General Debate 23 March 2012

March 23rd, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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89 Responses to “General Debate 23 March 2012”

  1. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    Another day and the union scum at POAL are still locked out.

    Oh well..at least that is one bright thing in an otherwise damp Auckland day.

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  2. mikenmild (8,798 comments) says:

    This story made me laugh out loud:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6624320/Egyptians-Greeks-came-to-New-Zealand-first-book

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  3. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    mm- obviously rubbish. We all know that humans have been in Australia for 40,000+years, but the humans first set foot in NZ less did so than 1000 years ago. Right?

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  4. Pete George (21,806 comments) says:

    Mikenmild – I want it to be the Celts who got here first. They should be able to trace thelinks through DNA.

    Did they discover and ancient Treaty of Caernarfon?

    Ancient Celtic boats and ships were built around a frame. Shipwrights constructed the wooden skeleton of a vessel first, and then attached the hull planking to that frame as a modern shipbuilder would.

    This Celtic technology is believed to have been lost before being reinvented in the Mediterranean in about AD1000.

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  5. Scott Chris (5,677 comments) says:

    Prominent Barrister Gary Gotlieb says NZ ‘kowtowing to US’ over Dotcom

    Justice Judith Potter also ordered the Crown to pay the internet mogul $5000 in legal costs after mucking up the paperwork behind the seizure of his assets.

    Barrister Gary Gotlieb said the decision reflected the fact that the Crown was too quick to bow to American pressures in this case.

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  6. flipper (3,269 comments) says:

    Oh dear, another day in “whingeville”……

    Contrast the TV ONE ‘s bleating coverage today over “the Government must do more to create jobs”; “how can beneficiaries get off a benefit when there are no jobs?” (W.English says 1000 a week unemployed are moving into employment), and the total absence of beneficiary and unemployment whinging on Australian TV (except for a little on ABC which has about 9% of the viewing audience).

    After six weeks viewing Australian news coverage on a daily basis it is clear that most of our economic problems are promoted/imagined by the negative NZ media.

    Time to get rid of the telly tubbies, the left wing producers and whinging news idiots that drive NZ news coverage.

    Oh, by the way. The Australian unemployment scene is not too flash

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  7. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    @big bruv 8:05 am

    How low can PoAL go? Engaging not just scabs, but illegals:

    Meanwhile, two British workers who arrived at Auckland Airport without work permits to advise on the ports dispute were refused entry last week and put on a flight home.

    Both men worked for Drake International and arrived to work on contract for Ports of Auckland.

    Drake New Zealand is one of two companies appointed by the port company on March 9 to hire contract workers for the port.

    You happy with that, bruv?

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  8. Put it away (2,888 comments) says:

    One time on Radio Pacific there was a loon story on the boil about “ancient stone buildings” discovered in nz, every crank was ringing up for a couple of days wittering on about greeks, phoenicians, celts, vikings, egyptians, martians, whatever. Finally they talked to an actual archaeologist who pointed out that the “structure” was a solid pile of rocks typically left behind when maoris cleared a field for planting and chucked the rocks in a heap

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  9. RightNow (6,338 comments) says:

    toad – that’s Drake’s doing, not PoAL.

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  10. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    toad:

    “scabs” is a truly horrible term, used by selfish and self-righteous pricks who expect everyone to act like sheep and meekly do what they’re told. When somebody is brave enough to say, “You know what? I disagree with what you’re doing. You feel free to go ahead and do it, but I’d rather do things my own way”, they get these horrible abusive labels and are roundly abused by the selfish morons who seem to think that their way is not just the best way, it’s the only way. “You vill obey and follow the party line!”

    It is out-dated. Stop lowering yourself.

    Re the illegals: I don’t see anywhere in the story that indicates the port company was aware they were illegals. The story you linked to clearly states that “Both men worked for Drake International“. So, on the face of it, Drake’s fault.

    C’mon, toad, you’re better than this. Using old, antiquated abusive terms and laying the blame for what looks like a stuff-up on Drake’s part at the feet of the port company?

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  11. kowtow (6,701 comments) says:

    Toulose

    One more “martyr” for the “religion of peace”.

    Seven more innocent victims.

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  12. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    Scabs….workers who actually want to work.

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  13. adze (1,695 comments) says:

    Toad, do you support abuse or intimidation of non-union workers?

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  14. Yvette (2,589 comments) says:

    A fresh probe into the ACC saga hinges on Auditor-General Lyn Provost, after Prime Minister John Key again rebuffed Opposition calls for an independent inquiry.
    A spokeswoman for Ms Provost yesterday confirmed letters requesting an inquiry had been received from Labour MP Andrew Little and Green MP Kevin Hague. She was considering her response overnight.

    After Winston Peters’ remarkably inept with Michael Laws yesterday morning on Radio Live, has Winston in fact followed the proper channels to request the ACC/ Pullar/Smith inquiry he wants, as have the two mentioned above, or was the radio publicity all he wanted – because that sure as hell didn’t do him any good.

