Whale v Sister

March 3rd, 2012 at 1:09 pm by David Farrar

blogs:

I just had a phone call from the sister of the Turangi Child Rapist, . …

Then she started into a lecture about how her wee brother was hard done by. How the police fitted him up and he was only wasted and fell onto the little girl. How it was all a fit up by the girls mother.

It sickened me. What a bunch of losers. Explaining away hours of surgery to repair the damage that this shit-bag did to a 5 year old on “just being wasted”.

This family is disfunctional. They are justifying crimes and excusing abhorrent behaviour.

The last thing she said is that I breached her poor wee brother’s privacy by posting photos he put on Facebook….on his open and public page. I told her to get fucked, that I won;t ever take down the photos and they could whinge all they liked to the Privacy Commissioner.

She told me she would before she hung up. I can’t hardly wait.

This confirms all my worst fears. This suggests all the remorse is a sham, and that the offender probably has no one in his life telling him how what he did is so horribly horribly wrong.

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98 Responses to “Whale v Sister”

  1. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Show of hands, who is suprised?

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  2. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Yes…how utterly (un)surprising…

    And when some Judge with a very good connection with planet Earth – like Judge Adeane of Hastings – gives some shithead what he richly deserves, the Court of Appeal cuts the sentence in half….

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  3. Northland Wahine (667 comments) says:

    Why surprised at the lack of remorse and ownership?

    The only thing they are sorry about is that he was caught. End of story.

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  4. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    What a lovely family: the sister is as likable as the vile criminal and rapist. Same goes for “mother” and “father”.
    Animal treat their offspring better than this despicable individuals.

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  5. wreck1080 (3,923 comments) says:

    The sister called newstalk zb the other day. Not sure if the same one, but I think she was about 15 years old.

    I’m for locking the worst offenders for the remainder of their lives —this boy certainly would qualify.

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  6. RF (1,404 comments) says:

    Dear God… These animals do not deserve to breath the same air as decent law abiding citizens.

    I hope the rapist has a nightmare stay in prison.

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  7. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    I am not sure that I would attribute the sister’s idiotic view to the boy as well and thereby conclude that the remorse is a sham.

    I have represented truly remorseful defendants who have had family members who have had little or no understanding of what their relative was feeling. It is also possible that the sister is still under misapprehensions caused by early explanations from the boy that are now contrary to his present feelings. His imprisonment on remand would have drastically reduced their chance to talk about any change to his level of remorse.

    So I would just be cautious in assuming that his view and her view intersect.

    That is not to defend the boy at al, nor the sister for apparently believing such a ridiculous claim.

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  8. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    David Garrett – are you sorry that you stole a dead baby’s identity or sorry you got caught?

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  9. Elaycee (4,393 comments) says:

    “Then she started into a lecture about how her wee brother was hard done by. How the police fitted him up and he was only wasted and fell onto the little girl. How it was all a fit up by the girls mother.”

    What a disgrace – a totally dysfunctional family in full throttle denial of their (collective) actions… Quelle surprise.

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  10. DT (104 comments) says:

    Or Whale could just be telling lies again… seriously DPF, commenting on his opinions is one thing, but when he talks facts you can’t really rely on the guy.

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  11. Leaping Jimmy (16,509 comments) says:

    The only good thing is this won’t endear the family to the gangs. Quite the opposite.

    It’s interesting the sister reads a political blog too. Not what you’d think someone like that would be in to. I wonder if the sister was thinking that if she could put that spin on it, perhaps the gangs would leave her bro alone inside. That is of course if she made any calculation at all. It’s equally likely she really believes what she said. But regardless, if that was a calculation on her part, I suspect the gangs will be even more determined to exact revenge on the little bastard and probably now, on the family as well, in due course, naturally. According to the media it was the family who handed him in. I wonder if that was prompted by certain “encouragement” from the gangs?

    FES your point is well taken as a possibility but isn’t it equally possible that Raurangi actually does hold the attitude enunciated by his sister? The depths of dysfunction which have to have existed in order to make this thing happen in the first place tend to argue for the latter possibility, I would have thought.

    I think quite frankly society needs to start a crash program to identify all the Marino households out there and deal to them, one by one, until none of them are left. By deal to them I mean, correct their dysfunctional attitudes, by teaching them accountability and don’t take no for an answer and don’t make it voluntary and don’t stop until they’ve learned how profoundly wrong their current attitudes are. Whatever it takes to make that happen, needs to happen. Now. Without delay. Right across the whole country.

