General Debate 5 February 2012

February 5th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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228 Responses to “General Debate 5 February 2012”

  1. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    Waitangi Day…B. F. D.

    “Controversy over asset sales and job cuts at Te Puni Kokiri, the Ministry of Maori Development, have raised tensions ahead of the annual event at Waitangi’s Te Tii Marae in the Bay of Islands.”

    Mana Party leader Hone Harawira told NZ Newswire he hoped Mr Key got the message that Maori would not budge when it came to treaty obligations by the Crown or he would “have a fight on his hands”.

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  2. Keeping Stock (10,339 comments) says:

    Why would Justice Ian Binnie be wanting to read Joe Karam’s books on the Bain case when there are books by authors without a vested interest such as Karam has? Is Justice Binnie’s choice of reading matter an indication that Bain’s chances of a payout have just got better?

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/02/one-side-of-story.html

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  3. Yvette (2,819 comments) says:

    Former MO backs oil firm [which he is paid by]
    A former MP who looks set to return to Parliament says New Zealand would be “silly” to close the door on TAG Oil – the company that says there’s potential to build “thousands” of wells on the East Coast.

    Aaron Gilmore, who is paid an annual royalty for consultancy work he did for TAG surrounding its operations in Taranaki before he became an MP in 2008, could return to Parliament from National’s list if Speaker Lockwood Smith retires this year.

    TAG is involved in a joint-venture with fellow Canadian energy company, Apache Corp, which has identified 687,966 hectares of “conventional and unconventional targets”.

    The proposed exploration area covers the East Coast, Poverty Bay and Hawke’s Bay.

    Developers say they may need to rely on the controversial practice of fracking in their bid to recover “billions of barrels” of oil, sparking a growing outcry in the affected areas.

    Describing New Zealand as “energy rich”, Gilmore told the Sunday Star-Times the developments could be in the country’s best interests.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6367870/Former-MP-backs-oil-firm

    ..incontrivable proof that our political leaders are as dumb as a sack of doorknobs…and are just selling us down the river..unthinking…
    putting the pros and cons of drilling for oil to one side..
    ..and just focusing on the supposed benefits for new zealand/the mug-punters..
    ..can you just consider these stark facts..and weep..?
    ..as i reported yesterday…
    ….the progressive govt in ecuador..bemoaning the low oil royalties they were getting for their natural resources..
    ..have negotiated a new deal…
    ..where the oil companies now will pay them a royalty of 87%..
    ..that figure they bemoaned…?…13%…
    …the figure ‘negotiated’ by the useless bastards who are our political ‘leaders’..?
    ..for the extraction of our natural resource/oil..?
    ..5%…

    ..whoar..!
    ..eh..?
    ..come on down gerry brownlee/john key…!
    update:..but wait..!..there’s more…!..(as i/whoar reported back in 8/11..)
    “..In 2010 New Zealand’s crude oil production was worth a staggering US$2,521,625,288 -
- or (at current exchange rates) $2.97 billion New Zealand Dollars.
    The governments tax take on that is $148 m –
    – or roughly the same amount given away to oil companies as sweeteners like seismic mapping research…”

    http://whoar.co.nz/page/4/

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  4. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Peter Dunne explains the United Future position on asset sales:

    UnitedFuture on Asset Sales

    I see some are suggesting that UnitedFuture has abruptly changed its position on asset sales since the election, having previously been opposed to all such sales. This is simply not true.

    (detailed explanation)

    UnitedFuture’s confidence and supply agreement, negotiated with National after the election, confirms all these points and is therefore consistent in every regard with our pre-election policy. That is why UnitedFuture will support the Government’s plans to introduce a mixed-ownership model for the four energy companies and Air New Zealand.

    Like him or not, Dunne maintains a consistent line, especially compared to the vocal opposition.

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  5. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    Getting frisky in Jafaland: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783539

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  6. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    More PC crap. Do as told or else: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783518

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  7. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Things will be getting interesting in the next few months

    Apart from Egypt’s sectarian and political violence, Egypt’s economic crisis will be worsening over the next two months.
    It is begging the IMF for a multi-billion dollar ‘loan’.
    Without money to subsidise basic food items, Egypt will undoubtedly see more unrest and even worse violence.

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/NA24Ak02.html
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/poverty-matters/2012/jan/25/egypt-bread-freedom-social-justice?newsfeed=true

    Things aren’t much better in Syria where Iranian and Hezbollah mercenaries are trying to prop up Assad’s regime. Syria has always supported Iran and its proxies in Lebanon (Hezbollah) and Iraq (Abu Qaqaa) and Iran is keen to return the favour.
    However, the current regime is almost bankrupt and the groups fighting Assad aren’t exactly the ‘good guys’ either.
    Either way, there will be more violence on the horizon.
    When the embargo begins to bite in Iran, it will also mean less money for Assad, Hezbollah and Hamas. Hezbollah depends on weapons, money, training and protection from Syria and Iran. Hamas depends on weapons, money, training and protection from Iran and the new masters in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood.
    When Iran runs out of money, so will Syria, Hamas and Hezbollah.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/syrian-regime-importing-snipers-for-protests/story-e6frg6so-1226254330519

    Time is running out. What will Syria, Egypt and Iran do to distract the population from its worsening political and economic situation? And who will support the Hamas and Hezbollah regimes?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/jordan/9047590/Hamas-leader-visits-Jordan-for-first-time-in-13-years.html

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  8. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    Treasury economist. Population increase (80% of which is from outside NZ) has hurt us*

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/downloads/pdfs/mi-jarrett-comm.pdf

    * good for the members of the 20 Corporates $6b (or so) asset Property Council good old boys.

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  9. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Scott, yesterday you quoted “We know the true warming signal is currently suppressed by temporary weather events”.

    Are you even open to the possibility that the CO2 model that predicted ‘the true warming signal’ is wrong?

    Practicing the scientific method means always being open to new data.

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  10. Viking2 (11,470 comments) says:

    And for the envious and the poor and their supporters. Why you need to work harder and stop theiving from the wealthy.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/image.cfm?c_id=1&gal_objectid=10783521&gallery_id=123669#8570000

    That includes you bereal.

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  11. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    OMG :!: Liechtenstein Buying Up New Zealand – Bought 10 Times What China Bought In Last 5 Years!!

    “People from the landlocked principality of Liechtenstein had purchased 10 times more land than the Chinese – 2,144ha in the same period.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6368089/Who-is-really-buying-New-Zealand

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  12. Nookin (3,341 comments) says:

    PC brigade wins again.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783518

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  13. Viking2 (11,470 comments) says:

    We are going to like this lady. Pretty boy Simon won’t but that’s ok.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783495

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  14. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    Fatnuts says:- “Are you even open to the possibility that the CO2 model that predicted ‘the true warming signal’ is wrong?”

    Yes, there is always a small hope that the models are completely wrong, and that some unknown phenomenon hasn’t been factored in to the calculations.

    Have you seen this simple graph which shows very clearly the effect of El Nino and La Nina have on the underlying warming trend?

    http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/cmb/hazards/2011/12/enso-global-temp-anomalies.png

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  15. Viking2 (11,470 comments) says:

    Urewera Terrorist Raid behavor all over again.
    Oh Dear.

    Never seen them do this to the Mongrel Mob or Black Power. Must be a Racist thing.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783521

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  16. Viking2 (11,470 comments) says:

    Dotcom said he met Orewa community Constable Jason Homan the day before the raid. He said it was later discovered Homan secretly filmed the mansion to provide intelligence for the raid.

    Now I think we had an issue with this shiot just last year didn’t we.

    Judge should throw the case out of court.

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  17. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Scott, there is experimental proof that CO2 models are wrong. You seem to be in denial about this.

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  18. peterwn (3,271 comments) says:

    ‘Keeping Stock’ – Re Justice Bionnie. I would have faith in his bs-o-meter. I would not worry too much about this. He would have all the ‘official’ material but would wish to take cognisance of a different point of views. Also by reading (or having a clerk read) the books would allay any perception of a ‘closed’ mind. By not requesting the other books he is closing off a possible avenue of criticism. Their authors need not be offended. The Police would have checked out any novel points raised in these books.

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  19. MT_Tinman (3,186 comments) says:

    Nookin, it’s probably more that they expect Weepu to choke yet again and the bottle will end up broken on the floor – like most of Weepu’s “passes”.

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  20. Nookin (3,341 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock @ 8.07

    I was interested in your reaction to this news story because when I read the story (before reading your post) I took the a contrary view.

    It is appropriate that the judge discounts the unresearched, hip shooting reactionary comments by the anti-Bain Brigade. If the judge wants to get a perception of the strength of the case against David Bain he just needs to read the Crown file, Crown evidence and submissions.

    The Karam books were heralded as proof positive of Bain’s innocence. When I read them, I was totally unconvinced. Conclusions drawn by Karam did not seem to follow naturally from the meagre facts that he advanced. He was unable to substantiate many of his allegations. I couldn’t help thinking at the time “well, if that’s the best they can do…”.

    I would not read a great deal into the judge’s request. He will make up his own mind on the totality of the material in front of him. I do not think that the Karam books are going to do a great deal for Bain’s case. I liken Karam’s logic to Ian Wishart’s theory that the cop killed the Crewes. Not the slightest evidence that he did so but the theory holds good because there is no proof that he did not

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  21. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    @Keeping Stock: Sounds like another orchestrated campaign has started – now Bain’s number 1 apologist Joe Karam is set to launch yet another book. But save your money – the second verse (and the third verse) will be the same as the first.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783483

    Coincidental timing? Sure – and if you believe that, I’ve got a real nice bridge for sale.

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  22. Yvette (2,819 comments) says:

    La Leche League director Alison Stanton said the trouble wasn’t with Weepu bottle feeding but with the overall message.

    Asked what was wrong with Weepu cuddling and feeding a baby, she said: “You’ve got the healthy eating message, exercise, breastfeeding, smoke-free environment, wearing safety belts and this is about making sure that we give consistent health messages.”

    Weepu said he was trying to encourage non-smoking.
    “I started doing the campaigns last year and wanted to be involved again because I think it’s doing something good for the community. I wanted to set a good example and make a better future for my children.”

    Karen Guilliland, chief executive officer of the College of Midwives, said her organisation opposed the ad too. “We just figured that Piri Weepu was so loved that whatever he did would carry a huge weight.”

    Yes, it would be sad to have yet more images of Maori, especially famed and respected male Maori, caught in the act of child abuse …

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  23. Viking2 (11,470 comments) says:

    NZ Storm Troopers.
    Coming to a house near you.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783521

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  24. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Misrepresentation at its most mendacious:

    From Elaycee

    You should form a group with Luc – he has also been proven to tell porkies. His motto (his own words): “…start with an untruth and build upon it with more lies and distortions, confusing the audience with the volume of misinformation.” Remarkably similar to this quote from Josef Goebbels: ““The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over””

    The remark that offended LAC was indeed made by my good self, but it was an empirical observation of Christopher Moncton’s advocacy technique.

    It’s usually impossible to get past the first sentence without encountering misrepresentation or even outright lie.

    No one here, despite the gross number of slanderous comments directed at me, has made a charge of misrepresentation to lying stick, simply because I try very hard to stick to facts.

    And opinion are not, by definition, lies.

    So if anyone knows this LAC character, do me a favor and kick him in the nuts for me.

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  25. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Regardless of the perceived PC-ness of Weepu with his baby on the bottle, there is a real issue of breast feeding rates.

    There are genuine reasons why some mothers can’t breastfeed.

    There are also issues of pressure of the system support that scare mothers into reverting to bottle feeding for fear of not giving their babies enough.

    And some come down to simply lack of parental perseverance and will to do what is ultimately the preferred food source for babies. We are in an age of convenience – and commercialism – that many are soft targets for. I’m surprised we don’t have ‘happy bottles” mcmarketed yet.

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  26. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    fatnuts – it helps matters if you post a link to back up your assertions. Just copy and paste the link with a space to separate it from the body of your text. (in case you didn’t know)

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  27. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    V2,

    We are going to like this lady. Pretty boy Simon won’t but that’s ok.

    On the strength of what exactly? This one quip: “That would be a young man in a suit speaking, would it?”

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  28. cha (4,014 comments) says:

    #Other_Andy

    An illuminating piece from Harry’s place.

    http://hurryupharry.org/2012/02/03/revolution-over-and-out/

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  29. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Luc bleats: “So if anyone knows this LAC character, do me a favor and kick him in the nuts for me.”

    Haha – your usual tactic surfaces again – the minute someone has a contrary view (or someone points out your lies / distortions / propaganda), you resort to either bad mouthing / name calling and now you even seek help from someone else to step in for you.