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  15. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    Put it Away, actually there was a ‘stone city’ discovered in the Waipoa forest in the 1980s but has been embargoed (why?) until 2063.

    One organic gardening expert who surveyed Waipoua explained that certain stone arrangements are likely to have been heat traps. The volcanic boulders beneath each cairn would retain heat from the sun for extended periods, enabling a microclimate suitable for growing kumara, yams and gourds. Archaeo-astronomer Alan Seath from Australia was so impressed by what he saw at Waipoua that he felt the entirety of Waipoua Forest should be protected by UNESCO.

    Jill Johnston is another witness who has supplied some of the mind-boggling photos accompanying this article. Johnston says, “The big worry with this site is that it has already suffered years of abuse from cattle and now there is damage from the pine forests planted right throughout. Once logged, it will be basically gone, as the damage will be horrendous. This site is precious New Zealand heritage and it makes me feel sick to think that it isn’t protected and valued… Surely it has significant enough value for archaeologists to try and protect.”

    DOC has continued to take submissions regarding the future of the forest. Self-confessed sceptic Shaun Reilly, for example, ventured into the Stone City and was so moved by what he saw that he rushed back to the Northland Conservation Board and implored DOC to declare the Waipoua Stone City a UNESCO world heritage site

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  16. grumpy (226 comments) says:

    Fletch, are you joking? If what you say is true then the whole Maori as the first settlers thing is rubbish…..

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  17. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    By joves! You may be right, Grumpy. I never thought of that!

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  18. cows4me (248 comments) says:

    Fletch why do you think it’s embargoed, political dynamite. The people just can’t handle the truth ( some people ) especially those more then happy to keep history the way it is. I have mates that have deer hunted in the area and they claim the stone work is very impressive and resembles nothing else seen in NZ. Of course the area is off limits.

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  19. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    cows4me, yes there is so much stuff.
    Good article here in a series by magazine eLocal. http://bit.ly/yplOt6

    You can see photos at the top, one of a 14 tonne Greek calendar carved into stone, thousands of years old, and verified by a Greek University. The University said, “what’s this piece doing in New Zealand”?
    It was found by a pig hunter recently.

    Click on ‘Archives’ at the top to see articles featured in previous magazines.

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  20. Put it away (2,888 comments) says:

    This is not sparta. This is madness!

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  21. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    i wonder why they gang rape some of them before they murder them.

    http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/03/22/202385.html

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  22. Michael Mckee (1,091 comments) says:

    Bereal
    Remember they killed one of their most senior ministers last year as he was advocating for harsher terms against men who abuse women in Pakistan.

    It’s a joke that countries like Pakistan have a vote at the UN let alone on the UN Human Rights Council.
    Other worthy members have been Iran, Yemen, Saudi Arabia et al

    One could consider the UN relevant if member countries had their voting rights suspended for Human Rights Violations and only allowed when proven otherwise.
    That should of course apply to the security council too.

    edit
    It won’t happen of course as the UN is a haven for Tyrants, Despots and Dictators.

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  23. eszett (2,268 comments) says:

    So now the greeks are going to start lodging claims. Excellent.

    Does that mean we can be part of the Euro bailout? Is Feta cheese going to become more popular?
    And will we finally get a good greek restaurant in Auckland?

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  24. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    werent the chinese here first?

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  25. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    eszett ^^^ :D

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  26. David Garrett (5,131 comments) says:

    eszett: We are not exactly birds of a feather politically, but credit where it’s due old boy..

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  27. Lance (2,309 comments) says:

    @bereal
    That’s because they are murderous hypocritical pigs.
    Part of my journey was before I went to middle east I was kinda pro-Arab. Then I saw the reality first hand, the fucking stoneage misogynist vile philosophy these fucks practice. The girls on our overland trip (first middle east sojourn) had their tits grabbed even when ‘modestly dressed’ unless thy had one of the guys on the trip act like we were their husbands, even then you could see them looking for the wedding ring. One shithead flopped out his donger and started wanking in public at us.
    Then one travels to Israel and experiences a complete breath of fresh air, modern facilities, liberated women… indeed women soldiers who are…’friendly’ (there is nothing hotter than a girl with a machine gun). The contrast is beyond description.
    I became pro-Israel after that

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  28. Nostalgia-NZ (4,686 comments) says:

    Len Brown is reported as bringing in Alan Galbraith QC ‘to keep tabs on the legal moves in the bitter dispute on the wharves to protect the council’s 100% shareholding in the Port.’

    Taken into account that the Council own 100% of POA it’s hardly a ringing endorsement that Brown is confident that the ‘legal moves’ as described above are in fact lawful in terms of POAL, nor could it be confirmation of confidence in POAL management? The article in the Herald goes onto say that there is nothing stopping Len Brown from stepping into the dispute. Seems that Brown is stepping in by way of Galbraith’s appointment because he is concerned about the legality of the lockout, the now ‘frozen’ redundancies and directions from the Employment Court that are either being ignored by POAL or reconstructed on their own terms.