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  12. Mark (496 comments) says:

    I am not surprised, this family is the lowest of the low.

    Where is you proof DT that Whale is telling lies. Or do you just make wild baseless accusations all the time with no proof.

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  13. DT (104 comments) says:

    I’m not saying he is lying here, I’m saying he frequently does so read his stuff with a grain of salt until you see supporting evidence. His stuff is amusing, but frequently he makes stuff up (maybe he actually believes it, who knows).

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  14. Griff (7,808 comments) says:

    Defiantly a family of manipulative lairs
    With a unhealthy level of self justification
    No remorse from any of them. just cunning attempts at gaming the system.

    Leaping jimmy is right stamp the ferals out now

    Non association orders heavily enforced for all gang affiliates convected of any crime

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  15. Mark (496 comments) says:

    So DT you have no evidence of Whaleoil lying but you suggest he does then double down with the statement that he frequently he makes stuff up.

    Any supporting evidence or are you just going to continue to defame Whaleoil.

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  16. Longknives (4,764 comments) says:

    Leaping Jimmy- You seem to be under some rather romantic and distorted illusions about the nature and behaviour of gangs…You havn’t actually ever met any of these Gangmembers you seem to hold in such high regard have you??
    (And no watching Sons of Anarchy doesn’t count..)
    You do realise they actively encourage this type of feral behaviour? Don’t believe me? Do some research on how the Mongrel Mob got their name…
    Rather than the ‘Gangs’ extracting revenge I strongly suspect that Marino will be rewarded with a shiny new patch for his actions…

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  17. DT (104 comments) says:

    Claims that Winston wears a tupee. I don’t like Winston either, but he clearly doesn’t.

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  18. Northland Wahine (667 comments) says:

    DT…. Claims that Winston wears a tupee. I don’t like Winston either, but he clearly doesn’t.

    that’s it? Seriously?

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  19. Leaping Jimmy (16,509 comments) says:

    LongKnives yes I have met one or two over the years but don’t claim to know them well in any way. I know gangsters are vicious thugs but even vicious thugs have rules. All reports indicate and have done for decades that criminals of all kinds gangs included don’t tolerate child crimes. They just don’t.

    This well known axiom is what was behind my comment and yes of course I may be wrong in this case, of course I could. However there is nothing romantic in that view. I don’t do romance when I’m thinking about how people and groups and even countries behave in general terms, I leave that for the lefties.

    Edit: DT, how do you *know* he doesn’t?

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  20. Mark (496 comments) says:

    I agree – is that it DT, and and by the way Whaleoil has suggested that Winston is wearing a toupee, not a tupee.

    Why don’t you DT go up to Winston and grabs his hair and pull. Then we will know if Whaleoil is right or lying. You haven’t proved anything yet, you need to provide something that is verifiable.

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  21. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    And the prize for the most naive and clueless poster so far today goes to…………….

    Come on down, Leaping Jimmy. 3.34( and further above)

    “all reports indicate..” FFS. What reports Jimmy ? Name any one.
    “This well known axiom………” Look up the neaning of the word ‘axiom’ Jimmy.

    “and yes of course I may be wrong in this case.” Well you got one thing right Jimmy.
    How the fuck can you be wrong if it is an axiom you…..XXXX wit ?

    Hey Jimmy, when the 15 or 14 year old goes on the block at the Maori gang (whatever gang) party, how many pissed and druggeged up bro’s do you think turn down the opportunity due to ‘ethics’ ?

    Sorry mate but you are totally clueless. No idea at all.
    You reckon you have met a few gang menbers over the years,
    what a bullshit artist you are.

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  22. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    It’s not uncommon for the families to believe their brother/ son is innocent. Especially the girls.

    As some of you know my best mate murdered his gf when we were 19. He’s guilty as sin. His family maintain he is innocent. They know he did it but they think their was no intent and it was a mistake…

    I guess it’s how people cope.

    Oh yeah, they think the cops who prosecuted are bastards… Cause they took his confession!

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  23. Mark (496 comments) says:

    No there is no mistake, they are just willing to lie to themselves and the world. They have raised hell-spawn and they are to blame as much as the young man himself. He has shown no true remorse and will predict that he will be released and caused more harm to and be put back into prison.

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  24. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    LJ,

    Yes, absolutely possible that the sister’s view is shared by the boy. But, as I said, also very possible it doesn’t.