    Firstly, this reference came from another thread (yesterday) when ross was telling porkies again about the wharfie remunerations. Second, you have finally admitted that you tell porkies – my very point all along. But you left out this part: “ross – You and Luc have as much credibility as Penny Bright – and her level is around the same as a three dollar note with a picture of Winston on one side. Zero. Nada, Nil. Zip. SFA.”

    Boo ferkin hoo. Guess what, Luc? As soon as you stop telling lies, I’ll stop pointing them out.

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  30. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    fatnuts

    The theory of anthropogenic global warming does not depend on models. It is based on the observed fact of warming and solid, conventional physics for explaining that warming as overwhelmingly caused by our emissions.

    The models only present probabilities within bounded uncertainty. They have been demonstrably found wrong often, mainly buy underestimating future effects.

    James Hansen’s latest paper uses the combination of observations and the paleoclimate record to deduce future sea level rise and climate sensitivity, amongst other aspects such as weather. Not a model in sight. It’s easy to find on his climate science website – just Google his name.

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  31. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Scott, this has been posted a number of times, I’m surprised you are not familiar with it, given the regime change it represents.

    The relevant quote is “Based on the first results from CLOUD, it is clear that the treatment of aerosol formation in climate models will need to be substantially revised, since all models assume that nucleation is caused by these vapours and water alone.”

    Link to the citation:

    http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2011/downloads/CLOUD_SI_press-briefing_29JUL11.pdf

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  32. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Luc, if you want to predict an outcome in the future, the only way you will do it is by developing a model. That’s how science works.

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  33. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    TesticleTaser as a contraception

    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2012/02/howzat.html

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  34. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    always read the last paragraph fatnuts
    its called the conclusion

    “However, it is premature to conclude that cosmic
    rays have a significant influence on climate until the additional nucleating vapours have been identified, their
    ion enhancement measured, and the ultimate effects on clouds have been confirmed.”

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  35. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    TesticleTaser as a contraception

    New handbag accessory?

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  36. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Griff – that’s a boilerplate conclusion used by anyone who’s about to request additional funding.

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  37. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    This comes under the banner of

    start with an untruth and build upon it with more lies and distortions, confusing the audience with the volume of misinformation

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  38. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Anybody know if any of the climate models account for increased evapotranspiration from the extra vegetation resulting from higher CO2 concentrations? In Trenberth’s energy budget diagram in 2009 he had evapotranspiration at 80w/m2.

    Plant more trees!

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  39. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    I agree Griff. Whilst the current CO2 models are now effectively invalidated, we have yet to see a new hypothesis demonstrated and gain acceptance. More work to be done.

    That’s the interesting bit, regimes shifts like the CLOUD findings lead to new, and better understanding of the way things work. That’s why I enjoy the science, finding a neutrino going faster than light, I was rooting for the non existance of the Higgs Boson, microbial life outside of earth (coming soon), M-theory etc…

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  40. Spam (588 comments) says:

    The theory of anthropogenic global warming does not depend on models. It is based on the observed fact of warming and solid, conventional physics for explaining that warming as overwhelmingly caused by our emissions.

    Not quite.

    That CO2 traps IR and causes heating is solid, proven by theory and backed-up by experimentation. However, increased CO2, on its own, will not cause catastrophic global warming. That is proven by the same experiments (in fact its a logarithmic relation, and every successive doubling has less effect the previous one). The catastrophic scenarios are based on feedback loops, mostly involving water vapour. The theory is that more co2 means more heating which means more evaporation of water which means more heating and a massive runaway feedback loop.

    THAT is most certainly not observed fact. Theory? Yes. Fact? No. In fact, observed water vapour is much less than predicted.

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  41. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    effectively invalidated?

    comprehension problem again.

    “However, it is premature to conclude that cosmic
    rays have a significant influence on climate ”

    Does not instantaneous invalidate known facts it just says more information needed.
    This cloud experiment does not as previously claimed change YET any known climate models.
    And it all so does not state that its effects will be positive or negative in the debate over agw

    Higgs boson is still not found
    Faster than light particles not yet proven
    microbiological life outside earth no conclusive evidence yet
    your science knowledge seems to be from the msm not actually based on known science

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  42. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    A leaflet offering help for problem gamblers in Oz gives them a phone number to call for help – TAB Sportsbet…

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/problem-gamblers-help-line-bet-link-shock/story-fn7x8me2-1226262731101

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  43. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Griff, you’re in denial. The hypothesis that CO2 models rely on for cloud formation has been proven invalid.

    The other stuff I mentioned is emerging science, that’s why it’s interesting.

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  44. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    BREAKING NEWS Key makes retreat from Te Tii Marae due to protesters … More soon (from Stuff)

    Just scrap the fucking charade. Rich Maori are the ones fucking over poor Maori, and the NZ taxpayer is left to foot the bill.

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  45. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    catastrophic ?
    Were did that come from spam
    : the final event of the dramatic action especially of a tragedy
    2
    : a momentous tragic event ranging from extreme misfortune to utter overthrow or ruin
    3
    a : a violent and sudden change in a feature of the earth

    Does not relate to agw
    you are rousing emotive words to stir the pot
    really you guys are a bunch of kids
    trying to define the debate outside of the language of its proponents is a straw man argument at best and downright bullshit at worst
    Also spam are you current on the state of permafrost. In Siberia there is a significant warming that could release large amounts of methane another greenhouse gas

    fatnuts
    go back to school
    “However, it is premature to conclude that cosmic
    rays have a significant influence on climate”
    is the conclusion to your posted links from cern/ cloud
    “The hypothesis that CO2 models rely on for cloud formation has been proven invalid”. Is not in any way concluded in your posted links Cloud merely states interesting results more information needed

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  46. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    “BREAKING NEWS Key makes retreat from Te Tii Marae due to protesters”

    zzzzzzzzzz..

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  47. Brian Smaller (4,023 comments) says:

    I agree RightNow. When the PM of New Zealand cannot get to the official ceremoney for the national holiday at the supposed birthplace of the nation, it is beyond a joke. This happens every year and to PMs from both parties. I think National would be onto a huge winner if they campaigned on removing references to the Treaty of Waitangi from every piece of legislation and relegating it to the history books. If there was a referendum I would lay money on the fact that 75% of people would say “scrap it”. The Maori aristocracy who control tens of billions of daollars of assets and who are hidden behind tribal trusts are incredibly wealthy – let them pay for their ‘people’ now.

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  48. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Key should have got himself a megaphone and directed it toward all the protesters until their ears hurt so much they were forced to stop their incessant screeching. Leaving is for whussies. BTW, this action was entirely predictable. Reading the news last week, anyone at all could work out this was definitely going to happen. So what sort of planning had Key done, to avoid looking like a little girl, which he just did, over this. Another example of how useless the Nats are at managing public image generally which is going to be fatal for them this term, if they don’t start doing it a lot, from here on in.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6368974/Key-leaves-Waitangi-due-to-protesters

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  49. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    Luc,

    The theory of anthropogenic global warming does not depend on models. It is based on the observed fact of warming and solid, conventional physics for explaining that warming as overwhelmingly caused by our emissions.

    This is just plain wrong. After all these years I’m really not sure how anyone who takes even a passing interest in the subject could display such total ignorance; yet here you are demonstrating that you literally don’t know the first thing.

    The AGW scare is based on the theory that the minimal direct influence of anthropogenic CO2 leads to positive runaway feedbacks of the overwhelming greenhouse gas, which is water vapour.
    It is not based on “observed fact” (in fact it contradicts observed facts), nor is it “conventional physics.” It was a theory which has proved to be false, since the relentless warming that was promised – and which would certainly have occurred if the warming at the end of the last century was indeed “overwhelmingly caused by our emissions” – never happened: it stopped dead about 15 years ago.

    In conclusion: notwithstanding your endless posting of AGW scare stories you clearly know less that the average tabloid reader about the subject. Time to stop flogging this dead horse, mate.

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  50. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    I can’t help you any more with your denial Griff, if you can accept experimental proof that disagrees with your ideology.

    The entire basis of your disaster politics relies on the outcomes predicted by AWG CO2 models. We now know due to experimental proof that these models are invalid.

    New hypothesis need to be developed.

    The lead scientist of the CLOUD experiment is quoted “The theory will probably be able to account for somewhere between a half and the whole of the increase in the Earth’s temperature that we have seen in the last century”

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  51. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Sad for those who organise and try to create a special Waitangi event but it’s become a hopelessly case, overrun by rent-a-rant.

    I hope Key makes a strong stand over this, the bitch spiral is out of control at Waitangi. If he doesn’t do something significant to deal with we have to do someting for ourselves.

    Leave this nonsense to the nonsensicals, and create our own day for all kiwis.

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  52. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    After Key had fled, Taurua Kingi said he could see the fear in Key’s eyes.

    “I could see a bit of fear in his eyes because he’s never experienced this type of protest. It’s very vocal.”

    Let’s hope Kingi’s just making this up because if its true it doesn’t auger well for Key’s performance in the House during Question Time with Peters. He’s never been faced with the sort of shit that Peters is going to be throwing all the time, and Liarbore will happily give him as many of their slots as he wants (I assume that’s allowed?) once he starts doing it.

    Ever since Key joined politics he’s been treated like the prodigal son. I remember he turned up for a Regional party meeting and everyone stood up and clapped. It’s been like that for him since he started and in his first term he never faced anything challenging at all from a beaten and bruised opposition. Now its going to be different and I’m not sure he’s going to prove he’s got what it takes.

    It’s one thing to stand like a shark in the market and read which way the numbers are flowing, but they don’t shout at you and poke holes in everything you’ve ever said which is how the political markets work. The way Key conducted himself in the first term what with not using the GFC excuse to cancel the tax cuts which made an albatross which he still wears and then everything else he did with his nancy compromise politics, does not indicate he’s got the guts to make the right calls and that’s fatal in NZ politics.

    NZers like strong leaders and we don’t tolerate weak ones. Rowling was the last weak leader we had and look what happened to him. Key’s issue as we’ve discussed many times is he wants to be popular and often in politics the popular course is not the correct course, but that’s not going to save him this term, since this term, the opposition will paint even his milky-mild policy platform as being radical far right and they will use all the lefty memes with the breathless cooperation of the useless media and the polls will reflect that all this term.

    His only hope is to deflect all that by turning from a “nice guy” into a hard-hitting defender of the conservative economic and social platforms that the Nats used to stand for, but I bet he doesn’t do that.

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  53. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Key’s strength has been there but mostly hidden behind the political curtain, but he has shown sufficient strength at Christchurch on Pike River.

    This is an occasion where he needs to show very public strength, or Waitangi Day is doomed as any sort of universally supported event.

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  54. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Waitangi Day takes (another) arrow to the knee. Key would do well to take the rest of the long weekend off and go golfing instead of showing up tomorrow.

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  55. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    Fatnuts – thanks for that link. What CERN are talking about is refinement of the model, so that the uncertainty that *is already accounted for* can be reduced. This passage from your link sums up the situation:

    :arrow: “However, 
the 
physical 
mechanisms
 of 
nucleation
 are
 not 
understood, 
so 
global
 models 
have 
been 
based 
on
 theoretical
 calculations
 or 
have
 been
 adjusted 
to
 match 
observations.

 CLOUD
 aims
 to
understand 
the 
nucleation 
process
 and 
therefore
 provide 
reliable
 aerosol
 physics 
to 
reduce 
the
uncertainty 
in
 climate 
forcings
 and
 projections.”

    In other words, algorithms modeling *observed* aerosol formation are an intrinsic part of climate models but what is not fully understood is the actual mechanism that creates these particles. For instance, scientists know that in periods of solar maximum radiation, more aerosol particles are formed, so they simply plonk this data into their models without understanding exactly why the aerosols are formed.

    That’s all.

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  56. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    “The lead scientist of the CLOUD experiment is quoted “The theory will probably be able to account for somewhere between a half and the whole of the increase in the Earth’s temperature that we have seen in the last century”

    Link needed fat-nuts
    msm spin is not science they are notorious for miss quotes or out of context

    PROBABLY=hypothesis= GUESS

    BASIC EDUCATION IN SCIENCE METHOD
    Scientists start with observations and then make a hypothesis (a guess), and then the fun begins. They must then prove their hypothesis with trials and tests that show why their data and results are correct. They must use controls, which are quantitative (based on values and figures, not emotions). Science needs both ideas (the hypothesis) and facts (the quantitative results) to move forward. Scientists can then examine their data and develop newer ideas. This process will lead to more observation and refinement of hypotheses.

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  57. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    fatnuts

    That lead scientist has been promoting this as a hobby horse for a long time. He has a theory looking for convenient facts to fit.

