Leave Knox alone
The ODT reports:
Far from being elitist, Knox College traditions ensure students are welcomed into a supportive family atmosphere, past and present residents say.
The Presbyterian Church’s move to ban initiation ceremonies, scrap elitist symbols and tighten rules on alcohol, as reported in yesterday’s Otago Daily Times, has been opposed by many. …
Readers voiced their support of the institution and its long-standing practices in various letters to the editor yesterday.
A young woman returning to Knox for a second year said people developed a love for the place that could not be easily explained.
Another said Knox received more returning residents than any other university hall in New Zealand; testament to its vibrant and positive culture.
Former Knox student Michael Bridgen wrote about his “fresher” experience at Knox in 1994.
“Certain of the traditions were daunting, to a person from a country town new to so many people, but none were observed in other than good faith and good fun. In fact, in the spirit of colleges everywhere, many traditions evolved to the purpose of challenging and breaking down just those initial sheer faces of bashfulness.”
I went to Carrington Hall in Dunedin and loved my time there. People at Carrington regarded Knox as the second best hall 
Knox has a wonderful history and traditions, and the initiation ceremonies are a vital part of hall culture. They absolutely bond people together (sometimes literally ) and scrapping them would be the stupidest thing you can do.
“I have never found Knox to be anything other than welcoming, nurturing and supportive and cannot think of any justification for these changes,” recent resident Rebecca Gates said.
She said the traditions and rituals to be changed were the very things which attracted and united residents “no matter our schooling, social background, gender or race”.
“These common ties and experiences are what glues us together and draws almost all of the residents back for a second year.”
More than 1000 people have joined an online group established in defence of Knox traditions.
I hope common sense prevails. Knox is one of the most sought after halls in Dunedin (arguably the most sought after), and their sense of history and traditions are part of what attracts people to go there. It certainly isn’t their location – up that bloody hill!
February 17th, 2012 at 8:11 am
Next there will be someone campaigning to close down the Dblock Dungeons in Auckland Boys because the time honoured practice of ‘Rumble in the Dungeon” is elitist and has no place in an all boy’s school.
February 17th, 2012 at 8:15 am
The School of Hard Knox?
February 17th, 2012 at 8:19 am
Some of these initiation ceremonies are dreadful and should be scrapped or better still consider laying criminal charges against the perpetrators of some of the more disgusting practices. I am all for tightening up on alcohol abuse and would fully support a substantial increase in price. Only drunks would suffer hardship and the rest of us will be well rid of these social pests. There are moves in the UK in this direction.
February 17th, 2012 at 8:54 am
We Selwyn College types, circa 1987, regarded Knox College as being a little bit soft by comparision.
February 17th, 2012 at 9:00 am
Agree wholeheartedly it is complete and utter bullshit, I didn’t even go to Knox and I’m shocked, but even more so by the manner in which the university seems to interfering all in so manner things far further than its mandate, it has certainly got worse since Pro. Skegg stepped down as VC, what scares me is if this is the damage in less than a year under the american women now in charge imagine a full tenure!, As an alumni I was so pissed off I wrote to the Chancellor:
Dear Chancellor
I write to record my shock and dismay at the events taking place in respect of Knox College, though not a resident myself many of my friends were and being a former opoho resident Knox have always regarded Knox as something iconic.
Knox in my humble opinion stands for everything I (at least) believed the University stood for history, tradition and a desire for unparalleled excellence.
The sledgehammer – walnut approach taken in respect of Knox and allegedly endorsed by the university amounts to little more than utter cultural vandalism.
The Knox model of education is something we need more of not less, indeed it is what stands many top United Kingdom universities apart. I witnessed my younger sister’s excitement on being accepted to Knox this year, the understanding of tradition and the expectation of achievement. It saddens me to think that what she may end up now experiencing may be a shadow of what it truly means to be a “knoxie”.
The idea of curbing apparent of “elitism” through attacking dress codes among other things is plainly idiotic politically correct nonsense, is this the aspirational New Zealand we constantly hear the government talk of? If we cannot foster that aspiration in our center of learning what hope is there for the future? With the greatest respect it would appear elements of the University management are acting as little more than a malignant extension of the labour party or some other equally apt synonym for bland mediocrity.