    Port chairman Richard Pearson got a little irritated with Michele Hewitson(?) in an interview last week when queried about his salary for 2 days work a week, somewhere in the vicinity of $200,000 a perfectly reasonable sum in his opinion because of his 35 years of experience. He didn’t give any detail of how many other disputes he’d been involved in which had seen unprecedented industrial strife, but I guess he was implying there had been a number when talking about his ‘experience.’ Richard said that he really wanted Michele to meet the true heroes, the non union workers presenting at least for me the lovely picture of ‘good’ workers and ‘bad’ workers – the good doing what they’re told, being compliant and doing what many might consider the ‘dirty’ work for their employer. Possibly Richard had intended that Michele might have been able to interview the two ‘worker’s who didn’t make through immigration and who the Ports had been obviously to put to work without permits.

    I look forward to Mr Galbraith discerning the best interests of the people of Auckland along with the legality or otherwise of the actions of the Managers of the people owned port, and his advice on the legal requirement to abide by the spirit and meaning of the Employment Courts recommendations or orders. But most of all a return to work.

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  29. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Discipline is discipline: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/22/us-marine-facebook-idUSBRE82L1BG20120322

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  30. WebWrat (516 comments) says:

    “Fletch, are you joking? If what you say is true then the whole Maori as the first settlers thing is rubbish…..”

    Exactly!
    What a blow to the T of W.

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  31. KevinH (1,128 comments) says:

    Dr Paul Moon comments on To the End Of Earth book:

    “However, AUT University professor Paul Moon said the authors lacked credibility as none of the writers had any qualifications in history, archaeology, anthropology or related disciplines.”

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  32. Paulus (2,296 comments) says:

    Maori DNA suggets that they came from tribes in the South East of Taiwan. So Winston really is Chinese.

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  33. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Good for you Lance. So many young ones seem to become pro Arab at Uni..In my day , a certain proportion all became pro Chinese at Uni ..I recall an old friend preaching to everyone out of Mao’s little red book. As slogans go , they were seriously awful.

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  34. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    I see that a guy called Gerald R. Molen: Steven Spielberg’s co-producer on Hollywood blockbusters such as “Schindler’s List,” “Jurassic Park” and “Minority Report”, is bringing out a new movie about Barrack Obama based on “The Roots of Obama’s Rage,” a book written by Dinesh D’Souza. The movie is called 2016, and is out soon.

    Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtv6XUT-hno&feature=player_embedded

    Site: http://2016themovie.com/

    The movie goes into what motivates Obama – particularly the anit-colonialism of his father, and how this translates to what Obama is trying to do to America.

    Just in time for the election, ey? :)

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  35. EverlastingFire (290 comments) says:

    KevinH – But has he read the book? You don’t need a piece of paper to tell you that you can study the subjects he mentioned.

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  36. Viking2 (10,715 comments) says:

    WebWrat (510) Says:
    March 23rd, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    “Fletch, are you joking? If what you say is true then the whole Maori as the first settlers thing is rubbish…..”

    Exactly!
    What a blow to the T of W.

    Absolutely nothing new about any of this stuff. Go to .http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3 and look back at some of the older forums. say 4 years or so and you will find plenty about this stuff.

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  37. Rick Rowling (776 comments) says:

    The Thought Police strike again (not me, I don’t post there, and rarely read it):

    IrishBill: I said put up, not puke up. Take a week off – I’ll not allow this site to be used to spread poal/slater smear lines.

    [lprent: Increased to 8 weeks. His comments over the last month have been pure idiot statement trolling - frequently duplicated from week to week and day to day.

    When he comes back if I see any trace of similar idiot level trolling then I'll ban him permanently.

    I've been meaning to go back and point out the comments that are just copies of each other. But I'm a bit busy. ]

    Wasn’t there a thread here the other day about which side of the political divide was less accepting of opposing views?

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  38. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    Fletch,

    I see that a guy called Gerald R. Molen: Steven Spielberg’s co-producer on Hollywood blockbusters such as “Schindler’s List,” “Jurassic Park” and “Minority Report”, is bringing out a new movie about Barrack Obama based on “The Roots of Obama’s Rage,” a book written by Dinesh D’Souza. The movie is called 2016, and is out soon.

    lol. An evangelical teams up with a mormon to make an anti-Obama movie.

    Expect it to appeal to conservatives who aren’t voting for him anyway, otherwise it’ll make a dent about as large as Atlas Shrugged Part 1, perhaps even smaller.

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  39. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    Weihana, at least it’s out there. Sarah Palin’s Alaska, and Undefeated got more viewing than Game Change. So it’s important to make these things.