    He even closes his eyes to the fact that the underlying warming trend continued to rise while cosmic rays have been relatively constant.

    To then try to say cosmic rays have this huge influence is simply the triumph of self-delusion over hard facts.

    wat

    Greenhouse effect

    Arrhenius developed a theory to explain the ice ages, and in 1896 he was the first scientist to speculate that changes in the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere could substantially alter the surface temperature through the greenhouse effect.[4]

    1896, wat, not a model in sight.

    And you can find this on James Hansen’s website:

    2011

    July 8: Paleoclimate Implications for Human-Made Climate Change: Revised paper for Milankovitch volume.

    (I need a tutorial on how to post a link to a pdf.)

    Not a model in sight, again.

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  58. Yvette (2,819 comments) says:

    Labour leader David Shearer will also visit Te Tii marae this morning.

    Labour said the crux of the Election – the most vital choice – was assets sales.
    But they failed to simply ask how Key would sell up 49% of each.
    Totally reorganise SOEs and the law covering them – including Waitangi clauses?

    See what their reception is this morning.
    Will they receive the same reception as Key, for their ignorance?
    Or are the protesters so bloody ignorant they won’t see that either.

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  59. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    Luc,

    You rather seem to have missed the point which is that the AGW theory is not, as you seem to imagine, based on “observed facts” or “conventional physics.”

    Whether or not the theory is implemented in a computer model is irrelevant. What matters is whether it is correct or not, and all your blinkered denialism doesn’t change the fact that it has been proven false, since it is completely contradicted by the evidence.

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  60. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Scott, the relevant term is “substantially revised” in the context that CLOUD were directed not to interpret results, presumably due to political correctness.

    Griff, that quote is expressed as an opinion, not a finding. If you want to practise scientific method, then you cannot remain in denial over the CLOUD findings.

    Luc, results so far from CLOUD support that he is more right than wrong. Definative results are a matter of time away.

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  61. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    notwithstanding your endless posting of AGW scare stories you clearly know less that the average tabloid reader about the subject.

    Wat,

    My books on climate change, or books I have read on that topic:

    The Politics of Climate Change, Anthony Giddens

    Revenge of Gaia, James Lovelock

    Climate Wars, Gwynne Dyer

    The Future History of the Arctic, Charlles Emmerson

    Dire Predictions, Michael Mann

    Climate Change 101, Andy Reisinger

    The Climate Fix, Roger Pielke Jr

    Suzuki’s Green Guide, David Suzuki

    Climate change: picturing the science, Gavin Schmidt and Joshua Wolfe

    Climate Capitalism, Lovins and Cohen

    Natural Capitalism, Lovins etc

    The Case for a Carbon Tax, She-Ling Hsu

    Climate Change Denial, John Cook

    Storms of My Grandchildren, James E Hansen

    The Weathermakers, Tim Flannery

    The Clean Industrial Revolution, Ben McNeil

    Climate Change, CSIRO publication.

    The Price of Civilisation, Jeffrey Sachs (Climate change mentioned although the primary focus is elsewhere)

    And others I can’t track down right now.

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    So I bow to your superior knowledge.

    Clearly the average tabloid reader (were you studying your reflection when you typed that?) is many times over better informed than myself.

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  62. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Luc, “I need a tutorial on how to post a link to a pdf” is it this?
    http://arxiv.org/vc/arxiv/papers/1105/1105.0968v2.pdf

    Just copy and paste like usual

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  63. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    wat dabney
    completely contradicted by the evidence.
    Were
    the last decade is the warmest on record
    the previous the next warmest
    do you dispute these facts
    show proof

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  64. RF (1,397 comments) says:

    Many years ago whilst on a school trip at our local museum I was shown a pre 1860s Map of New Zealand. In a number of areas mainly in the North Island there were warnings.. “beware of savages”.

    After watching the crap a Waitangi we sure have not progressed much since those times. Aussie looks better every day.

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  65. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    Luc,

    If you actually had the faintest grasp of the issue you would not have come out with the howler that “The theory of anthropogenic global warming does not depend on models. It is based on the observed fact of warming and solid, conventional physics for explaining that warming as overwhelmingly caused by our emissions.

    Sorry, but that is just a laughable. As the saying goes, it’s not even wrong.

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  66. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    No doubt the spineless Key will show the other cheek asking to be slapped again.
    Time for Labour lite to wake up, confront and dismiss the racists and move forward with its policies.

    Enough of this ridiculous pandering to Stone Age tribes.

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  67. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Luc, I note in that paper they state that a temp rise of 2 deg C above pre-industrial levels would still be too high and that CO2 levels need to be reverted to 350ppm.
    Have they considered planting more trees instead?

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  68. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    Griff,

    In English?

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  69. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Key’s strength has been there but mostly hidden behind the political curtain, but he has shown sufficient strength at Christchurch on Pike River.

    I don’t agree Pete, all he had to do with those two events is show sufficient concern right from the very start (check) and not do anything completely incompetent (check).

    Politicians love natural disasters as it gives them a chance to pretend they know what they’re doing whereas really what is happening is the agencies responsible are doing exactly what they’d always planned and trained for and the PM and other politicians are just there getting in front of the cameras and not getting in the way, but they’re not actually making the agencies do anything they weren’t already going to do.

    This happens the world over and the only time it goes wrong is when you get an idiot like Bush who failed to respond to Katrina.

    So no, to me, this wasn’t a test of Key’s leadership, at all. Of course the fact is the public do think that politicians do actually make a difference is why they’re called useful idiots, but that false perception on the public’s part doesn’t make the reality of it any different unless you care to argue the ‘perception is reality’ argument but even that still doesn’t make it a real actual true test of leadership.

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  70. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Griff
    “the last decade is the warmest on record
    the previous the next warmest”

    Hey, when I was 30 my last decade was my tallest, the previous my next tallest. Do you think that means I was still growing?

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  71. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    i see the pathological cophater and Dotcom apologist (viking2) is straight out of the blocks again today.

    Thanks for the links V2.
    i was paticulary impressed by photo 12/15.
    You know, the one that showed Wayne Tempero indicating where
    armed police stood during a raid on Kim Dotcoms mansion. (if thats not conclusive proof of police brutality
    nothing is.)

    Wayne Tempero would seem to be the type of bodyguard you need like you need a hole in the head.

    Why would you bother having a panic room to hide in when your bodyguard (after first saying Dotcom was
    not at home) then leads the police to show them where it’s hidden.

    i thought that is was also damming evidence of police brutality that some police were wearing a bandana,
    known as a durag, popular in US street culture. (that proves it for sure, effing bandanas) Some had pants on too.
    And nannies were ‘rousted’ from their bed at gun point.
    Also the helicopter blades were ‘screaming’
    And it was a ‘home invation by NZ police’ said MISTER Tempero. (who is now facing firearms charges)

    Viking2 would be proud of the tenor used by the fuckwits who wrote todays article in the HOS.

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  72. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Reid – I agree that the ongoing Waitangi farce is a much bigger test of leadership. Muddling means more mayhem.

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  73. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    See the headline on the Stuff front page now reads: “I saw fear in his eyes.”

    Yep, the good ole MSM. We just report the news as it happens, we just put the facts before the people impartially without fear or favour and leave it to the public to make up their minds. That’s what journalists do. It’s part of our ethics. Of course we don’t spin anything, ever.

    From the video it all looked pretty mild. Why Key left is beyond me.

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  74. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    fuck me thick nuts you really can not comprehend can you

    “However, it is premature to conclude that cosmic
    rays have a significant influence on climate”
    are the conclusion from your of quoted link

    “then you cannot remain in denial over the CLOUD findings”
    who is in denial here ?

    say this in a low and slow monotone
    Dhuuh ahhh Griff must be right cause he did not make things up he read understood and posted the conclusions of my link

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  75. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    Hey, when I was 30 my last decade was my tallest, the previous my next tallest. Do you think that means I was still growing?

    go carefully measure your self
    you will find that you have shrunk since your twenties
    better yet measure your self in the morning do a whole day of walking and measure yourself again
    gee you loose height as the day progresses
    wot the hell has this got to do with climate change?
    nothing as has your original statement

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  76. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Speaking of fuckwits.

    Anybody else getting a bit tired of the continuous, never ending, pointless bickering, waged daily
    by the same usual suspects over climate change ?

    (thats sure to make me a few more friends on Kiwiblog)

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  77. Paulus (2,627 comments) says:

    The Waitangi Fiasco
    The Media got what it worked very hard for at least the last two weeks to get.
    Some of the so called media got jossled by the protesters.
    Not hard enough obviously as they are not in hospital.
    Looking today’s SST you can see why the rioters get stroppy – just as advocated by the SST at least, and others like TV3.

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  78. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Russian scientist predicts cooling period starting around 2014

    Bicentennial Decrease of the Total Solar Irradiance Leads to Unbalanced Thermal Budget of the Earth and the Little Ice Age

    After the maximum of solar cycle 24, from approximately 2014 we can expect the start of the next bicentennial cycle of deep cooling with a Little Ice Age in 2055 plus or minus 11. Thus, long-term variations of TSI (with account for their direct and secondary, based on feedback effects, influence) are the main fundamental cause of climate changes since variations of the Earth climate is mainly determined by a long-term imbalance between the energy of solar radiation entering the upper layers of the Earth’s atmosphere and the total energy emitted from the Earth back to space.

    http://ccsenet.org/journal/index.php/apr/article/view/14754

    Habibullo Ismailovich Abdussamatov is the supervisor of the Astrometria project of the Russian section of the International Space Station and the head of Space research laboratory at the Saint Petersburg-based Pulkovo Observatory of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
    He is a global warming skeptic (Not one of the chosen 77).

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  79. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Griff take a few days to think about it. You’re having a comprehension failure

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  80. Keeping Stock (10,339 comments) says:

    No doubt the spineless Key will show the other cheek asking to be slapped again.

    Thus spake the fearless keyboard warrior known as Manolo, from the comfort of his home, and the anonymity of a nom-de-plume…

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  81. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Griff, I’ll repeat again; the entire basis of your disaster politics “needs to be substantially revised”.

    Revised to what is now the question, and the subject of the quote, that you seem to misunderstand.

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  82. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Bereal, it’s not mandatory reading. And isn’t “endless, pointless etc..” the description of the majority in The GD thread?

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  83. Alan Wilkinson (1,878 comments) says:

    luc, it doesn’t matter how many books you have read (and most of that list I recognised were written by raving climate alarmists) just look at the thermometer:
    drroyspencer.com/2012/02/uah-global-temperature-update-for-january-2012-0-09-deg-c/

    Not very frightening, is it? Nor is the sea level:
    climate4you.com/images/UnivColorado%20MeanSeaLevelSince1992%20With1yrRunningAverage.gif

    Facts always trump theory.

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  84. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    This is an unbelievable visualisation of the Japanese earthquake data over the whole of 2011.

    It’s unbelievable what happens in March.

    It shows for about the first six minutes the broad locations on a large scale topographic but you watch what happens in March, it absolutely explodes.

    Then it shows the same data in various views: total numbers, magnitudes, epicenters, the whole works.

    Apart from the earthquake interest, it’s one of the best uses of data visualisation techniques I’ve ever seen and anyone who works in that field or has an interest in that field should check this out just for that alone.

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  85. flipper (4,060 comments) says:

    Oh dear……
    Chrissie the Wussie, Luc et al are raving again. They obviolusly believe the psuedo-scientific crap that has been thoroughly discredited by real scientists. But then they also probably rely upon Radio Labour, TV One and TV 3,m Fairfax (and their financial interest in an AGW/NGO publication) for their information. Pity. But it is no different in the UK (but the message in New Zealand is similar) where the Beeb Beeb Ceeb continues to spout rubbish, causing my colleague in the UK, Ruper Wyndham, to write to the BBc’s Director General, thus:

    31 January 2012.

    Mr. Mark Thompson
    Director General
    BBC White City Media Centre
    201 Wood Lane
    London W12 7TQ.

    Dear Mr. Thompson

    Editorial Standards

    At the conclusion of his forecast two or three weeks ago, a BBC weatherman announced that 2011 had now been declared to have been the second warmest year since records began. Whose records and the source of this declaration were not disclosed. As to the latter, one presumes it was the usual brace of culprits in East Anglia and Exeter. More recently, in the last few days, we have had the following:

    The supposed ‘consensus’ on man-made global warming is facing an inconvenient challenge after the release of new temperature data showing the planet has not warmed for the past 15 years. The figures suggest that we could even be heading for a mini ice age to rival the 70-year temperature drop that saw frost fairs held on the Thames in the 17th Century. Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997.