I am a proud Otago graduate but cannot hide the concern I feel in respect the approach the University appears to be taking with Knox and other aspects of university culture,
I hope yourself and council will give the Knox issue urgent attention.
February 17th, 2012 at 9:01 am
I attended Otago in the early ’80s.
Knox residents were generally viewed as being a little odd. Selwyn was, until women were admitted, considered to be the centre of most of the debauchery.
February 17th, 2012 at 9:28 am
It’s intriguing that, in the 1990′s and early 2000′s, the University of Otago really pushed the Scarfie culture as a reason to come down and enroll there. It certainly provided me with some great memories and friends for life.
They now seem determined to stamp out every last vestige of this, with the overzealous Campus Police, the looming ban on drinking outdoors, (no more Hyde Street parties), and the closing down of the Gardies and the Bowler. Basically they want everyone now to be little study geeks and make sure you are safely tucked up in bed by 8.30.
As a former Knoxman, I’m pretty angry about what is happening. There is no need for it, and it seems to be be driven by ideology and adherence to a rather vague “health and safety” standard rather than any real major issues.
I’m going to send an email to VC Harlene Hayne about this, not that it will do much. I’d encourage others to do the same.
February 17th, 2012 at 9:47 am
As a former Otago student I do feel a little bit sorry for the current Otago students as it seems they are being stripped of their culture a little…The poor blighters don’t get to while away a sunny day sitting in the beer garden at the Gardies after an exam anymore, The Bowler is also gone and the Cook is a mere shadow of its former self.
Having said that, the idiots who have their annual riot/war with Emergency Services during the Undie 500 probably have a lot to answer for…that sort of crap didn’t happen in my day.
February 17th, 2012 at 10:15 am
I just looked at the site. $45,000 a year. 12:1 student faculty ratio (No Treasury report telling this school student/teacher ratio’s don’t matter) No wonder it’s so white (sorry, meant ‘good’).
This really is another illustration of how far out of touch the wealthy are with the every day experience of the vast majority. Would any one like to take a guess at how much the tax payer spends subsidising this elitist training camp?
[DPF: What the fuck are you on about? Knox does not cost $45,000 a year, and it is not a educational facility]
February 17th, 2012 at 10:18 am
rich prick and alex. we had the same view in the 1970′s.
February 17th, 2012 at 10:21 am
slightlyrightly@9am
I don’t think the “american ” VC is responsible at all.
This looks to be entirely internal Presbyterian stuff.
This is the original story from the ODT of wednesday.Strikes me as wowser,socialist bullshit actually.What’s wrong with elitism?Anyway they own it,theirs to do with it.
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/197806/rituals-scrapped-knox
February 17th, 2012 at 10:34 am
kowtow@10.21:
Agree. The de-scarfie-isation process began under Skegg around the mid 2000′s.
In terms of being elitist and white, well, when you enroll for an Otago Hall of Residence you choose your halls in order of personal preference. Knox was at the top of a lot of people’s lists and subsequently the competition for spots was high. They were able to take the best – high academic marks, good schools, presbyterian connection, sporting achievements, head prefects etc. Just the same as as most private and integrated high schools and colleges out there. These individuals tend to be white Caucasians from conservative backgrounds.
Anyone complaining about elitism probably is just jealous they aren’t elite.
Word is that Hayne has visions of some sort of ivy league institution at Otago. Maybe she should introduce fraternities and sororities…
February 17th, 2012 at 10:38 am
@ Yoza , none of the cost is going to change as a result of any of this
@ Kowtow, no doubt there are some wowsers on the Presbyterian commission delegated as well, however the main argument that commission is putting up is that the University is insisting the hall fall into line with its values, policy and health and safety rules in respect of colleges, and as part of that the elitism be curbed to make a “welcoming environment” which total bollocks because if anything through their grandparent system and other initiatives etc… it is probably more welcoming than any of the other halls put together, this is what happens when you let the useless seat warmers we as taxpayers subsidies for their mostly inane pratterlings come down from the ivory tower and form committees or maybe the “central committee” as it seems in this case
February 17th, 2012 at 10:51 am
Yoza, you are full of crap. I don’t know where you got those numbers from, but one years residence at Knox is $13110. When I was there a few years it was one of cheapest catered halls.
