General Debate 18 February 2012

February 18th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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148 Responses to “General Debate 18 February 2012”

  1. DavidC (179 comments) says:

    Wake up you lazy basturds!
    We righties have to save the world!

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  2. Nookin (3,274 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/opinion/6440170/Bain-defence-still-less-than-convincing

    Sounds like another episode of unashamed and unbalanced advocacy by an author who lost all sight of objectivity years ago. This review highlights errors and omissions that really destroy any incentive to read it and see if it adds anything to the debate.

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  3. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    Defining the issue:

    All of the witnesses at the house committee meeting debating Obama’s compromise plan to require free insurance coverage of contraceptives for women…..

    ….are men.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/17/us/politics/birth-control-coverage-rule-debated-at-house-hearing.html?ref=politics

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  4. Yvette (2,766 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/opinion/6440170/Bain-defence-still-less-than-convincing

    … On the day of the murders, Laney was on her way to work at a resthome up the road from the Bain’s Every Street address when she saw David Bain at the gate of their house …
    When she saw Bain he was further up the street than normal and it caused her to worry that she was late.
    “I thought: ‘Oh God I’m running late’, but it was misinterpreted. I tried to get it across in the courtroom I was not late; every day was pretty much the same.
    “As I said to Joe Karam … I said: ‘Look, the best time frame I can give you is somewhere between 20 to and quarter to seven and he just hung up in my ear’.” …

    This would seem to be typical of Karam [and perhaps anyone else on such a quest as his] that he discard, or ignore to the point of suppression, any evidence he find not useful in his view.
    As reviewer Martin Van Beyen makes no mention of motive, I assume that TRIAL BY AMBUSH doesn’t either, which would possibly be Karam ignoring another point where his case unravels a little. The supposed impending weekend showdown with Laniet threating to expose Robin’s incest with her would damage David’s relationships more than Robin’s reputation, and the information was already known outside of the family.
    Nor apparently does the book comment on David’s behaviour in the St Kilda sandhills while with friends before he was arrested and the reactions of the relatives he was staying with at the time.
    And does the book comment either on why Robin engineered so much evidence to implicate his son if David was the ‘only one deserving to live’?

    I hope retired Canadian judge Ian Binnie reads a great deal more of this case than the library of Joe Karam books the media reports he has been sent. Like, for a little balance, THE MASK OF SANITY – by James McNeish, which may need a somewhat sceptical approach, but then Karam’s books require the same.

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  5. Brian Smaller (4,007 comments) says:

    I would hope that the judge looking into compensation IGNORES partisan books from either side and just looks at the evidence and the trial transcripts.

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  6. plebe (271 comments) says:

    Life under the Keys reign.I bet all the managers keep their jobs.We need managers, not nurses and doctors under national.

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/Auckland/news/nbhea/1629002651-Nurses-concerned-over-job-cuts

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  7. Yvette (2,766 comments) says:

    Brian –
    Documents released under the Official Information Act show material provided to Binnie includes a joint report by the Police Complaints Authority and Police Commissioner from 1997, an application to the governor-general for exercise of the Royal perogative of mercy by Bain in 1998, the Ministry of Justice and Sir Thomas Thorp reports on that application, court records and decisions, submissions on the compensation claim, and the claim itself.
    The Ministry of Justice said Binnie also requested two books by Karam, David and Goliath: the Bain family murders and Bain and Beyond.  The books were provided by the ministry.
    Several other books have been written on the Bain case, including The Mask of Sanity: The Bain Murders by James McNeish and In the Grip of Evil: The Bain Murders by Judith Wolfe and Trevor Reeves. There are also numerous documentaries about the murders. These were not requested.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6368057/Judge-asks-for-Karam-books-to-decide-compo-claim

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  8. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/6432474/High-cost-of-living-mars-return-to-NZ
    Are we better off under Labour lite than its nasty predecessor? By the way, other than attending gay festivals, where is Smile-and-wave these days?

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  9. plebe (271 comments) says:

    John Keys new best friends the chinese are hard at it ,and not a classroom in sight for (re-education) John boy you are judged by the communists you hang around with.

    http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=china+arrests+tibetians&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEIQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phayul.com%2Fnews%2Farticle.aspx%3Fid%3D30806%26t%3D1&ei=g7U-T_v6EpCciAfatISOAg&usg=AFQjCNFS3EpFSdu28e3SXcRwjALoCeH6KQ

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  10. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    The insidious advance of political correctness: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/6439977/Restorative-justice-goes-to-school

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  11. peterwn (3,239 comments) says:

    Brian – I would rather Judge Ian Binnie was given the Joe Karam books even if the request could be perceived as ‘biased’. This heads off any criticism that the judge has not considered things fully.

    IMO he does not need to see books that goes the other way. The whole matter is neatly covered here:
    http://jdo.justice.govt.nz/jdo/GetJudgment/?judgmentID=12364

    I assume the Judge has been given all relevant judgments including this one.

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  12. Kent Parker (451 comments) says:

    Re: Bain. You might consider signing the petition: http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/ . Although Justice Binnie does his investigation, the final decision is made by the Minister.

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  13. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    It’s becoming a whodunnit to find who forged the fake Heartland document that Griff made such a fool of himself with earlier in the week.

    The idiosynchratic writing style and time stamp on the forgery currently make green activist Peter Gleick the primary suspect:

    http://rankexploits.com/musings/2012/tell-me-whats-horrible-about-this/

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  14. Lindsay Addie (1,412 comments) says:

    Re Karam’s latest magnum opus, well I’ve no intention of reading it but I’m sure that avid David Bain supporter Wendy Petrie will buy a copy………

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  15. kowtow (8,205 comments) says:

    manolo @922 Advance of PC

    Interesting thing about that article is a similar one appears in the ODT today, under the headline “Fewer pupils expelled”.A similar theme to the last paragraph in your Dom story…..decline in overall blah blah blah.

    I read previously that Ed Ministry puts pressure on schools not to expel/exclude so that is the reason for the decline,your story backs that up with this ‘progressive” approach. So you have a combination of state diktat and PC.

    What the DOM story doesn’t mention and mine does is a very worrying trend of increasing numbers of primary and intermediate students being stood down or excluded!

    I say enough of this standing down and bring back the birch. Discipline them early and you’ll have less trouble down the road. And parents should also have their traditional right to discipline their children restored.

    Thanks for nothing National.

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  16. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    Brian Smaller says:- “I would hope that the judge looking into compensation IGNORES partisan books from either side”

    It won’t matter what he sees. Unlike the lay jury, this judge possesses the experience and training necessary to sort the wheat from the chaff. There is no solid evidence to implicate Robin Bain in the murders whereas the physical evidence implicating David Bain as the killer is overwhelming.

    Shows how deluded Bain’s supporters are to even contemplate seeking compensation. As for Bain… well, he has no choice but to play along.

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  17. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    @plebe,

    John boy you are judged by the communists you hang around with.

    You think he is tainted by sitting in the House with the Greens, Hone and Labour?

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  18. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    wat dabney

    No doubt the Heartland Institute engineered the scam themselves as a double play in attempt to make the pro-science lobby look bad.

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  19. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Scott,

    That would be right. Just as those intrepid investigators over at The Stranded have determined that TrevTek’s scalping was a National Party set up designed to force him to sell the tickets at an inflated price just so his otherwise unimpeachable reputation could be sullied by the evil capitalist oppressors of the proletariat.

    Cue Tui…

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  20. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Scott,

    Shows how deluded Bain’s supporters are to even contemplate seeking compensation.

    It certainly is a ‘high stakes’ action. If the claim fails then I think it is highly likely that general public perception will swing to the acquittal being more a case of ‘not proven’ than a finding of innocence.

    I can’t imagine we will be seeing any fist-pumping from Wendy Petrie if she has to report that compensation was denied.

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  21. mister nui (1,020 comments) says:

    Oh dear lord, please let this come to be: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6441823/Bid-to-scrap-race-relations-office

    With some luck the racist prick de Bres will be out on his ass. Perhaps he could fuck off back to The Netherlands, or try somewhere where racism is a real problem; I suggest China for a start.