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  40. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    Rick Rowling:

    Yeah, I (like you) no longer post there, and try to avoid going there because it is such a nasty site, with people posting who are incredibly bitter and vitriolic. I long ago decided that my mental health could be seriously impacted if I started frequenting that sad little neck of the blogosphere …

    … but very occasionally I just can’t help myself – it’s like seeing the flames leaping in the air from a multi-car pileup, and you know you should avoid the area, but be honest, you just can’t help yourself …

    … and this afternoon – wow. They’re going hysterical there. Especially IrishBill and lprent, thy’re going to have strokes if their collective blood pressure gets any higher.

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  41. Pete George (21,806 comments) says:

    It would be kinda interesting if it could be proven some Greeks came here yonks ago (or the Celts!). Maybe they can prove half of Maori DNA is Greek (but as Paulus said it’s supposed to point more to Taiwan).

    But, beyond being interesting, what of if they did? Even if Maori DNA was 99% Greek it wouldn’t change anything apart from a bit of history as we know it.

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  42. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Great preparation for later in life. Protect them, wrap them in cotton, just in case: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article4203460.ece

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  43. mikenmild (8,798 comments) says:

    I see Fletch is all keen on the Waipoua Forest nonsense AND anti-Obama conspiracy theories. Good stuff. Any thoughts on UFOs, Atlantis or the JFK assasination?

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  44. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    # Fletch (2,449) Says:
    March 23rd, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    Weihana, at least it’s out there. Sarah Palin’s Alaska, and Undefeated got more viewing than Game Change. So it’s important to make these things.

    Sarah Palin’s Alaska was a reality TV show and Undefeated gathered only 6 figures at the box office.


    The reporting on The Undefeated has been reminiscent of Atlas Shrugged: Part I, but Undefeated’s box office makes Atlas look like a blockbuster with its paltry $4.6 million run. Atlas followed a similar pattern: modest opening, then a big drop in its second weekend, despite an expansion. At least, there hasn’t been media gushing as notoriously wrong as when Fox News Channel’s Fox and Friends chatted up Atlas as a success after the movie had fallen off the map. (Though this latest puff piece comes close.)

    Ultimately, total gross and attendance are what matter, and The Undefeated’s too small to be of any consequence. Beyond the converted, why would anyone want to see this movie? Palin has been so plentiful in the media since 2008 that a documentary about her was, at best, redundant to the vast majority of people. And, certainly, an unabashedly pro-Palin documentary wasn’t going to preach beyond the choir. Proselytization is not a box office draw.

    http://boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3215&p=.htm

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  45. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    Weihana is terrified that people may be introduced to ideas he dislikes. But then he is an apologist for people who want to murder/torture new born babies, so he is probably scared that the sick and psycopathic nature of liberalism will be exposed.

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  46. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Lee01

    Did god tell you that when you were last talking to him?
    You know your bible pretty well god seems a little keen on the old smiting himself So its ok for god to wipe the whole world out except for one family but we can not kill the odd baby I see god has different rules in your books seem to change hos mind a lot to is that because he owns us or is it just a bad day at the office

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  47. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    Lee01,

    Introduced to ideas? 2016 will be preaching to the choir and little more. Though i’m sure Fox n Friends will talk it up as a big success and everyone else in the bubble will believe it was too.

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  48. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    with regard to muslim “honour killings”

    i wondered @ 11.07 as to why, even if you consider that your female relative has dishonoured you in some way
    and you come to the conclusion that she has to be killed in order that you can regain your ‘honour’ that you need to
    gang rape her before you murder her ?

    Why do you do that?
    How on earth are you able to get it up in order to rape your sister or daughter knowing that when you have finished she will be murdered ?

    Thanks for your comments, Michael Mckee and Lance.

    Is there any muslim reading this that can throw some light ?

    Maybe there is a muslim out there that can explain if this is maybe, just part of islamic etiquette or protocol.
    We have already seen, ‘honour killing’ in New Zealand comitted by imported muslims.

    Why on earth would we want to import more muslims into our country ?

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  49. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Honour killings are not a part of the religion of Islam, but rather a long-standing cultural practice in some parts of the world where Islam is predominant. Asking a Muslim to explain it would be like asking a Catholic to explain bull-fighting.

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  50. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Hey Ryan,
    wake up to yourself mate.

    Answer this.

    Of all the ‘honour killings’ that have been comitted in western countries, how many
    can be attributed to non muslims ?

    Therefore your puerile “point,” as usual, is ludicrous.

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  51. chiz (1,095 comments) says:

    Fletch:You can see photos at the top, one of a 14 tonne Greek calendar carved into stone, thousands of years old, and verified by a Greek University.

    Really? Which University was this and when did this happen? And what did they date – the boulder or the carving? I smell a rat.

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  52. Michael Mckee (1,091 comments) says:

    Bereal
    I’ve never understood as a liberal democratic country, that we allow people who have no interest in democracy or our lifestyle of freedom and liberty to move here.
    I would have thought that aspirant immigrants (refugee or not) would be grilled on their history and culture and religion.