    This report was published by The Mail on Sunday. I do not recall seeing/hearing any mention of it on the BBC.

    If it was aired by the Corporation, an interesting question arises, to wit: “How can these two reports be reconciled?”

    If it was not, a different question arises, namely: “How does the BBC reconcile the omission with its much heralded claim to impartiality in its reporting of so-termed ‘climate change’?”

    These two reports are mutually antagonistic. They cannot both be right. Although it is widely recognised that, under your stewardship, the Corporation routinely ignores its own Editorial Standards, one of those standards nevertheless requires reports to be accurate. Taken together what these two examples confirm is that the BBC is either:

    • biased or
    • inaccurate or
    • quite possibly both.

    I would be glad to have this letter treated as a formal complaint.

    Yours sincerely

    R.C.E. Wyndham

    Cc: As the spirit moves

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  86. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    How come a small number of rabid protesters can scare the hell out of the Prime Minister? Yes, he ought to be protected at all costs, but why didn’t the police act more decisively?

    Key and National are not only prisoners of the racists, but rapidly becoming a laughing stock for their cowardice.

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  87. EverlastingFire (286 comments) says:

    Key – A spineless coward afraid to face down the racists.

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  88. tom hunter (4,838 comments) says:

    Speaking of theories that don’t match observable reality, yet are still passionately embraced, I took a closer look at one of the links provided by Other_Andy above. The title of the piece was in the link and could be read in his post, but I think it should be pulled out and bolded, plus who it’s from:

    Where’s the ‘bread, freedom and social justice’ a year after Egypt’s revolution?

    The Guardian

    It really is one of those moments where the crying could either come from ROFLMAO or from despair. One can just imagine Guardian journalists, editors, and readers clasping their hands together with anguished looks on the faces as they ask Why? Why? What happened to Egypt?

    There’s no longer any point in asking how they could be this stupid, even it does seem to be beyond belief.

    They’re morons. Complete, total, utter fucking morons deluded by the rock-solid certainty that they’re smartest, most compassionate people in the room. They’ll learn nothing from this of course, no more than they did from 1917, 1949 or 1975.

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  89. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    disaster politics
    Huh I thought we were discussing science
    “Based on the first results from CLOUD, it is clear that the treatment of aerosol formation in
    climate models will need to be substantially revised, since all models assume that nucleation is caused by
    these vapours and water alone. It is now urgent to identify the additional nucleating vapours, and whether
    their sources are mainly natural or from human activities.”

    you have quoted half a sentence told you comprehension is not your thing

    Gee funny how if you put it in context it does clearly not mean wot you say it does
    as I have previous stated you have not disproved climate change
    you have just pointed to a small area that needs and is receiving more research

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  90. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Luc @12;12,

    Your reading list is the climate change equivalent of reading a number of Bibles from different Christian denominations and claiming that it proves that atheism is wrong.

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  91. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Stuff headline now reads: “Key: I wasn’t scared.”

    Yes, we know that, Stuff. We know that Kingi was making it up, we always knew that.

    But in order to create breathless sensation on the front page top news item on your worthless website, you thought you’d pretend it did happen, so now you print Key’s response to the “have you stopped beating your wife” question which you always knew wasn’t true and which you deliberately setup knowing Key probably would respond as he has. You created news, in other words. You didn’t just report it.

    If anyone from Stuff reads this, tell your sub-editor in charge of those headlines today that their job is to report news, not make it, and don’t let them argue that they were reporting it, because that headline “I saw fear in his eyes” was changed from the more neutral one which initially led that story, so they did it on purpose which makes them mere propagandists. Tell them that, would you please. Cheers.

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  92. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    bereal,

    Why would you bother having a panic room to hide in when your bodyguard (after first saying Dotcom was
    not at home) then leads the police to show them where it’s hidden.

    Because the claim is that these armed home invaders initially didn’t identify themselves as police, and then proceeded to kick down (unlocked) doors and enter with their M4 automatic weapons. I’d think a safe room would be the obvious place to retreat to in such circumstances, for anybody.

    The police were simply tasked with picking up a fat computer nerd. Yet rather than sending a a car with a couple of uniformed officers to ring the front doorbell they stormed the house like it was Bin Laden’s compound. I mean, what did they think was going to happen? “Look out, he’s got a command prompt!”

    There is legitimate concern in this overkill and paramilitary-style policing.

    i thought that is was also damming evidence of police brutality that some police were wearing a bandana,
    known as a durag, popular in US street culture.

    The full quotation being: “He said the raid featured “cowboy” police officers wearing T-shirts, jeans and even a fitted bandana known as a durag, popular in US street culture.

    I don’t think anyone is claiming that this is evidence of brutality but instead revealing of a very peculiar attitude and mentality. I mean, what sort of sad-act wannabe would you have to be to dress up like you’re taking down gangsters in the Projects? Not only is it desperately sad and pathetic but also suggestive of a very low calibre of officer. Again, something of legitimate public concern. So we’re asking for rather more professionalism and maturity from the police, and a bit less fellating the FBI.

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  93. Brian Smaller (4,023 comments) says:

    @Everlasting FIre – I disagree. I wouldn’t waste my time trying to shout down a bunch of inbred ingrates with megaphones. Why shoudl Key. He has better things to do with his time – like spending the day with his family having a barbie and a few beers. Waitangi Day celebrations are a joke and a complet ewaste of time and money. You don’t need to be Nostradamus to predict how it goes year after year.

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  94. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Manolo
    i’m not sure that the hell was scared out of J K or that he is a coward but the rest of your 1.08 is spot on the money.
    It stood out like dogs balls for all to see that there could be a bit of trouble. This was a police fail.

    When a bunch of no hoping losers like that can prevail it just beggars belief.

    i get it that police don’t want to be seen as over reacting but, to allow a hand full of fat ignorant dole bludgers
    to run the show and shit on law and order is not a good look.

    They could have done better.

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  95. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    Luc,

    This is the sort of thing we mean when we say that the AGW theory has been proved wrong. The alarming predictions that were made, and which follow from the theory, simply failed.

    We check the main predictions of the climate models against the best and latest data. Fortunately the climate models got all their major predictions wrong. Why? Every serious skeptical scientist has been consistently saying essentially the same thing for over 20 years, yet most people have never heard the message — here it is, put simply enough for any lay reader willing to pay attention.

    http://joannenova.com.au/2012/01/dr-david-evans-the-skeptics-case/

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  96. cha (4,014 comments) says:

    I mean, what sort of sad-act wannabe would you have to be to dress up like you’re taking down gangsters in the Projects?

    It seems the Miami model has arrived.

    http://crimethinc.com/movies/miamimodel.html

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  97. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Griff, I’m not arguening against climate change. I’m stating that CERN have experimental evidence that current CO2 models cannot be relied upon.

    And it’s not a ‘small’ area, it’s one requireing ‘substantial revision’.

    The revision requires new research, to develop a new hypothesis for cloud formation and the development of new climate models. This may or may not be dominated by human acivities. Which is why CERN are being so conservative in the presentation of their results.

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  98. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    I’ll post this again. A number of you don’t appear to know the difference between weather and climate, just as you don’t appear to know what occurs when an *underlying trend* is overlapped by a number of cycles:

    http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/cmb/hazards/2011/12/enso-global-temp-anomalies.png

    Reminder; we are emerging from a particularly deep solar minimum and are currently in a La Nina phase of the weather cycle.

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  99. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    I’ll explain it for you Griff, are you hung over today or something?

    Last decade is warmest on record – this is done by averaging the temperatures for all the days of those 10 years and comparing it with the averaging of all the days in other decades on record.
    If I average my height for all the days in the 10 years of my twenties, it is my tallest decade on record.
    Am I still growing at age 30?
    So – where’s your proof the earth is still warming?

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  100. flipper (4,060 comments) says:

    As for the likes of Chrssie the Wussie, Luc and a few others, their devotion to mendacity is an odd albeit widespread phenomenon. My non-peer reviewed hypothesis is that, like a tendency to diarrhoea (verbal and perhaps otherwise), it probably goes in families; runs in the genes.

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  101. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    @EverlastingFire

    “Key – A spineless coward afraid to face down the racists.”

    You might be right but I think you could be proven wrong. Key tries to get a consensus on issues but only up to a point.
    This disgraceful spectacle (Isn’t ‘Waitangi Day’ always like that?) might be a turning point.
    You can’t satisfy the racists and the extremists, every concession is a stepping stone for the next concession and even Key might finally recognise the end-game of these extremists and see the futility of trying to get a consensus.

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  102. TimG_Oz (862 comments) says:

    This gave me a laugh. It is fiction written after Iran threatened to boycott Samsung over its dealings with Israel

    http://www.shalomlife.com/business/16625/iran-threatens-boycott-of-all-electronic-companies/

    “Google is owned by Jews, has a centre in Israel, and their motto ‘Don’t be evil’ doesn’t sit well with us,” :-)

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  103. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    The Escalator:

    How realists view global warming verses how ‘skeptics’ view it:

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics/SkepticsvRealists_500.gif
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    NASA Scientists Expect More Rapid Global Warming In The Very Near Future:

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/NASA-scientists-expect-more-rapid-global-warming-in-the-very-near-future-part-2.html

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  104. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    This is seriously entertainingly edifying: http://jayisgames.com/games/the-scale-of-the-universe-2/

    Scroll right out and then all the way in… wheeeeeeee

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  105. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    scotty, you might find this edifying too

    http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/ipcc_graphic_bazinga.jpg

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  106. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Scott, those observations show what pretty much all other global temperature observations show; that global temperatures have plateaued since about 1998.

    IPCC CO2 models predicted linear increase in temperature, and are becoming increasingly less accurate with time.

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  107. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Jeez wat dabney, you joining the cop haters too ?

    Consider.
    This fat computer nerd had huge financial resourses. He was aware that the man might come for him someday.
    He had a staff of 50 odd.
    He had at least one personal bodyguard who apparently was armed. (thats to be decided yet)
    Police were unsure exactly what to expect.

    NZ Police were aware that this arrest would make international headlines.
    Had a couple of officers knocked on the door and the nerd barricaded himself inside and it turned into a
    hostage situation, what then ?
    As it was they did a good job. Had they fucked up ?…………..Well they didn’t. Well done NZ Police.

    Why would you put huge moment on what some officers were wearing ?
    There was at least one Inspector in full dress uniform present.
    Why would you want to take the word of a shithead like Wayne Tempero as the gospel truth ?

    It sounds as if you have been suckered in to the belief that NZ Police can be subservient to other
    law enforcement agencies such as the FBI They can’t be.

    You believe That NZ Police has “a low calibre of officer” Well mate, you are entitled to that opinion.
    i dissagree.

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  108. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Hey scotty, this one’s even better
    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fIkcHuB8IlA/TywuKPa1wHI/AAAAAAAAAPU/nTFJXPGo7o8/s1093/afterSkS.gif

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  109. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    Gee you really like your argument that a known progression with a known end point is directly correlated to any progression with an unknown end point

    you of of course know that pattern renegotiation is used in IQ tests
    If your hypothesis is a reflection of your pattern matching skills I would really love to see your test scores
    :shock: :lol:

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  110. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    You introduced the argument Griff, are you admitting it was a logical fallacy now?

    Link to a test and I’ll post you a screenshot of my score within the allowed timeframe. FYI my average from all online tests I’ve taken is above 130. Are you up for the challenge? Book a time so I’m at my computer and ready.

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  111. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Had a couple of officers knocked on the door and the nerd barricaded himself inside and it turned into a
    hostage situation, what then ?

    What do you mean, what then? So what? Dotcom was hardly likely to take one of his own family or staff hostage. That’s mental. If that was ever a danger the police would have played it differently. That risk wasn’t even an issue, that’s not why they did it that way.

    Frankly I think this is bullshit. The police are totally over the top on this so are Crown Law so is the judge by denying bail to one of the best known faces in NZ. I mean even if he was disguised do you seriously think he could get past any international airport and haven’t the courts heard of electronic bracelets? I thought that happened all the time, for home detention. But no, we are treating him not as we would have treated an NZ operation had he been charged with copyright violation here, we’re treating him as the US would. And newsflash, haven’t you seen how the US authorities treat everyone these days? Haven’t you seen all the OTT authoritarian behaviour ALL US authorities and agencies exhibit these days on a daily basis? Like the TSA reaction to the slightest challenge to their “authoriti” there are thousands of stories there alone not to mention all the aggressive law enforcement actions all the time.

    I wish the NZ govt had had the guts to tell the US to fuck off and we’ll get it done but its going to be done our way, not your way. But no. In order to lick the boots of the masters for the sake of the TPP, we railroad this guy who is being treated completely against our normal NZ legal procedure.

