Green ambitions

February 19th, 2012 at 9:21 am by David Farrar

A bigger, stronger Green Party says it will not be “tuakana teina” to anyone.

Green co-leader Metiria Turei is today set to stake out what the party plans to make of its increased caucus and party membership.

In Maoridom, “tuakana teina” describes a relationship between an older and younger sibling. In a keynote speech to the Green Party policy conference in Palmerston North today, Turei will assert that the party should expect to be in government in 2014, but not in a “tuakana teina” relationship with either of the major parties.

“What we have seen when Labour and National have negotiated deals, the small parties have been the receivers of whatever the bigger parties want to dole out but not necessarily decision making,” Turei said.

“We will be the ones who decide how we engage with government. From the outset, we need to make it really explicit that we are the ones that make the decisions.”

Very ballsy talk. It does pose the question though about what the Greens will do if Labour doesn’t agree to their “decisions”. Would they refuse supply and confidence?

Tags: Greens

This entry was posted on Sunday, February 19th, 2012 at 9:21 am and is filed under NZ Politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

39 Responses to “Green ambitions”

Neebone (28) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 9:37 am
Great 92% of voters might have rejected them but they will be the ones that make the decisions. Sadly under MMP that might just be true.
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TimG_Oz (835) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 9:47 am
The Greens are holding a conference in Palmerston North?

I don’t know who to feel more sorry for, the locals or the visitors!
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tvb (3,357) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 9:50 am
They can make the decisions 8% of the time surely they can see that is fair. In practice the Lead party either National or Labour lets the minor party lead on matters they have a special interest in. In practice the minor party is happy to be around when things are easy but when the hard stuff needs to be done they head for the hills, the Maori Party is one example.
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BeaB (1,638) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 9:50 am
“From the outset, we need to make it really explicit that we are the ones that make the decisions.”

It’s that totalitarian streak that will keep me voting for dear old Tories forever.

What a smug, patronising and deadly air of righteousness that woman has.
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virtualmark (1,359) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 10:04 am
So let me get this right. In the last election … when Labour had its worst results in decades, and the Greens their best … Labour still got two and half times the number of votes the Greens did.

But the Greens aren’t a “little sister” to Labour. And Wussell and Mad-teria are going to be the ones making the decisions?

Is it April 1 already?
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Manolo (10,202) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 10:09 am
I don’t know who to feel more sorry for, the locals or the visitors!

The poor locals will have to endure a weekend surrounded by Luddites.
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TimG_Oz (835) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 10:16 am
Manolo,

Yes, but the poor Luddites will have to endure a weekend surrounded by the locals!
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Seán (393) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 10:18 am
What we have seen when Labour and National have negotiated deals, the small parties have been the receivers of whatever the bigger parties want to dole out but not necessarily decision making,” Turei said.

Really? Find this a bit hard to believe. If a minor party is a coalition partner they tend to get a ministry, and this is a decision making position in it’s own right, no? That’s the point. Regarding in/out Cabinet, the limit of decision making usually reflects the % contribution the minor party, no-one in the electorate wants to see the tail wagging the dog and Green party would be wise to learn this.

National and Maori Party are probably a good example of appropriate and fair level of decision making for the minor party. Pre-2008 election many (including me) would never have thought the Maori Party would work with National. Yet in 2011, after 3 years in coalition with the right, the Maori Party are back in business, doing what’s best for their voters. This can only happen following a relationship based on mutual respect and fairness.

The Greens probably have good reason to fear a relationship with Labour though. We know how they operate (e.g. Clare Curran Red Alert post).
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Longknives (2,589) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 10:20 am
It has always intrigued me that this clearly batshit insane woman who claims to be an ‘Anarchist’ has aspirations to be part of a working government…and now she seems to want to call the shots in an elected government!
Does she even know what the term ‘Anarchist’ means? Or did she hear it in an old Sex Pistols song and think it sounded cool?
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Bill (19) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 10:22 am
Unfortunately, the tail does wag the dog, so Labour will agree to ANYTHING which will keep them in Power!
That’s MMP!
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wat dabney (2,764) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 10:53 am
Basically, the Green Party argument that “they don’t have a mandate” only applies to others, not to them.

Glad we got that sorted.
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Sofia (553) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 11:40 am
“…From the outset, we need to make it really explicit that we are the ones that make the decisions.”

That, by definition, IS Government.

