General Debate 3 February 2012

February 3rd, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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100 Responses to “General Debate 3 February 2012”

  1. Pete George (22,868 comments) says:

    Does Waitangi Day fill you with patriotic pride?

    Or do you roll your eyes and wonder what protest popups will piss on it?

    Waitangi – pride or protest?

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  2. Brian Harmer (686 comments) says:

    A female friend asked me about the sevens. Why do so many men harbour this desire to dress in women’s clothes?

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  3. flipper (3,595 comments) says:

    Here we go again…. TVNZ (this morning, for example) is continuing to promote global warming crap.

    NASA sends a specialised reconnaissance aircraft to NZ to conduct tests over the Antarctic.
    Naturally (because it occurs continually) they spot a large chunk of glacier ice in the process of breaking into a massive iceberg.
    Our Dumbo “reporters” then spout words of “wisdom” on what happens when ice dissolves in water.
    This, they say, is what is causing sea levels to rise.

    Well, putting aside the fact that there has been no measurable (well, not meaningful in past 150 years) sea level increase, it would be helpful if before our weird and wonderful left wing, dummy-like TVNZ permitted their “reporters” to editorialise, they actually had some basic education.

    The overpaid TVNZ editors and producers might conduct a simple test:
    1. Take a clear glass; fill to a level of, say, two thirds with water.
    2. Insert three or four (or as many as you wish) ice cubes.
    3. Mark the water level on the glass.
    4. Wait for the ice to melt.
    5. Check the water level.

    The result, dear children, will be no change in water level.
    Don’t agree? Try it.

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  4. KiwiGreg (3,181 comments) says:

    @ Pete I’ve tried to explain it to American friends with limited success. Cause its NOTHING like July 4th, it’s not even remotely like Australia Day, it’s more like national cringe day. ANZAC day is the holiday most resembling a day of national pride in New Zealand.

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  5. laworder (270 comments) says:

    Saw this in the Scientist a little while back – the “1-2 glasses of wine a day is good for your health” alcohol researcher got caught making shit up

    http://the-scientist.com/2012/01/13/wine-researcher-caught-faking/

    Always suspected that was bollocks

    Regards
    Peter J
    Webmaster for http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz

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  6. Brian Smaller (4,001 comments) says:

    Saw this case on TV last night. Slavery? They are “students” only allowed to work 25 hours per week on their visa. They can always quit if their boss is such a cunt. If that means they have to go home, then tough, they should have thought about that before coming to NZ as “students”.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6358663/Sexual-harassment-claim-in-slave-case

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  7. adze (1,873 comments) says:

    Flipper
    I don’t really have a dog in the AGW debate (I don’t know enough about it); but the ice cube in water experiment is not terribly convincing. Because unlike the Arctic, Antarctica is a continent. Glacial ice flows off the land into the sea. So a better experiment would be to add ice cubes to the glass of water.

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  8. kowtow (7,656 comments) says:

    Waitangi day and the gradual but relentless maorification of New zealand by elitist institutions makes my blood boil.

    RNZ serve it up daily with their tokenist sentences of introduction to just about everything.
    TV7 Back Bench hosts do it all the time. This week they told us TOE PAW is how you pronounce Taupo, then went on to commit the “error” of saying Taupo,yuo know ,how the locals say it,not the Wellingtonian glitterari.The weather people do it etc.

    And wait for this weekend when the PM comes up with his solution to the Section 9 debacle. What bloody principles?They are undefined and the treaty is not a founding document.

    Waitangi,where white NZ goes to be assaulted and insulted. Scrap it.

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  9. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    Unfortunately we dont have a celebrated national day here in NZ. Waitangi day is just a suck up to maori and a platform for more IWI..I want it. Waitangi day means naf to me. If Im lucky I get to work …time and half day in lieu. Cha ching , thanks very much.

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  10. Longknives (4,481 comments) says:

    RIP Angelo Dundee- His guile saved Muhammad Ali from a few tricky situations…

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  11. Longknives (4,481 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6359946/Mana-Key-set-for-hostile-Waitangi-reception

    Why even go John?? Most New Zealanders wouldn’t blame you for staying at home and avoiding this pathetic nonsense…

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  12. tom hunter (4,437 comments) says:

    It’s actually nice to see that, after decades of relentless abuse of Old Zealand, people still have enough national pride to be angry about the abuse.

    It’s actually kind of sweet and sad at the same time: bathetic perhaps?

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  13. Ryan Sproull (7,033 comments) says:

    The overpaid TVNZ editors and producers might conduct a simple test:
    1. Take a clear glass; fill to a level of, say, two thirds with water.
    2. Insert three or four (or as many as you wish) ice cubes.
    3. Mark the water level on the glass.
    4. Wait for the ice to melt.
    5. Check the water level.

    The result, dear children, will be no change in water level.
    Don’t agree? Try it.

    True for ice that was in the water all along (Arctic). Not true for ice that’s been added from land (most of Antarctic ice).

    1. Take a clear glass; fill to a level of, say, two thirds with water.
    2. Mark the water level on the glass.
    3. Insert three or four (or as many as you wish) ice cubes.
    4. Wait for the ice to melt. Or don’t. Either way.
    5. Check the water level.

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  14. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Do you reckon she’s getting it handed to her on a platter or are the unions are fresh out?

    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2012/02/good-luck-luv-youll-be-needing-it.html

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  15. wreck1080 (3,736 comments) says:

    The IRD want 1.5 billion to replace their computer system!!

    WTF? When do these muppets learn?

    As soon as I see such numbers, I know that this will fail. The money is so big, and , the fingers in the pie so many .

    There will be incorrect technology choices, scope creep, severe performance issues, followed by bickering over contract breaches (the supplier will be right, due to scope changes), followed by the dumping of the primary supplier and possibly court action.

    Such is often the case with huge projects such as this. The risk is huge, even commercial entities have probs with such projects (see telecom’s next gen billing system from a few years back, I hear they spent a shitload, but still use ICMS).

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  16. flipper (3,595 comments) says:

    et al…..

    Try the experiment.,.,,.let us not become prisoners to the AGW BS

    Antc v Arct? Yes,prima face, but it has always been thus. Does not disprove the ice /glass theory. Add in evaporation and other mntters and ????

    So, dear children, why no proven rise in sea levels?

    Are we about nitpicks or reality?

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  17. Elaycee (4,305 comments) says:

    Yup… agree that its time that the PM gave Waitangi Day a miss. I can write most of the script now:

    Media will be expected to pay for the ‘privilege’ of reporting the news. They will express ‘outrage’ and the ‘story’ will feature in the first news items on TeeVee tonight. In fact, I see this rort has already taken the form of a ‘koha’ – a charge by any other name.

    On Waitangi Day, Titiwhai Harawira will muscle in / grab the arm of the PM and ‘escort’ him onto a marae… whilst basking in her moment of exposure via a fawning media. And the PM will look embarrassed by it all – as anyone would.

    Some morons will be there trying to grab a (temporary) name for themselves by shouting / pushing / throwing stuff at the PM. And the fawning media will lap it up.