    The Herald article on the copyright violation penalty here doesn’t merit extradiction is, I hope and assume if this point is real that its going to be vigorously raised by Dotcom’s team because while the coppers and law enforcement can get away with their OTT boot-licking, the law is the law and if that’s really the case, well, what’s there to do but appeal all the way to the SC.

    I mean if you think its reasonable for example to force all of Maga’s legitimate members who uploaded legitimate data to lose said data because the US authorities have frozen accounts to prevent payments to US server hosters, then you’re nuts. That’s completely OTT but this is how the US works. Their sense of justice has disappeared in favour of self-righteous authoritarian hysteria and you see this all over the US everyday, these days. Well fuck that. This country is not the good ole US of A and I for one, given what those poor bastards are going through now, am glad it’s not and it never should be.

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  112. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Hey wat dabney,
    on relection, i let you off a little bit lightly there mate.

    i should have stamped on your purile suggestion that the NZ Police were ‘fellating the FBI’
    much harder.
    That was the observation of a shithead.

    Law enforcement agencies work together for their mutual benefit where there are international agreements.

    Do you think that when the US Marshals found the bloke who murdered the mother of ‘Little Pumpkin” in the US
    and returned him to New Zealand ,where he was convicted of that crime, that they were “fellating NZ Police” ?

    Love to hear your response to that wat dabney.

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  113. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    match you and raise you five
    of course on line test do not take into account education levels so you would have to add in a correction say 2 points for every extra year of schooling :wink:

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  114. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Is China run by the triads?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btgfYfVnhgQ&feature=player_embedded

    Six part series on the triads

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d407gwTDEw4&feature=player_embedded

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhgGaRr-pZs&feature=player_embedded

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFRpKz7DTJ4&feature=player_embedded

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EcFCBrz2gZc

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkkVaMbx0GA&feature=player_embedded

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  115. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    How much extra schooling do you have (or do you think I have)? I completed 6th form, then some uni papers (math, stats, philosophy, comp-sci, psychology) but then just went into IT full time and since then all my qualifications are like Microsoft and Checkpoint type of stuff.

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  116. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    Smile-and-wave Key flees from Waitangi while Rome continues to burn: http://www.lindsaymitchell.blogspot.co.nz/2012/02/sunday-graph-growth-we-dont-need.html

    Muster some courage, Prime Minister!

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  117. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    left school during the forth form

    do you think I would not skew the argument for my own benefit :twisted:
    that is say ten points

    I am am sure I can hit 130

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  118. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    fatnuts, you weren’t paying attention. Did you notice anything about the respective La Nina cycles and El Nino phases and the effect they have on global average atmospheric temperature?

    In a nutshell, we’re talking about the difference between what something looks like and what it actually means.

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  119. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    I always give you the benefit of the doubt griff. I’m a generous guy ;)

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  120. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    scotty, a few days ago you were claiming the hottest 12 month period (endpoint sometime in 2010 I think?) was in a La Nina year. Do you still claim that after posting that graph?

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  121. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    reid
    this is better than beating yourself to death about climate change, right ?

    Without going through each point that you have failed to understand one by one i’ll try and cut through
    the bullshit for you. ( the law doesn’t recognise your emotions, however genuine or mistaken you may be.)

    Dotcom has been charged with a crime in the USA

    We have an extradition agreement with the USA

    US law enforcement requested us to detain Dotcom and send him to the US to answer the charges.
    (kind of like when we requested them to find the bloke who was eventually convicted of the murder of the
    mother of ‘Little Pumpkin’ here in NZ)

    We acted on their righteous request.

    Dotcom can, and will, defend himself from extradition to the best he can.
    He will be extradited or not (under our law) and convicted in the USA or not. Under the law.

    The Law does not recognise how you or wat or v2 feel about it.
    It is what it is.

    If you feel you must denigrate your own Police Force ( sorry Police ‘Department’ since Howard Broad) for carrying out the law then that is a matter for you.
    (you dont like it. Fine. Get yourself elected to parliament and get the law changed.)

    Where have i got that wrong reid ?

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  122. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    bereal,

    You seem to have confused a computer nerd with Tony Montana.

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  123. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Scott, CO2 models are shown to be flawed. Predictions from CO2 models are shown to be increasing in their divergance from observation.

    Citing La Nina etc as a reason to continue to support a CO2 model predictions now requires one adopting a beleif mechanism, rather than a scientific one.

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  124. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    wat – I’m sure at times Dotcom confused himself with Tony Montana.

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  125. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    bereal,

    Do you think that when the US Marshals found the bloke who murdered the mother of ‘Little Pumpkin” in the US and returned him to New Zealand ,where he was convicted of that crime, that they were “fellating NZ Police” ?

    It’s not about the fact of the arrest it’s about the manner of the arrest and the way Hollywood paramilitary-style overkill was employed.

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  126. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Online IQ tests… They tell you you’re really smart, then for a ‘fee’ give you a breakdown of your profile. The latter is the real test.

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  127. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    Fairly sure that I have seen dotcom driving down the northern motorway in a Bentley with god as the numberplate
    guys a twat
    Still the might of the law was way over the top of that justified by his so called crime
    Would have loved to see the same force used against the ferals this weekend would be far more justified from a New Zealand point of view

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  128. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    this is better than beating yourself to death about climate change, right ?

    Bereal AGW is the most mind-mindbogglingly dis-interesting subject in the entire universe. It’s a tragi-comedy everytime it’s discussed, no matter when and no matter by whom.

    I mean, is there anything about it one can’t research on one’s own should one be the slightest bit interested? So if this is the case, what pray tell is the point of simply repeating your current munting position ad infinitum and have everyone else respond with their own current munting position ad infinitum as well. This is why to me, it’s both tragic and comic.

    Tragic because the people involved don’t even see this mindless braying breakout for what it is, sometimes for years, for that’s how long some persist in participating. Comic because even though Tavistock is evil, they obviously have quite a sense of humour. I mean fancy coming up with bollocks like this?

    “I know,” one of them said back in the fifties, “let’s see if the humans will take something so fucking outrageous that even an idiot would know it was mental but we’ll pretend it’s real through all the usual means. We can always pull it with real science if we ever have to but let’s try it and see what happens.”

    I mean that is funny, whichever way you look at it.

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  129. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    fatnuts

    if you want a real free one http://www.mensa.org.nz/online-test/

    And before the usual suspects jump in this is a bit of humor and no I am not a member or would I ever consider joining

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  130. Viking2 (11,470 comments) says:

    bereal (1,264) Says:
    February 5th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    Manolo
    i’m not sure that the hell was scared out of J K or that he is a coward but the rest of your 1.08 is spot on the money.
    It stood out like dogs balls for all to see that there could be a bit of trouble. This was a police fail.

    When a bunch of no hoping losers like that can prevail it just beggars belief.

    i get it that police don’t want to be seen as over reacting but, to allow a hand full of fat ignorant dole bludgers
    to run the show and shit on law and order is not a good look.

    They could have done better.

    Yea the could have. It would take a huge resource of course.
    None of this two helic[pters and 78 state thugs at dawn to arrest a few geeks and their women.
    They would have wanted the Airforce and 16 Helicopters with about 500 paras’s. But did they do it. Hell no to many camera’s about.

    What a fucking joke you are bereal. I guess you were late cause you had to wait till it was all over and you could give your megaphone back.
    Wanker.

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  131. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Sorry, but i can’t resist this.
    wat, you dumb fuck, you total moron, you airhead with no idea, you total drong.

    When the killer of the mother of ‘Little Pumpkin’ was detained in the USA it was by members of the
    local Chinese community who recognised him from the publicity from the US Marshals.

    Several ethnic chinese jumped him, restrained him, held him down and called law enforcement.
    He sustained a few injuries in the process. Those good Chinese citizens were paid a reward for their effort.

    So, a gormless prick such as yourself would say, “oh, they didn’t do it right, thats not fair, it was overkill.
    they should let him go. ”

    Now i don’t call people names but.
    You are a fuken card carrying idiot wat.

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  132. Yvette (2,819 comments) says:

    During the heated protests, Wi Popata screamed abuse at both the Maori and National Party politicians. With fellow protesters, he called Sharples a “nigger” and told Key to go home.

    It is my understanding that ‘nigger’ may be a shortening of ‘house-nigger’
    a more pointed insult …
    – Originally a term used during slave times for slaves who worked in the master’s house on a plantation, it is now derisively used for Black people who are always trying to ingratiate themselves with their neo-conservative white “masters” by distancing themselves from everything Black. See ‘sambo’, ‘uncle tom’

    Wi Popata may actually be an educated man – not just a thick brun-cou idiot

    It followed an unsuccessful attempt by about three men to charge at Key as he arrived on the marae this morning for Waitangi Day celebrations. Fairfax photographer Lawrence Smith was one of the people injured in the scuffle. His camera was pushed back into his face, causing a gash to his forehead. However Smith did manage to record three hours of very controversial audio for Winston.

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  133. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    Bereal

    None of us (to the best of my knowledge) have suggested that we shouldn’t have an extradition treaty with the USA. I’d suggest that if we didn’t we’d both end up hosting each others criminals while they thumbed their noses at the police who would be powerless to act.

    I go along with nearly all of your 3.04pm comment to ‘reid’ although I am less certain than you that Dotcom will get a fair trial in the USA…..there are too many powerful, very wealthy, vested interests up against him.

    My concern lies in the over reaction of our police. One geek with a few geek friends plus wives & kiddies does not warrant an airborne invasion dwarfed only incursions against the Vietcong. When was the last time the NZ Police deployed 70+ armed personnel on any assignment? The only difference in this case was the FBI involvement & it is my guess that they used their influence to orchestrate this over the top operation so as to influence our judiciary & convince our public that enablers of file sharing are desperate criminals.

    The tactics have worked since I note that bail has been refused & our normally crim hugging media have been very quiet about the judicial treatment of a man with no NZ criminal record.

    Our police are not corrupt……they have merely been choreographed & stage managed by a FBI managed by American politicians beholden to American corporates.

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  134. Viking2 (11,470 comments) says:

    He had at least one personal bodyguard who apparently was armed. (thats to be decided yet)
    Police were unsure exactly what to expect.

    Well seems that you can’rt read very well and undrstanding is a bit on the short side.
    The local policeman had interviewed Dotcom the day before and had filmed him using a hidden camera.

    all there for you to see.
    Wipe the shit offa your glasses and take another look at the world you dumb prick.

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  135. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Reid, given AWG scenarios are incredibly slow – boring is a given. How about Coronal Mass Ejection then? A storm on the sun, up to 1/3 of its diameter, spitting charged matter at the earth. It has the potential to do serious damage in a short space of time. A repeat of the storm in the 1850s could cause damage in the trillions.

    Why are we not hardening our power or comm infrastructure? Probably because there’s no solution through taxing industry, yet.

    Seriously, this gives me the shits far more than a bit of warming and extra CO2, which would probably just serve to improve vegetation growth.

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  136. fatnuts (160 comments) says:

    Griff I’ll pass. Recent surgery means I’m loaded up on codine. Hence I’ve time to waffle on on this damned thing. Far too adictive.

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  137. plebe (271 comments) says:

    Got to love JOHN KEY and our new masters the COMMUNIST chinese,recently in the united nations did john keys NZ delegation support the COMMUNIST CHINESE and russia against the people of Syria, both govts, commie and EX commie dictatorships are the arse holes of the free world, but under key they will be our masters.

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  138. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Aw shit.
    i’m just too tired now to respond to this other fuken gormless idiot Viking2
    in fact, that wanker doesn’t warrant a response
    Re Read what you have just posted @ 3.35 V2 (don’t you embarass yourself ?)
    Why do you insist upon making a dick of yourself you cop hater.

    i’m off fishing now,
    i’ll check in again about 10 pm.

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  139. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    the law doesn’t recognise your emotions, however genuine or mistaken you may be

    The law esp the criminal law operates within precedent in the courts and well set and understood procedural frameworks by the law enforcement and intelligence agencies. This is what happens. I can give you examples as to how serious this is taken such as when police stopped surveillance when the S.C. decided to stop all that just before Christmas but that’s just one to illustrate how this works. The reason they do all of this is to preserve public confidence in the impartiality of the legal and law enforcement systems. They know that in a free society everything depends upon the public perception that the authorities don’t overstep the boundaries and everyone gets treated equally and that is why all this happens.

    The point in my 2:17 is those procedures didn’t happen, in Dotcom’s case. They didn’t happen in the police operation they [arguably I concede] didn’t happen in the Crown Prosecutors position and they didn’t happen in the decision to deny bail. My suggestion is that had this been a similar request from say, Australia, the UK or Canada, it would not have gone down this way. Not in any of those areas.