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  22. RightNow (6,974 comments) says:

    wat – the warmistas are so desperate they’re resorting to libel and forgery since the facts don’t support their point of view.

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  23. kowtow (8,205 comments) says:

    mister nui
    Sadly it’s only the title to be scrapped,not the whole damned thing.

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  24. RightNow (6,974 comments) says:

    Brilliant politics commentary
    “The stalking of Ms Gillard by Kevin Rudd is actually more pantomime than farce. “He’s behind you!” the audience shouts, but when she turns around, he’s gone.”

    “Gillard seems to walk into every door, fall into every manhole, put her face in the way of every available pie.”

    – Laurie Oakes
    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/oakes-stop-it-this-is-serious/story-e6freakc-1226274181898

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  25. Yvette (2,766 comments) says:

    In 2010 the Human Rights Commission received 543 complaints on race-related grounds, about a third of all discrimination complaints. About 11 per cent were about racial harassment, particularly in the area of employment.
    A large number of complaints stemmed from broadcaster Paul Henry’s comments about the governor-general and former All Black Andy Haden’s comments about rugby players of Pacific Island origin.

    With Henry moving to Australia, of course save money and close the whole office down.
    [There, Paul, at last you too can make a complaint. And, hopefully, it may be the last complaint made]

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  26. Other_Andy (2,576 comments) says:

    Scott Chris Says: No doubt the Heartland Institute engineered the scam themselves as a double play in attempt to make the pro-science lobby look bad.

    Yep, no doubt. They realy need to do this to make the AGW’rs look bad.
    First it was all true and now they are found out it is double play.
    Can you keep a straight face when writing this?
    Pro science?
    You mean the ‘consencus’ of the 77 out of 79 ‘climate scientists’?
    The ones that call global warming skeptics ‘deniers’ and ‘racists’?
    The ones that get support from people like this?

    “We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.”
    Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation

    “It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.”
    Paul Watson,co-founder of Greenpeace

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  27. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    Hasn’t this government had enough of comrade Joris and crowd?
    What is Labour lite waiting for to close this useless quango?

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  28. RightNow (6,974 comments) says:

    too funny…
    Finnish president’s husband, Pentti Arajärvi, caught staring at Princess Mary’s boobs!

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  29. adze (2,093 comments) says:

    RN what boobs? :) He could have been checking out her jewellery, though by his reaction when she looked around he obviously knew it was impolite to stare.

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  30. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Uninformed criticism of the Human Rights Commission is usually based on a few high-profile cases such as Paul Henry and Andy Haden. That’s only a small part of the picture. Have a look at the proceeding of the Humans Rights Tribunal to get an idea about what really goes on

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  31. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    Red Joris would like this generosity: http://www.news.com.au/national/asylum-seekers-made-to-feel-at-home-thanks-to-a-10000-welcome-pack/story-e6frfkvr-1226273323772

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  32. RightNow (6,974 comments) says:

    yeah adze, his reaction is the funny bit. He seems to suddenly find the ceiling rather interesting.

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  33. Other_Andy (2,576 comments) says:

    “Suicide bomb plot foiled by FBI”

    El Khalifi expressed interest in killing at least 30 people and considered targeting a building in nearby Alexandria and a restaurant, synagogue and a place where military personnel gather in Washington before he settled on the Capitol.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10786361

    Another example of a ‘double take’ Scott. We know that all muslims are peace loving people so this is obviously a plot by the evil Zionists and their Christian collaborators to foster ‘islamophobia’.

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  34. Griff (7,403 comments) says:

    More manipulation of science for political Goals

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16861468

    Professor Andrew Weaver believes that the media protocol is being used by the Canadian government to “instruct scientists to deliver a certain message, thereby taking the heat out of controversial topics”.

    Prof Thomas Pedersen, a senior scientist at the University of Victoria,
    “I suspect the federal government would prefer that its scientists don’t discuss research that points out just how serious the climate change challenge is.”

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  35. RightNow (6,974 comments) says:

    Other_Andy, I heard the war on Afghanistan was actually a double play by the Council on American-Islamic Relations to stir Islamic sympathies in westerners.

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  36. RightNow (6,974 comments) says:

    Griff, since it’s you posting the link everything it says must be a lie.

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  37. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    bhudson

    Heh, no, I think Trev is well and truly munted. Despite me having no personal objection to scalping, the fact that Mallard initiated anti-scalping legislation in 2006 means that his career as a politician is effectively finished. The sooner he goes the better for labour, so this will be an interesting test of Shearer’s decisiveness.

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  38. Griff (7,403 comments) says:

    RightNow (3,984) Says:
    February 18th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Griff, since it’s you posting the link everything it says must be a lie.

    Based on
    Is heartland going to open its books and internal communication for scrutiny
    Interestingly enough the original leak had a cover note that the tax issues were most interesting
    Bye bye heartland

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  39. RightNow (6,974 comments) says:

    Griff – you smear, you try and shut down freedom of speech, and you ignore information that doesn’t come from sources you approve of.

    The only suitable reaction is to mock you. Bye bye Griff.

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  40. Griff (7,403 comments) says:

    RightNow

    pot kettle black

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  41. Other_Andy (2,576 comments) says:

    Griff

    You haven’t had the memo yet? As Scott has previously pointed out, the ‘leak’ has been proven to be a fake. The next plan of attack is to portray the ‘leak’ as ‘double play’. When they are going the find out who forged the ‘leak’ (Peter Gleick?) the tactic is going to change to defending ‘pro-science’ scientists from deniers’ smear tactics.

    Keep up the good fight and mind your ‘carbon footprint’ comrade.

    That link you posted where Professor Andrew Weaver states that he believes that the media protocol is being used by the Canadian government to “instruct scientists to deliver a certain message, thereby taking the heat out of controversial topics” comes from the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS). One of the aims of this ‘scientific’ organization is to (As they themselves state) “influence public perceptions and debate when the science supporting a position is not enough to carry the argument.

    Oh the irony…..

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  42. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    Other Andy says:- “Another example of a ‘double take’ Scott. We know that all muslims are peace loving people so this is obviously a plot by the evil Zionists and their Christian collaborators to foster ‘islamophobia’.”

    Now now, don’t be silly Andy. By the same token, I wouldn’t be surprised if the recent botched “attempts” to target Israelis in India and Georgia were arranged by Mossad to persuade domestic waverers to stop wavering and to augment Israel’s supposed casus belli against Iran.

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  43. cha (3,935 comments) says:

    Lovely.

    http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/02/15/government-sanctioned-rape-in-state-virginia-and-texas

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  44. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    Can you imagine our wimp and invisible PM saying anything like this? http://www.breitbart.tv/santorum-praises-income-inequality/

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  45. Other_Andy (2,576 comments) says:

    “Now now, don’t be silly Andy. By the same token, I wouldn’t be surprised if the recent botched “attempts” to target Israelis in India and Georgia were arranged by Mossad to persuade domestic waverers to stop wavering and to augment Israel’s supposed casus belli against Iran.”

    Obviuosly.
    And you are calling me silly?

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  46. Griff (7,403 comments) says:

    If you’re familiar with the group’s actions in the slightest, it is clear that “honest disagreement” has never been on the agenda. On the broadband side, Heartland has contributed to no limit of polluted discourse, using completely bogus science from other incumbent ISP-tied organizations to endlessly dispute clear data showing that U.S. broadband needs a lot of work. They were also instrumental in pushing the “Exaflood” myth, or the idea that the Internet will collapse from traffic growth unless ISPs get what they want (higher prices, no consumer protections, deregulation, no net neutrality rules).