    Offenders often begin by minimising or justifying their actions, and this is usually when they still have a lot of contact with their family. As the process continues their attitude will often change as they consider what they have done, but if the person is on remand then the family can not be aware of the change in attitude.

    I have seen it often enough to know it is a strong possibility, even if I cannot sy it is a probability.

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  25. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Afternoon me Lord Birkenhead (even though you cant see me :) )

    Have we had a Saul on the road to Damascus moment in my absence?

    Is Leaping Jimmy really Magpie with proper English speak?

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  26. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    dime 4.03
    It might depend upon HOW he killed her.

    A smack in the head in a sudden rage and she banged her head into something hard on the way down is way different than,
    say, strangling her ( takes a long time)
    or stabbing her, how many times? (why did he have a knife) etc etc

    Still, your point regarding the family needing to justify it in some way is taken.

    Care to share how long he served, has he gone on to make something of his life ?
    You still his mate ?
    I realise that something like that would be totaly traumatising and devastating for you as well as everyone that knew them.
    No problem if you ignore my questions.

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  27. grumpyoldhori (2,362 comments) says:

    No wonder I bang my fucking head when some say charter schools are the answer to shit parents of kids who are probably fourth generation to look forward to nothing but the dole and getting pissed.
    Unless kids are taken out of that environment by the age of six nothing will change.

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  28. Leaping Jimmy (16,509 comments) says:

    Bereal, if you haven’t been listening to the media over the years I can’t help you and further, I can’t be arsed looking up a media report that substantiates the point I was making since I suspect if I did, you’d simply dismiss it in your profound ignorance as an anomaly, and demand another, and another and you still wouldn’t get it.

    It is an axiom that gangs don’t like child rapists and I don’t need to look that word up, I already know what it means.

    We’re talking about a raped five year old Bereal. That’s a different category to a 13-14 y.o. put on the block as an initiation. It shouldn’t be and I wish neither happened, ever, but it is, in their thinking. That doesn’t make it right, but the distinction is there. I’m not interested in discussing the rights and wrongs of the latter but since you drew it as analogous I simply point out in THEIR minds there is a distinction.

    FES do you really think the rehab stuff will work with people like this? We’ve seen the guy who killed the innocent pizza delivery guy come out with a massive chip and no real understanding of what he did. Sure this guy is a few years older, but still, I don’t hold high hopes.

    Johnboy, I’m reid.

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  29. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    Bereal – strangled her.

    Served 11 years for murder which was pathetic.

    I stood by him, visited him for 11 years. When he got out I tried to help him… For over a year. Introduced him to people. Bought him into my life. Tried to help him “grow up” s he still thought like a teenager.

    He then met a girl and went loopy. Took a while to piece together but he was emotionally abusing her. So i tried to help/ warn the girl and cut him loose.

    He’s a bit like a mild clayton weathesrton. I can’t see him reoffending. Not because he’s a good guy but because he wouldn’t want to go to jail again.

    And yea, it was traumatizing when it happened. We were like brothers. It’s still hasn’t sunk in 100% as to what he did. I hoped he would get manslaughter at the time. But he got what he deserved. Hell, he got off light. He always knew where I stood too. I’d visit him in Jill and tell him he’d be seeing 50 years if I was PM

    He will emotionally abuse women for the st of his life though. But hey, if they are stupid enough to date a murderer then so be it.

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  30. gump (1,650 comments) says:

    Mark said:

    So DT you have no evidence of Whaleoil lying but you suggest he does then double down with the statement that he frequently he makes stuff up.

    Any supporting evidence or are you just going to continue to defame Whaleoil.

    ————————

    Whale has been known to publish blog posts without doing even basic fact checking. But that’s more to do with poor journalistic practice than outright lying.

    I’m inclined to believe he did take a call in this case. His phone number is listed on his blog (under contact & tipline) so it would be fairly easy for one of the Marino clan to contact him directly.

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  31. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Thank G_d for that Leaping Jimmy! :)

    He was due out on parole yesterday but going on the difficulty around my recent rehabilitation and the perfect diction I found it hard to believe it was the Magpie. The comment number had me confused.

    We have him to look forward to shortly. :)

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  32. Anthony (796 comments) says:

    Something I agree with Hori on – hasn’t John Key said he wants early intervention to help solve this country’s social problems?

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  33. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    An act of faith.

    http://www.myspace.com/keithsecolawildband/photos/1683905

    :)

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  34. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “hasn’t John Key said he wants early intervention to help solve this country’s social problems?”

    Probably he has.

    Just what we need, more of the same thinking that got us into this mess.

