General Debate 8 March 2012

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Brian Smaller

Did anyone else seee this sob story. For Fuck’s Sake!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6541422/Family-is-reduced-to-living-in-a-garage

This woman is a thief who stole services from the rest of us to the tune of $4500 (and remember they get mega cheap rent), damaged property she had rented and left it filthy and there was a cost to remove rubbush. And she wants the state to provide for her again. Fuck her. A garage is too good for her.
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March 8, 2012 8:20am
Longknives

I wonder when the Auckland Racing Club are going to realise that efforts to turn the Auckland Cup into NZ’s own ‘Melbourne Cup- the race that stops a nation’ have failed miserably?
95% of Kiwis wouldn’t have even known or cared the ‘Big Race’ was running yesterday…(In contrast to the Melbourne Cup which is always a massive occasion)
Why the hell don’t they put the major races back to Boxing/New Years day like the good old days? They were guaranteed massive crowds (what else did you do on Boxing Day/New Years Day?) and had real atmosphere.
Yesterday in the drizzle at Ellerslie the stands were empty and the only people on track were the sponsors, owners and a few deluded ‘C list’ Auckland celebrities trying desperatley to get into the society pages by wearing a silly hat.
This once great sporting event deserves better..
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March 8, 2012 8:25am
wreck1080

I wonder if Auckland is is a middle of a property price boom.

See this house which sold for 2.6 million, a whopping 900k over valuation….

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10790549

I’ve got friends that live in a very nastily built house (with plastic weather boards), tiny half subdivided site, not a particularly special street, and, their landlords have put it on the market for 1 million.

The only reason price rises are not being reflected in the stats is due to huge listing shortages.
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March 8, 2012 8:29am
joana

Who in the min of health employed the two english doctors on a combined ticket of about one million dollars? Whose bright idea was this? So they have come here to sack nurses..Surely we had someone in NZ capable of sacking nurses..One of these codgers already failed in theUK.
What is this ? Why have we gone back to the 1950s? England cut NZ lose decades ago…We owe England zilch.
What a gross waste of tax payers money?
Were these jobs advertised in NZ?
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March 8, 2012 8:37am
Sam Hill

http://www.newswire.co.nz/2012/03/harawira-declares-war-on-corporate-takeover/

An interesting piece..
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March 8, 2012 8:53am
kowtow

joana,

What’s wrong with the English? Most NZers are descended from an Englander.
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March 8, 2012 8:54am
rouppe

Can anyone tell me, rather than restoring the graves desecrated in Libya, why don’t we bring the remains back to NZ and bury them here? I can’t imagine that it would be that much more expensive than what they’re planning.
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March 8, 2012 9:12am
db..

Hey Griff, Read this if you dare, comprehend it if you can.

[http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/03/07/the-cold-kiwi-comes-home-to-roost/]

db..
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March 8, 2012 9:17am
joana

Kowtow,
Not me mate and not many of my friends and relations. They are arrogant for a start..Many who come here just never know when to stop talking..but my point was about the gross waste of taxpayers money..services and jobs are being slashed everywhere so why bring these codgers here at such a cost or at all?? It does not make any sense..It is also very cowardly. If Ryall wants to sack nurses why doesn’t he just man up and sack them himself? Why the extra burden on the taxpayer? It does not make any economic sense.
Also from time to time we are lead to believe by immigration officials that NZers should get first dibs at jobs..Anyone could sack nurses..No great skill involved.
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March 8, 2012 9:17am
Longknives

“England cut NZ lose decades ago” “We owe England zilch” “They are arrogant for a start..” etc etc

I’d beg to differ- Perhaps Joana should study some New Zealand History before she goes off on a deranged xenophobic rant…

By the way- why can seemingly nobody differentiate between ‘loose’ and ‘lose’ anymore??
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March 8, 2012 9:27am
Put it away

Brian – they live like animals so a garage is about right. Or maybe a kennel? Take the kids off her if there’s any hope for them.
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March 8, 2012 9:30am
Pete George

Sam Hill – very interesting.