Knox doesn’t have underrepresentation of minority groups because Knox hates brown people, it has it because (as tempest said) NZ has a society where minorities make up a disproportionate percentage of lower socio-economic groups. This in turns leads to lower academic marks and less opportunities outside of school. This is the issue that we, as a society, need to work on. Getting mad at a really popular hall for choosing the high achievers is going to do exactly zero to empower minorities.
Finally, given the number of residents, the financial support of the alumni and the financial investments Knox has made in the past, I doubt that they have any need for tax payer money.
February 17th, 2012 at 11:00 am
@Yoza(67) I am not sure where you got that information on fees, but based on 2012 calculations Knox College fees are absolutely nowhere near as expensive as $45,000. Go to http://www.knoxcollege.ac.nz/?page_id=39 and have a look. Based on the information there, fees for Knox in 2012 are $13,186 and as a point of comparison, fees for Unicol (one of the larger, popular Halls on campus) have been calculated at $12,568.50 for the 2012 academic year (http://www.otago.ac.nz/unicol/documents/fees_application.html). As an ex-Knox resident myself, I can state with absolute certainty that Knox attracted people from all sorts of backgrounds with all sorts of interests – the common tie for everyone was not what school you went to/how wealthy you were, but the fact that you all lived together at Knox for 1 or 2 years. Its ludicrous that people make assumptions on the “types” that attend this College but clearly have not even bothered to look at the College’s website to verify these (wholly inaccurate) assumptions. For those who have shown concern over the actions taken by the Presbyterian Commisson, thank you very much for you support. There has been an online petition set up and I speak on behalf of current Knox residents, and the alumni when I say we would be so grateful if you could take 2 minutes to add your name to the growing list http://www.change.org/petitions/chairman-presbyterian-commission-consult-your-community.
February 17th, 2012 at 11:12 am
@ Yoza – you are seriously factually incorrect – the information you are spouting off is taken from the website of a liberal arts college in Galesburg, Illinois in the UNITED STATES. Treasury can’t tell this college student/teacher ratio’s don’t matter because it is in the UNITED STATES.
Knox College is also not a school so student teacher ratio’s are not relevent as there are no teachers.
The $45,000 you quote as being the fee for a year – Knox College (in Dunedin, New Zealand) costs (roughly) the same as any other residential college affiliated with Otago University (around $14,000 per year).
I don’t know what you are basing your comment “no wonder it’s so white” Knox has residents from a variety of ethnic backgrounds – Maori, Pacific Islanders, Asian
February 17th, 2012 at 11:19 am
Yoza, Knox College is not a school. Best you leave this one to the grown-ups mmkay.
February 17th, 2012 at 11:31 am
It saddens me to hear yet another case of disregarding the heritage of my former university. The governing body of our finest (IMO) educational establishment has clearly no respect for tradition.
I’m here the university is paying greatly inflated prices to buy up large numbers of Castle street flats, in attempt to ‘kill’ this notorious party street. I wondering how the current students feel about their fees going towards this?
I was a Carringtonian too DPF! First floor Jenkins!
February 17th, 2012 at 11:53 am
There’s a broader issue here about inclusive decision-making when something important is at stake that should matter to anyone, regardless of whether they went to Knox.
There’s a petition which you anyone join (and share) the petition here: http://www.change.org/petitions/chairman-presbyterian-commission-consult-your-community
February 17th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
Yoza you mong, you’re looking at the website of Knox College in Illinois.
February 17th, 2012 at 12:49 pm
Put it away (2,319) Says:
February 17th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
“Yoza you mong, you’re looking at the website of Knox College in Illinois.”
Yeah, it was smoko time and I read the first line of the article linked to by DPF: “Far from being elitist, Knox College traditions…”, then googled Knox College and got the site you’re talking about – launched a spiel then thought, “Shit, I better check that and discovered it was the Illinois site.
But, what a sneaky way to start an article, “”Far from being elitist,…” If that is not code for exckusive establishment institution, I don’t know what is.
February 17th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
@ Put it away – LOL!
February 17th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
I was at Carrington Hall 1981 TFS (Top Floor Stuart). We had a warden in those days called Stan Mair and he was an absolute scottish bastard.