    Bring back the death penalty.

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  35. Scott Chris (6,150 comments) says:

    dime and FE Smith make the most sense on this thread.

    The girl sounds like she’s in denial which is a perfectly natural reaction and yet some of the commenters here are referring to her as if she’d committed the crime herself.

    Most likely she sees her brother as a kindred spirit having endured the same abusive upbringing.

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  36. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    More likely she is a stupid shit stirring cunt Scott Chris @5.37. What is so fucking hard to understand about some people are just born fucking evil:

    The following animal was already on “court ordered supervision for murdering a baby son:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/6511637/Infanticide-rate-is-too-high-psychiatrist

    dn she gets let out by our courts so she can go and murder her baby daughter.
    And we call it infanticide. I’d call it a good argument for the the penalty if you don;t want infant corpses piling up on mattresses around the country.

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  37. Mark (496 comments) says:

    No I don’t agree, that he doesn’t do basic fact checking, because that would be using Google which he does use.

    Where is your condemnation where a paper published a story about a mother sob story before the election that was in a relationship with a Green Party member, or his recent expose on pimping the poor.

    Whaleoil didnt become the number 1 blog in NZ by not doing basic fact checking, in fact that is what makes his blog a must read. While you may disagree with his views he does not lie on his blog.

    He does the stories that the left doesnt want to write about but NZders do want to hear. I think he should be named as next New Zealander of the Year.

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  38. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Mark

    I’d go along with that. For example the POA wharfies’ pay. CK did the homework but it was Whale who hammered the point.

    Without DPF, CK, Whale et al we’d be sitting in the dark being fed crap just as the so called reporters employed by the MSM would like to have us.

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  39. Leaping Jimmy (16,509 comments) says:

    Why don’t you DT go up to Winston and grabs his hair and pull.

    Let’s hope the Speaker instructs the Sergeant at Arms to do that next time Winston needs to be ejected during Question Time, in lieu of actually asking him to leave the Chamber. I’m sure that even if it’s not currently explicit in Standing Orders, almost any one of the Hunt/Wilson precedents could be called into play to transform such an interpretation from mere Obiter into a Ratio Decidendi.

    No doubt Winston would appeal which would mean the SC would probably be forced to order it done live on Walrus and/or Campbell Live, preferably both, instead of in the House which hardly anyone watches.

    Goody.

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  40. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Did John Key really say he wanted to see early intervention? If he did, why doesn’t he do something about it? Or will it becomes anopther ‘aspirational goal’?

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  41. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    LJ,

    Difficult to say, as each person responds differently. I am always sceptical of NZ’s sex offender programmes, they just don’t seem to actually do much good. And the guys who I have talked to that have completed them say they can get quite weird.

    If the kid (and he is a kid, and that makes an enormous difference to it being an adult offender) was off his face at the time then he may need alcohol counselling more than sex offender rehab. By the time he is released he will undoubtedly be a different person compared to who he is today.

    But ultimately it comes down to him. Your point about Bailey Kuariki is well made, and shows the problems of putting young kids in prison, even if it is a young offenders home or a youth wing.

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  42. Scott Chris (6,150 comments) says:

    Monique Watson says:- “What is so fucking hard to understand about some people are just born fucking evil”

    Why is so hard to understand that only fools rush to judgement before being sufficiently informed of the facts of a matter.

    Funny thing is, when you actually bother to find out the full story you begin to understand why shit happens instead of simply reacting emotionally. There is no such thing as evil. There is only reason.

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  43. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    dime. 4.49

    It takes quite a few minutes of sustained red rage to strangle a person and watch them die before your very eyes.

    You could never have helped this guy after the fact however well intentioned, and how much effort you were prepared to put in based on your previous relationship because.
    You can’t change his past life experience.

    If you strangle your girlfriend aged 19 then you are acting out as a result of some rage that was deep rooted due to something in your past. ( or, you are just a psycopath, no feelings for another, who feels they have been disrespected therefore that person deserves to die, cause they asked for it)

    Don’t be so sure that it can’t happen again with someone like that.

    Given the same triggering circumstances the fear of going back inside may be overridden by the uncontrolable rage that is evoked.

    Your last sentence is insightfull. “he will emotionally abuse women for the rest of his life.”
    You seem to blame the stupid women who chose to date an ex murderer.
    Thats crook mate. i know you know that is wrong.