    After the story percolated for a few days, Heartland released a statement claiming that one of the documents in the leak was a forgery. “One document, titled ‘Confidential Memo: 2012 Heartland Climate Strategy,’ is a total fake apparently intended to defame and discredit The Heartland Institute,” says the group, which goes on to insist that “honest disagreement should never be used to justify the criminal acts and fraud that occurred in the past 24 hours.” However

    , much of what’s in the supposedly fake document is supported in the other documents Heartland apparently acknowledges as genuine.

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  47. RightNow (6,974 comments) says:

    too funny Griff. Nothing in the leaked/stolen documents is inconsistent with what they put on their website http://heartland.org/about
    Except for the strangely worded fake. Why fake that if the rest of the documents are damning in themselves?

    Seriously do you have the ability to grasp complex concepts?
    You dispute that Anthony Watts would need $88,000 to set up a website that makes data connections to NOAA and processes the data into a more accessible format, allowing users to create tables etc, and you base your contention on whether a blog site (Kiwiblog) costs $88,000. It’s a blog hosted on a free platform (wordpress).

    For your edification, here’s some programmer jobs on trademe advertised at $100k + p/a. Watts would only get a part timer on his budget:
    http://www.trademe.co.nz/jobs/it/programming-development/listing-449513132.htm
    http://www.trademe.co.nz/jobs/it/programming-development/listing-448551736.htm
    http://www.trademe.co.nz/jobs/it/programming-development/listing-444677080.htm

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  48. RightNow (6,974 comments) says:

    P.S Griff – is there a good reason you’re not providing links to your sources that you copy and paste from?

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  49. RightNow (6,974 comments) says:

    Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature Project:

    Donors include Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation ($150,000)

    Does that ruin their credibility Griff?
    http://berkeleyearth.org/donors/

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  50. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    Other Andy says:- “And you are calling me silly?”

    I simply said ‘I wouldn’t be surprised’, just as I wouldn’t be surprised if they turned out to be amateurish Jihadist Al Qaeda wannabes. I would be surprised if they were sponsored by the Iranian regime however.

    Here’s a list of Mossad’s greatest hits:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

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  51. RightNow (6,974 comments) says:

    And Griff, Heartland’s IRS form 990 is available directly from their website.

    http://heartland.org/media-library/pdfs/2010-IRS-Form-990.pdf

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  52. Other_Andy (2,576 comments) says:

    “I would be surprised if they were sponsored by the Iranian regime however.”

    Why am I not surprised that you reject the most plausible perpetrator?
    I suppose that, if in a few days time the evidence points to the Iranian regime, you would use the ‘false flag’, ‘double take’ meme again.
    Oh wait, that’s why you mention the Mossad.
    Don’t you ever get dizzy, twisting and turning?

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  53. Other_Andy (2,576 comments) says:

    Oh wait.
    I see where you get all your ‘news’ Scott.
    You read the same news sites as Luc.

    “Israel Frames Iran for its False Flag Embassy Bombing Saga”

    http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?eid=45889&frid=31&seccatid=91&cid=31&fromval=1

    Straight from the Party of God (Funded by Iranian money).
    They are no evil Zionists, Christians or Westeners so they must be right.

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  54. Other_Andy (2,576 comments) says:

    Scott says “I would be surprised if they were sponsored by the Iranian regime however.”

    Thai police pursue fifth bomb suspect

    Thai police said Friday that they were looking for a fifth suspect in connection with explosions this week at an apparent bomb factory in Bangkok that authorities have linked to several Iranians.
    The Iranian who lost his leg remains in serious condition. A second suspect was arrested at Bangkok’s main airport and a third is being held in Malaysia, where he faces extradition. Thai authorities have also issued an arrest warrant for the Iranian woman who rented the house; she is believed to have left the country, possibly for Tehran.

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/02/thai-police-pursue-fifth-iran-bomb-suspect-prostitute-angle-.html

    Yep, obviously a false flag operation from Mossad .
    As usual, an excellent assessment of the facts Scott.
    All those Iranian links are highly circumstantial.

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  55. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    “if in a few days time the evidence points to the Iranian regime”

    Depends how credible the evidence is. In my experience, things are rarely as simple as they appear to be.

    The reasons why I don’t think the Iranian intelligence was behind the Indian and Georgian bombings is that they appear to have been so poorly executed and the timing is too soon. Intelligence operations are rarely hasty affairs from what I’ve been led to believe.

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  56. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    Um, I wasn’t talking about the Thai incident. I know there are Iranians involved there but there is nothing yet to connect them either with the other bombings, or with the Iranian regime.

    Even if they are connected with the other bombings, they strike me as being more like an Al Qaeda cell than intelligence operatives.

    Would a trained intelligence operative blow his own leg off with a grenade for instance?

    Just keeping an open mind, that’s all.

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  57. Griff (7,403 comments) says:

    So you are telling me it would take 1000 experienced programmer hours to take figures available on a web sit and produce graphs from them
    Did you do 101 computing?The figures are provided in a format readily transfered to open office or similar Graphing functions are written into these programmers Yes he will require a little more complexity and a user friendly interface 1000hrs no.

    Watts has claimed that he has no funding from industry sources
    Will he open his books to show were his funding comes from?
    I really enjoyed watching his blog and the comments as to how to discredit the memo.
    THE OTHER documents will cause the death of heartland no one in industry will wont to be involved with them.

    WHO IS THE ANONYMOUS DONER THAT IS TRYING TO DISCREDIT SCIENCE.

    Is one question that is yet to be answered
    http://heartland.org/funding
    Heartland does not solicit or accept grants from government agencies, does not conduct contract research, and does not rely on direct mail to raise money .” No corporate donor contributes more than 5 percent” of its annual budget.

    How to lie by misrepresentation
    One ANONYMOUS DONER has donated up to 60% of its total budget some years

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  58. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    Griff,

    Just to be clear, you do accept that the document you were crowing about this week is in fact a forgery?

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  59. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    “Fakegate” on google now returns thousands of hits.

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  60. kowtow (8,205 comments) says:

    Isn’t it funny how the left love to make fun of western intelligence operatives (CIA etc as useless bunglers) but when a Muslim intelligence operative from Iran tries to murder civilians in Thailand and stuffs up (hahahaha) he obviously can’t be what he obviously is,FFS.

    Scott please keep making excuses for them,you don’t know how ridiculous you sound.

    Boom,what the fuck was that,shit ,where’s my legs, they didn’t teach me this at Armadinnerjacket School For Fuckwit Assassins.

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  61. chiz (1,132 comments) says:

    Melanie “brains – who needs them?” Reid will be interviewing Karam on one of the current affairs shows tomorrow.

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  62. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    Getting hotter: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/17/us-officials-iran-sanctions-military-action

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  63. Griff (7,403 comments) says:

    watt
    Astroturfing does not prove fact it only reinforces the processes used by these propaganda merchants.
    I actually believe that heart land and its net work of anti science nut jobs have latched onto the memo because it is not provable by independent means
    The other documents are just as damming
    watss up have had to change the lie that they are merely sponsored by individual private donations as have many more involved in the anti science propaganda machine

    That you and others like you focus ion the memo is do divert attention away from the real information
    Tax fraud, gross misrepresentation, and a policy of encouraging any nut job that brings doubt on climate science, Paid for mostly by one anonymous doner

    This will be a handy little sentence whenever climate gate comes up.
    dissuade teachers from teaching science.
    True or not who cares.
    Climate gate has had nine interdependent reviews none found any dishonesty.
    And you nut jobs still try to use the emails to discredit the science.
    isint it great when the shoe is on the other foot.

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  64. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    I love browsing photo albums Manolo.

    http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=nuclear+bunker+buster&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=eRM_T_XpIs-tiQfr5NzzBA&ved=0CEIQsAQ&biw=1038&bih=828

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  65. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    Manolo

    You really do like war don’t you. You speak of the prospect with such relish, and yet in the same breath you label Muslims as barbarians.

    Griff says:- “Climate gate has had nine interdependent reviews none found any dishonesty.”

    He shoots, he scores!!

