyone says “colonial oppression” I will puke.
Your obsession is showing. You need to get a life.
Face facts: the governments of the world have delayed any concerted action on climate change for a decade or more. The delay is not because of any questions about the science, it’s about political will and our democracies have now shown the ultimate flaw in what was purported to be the ultimate system of government.
The flaw? It’s the elections, stupid!.
You should be marshalling your forces towards getting the government to drop our pathetic ETS scheme – the Aussies are going to can theirs next year, or earlier, when Abbott becomes PM – and this will be a very good thing for the climate eventually because when the shit really does start to hit the fan governments won’t have Cap and Trade/ETS to hide behind – everyone will know it’s too late for that!
But I will tell you now, the price we may pay will be a power grab by extreme right-wing authoritarians, funded by the 0.01%, justified by TINA, the whore for every purpose (as Greeks are finding out).
Unless the revolution arrives.
Now, where is my trusty Lee Enfield 303? I vaguely remember loaning it to a Maori mate. I wonder if I can get it back?
Yeah whatever Luc. To be honest I just post this stuff for shits and giggles. I’m happy just knowing that carbon prices are on the floor and there’s no chance of multi-trillion dollar carbon exchanges getting any traction.
I have nothing to personally complain about, I’m happy with the way this whole AGW thing is fizzling out, but I still like arguing.
And really, what’s the difference between a power grab by extreme right wing authoritarians and a power grab by extreme left wing authoritarians?
But to cool things down we could make this the last post on how the earth is rapidly heating due to lazy extravagant people driving around in gas guzzlers and wimps using their heat pumps too much both summer and winter – it doesn’t take much more effort than pushing a button to put a jesrey on or take it off you know.
There’s no point in getting into a tiz about who’s behind the conspiracy to fund anyone who’s willing to stick their heads in the sand as they rattle out nays on their keyboards while conglomerate multinational companies suppress highly efficient new energy technologies so they can spin out their oil profits for as long as possible.
So let’s just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
AGW is not fizzling out. In fact, it’s fizzing along unabated and believe it or not, I don’t even think the skeptics have much to do with the inaction. It’s all politics, especially as regards the National Interest of the US.
Now then, I’ve been looking for a comment about those scumbag Syrian rebels hiding in civilian areas and bringing said civilians under fire from the legitimate government attempting merely to restore order and prevent armed insurrection.
How about dissing the risible high dudgeon of the Israeli government when adversaries engage in the time honoured game of tit for tat, after said government makes a point of happily bragging about its own terrorist successes?
Did I hear William Hague expressing how he was “shocked and appalled” at the murder of Iranian civilian nuclear scientists?
Changing the subject ,I see that the Herald have taken Misery Misa back on on Monday.
I thought they had more balls but no.
And Tuesday, that failed one time UK Labour MP is pontificating again.
Gaw’d spare us from their misery.
“And it seems to me that devoting some time and effort to encouraging those we know who are super rich to invest in perhaps even establishing a new satellite TV channel – it’s not an expensive thing and then get a few Jo Novas and Andrew Bolts to go on and do the commentating every day but keep the news straight, fair and balanced, as they do on Fox, that would break through and give to Australia, as it has for America, a proper dose of free market thinking”…
“The mining industry in Australia already wields incredible power, made obvious following the success of campaigns to water down the resource tax and carbon price, so we’re fighting to protect our media and stay this growing influence. We’re concerned about what’s motivating this buy-up of Australian media and what the mining industry might expect in return for their investment. With mining bosses in charge, how much frank and fearless investigation will our journalist be allowed to pursue?”
Right now www is not media for the masses.
Owning print and tv media has no comparison in self published.org
They are talking about purchasing and controlling media with as great an impact in New Zealand as sky
Control of the sheep
“The lefties start out with the common man’s interests at heart but they usually become corrupted.”
More correctly, the left starts out with the conceit that they know what is best for everyone else, to the extent that they actually have a moral duty to strip us of our freedoms and coercively force us to comply with their “enlightened” ideals.
The right, by contrast, will allow everyone to pursue their own happiness according to their own lights; where or not we happen to agree with them.
That’s a lefty talking right there. It’s this contempt for everyone else which implies to the lefty that we are all so stupid that he must take away our freedoms for our own good and tell us what to do.
Griff – controlling the media? You’ve created a straw man yourself.
Think about this – does the existence of Fox News count as controlling the media? Nobody has to watch it.
Does the existence of TV3 count as controlling the media? Nobody has to watch it.
Does the existence of Radio NZ count as controlling the media? Nobody has to listen to it.
“Mark Lynas, a campaigner who has been a member of action groups on GM foods and climate change, said the environmental lobby was losing the battle for public opinion on climate change because it had made too many apocalyptic prophecies and exaggerated claims.”