    One thing, every innocent person who comes in contact with a disturbed soul such as him will be the worse for it,
    you included
    If you still know this bloke you may feel that you are obliged to alert any future partner of his as to his past.
    That is a cross you may have to bear due to the bad luck you had in innocently befriending him before he revealed
    his true colours.
    Life is not easy. Some have a harder row to hoe.
    We just gotta do the best we can with the cards we are delt. (Alfred E Neuman)

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  44. wreck1080 (3,923 comments) says:

    LJ says…” We’ve seen the guy who killed the innocent pizza delivery guy come out with a massive chip and no real understanding of what he did.”

    Usually I am the first to demand harsher sentences to violent criminals but I reckon Bailey Kuariki was treated unfairly by the media and society.

    Firstly Bailey Kuariki did not kill the pizza guy. Can you actually recall the name of the person who did the killing? No, because it was one of the most disgusting media spectacles I’ve seen, distorting the facts to sell more news.The media actually made Bailey the killer and the real killer was forgotten.

    Bailey was 12 (ish?), and was ordered by adults to act as a look-out. The adults were the primary offenders, not Bailey.

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  45. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    Bereal – he’s a full blown narcissist with physcopathic tendencies IMHO. A very good liar too. But that’s not unusual with his type.

    Let me be clear. The guy disgusts me. No girl deserves to be put up with a nutter like him.

    Ya have me feeling like that cop in Canada that said women shouldn’t dress slutty!

    Its just unfortunate that people put themselves in these situations. Never date a murderer should be an easy rule to follow. As I found out though, warning people doesn’t always help.

    I did my best to get his gf out of there. She knew what he was and capable of but just didn’t want to leave.

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  46. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    wreck1080

    are you for real mate?
    Poor old Bailey was treated unfairly ????

    Guess what, the whole crew involved in a criminal enterprise that results in the death of an innocent are guilty.

    You got a problem with that ?

    How was Bailey treated unfairly in your mind ?

    Hanging out to hear how.
    Get on with it wreck1080

    i 4 one will be facinated with your response.

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  47. Leaping Jimmy (16,509 comments) says:

    There is no such thing as evil. There is only reason.

    Scott if you really think that, you have no understanding of what makes children tick, let alone adults.

    I diagnose your libertarian perspectives have broken your thinking capacity conrods re: understanding humans, therefore you should pull into the next service centre on the highway of life and get a full engine replacement. Yes, it’s that serious.

    I reckon Bailey Kuariki was treated unfairly by the media and society.

    Definitely agree wreck. I was merely pointing out above, that his treatment failed and it’s still the same system we’re sending Raurangi into, so why would we expect a different result: definition of insanity and all that applies here.

    However at the same time this doesn’t mean we should accept what either have done is in anyway acceptable and if we did have a decent society, we would have had systems and processes in place long ago to deal to the root causes of both these outcomes which would mean they would never have happened.

    We all no doubt recall Bolger making the Decent Society part of his pledge back in the 90’s but that hasn’t made a jot of diff has it, so this should lead us to conclude the politicians have no fucking idea what they’re doing, so what’s the solution, because this is going to happen again, and again, and again. And if the useless venal fuck-headed politicians don’t have the answer (which we know they don’t), then how is it going to be changed?

    Given we all as a society agree it should be changed, so the will is not the problem, it appears to be pretty hopeless doesn’t it. Especially since unless Walrus and Campbell Live keep this issue alive every week or so for the next fifty or so years, the rest of the people who don’t visit KB will no doubt concern themselves with more important matters, such as who is Brad Pitt going to marry next.

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  48. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Would it be J-Lo LJ? :)

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  49. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Watching an old recording of Sir Les Patterson ( the Australian Cultural Ambassador to the Court of St James)
    on u tube.

    He was telling a story of that great Australian opera Diva, Dame Joan Sutherland.
    Joan had a very healthy sexual appetite and loved perfume.

    Sir Les pointed out what Dame Joan used to put behind her ears to attract menfolk.
    Her ankles.

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  50. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Ah. If only sheep were so supple! :)

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  51. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    At Wreck 1080.
    Bailey K is a killer, remember. Do you mean he was treated unfairly by the media and society as a killer or treated unfairly in some other capacity?
    Remember, he was convicted in a court of law as a killer. Funny I don’t seem to remember any evidence of his innocence. Sounds to me like you have teary hug-a-crim socialist eyes.
    Numbnuts.