    That’s really bad. For any citizen or legal resident of this country is entitled under our law to be treated equally and Dotcom was one of those and he isn’t being accorded that treatment. This treatment is coming specifically by request. It’s special. It is. Use your eyes if you don’t understand that as a simple fact. It cannot be denied.

    So the speculative question arises therefore, why?

    The simple reason I submit this is being treated by NZ as the crime of the century is because the Police Minister either old or new directed the police to do this in order to make the US happy re: the TPP. That’s the motive for this. Of course there will be nothing on paper. But the Minister(s) were surely informed. All of them get weekly updates on stuff like this under the “No surprises” policy and both the new and the old Ministers would have had this on their radars for a long time.

    If you feel you must denigrate your own Police Force ( sorry Police ‘Department’ since Howard Broad) for carrying out the law then that is a matter for you.

    I’m not bereal. Police follow orders. If the Minister has a private conversation with the Commissioner that it would be pretty durn terrif were the op to go down this particular way, why that never happened and the Minister would never do that, would they.

    But seriously if that IS what happened then I don’t blame the police. Even if they just did it cos they wanted to show the Feds just how badass they really were, I don’t blame them. But I do blame cute tricks they tried like the initial reports which implied the sawn-off was in Dotcom’s hands instead of in the locker, cos those aren’t necessary to impress the Feds.

    Hey BTW, did you know the owner of CNET which allowed the download of millions of copies of file-sharing software is one of the richest men in the US? Do you think the Feds are going to charge him as well? You bet they will. Of course. No question whatso-fucking-ever, no sirree.

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  140. travellerev (148 comments) says:

    I could not resist: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study–conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html

    Manolo and other assroted trolls anyone? ROFL

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  141. Viking2 (11,470 comments) says:

    When was the last time the NZ Police deployed 70+ armed personnel on any assignment?

    Not so long ago when a former Govt. decided that we had terrorist extremists living amoung women and children in Taneatua and Ruatoria.
    Same disgusting behavoir that will never be forgiven.
    Same illegal filming, same brutal handling of women and children.
    And nealy five years on, most charges not brought, not a single court case yet been to court and charges that will most probably never stick.

    I guess they just need to get these fellow out every now and then for a full scale practice. Pity they hadn’t done it today.

    Before that. Remeber the Foot and Mouth manufactured scare on Barrier.

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  142. Viking2 (11,470 comments) says:

    i’m off fishing now,
    i’ll check in again about 10 pm.

    Berreal.
    Don’t bother yourself.
    By the way are you a wharfie?

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  143. travellerev (148 comments) says:

    Assorted of course. LOL

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  144. cha (4,014 comments) says:

    Apparently only ‘honest rape’ merits abortion. And the inevitable twitter tag: #Honestrape

    sigh….

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  145. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    V2

    I ignored the Tuhoe episode as it is obvious now that the whole operation was set up by a corrupt Labour Government. I don’t deny that there is a percentage of the police who get their rocks off by doing Rambo stunts such as jumping out of choppers armed to the teeth. Witness the airborne arseholes vs the dope growers.

    Any organisation has its share of morons….the police are no exception but making a bad call is not corruption….just plain old humdrum day to day stupidity.

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  146. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Here you go Griff. 28 out of 33

    http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii530/RightNow2012/MTestresult.jpg

    Wonder if Travellerev would like to give the test a go too (without looking at my result explanations of course)
    http://www.mensa.org.nz/online-test/

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  147. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    t’rev – assroted trolls was much funnier.

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  148. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Another point about Dotcom is this is a copyright issue. The worst crime is violence, of any kind, right?

    Even a punch in the face from someone, is worse than a property crime. Is that right or wrong, ethically?

    In my world that’s right. This doesn’t mean ignoring property crime till every last bit of violence is dealt with, no, not at all.

    It means in the real world, striking the right balance in resources etc.

    At what point therefore does a property crime become worth pursuing?

    I submit the copyright owners have got to the US politicians in exactly the same way the Israeli lobbyists always have and the bankers and big pharma more recently have and that is, total subservience to the agenda or you don’t get anything in fact we fund your opposition next time you have to campaign.

    I suspect the AIPAC formula is in widespread practice now in Washington and this is driving this issue. It’s critical mass you see. They have to get a critical mass of Congressmen and Senators who cares which side then it’s all over rover and Hollywood and media companies have done this and this is where SOPA comes from. Not the people, the corporations.

    Do we as a sovereign nation really want to not just co-operate (for it’s dangerous not to) but not only that, be gung-ho about it?

    People know I can’t stand the mouse that roared anti-nuke bullshit which Hulun engineered in order to lurch us to Russia which NZ made while the Cold War was still running with future unknown, people know that I think that mouse that roared episode was bullshit.

    But I just wonder, from an entirely ethical but not, I concede real-politik pragmatic view, whether NZ shouldn’t just roar again, since this time to me, unlike last time, this time, the US seems definitely in the wrong here and maybe needs a lesson in: WE, are not, and don’t want to be, like YOU.

    Bearing in mind we’re not actually overruling the US govt, we’re overruling the corporations that control it.

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  149. Viking2 (11,470 comments) says:

    Naaska, had one of the 11 arrested working for me at the time. Lived up there nearly all his life but decided for the kids sake to move. Got called back on the morning by the ppolice and when he returned hauled out of his car in franot of his kids. Guns and all. After twice being locked up and badly treated was given anapology and sent home.
    Disgusting behavoir. Never ever been in touble with the police before and his freind was a local bobby.

    Talked to one of the AOS guys a week or so after they were there. They had been propaganderized by the Wgtn outfit that ran the thing. Were not at all happy about the way it went down.
    The police always wonder why they losose so many of their good people.

    Ask them and its always the same answer. Love my job, can’t stand the management. Heard this maybe 200 times over the years.

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  150. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    reid

    …”Bearing in mind we’re not actually overruling the US govt, we’re overruling the corporations that control it.”…..

    Agree with your sentiments but I wonder if nowadays taking on the corporates is taking on the country…they are all powerful. In the USSR of cold war times it was citizen vs the state. The parallel in modern day USA is citizen vs corporate.

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  151. travellerev (148 comments) says:

    Right now,

    My membership number in Holland was 1359 but that was back in the 90s when I was young and hadn’t adled my brain too much. I’m probably not that smart anymore but still considerably smarter then you and yes I liked Assrotes better too. LOL.

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  152. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    V2

    I’d rather hoped that the clean out of the deadwood at Police HQ may have seen the end of politicised policing but the Dotcom incident tends to prove that little changes. All the goodwill built up by feelgood crap about ‘communities together’ goes out the window after these incidents of officially sanctioned bullying.

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  153. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    I reckon NZ should send Key to London’s Olympic Games: our spineless PM can certainly run!

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  154. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    naaska
    just before i go.
    ‘Dotcom wont get a fair trial in the USA’
    Where will he get a fair trial ?

    Also. don’t know if it was you or johnboy to thank for what i thought was the best short and sweet sheep
    joke i heard in a long while.
    Whoever, thanks. Bears repeating.

    Bloke walks into the bedroom with a sheep under his arm.

    He says, ‘Darling, this is the pig I have to have sex with when you have one of your headaches.’

    She says, I think you will find that that is a sheep, you idiot.

    He says, I think you will find that I wasn’t talking to you.

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  155. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    Comrade Clark at work: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705398584/UN-leaders-consider-world-tax-to-fund-social-protection-services.html?s_cid=s10

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  156. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    just below yours scored a 27
    sorry do not know how to save and link

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  157. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    The parallel in modern day USA is citizen vs corporate.

    This is what makes it so very frightening nasska for corporates operate regardless of anything but naked self-interest, ethics not required indeed disqualifies one, at the higher levels.

    See here’s the thing. The people don’t recognise this. They don’t seem to see their politicians don’t pass laws for them, rather they pass laws for the people who give them the most donations. The politicians of course wish for one thing only: to be re-elected. If they can do that, in their eyes, they’re successful.

    But you have to raise huge amounts to do that and the money’s there, it’s just the strings.

    Why most Americans can’t and won’t and don’t see this obvious reality is down to the media who is owned and therefore editorially controlled by guess who? That’s right, the corporations. This is why the media is happy to talk endlessly about nothing but the agenda which consists of bread and circus: pro-sports, hollywood/celeb/fashion goings on, movies and very little about hard things like science, philosophy, stuff which would uplift not degrade and dumb down. For that is their goal. Firstly to distract and secondly to dumb down gradually.

    Anyone who thinks this is a conspiracy “theory” is frankly, a slack-jawed yokel with a seventh dan black belt in Village Idiocy since it is quite obvious all of the above is in fact happening today in America and has been for quite some time. If this FACT makes one compress one’s eyebrows together in a puzzled, quizzical kind of look, then I can’t help that.

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  158. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    ps passed for mensa at school 1979 did not take up membership

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  159. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Update on Stuff propaganda.

    Since 13:00-now Stuff has had on its execrable website as the first news item a propaganda photo of Key looking down with his mouth clenched looking shamefaced together with the propaganda “when did you stop beating you wife” headline response to a lie: “Key: I wasn’t scared”

    I mean this is disgusting. To take a comment from a protester that he was and make that the headline then to give his response to something that never even happened or was even possible, if one bothers to look at STUFF’S OWN VIDEO OF THE INCIDENT” this is a revolting breach of journalistic integrity. It really is. Can’t the Press Council do something about this blatant news generation? Of course not.

    They probably agree with it.

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  160. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    reid @ 4.50pm

    Agree…..the only question is how far do those corporate tentacles stretch? I have a nasty feeling that the answer is at least as far as Wellington for as long as we have the begging bowl out for a few hundred million a week to pay for the groceries.

    The same answer can be used for the question of why we signed up to the half baked Emissions Trading Scheme.

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  161. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Those who defend the use of Fossil Fuels are the same people who would defend slavery

    Yes, you read it right. They are not saying it (Yet) but you are probably a racist if you are a climate change skeptic or better, a climate change denier, using this term is better because it gives the impression that they are the same as holocaust deniers.
    And you know what the worst thing is, they are serious.
    They honestly believe it.
    They really are a sad bunch.

    Uncomfortable parallels

    by Bryan Walker on February 4, 2012

    I’ve often been struck by what I see as parallels between the defence of slavery in earlier times and today’s persistence with fossil fuel-based economies. I explored this in a post some time ago but an article in yesterday’s Guardian encourages me to return to the theme. Jean-François Mouhot, a visiting researcher at Georgetown University, writes about similarities between slavery and our current dependence on fossil-fuel-powered machines.

    http://hot-topic.co.nz/uncomfortable-parallels/#more-10428

    Bryan Walker is a long-retired English teacher who lives in Hamilton.
    Here is a the piece from the Grundian exploring this subject.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/feb/03/fossil-fuels-slavery

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  162. Johnboy (16,529 comments) says:

    So do I have to stop telling the wife to toss another bit of black shit on the bloody fire then Andy?

    That means the silly bint will burn all the wood and leave all the coal behind.

    Christ I really hate PC shit!

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  163. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    …the only question is how far do those corporate tentacles stretch?

    nasska if you want the conspiracy world’s take on it, the ChCh earthquake’s were engineered by HAARP to increase the level of NZ’s debt ratio, that’s how lacking in ethics they conceivably are and if one doesn’t understand HAARP and what it is then please don’t pretend it doesn’t exist by ignorant denial. The conspiracy world also promulgates the possibility the reason for Fukushima if it resulted from those HAARP events in March 2011, were designed to shred the Japanese DNA, since the Japanese race are too homogenous to be influenced by the mind control media bread and circus programming that has proved so successful in the West.

    If you want the normal world’s take on it then it doesn’t matter how far they stretch into society, the important thing is the extent to which they control politics in any given nation. Thank goodness ours appears so far free of their influence although I think there’s a lot of subterranean stuff here which never sees sunlight.

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  164. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    @Johnboy

    You want to make a bet that Bryan drives a car and that Jean-François Mouhot flies a plane around the world giving his batshit crazy lectures to the brainwashed Alinskyites?

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  165. Johnboy (16,529 comments) says:

    How many slaves would I need to cram under the bonnet of my Evo Andy to still get 0 to 100 in 5.2 sec?

    Do they run on 91 so I can save a few bucks at the pump?

    What will I tell the wife when she asks what they have hidden under their power hump?

    Questions, questions, questions.

    No easy answers! :)

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  166. cha (4,014 comments) says:

    Alinskyites?

    Nice dog whistle there sport.