Occupying properties, disrupting businesses, blocking motorways and closing off intersections during peak traffic are just some of the strategies Mr Harawira endorsed at a Mana meeting in Wellington’s Newtown last night.

Is that the sort of thing an MP should be promoting?

Mr Harawira said he intends to use all the resources available to him as a Member of Parliament to travel up and down the country, holding meetings, giving speeches and taking action to mobilise support for his cause.

So he’ll use his parliamentary perks to actively oppose parliamenatry process?

Towards the end of the evening a heated exchange took place between Mr Harawira and Wellington political journalist Gordon Campbell.

Mr Campbell suggested that the political controversy and legal restrictions on investment could force down the price of the privatised assets, resulting in them being sold for less than their actual value.

Mr Campbell, who is strongly opposed to asset sales, was subjected to a barrage of swear words by Mr Harawira.

The Mana Party leader angrily declared that he fully intended to destroy the price by any means at his disposal, whether for overseas or New Zealand investors.

So he’d like to severely devalue government assets that he is supposed to be a representative of.

I’m really bemused at why a few people are so strongly opposed to partial sales. Wouldn’t Harawira be better working for employment in his electorate, for his constituents? Or maybe they don’t really matter to him in his whole scheming of things.

Harawira seems too entrenched in fighting against, rather than working for.
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March 8, 2012 9:31am
dime

wreck – i think prices have jumped in the last couple of months. ive been looking for a while. not quite ready to pounce though. doh.
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March 8, 2012 9:33am
Pete George

By the way- why can seemingly nobody differentiate between ‘loose’ and ‘lose’ anymore??

Too many loosers spelling losely.
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March 8, 2012 9:36am
labours a joke

Hone Harawira…a legend in his own mind..
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March 8, 2012 9:55am
labours a joke

More on ir Asia departing CHC

Penalty-looms-for-airline-if-it-quits
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March 8, 2012 10:02am
Put it away

Never mind the will of the voters, john hatfield knows best.
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March 8, 2012 10:03am
labours a joke

..that didnt work..d’oh
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March 8, 2012 10:04am
iMP

MAU GAY MARRIAGE.
The hoary ol chesnut of gay marriage is big in the UK just now. In NZ, if Alison Mau is to ‘tie the knot’
with her partner but we don’t have legal “gay marriage” in this country, how then are they getting “married,”
are “engaged” and have a “fiance” as reported by our mainstream media????

I would also like to ask: if we are to legally change the moral, social, cultural and legal definitions of “Marriage”
to be also “One Man and a Man” or “One Woman and a Woman” can we at the same time change the meaning of
“Gay” to “One Man and One Woman”. Would seem only fair.
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March 8, 2012 10:26am
Viking2

Viking2 (6,319) Says:
March 8th, 2012 at 7:04 am

More crap fromthe MSM.
This baby factory, with an automatic means of child production,(no father or partner or husband evident, bnenefit sucking fraud), owes HNZ $4500 and cries and whinges to the media when no one will rent her somewhere to live.
The stupid fucking taxpayer who masquerades as a JOURNALIST then makes a splash on her behalf and corners HNZ into making an apology and rinning round after the scum.

HNZ should tell her to get stuffed. (Phil, you are a nice guy but grow some balls).
The JOURNA;IST should stop and think about the taxes they pay to supportthis kind of leach and then stop writing shit unless they are prepared to donate their own income.

Family is reduced to living in a garage
LOUISE RISK
Last updated 05:00 08/03/2012

When Miss Hiroti had to move out of accommodation with family north of Huntly she initially approached several rental agencies, but was turned down due to her losing a Tenancy Tribunal hearing to pay $4500 for outstanding rent, rubbish removal and damage to a Porirua state house.

Family living in garage
BEN CURRAN/Fairfax NZ

HOMELESS: Lori Hiroti sits on the bed she shares with her daughter Arreis-Jayde, 4, while her sons Hoani-Puru, 3, and Temorehu, 9, sit on the bed they share.