    It’s not hard to research stuff and you don’t need a degree to pull it all together, it is almost as if the liberal left in their haste to deconstruct Judeo-Christian society allow anything as it is against that philosophy, value, creeds.
    It may well be mental condition, I’m not an expert but it seems so illogical.

    Ryan is partly correct in that it is about culture within some geographic areas but that is in part, mostly it is about women being chattels to men in Islamic culture.
    That is why legally and constitutionally they are valued as less than men, it is also why the mother gets screwed in Islamic divorce from the get go.

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  53. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    @Ryan

    “Honour killings are not a part of the religion of Islam, but rather a long-standing cultural practice in some parts of the world where Islam is predominant.”

    No it isn’t.
    It is an Islamic practice. Culture and religion are indistinguishable from each other in Islam.

    Islam is a complete way of life. It impacts every part of life, from eating and sleeping to working and playing. It is an all-encompassing ideology that has its own legal, moral, social, military, financial as well as religious codes.

    Afghanistan was Buddhist, Pakistan was Hindu and the whole Middle East was Christian. What has changed? The original culture of each of those countries has been replaced by the violent misogynistic culture of Islam.

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  54. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Michael Mckee

    I think the answer to why we permit & allow Muslim scum to settle here as an advance guard lies in two camps. One group (the classic liberals) says, “Look at those poor people & the way their women are treated. Let’s settle them here in NZ so our values rub of on to them”. Some religious groups, some political groups & various ragtag bleeding hearts come under this umbrella. They are the enablers.

    The second group are not so numerous but far more deadly. They are the committed socialists, the planners, who opine that societies must be destroyed in order to be saved. The vehicles to attain this goal are (but not limited to) unfettered immigration, AGW, civil war & generational welfare dependency.

    If you want to see the agenda rolled out watch what is happening in Britain & parts of Europe.

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  55. Leaping Jimmy (15,531 comments) says:

    Is this a good thing or not? (Not that its “news,” is it.)

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2115871/The-CIA-wants-spy-TV-Agency-director-says-net-connected-gadgets-transform-surveillance.html#ixzz1pQCkYYO8

    and on a completely different topic

    Afghanistan was Buddhist, Pakistan was Hindu and the whole Middle East was Christian. What has changed? The original culture of each of those countries has been replaced by the violent misogynistic culture of Islam.

    Lots of propaganda about Islam and lots of conflation and confusion in history about what the east really has contributed to civilisation vs what western history says it has. While one can’t possibly even scratch the surface of either complex and deep issue in a blog post, this free well-reputed e-book may help, in terms of clarifying the contribution of eastern civilisation to the west, which is not what it is portrayed as in the western media or the western education systems.

    Health warning: This may cause cognitive dissonance if you’re a braying moron from Montana who drives a pickup with a gun rack and really does think Fox truly is “fair and balanced.” If you’re not one of those you should be OK. Probably.

    http://www.revalvaatio.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/hobson-the_eastern_origins_of_western_civilisation.pdf

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  56. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Michael Mckee @ 5.47

    Your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. Yes mate, that is what you would think.
    That is what any right thinking person would think. But it doesn’t happen.

    And why is that not the case in New Zealand today ?
    i’ll tell you.

    Please don’t be sucked into thinking that the likes of a Ryan Sproull may be partly correct. They are not.

    These P.C. drongs, such as Ryan are usually the product of pseudo intellectual institutes and have been sucked in in the
    60s and 70s when they were students and had lecturers who dreamed of the brave new world but sadly had no practical understanding of reality. Maybe in the case of a drong like Ryan we are talking about his lecturer when he was a student.
    You only need to read the drivel that the likes of a Ryan Sproull serve up to see that he has no real idea.

    It is fashionable with these shitheads to decry the truths that have come from the collected wisdom of years
    of Judeo=Christian society. Why is that ?

    Well, you can ask a great intellect like, say Ryan Sproull.

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  57. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    nasska, I’d posit there’s a third group – possibly taken from the two you’ve identified. It’s the militant atheists resent western Judeo-Christian heritage so passionately that they regard ‘the enemy of my enemy as a friend’. Islam fits the bill quite nicely and is embraced.

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  58. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    nasska 6.27

    Well said.
    Simply put.
    Hard to argue with.

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  59. Put it away (2,888 comments) says:

    Here is the stuff that the loons talk of as “stone cities” and “structures” built by advanced civilisations. For fuck’s sake, do you really see anything here that would be beyond the abilities of maoris such that you must invoke Greeks or Eqyptians. It’s a rough heap of random rocks for chrissakes…
    http://www.celticnz.co.nz/waipoua_fs.html

    Occam’s razor anyone?

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  60. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    And further to that nasska.

    We the people are competing with with these sick idealogues who fashioned their crook opinions in their
    early 20s and then devoted their whole life to the cause to the exclusion of everything else.
    and because of their single minded dedication, rose, or are rising to influentual positions.