    ‘Protesters’ will be there – most likely this will include some of the morons and hippies from Body Odour Central who will have made a taxpayer funded trip north. The signs will be recycled from last year – but the media will report breathlessly on the ‘level of protest’ against the Government / the PM / the National Party / partial asset sales etc – you know its going to happen. And the airhead TeeVee reporters will fluff their lines – and will still have the usual muscular affliction that looks like they’re patting a dog just out of shot, as they speak.

    Nothing new. Same as last year. And nothing to celebrate.

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  18. Ryan Sproull (7,033 comments) says:

    et al…..

    Try the experiment.,.,,.let us not become prisoners to the AGW BS

    Antc v Arct? Yes,prima face, but it has always been thus.

    So, dear children, why no proven rise in sea levels?

    Are we about nitpicks or freality?

    Try my experiment. Whether or not the sea levels are rising, they certainly would if you picked up the ice covering the Antarctic continent and dumped it in the ocean. The question is, how much ice is coming off that land?

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  19. flipper (3,595 comments) says:

    Ryan
    Crap!

    What will be will be.

    Suck on TVNZ for your salary.

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  20. travellerev (149 comments) says:

    Happy hunting for Zionist fundamentalists or why I will keep on speaking up against the “apartheid” state of Israel

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  21. Griff (6,848 comments) says:

    Elaycee
    so true

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  22. tom hunter (4,437 comments) says:

    flipper – no one has more contempt for some of the lousy science, and even lousier, unscientific behaviour of some of the scientists involved, not to mention the godawful “solutions” that have been promoted relentlessly as part of the whole AGW debate.

    But on this point you are wrong and Ryan Sproull is right. You’ve confused arguments about the Arctic – where you are correct – with the Antarctic. When ice that is already floating, melts, it does not change the water level. When ice that has been sitting on land, melts and flows to the sea, it will raise the water level.

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  23. flipper (3,595 comments) says:

    tom hunter…
    To the extent that the sea level BS can or cannot be established…. lets get real here …
    But, yes, Antarc is different to Arc..,.
    So, apology oops, Ryan
    F

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  24. Mick Mac (1,091 comments) says:

    travellerev (110) Says:
    February 3rd, 2012 at 10:10 am

    Unlike the Palestinians, the Jewish people aren’t an invented people, no matter how many Israel hating Jews you quote on your web site..
    FYI there already is a Palestinian state, it is called Jordan and was formed from 80% of the Jewish mandate by the British.

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  25. david (2,539 comments) says:

    tom, ryan et al ….
    and the ice got onto the continent how? Why, by evaporation and subsequent precipitation as snow of course. And the source of the water vapour is ? Why it is the oceans of course.

    Silly me here I was almost convinced that you only needed to discuss one side of an equation to prove a theorem. DUH

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  26. tom hunter (4,437 comments) says:

    david – I’m glad to see you understand the other side of the equation. I was almost going to write about the Bering Land Bridge, but I figured that was self-evident.

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  27. Ryan Sproull (7,033 comments) says:

    tom hunter…
    To the extent that the sea level BS can or cannot be established…. lets get real here …
    But, yes, Antarc is different to Arc..,.
    So, apology oops, Ryan
    F

    No worries, bud. There’s also a theory that arctic ice is useful for reflecting heat back into space, so that melting the floating ice could be a problem for that reason, rather than because it would raise ocean levels (which it wouldn’t, as you pointed out).

    and the ice got onto the continent how? Why, by evaporation and subsequent precipitation as snow of course. And the source of the water vapour is ? Why it is the oceans of course.

    Yep, but it’s been there for a long time, that ice. At the moment it’s not part of the cycle of evaporate, precipitate, freeze, melt. And when it was part of that cycle, geological ages ago, the sea levels were higher.

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  28. wf (376 comments) says:

    @ kowtow – I occasionally listen to Radio Live, and am amused by the various pronunciations of Taupo in the commercials.
    Best one so far is Tipoo, accent on the poo.

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  29. kowtow (7,656 comments) says:

    wf
    :)

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  30. RightNow (6,679 comments) says:

    Isostatic rebound!

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  31. Brian Smaller (4,001 comments) says:

    I pronounce Taupo “Shithole to drive through on the way north”

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  32. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    # Brian Smaller (3,389) Says:
    February 3rd, 2012 at 9:00 am

    Saw this case on TV last night. Slavery? They are “students” only allowed to work 25 hours per week on their visa. They can always quit if their boss is such a cunt. If that means they have to go home, then tough, they should have thought about that before coming to NZ as “students”.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6358663/Sexual-harassment-claim-in-slave-case

    None of that really justifies any of the things the owner is alleged to have done. I sure hope you aren’t an employer with that type of attitude.

    Students are allowed to work up to 20 hours per week. The shifts they were working sound pretty short if they were only 9pm to 2am. That’s 5 hours. If they did 4 such shifts in a week that would still be within what is permitted. Have they admitted working over 20 hours per week? The article you cited just seems to say the boss threatened that he would go to immigration with the accusation. That threat may just be a way to coerce the students into doing whatever he wanted including forcing them to work in excess of 20 hours for $5 an hour.

    In any case, no breach of a student permit justifies the exploitation that is alleged to have occurred including sexual harassment. Are you telling us that if a foreign student works more than 20 hours then you think it’s just fine to sexually harass them because they can quit? If so that’s sick. It’s also hypocritical as you seem to think migrants should have to obey the rules but not an employer.

    edit: Just another note they are permitted to work full time during the Christmas/New Year period between academic semesters.

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  33. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    wreck1080 @ 9.54

    Excellent point.
    i think it was police commissioner Doone that had another brilliant idea that sent about a billion dollars
    down the shithole.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INCIS

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  34. RightNow (6,679 comments) says:

    “Scientists have shown that a newly discovered molecule in Earth’s atmosphere has the potential to play a significant role in off-setting global warming by cooling the planet.”
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120112142232.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criegee_biradical

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  35. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    adze (1,078) Says:
    February 2nd, 2012 at 7:12 pm
    Luc

    I’m hoping DPF can use his direct line to Bill English’s office and ask him for the research that led him to say, “There is now clear evidence that class size doesn’t matter”.

    The research comes from Prof. John Hattie; it shows (linked below) that students and teachers themselves account for around 80% of achievement variance, while schools (including factors such as class size, their finances etc) account for only 5-10% of achievement in school. Not quite the same as “class size doesn’t matter”; but English is a politician after all, not an academic.

    http://www.annedavies.com/pdf/19c_expertteachers_hattie.pdf

    Btw did you see my question to you yesterday? I would be interested in your reply if you have time, thanks.

    Luc, can I ask you a a genuine question? Out of all the atrocities that are committed in the world today – some of which have been mentioned in this thread, and which get far less publicity than the plight of Palestinians – why do you focus exclusively on those committed within the Judeochristian/Western milieu?

    Adze, it appears we work to different timeframes.

    Thanks for that link. An article in the Herald this morning also mentioned John Hatties’ book, Visible Learning, as a source for English’s latest inspiration for the age old National Party obsession with teacher bashing.