Lori Hiroti, 27, and her three children, Temorehu, 9, Arreis-Jayde, 4, and Hoani-Puru, 3, have been living in their aunt’s state home garage for the past month after accommodation with family north of Huntly became unavailable.

Miss Hiroti has outstanding Housing NZ debt which she was paying off regularly, but she said with three children living in a garage, she felt Hamilton’s Housing NZ staff should have taken her situation more seriously, and helped her rather than “being patronising”.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6541422/Family-is-reduced-to-living-in-a-garage
Viking2 (6,319) Says:
March 8th, 2012 at 7:08 am

Given that this benescum is probably a Morgan Realtive maybe she could ask Tuku and his clan to front up instead of wasting the tribes money fighting in court and various other modern day initiatives.

Can someone point out to the stupid bloody jpourno that he pays tax to support this scum.
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March 8, 2012 10:27am
graham

@Put it away:

Exactly. In fact, never mind the will of ANYBODY ELSE, Hone Harawira knows best. We’ve seen this even with other Maori – Hone Harawira feels that he knows best, and his views are best for Maori; therefore, if ANYBODY ELSE disagrees with him – even other Maori – they’re wrong, and he’s right. End of discussion.
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March 8, 2012 10:43am
graham

Oh dear – here he goes – back into classic Harawira threatening talk:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6542948/Hone-Harawira-to-foreign-investors-steer-clear

Mana Party leader Hone Harawira has written an open letter to overseas investors wanting to buy shares in New Zealand state-owned enterprises (SOEs), warning them to steer clear or be caught up in legal battles.

“… today I think it only proper to send a warning to overseas investors – steer clear of any share offer in the above SOEs. The purchase of these shares is likely to see you caught up in legal battles and direct action from citizens determined to protect their own interests, both of which will be lengthy and costly and have an adverse impact on the value of your investment … You have been warned.”

Read the whole article – typically, Harawira “knows” that the plan is opposed by a majority of New Zealanders, and goes on to talk about what “the Maori view is.” In other words, what he wants is what ALL MAORI want …

Unbelieveable bully-boy tactics …
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March 8, 2012 10:52am
iMP

Loose and lose? whaddabout “complement” and “compliment,” “you’re,” “your” and “you are.”
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March 8, 2012 10:54am
Griff

db
Still into alt.science I see. This is no news
In August 2010, the Coalition announced it had commenced legal action against the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research, asking the High Court to invalidate its official temperature record, to prevent it using the temperature record when advising Government and to require the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research to produce a “full and accurate” temperature record.

They have set up a separate trust to do so to avoid the inevitable costs going against them.

Have you actually read the reply by National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research?
it gives logical reasons to modify temperature readings when weather stations are moved
Mostly due to the effect of changing the altitude of the instrument.

A Watts has tried this tactic repeatedly .
He was totally refuted by the work of the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature .BEST.
home http://berkeleyearth.org/
BEST’s new Independent study and the previous temperature graphs http://berkeleyearth.org/images/surface-temperature-anomaly-comparison.jpg

He even gets a special mention for being full of bovine excrement. 😆
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March 8, 2012 10:59am
iMP

And when will TV journalists incl Sainsbury please please please STOP saying “Look” as a preface to everything. It’s worse than “Absolutely” as a suffix to everything!!! GGRRRR.
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March 8, 2012 11:02am
db..

@ Giff,

…”Mostly due to the effect of changing the altitude of the instrument.”

It’s not altitude of the instruments, it’s attitude of the ‘scientist’. cf. Salinger in this case.

db..
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March 8, 2012 11:42am
tom hunter

I forgot to keep updating on Greek bonds – the one year babies are now “trading” at 1114%.

It hit 1000% a few days ago – about one week later than I had expected. Basically this means that people are still expecting Greece to default within the year, which rather puts the recent solution in a clearer light.