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  66. RightNow (6,974 comments) says:

    Griffin:”true or not who cares”
    You can’t handle the truth

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  67. reid (16,227 comments) says:

    I’ve spent quite a bit of time thinking about the theme of what this should be, my 10,000’th KB comment, but I didn’t really have any clever ideas so I’m just going to wing it and see what happens.

    The whole blogging phenomena as we see it today is just one of the outgrowths arising from the fact that our news of today is but a shadow of its former self thanks to its obsession with “infotainment.” It’s almost an inverse proportional thing, the decline of the antique media and the rise of the blogs and the alternative news-sites some of which are of extraorindary quality (and some aren’t, same as the blogs). Blogs allow conversations to arise in as much depth as the participants feel like and this is my theory as to why they’re successful for two reasons: firstly the fact the audience can be anyone – they could be Ph.d’s or they could be village idiots but its unlimited potentially and practically limited only by those participant’s being interested in the topic and locating it on the web. Secondly the fact its topics are similarly unlimited in that while propaganda blogs exist to push a view, no-one forces anyone to read it or participate. It’s all strictly voluntary.

    The media has lost its way because its set aside the tradition of laying out objective facts and leaving their opinions out of it in favour of being obsessed with advertising revenue and circulation and designing its editorial policies around those instead of fulfilling what actually is the sacred duty of The Fourth Estate which we all used to know and love. I first noticed it in the very early 80’s when the ads started appearing in the Herald at the expense of the content and I remember sitting in the Auckland Uni cafe year after year just watching those ad pages grow like weeds, and it’s never really stopped. Apparently you can even buy a version of Kindle with ads, these days. I mean, it’s cheaper but some marketers apparently think some people will really enjoy ads, as they turn every fucking page of their every book, for that’s not how it will start but its how it will be in a few years time, won’t it. So the poison penetrates.

    It’s quite insane isn’t it, the media’s justification for trivia, because “that’s what most people want to read, hear or see.” Sadly, they’re right. If you did seriously intelligent stuff between 6-10PM weeknights these days, you probably would get a low audience. But this is only because the dumbing down process that’s been conducted since the 80’s has changed people’s expectations – they have changed them over time, slicing the elephant without people noticing it happening until these days, after only 1.5 generations, its a self-fulfilling prophecy and we all know it’s getting worse and worse, and will continue to, don’t we.

    So isn’t it interesting that in the pantheon of hugely well resourced global media empires you get hardly any display of the intelligence which people still clearly possess, as evidenced every single day in the workplaces and in the blogs. Yet still they offer those of us with 3-digit IQs nothing at all, except even more bread and circuses for the idiot sheeple for they are idiots, aren’t they.

    All I can say is: thank fuck for blogs, and thanks DPF for not banning me, even when I do talk about things like 911, Israel, the Gweens, lefties in general, cognitive dissonance and everything else I say. I have two posts I have regretted making. One of them I made about Israel following Operation Cast Lead in Christmas 2008? and I said the people of Israel were basically thugs. As those who read me know, I blame the Israeli govt and not the people of Israel for what the govt troops do and I apologise to the Israeli people for saying that for it was wrong then, I don’t think that and I never have. I was just a bit emotional about the whole Gaza thing that Christmas but I should not have said that and I’m sorry and I was wrong. The other one I made just after DPF got back from SA this year which was a gratuitous use of the f word as I am, or was wont to do. DPF gave me my first demerits ever which disappointed me for I was aiming for the 10,000 without one ever even given what I’d said about lots of things, but sadly that wasn’t to be. However DPF was right to do it, I was wrong about that. I wasn’t wrong about the lefties I was wrong in my gratuitous use of the f word. Which as a Christian I realise is unbecoming, also. However I can’t guarantee, as you see above, I won’t continue to use it for it’s a useful noun and adjective in the right context, I just guarantee I won’t be gatuitous with it (as judged and executed in my own head, of course, I don’t care what anyone else says:))

    The fact that most of the commenters on a political blog including myself are only half-fanatics in that we won’t change our minds but we will change the subjects brings to mind this quote from the person when he made the first successful Television transmission in the lab, and he turned to his assistants and announced:

    Congratualuations gentlemen, we’ve just invented the biggest time-waster known to mankind.

    Let’s hope at the end of the day, that’s not true about blogs, in particular this one. I mean crikey, 10,000 comments x say 5 mins per = 50,000 mins = 833 hours = 34.72 days, which isn’t much time at all, when you think about how much we’ve changed the world, through our collective thinking emanating through the collective consciousness. I mean look at what a difference we’ve made. Crikey!

    Take care everyone and thank you all for your contributions and wisdom and long may they continue. Thanks for not RIPping me, or at least, not telling me if you have.

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  68. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    Wonderful, wonderful comment reid.

    Thank G-d we have chaps and chapesses (such as we have here) to make such profound pronounciations.

    Whatever you said it was utterly beautiful even though I never read more than 5% of the words.

    All I can suggest to improve your next ten thousand is the use of more smiley faces! :)

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  69. nasska (11,187 comments) says:

    reid

    Congratulations on passing the 10K milestone. Your often controversial yet reactionary stance on a multitude of topics is thought provoking & is an important part of making Kiwiblog what it is.

    Regrettably, I struggle to find common ground with you on some topics but mercifully we manage civil debate. Be advised, however, that it is my intention to convert you to a socially liberal, atheistic, Islamophobic outlook before you celebrate the 20K mark.

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  70. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    As long as reid use more smiley faces he can continue to say what he likes as far as I am concerned nasska. :)

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  71. RightNow (6,974 comments) says:

    congratulations on 10,000 comments reid, I’ve found them (the ones I’ve read) rather interesting.

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  72. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    The trouble with getting to 10,000 is it takes you into Redbaiter territory!

    Just saying you understand. :)

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  73. plebe (271 comments) says:

    Careful Sott Chris for abusing Israel and the Jews you might log onto Kiwiblog one day and your computer will explode in your face.They probably have you on some list somewhere,to be taken care of.
    PS they are damn good at getting rid of problems.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

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  74. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    No, I don’t like war, but am not an apologist for barbaric regimes like the ones predominant in the Middle East.
    Another point of difference with you: I despise backward-looking Islam and all it represents.

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  75. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    Did the Nuns like you Manolo or did they think you were a nasty little spotty faced sort of dude? :)

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  76. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    Did the Nuns like you Manolo or did they think you were a nasty little spotty faced sort of dude?

    The latter, I’m afraid. :D

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  77. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    I bet you never had to say as many Hail Mary’s as Scotty did! :)

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  78. Elaycee (4,356 comments) says:

    @reid: Well done on your 10,000 comments.

    Weading them is a wefweshing change from weading about the howwible Gweens. :D

    Crikey!

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  79. reid (16,227 comments) says:

    nasska I have a different paradigm of the world than most. You, DPF and others have a paradigm where it’s not acceptable to consider that western govts actively and with malice aforethought operate against the interests of their own citizens. In this paradigm, which used to be the only one I had this is why I understand it, the UK’s surveillance system is not big-brother its a useful crime-fighting tool and the authorities can be trusted not to mis-use it. The biometric face recognition technology that is being deployed can match citizens against terrorists and crime databases and since your average UK citizen is caught on camera nine times daily this is an excellent tool. And so it is.

    My paradigm includes all of those perspectives and includes an additional layer because I know who the NWO people are, IF the NWO people exist, and who knows about that. But IF they do then I know who they are, I know what they do, in terms of wars, propaganda, manipulation, I know why they do it and I know their future plans not in detail and not in timing but in broad strategic terms. And people with only your paradigm cannot even consider that credible, since to do so would involve you changing your whole paradigm. Or so you think, and this is where you’re wrong, for it doesn’t involve that, at all. As you see, I have kept the paradigm we both used to share, totally intact. I still have it. As you see from my analysis of the UK above. Those are exactly what your perspectives are, on that, aren’t they. It’s not that I know what you think, it’s just that any intelligent person would understand that issue that way were they in that paradigm you and I are in. So that proves I keep the old paradigm.