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  52. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    LJ,

    I diagnose your libertarian perspectives have broken your thinking capacity conrods…

    Scott may be many things, but one thing he is not is a libertarian. He is not at all against growth of government. In fact he often advocates for it as part of the solution. He may well consider himself a “Social Democrat” – as do Labour – which is really just lipstick on the pig that is Socialism – makes it a little more palatable to the common folk you understand?

    What Scott wants to do, however, is lay claim to the label of liberal. The liberals (now called “classical liberals”) were aboslutely against the growth of government and imposition of regulation and controls on people – unless their actions harmed others. Scott would like “Social Democrats” to be considered the liberals of today – more government good, less regulation bad [to paraphrase Orwell.]

    [For what it's worth, I do not consider myself a "classical liberal", but neither would I see myself as an "interventionist". (And certainly not a Social Democrat)]

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  53. Leaping Jimmy (16,509 comments) says:

    Thanks bhudson. The last thing I want to do on this thread or anytime really, is to analyse where Scott’s gone wrong, so perhaps I shouldn’t have said anything at all. In fact, I definitely shouldn’t have.

    Meanwhile, what the hell is the matter with this dude’s sister?

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  54. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Leaping Jimmy

    He feels that Bailey Kuariki has been,’ unfairly treated………..’7.54

    But guess what.
    One thing that you can put your ring around is that Leaping Jimmy will not be able to spell out WHY he was unfairly treated.

    Prove me wrong Jimmy.

    Try and prove your point without resorting to PC bullshit gobbledegook.

    You have the stage Jimmy.
    Go for it.

    And guess what people.
    You won’t hear from Jimmy any time soon on this subject.

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  55. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    LJ,

    The optimist in me would like to think that dime has this right in his personal story – the reaction of a family member that doesn’t want to see a child or sibling in such a bad light.

    On the other hand, I have been figuratively scratching my head on this one all day thinking I was sure that nothing could possibly ever come close to the horror and sadness of the assault itself. The ability of people to surprise knows no bounds.

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  56. plebe (271 comments) says:

    How can you lot be so mean about a member of the first nation, it was us the white motherfuckers who made this poor child of the land to commit rape,plus dak, and a heap of cheap beer, plus the need for a gang tat.The treaty settlement hadnt trickled down, to this hori sorry grumpy he could be a cussie bro ,right boss, a tongue sticker out so as this bro starts his ten years in club prison, we can think of the young guest to our country AND THE SHAME for her and our country,(i feel for this young child), and not another hori,opps maori inside,die inside you scum.

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  57. Scott Chris (6,150 comments) says:

    LJ, yes bhudson is right in one respect. I’m no libertarian even though my inner child wants me to be.

    But he’s wrong on all the other counts, as are you. Evil only exists as a subjective illusion. It isn’t real, it’s only apparent.

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  58. gump (1,650 comments) says:

    Mark said:

    Whaleoil didnt become the number 1 blog in NZ by not doing basic fact checking, in fact that is what makes his blog a must read. While you may disagree with his views he does not lie on his blog.

    ——————————-

    Read the following linked pages in order, then tell me again that he does basic fact checking on his blog posts.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10632261
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10632616
    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2010/03/apology-to-chris-carter/

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  59. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    gump,

    You find something from 2 years ago, that Slater himself publicly apologised for on his own blog, and that is evidence that he lies?

    It is true that he has been want to shoot form the hip in the past, but if you have not noticed a very large shift in his application and approach in the past months, then I fear you might be somewhat blinkered. While he is still very much to the point, I would contend he is also very much more considered in his posts nowadays.

    “To err is human; to forgive, divine”

    Slater erred and was human enough to admit it and apologise. You, instead, cling to his error as somehow defining his being. Are you admitting you are no better than he?

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  60. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Scott Chris (3,812) Says:
    March 3rd, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    Have you ever dealt with a criminal Scott Chris? Someone mentally insane? Otherwise how can you say: There is only reason.
    How can you be sure?
    I’m passionate about this, sociopaths only need a glimpse and they’re in like Flynn.

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  61. Leaping Jimmy (16,509 comments) says:

    Prove me wrong Jimmy.

    OK Bereal.

    Kuariki if he had been fairly treated would have come out well educated and well adjusted, given the resources he had available to him during his formative years given how malleable he was when he went inside, given he was 12.

    Instead what we see is an institutionalised fool at large in society with a chip on both shoulders a mile wide blaming everyone for his own problems.