That’s assuming the deal does not fall through anyway, which it still could as it appears there is a group of private-sector bondholders who are not willing to take a giant haircut by swapping old debt for new debt. The theory is that they’ll simply get screwed over by 75% of the other bondholders taking the deal or the Greek government invoking the Collective Action Clause (CAC) in the event that the 75% threshold of agreement is not reached. However, it appears there may be some legal remedies outside the control of the Greek or Euro governments, that might enable some bomdholders to stall the whole process. Time will tell – like the next 48 hours.
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March 8, 2012 11:52am
3-coil

rouppe (9:12 am)
“Can anyone tell me, rather than restoring the graves desecrated in Libya, why don’t we bring the remains back to NZ and bury them here? I can’t imagine that it would be that much more expensive than what they’re planning”

Excellent idea!

And we could deduct the costs from any NZ contributions we make towards any UN projects that pay out to Libya. The cretins who defaced these graves will never be punished by any Libyan govt – they were apparently protesting against the Koran burnings last month, so they will have widespread support in a Muslim country.
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March 8, 2012 11:59am
mikenmild

I can’t see NZ remains being repatriated. There are just too many scattered around the world and by and large the graves are excellently maintained by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.
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March 8, 2012 12:07pm
KevinH

@rouppe & 3-coil
I agree, excellent idea, bring our boys home where they can accorded the honour they so richly deserve. In addition to that I pity the low life cowardly scum who took ak47’s into a cemetry to desecrate graves, how would the muslim brotherhood feel if the same occurred here.
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March 8, 2012 12:12pm
calendar girl

iMP @ 10.26

It’s not marriage, it’s a legally-recognised civil union. The terms used in the Mau publicity (‘tie the knot’, ‘engaged’, ‘fiance’, etc) usurp the language of marriage as we know it, trying to equate a civil union with a legal marriage / wedding. That has always been an agenda of those who promoted the civil union legislation, but former PM Helen Clark recognised that the NZ electorate would not allow her to legalise marriage between members of the same gender.

Both marriage and civil unions have their (separate) governing legislation. Each creates a union between two people that is recognised in law. All of that is fine by me, and I would do nothing to disturb the (now) status quo. But I do not welcome the attempts of media and so-called celebrities to twist traditional language relating marriage to make a civil union appear to be an identical legal relationship. It is similar, of course, but not identical.
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March 8, 2012 12:12pm
kowtow

bought instead of brought.

And even worse people are starting to drop the “r’ when they sat broadband,so it becomes boadband. FFS.

roupe

Here’s a piece from the UK Telegraph on the war graves that might help answer your question.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9123782/Benghazi-even-now-the-fallen-are-not-safe.html
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March 8, 2012 12:20pm
Scott Chris

can we at the same time change the meaning of “Gay” to “One Man and One Woman”.

Doesn’t have to be changed. One man and one woman can be described as “Gay”.

Why you think your ideology has the ownership rights of marriage is beyond me. Marriage predates Jesus.
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March 8, 2012 12:30pm
mikenmild

kowtow
That was a good article. I did wonder at this comment though:
“These soldiers have sacrificed everything for these people, and if they don’t appreciate what they have been given by the men lying in their soil, then we should find the money to bring them back home.”
I’m not sure many would agree that the Commonwealth war dead in Libya died for the freedom of Libya.
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March 8, 2012 12:38pm
Chuck Bird

Did anyone else hear the brief news clip of Cullen referring to Simon Bridges permanent suntan? He apologised and said he was unaware of Bridges Maori heritage. How many people who follow politics on the blog were unaware of Bridges Maori heritage. I find it hard to believe that Cullen was unaware.

In any case is it appropriate for someone who aspires to be PM comment about someones personal appearance?
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March 8, 2012 12:40pm
Lee01

“Marriage predates Jesus.”