    All you have to do is to use logic. Perhaps because I have a philosophy degree, I have always found it easy. Philosophy is not as many imagine, sitting in a cave dreaming. It’s the science of thinking. It’s the foundation of the scientific method actually. The mission is: to find something which challenges the belief you have that a western govt would not do that. That it really wouldn’t, to take a mild example, allow one of its aging aircraft carriers to be sunk in the gulf killing 5-6000 of its own troops. That’s a mild example, and even that example, I can tell, causes one to recoil. But that’s the mission.

    OTY. Like I said, you don’t lose your old paradigm, that’s a myth. And once you’ve got over the shock, it opens another window on the world that unfortunately, is becoming more and more critical to understand as they become more and more aggressive for if this stuff is true it’s responsible for stuff like Libya and Syria and soon to be, Iran. It’s not fantasy play stuff we’re talking about. Another mild example. How come the very first act of the provisional govt in Libya the instant it took office I mean the instant, was to setup a Central Reserve Bank? How come that was the very very first act when they must have had a gajillion priority issues to deal with? But in your paradigm you probably don’t even know that happened for the MSM sure as hell didn’t cover it, did they. And if you did know it then someone in your paradigm wouldn’t know the significance of that act in terms of what it means for people in your paradigm don’t bother to acquaint yourselves with how the monetary system works in terms of fiat currency and what that means.

    This is the problem. I broke through that using 911 since it was such a searing event I just had to understand it and I still maintain for anyone seriously interesting in adding a new paradigm and not losing the old one the material on that is extensive, direct and compelling. Case closed, simple as that, but you have to use logic, and this is where my philosophy training paid off. Eliminate the impossible, whatever’s left, however absurd, must be the case. Simple as that. And most people can’t approach it that way. They have pre-determined subconsciously they will disregard information which suggest a western govt could lie so monstrously to its own citizens and accordingly they seek to justify that view. If you start reading 911 stuff then you have to hold that thought consciously in your mind, that its possible a western govt can do that, and then start reading. And that’s when you find that even with the most skeptical eye possible, the only possible conclusion based on all the evidence that’s just a single click away, is that they did. And I mean, be real skeptical, you owe it to yourself. But don’t stop holding that thought in consciousness cause if you do, game over, logic-wise and emotion takes over and tells you, the world isn’t like this, this is bullshit. And then it’s goodnight.

    Guys thank to all your responses to my above, I can’t thank you all but know I meant every word above re: have enjoyed all your contributions. And Johnboy, :)

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  80. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    Jeeze reid. You’re putting me on the spot here. You know I have a low attention span.

    I’ll get back to you in a couple of days when I’ve read the above! :)

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  81. nasska (11,187 comments) says:

    reid

    That’s where I must have gone wrong. Left school & drove a truck…..then promoted myself to driving a tractor & being a source of good advice to my dogs.

    Still & all, what’s left of the mind isn’t totally closed……it’s more that I need a bit of evidence before I change views.

    Does happen from time to time.

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  82. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    Yes well done reid. A Kblog stalwart. Vive la difference.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Johnboy I bet those nuns gave you a good spanking – at least when you weren’t giving yourself a good spanking… :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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  83. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    Hope all your dogs grew up to be good doggy’s and could tell a postman from a bailiff nasska? :)

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  84. nasska (11,187 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    They even learned to warn me when someone was about to catch me knocking the scab off a bottle in the tool shed.

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  85. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    Scotty my boy Scots College only allowed Nuns on the campus if they were Queen Maggots girls turning up in drag for the annual deflowering of the virgins ceremony otherwise known as the school ball.

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  86. nasska (11,187 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    You must be older than G-d (reid may be watching) if you had virgins attending school balls. I thought they had died out about the time the unicorns went AWOL.

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  87. reid (16,227 comments) says:

    Vive la difference.

    Exactly Scott. Let me know if you come up with an answer to my question about the Central Bank, it’d be good to understand why that was such a priority, wouldn’t it. It happened, look it up if you don’t think it did.

    I find it interesting that some groups understand some aspects of it such as you and others understanding Iran yet on other areas you don’t see it, such as on AGW, when it’s really all part of the same view.

    You must be older than G-d

    I’m ok with God now nasska and Johnboy. YHWH is His name, anyway. :)

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  88. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    Presbyterian woman were all virgins till their fathers coughed up the cost of the marriage license nasska.

    A man must pay for his sins ye ken! :)

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  89. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    I thought it was Yahweh reid?

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  90. reid (16,227 comments) says:

    That’s the Texan spelling Johnboy. :)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton

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  91. Griff (7,403 comments) says:

    Congratulations reid
    On trying to share you wisdom with us sheep.
    1000 times
    20 demerits is still a good testimony of your patience

    ps Just don’t talk 1000 up to much or Scott will try to beat u

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  92. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    Well pardner if Yahweh was a good enough spelling for Marion Mitchell Morrison it sure is good enough for a pilgrim like me.

    (Luv your use of smileys by the way). :)

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  93. reid (16,227 comments) says:

    On trying to share you wisdom with us sheep.

    I’m a sheep as well Griff.

    It’s just I’m a sheep with a giant laser-cannon under construction in a secret location in the hills above Eastbourne with which I shall threaten the White House with satellite shoot-down after satellite shoot-down unless and until they pay me enough cash to let me have a really good time anywhere I want to for the rest of my very long life.

    That’s the only diff between me and any other sheep, I figure.

    :)

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  94. Griff (7,403 comments) says:

    Its much better to just go and have a good time.
    To me that does not include sitting in a cubical or behind a counter or most of the other ways to earn a living.
    Its how u define a good time .
    A few of the farmers on here would agree with me Its much better in the real world.

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  95. Poliwatch (335 comments) says:

    Maybe someone has raised this issue before but if Trevor Mallard has been regularly selling concert tickets and/or he has been buying them with a view to sell them at a profit then the profit is taxable income.

    Has he been declaring that profit or is he guilty of tax evasion?

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  96. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    While I agree entirely with your right to employ a giant laser cannon reid. I am concerned with the fact that my computer watch on nutters program has brought up the word “sheep”.

    As long as the Eastbourne Progressive Association has no problem with the siting of your cannon neither do I.

    All I seek is the firing azimuth of the said cannon to make sure it can’t cause stress to either my sheep or fellows such as me going about my lawful sheep related duties.

    Look forward to your earliest response.

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  97. reid (16,227 comments) says:

    Has he been declaring that profit or is he guilty of tax evasion?

    Even if he’s not guilty of it Poliwatch, which he probably isn’t for you have to establish a buying-selling pattern, I think everyone should loudly accuse him of it anyway, just like he’s done to others in like circumstances.

    It’s called karma.

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  98. Viking2 (11,370 comments) says:

    Phew 10,000. well reid that takes time but like all good story tellers I think you misrepresent the time. 5 minutes per blog. what about the time it takes to read and follow the thread? Two or three times what you have suggested surely.
    So more like 100 days or probably a third of a year.

    Still one learns and one learns skills of debate and argument. One learns from others and one learns that often there are nut cases (like that fellow today Nark or whatever his name was), you learn there are learned points of view, there are fruitloops like Luc and his ilk and that there are plenty whose understanding of people and the world is woefully lacking. There are people who would control others in everything you do and others who think personal responsibility is the right thing to do.

    Prior to blogging most of us didn’t have the oppourtunity to have a say.
    So well done reid, great example to all even if we don’t all agree with each other.

    One thing. Please don’t just use one face. Its johnboys total repertoire and really rather boring.
    8) :? 8O :roll: :( :mad: :cool: :x :eek: ; :D :?:

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  99. cha (3,935 comments) says:

    Some big pictures for ya Johnboy.

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  100. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    reid,

    How come that was the very very first act when they must have had a gajillion priority issues to deal with?

    Oh please! The answer is so obvious it shows the question as completely facile. A gajillion priority issues to deal with takes funding – a means to pay to action them.