    The resources the system spent on him could have been used preparing him for a sterling professional career and he should have been at university now studying law or engineering or something and with an attitude of gratitude for the fact this society cared enough about him as a human being that we gave him a chance his siblings never ever got and at the same time we held him to account for Kuariki also, courtesy of said resources thrown at him, should also have had inculcated into him an acute awareness of the damage he had done and he should therefore have been implaccably determined to make it up to Michael Choy’s mother and family and also the rest of society as well, which motivated him to strive and succeed and repay, as much as he could, the victim’s family and NZ society for the damage he caused. That’s what should have happened. And it could have, given how malleable and young he was when he started his sentence.

    Instead, owing probably to the fact the people in charge of him had a two-digit IQ and the people who designed the system had the same, and the people directly in charge weren’t asked to do anything more than keep the boy under control, we end up with what we’ve got now.

    So yes, to the extent Kauriki himself has been deprived of the opportunity to rid himself of that stigma and make amends for what he did, the system has let him down, given it could have used THE SAME TIME AND THE SAME RESOURCES TO DO SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. The system has also let us, the taxpayer down but most critically, Michael Choy’s family down as well, given that we and they, now see that nothing, absolutely nothing good has come out of the whole wretched episode, even though we, the taxpayer, must have spent literally millions on this young man in the years he’s been inside.

    And newsflash Bereal, this isn’t Kauriki’s fault for not co-operating, it’s the useless fucking systems’ fault for not even knowing how to handle a fucking 12 year old, FFS.

    So if that’s not a systemic failure, then what the fuck is?

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  62. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    Who cares a raging fuck about David Garrett’s Dead baby bullshit? Prick was dead…deal with it.

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  63. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Leaping Jimmy

    after having skimmed over your pittiful effort @ 10.31 above.
    At the point i reached where you say that Bailey Kuariki should have been at University now studying Law or Engineering.

    Then it became clear to me that you are just a fuken idiot.

    A total fuken off the air drongo idiot.

    A fucken idiot with no lfe experience.

    No comprehension of anything human.

    A true example of how fucked up a person can get.

    Either your Mum, or your Dad, or your Waikato University lecturer should be ashamed of thenselves.

    Your just a joke mate.

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  64. Elaycee (4,393 comments) says:

    LJ says: “Kuariki if he had been fairly treated would have come out well educated and well adjusted, given the resources he had available to him during his formative years given how malleable he was when he went inside, given he was 12.”

    I’m not so sure about that… the ‘damage’ was already done – long before his manslaughter conviction:

    “At the time of Choy’s death Kurariki was in the custody of Child, Youth and Family rather than his mother Lorraine West but had absconded, he had been in trouble since the age of five and had not been to school for more than a year. In the days following the death of Choy, Kurariki was interviewed by police and reportedly confessed to the killings, but due to a procedural error on the part of the police the Court of Appeal ruled the results of the interview could not be presented to the jury.”

    Trouble since the age of 5? Hadn’t attended school for more than a year? His confession to murder could not be played to the jury?

    Not sure how ‘the system’ can be held to blame – how about any ‘blame’ is fairly and squarely laid at the feet of his parents. How the hell is ‘the system’ meant to help a 5 year old who is already in trouble with the Police? Even as a 12 year old, this prick should have known right from wrong but he CHOSE to take a wrong path. And not for the first time.

    That’s not any fault of ‘the system’ – that is a direct result of crap parenting and his conviction was another direct result of poor choices by the prick himself.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey_Junior_Kurariki
    http://www.cyc-net.org/features/ft-bailey.html

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  65. Scott Chris (6,150 comments) says:

    Monique, people are the way they are for a reason. Combination of genes and upbringing. If you are born with a mental defect or without a conscience for instance, then that’s just the way you are. Can you tell me why you think it’s a person’s fault that they are born this way?

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  66. Leaping Jimmy (16,509 comments) says:

    Not sure how ‘the system’ can be held to blame – how about any ‘blame’ is fairly and squarely laid at the feet of his parents.

    Yes Elaycee, possibly a hyperbole on my part re: that aspect of my 10:31, however I felt I had be to exceedingly emphatic about every little thing simply to penetrate the core message if not the finer details into Bereal’s enormously thick skull but from her 11:13 it seems even that didn’t do it for her, so I can’t be arsed anymore.

    I wasn’t BTW, talking about Marino, at all, in that 10:31, simply responding to Beryl’s point, which was about Kauriki. So please don’t interpolate anything I said there into what I think should be done to Marino. Certainly not. He’s a different case altogether. I haven’t actually discussed what I think should happen to him.