Jesus, being God in the flesh, predates creation itself. So your point is wrong. The only person who has ownership rights over the definition of marriage is God.
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March 8, 2012 12:41pm
Chuck Bird

Correction – I meant David Cunliffe not Cullen – My apologies to Michael Cullen.
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March 8, 2012 12:57pm
iMP

re “Marriage.” Of course people have been together since creation, and marriage is a universal truth created in different cultural ways. But the “Marriage” we are talking about (Western, NZ, 21st century) is a legal entity based on the Judeo-Christian culture, so it is a church institution, ie “Holy Matrimony” and existed before “secular” even existed as a conecpt. The law in NZ has simply adopted this institution within its own embrace.
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March 8, 2012 12:59pm
kowtow

mm

The Commonwealth defeat of Italy ( the colonial master of Libya) led to the eventual independence of Libya.So his view is valid.
The Allies were the United Nations and the Atlantic Charter covers these issues agreed between Churchill and Roosevelt in August 1941….. self determination etc
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March 8, 2012 1:13pm
krazykiwi

tom @11:52. The Greek situation is definiately hotting up. I expect the rating agencies to chime in pretty early tomorrow NZ time.

Creditors have until 8pm GMT on Thursday to agree to a €206bn bond restructuring – the biggest ever attempted. A total of 95pc of bondholders must accept the deal – agreeing to take losses of about 75pc – for it to count as “voluntary”.

Analysts said the hurdle is too high and Greece will have to resort to so-called Collective Action Clauses (CACs) to push though the deal. Athens has said it will activate the CACs, which will impose the deal on all bondholders, if between 66pc and 95pc accept the terms. Credit rating agencies have warned that the coercive nature of the CACs will constitute a default.

Say hello to the new Dracma. Once the dust settles (and assuming it does) Greece will be a very, very cheap holiday destination.
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March 8, 2012 1:18pm
tom hunter

Credit rating agencies have warned that the coercive nature of the CACs will constitute a default.

This is just one of the things that has always amazed me about the whole debacle; the Alice-In-Wonderland quality of the language.

To whit: if you’re a bondholder who is about to lose 75% of the value of your investment it is a default for all practical purposes, irrespective of whether you “volunteered” for it or had it jammed down your throat. So why would the latter action be the one that causes credit rating agencies to declare it an official default? It seems to me that it’s both or neither.

Like everything else it comes down to politics; there’s probably some unofficial pressure being bought to bear on the rating agencies not to trash something that looks like an agreement between the parties, thereby preserving the rest of the facade that it can all be worked out. And perhaps the rating agencies threats are their official “out” to retain some form of credibility, which still has not recovered from their 2008 US.

Actual facts on the ground like 1000% bonds, an economy shrinking by many percent per year for five consecutive years, and a banking system with outflows of tens of billions of Euros into foreign accounts, are the reality – and they describe default.
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March 8, 2012 1:58pm
Ed Snack

Anyone else notice the Jennifer Curtin article in La Herald today ? Claims on the strength of a few “Ditch the Witch” placards and some rarking up by talk show hosts that “No other Australian Prime Minister has been subject to such vitriolic and personal criticism”.

Which makes me wonder, where the hell was she while Howard was PM, the criticism of Gillard isn’t even a patch of what Howard had to endure, and she’s never had the death wish fantasies that Howard had directed at him either. And even today Tony Abbott seems to be far more personally attacked than Gillard, and criticized for “masculine” things such as wearing speedos, and for being a catholic. She goes on to say “Male leaders face criticism, but it is seldom as personal – or as gendered”. More crap, if you go world wide look at the criticism directed at Bush, Blair, Sarkozy, amongst others.

What she entirely ignores is that it is far more a right/left divide in the personal and vitriolic nature. So Sarah Palin (not of course mentioned by Curtin, she probably thinks she deserves what she gets) can be showered with almost any combination of grossly obscene comments, and of course her children get the same, and yet that treatment is acceptable because she’s “of the right”. Similarly Thatcher is far more publicly hated and villified than Gillard or Clarke or other leaders perceived as “left”.

Curtin goes on to write up Gillard, entirely ignoring the reason for most of the criticism, that she seems unable to tell the truth much of the time and has proved a near disaster as PM.

I see that Curtin “teaches politics and public policy at the University of Auckland”. Oh, an academic, prima facie grounds I suppose for assuming that her contact with the real world is fleeting at best.
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March 8, 2012 2:26pm
tom hunter

Anyone else notice the Jennifer Curtin article in La Herald today …

No, because I’ve not taken notice of anything in La Herald for several years now.