Huh they are buying into existing media with the explicit intention of directly manipulating public opinion
I have no problem with capitalism
Capitalism if controlled not by the market but public opinion and propaganda only benefits those in control
Its no longer capitalism its a Oligarchy – Rule by a small group of people who share similar interests
The super rich whose major interest is getting richer
Ok right now its totally ok to allow the super rich to control MSM to their benefit That is going to encourage the freedom of the press and enable a well informed population to act for the benefit of the …..0.000,000,01%.
USA politics is bad enough from a distance now the fuckers are trying to export it world wide.
Regan or G W Bush leading the free world?
Personally I would not trust either with feeding the goldfish.
PS still waiting for the geeks are the super rich argument.
It’s totally ok to allow anyone to operate a media outlet in countries like Australia, Griff, regardless of how much money they have and what their message is. As long as they follow the rules, what’s the problem? That people might prefer to listen to what they have to say?
RightNow says:- “7 years on kiwiblog that they’ll suck dick for money”
Yup. It comes down to a couple of things really. Honesty and objectivity. You can never be objective about anything if you can’t overcome your social conditioning. But that concept appears to be beyond your mental capacity.
Also I know you’re a fucking hypocrite. You’d have your price.
Frieden [Luxembourg Finance Minister], who yesterday also met with U.S. Treasury Department officials, called on the IMF’s largest shareholder to help strengthen the institution and make it part of a firewall to quell the European debt crisis.
I rather liked ZeroHedge’s take on this:
Translation: Hey America, we’ve done all we can, now it’s your turn to sustain the Ponzi. Because if we go, you go.
Why do the morons on either side of the global warming/climate change argument want
to beat themselves to death trying to argue the hind leg off a donkey,
or, how many faries can sit on the head of a pin ?
These drongs must know that they will never convince the other side.
Perhaps Scott Chris could give us some insight into what he gets out of it for instance ?
I must admit that I’ve participated in more than a few of those arguments over the years – but really people, the (AGFC) Anthropogenic Global Financial Crisis, is where the discussion is now.
In fact, in one respect, I’m quite thankful to all the left-wing social-welfare systems and Euro-capitalism that has led to this point. Were we still fat and happy money-wise, the insanity of “addressing” AGW would still be raging away.
now i know i’m thick but,
isn’t it the size of, and the entitlements owed, to the, ‘public service’ that is the main thing fucking the European
countries that are going down the shithole before your very eyes.
Didn’t you pick that up plebe ?
Now if that is incorrect, you will be able to tell me where i got that wrong. Right plebe.
Go for it.
With expenditures of just over 40% of GDP in 2008, New Zealand is one of the smaller governments in the OECD area.
Consistent budget deficits over the past decade culminated in an unprecedented budget deficit of 15.4% of GDP in 2009 when expenditures rose to over 53% …of GDP.
It does make one wonder what all the fuss is about when we already have tightly controlled government spending. I’ve no objection to continued vigilance but out’s a bit silly getting sucked into the Key/English propaganda when their much vaunted welfare reforms, for example, will affect only a few hundreds of beneficiaries – the ones least able to fight back of course, and mainly women, but, hey, victimisation is fun!
Been following this ‘trainwreck in slow-motion’ for several months now. I think the ‘PIGS’ will go down, the only question is when.
Greece defaulting will trigger another crisis, it will be like dominos falling down. The ‘Northern Euros’ trying to salvage the ‘PIGS’ will trigger a lot of resentment and I don’t think it will make a difference anyway.
“AGW? I must admit that I’ve participated in more than a few of those arguments over the years – but really people, the (AGFC) Anthropogenic Global Financial Crisis, is where the discussion is now.”
AGW is part of the AGFC debate. ‘Green’ policies (Crony capitalism) has done a lot of damage. Spain has almost bankrupted itself with their focus on renewables and Britain is on its way (Crazy windmill scheme), showing (yet) no sign of stopping. Obama’s ongoing anti coal\oil and gas policies and his billions of dollars of loans for failing ‘Green Energy’ companies (His campaign contributors) are damaging the US economy.
usually i’ts against my better judgement to knock my head into a brick wall Luc.
but as your mate plebe is not up to fuck all, try this.
i think you missed the point.
Government spending is not the issue. What it spends on is.
One factor that is an issue is the level of non productive persons who work in the ever expanding beauracracy
( see Helen Clarks administration )
who produce nothing of tangible value and who the real workers have to support now and more importantly in the future.
And,,, those workers can never hope to aspire to the benefits that will be paid to those drones.( take Bill Englishs’ brother
It will just get worser and worser if nothing is done till your sprogs will need to pay so much tax to
support those drones that the whole pack of cards comes down.