    Of course, this is but one interpretation of the data, and I would need to study the book to see if this is a fair reflection of Hattie’s findings and study responses to those findings. I’ve got it on order.

    I do wonder just what is in English’s mind here, anyway, as agreed class sizes are often honored in breach rather than adhered to in some rigid fashion – I know this will come as a surprise to those who prefer to think of teachers as inflexible and dogmatic!

    Wat Dabney also triumphantly posted a link presuming to prove class size is irrelevant, but I did like this comment to it:

    Class Size does not matter, nor does instructor training “uncorrelated”
    and yet:
    frequent teacher feedback
    the use of data to guide instruction
    high-dosage tutoring
    increased instructional time
    high expectations
    are correlated with student success in the .5 range.

    Pants on head stupid analysis of the data set. The above 5 items all indicate well trained instructors with lots of time to spend with individual students.

    I’m also a bit wary of studies from such a poor performing country.

    Another view, the latest BBC Analysis programme, not specifically on class sizes, but on the factors relating to school achievement levels, can be accessed here:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01b9hjs#synopsis

    In it, a leading academic researcher suggests that out of school factors i.e. socio-economic stuff, account for 90% of the performance of a student, leaving only 10% for the school, including environment, principals, teachers, class sizes, do gooders and what have you.

    One principal of a high decile school said in her view she could just tell her kids to sit on the lawn all day and they would do just as well because of their home environment!

    And it suggests that school league tables are meaningless endeavors.

    I have no fixed view on class size per se, except that it’s fairly obvious that the smaller the class, the more attention each child can get.

    By default, from long experience, I am wary of politicians natural tendency for perverting research to justify whatever self-serving ideology they are adhering to at any particular time (English is desperate to find money to offset his beloved tax cuts, which will themselves, eventually, be seen for the almost treasonous act they are in this fiscal climate).

    Generally, rather than follow best practice in looking to improve education outcomes, we are dredging the poorly performing countries for ideas.

    As president-in-waiting Mitt Romney would say, if an executive came to me with such a stupid idea, I’d fire him!

    Mitt likes firing people.

    Now addressing your question on the Question of Palestine, I don’t exclusively devote myself to the Palestinian cause. To the disgust of many Kiwibloggers, my default sympathies are with indigenous peoples who have been subject to European colonization with consequences ranging from genocide, to almost complete extermination, to loss of land and resources, to slavery, or to being condemned to live as totally marginalized members of society.

    Palestine is the last remaining such colonization project, at least, to my knowledge. It is currently enforced by belligerent and brutal occupation with the aim of completely dispossessing the indigenous people of their ancestral lands. This fits the international definition of genocide.

    It also, just in case you have not noticed, exercises most on here who are rabid supporters of the occupiers – some kind of European tribal mentality, I guess.

    If no-one brought it up here, I would rarely, if ever, post on it here.

    Just above, for example, Mick Mac posts yet more Zionist tropes. It’s all so pathetic. The depth of my reading on this matter can be seen in the reading list on my blog on this matter. I must update it. You will see jewish sources, Israeli sources and Palestinian sources. I doubt many here have dared read anything by a Palestinian! The UN also hold extensive files on the matter. There are many surprises in these files, mainly that simply dispel so many Israeli lies.

    My views on settlement of the current situation are best espoused by Norman Finkelstein, Google him or watch his talk last year:

    http://www.lannan.org/events/norman-finkelstein-with-chris-hedges/

    And for perspectives on this and wider issues just browse all their 2011 presentations:

    http://www.lannan.org/events/season/2011/

    And I like this quote I found in a Finkelstein book (This time We Went Too Far):

    Q. What do you feel is the most acceptable solution to the Palestine problem?

    A. (Mahatma Ghandhi) The abandonment wholly of terrorism and all forms of violence by the Jews.

    ! June 1947.

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  36. RightNow (6,679 comments) says:

    The Harvard Gazette has a couple of interesting articles for those interested in climate and environment.

    “Of orbits and ice ages:
    Researcher confirms that axis shifts help to propel temperature changes”
    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/01/of-orbits-and-ice-ages/

    “Ice sheet in peril? Gravity to the rescue
    New research details how sea level drop could be opposite of expectations”
    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/12/ice-sheet-in-peril-gravity-to-rescue/

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  37. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Wonder if this lovely lady hails fron Famers Cres?
    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2012/02/whatcha-goin-to-do-nikki.html

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  38. kowtow (7,656 comments) says:

    “It is alarming and nauseating to see Mr Gandhi, a seditious middle temple lawyer,now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the east,striding half naked up the steps of the vice regal palace,while he is still organising and conducting a defiant campaign of civil disobedience, to parley on equal terms with the representative of the King -Emperor”
    Winston Churchill.

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  39. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    dime’s police force.
    http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/21440-police-improper-deportation-case.html

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  40. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    so the police wouldn’t tell lies in court would they.
    This statement in court by the police is contrary to everything that has been said in the past.

    Dotcom appealing bail decision

    Friday, 3, Feb, 2012 12:54PM

    Kim Dotcom is trying to convince a High Court judge to let him out of jail until an extradition hearing takes place.

    The Megaupload founder has gone into the witness box as he appeals an earlier District Court decision to deny him bail.

    He’s being questioned by the lawyer acting on behalf of the United States.

    She’s presented evidence from the police saying Dotcom fled from them when they arrived at his Coatesville mansion.

    But Dotcom says police are lying and he willingly gave himself up.

    He maintains he is not a flight risk and has no funds available as his assets have been seized

    http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/news/news-story.cfm?content_id=826771

    Hopefully the Judge will have them for contempt.

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  41. tom hunter (4,437 comments) says:

    Many years ago an Indian friend of mine in America presented me with a birthday gift of Ghandhi’s autobiography, published in 1923, years before the events in India that would bring him wider fame.

    All I knew of him at the time was what I’d seen in the movie version of his life, so I eagerly read the book. Sadly, by the end of the book, I found that my opinion had dropped considerably. To put it bluntly he came across as utterly weird. It was not his call against the human propensity for violence or eating meat – I knew about those. But it turned out that he wanted his wife to give up having sex with him, and there were other aspects of humanity that he wanted to abjure. I came away thinking that he actually loathed being human himself.

    In short, not the sort of man one would actually want to have as a moral or ethical guide.

    With that in mind it pays to turn to other pieces of advice that Ghandhi gave to the Jews in his lifetime. In regard to the particulars of Arab violence he said that the Jews should:

    …..offer themselves to be shot or thrown in to the Dead Sea without raising a little finger against them.

    Which is consistent with his advice in responding to Nazi violence:

    The calculated violence of Hitler may even result in a general massacre of the Jews by way of his first answer to the declaration of such hostilities. But if the Jewish mind could be prepared for voluntary suffering, even the massacre I have imaged could be turned into a day of thanksgiving and joy that Jehovah had wrought deliverance of the race even at the hands of the tyrant

    I guess the real problem was that Jewish minds were not prepared for voluntary suffering and fell into it unknowingly.

    However, in the same letter in which he advised the Dead Sea solution to the Jews he had this to say about Arab violence:

    I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regarded as an unwarrantable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.