I hope that you merely noticed this from some edition left at work or elsewhere, because the only way this changes is to not be a subscriber, or a purchaser, to persuade others to do the same, while at the same time keeping an eye on the MSM to point out what double-standard shits they are.

Pain in their pocketbook: their reward is failure. It’s the only way this might ever change, although judging from the reaction of almost all of the MSM to declining ratings, readers and revenues, they won’t change even to the point of bankruptcy.
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March 8, 2012 4:14pm
Scott Chris

Wile E. Coyote gets his bird
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March 8, 2012 4:48pm
joana

Longknifs..can you remeber when England entered the common market? No I didn’t think so.
You can cwirtice my spelling for ever and call me all the names under the sun , it doesn’t bother me.
Nothing you or others say can detract from the fact that one million dollars of other peoples money is being thrown at two newbies and their families at a time when decent hard working , humble NZers are lossing their jobs..It is not as if the job these tossers are being required to do requires any great skill. Any half cut kiwi standing on a stool could sack people.
It is an economic issue and of course a social issue.
Poms were ”experz” in NZ in the 1950s..Xenophobia was a half way interesting word in the sixties..Hatchet men were big in the eighties..imported hatchet men have never been big , well maybe in their own egos they have been..
It is all so tired and unimaginative. At least over at building and housing they still know how to have stoush or two. Perhaps we would get more modern decisions out of the Ministry of Health if the girls from building moved on over.
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March 8, 2012 4:51pm
DJP6-25

Ed Snack 2:26pm. It doesn’t surprise me. Reason #958 to get one’s news from the new media.

cheers

David Prosser
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March 8, 2012 4:59pm
krazykiwi

nzclassicalliberal – in response to your comment:

I agree that, all else being equal, children are best raised by their biological parents. But, all else is not generally equal. Biological parents are sometimes unfit, othertimes unwilling, to be parents.

Yup, agree.

When and where it is either not possible, or not sensible to have children living with both biological parents, the question then becomes what the next best option is. Often, the next best option is adoption.

Also agree.

Is there any good reason to believe that children would be better off in a broken home with parents who don’t want them than they would be being adopted by a gay couple?

Who’s suggesting placing kids in a broken home? They should be placed in the optimum environment. I’d suggest that optimum environment is with a father and mother raising their own biological children, something we’ve agreed on.

My main contentions are these: That we should promote the optimal model for children to be raised, by way of policy and incentives. That it’s possible to applaud the optimal without denigrating the sub-optimal.
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March 8, 2012 5:01pm
nasska

KK

What have you & EWS been smoking? This orgy of reasonableness & concession can’t last.

Step back from the keyboard & in a few minutes you’ll be back to your normal homophobic god stalking self.
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March 8, 2012 5:09pm
krazykiwi

nasska, lol. I’ve missed the banter. Oh, and I don’t stalk God…. he’s stalking YOU 😀
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March 8, 2012 5:22pm
nzclassicalliberal

krazykiwi,

“Who’s suggesting placing kids in a broken home? They should be placed in the optimum environment. I’d suggest that optimum environment is with a father and mother raising their own biological children, something we’ve agreed on.

My main contentions are these: That we should promote the optimal model for children to be raised, by way of policy and incentives. That it’s possible to applaud the optimal without denigrating the sub-optimal.”

We may be talking at cross purposes. I am arguing that the fact that in general children are better off living with two biological parents is optimal is not a reason to ban adoption by gay couples. If your sole contention is that ideally a child should be raised by two loving, biological parents then we have no disagreement.
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March 8, 2012 5:26pm
krazykiwi

nzclassicalliberal – there’s no move to ban gays from adopting children. The law current has quite a strong suitability rules when assessing eligibility to adopt, and these ‘exclude’ plenty of individuals and groups from adopting. These rules are based on what’s best for the child. I’d support widening the eligibility criteria if there was sustained evidence of children not being able to find care within the current elibility rules. To widen the criteria to gay, or any other interest group without this evidence is simply pandering to the rights of the group over the best interests of the child. If the evidence exists then it’s time to consider (a) why more optimal families are not adopting needy kids, and (b) establish how the criteria should be widened
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March 8, 2012 5:52pm
bereal

nzclassicalliberal

Regarding adoption of children by homosexuals.