    Sort of like , say Helen Clark or Margaret Wilson who were prepared to deny their sexuality and lie and con
    in order to help promote what they thought was the better good.
    They cant now accept that they had it wrong.

    i do hand it to them for their dedication but i think that even now it starts to dawn on them that they were
    wrong.

    Imagine what do you do if you did all that and gave up everything for the just cause and then it began
    to dawn on you that you were wrong.

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  61. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    krazykiwi

    It is possible but I have doubts that the atheist brigade is as well organised as you give them credit for. Doubtlessly there are are a few who would harbour such hate but they would be at the extreme end of the scale. Most atheists I know are people who are unable to believe or have shunned the hypocrisy of the Christian church but most, having escaped the frying pan are not looking for the fire.

    If you are not of a religious bent it is easy to see all religion as power blocs not usually benefiting the true believers. Man is incapable of comprehending infinity or eternity…….along comes a sincere sort of soothsayer who says “Don’t worry about it…..believe in my version of the Great Sky Pilot & all will be well”. All is well until these harmless souls are organised into religions which are headed by arseholes who have no faith but seek power.

    It has happened to Christianity, Judaism, Islam & probably the Hindus are afflicted similarly.

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  62. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Bereal

    ……”Imagine what do you do if you did all that and gave up everything for the just cause and then it began
    to dawn on you that you were wrong.”……

    Spot on! They’ve left it too late to change & admit they are wrong. They would lose too much face & would go to their graves knowing that they have stuffed up rather than change course.

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  63. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    By the way,

    Leaping Jimmy,
    Why don’t you just fuck off Leaping Jimmy.
    You know you’d feel better.

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  64. Scott Chris (5,677 comments) says:

    Cor bllimey, what a hate fest.

    Muslims want what most humans want. Peace, security and freedom. But give ‘em a reason to hate, and the fuckers among them will. Just like you fuckers.

    Difference is, you fuckers should know better.

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  65. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Thats great Scott Chris

    Sadly, what a boofhead such as yourself fails to grasp is that muslims want, ‘Peace. security and freedom.’
    BUT
    as long as we all convert to islam.

    You effing idiot.

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  66. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    fuck off grot chris..muslims are shitbags…you will be one of the useful idiots..

    [DPF: No you are being the idiot. Do you actually know any Muslims? I've met scores and scores and the majority are normal nice people. Yes there is an extremist element, and yes it is a lot larger than in most religions. And yes there are aspects of Islam which make it difficult to modernise. But that is no excuse to make stupid generalisations about all Muslims]

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  67. Leaping Jimmy (15,531 comments) says:

    Leaping Jimmy,
    Why don’t you just fuck off Leaping Jimmy.

    Beryl, why don’t you fuck off?

    We’d feel better, even if you didn’t.

    Honestly, before you starting holding forth generally on KB over the last 6-12 months on your idiotic frankly mental opinions you were OK, not great, but… kinda OK. But now, FFS. What has happened Beryl? Too many ECT treatments? Something’s happened. You can tell us.

    Incidentally, first we had philu, then for awhile we had redbaiter, then we had philu again, now there are various pretenders but none quite so magnificent as those, but you’re approaching the first step toward the mountain of mentalness that would put you up to philu/RB stds beryl. So far you’re in the foothills but just thought you should know, cease and desist afore it’s too late, lest calamity befall and everyone point and laugh. And who wants that. (Well some of us might but not too many, I imagine. Only the nasty ones – the ones that giggle at schadenfreude and who would possibli do that here?)

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  68. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    “Muslims want what most humans want. Peace, security and freedom.”

    Correct, although the meaning of the words-concepts “peace” and “freedom” differs from what non-muslims understand to be peace and freedom.

    Islamic understanding of peace means submission or surrender. Peace comes (according to Islam) only after one surrenders or submits one’s self. Submission to Muhammad and his alter ego Allah. Therefore, peace exists only inside the Dar-ul-Islam—the house of submission, after all the non-Muslims’ have been converted to Islam.

    In Islam freedom is clearly defined and its limits and boundaries have been set by Allah (Mohammed) alone. He is All-Knowing of the condition of His creation and Knows best what their requirements are and what suits them. what was permissible in Islam fourteen hundred years ago remains so until the Day of Resurrection.
    http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=articles&id=143745

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  69. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Scott Chris

    Peace, security and freedom……. just what we say we want & just what they say they want. Let’s look for a solution.

    Peace marches, sit ins, candle vigils, reaching out (whatever that means) singing Kumbaya…….all been trialed & found wanting. There are two stumbling blocks & both are insurmountable.

    The West has leaders who are corrupted to the point of being puppets by the money that gets them elected. LJ has deep thoughts on this & I’m swinging further & further towards his arguments. The nations for which the Islamic faith represents the Alpha & the Omega of their existences are totally intransigent. Their religion rules every facet of their lives…..business, science, interpersonal relationships, warfare….everything. Every opinion or action has effectively been preordained by a creed that hasn’t changed since its inception 1400 years ago.

    There is essentially no middle ground to build a peaceful existence on.