‘Tuakana teina’ would appear to be term indicating a teaching relationship between an older experienced tutor and a student. Since Metiria Turei is using the term in a disparanging context perhaps she needs to find something more accurate than just trendy.
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adamsmith1922 (803) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 11:40 am
Typical Green arrogance, displaying their unfortunate predilection for dicatorship of the minority.
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reid (13,655) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 11:46 am
I find listening to any speech from either Gween leader a bit like listening to someone explaining how he is, in fact, Napoleon and if the Russian’s don’t improve their behaviour very soon indeed he might just teach them a thing or two.

It’s that mad, isn’t it.

The amusing thing is, the Gweens clearly see this boost for them as being part of a permanent shift in their support levels and they will in future become a super-heavyweight in Parliamentary circles and intend to act accordingly.

I wonder if their widdle hearts will snap literally in half when they learn next election that no, the Liarbore people who voted for them this time, still prefer Liarbore actually, thanks very much.

Ah well. Popcorn time. What else can anyone do except larf and larf.
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Pete George (17,897) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 11:52 am
Bill: the tail does wag the dog,

There’s scant ecidence of this.

Say wat?: the Green Party argument that “they don’t have a mandate” only applies to others, not to them.

Yes, they are right and everyone else is inferior. That will play well to the comrades. In their delusion. They have yet to experience the reality of being part of government. And they are yet to experience the electorate dealing to arrogant politicians.

A common Green comment in MMP discussions is that electorate MPs are obsolete and list MPs are the ones that matter. This would allow the Green Party to pick the constituency they want to pander to and ignore the rest as naturally undeserving of their version of democracy.
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Griff (5,115) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
The green vote is significant.
Most can see the New Zealand green party is Not green its socialist.
the arrogance of national thinking it actually represents all aspect of the right is astounding it may take a few election cycles but eventually there must be a splinter of the right along liberal and conservative factions.
All it needs is one contentious piece of legislation to act as a catalyst for a wide split to develop.
At present a vote for national is a vote for the center.
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Pete George (17,897) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 12:18 pm
The whole basis of Green Party Organisation:

The Green Party is the most democratic decision-making Political Party in New Zealand – our Party List is decided by a vote of all members.

Within maybe, but not for the unclean ungreen.

All votes are equal, but Green votes are more equal than others.

(The Greens may rate their social media warrior status, but they haven’t updated a lot of their website since the election).
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Paulus (1,755) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 12:35 pm
Token Greenpeace Maori Woman co-leader has spoken. Wonder what Dr Leader man thinks of her chances.
I look forward to the spat at the 2014 election when Labour do better than recently, the Greens are needed to prop up Labour to power, and Winston has the control.
Dr Leader has already said he wants Deputy PM and Finance. Winston will accept Foreign Affairs – he has had a few, but would accept Deputy PM (and Foreign Affairs). Sad that smoking no longer allowed on Commercial aircraft but he can take an Air Force one.
Token Maori Woman will get Maori Affairs and Social Welfare.
Wow going to be entertaining.
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Redbaiter (3,499) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 12:44 pm
Why not get everyone to pay for the service? I fail to see the justification for my taxation contribution being used to prop up a Marxist propaganda network and the mindless drones who seek to listen to their drivel.

I’m all for it. Let not only offshore users pay but also those onshore.

That John Key’s government and so called “right wing” bloggers like David Farrar believe it has a duty to run a “free” radio station shows how there is no real divison between right and left in NZ.

NZ is a Marxist sewer and that most people support the disgusting rort that is Radio NZ shows how deeply embedded Marxist thinking is today in the NZ psyche.

The watermelon is right, but for the completely wrong reasons.
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Peter (1,134) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
Holy wrong thread, batman!
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reid (13,655) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
Why not get everyone to pay for the service?

Why not leave it as-is. It’s not a huge burden on the taxpayer by comparison to what it gives to people all over the country by way of information and entertainment. Bang for buck it’s a lot better in every way than TVNZ is. In every way.

It’s a bit like the argument for not funding libraries as well. Sorry, but to me, some things should be state-funded, I don’t see why it’s a requirement of an efficient economy to dogmatically apply the user-pays model in every single known situation.
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Pete George (17,897) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
From one sort of cronyism to another.

National ‘cronyism at its worst

…while Ms Turei said the Greens were willing to work with National where they could, she then launched into an attack on National, saying it was “deliberately strangling the state and carving out services to the private sector to make money out of social issues”.