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  167. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Fishing posponed. Due to wind.

    But ,i’d be interested to know.

    Why do you feel that Dotcom wont be able to get a fair go under our exisiing law ?

    Quite a simple question.
    What law could be more fair ?

    Try. oh, if only we had a system like they have in. say, Turkesmanistan, then dotcom would get a fair go.

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  168. Johnboy (16,529 comments) says:

    You should use a fishing kite beryl.

    The bigger the blow the further the line go! :)

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  169. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    bereal

    I reckon Dotcom will get a fair extradition hearing as for all their faults I can’t see the NZ Judiciary being influenced by FBI inspired theatrics…..the hyperbole could even be counterproductive. I’m not a lawyer but I’ve read opinions from those who should know indicating that Dotcom could walk if the crime he is accused of is not on our books.

    If he is extradited then the man has problems. He is one fairly eccentric geek up against everything corporate America can buy to throw at him. As ‘reid’ & I discussed above corporates have no soul….nothing matters other than profit & they own the politicians who in turn run the system that will determine Dotcom’s guilt or innocence.

    Either way without any evidence getting near a court his assets have been frozen & his business has been destroyed. In the USA you could kill your neighbour & be guaranteed of a fair trial. Interfere with the profits of a few corporates & the might of the almighty dollar will get you one way or the other.

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  170. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    nice one Johnboy.

    Would you like to offer an opinion.

    Where in the world would Dotcom get a fair trial ? A prince like that ………………

    Any one care to answer.

    How does Dotcom get a fair go ? Not possible. The Police of the world are so corrupt.
    Dot com knows everything.
    And he is smarter than the law.
    otherwise, why not elevate him to Sir Dotcom.

    That would give you a hardon V2 right ?

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  171. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Oh shit nasska
    Either he has broke the law or he has not.
    WTF about that do you not get ?
    You don’t agree with the law ?

    Change the law.

    Any other suggestions ?

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  172. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    bereal
    Ring the police and report a burg
    wot will you get we are busy come out and swear a complaint
    Report one in progress and you will get a patrol car 2 cops maybe a k9 if they are in the area
    The perp if arrested will spend a night in the cells and proberbly be out on the street the next day

    In this case
    The tosser who is only guilty of facilitating copy write infringement under our laws as far as I know, is arrested with “maximum prejudice”. Seventy two cops armed with automatic weapons smash their way into his home using shock and awe tactics. They then also confiscate all his possessions and he is denied bail

    Can you comprehend the difference

    Why did they not send a patrol car to pick him up He had the previously day been spoken to by the local cop. why the drama?

    Any excuses of he might have destroyed evidence surely the FBI has all the evidence it needs to convect already
    If they did not they should not be asking for extradition

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  173. tom hunter (4,838 comments) says:

    Alinskyites?

    Nice dog whistle there sport.

    Heh, heh. So now mentioning Alinsky equates to anti-semitic dog whistling? Nice piece of political judo: far better than simply pulling the race card. Of course there are these – ahem – pieces of history:

    Ryan Lizza wrote a 6,500-word piece on Alinsky’s influence on Obama for The New Republic, noting, “On his campaign website, one can find a photo of Obama in a classroom teaching students Alinskian methods. He stands in front of a blackboard on which he has written ‘Relationships Built on Self Interest,’ an idea illustrated by a diagram of the flow of money from corporations to the mayor.”

    Ah, but who cares about what the GOP-supporting NRO says when quoting Democrat-supporting TNR, when we’ve got the following to read:

    “Obama learned his lesson well. I am proud to see that my father’s model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008. It is a fine tribute to Saul Alinsky as we approach his 100th birthday.”

    I would think that Saul’s son, L. David Alinsky, who wrote that letter to the Boston Globe, probably knows of which he speaks – especially as he’s a modern lefty and as such an expert on anti-semitic dog-whistling.

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  174. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    bereal

    Dotcom has been arrested for a crime that occurred in America (if it was a crime & if it happened). He is being held in custody in this country while the NZ Police & their FBI advisers try to find enough evidence to convince a judge that he should face trial in America.

    You say “Either he has broke the law or he has not.” That is what the current process is about & the results will stand or fall on what law applies where & when the supposed offense happened.

    I don’t know enough about the law to want to change it. I don’t know whether Dotcom is guilty or not mostly because I’m not privy to the facts. What I do know is that I’m totally unimpressed with the gung ho arrest…..either our cops are acting as bum boys for the FBI or they are watching too much American television.

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  175. HB (321 comments) says:

    why did Key run away like a scared little kid?
    So what if the crowd couldn’t hear his speech that was no doubt full of meaningless and boring platitudes… He said his security was fine so why didn’t he mix and mingle with the people and talk to them? He didn’t necessarily need to try and engage with the protesters – he could have just moved around and chatted to the hosts

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  176. Johnboy (16,529 comments) says:

    Beryl: Trial by ordeal would be the best and fairest for Dotcom.

    Jokers dressed, as poor peasants, who had lost their data uploads, could march on the Chrisco Mansion by night carrying flaming torches and drive stakes thru his car collection before his red rimmed eyes till he confessed to being a evil virtual vampire.

    He could then offer to forfeit all his gold to Blinglish who would do a Sheriff of Nottingham type pose, sneer and cart it all off to Good King John Key who would suddenly become very relaxed about the whole deal.

    A win win situation if ever I saw one! :)

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  177. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    why did Key run away like a scared little kid?

    As far as you can see on the Stuff video HB, he didn’t. Sutff however apparently just decided for their own reasons to report it as if he did.

    Why do you think Stuff would do something like that?

    Beryl: Trial by ordeal would be the best and fairest for Dotcom.

    Johnboy since your suggested solution involves neither strip searching in public nor even any anal probing in private, I don’t think the US authoriti’s are going to be at all interested.

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  178. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    Two rednecks, Bubba and Earl, were driving down the road drinking a couple of bottles of Bud.
    The passenger, Bubba, said “Lookey thar up ahead, Earl, it’s a police roadblock!! We’re gonna get busted fer drinkin’ these here beers!!”
    “Don’t worry, Bubba,” Earl said. “We’ll just pull over and finish drinkin’ these beers then peel off the label and stick it on our foreheads, and throw the bottles under the seat.”
    “What fer?”, asked Bubba.
    “Just let me do the talkin’, OK?,” said Earl.
    Well, they finished their beers, threw the empties out of sight & put label on each of their foreheads.
    When they reached the roadblock, the sheriff said, “You boys been drinkin’?”
    “No, sir,” said Earl while pointing at the labels. “We’re on the patch.”

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  179. Steve (4,561 comments) says:

    Seems the sheep are asleep Johnboy, but Gin Gin is getting hammered.
    I am just starting (D)

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  180. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    I think “vassal state’ is the correct term, nasska.

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  181. Johnboy (16,529 comments) says:

    If you want to strip search and anal probe the 6′ 7″ bloke go ahead reid.

    I’ll get some popcorn and a few beers in and pull up a chair behind the armoured glass while you proceed! :)

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  182. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    “Heh, heh. So now mentioning Alinsky equates to anti-semitic dog whistling?”

    Why mention Alinsky at all? Obama was 10 when he died and has never mentioned him as an influence.

    I have little doubt Gingrich and Winston Peters have a fair bit in common. Not that I’m saying he’s an anti-Semite, but he doesn’t balk at nodding to the anti-Semite voter who recognizes a conspiratorial wink when he see one. No scruples that man, even for a conservative.

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  183. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    @Tom

    I thought he was taking the mickey.
    I mean the irony of his comment.
    Then again…..

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  184. Steve (4,561 comments) says:

    Teachers, born without humour.

    This kid got a 0 % iN HIS EXAM

    Q1. In which battle did Napoleon die?
    * his last battle

    Q2. Where was the Declaration of Independence signed?
    * at the bottom of the page

    Q3. River Ravi flows in which state?
    * liquid

    Q4. What is the main reason for divorce?
    * marriage

    Q5. What is the main reason for failure?
    * exams

    Q6. What can you never eat for breakfast?
    * Lunch & dinner

    Q7. What looks like half an apple?
    * The other half

    Q8. If you throw a red stone into the blue sea what it will become?
    * It will simply become wet

    Q9. How can a man go eight days without sleeping ?
    * No problem, he sleeps at night.

    Q10. How can you lift an elephant with one hand?
    * You will never find an elephant that has only one hand..

    Q11. If you had three apples and four oranges in one hand and four apples and three oranges in other hand, what would you have ?
    * Very large hands

    Q12. If it took eight men ten hours to build a wall, how long would it take four men to build it?
    * No time at all, the wall is already built.

    Q13. How can u drop a raw egg onto a concrete floor without cracking it?
    *Any way you want, concrete floors are very hard to crack .

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  185. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Darn Scott, you got us there….
    We don’t like Alinsky, Marx and Soros so we must be anti-semetic.
    What does that say about all those who oppose John Key?
    It shows again that Alinsky’s methods are alive and well.
    Pick the target,
    freeze it,
    personalize it and
    polarize it.

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  186. tom hunter (4,838 comments) says:

    Why mention Alinsky at all? Obama was 10 when he died and has never mentioned him as an influence.

    And Obama was not even born when Keynes died, and I don’t think he’s ever mentioned him as an influence either.

    No? Still missing the point – as usual? Hmmmmm – okay:

    “Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.”

    No? (snaps fingers in front of Chris’s eyes) Still nothing?

    Alinsky died in 1972, when Obama was 11 years old. But three of Obama’s mentors from his Chicago days studied at a school Alinsky founded, and they taught their students the philosophy and methods of one of the first “community organizers.”

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  187. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    Previous Joke
    The top 20 things not to say to a cop when he pulls you over.

    20. I can’t reach my license unless you hold my beer.

    19. Sorry officer, I didn’t realize my radar detector wasn’t plugged in.

    18. Aren’t you the guy from the villiage people?

    17. Hey, you must have been doing 125 to keep up with me, good job.

    16. I thought you had to be in relatively good physical shape to be a police officer.

    15. I was going to be a cop, but I decided to finish high school instead.

    14. Bad cop. No donut.

    13. You’re not going to check the trunk, are you?

    12. Gee, that gut sure doesn’t inspire confidence.

    11. Didn’t I see you get your butt kicked on cops?

    10. Is it true that people become cops because they are too dumb to work at McDonalds?

    9. I pay your salary

    8. So uh, you on the take or what?

    7. Gee officer, that’s terrific. The last officer only gave me a warning.

    6. Do you know why you pulled me over? Okay, just so one of us does.

    5. I was trying to keep up with traffic. Yes, I know there is no other cars around, that’s how far they are ahead of me.

    4. What do you mean have I been drinking? You are the trained specialist.

    3. Well, when I reached down to pick up my bag of crack, my gun fell off of my lap and got lodged between the brake and the gas pedal, forcing me to speed out of control.

    2. Hey, is that a 9mm? That’s nothing compared to this 44 magnum.

    1. Hey, can you give me another one of those full cavity searches?

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  188. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    A man came into a gun shop and asked to see a shotgun.
    The salesman, seeing that the customer was obviously very
    wealthy showed him a Belgian handcrafted mother of pearl
    inlay weapon and demonstrated its fine points.
    A bargain at $20,000.

    The customer says, “No, not quite what I need.”

    Then the salesman brings out an English model and shows off
    its fine points. “A steal at only $7,500.”

    The customer says, “No, I don’t need anything that fancy.”

    The salesman, disappointed, shows the customer a
    Winchester ‘over and under’ mass production model.
    Only $129.95.

    The customer says, “That will do nicely. After all, it is
    just an informal wedding.”

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  189. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Say, Tom, this Alinsky fella sounds like my kind of guy!

    Sort a working man’s Noam Chomsky.

    But what was his stance on the Question of Palestine?

    Any idea.

    No mention on Wikipedia.

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  190. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    A couple of drinking buddies who are airplane mechanics are in a hangar at Auckland airport
    It’s fogged in and they have nothing to do.
    One of them says to the other, “Man, have you got anything to drink?”

    The other one says, “No, but I hear you can drink jet fuel, and it will kinda give you a buzz.”

    So they do drink it, get smashed and have a great time, like only drinking buddies can.

    The following morning, one of the men wakes up and he just knows his head will explode if he gets up, but it doesn’t. He gets up and feels good. In fact, he feels great! No hangover!

    The phone rings. It’s his buddy. The buddy says, “Hey, how do you feel?”

    “Great”, he said! “Just great”! The buddy says, “Yeah, I feel great too, and no hangover. That jet fuel stuff is great. We should do this more often!

    “Yeah, we could, but there’s just one thing . . ”

    “What’s that?”

    “Did you fart yet?”