    I say that makes Ghandhi a hypocrite – and that’s at best. The inconsistency of his advice about non-violence in general and to Jews specifically has raised quite a few questions about his attitude towards Jews in general, particularly given his South African experiences.

    Fortunately, the Jews have learned from all this that they can never rely again on anybody else to save them – certainly not the European peoples or people around the world like like Luc – as conservative Douglas Murray pointed out in this recent Oxford Union debate.

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  42. kowtow (7,656 comments) says:

    Gandhi was using the Jews as sacrificial lambs in the big picture of Indian politics. The real issue in India was of course relations between the Hindu majority and the muslim minority.
    Even back then the Muslim Indians were restive about Jewish emigration to the Mandate .So it has nothing to do with spirituality and everything to do with the practical politics of India.And when India is the prize,heck what’s a few Jews?

    And as the Muslims proved they weren’t going to live with the Hindus, the rest as they say is history.

    ps favourite scenes from the movie? General Dyer’s response to would you have brought in the armoured car if you could?

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  43. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Save them from whom, Tom?

    I agree that Jews have good historical reason to fear Europeans, rather than Muslims or Arabs in general, but those days are long gone and Europe has, thankfully, changed.

    Furthermore, one injustice does not justify another – one visited upon a people who are denied the very rights Israelis demand, and have achieved, for themselves.

    I think it’s very easy to decontextualise quotes from long dead people, or to fail to recognize that people evolve through time. Without doubt, Gandhi was an extreme ascetic, and you would find out more details if you could just steel yourself to watch the video of Norman Finklestein via the link I posted above, but that does not invalidate his entire life.

    For example, when he arrived in America he was asked what he thought of western civilization. He thought, and then replied that it would be a very good idea!

    That’s what I call timeless wisdom.

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  44. lilman (894 comments) says:

    LUC HANSEN- LUC FUCKEN HANSEN

    Just wondering how the trip to Afghanistan went with your daughter Luc, did you take it?
    Was sure you would have,after all they are reasonable people the Taliban and others of the rag head nations.
    How many bibles did you hand out over there,bet you were treated with respect and consideration.

    Luc Hansen , the Great Apoligist.
    Global warming is real ,because of” Luc Fucken Hansen”.Acomplete waste of air,effort and questionable sperm.

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  45. dime (9,473 comments) says:

    viking2 (cop hater) – this is what the police force would look like if i was PM

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Viral-Poster-for-Rampart-Is-Chilling-to-the-Bone-250337.shtml

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  46. F E Smith (3,302 comments) says:

    So Luc returns with his Jew-hatred yet again, complaining that the Palestinians are denied self-determination by the nasty Zionists. Of course, there is no mention of the years between 1948 and 1967, because then it was the nasty Muslims who were denying the Palestinians self-determination.

    Or, speaking of self-determination, how about the fact that there hasn’t been a general election in the PA since January 2006, and that Hamas seemed to think it was ok to murder its opponents in 2007? That to go with the desire of Hamas to promote murder of the Jews at any and every opportunity it gets!

    Luc, you can go on all you like pretending that you are a humanitarian, but we here know better and can see the poison that you spread with your arguments. Yet, despite all of that, you can say what you like because the right wing is committed to freedom of speech, unlike your beloved lefties.

    Aren’t we nice!

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  47. kowtow (7,656 comments) says:

    More proof,as if any was needed, that lefty feminists are control freaks with no sense of humour.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9057960/Top-Totty-beer-deemed-far-too-fruity-for-House-of-Commons-bar.html

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  48. dime (9,473 comments) says:

    opps. that didnt show the full poster..

    http://www.slashfilm.com/exclusive-viral-poster-rampart-reveals-woody-harrelson-beating-man/

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  49. kowtow (7,656 comments) says:

    White out of control cop beats up black guy.More Hollywood reverse racism. Duelling banjos anyone?

    http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine/issue/2008/9/god-man-hollywood-politically-incorrect-cinema-from-the-birth-of-a-nation-to-the-passion-of-the-christ-by-mark-royden-winchell

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  50. Elaycee (4,305 comments) says:

    “If no-one brought it up here, I would rarely, if ever, post on it here.”

    Oh, bollocks. You simply love the attention you receive from being a purveyor of propaganda supporting the Hamas terrorists. You even wrote recently: “I saw this thread and thought I would pop in to see if I was mentioned….” so your motive to comment is driven by total narcissism. Rather pathetic, really.

    If you stopped your propaganda war on behalf of the Hamas terrorists, then people wouldn’t be compelled to respond with the facts correcting your spin. And if you stopped telling lies, then people wouldn’t have to point them out either. The solution is simple.

    So – all fixed. Now you don’t have to mention the Hamas terrorists again.

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  51. Nostalgia-NZ (4,918 comments) says:

    Viking 1.28

    I heard part of that on the radio and wondered how remaining in your own house could be described as fleeing. I think it’s unfortunate that such emphasis is being put on the firearms. Dotcom has no record of violence and didn’t present a firearm at the police – seems to be getting right away from the point, but maybe that’s what the whole case is about. The hype about firearms has been leaked, leaked, leaked throughout this event – even before he appeared in Court. Painting by numbers.

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  52. Scott Chris (5,896 comments) says:

    “But it turned out that he wanted his wife to give up having sex with him, and there were other aspects of humanity that he wanted to abjure.”

    Common idea amongst those who wish to objectify desire. Fasting and meditating is a similar exercise designed to separate the “body” from the “spirit” through mental discipline. Flaggelists may have a similar objective.

    In theory, once the animal has been tamed and you have trained your mind to be detached* from pain and envy and pride and desire etc, you will transcend your body and become enlightened. Similar to Buddhism.

    *detached in the sense that your body still feels the pain etc, but you become indifferent to it as it is merely a sensation.

    Useful exercise for those who are that way inclined, even if the premise is flawed. (though I doubt anyone ever “transcends” their pride even if they think they have)

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  53. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    On one hand Kim Dotcom has his supporters who just naturaly hate police, such as Viking2

    Why they hate the police is of course, a matter for them.
    (One thing you can be sure of is that if they ever get into trouble the first thing they scream is, ‘Help police.’)

    On the same hand you have idiots.

    i was discussing the Dotcom matter with one of his apologists yesterday and asked her, “Why are you
    going to bat for Dotcom and Megaupload ?’

    She said, ” Because now I can’t download movies for free.”

    i replied, ‘why do you think anyone would bother to spend the time and money in the future to make
    movies or record songs if they weren’t going to earn any money from it because Kim Dotcom made it available free
    and they couldn’t earn any royalties ?’

    She had no answer.
    Maybe a cop hater like Viking2 has an answer.

    All the cop haters here can talk up a great storm against the police.
    They are misguided.

    Justice will prevail in spite of them.

    Kim Dotcom, if he is found guilty in the fair and honest legal system that we have
    will be relieved of his millions and spend a period in a Federal Penitientiary to ponder the errors of his ways.

    If he is found to be not guilty, fair enough.