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  70. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    “I’ve met scores and scores and the majority are normal nice people.”

    So why dont they stand up and tell the vocal violent nutjobs to pull their heads in ?

    Thats right …silence. They say nothing those wonderful normal nice muslims.

    That silence tells me they condone the violence otherwise surely, they would be vocal in their disgust.

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  71. kowtow (6,701 comments) says:

    Honour killings?
    Here’s something by toady Fisk. Note in his introduction there is the mandatory “they all do it” line. But then the story is almost exclusively about the adherents of the religion of peace and tolerance. He even has a poke at the indigenous Christians of Jordan, but no evidence is forthcoming.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-crimewave-that-shames-the-world-2072201.html

    The headline of the story should really be the Crimewave that shames the Muslim world.

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  72. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    @nasska
    Scott is a typical ethnocentrist.

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  73. Yvette (2,589 comments) says:

    ‘Sex’ didn’t mean what you think it meant, says Peters

    Hansard – Urgent Debates – Accident Compensation Corporation—Unintended Release of Client Details, 20 March 2012

    …That data that was leaked identified some as making sensitive claims for injuries, resulting from rape or other forms of sexual assault. So there it is: a scandal from within the Government, caused by the Government that holds itself up as being cleaner than the driven snow. It is always cleaner than driven snow. All its mates downtown in the commercial market know that is not true, of course, but it always poses as being that. It is a shabby little case involving blackmail, sex, and a Minister with a conflict of interest, and he should go now.

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/4/d/0/50HansD_20120320_00000016-Urgent-Debates-Accident-Compensation-Corporation.htm

    Whaleoil has Winston’s discussion yesterday with Michael Laws, Radio Live –
    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2012/03/michael-laws-vs-winston-peters/

    Evidence that Winston now is Parliment’s dinosaur – nasty, evasive, and a dinosaur

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  74. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Two Englishmen walking through the woods with a large Salmon
    under each arm when they met two Irishmen, Michael and Donal.
    “Hey there’s some wonderful salmon, where did you get them?”

    “Don’t tell anyone,” replied the Englishmen, “but we poached them
    out of the river.”

    “How did you do that?” asked Donal

    “Well, Fred here dangles over the bridge, I hang on to his legs
    and when the salmon leap out of the water on their way upstream,
    he just catches them.”

    “We’ll try that Michael me boy.” says Donal

    They get to the bridge and Donal hangs Michael over the edge of
    the bridge by his legs, after about twenty minutes Michael
    screams…

    “Quick pull me up, pull me up!”

    “Have you got a salmon?” asks Donal,

    “No,” replies Michael “but there’s a train coming.”

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  75. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Other_Andy

    Unfortunately you are right. The shame is that the bugger has a keen mind but fails often to see things through the eyes of other people.

    Any one who acts this way effectively forsakes the culture that nurtured him/her as the Islamists see such opinions as weaknesses to be exploited.

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  76. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Now, far be it from me to criticise mein host on this blog.

    But when you see total crap, what do you do. ?

    In the debate about sexuality you instinctivly know that when an advocate states,
    “some of my best friends are gay,” what comes after is bullshit.

    Same as when you see some puke like.
    “I’ve met scores and scores of nice people who were muslims.”
    Oh dear me. Dearie dearie me.
    Read again what you have said DPf

    What is it about the fundamental concept of islam that you must accept allah or die . That you fail to grasp.
    it’s your blog DPF but…………..
    If that is your king hit argument………….

    Offer up your throat to the muslim.

    See what he does.

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  77. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    ..DPF will be shakin his grooove thing at the ABBA concert…

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  78. Leaping Jimmy (15,531 comments) says:

    What is it about the fundamental concept of islam that you must accept allah or die . That you fail to grasp.

    What is about the FACT your hallucination about this is just that, as evidenced by the majority of Islamists who don’t want to kill us, don’t you understand?

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  79. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Church leaders have warned that the physical embodiment of the antichrist will bring war and devastation to our planet…does that mean the antimohammed will bring us peace and love?

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  80. Nostalgia-NZ (4,686 comments) says:

    nasska
    8.10

    A question below for nasska and bereal of course on the grave weight of paranoia.

    When you make comments such as ‘Islamists see such opinions as weaknesses to be exploited’ I presume you mean all Islamists (because you don’t say otherwise), recognising an unconditional mindset over various continents, countries with a single unifying culture, beliefs, class system, and so forth. Bloody funny, a bunch of automatons all keeping in touch for the single cause, How quaint.

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  81. Scott Hamilton (235 comments) says:

    I see that Fletch is still banging on about the conspiracy theories of Noel Hilliam, the retired Dargaville farmer who has claimed in his time to have discovered evidence for Spanish, Viking, Phoenician, Egyptian, Greek, and – yes – extraterrestrial settlement of New Zealand. Good old Noel also discovered a Nazi submarine filled with gold off the Northland coast a few years ago, but then forgot where it was, and has falsely claimed to have received the Senior New Zealander of the Year Award. He’s a serial fantasist, and the willingness of the mass media to recycle his claims, albeit nowadays with rebuttals from experts, is rather peculiar. Here’s the last farce Hilliam was involved in:
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2010/03/heads-in-sand-in-dargaville-as-claims.html

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  82. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Now, can sum wun please tell us what Nostalgia-NZ was trying to say at 10.37

    it must have made sense to sum wun.