    “No . . . ”

    “Well, DON’T, ’cause I’m in Dunedin

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  191. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    Luc Hansen

    You have not read the book?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals

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  192. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    A male traffic sergeant with the New Zealand Police was so
    paranoid about the size of his willy that
    he could never work up the courage to have sex. Then one day
    he fell in love with a beautiful female nurse.

    One fine evening, they went back to her place. She put on
    some soft music and led him into the bedroom. Totally
    mortified, he told her of his problem.

    “Don’t worry,” She said. “I’m a nurse. I won’t laugh.”

    Blushing the man drops his trousers.

    “It’s OK,” she said. “I’ve seen lots smaller than that.”

    “Really?” the relieved sergeant asked.

    She nodded. “Yes,” she chuckled, “I used to work in the
    maternity ward.”

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  193. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    The minister of a small congregation was about to start his sermon when he noticed a young woman in the front row, wearing a tight dress with her boobs almost hanging out.
    He couldn’t concentrate on his message to the flock, so he dismissed the service and asked to speak to the woman after everyone else had left the church.
    When they were alone, the reverend said in his sternest lecturing voice, “just what do you mean coming to church dressed like that?”
    “Why reverend, ” the young thing replied, “all of my boyfriends tell me that they can hear the angels sing when they put their heads on my breasts.”
    “Hmm, well, let me check.” said the man of the cloth, placing his head between her tits. After several minutes, he raised his head and said, “I don’t hear any angels singing!”
    “Of course not reverend,” she said. “You’re not plugged in yet!”

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  194. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    i find it interesting , and distuurbing, that i find myself to be a minoritry of one.

    No, i should say suprised. gob smacked maybe.

    To find myself distanced from the likes of johnboy and naaska
    Who i had thought until now. did have a brain.
    Seems, Maybe i was wrong.
    try this. johnboy and/or naaska.

    Do you believe in the rule of law ?

    Just one question. Do you believe in the rule of law ?

    Otherwise, where has the law got it wrong ?

    Now that is quite simple.

    Where, in relation to your idol Kim Dotcom has the law got it wrong ?

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  195. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    Q. What do you get if you cross Otara with a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken?

    A. Followed.

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  196. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    One day a very, very drunk man got on a bus and fell into a seat next to a priest. The priest looked at the drunk and found that his face was covered in lipstick and he had a half bottle of whisky sticking out of his pocket.
    Suddenly the drunk turned to the priest and said, “Father, do you have any idea what causes arthritis?”
    “Yes,” the priest replied, “It is caused by loose living, wicked women and too much alcohol!”
    “Well I’ll be damned,” said the drunk in surprise.
    The bus carried on it’s journey and the priest, feeling a little guilty, nudged the drunk in the shoulder and apologised to him.
    “I’m very sorry,” said the priest, “I didn’t mean to come on all strong. Tell me, how long have you been suffering from arthritis?”
    “I haven’t,” replied the drunk, “I was just reading here that the Pope is!”

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  197. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    bereal

    I’m running out of ways to explain the position the way I see it…..tell me first what jurisdiction are we debating. NZ (extradition only) or the USA (alleged crime re file sharing).

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  198. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Thanks Griff.

    i haven’t read the book and after following your link I’m none the wiser.

    I would say that maybe Osama bin Laden was a follower of Alinsky, and certainly that particular tactic of goading your opponent into a reaction is well understood, too, by Israel’s elite.

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  199. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    nasska

    bereal doesn’t debate.

    It’s worse than Phil ever was.

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  200. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    Irish guy goes on Mastermind:

    “Your chosen subject?” Magnus Magnusson asked.

    “Easter Rising of 1916, sir,” replied Pat.

    “Time starts now … How long did the Easter Rising last?”

    “Pass.”

    “Who led the Easter Rising of 1916?”

    “Pass.”

    “How many men were involved in the Easter Rising of 1916?”

    “Pass.”

    Suddenly an Irish voice boomed from the studio audience:

    “That’s right, Pat – don’t tell the bastards anything!”

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  201. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Fuck off Luc Hansen for a start.
    We all know that a nudists point of view doesn’t count.
    Now if we want to be serious, maybe someone could explain where i have got it wrong.
    i note that nasska @ 8.40 admits that he is fucked.
    What else can i do ?

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  202. Viking2 (11,470 comments) says:

    Hear hear.

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  203. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    Okay Andy, I take your point. Gingrich wasn’t winking at anti-Semites at all. (And not at you either Andy…. You’re anti-non-Hebrew-Semitic)

    He’s simply a student and practitioner of political manipulation, and he keeps his signed copy of Saul Alinski’s “Rules for Radicals” next to his much thumbed and cherished Machiavelli’s ‘The Prince’.

    :arrow: Alinsky writes, “What follows is for those who want to change the world from what it is to what they believe it should be.”

    Perhaps Newt would like to simplify divorce to a quick and easy declaration of:

    “I divorce you you sick bitch!” :mrgreen:

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  204. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    tell me first what jurisdiction are we debating. NZ (extradition only) or the USA (alleged crime re file sharing).

    nasska I think I know the answer. Am I allowed to say or this between you and bereal?

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  205. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Latest footage: FKN News

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  206. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    “You’re anti-non-Hebrew-Semitic..”

    You’re a ‘Barrel of laughs’ Scott…
    Almost right (So you think), yet so wrong.

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  207. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    To me, the nub of the Dotcom issue is not the fact of arrest, but the manner of the arrest.

    I understand that protection of copyright is dear to artists and corporations, but, hey, the genie is out of the bottle, I’m afraid.

    There needs to be some kind of adaptation by these parties.

    Another scary thing for me is that the penalties in the US are just horrendous, disgustingly horrendous, and a father of five, who at worst threatens no-one’s personal safety, is disappeared into the US (in)justice system.

    I read that he also enjoys lovely being surrounded by lovely lasses wearing little, if anything, so I guess that would be a killer for bereal.

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  208. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Now there you have it for all to see.
    Forget the legality of the question.
    For a moron like Luc it’s all about the manner.

    Does anyone with even half a brain need to see what an effing idiot we have here in this nudist Luc Hansen ?

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  209. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Like I said above Luc, the owner of CNET is one of the richest men in America and will he be prosecuted?

    So that’s the justice level operating here.

    I also agree re manner of arrest and further, ask why above and can’t find anything but venal interests behind that.

    Indeed political interference in operational matters is my hypothesis but no proof of course but lots at stake here, in this op.

    I mean more than half the Senate and Congress have been paid for this kind of outcome. This is a test case. If the US doesn’t put this guy into supermax for 50 years, those politicians hence Justice Dept hence State Dept hence MFAT hence MoJ then fuck, what happens to the TPP. I mean, crikey.

    It all depends on the public not waking up. Of course they’d do it if the media alerted them to what’s happening, but the media won’t, since its run by the same people who paid for this law.

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  210. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    The wife has been missing for a week now and the police said i should prepare for the worst. So i went to the charity shop to get all her clothes back.

    Irish girl goes 2docs an asks 4the pill, but ur 6 months pregnant! Says the doc, i no she says,but paddys found another hole an i dont want a f**kin hump on me back as well!

    Spent some time at the wife’s grave last night.. God bless her,, she thinks I’m digging a pond.

    Apparently, if a woman drinks 2 glasses of wine a day it increases the chance of a stroke! If u let her finish the bottle she’ll probably suck it as well

    A gypo girl is about to get married. Her mum says, “Emerald, you do realise that when you’re married your husband will want to stick his most prized possession in to where you piss?” The daughter replies, “Shut up Ma, how the fuck’s he gonna fit his Transit van in the sink?”

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  211. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    NEW YORK – USA - In a remarkable admission by former Nixon era Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, reveals what is happening at the moment in the world and particularly the Middle East.

    Speaking from his luxurious Manhattan apartment, the elder statesman, who will be 89 in May, is all too forward with his analysis of the current situation in the world forum of Geo-politics and economics.

    “The United States is bating China and Russia, and the final nail in the coffin will be Iran, which is, of course, the main target of Israel. We have allowed China to increase their military strength and Russia to recover from Sovietization, to give them a false sense of bravado, this will create an all together faster demise for them. We’re like the sharp shooter daring the noob to pick up the gun, and when they try, it’s bang bang. The coming war will will be so severe that only one superpower can win, and that’s us folks. This is why the EU is in such a hurry to form a complete superstate because they know what is coming, and to survive, Europe will have to be one whole cohesive state. Their urgency tells me that they know full well that the big showdown is upon us. O how I have dreamed of this delightful moment.”

    “Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people.”

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  212. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    All right for him he will not be around to experience the fallout

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  213. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    hey reid,
    it’s not happening for you mate.
    Cirikey.

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  214. kowtow (8,464 comments) says:

    Kissinger is clearly going mad.
    If anyone thinks that there’s a “cunning plan ” out there from the USA to dominate the world they too are mad.

    I remember this guy and Nixon going to China after the Cultural Revolution and shaking hands with the senile blood covered Mao,all the talk then was the Chinese would be a huge market buying all goods.Now all our jobs are there ,we are buying their goods and they are building aircraft carriers.

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  215. kowtow (8,464 comments) says:

    Nasska
    That expert on the Rising got through to the final and won……….

    What do you call a gap between 2 mountains?

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  216. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Reid….
    You Wascally Wabbit!
    Griff and kowtow, more world shocking news revealed!
    Paris Hilton has converted to Islam and marine biologists have been baffled at the major increase in numbers of gay sharks around the world’s oceans. Don’t miss the story about the 61-year-old civil servant who married the alien who hails from the Centaurus A (NGC 5128) galaxy.

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  217. kowtow (8,464 comments) says:

    aargh

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  218. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    If anyone thinks that there’s a “cunning plan ” out there from the USA to dominate the world they too are mad.

    Absolutely mental kowtow.

    I mean everyone knows the plan isn’t coming from the US. I mean crikey. These people are trans-national. They live all over the world and control all of it, not just the US. Der. That’s just basic.

    You’re right to call the idiots on that one kowtow, well done. Who the hell was so profoundly ignorant as to ever say anything like that, anyway?

    They really need help in Basic World Mechanics 101, don’t they.

    Crikey. They probably studied under NCEA, what’s the bet.

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  219. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    This is good.

    http://www.alternet.org/story/151850/8_reasons_young_americans_don%27t_fight_back_–_how_the_us_crushed_youth_resistance?page=entire

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  220. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Crikey
    Whatever.

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  221. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    All good.
    G’nite. Good luck to your family.
    Crikey.

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  222. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Why Cameron is moving? (Note what it says about metals: you have any sense, buy silver and gold now, not certificates, bullion.)

    http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/read-between-the-lines-hollywood-mogul-buys-2600-acres-of-farmland-moving-to-new-zealand_02012012

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  223. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    OK, final answer to anyone who ever talks about AGW again: a new super-Earth, only 22 light years away. So there. That’s the answer, so can we shut up about it now for ever and ever?

    http://news.ucsc.edu/2012/02/habitable-planet.html

    And let’s just enjoy that global warming till we can move in over there:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2095052/Think-cold-HERE-Beautiful-pictures-globe-world-freezing.html

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  224. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    Ha ha ha
    looks like I should re stock my bilge
    got the energy sources fitted
    wind and solar
    land is only good if you can hold it
    heard the kermadecs are nice and warm
    or maybe fiord land
    no one there either
    yum yum tuna and seagull
    maybe should put a few packets of seed in the bilge as well
    corn , peppers, and pumpkin and stuff like that
    of course heirloom types none of this f2 hybrid rubbish
    got the full tool kit carpenter, mechanic ,first aid, sewing, wear for all seasons, yeast and all that
    and the skills and knowledge
    half an hour and I am gone
    better ring us quick reid cos I will not be waiting

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  225. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    I’m self sufficient, I brew my own beer.

    Are you living in a ship griff?

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  226. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    reid, Peter Schiff also recommends gold
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyQeEPixjdo

    Love this – “it won’t be the first time when everybody’s been wrong and I’ve been right”

    Mind you, I don’t believe there necessarily has to be ulterior motives to James Cameron wanting to live here. He could just genuinely like the place.

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  227. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    travellerev ” I’m probably not that smart anymore but still considerably smarter then you ”

    To be honest I don’t have enough evidence to judge if you’re smarter than me, so if you say you are then sure, why not?

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  228. Griff (7,694 comments) says:

    home base is 53ft of sand cement and steel with a couple of sticks of aluminum to make it look pretty
    Blue and white ketch scott watson and all that
    Changeable multi million dollar view and no rates or power bills
    There is a bay out in the gulf that has no houses, in the census it has one with three bedrooms and two toilets :grin:

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