Trying to score political points out of social issues. Seems to be the current Green way. Slimy green.
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The Scorned (602) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
Well reid in that case lets not hear any hypocrisy from you about other instances of socialism then…..Which part of tax is theft of peoples property don’t you get comrade?
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East Wellington Superhero (1,151) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
The Greens are all talk. They’ll suck political cock when they need to. But they’ll spin it as “Labour really loves us, and respects our opinion; we got what we wanted”.
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reid (13,655) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 3:35 pm
Well reid in that case lets not hear any hypocrisy from you about other instances of socialism then

All I’m saying Scorned is there are horses for courses and in this case the value-add cost-benefit calculation stacks up, simple as that. If you ignore that then you are simply applying user-pays in an ideological not rational way and that makes one as bad as any ideologically-driven fanatic whether you’re a commie fanatic or a capitalist one.

The reason it stacks up is that notwithstanding the leftist slant, news is news and if you’re too fucking stupid to see through the propaganda and sift the facts from it you haven’t even graduated from kindergarten yet so you’re not qualified to have a say in the matter. Assuming you can sort it then its inarguable that the range and depth of content broadcast free to all homes except the very remotest IS value for money. It would not happen under user-pays because people won’t pay for what they don’t receive so I for example would pay only for Morning Report, Checkpoint and Monday Politics with Hooten et al, I wouldn’t pay for the Concert Program for example. Any commensurate tax cut we got if we made it so would be within a few years clawed back again meanwhile the decades nay generations old free service that previously educated generations of adults on a daily basis is now no more and never will be again since the whole organisation has disintegrated. If you think that’s simply market forces in action you’re overlooking the educational value payback into the economy that service provides in terms of informing everyone about everything ranging from the weather to detailed politics. If you think that’s worth nothing then what economic modelling are you using that says that?
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Ross12 (462) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 6:07 pm
The Greens have to learn that even under MMP , to make any further prgress they have to win a few electorate seats. Can’t see that happening any time soon. They also have to realise that most voters live outside the political bubble /MSM bubble in Wgt. As time goes on this year and the squabbling between the opposition parties for MSM space increases the real negative side of the Greens will come to the fore.
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mikenmild (6,863) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 6:22 pm
I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility for the Greens to take an electorate seat. They have not really fought for an electorate vote in some time. And they have won an electorate seat before.
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Fletch (4,405) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 6:29 pm
Slightly related…

I am just beginning to read, Confessions of a Greenpeace Dropout: The Making of a Sensible Environmentalist, by Patrick Moore, who was one of the Greenpeace founders, who goes on to describe how Greenpeace became taken over by extremists, at which point he left. The introduction to the book can be read free here – http://bit.ly/gve8rv

Some snippets –

In the early days we debated complex issues openly and often. It was a wonderful group to engage with in wide-ranging environmental policy discussions. The intellectual energy in the organization was infectious. We frequently disagreed about specific issues, yet our ultimate vision was largely shared. Importantly, we strove to be scientifically accurate. For years this had been the topic of many of our internal debates. I was the only Greenpeace activist with a PhD in ecology, and because I wouldn’t allow exaggeration beyond reason I quickly earned the nickname “Dr. Truth.” It wasn’t always meant as a compliment. Despite my efforts, the movement abandoned science and logic somewhere in the mid-1980s, just as society was adopting the more reasonable items on our environmental agenda.

[...]

The collapse of world communism and the fall of the Berlin Wall during the 1980s added to the trend toward extremism. The Cold War was over and the peace movement was largely disbanded. The peace movement had been mainly Western-based and anti-American in its leanings. Many of its members moved into the environmental movement, bringing with them their neo-Marxist, far-left agendas. To a considerable extent the environmental movement was hijacked by political and social activists who learned to use green language to cloak agendas that had more to do with anticapitalism and antiglobalization than with science or ecology. I remember visiting our Toronto office in 1985 and being surprised at how many of the new recruits were sporting army fatigues and red berets in support of the Sandinistas.

I don’t blame them for seizing the opportunity. There was a lot of power in our movement and they saw how it could be turned to serve their agendas of revolutionary change and class struggle. But I differed with them because they were extremists who confused the issues and the public about the nature of our environment and our place in it. To this day they use the word industry as if it were a swear word. The same goes for multinational, chemical, genetic, corporate, globalization, and a host of other perfectly useful terms. Their propaganda campaign is aimed at promoting an ideology that I believe would be extremely damaging to both civilization and the environment.