    Even a brief civil war, when won by a ‘popular’ uprising such as Libya, arrives at the ‘throne’ with no substantial funding. (‘Substantial’ being to run a country not only damaged through the fighting, but hemorrhaging money because of it.)

    Your Central Bank example, assuming it is, in fact, true, is no smoking gun to some grand conspiracy or NWO.

    As for 911 conspiracy theories. More nuts than an ice cream sundae…

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  101. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    reid,

    I am not uncharitable however.

    While we are diametrically opposed on this NWO conspiracy and all its tentacles, I congratulate you on reaching 10k.

    At least we can find some common ground on NZ economics and the welfare state

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  102. nasska (11,187 comments) says:

    If Your Pet Could Talk..

    Dog: “They keep putting the lid down on the big water bowl.”
    Goldfish: “Just because I have a three-second memory, they don’t think I’ll mind eating the same fish flakes over and over…………… Oh boy! Fish flakes!”
    Dog: “Man, why do they keep rubbing my nose in it? I already KNOW whose it is!”
    Parrot: “Tease, tease, tease! But do those greedy clowns ever really give me a cracker? SHIT NO!”
    Cat: “Why are these people in my house?”
    Dog “I don’t care if you take the jewellery or money, but don’t mess with the fridge.”
    Goldfish: “Oh, tap-tap-tap! Oh brilliant, arsehole. There’s a new one!”
    Dog: “The ‘pretending to throw a stick’ game is getting old, but I seem unable to stop myself from looking for it.”
    Dog: “Why is the baby eating my food…”
    Dog: “I bet if he could do that, he wouldn’t be telling me to stop.”
    Cat: “Oh no, he’s picking me up to do another ‘land on all fours off the balcony’ test again.”
    Gerbil: “OH NO, not again!”

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  103. reid (16,227 comments) says:

    Oh please! The answer is so obvious it shows the question as completely facile. A gajillion priority issues to deal with takes funding – a means to pay to action them.

    Yes but bhudson why is the alternative explanation that a Western satrap had outlived his usefulness as part of a wholesale cleanup by the US/UK in order to secure oil supplies for the foreseeable future since people like Gadaffi had made inconvenient noises re selling oil in things other than USD seemingly beyond your ken?

    You know the countries that didn’t used to have central reserve banks connected to the IMF? Libya, North Korea, Iran, Iraq.

    I mean take it or leave it, I don’t care either way. But consider the possibility that monetary strategy may, just may influence global geopolitics.

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  104. Nostalgia-NZ (5,099 comments) says:

    Scott Chris (3,693) Says:

    ‘February 18th, 2012 at 10:44 am
    Brian Smaller says:- “I would hope that the judge looking into compensation IGNORES partisan books from either side”

    It won’t matter what he sees. Unlike the lay jury, this judge possesses the experience and training necessary to sort the wheat from the chaff. There is no solid evidence to implicate Robin Bain in the murders whereas the physical evidence implicating David Bain as the killer is overwhelming.

    Shows how deluded Bain’s supporters are to even contemplate seeking compensation. As for Bain… well, he has no choice but to play along.’

    Where do you get such bs from. There’s a tonne of solid evidence against Robin Bain and underwhelming evidence against David. Do some authentic research for yourself.

    Don Mathias has no axe to grind, and at least did himself the justice of reading first, http://donmathias.wordpress.com/ . You on the other hand are sprouting long discredited nonsense.

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  105. Wetfootmammal (32 comments) says:

    Hi there Reid –

    I’ve been thinking when Goyim round-up time might be. Any predictions? I’m thinking it’s going to kick off around the time of the 2012 Zion Olympics. Certainly the free world is living on borrowed time. I still haven’t figured out how the possessed satanist types are going to carry out their mass-slaughter though. Any ideas?

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  106. EverlastingFire (286 comments) says:

    2 years = 1 life. NZ ‘justice’ system at work: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6441765/Parents-don-t-want-sons-killer-in-town

    (I thought the killer was a guy from the pic :D)

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  107. reid (16,227 comments) says:

    I still haven’t figured out how the possessed satanist types are going to carry out their mass-slaughter though. Any ideas?

    Lots Wetfoot however I’ve discovered that for some reason people on KB get disturbed if one talks about how the possessed satanist types are going to carry out their mass-slaughter. I haven’t quite figured out precisely why that is yet, I mean, go figure.

    People are just weird like that sometimes, aren’t they.

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  108. Nookin (3,274 comments) says:

    Well done Reid. I have a clear recollection that you were going to change name at 10,000 posts but can’t quite remember what it is to become.

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  109. Griff (7,403 comments) says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17082433
    Iran’s nuclear ambitions could plunge the Middle East into “a new Cold War”, the UK foreign secretary has warned.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17069455
    The UK has signed a deal with France to strengthen co-operation in the development of civil nuclear energy.

    posturing

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  110. reid (16,227 comments) says:

    Well done Reid.

    Thanks Nookin, but unfortunately what it takes is sitting on your arse for simply days if not months and there aren’t even any fireworks when you get here, so I’m disillusioned in my tummy making me a victim entitling me to compo, is the way I’ve started to see it now.

    philu you see has grown on me over the years.

    I shall change my name, probably tomorrow.

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  111. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    Nostalgia

    I’d be happy to debate the Bain case with you. You give me your top 10 pieces of evidence against Robin, and I’ll give you my top 10 pieces of evidence against David.

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  112. reid (16,227 comments) says:

    evidence against Robin

    1) Robin didn’t have a flash jersey like David did.

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  113. Nostalgia-NZ (5,099 comments) says:

    2 will do Scott Chris,

    How did Robin get blood smears on his palms.
    How did he get blood spatter on himself that was occluded as coming from his own wound.

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  114. big bruv (13,688 comments) says:

    It is not often that I agree with Scott Chris, however on the issue of David Bain I am very much in Scott’s corner.

    There is no solid evidence that points to Robin Bain, there is a truck load that points to David, it still amazes me that sane and rational people can still believe that David Bain is innocent.

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  115. Nostalgia-NZ (5,099 comments) says:

    ‘There is no solid evidence that points to Robin Bain, there is a truck load that points to David,’

    Pure hyperbole. You are welcome to give an explanation from the evidence that explains the 2 questions I’ve asked Scott.

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  116. Griff (7,403 comments) says:

    Is the first question not who had a motive?

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  117. big bruv (13,688 comments) says:

    Nostalgia

    If you can tell me how Robin managed to shoot the entire family without leaving a fingerprint on the gun then I might start taking you seriously.
    Or, perhaps you could tell me how Robin killed all of them without leaving any blood on his jersey?

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  118. Wetfootmammal (32 comments) says:

    To be honest Reid – i’ve barely met a sane person in my life. We’re all brought up on monumental delusions, and have been programmed that way for centuries. I’m just glad that our most righteous creator has a plan, because humanity has let the legions of hell take the whole world over.

    How do you think they are going to turn us on each other though? Starvation? Mind manipulation?

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  119. Nostalgia-NZ (5,099 comments) says:

    big bruv

    I can see how uncomfortable you are trying to answer my 2 questions. You’re asking ‘how’ something didn’t happen. I’m asking you to explain a fact, about something recorded in evidence that did happen. Anytime you’re ready, your welcome to answer my 2 simple questions.