    If Viking2 and his mates think the system is corrupt maybe they could tell us which system of law
    and order, anywhere in the world, they do respect.

    Hey, Viking2 Put up or shut up.

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  54. Griff (6,848 comments) says:

    “Kim Dotcom, if he is found guilty in the fair and honest legal system that we have
    will be relieved of his millions and spend a period in a Federal Penitientiary to ponder the errors of his ways”

    So you are a yank
    explains a lot

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  55. Pete George (22,868 comments) says:

    “if he is found guilty in the fair and honest legal system that we have”

    He won’t be found guilty here, all we have been asked to do is hand him over to the US and their legal system.

    There may be more to this than has been revealed, if not this could be shaping up to be a case of us being used by the US to smack down something inconvenient to some of their businesses. I hope that’s not what it is.

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  56. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    bereal,


    i replied, ‘why do you think anyone would bother to spend the time and money in the future to make
    movies or record songs if they weren’t going to earn any money from it because Kim Dotcom made it available free
    and they couldn’t earn any royalties ?’

    Money can be made while offering certain products for free. Plenty of music is available free of charge on Youtube. There are viable business models other than expecting people to pay $30 for a disc with only one song they like on it.

    In any case where is your evidence that Kim Dotcom “made it available”? If the authorities haven’t produced their evidence then I’m sure you don’t have it.

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  57. chiz (1,119 comments) says:

    laworder:Saw this in the Scientist a little while back – the “1-2 glasses of wine a day is good for your health” alcohol researcher got caught making shit up

    Well, other researchers also claim to have found evidnce for the health benefits of wine, not just him, although it universally accepted. Unsurprisingly, the guy has now hired lawyers and is claiming that he is innocent. Among other things he claims that the university’s report into him, at 60,000 pages (!!!), was too large for him to download and read (and refute).

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  58. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Oh Jeez,
    Bend a pin, put a worm on it, drop it into the stream and guess what ?
    Hooked and landed 3 out of 3
    Griff, Pete George and Weihana. (missed Viking2 , he did not bite yet)

    Dear girls,
    i can’t waste my time going through your drivel point by point. But, try this for a start.

    i am not a Yank. i am born and raised a Kiwi.
    i believe in the rule of law.
    i don’t believe that New Zealand Police are up to be manipulated by the FBI or ANY outside agency.
    i believe NZ Police is an honest agency they and are able to be scrutinised and held to account for their actions.

    i respect and have faith in the NZ Police.

    i recognise that our Justice system has righteous links with and cooperates with other
    reputable law enforcement agencies throughout the world for our mutual benefit.

    So, when a legal request is recieved by us from an agency we cooperate with we act on it.

    (kind of like when the US Marshals acted on our behalf and detained and returned to us the bloke who
    has since been convictedof murdering the mother of Little Pumkin recently. )

    i don’t have any evidence about Dotcom either way (Weihana) i don’t care about that, i don’t need to.
    That is not the issue, i have no axe to grind whatsoever.
    As i respect both our justice system and that of the US i trust them both that Dotcom will get a fair go
    from both under both our laws.

    He will be able to defend himself ( and in his case, with the very best legal representation money can buy.)

    Eventually he will be found to have broken the law or not.

    Where do you 3 have any problem with any of that ?

    Also, what actually is your problem ?

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  59. Other_Andy (2,327 comments) says:

    Fudging the numbers

    Remember the claim that wharfies were paid about $27 an hour?
    They of course didn’t mention the amount of overtime, extra entitlements and payments for hours they didn’t work.
    Now the outcry of Labour and Maori about the sale of the 16 Crafar farms to the Chinese. They didn’t tell you that under Labour land was sold regularly, without much fuss, and that Maori (Ngai Tahu) have sold almost 20.000 hectares of land to foreigners.

    They can’t help themselves.
    The truth or the reality doesn’t support their causes so they have to deceive the general public.
    The media is too lazy (and politically biased) to check the facts and another lie or half-truth becomes the new truth.

    Here is another one (Also posted by “The Scorned” on January 7th, 2012).

    Remember the AGW’rs claim that there is consensus when it comes to man-made global warming. How many times have we heard the claim that “97% of the world’s climate scientists” agree that global warming is caused by human activity?

    As there are 1000’s of scientists that disagree with AGW, where do they get the 97% from?
    Apart from the little disclaimer on the end, climate scientists, (Which isn’t always added or sometimes changed to scientists), it appears that the 97% are 75 scientists of a specially selected group of 77.

    Lawrence Solomon: 97% cooked stats

    The ‘scientific consensus’ about global warming turns out to have a lot more to do with manipulating the numbers

    http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/01/03/lawrence-solomon-97-cooked-stats/

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  60. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    I like Mitt Romney. He’s often accused of flip-flopping more times than, well, flip-flops, and that just shows that he’s so honest he just can’t lie convincingly.

    Usually, he really does speak from his heart, hence such gems as:

    “Corporations are people, my friend”

    “I like to fire people”

    and now:

    “I’m not concerned about the very poor.”

    Republican front-runner Mitt Romney is on the defensive over comments in which he said he is not concerned with the poorest Americans. Romney made the claim during an interview with CNN. When pressed on his statement, Romney tried to backtrack, while saying he is equally unconcerned with the plight of the very wealthy.

    Mitt Romney: “I’m in this race because I care about Americans. I’m not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there. If it needs repair, I’ll fix it.”

    Soledad O’Brien: “You just said, ’I’m not concerned about the very poor,’ because they have a safety net. And I think there are lots of very poor Americans who are struggling who would say that sounds odd. Can you explain that?”
    Romney: “Well, you had to finish the sentence, Soledad. I said I’m not concerned about the very poor that have a safety net, but if it has holes in it, I will repair them.”

    O’Brien: “Got it. OK.”

    Romney: “The challenge right now—we will hear from the Democrat Party the plight of the poor, and—and there’s no question, it’s not good being poor, and we have a safety net to help those that are very poor. But my campaign is focused on middle-income Americans. My campaign—I mean, you can choose where to focus. You can focus on the rich. That’s not my focus. You can focus on the very poor. That’s not my focus. My focus is on middle-income Americans.”

    You gotta love the guy.

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  61. Griff (6,848 comments) says:

    Other_Andy

    Love your post
    looked into Lawrence Solomon

    Godless societies are unfit for survival

    Moral values are not universal. Those peculiar to modern Western society, as summarized by the Ten Commandments, stem from the notion that there is but one God, and that all humans are created in His image. This entirely novel idea led to the widely accepted Western view that all human life is sacred. The notion of God as the ultimate lawmaker also promoted democracy — God’s Ten Commandments trumped those of any king or despot in Christendom, curbing their power to rule by whim.

    WARNING RELIGIOUS NUT CASE

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  62. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    dime (3,921) Says:
    February 3rd, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    viking2 (cop hater) – this is what the police force would look like if i was PM

    I’m sure it would. Until the day you became the victim.
    However you didn’t bother to include this about the film.