    Nostalgia-NZ herself would be keen to hear what the fuck he thought she was trying to say.

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  83. Michael Mckee (1,091 comments) says:

    Bereal
    Even academia tells us that Muslims everywhere pray for sharia where they are, no matter how nice they are.
    We are the unbelievers and they are doing us a favor, even though their prophet said they shouldn’t,t be friends with us.
    sharia law shows us the real heart of muhamadism now marketed as Islam.
    All Muslims desire sharia as life under sharia is the perfect life as muhamed is viewed as the perfect Muslim to aspire too.
    Most posters here are reasonably educated so I just can’t understand how they can say what they do and not acknowledge this.
    I’ve known dozens of nice Muslims but when I ask them why they want sharia knowing what that means to you and me as non Muslims they always say oh that could never happen here.
    But when I ask them what happens when Muslims have more than 50 per cent they say that’s democracy isn’t it.
    Sharia is wicked and evil and until we all acknowledge that speak up we are essentially dhimmis to their dawa.

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  84. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Nostalgia-NZ

    You are missing the point that although Muslims are the citizens of many countries, by & large they are nations which are exclusively followers of Islam. Think Iran or Pakistan. Separate governance between nations, agreed, but all are overtly or covertly theocracies where the Imams call the shots.

    Additionally as I suggested before, Islam permeates every part of Muslim life. Law, banking, marriage, property law…the works. This is Islam whether in Turkey, Saudi Arabia or Indonesia. There are small differences on a regional & racial basis but any problem where ever it occurs will be assessed & acted upon in an Islamic fashion.

    Therefore it is not unreasonable to generalise & discuss a pan Islamic reaction to most situations.

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  85. David Garrett (5,131 comments) says:

    Michael McKee: that is by far the best post on this subject I have ever seen. You are obviously far more knowledgeable than I am on this, but what you have said accords with my understanding.

    It’s actually bloody frightening, and the leftie fools just don’t see it. Well done sir. And if you are posting under your own name and that is not a pseud, doubly well done.

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  86. mikenmild (8,798 comments) says:

    There is such a strong strain of fantasy among the islamaphobes of Kiwiblog. What they don’t understand; they fear, and they actually seem quite proud of their ignorance.

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  87. Nostalgia-NZ (4,686 comments) says:

    nasska
    11.29

    Well, I’m glad you made some qualifications because it’s impossible for me to accept that literally millions of people have core beliefs from which they react to with a common, strict adherence. Because it’s somewhat an obsessive subject on here, a danger is introduced when broad generalities arise that aren’t tempered by qualifications, and those broad generalities become accepted, entrenched and finally defended at all costs and those to me are reactions from a closed mind or minds saying as much about the defenders as those whom are ‘defended’ against.

    It’s always better to go into the other camp if the opportunity presents itself, nothing like being on the ground among those virtually unknown to you apart from stereotype. I recall the thread about the pow nz airman a couple of weeks ago, and his message to the Luftwaffe that saved those under his command from execution. One argument was that the Luftwaffe interceded because of fears for their own pilots and air crews shot down but it obviously may have been more than that even though they were at war with one another and presumably shared the same mindset of hostility and death toward one another.

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  88. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Hey Ryan,
    wake up to yourself mate.

    Answer this.

    Of all the ‘honour killings’ that have been comitted in western countries, how many
    can be attributed to non muslims ?

    Bereal,

    If I’m right about Islam being the predominant religion in countries where the practice (which pre-dates Islam) is common, not many. One expert suggests two-thirds are by Muslims, the rest by Sikhs, Hindus and Eastern Europeans.

    The fact that most of the countries where honour killings occur are predominantly Islamic does not mean that Islam causes honour killings. You might as well say we should bring lots of Muslims to New Zealand to raise our chances of finding oil reserves.

    The most populous Muslim country in the world is Indonesia. 204 million Muslims, and how many honour killings occur there? If you were correct that Islam causes honour killings, there should be plenty. Instead, there are practically none. Why? Because it’s not part of the cultural practices that pre-date Islam there, while in some Middle Eastern countries it is.

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  89. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull

    The Koran allows honour killings & encourages adherents to treat women as second class citizens. This is not my personal opinion……it is written plainly for all who wish to see it.

    The key to whether such behaviour is carried out, as opposed to merely sanctioned, is whether the country permits Shariah courts & Shariah justice. In Indonesia only the Aceh province adheres to the strict precepts of Shariah law.

    Once this wretched system gains acceptance watch for a procession of “honour” killings & cruelty to women.

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