Go read the whole introduction. It’s very good.
The book on Amazon – http://amzn.to/AjPW5P
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big bruv (11,253) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 6:40 pm
The ever expanding female co leader of the Gweens is delusional if she thinks that this is not the high water mark for the Gweens.

Those of us who hate the Gweens more than Labour should be hoping that Labour can get it’s shit together this term, if Labour do manage to regain some support it will almost certainly come from the Gweens.

Our lazy and fucking useless MSM have a part to play in this as well, for far too long they have treated the Gweens as one might treat a puppy, lots of pats and plenty of cuddles, you don’t mind the odd indiscretion from your puppy and you tend to ignore it while praising it when it does as it is told.
The MSM need to shine a torch on these bastards, they must not be fobbed off with bland answers because the people of NZ need to know just how dangerous the Gweens are.

Make no mistake, a Labour government would not be great for NZ but a Gween led (or a govt that had a large Gween contingent) would be a fucking disaster for our nation, in one term the Gweens would turn us into a third world nation.
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mikenmild (6,863) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 6:47 pm
I think the correct spelling for green is G-R-E-E-N.
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Peter (1,134) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 7:38 pm
Gween
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toad (3,570) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 8:19 pm
@Bill 10:22 am

Unfortunately, the tail does wag the dog…

What Metiria is saying is that the Greens are not intending to be the “tail” any more. The Greens’ aspiration and strategy is to become a major party and rival National and Labour as a political force. And I think they are well on target to achieve that.

@big bruv 6:40 pm

And you were the one who predicted the Greens would drop below 5% and be out of parliament after the 2011 election. Instead, they got a record high level of support and now have 14 MPs. So much for your credibility as a pundit, bruv!
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Cactus Kate (517) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
The entire purpose of the Green Party is to provide proof that there is something worse than Labour.
The Greens.
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mikenmild (6,863) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 8:41 pm
That’ll do it – “the Greens are bad”. What an astute comment. Have you thought of starting your own blog to showcase stuff like that?
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big bruv (11,253) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 8:44 pm
Toad

How was I to know that Labour would self implode in the way they did?

Had the Labour vote held up you guys would have been gone, I was one right winger who wanted a strong Labour party because it would have meant that we could have said piss off to Moonbat Delahunty and not had to be blackmailed by Moonbat Mathers.

Anyway Toad, while I have you, what can you tell me what part the female co leader played in the vandalism of the National party billboards?

Also, how do you think the Gweens would hold up if the media every did decide to put the blowtorch on your uncosted and insane policies?
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marcw (125) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 9:27 pm
@Fletch 06:29pm

Thank you for that link – can I recommend that we all read this. I know that there is a bit of “green” in all NZers and I think that the Green Party are doing their best with their current attitude to ruin their potential to influence the implementation of policies which would benefit our country. This woman is truly “batshit crazy” and is doing so much harm to the Green enviromnent.
The bullet points that Patrick Moore makes at the end of his article should be required reading by all NZers.

PS. I believe the greatest threat to our planet is overpopulation – solve that and many of our worst problems will be manageable.
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reid (13,655) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 9:43 pm
The entire purpose of the Green Party is to provide proof that there is something worse than Labour.

You’ve been reading their mission statement haven’t you, Cactus.

They certainly do it very well don’t they. They’re like the Ferrari of the political world with respect to performance around that dimension.
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reid (13,655) Says:
February 19th, 2012 at 10:36 pm
I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility for the Greens to take an electorate seat. They have not really fought for an electorate vote in some time. And they have won an electorate seat before.

I think the universe operates against it, mm. I don’t think its possible for any single electorate to hold such a monstrous proportional concentration of complete and utter mentalness such to actually bring about an electorate seat. It worked a few decades ago without a space-time collapse, sure, but since those days the Gween’s mentalness has expanded ten-fold commensurate with their supporters. So you see the same concentration now, as it was back then, could possibly result in the end of the universe for they now exceed its warranted specs re: permitted mentalness per sq km by some magnitude.

And the Gweens say they weally care. You have to wonder, don’t you. You really have to wonder.
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Paulus (1,755) Says:
February 20th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
Election slogan 2014
Vote Labour Get Greens.
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Green ambitions

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