    The movie is about Dave Brown, just one cop doing bad things to bad people and thinking he is good. It’s a humanistic portrayal of something we would think of as evil, but it does ask the question of what circumstances lead a guy to behave the way he does from a position of power over people who are poor or are minorities, even over criminal elements. One of the many questions the film asks is: Whose desires and fantasy of power is Dave Brown living out? Is it him, or us, the ones he works for and the ones who look the other way most of the time.

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  63. RightNow (6,679 comments) says:

    Other Andy, here’s the low down:

    A survey of 3146 earth scientists asked the question
    “Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?”

    82% of the scientists answered yes: Of scientists who were non-climatologists and didn’t publish research, 77% answered yes. In contrast, 97.5% of climatologists who actively publish research on climate change responded yes.

    Now the pea under the thimble:
    An invitation to participate in the survey was sent to 10,257 Earth scientists.”
    “With 3146 individuals completing the survey, the participant response rate for the survey was 30.7%.”

    So the real deal: 10,257 asked to participate – only 3,146 responded.
    “Approximately 5% of the respondents were climate scientists” – uh huh, that comes to about 157.

    The graph of how many papers they’ve published (which is probably directly proportional to their grant income) is very pretty.
    http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf

    To avoid arguments my first source of information is
    http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm

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  64. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    There’s a lot to like about the US in this article from my favorite US news show:

    http://www.democracynow.org/2012/2/2/gasland_director_josh_fox_arrested_at

    There is the blatant oppression of free speech, the demonstration of US cops handcuffing and jailing non-violent, non-threatening people, the evidence of the vice-like grip the fossil fuel industry have on the lawmaking process and, last but not least, the scary duplicity of Obama.

    The main message is that fracking just has to be fracking good for you!

    And once you are fracked, you will stay fracked!

    It also includes a wonderful example of how external, e.g. environmental, costs are avoided by industry and the tab is picked up by the taxpayer. The EPA is having to supply more and more homes with clean water due to contamination from dirty fracking. In one case the cost of a new pipeline to 18 homes whose water has been permanently contaminated by fracking chemicals is estimated to cost 12 million dollars. Looks like the taxpayer will pick up that tab.

    It’s the old privatize the profits, socialize the losses trick again, the trick that free market fundamentalists just love to death.

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  65. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    so you missed this bit then dime and breal.

    Viking2 (5,998) Says:
    February 3rd, 2012 at 7:03 am

    Hodgetts has previously worked for the Fire Service, St John Ambulance and Surf Lifesaving NZ. His future in the police will be determined after an internal employment hearing after his sentencing.

    Defence lawyer Todd Simmonds said Hodgetts was a “decent and generous young man” who had made a serious blunder, for which he was genuinely remorseful.

    He was particularly aware that he had breached the trust placed in him by the police and apologised for any harm caused.

    The other police employee charged with leaking police information is Timothy John Russell Sarah, 36, who was a prosecutor in the Auckland District Court. He faces 20 charges including possessing and supplying methamphetamine and Ecstasy.

    Say no more.
    All is sweetness and light isn’t it dime.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783066
    And this bit.

    Viking2 (5,998) Says:
    February 3rd, 2012 at 7:07 am

    Minister in court to back lawyer
    By Anna Leask
    5:30 AM Friday Feb 3, 2012

    a Government minister was in court yesterday to support a criminal lawyer charged with delivering a cellphone, cigarettes and a lighter to a high-profile murderer serving a life sentence.

    Dr Pita Sharples, Maori Affairs and Associate Corrections Minister, arrived at the North Shore District Court ahead of the woman’s appearance.

    Oh dear a lawyer didn’t know the rules of prison.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783072

    Its generally not the system but the users of the system and their eveil prtoensity to want to screw the system for their own ends.

    But I guess untill it happens to you you will continue with your blinkers on.
    As I said many times before, I do not have any dislike for the police but a dislike for the activities of some and attitudes of some. They, as is pointed out above, are no better than the people they are locking up.

    Bit like if you sleep with a dog you will catch its flea’s.

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  66. Other_Andy (2,327 comments) says:

    Solomon is an environmentalist and conservationist who supports foreign aid, public transport and is against urban sprawl and nuclear power. He is also the founder of a non-profit online merchant specialising in organic coffee beans produced by small, independent farmers.

    I must admit while I like some of his ideas, I don’t agree with everything he advocates.

    But you are right Griff!!!!
    OH MY GOD….!

    He is an American
    A male
    White
    A heterosexual
    Old
    And worse of all,
    He is a Christian!
    A religeous nutcase!

    Get a grip Griff.
    Take a deep breath .

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  67. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    bereal (1,249) Says:
    February 3rd, 2012 at 5:55 pm

    i don’t believe that New Zealand Police are up to be manipulated by the FBI or ANY outside agency.
    i believe NZ Police is an honest agency they and are able to be scrutinised and held to account for their actions.

    i recognise that our Justice system has righteous links with and cooperates with other
    reputable law enforcement agencies throughout the world for our mutual benefit.

    As i respect both our justice system and that of the US i trust them both that Dotcom will get a fair go
    from both under both our laws.

    He will be able to defend himself ( and in his case, with the very best legal representation money can buy.)

    Boy have you a wakeup call arriving one day.
    Full of selfrighteous pomposity.

    As for dotcom having plenty of money. Just shows how little notice you take of anything. It has been clearly stated that all his assets and cash have been confiscated, (this despite not having been proven guilty of any crime in the NZ statute book)
    leaving him with an account of aboput 300k to defend himself and look after his assets in NZ and his family. He has also had his income destroyed by what could well yet be an illegal action by both NZ and American authourites and authorities in other countries. All founded on a FBI secret court arrangment.

    I trust you will be happy compensating him for his lost income if that proves to be true. But you won’t because you don’t have any principles or ethics worth noting.
    You should also note that this disease of the internet is spreading with a lot more countries bowing to US presure. Presure excerted by such noble bastards as Microsoft Adobe and various others. So its not just illegal music and film downloads it now also includes illegal downloads of microsoft products. Have you any of these? Copied versions from your mates. etc etc.
    The irony of this is that the majors in the computer world spend billions each year flogging one anothers technology and going to court to argue about it. You can only do that if you are Yankee and big enough.

    One wonders when these nasties are going to have a go at Google or Facebook. Oh hang on, Microsoft are about to make billions on the facebook IPO.

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  68. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Viking2

    come on now mate, you can tell us, it will go no further, i promise.

    Why DO you hate the Police ?

    You know you’ll feel better when you get it off your chest.
    It must be churning you up, poor dear.

    Also, i hope you haven’t got any kids that you are corrupting to your cop hating philosophy.

    i don’t expect to hear back from Griff, Pete George or Weihana in respect of my effort @ 5.55
    they’re too smart to stick their heads up again on that one and prove they are cop haters too.

    But you have the courage of your convictions don’t you dear ?
    i’m sure you have a good reason.

    What is it ?

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  69. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Elaycee (2,113) Says:
    February 3rd, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Now you don’t have to mention the Hamas terrorists again.

    I don’t. Hamas does not represent over 5 million Palestinians, and I don’t consider them relevant to the core issues.

    I will respond, though, if I feel the need to, when the resident Islamophobes and Arab-haters here trot out their usual one-sided bullshit.