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  120. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    Nostalgia – Here’s some food for thought, compiled by David Farrar I think:

    It was a lucky guess when David Bain told 111 ambulance officer they are all dead, despite later saying he only saw two bodies
    Again a lucky guess hen DB told police officer they are all dead
    The 25 minute gap between DB finding his family dead and calling 111 is in no way connected with trying to wash clothes and removed blood.
    The bruise on David’s head and scratches on his chest and graze on his knee – none of which he could explain, were just a coincidence
    The lens from his glasses found in Stephen’s room happened weeks ago and he never noticed OR someone else had borrowed the glasses
    The lack of fresh injuries on Robin despite the massive struggle with Stephen is just the product of healthy living
    David’s finger prints on gun are from a previous time
    David telling a friend he had premonition something bad was going to happen was a genuine psychic experience
    Stephen’s blood on David’s clothing was nothing to do with the struggle – OR someone else borrowed his clothes
    Robin managed to execute his family on a full bladder
    The lock and key to the rifle being found in David’s room is not relevant as they were obviously placed there
    Robin decided to wash David’s green jersey to remove blood and the fibres from jersey found under Steven’s finger nails
    David’s bloody palm print on the washing machine was from him checking the bodies
    The Ambulance officer was wrong when he said in his opinion Bain was pretending to have a fit
    Robin Bain would logically wear gloves to prevent fingerprints despite it being a murder-suicide
    That Robin Bain would type a message on a computer for David telling him he is the only one who deserves to live, instead of writing a note. A hand written note incidentally would have cleared David.
    Also that having just shot his family, and knowing David was due home, that Robin would wait 44 seconds for the computer to boot up to leave a message
    Robin would decide David deserved to live, but go out of his way to frame him for murder
    Robin Bain placed fibres from Davids jersey under Stephen’s finger nails
    Robin Bain would shoot himself with a gun in the most awkward way possible?
    That Robin Bain changed jerseys after he had killed his family and in particular Stephen Bain, washed the jersey, hung it on the line and then change into a brown jersey before killing himself?
    That there is a logical reason that David Bain can not account for the injuries on his face, the bruise or the scraped knee, yet knows he did not have them during his paper run.
    That Robin Bain put blood on the inside of David’s duvet and on his light switch
    That there is an innocent explanation for why David says he put on washing before he discovered the bodies, yet there is a blood print on the washing machine.
    That Laniet was being paranoid when she told friends she was scared of David
    That the “family meeting” David called the previous night and insisted everyone attended was not a way to make sure everyone would be at home to kill.
    That Robin Bain would wear a hat while shooting himself in the head.
    That even though David told a relative he hated his father, his father did not know this and deliberately decided David was the only one who deserved to live
    That David either imagined hearing Laniet gurgling or she gurgled 20 minutes after death
    That Laniet allegations of incent with Robin was true, as was her claims she had given birth three times by the age of 12 and a half.
    That Robin Bain managed to kill four family members without a single trace of his blood, skin, or DNA being left at the scene.
    That it is a coincidence that on the morning of the murders Bain took his dog onto a property, ensuring he would be noticed to give him an alibi.
    That the magazine found balanced on an edge next to Robin was not placed there by David but fell onto its edge from Robin’s arms.
    That a sickly Robin Bain managed to overpower his teendage son who put up a furious fight
    That Robin Bain went and got the newspaper from outside, despite planning to shoot himself

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  121. Nostalgia-NZ (5,099 comments) says:

    I’ll be happy to, straight after you explain my 2 questions.
    A’stonishingly easy for you I’m sure.
    Otherwise somebody might think you can’t answer them.

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  122. reid (16,227 comments) says:

    What’s his motive Scott, as Griff also asked above?

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  123. hiphip (92 comments) says:

    Gosh, Dave missed out on all that inheritance he might otherwise have got worth $600,000 today. At least the successful tall poppies aren’t around to make him feel bad anymore. Poor Robin. RIP. http://youtu.be/xpMXYYX5l8M

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  124. Nostalgia-NZ (5,099 comments) says:

    hiphip
    11.31

    How fantastic for you.
    Need a hanky?

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  125. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    I’d assume that his motive was greed. He’d be sole heir of the house.

    Say it was worth 150 grand. People have killed for a lot less.

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  126. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    “How did Robin get blood smears on his palms.”

    David put it there.

    “How did he get blood spatter on himself that was occluded as coming from his own wound.”

    Explain what this means.

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  127. Nostalgia-NZ (5,099 comments) says:

    Sure.
    Of course there is no evidence that David put any blood on David’s palms, your answer is guesswork that will not do I’m afraid. Guess work evidence does not make.
    As for the blood spatter, as it didn’t come from Robin’s wound it must have come from somebody else shot in the house that morning. I don’t want to stretch the ridiculousness that the spatter transported itself over great distances, including around corners to find itself on Robin’ shoe, so I’ll say he was in the murder scene of one of his family when they died. But you might have another explanation.

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  128. Griff (7,403 comments) says:

    Robin had a history that points towards a degree of instability that is gradually worsening
    The daughter was off the rails in way that is consistent to The story about incest.
    He had failing mightily as you could say.

    From wot i know about David he was a weirdo
    maybe a aspie or some non specific personality disorder.
    That just means he is wired” different”

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  129. Elaycee (4,356 comments) says:

    TV Programme maker Bryan Bruce has had a gutsful of the Karam fiction – he’s even called for a change in the defamation laws because of the amount of innuendo / lies being propagated against Robin Bain.

    The short audio of Bryan Bruce’s interview with Larry Williams (NewstalkZB) is here:

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/Auckland/player/ondemand/1673316674-Online-tribute-for-Robin-Bain

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  130. hiphip (92 comments) says:

    From a google search, there appears to be a site with a lot of useful information on the David Bain case: http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/ . I have to say, it is awful hearing people speak ill of the dead. I read an interesting article on line today. http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/6440132/Bain-defence-still-less-than-convincing But, that’s all I have to say on this never ending story. David should be ashamed of himself for what he did. Robin was an innocent victim, as were the rest of the Bain family. They do not deserve to have their reputations besmirched by people who never knew them.

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  131. reid (16,227 comments) says:

    I’d assume that his motive was greed. He’d be sole heir of the house.

    Say it was worth 150 grand. People have killed for a lot less.

    Really? You think he might not have thought that possibly the police might be looking closely at the only survivor? Not for 150k, not his whole family. Come on.

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  132. hiphip (92 comments) says:

    Hey. By chance, look what I found. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1387438/I-wrong-Jeremy-Bamber-says-crime-writer.html . Look a little familiar? Apparently, he did that for the money.

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  133. lee.hinkleman (17 comments) says:

    I wanted to suggest that David Bain could have planted blood smears, but that’s too stupid for words.
    Also, the “missing 20 minutes” never were missing. Sandra Wiblin(nee Bampton) testified that she first received
    the call, thinking it was a prank call, before 7 am. When Sandra Bampton’s workmate arrived at
    7 am, Bampton told her workmate, “You missed all the excitement”. Wiblin(Bampton) said she’d been
    waiting almost 15 years to correct the time value of “7:09″, which may have been the time the call was
    transferred from Hamilton to Dunedin.

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  134. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    Nostalgia

    So Robin’s dead body got some blood spatter on it. Say David shoots Robin, another family member investigates the noise, David shoots that other family member as they kneel in despair before the stricken Robin. Beyond the realms of possibility?

    You are clinging to two pieces of ambiguous evidence whilst ignoring all the unambiguous evidence against David. Just open your mind and read them and ask yourself if this evidence is stronger than the two points you allude to (is that all you’ve got BTW?):

    David’s Fingerprints in Blood were found on the Murder Rifle
    David Changed his Testimony Regarding Rooms he Visited before Dialing 111
    Broken Spectacles were found in David’s Room which David is likely to have Worn
    David had a Compelling Motive
    The gun belonged to David
    David Stated that he Heard Laniet Gurgling
    Blood on David’s clothes belonged to Stephen
    David had a Shooting Board Consisting of Five Targets in his Room
    David’s bloody palm-print found on the Washing Machine
    Suppressed Forensic evidence requested by Joe Karam points to Robin not committing suicide.
    Eyewitness Testimony of Plan to Commit an Act while on Paper Run
    David Bain Testified that he was the only Person who knew the location of the Trigger Lock Keys
    Testimony of David Intimidating his Family with his Gun
    The Empty Shell Casing.
    Robin Bain’s Body Appeared to have been moved
    Blood found on David’s Gondaliers shirt.
    David organised a Family Meeting for the night before the murders
    Blood stains found in David Bains room.
    David had injuries consistent with a fight with Stephen
    David had a premonition of horror.
    David Changed his Testimony regarding The Green Jersey
    The Rifle Magazine Appeared to be Planted next to Robin Bain’s Body
    There was Insufficient Time for the Wash Cycle to Complete as Testified by David Bain
    David Bains Bloody Gloves were Found in Stephen’s Room
    David had time to commit the murders and wash his clothes and clean the gun. Why did he wait, and then make out he was panicking on the phone to the police?