Your arguments at 5.26 are specious.

When we have legions of unfullfiled heteterosexaual couples lining up, trying to adopt.

Why would we want to place children with homosexual couples ?
or
are you trying to maintain that a loving homo pair are just as good for the child as a loving straight pair ?
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March 8, 2012 6:49pm
nasska

An Australian, an Israeli & a Maori were in a terrible car
accident. They were all brought to the same A & E Department
but all three of them died before they arrived. Just as
they were about to wheel the Australian off to the mortuary,
he stirred & opened his eyes. Astonished, the doctors & nurses
present asked him what happened.

“Well,” said the Australian, “I remember the crash, & then
there was a beautiful light & the Maori, the Israeli & I were
standing at the gates of heaven.”

“St. Peter approached us & said that we were all too young
to die & said that for a donation of $50, we could return
to earth. So of course I pulled out my wallet and gave him
the $50 & the next thing I knew was back here.”

“That’s amazing!” said one of the doctors, “But what
happened to the other two?”

“Last I saw them,” replied the Australian, “the Israeli was
haggling over the price & the Maori was waiting for the
government to pay his.”
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March 8, 2012 8:02pm
Griff

There simple are not enough children to supply couples who would like to adopt.
Abortion cuts down the number of unwanted pregnancies
The dpb insures financial support
Even if a child is removed from its parents due to abuse the PTB only foster not adopt children out.
There are many instances of children returned to abusive parents after 5 years plus in foster homes only to be abused again.
Homo parents are the least of your worries when it comes to child abuse;
I just can not fathom the preoccupation with gender and sex Christians seem to harbor.
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March 8, 2012 8:40pm
nasska

Griff

The cross carriers on this forum can’t really be personally blamed. They are immersed in the religious crap from the time they are born. No effort has been spared to install a fully functional sense of original sin & a guilt complex which chokes any enjoyment out of life’s pleasures.

When your life is dictated by wisdom from a burning shrubbery & masturbation is a mortal sin it’s a bit much to expect balance & logic.
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March 8, 2012 8:56pm
Griff

Child abuse Cristian indoctrination
Problem is I support their right to try. It doesn’t stick as much now days.
I used to like “good” Cristian girls in my youth

This liberal is left conservative is right
Left Right
liberal conservative
Are two different intersecting planes on the political landscape.
You can be a far right liberal or a stanch unionist conservative.
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March 8, 2012 9:11pm
nasska

Griff

I never figured that out. There was something about a cloistered girls’ boarding school that used to bring out the animal in its students. Even in the late 60’s, which were still real Christianity saturated times, they used to bang like a shithouse door in a gale.

Left vs Right is a very poor indicator of a person’s overall way of thinking.
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March 8, 2012 9:21pm
Griff

The influence on the political landscape of two party states under first past the post.

Multi party politics allows more nuance.
A much more mature process

Was not boarding school girls I think I was “Friends” with every pastor,priest and ministers daughter of age in ten ks
I think that they liked that i knew as much as them yet still did not believe in g*d.
Ya Gota understand that u do not believe in
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March 8, 2012 9:40pm
nasska

Griff

It took a secondary education at a good Christian boarding school to teach me to be an atheist but it was one lesson that stuck. All that mind numbing attendance at chapel gave ample opportunity to bring oneself up to speed with the vagaries of the “Good Book”. That & the ridiculous counting of the subject of “scriptures” which counted as a full subject when determining your overall class position.

Two hours of frantic religious writing was worth as much as slogging your guts out for a high science mark.
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March 8, 2012 9:52pm
Griff

Beats me
I only have read a few books on the subject
Mind you I have a l slightly warped standard as to how many a few are.
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March 8, 2012 10:21pm

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