    Israel and Hamas are both terrorist organizations, the difference here being that Israel is streets ahead of Hamas in extent and sheer brutality compared to Hamas (which has, by way, lately renounced terrorism, by many accounts) and that Israel’s terrorism is supported at all times, no matter what.

    Anyone seen Adze around tonight?

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  70. Griff (6,848 comments) says:

    Other_Andy
    RightNow

    No he is a religious nut case to state

    Godless societies are unfit for survival

    As opposed to some communist states that seem to have a habit of rising their leaders to some what god like status
    The most god less society’s are usually the most civilized heard of a Scandinavian county waging war lately. How about NZ?

    Your continual straw man arguments are silly

    remember
    loony’s lawyers lobbyists and sheep

    I see you two are playing together how cute

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  71. Pete George (22,868 comments) says:

    bereal, stop sitting on the fence and come out and make a stand. Is Dotcom guilty as sin, or are the police as corrupt as hell.

    Come one, actually take a position on this.

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  72. nasska (10,699 comments) says:

    History’s top 10 appropriate uses of the F-word:

    10th – “Scattered f***ing showers, my arse!” – Noah, 4314 BC

    9th – “How the f*** did you work that out?” – Pythagoras, 126 BC

    8th – “You want WHAT on the f***ing ceiling?” – Michelangelo, 1566

    7th – “Where did all those f***ing Indians come from?” – Custer, 1876
    6th – “It does so f***ing look like her!” – Picasso, 1926

    5th – “Where the f*** are we?” – Amelia Earhart, 1937

    4th – “Any f***ing idiot could understand that.” – Einstein, 1938

    3rd – “What the f*** was that bang?” – Mayor Of Hiroshima , 1945

    2nd – “I need this parade like I need a f***ing hole in the head!” JFK, 1963

    AND …… Drum roll please ..

    The Number 1 most appropriate time for using the “F” word ………

    “Aw c’mon. Who the f*** is gonna find out?” – Captain of the Concordia to the Navigator, 2012

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  73. RightNow (6,679 comments) says:

    Griff, false accusation.

    I cited this paper http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf
    Doran, P. T. and M. K. Zimmerman (2009), Examining the Scientific Consensus on Climate Change

    If you have an issue with that paper then let me know, it’s been cited a lot by climate gullibles, so I don’t see why you’d have a problem with it.

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  74. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Thanks 4 the laugh Nasska, reliable as always. Re Kim Dotcom. I’m with Bereal. you’ve got to trust some agency with making the right calls or you may as will live in a f***ing anarchy where gang members rape and plunder at will.
    Too f**king late in some jurisdictions. .

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  75. Pete George (22,868 comments) says:

    Monique, I was just having a wee dig at bereal who is just learning that it’s ok not to always have extreme views and a moderate position on something is sometimes quite acceptable.

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  76. Elaycee (4,305 comments) says:

    Luc: “I dont” [have to mention the Hamas terrorists again] …. but ….. then continues his usual propagandist anti-Israel rant.

    And as usual, its just more porkies from the Luc Hansen school of propaganda. Motto: (your words): “…start with an untruth and build upon it with more lies and distortions, confusing the audience with the volume of misinformation.”

    How symbolic. As I write, I’m watching the NZ Army band playing at the Wellington Sevens and the name of the catchy tune is…… Harva Nakila !

    Bwahahahaaaaaaaaaa

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  77. Griff (6,848 comments) says:

    RightNow
    I am aware of the paper in question It has been posted here on occasion.
    Here are excerpts from your link
    http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf

    Results show that OVERALL, 90% of all participants
    answered “risen” to question 1
    and 82% answered yes to question 2. In
    general, as the level of active research
    and specialization in climate science
    increases, so does agreement with the two
    primary questions (Figure 1). In our survey,
    the most specialized and knowledgeable
    respondents (with regard to climate
    change) are those who listed climate science
    as their area of expertise and who
    also have published more than 50% of
    their recent peer-reviewed
    papers on the
    subject of climate change (79 individuals
    in total). Of these specialists, 96.2%
    (76 of 79) answered “risen” to question 1
    and 97.4% (75 of 77) answered yes to question2

    conclusion

    It seems that the debate on the
    authenticity of global warming and the
    role played by human activity is largely
    nonexistent among those who understand
    the nuances and scientific basis
    of long-term
    climate processes. The
    challenge, rather, appears to be how
    to effectively communicate this fact to
    policy makers and to a public that continues
    to mistakenly perceive debate
    among scientists.

    Your original posted editorial Was by someone who I would regard as a nut case
    and does not coincide with the paper as posted above
    Sorry if you believe otherwise

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  78. kowtow (7,656 comments) says:

    pete george
    that’s extreme. guilty or corrupt,how ridiculous. It could be one and not the other.Could be neither.
    By the way it’s not the police denying bail,it’s our courts. Now make the assertion ,if you dare……aliasdoty guilty or courts corrupt.
    Don’t sit on the fence.Take a position,for once.

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  79. Manolo (13,403 comments) says:

    All power to the Jewish State: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/02/02/israel-vice-pm-iranian-nuclear-sites-vulnerable/

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  80. RightNow (6,679 comments) says:

    Griff, that wasn’t my “original posted editorial”.

    Anyway – my answers are 1) Risen and 2) yes. But I’m still skeptical about how much of climate change (including cooling from aerosols) is attributable to humans, whether the feedbacks are positive or negative, and whether a warmer world is better or worse.

    Edit – what I’m most skeptical about is whether any of the actions taken so far will make any difference whatsoever

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  81. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Hey Pete George,
    that has to be one of your best ones yet.
    You, telling me, to come out on one side or the other.
    What a dag you are.

    You may have missed my effort @ 5.55 Please read it.

    i take it from your question @ 7.55 that you consider it to be a 50/50 call that NZ Police
    are as ‘corrupt as hell.’ as you put it. Is that right ?

    i made my position on that quite clear @ 5.55
    i respect the Police and actually take offence at your question.

    But i’m not sure if i take you seriously or not. If your question is serious, you are as sick as Viking2

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  82. Griff (6,848 comments) says:

    sorry
    Other_Andy’s posted editorial

    The reality of the situation is there is no hope of a binding carbon cap in the medium term
    by the time there is it will be to late to make an impact

    The worrying thing is the uncertainty of the rate and scope of any change
    humanity will survive even the worst predictions
    the level of suffering possible due to AGW is immense
    yet Probably no greater than we cause now
    with war terrorism famine etc

    If we acknowledge there is a problem we should spend our time making sure that we are prepared when it happens
    Not spending time effort and money on meaningless treaty’s and talk feasts.
    The greens are making hay out of AGW the right should be more proactive in capturing ground on this issue
    To me the greens are insane and also the greatest political risk in our future

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  83. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    kowtow
    i think Pete realises he made a prick of himself @ 4.43 and is now proving the point
    that when in a hole you should stop digging.
    You may make a bigger and bigger prick of yourself.

    i don’t think he is a cop hater like Viking2 He just fucked up and is feeling silly.

    i note that Griff and Weihana have now dropped the subject after being called out.
    No suprise there.