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  135. Nostalgia-NZ (5,099 comments) says:

    Lee there’s another show tonight on the case. Not a Bryan Brown mockumentary with dimmed lights and scene setting music so it want be very exciting for those with a short attention span and who prefer not to think for themselves. Maybe we’ll hear some more information about the spatter spray in the lounge that had no interruption or shielding. I was sort of hoping somebody might answer my 2 questions, just to narrow the focus down and away from all the rumour, some good old forensic proof that speaks of its own explanation.

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  136. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    reid

    He thought he had planned the perfect murder. He sets up his old man, even if he gets charged he gets acquitted, then he gets the house. He is a psychopath. The deaths of his family members mean nothing to him. He is 22 years old. He is stupid enough to think he can get away with it.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________

    Griff

    First you say:

    “The daughter was off the rails in way that is consistent to The story about incest.”

    Jumping to a big conclusion there. Even if there was incest, what percentage of incestuous fathers blow away all their entire family to hide the secret? One in a million maybe? And why would he leave David alive to spill the beans?

    Then you say:

    “maybe a aspie or some non specific personality disorder.”

    Another big conclusion jump. Maybe he did have Asperger’s as well, but the evidence overwhelmingly shows that he was a psychopath, so I guess you’re right. He does have a personality disorder.

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  137. Nostalgia-NZ (5,099 comments) says:

    Scott you can answer two of my questions, I only asked 2.

    But I take the first 6 of yours which are easy to answer. All my answers are from the evidence, not from a ‘secret’ site.

    David’s Fingerprints in Blood were found on the Murder Rifle
    David Changed his Testimony Regarding Rooms he Visited before Dialing 111
    Broken Spectacles were found in David’s Room which David is likely to have Worn
    David had a Compelling Motive
    The gun belonged to David
    David Stated that he Heard Laniet Gurgling

    David’s fingerprints were said to be found in blood on the rifle, in sharp relief because of pressure from his grip. However a forensic scientist explained to the jury that they were not in blood because the ‘blood’ showed to be the wrong colour under polilight, he testified that it was a scientific impossibility. In terms of the sharp relief of the lines I think even a child knows that fingerprints flatten under pressure, that is the nature of skin.

    David was in shock that morning as one would expect. But to put that shock in context one of the first officers attending the scene was unable to recall going into the laundry area despite being accompanied by another officer. Those first officers were all given special help for trauma in the days following the killings. It was a shocking scene and anybody that expects that David would recall in detail events as they unfolded when he got home that morning is frankly somewhat lost.

    Broken spectacles yes. Another piece of nonsense. Those are the broken spectacles belonging to his mother and from which a lens was ‘found’ in Stephens room under several items which even the police officer who found the lens conceded that it might have been there for some time. Of course it was dust covered and had not blood on it.

    David had no motive. Saying David had a compelling motive is absolute nonsense unless you identify it. Even the Crown didn’t present a motive.

    Yes the gun did belong to David and 20 spent shells and 1 live shell from it were found in Robin’s caravan.

    Yes, David did give evidence in the first trial of hearing his sister gurgle. From memory he also truthfully revealed that in his police statement. The police pathologist wrote to the Crown prioer to the trial with information from a more recent situation of a body emitting a gurgle and eventually recorded in evidence that what David heard was quite feasible to have happened after he came home from the paper round and found his family dead.

    You’re taking information from the wrong sources. Either use the transcript or Karam’s book. Despite what van beynan says Karam’s book isn’t the defence case, in fact the 1st hundred pages or more is the Crown case from it’s earliest formation and the faults and misapprehensions are apparent. That is why Don Mathias has spoken out so strongly in his review.

    If you are going to debate false material from a secret site, there is no point. But if you want to debate the authenticated facts that would be productive, more than likely you would reach the same conclusion the Jury did.

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  138. Nostalgia-NZ (5,099 comments) says:

    Have to pull you up now Scott Chris. Where is the evidence that says this…,’but the evidence overwhelmingly shows that he was a psychopath, so I guess you’re right. He does have a personality disorder.’

    No such evidence exists however there is evidence to the contrary revealed at the trial. What are your sources, don’t you understand your obligation to be truthful when discussing a person you identify in public?

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  139. lee.hinkleman (17 comments) says:

    How could anyone persuade, or force, a wide-awake man to press his head squarely against
    the end of a rifle barrel?
    Hypnosis?
    Drugs?
    Handcuffs, duct tape, or other forms of restraint?
    …just ask him to check, to see if something’s stuck in the barrel?

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  140. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    Nostalgia

    You seem desperately keen to explain away all the evidence implicating David Bain, and yet you unquestioningly accept the exceedingly tenuous case made against Robin.

    Like the jury in the final trial, you have allowed your emotions and sympathies to over-rule your rationale.

    I can’t argue against emotion, so I’ll leave you with your delusions.

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  141. hiphip (92 comments) says:

    As far as I am concerned, anyone who cannot see by now David Bain IS GUILTY of the cold blooded murders of five members of his family is a lost cause. http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/evidence-david .Have some respect for the dead. I think a lot of people will get angry with the continuing vilification of an innocent man and rightly so. http://youtu.be/xpMXYYX5l8M . David Bain should just quit while he is ahead.

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  142. Elaycee (4,356 comments) says:

    @hiphip: How true.

    Karam (and his disciples) have been overcome by a malaise best described here:

    “…you start with an untruth and build upon it with more lies and distortions, confusing the audience with the volume of misinformation. It’s a topsy turvy world in which propaganda overturns facts… ”

    And you’re right – Robin Bain is the easy target because he can’t defend himself. He was murdered.

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  143. Nostalgia-NZ (5,099 comments) says:

    Scott Chris 9.01

    I guess those 2 questions were too hard for you. One of them was too hard for the police also so they didn’t submit the photo to the jury in the 1st trial showing the blood on Robin’s palms. As for the second question, the police didn’t ask themselves about that all it seems but it was a sure sign Robin was walking about the house at the time of the killings.

    Pleased to leave it here, very uncomfortable with you making unsubstaniated claims against David in public on a message board you don’t own.

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  144. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    apparently the defence opposed further testing on some exhibits, which could lead to the conclusion that they were not confident about what the results might imply. While if Laney was concerned she was running late as a result of observing Bain’s progress on his paper run, but in hindsight realises she was not late after all, then wouldn’t it be a reasonable conclusion that Bain was in fact ahead of time on his paper run, in which case he’d be home in time to turn on the computer?

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  145. Nostalgia-NZ (5,099 comments) says:

    Dean Papa 11.33

    It could also lead to the more realistic conclusion that the Crown had over a dozen years to conduct their tests on items the defence decided were not material enough to overcome the great yawning gaps in the prosecution.

    You must think van beynan’s account of his ‘conversation’ with Mrs Laney is evidence, well it isn’t.

    The best pointer for you is to pay attention to the fact that the Crown accept the 2nd Jury’s decision. They gave it their best shot, wasted millions and were never able to turn a simple murder/suicide into anything but that which it was. Refer to my 2 questions above if you think you can resolve Robin’s suicide.

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  146. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    DNA testing has advanced considerably since the first trial, the only plausible reason the defence would oppose further testing is because they are scared of what the results could imply. Like Karam having wasted the last 15 years of his life.

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  147. Nostalgia-NZ (5,099 comments) says:

    Yes, pity the Crown destroyed so much evidence. What was the reason they gave? Oh yes, the boy’s didn’t like body fluids in the police station. But turn you mind to the two simple questions that prove Robin Bain’s suicide Dean, a little to hard?

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  148. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    can you elaborate on the validity of those two questions, if you don’t mind.

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