I hoped the AGFC would focus world leaders on real issues.
But look at how disappointing they are.Britain insists on ring fencing foreign aid while destroying it’s military At a time they are at war and the rewened threat of it from the Argie Dagos. India has even said it doesn’t want British aid and the UK response is please please we want to bankrupt our selves by giving you money we don’t have.
The German “conservatives” are shutting down their nuclear stations and making themselves depend even more on imported energy.
Of more relevence to me is the fact that Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and Citigroup are all in the top 6 of Obama’s biggest contributors. You might be interested to see what each one spends lobbying congress (amongst other interesting stats):
The support for Obama from Wallstreet is old news, everybody knows that.
Executives and others connected with Wall Street firms, such as Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Citigroup, UBS AG, JPMorgan Chase, and Morgan Stanley, poured nearly $15.8 million into his coffers.
Goldman Sachs contributed slightly over $1 million to Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign, compared with a little over $394,600 to the 2004 Bush campaign. Citigroup gave $736,771 to Obama in 2008, compared with $320,820 to Bush in 2004. Executives and others connected with the Swiss bank UBS AG donated $539,424 to Obama’s 2008 campaign and JP Morgan Chase gave Obama’s campaign $808,799 in 2008.
Fannie and Freddie became big contributors to the Democratic Party. The sub-prime business paid off-at least while the bubble was growing. And the Kerry, Hillary and Obama campaigns have numbered among the leading recipients of the largess of the two mortgage lenders
The stimulus money (Trillions of dollars) also went to companies that supported and funded Obama’s campaign.
Tesla received a loan rate of 1.6% from DOE to manufacture an all-electric car. It is owned and financed by big donors to the Democratic Party and to Barack Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign. Tesla’s principal owner is Elon Musk, the founder of PayPal.
Elon Musk has been a generous donor to the Democratic National Committee, contributing more than $120,000 over three different election cycles and $292,250 to political campaigns, overwhelmingly to Democrats.
Another Obama $500,000 bundler was Solyndra investor George Kaiser and his foundation.
A company called Amyris Biotechnologies received a $24 million DOE grant to build a pilot plant to use altered yeast to turn sugar into hydrocarbons. The investors included several Obama bundlers and fundraisers. With federal money in hand, Amyris went public with an IPO the following year, raising $85 million. Kleiner Perkins, a firm that boasts Obama financier John Doerr and former vice president Al Gore as partners, found its $16 million investment was now worth $69 million.
There are lots of others.
“House Republican leaders said Monday they would introduce a bill extending the payroll-tax break for the rest of the year without finding spending cuts to offset the program’s cost. The proposal marks a major shift for Republicans, who previously had insisted that the costs of extending a trio of provisions expiring at the end of the month be offset with spending cuts.”
As the article suggests, why stop there:
Will Republicans grasp that the paradox of defeating Obama is precisely in giving him a carte blanche on all the stimulus programs he wants?
Because if Congress approves another $200, 300 or even $400 billion in stimulus pork (the only thing better than one Solyndra? One thousand Solyndras!) the Treasury will drown in the need to raise hundreds of billions more, and will in fact hit the ceiling well in advance of the elections.
As for the stimulus projects themselves, they will crash and burn just like all centrally planned endeavors, and actually result in a far worse outcome than if they had never been attempted. [Because] the best way to finally get back to a fiscally prudent regime? Why go to town, of course.”
Give them what they want – and huge tax increases on the 1% too. So the left will be walking around wondering how the huge gusher of money turned into a thin trickle as everyone from Warren Buffet to Matt Damon run screaming for their Cayman Island accountants – but it will be worth it to watch the anguished screams of pain. Why get blamed for the failures when you can get the left-wing to burn down their very own institutions, using the methods they wanted. Of course one of the commentators makes a sober point:
this is a great plan by the WSJ!!!
It’s like letting your kids burn the house down to show them how foolish it is to play with matches. It’s all about being able to say “I told you so” when you are shivering under the overpass.
To this point, I didn’t consider bereal being in the outhouse with Lou
but I have no objections to the idea.
I do hope however, that they avoid the obvious
cliche and don’t sing ‘Lou, Lou, skip to the Lou my darling’ upon entry.
Where ever entry might be.
How to say “I Love You” in ten different languages:
English: I Love You
Spanish: Te Amo
French: Je T’aime
German: Ich Liebe Dich
Japanese: Ai Shite Imasu
Italian: Ti Amo
Chinese: Wo Ai Ni
Swedish: Jag Alskar Dig
Lithuanian: As Tave Meliu
New Zealand: Nice Tits! Get in the ute!