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  84. Elaycee (4,305 comments) says:

    @Manolo – thanks for the link.

    But no doubt a propagandist would try and deny this quote from the article: “Iranian proxies in the region, mainly Gaza’s Islamic militant Hamas and the Lebanese Hezbollah, have fired thousands of rockets into Israel and have been building up their arsenals in recent years”.

    Perhaps there’ll be a few more ‘mysterious explosions’ in the area over the coming months? ? ?

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  85. Manolo (13,403 comments) says:

    Food nazis offensive in the US: http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/02/ucsf-sugar-study-recommends-regulations-on-use-of-sweetner-72154.html

    Wait until the Luddites start repeating it here.

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  86. Griff (6,848 comments) says:

    No beral
    You are not worth arguing with
    Taunting yes arguing no

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  87. Nostalgia-NZ (4,918 comments) says:

    Poor advice and strategy by Davison for Dotcom from the little facts available.
    Dotcom should not have pursued a line that he didn’t have any money available, and was therefore unable to ‘escape’ while on bail because it proposed that he had considered such a tactic in some detail, giving the prosecutors claims credibility.
    It was probably also unwise to reveal that he had been punched in the head, as though he were seeking sympathy for that in front of a partlly unsympathetic audience.
    Davison seems slow on his feet here.

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  88. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Griff
    just so you don’t have the last word.

    i was worth arguing with untill you found yourself done like a dogs dinner, right.
    Now all of a sudden you lost interest. As usual.
    Not worth it now dear ?
    i wouldn’t call that the way of a sook Griff,
    but what would you call it ?

    sorry, giff.
    truly pathetic gif.

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  89. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Elaycee

    Are you calling me a propagandist? Huh! You can talk, linking to Fox News Lies!

    I disagree that Hamas and Hezbollah are Iranian proxies. That’s a convenient fiction. Proxy has a specific meaning in this context and does not apply here.

    And you should read up on the formation of both organizations. Hamas was nurtured by Israel as a counter to the PLO, and both Hamas and Hezbollah turned to militancy as a result of Israeli aggression.

    The fact that I take the effort to inform myself about the two groups and therefore know more than most on here who only read Fox does not imply support for all their actions. I applaud their social welfare actions. I applaud resistance to occupation. I abhor terror foisted upon civilians. Unfortunately, just as occupation is an ugly business, so is resistance.

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  90. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    on a parting note.
    Hey Luc,
    when you declare yourself to be a nudist,
    how do you expect anyone to take you seriously ?
    G’nite, and good luck to your family.

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  91. kowtow (7,656 comments) says:

    bereal,
    not to worry pg is irrepresible and will come back with a change of subject.

    manolo,elaycee
    the whole hamas,hezbollah thing is very interesting. With Syria going down the gurgler,the Leb hizb lose an ally and will be disadvantaged in Lebanon, so the balance of power will shift again.Iran loses an ally that borders israel.Al Jazeera reports that Iranians have been captured by the rebels fighting for Assad.So when they come to power they won’t be looking towards Tehran for friends.
    I don’t rejoice in Assad going for this reason alone, the indigenous Christians are being targetted already by the Sunni thugs.So the area where Christianity was born will become even less Christian.
    Any way change there is dangerous and I find it quite hilarious that behind it all is ,yes you guessed it the evil yehuda. See this from some arse “academic” in Fiji.
    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/profile/virginia-tilley.html

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  92. kowtow (7,656 comments) says:

    You know the sad thing about Luc’s bullshit ,mealy mouthed words about terrorists and “social welfare”, resistance to occupation , terror foisted on civilians etc is that his are exactly the words (and that’s all they are,cheap meaningless words) that so called resistance movements around the world use to justify their own criminality. The IRA in it’s various incarnations come to mind.But for each of his words there are hundreds of real ,innocent victims. He is the worst type of disgusting hypocrite.

    For Aotearoans think Maori sovereingty, the same bullshit is spouted to justify their claims. It won’t be long before people die in the name of that shite here. In fact I think alot of people already have,but it’s disguised as common criminality.

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  93. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    bereal, why would we bother to dscuss anything with a dumbarse low intelligence level prick like you? Tell us why we would bother?
    Piss off back to RedBlurt where you belong. and Take Watson with you.
    Indded go get married the two of you.

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  94. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/6355672/Raid-on-Sydney-pirate-pay-TV-outfit

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/6354485/Ukraine-shuts-down-leading-file-sharing-site-Ex-ua

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/6362396/US-shuts-16-sports-piracy-websites-pre-Super-Bowl

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/6354075/Microsoft-slams-Google-user-data-policy

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/6355954/Zuckerberg-describes-FBs-hacker-way

    anyway by the time you read through these you will begin to get the picture may be.

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  95. Griff (6,848 comments) says:

    Its actually quite funny
    Viking2 , Weihana ,ScottCriss, Peter George, luc Hanson and Griff all seem to have the same opinion of beryl
    shit we agree on little else
    maybe there is a conspiracy here
    A propagandist,Apologist, cop hating ,redneck, left wing ,far right, liberal,, centralist ,nudist,government worker and employers one

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  96. kowtow (7,656 comments) says:

    griff
    get a grip old chap.Choosing a bunch of losers doesn’t make u a winner.

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  97. Griff (6,848 comments) says:

    The internet is a new paradigm
    music and movies were once only source from the respective industries in hard form
    Then came video tapes and Compact Cassettes did they cause the collapse of the music and movie industries
    no they actually enhanced them
    than came the net Ipod and mp3
    very recent development as we have all hooked up the world has changed
    I saw some of the early IBMs as a kid
    bloody great pieces of hardware that were run on paper card readers and programmed with wires that could add and subtract Noe we all run phones with many many times more processing power

    The movie industry copyright laws etc are trying to halt this change
    instead of finding ways to work with the technology’s they are trying to strangle them
    Kim dotcome is a Pratt anyone that drives around with a Bentley and a personalized numberplate saying GOD is a tosser
    Is he a criminal doubt it he just facilitated file sharing the “criminals” are those breaking copyright
    The USA corporations are lobbying for a destruction of the freedom of the net
    We should not let them destroy this freedom
    let them find away to work with the new paradigm rather than try to destroy it
    look at I tunes very successful. movie company’s should be following apples lead
    release it to the web after its run in picture theaters at a dollar or so a copy get with 2010+ not hide in the sixties
    grow the market not stifle it

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  98. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    From Kowtow:

    The IRA in it’s various incarnations come to mind.But for each of his words there are hundreds of real ,innocent victims

    I think Irish people would say that for each of your words their were thousands upon thousands upon thousands of real, innocent Irish victims of British occupation.

    The term cognitive dissonance comes to mind.

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  99. Manolo (13,403 comments) says:

    So much talk, so little action: http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbnat/1657011214-Number-of-people-on-the-dole-jumps-in-January

    When will welfare reform happen?

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  100. Manolo (13,403 comments) says:

    Peaceful locals, no doubt: http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbcri/2052601858-ATM-ripped-from-Northland-service-station

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