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  67. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    “But he’s wrong on all the other counts, as are you. Evil only exists as a subjective illusion. It isn’t real, it’s only apparent”

    You are such a dickhead scottchris.

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  68. gump (1,650 comments) says:

    bhudson said:

    You find something from 2 years ago, that Slater himself publicly apologised for on his own blog, and that is evidence that he lies?

    It is true that he has been want to shoot form the hip in the past, but if you have not noticed a very large shift in his application and approach in the past months, then I fear you might be somewhat blinkered. While he is still very much to the point, I would contend he is also very much more considered in his posts nowadays.

    ——————————–

    If you want current examples of poor journalistic practice then you only had read his blog last week.

    Allegation:

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2012/02/what-is-going-on-in-helensville/

    Retraction:

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2012/02/what-is-going-on-in-helensville-ctd/

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  69. Elaycee (4,393 comments) says:

    @LJ – Gotcha. :)

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  70. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    gump – I agree, Whale has changed his blog content and his approach (in some ways) substantially over the last few months, doing a much better (and more credible) job now.

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  71. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    @Scott Chris.
    I don’t think it’s a person’s fault. But saying they are a combination of genes and upbringing and putting it back to society to fix them is like sitting on the deck of the titanic bailing water with a bucket.
    I believe from what you say that you like “answers” and that is why you say “Dime and FE make the most sense”.

    You’re a man or woman at 12 and extremely unlikely to deviate from that path. You’re also a child until about the age of 25 when brain development is compete. Society can’t cater for both sides of this story with competing interests so we tend to err on the side of caution to allow those who make mistakes to correct course.
    BUT:
    the proportion of those that do is infinitesimal. So for a nice fuzzy feeling about giving the prodigal son a chance to return we waste resources and let killers out when they should just be kept from society at large. It’s NOT the uppity media’s fault that BK is a killer. It’s not society’s fault that he picked up more killing skills in prison.; he might have been a nice boy had he gone to varsity. Rubbish
    Everyone has a choice and killers kill because they like killing. It’s like they inhabit a different reality and they LIKE it. Unless you have a glimpse like dime you can’t comprehend it.

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  72. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Looking at LJ and Elaycee’s exchange I couldn’t help but feel they were talking past each other. Yes, individuals need to be held accountable for their choices and actions. They also need to be given the chance to reform, especially at the earliest possible opportunity.
    Kurariki was possibly beyond much help by the time of the Choy killing. We’d be pretty silly to give up completely on an offender at that age. It is still possible that he will mature, as many young offenders do. Failure in his case is no reason to give up.
    Of course, his case also points to the needs for earlier, and more effective, intervention. That’s been talked about, but not really practised for many years because of the cost. It is still cheaper to lock up the few really bad guys than try to address the causes of offending before the offending becomes manifest.

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  73. Put it away (2,880 comments) says:

    Beyond hope. Drop the whole family down a well.

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  74. Leaping Jimmy (16,509 comments) says:

    Kurariki was possibly beyond much help by the time of the Choy killing.

    A 12 y.o. (or 13 as he was when sentenced) is not beyond hope mm.

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  75. wreck1080 (3,923 comments) says:

    Bereal

    Poor old Bailey was treated unfairly ????

    Guess what, the whole crew involved in a criminal enterprise that results in the death of an innocent are guilty.
    You got a problem with that ?
    How was Bailey treated unfairly in your mind ?

    No I don’t have a problem with that. They are all of course guilty. But, your argument is very simple.

    You apply equal guilt to all those involved which I say is a load of rubbish.

    The 12 year old kid acting as a lookout certainly is a far less guilty than the adult who violently beat the victim to death.

    This ’12’ year old child was pressured by adults to act as a lookout.

    If you think that the crime of a child being coerced to act is a lookout is equal to an adult killing someone, then it is impossible to argue with someone like you.

    @monique :

    Name calling ? Insults? Not a nice person are you.

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  76. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    It is still possible that he will mature, as many young offenders do. Failure in his case is no reason to give up.

    Tell that to the victims of his crimes. Michael Choy’s mother, in particular.

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  77. Brian Smaller (4,023 comments) says:

    Every person involved in a criminal enterprise where a person is injured or killed are equally guilty.

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  78. rouppe (971 comments) says:

    I love the “fell in the window” statement. How the heck do you fall in the window of a caravan?

    Most that I’ve seen, the windows are at chest height when standing on the ground outside, as the floor of the caravan is about knee height. He wouldn’t even be able to fall into the door, let alone a window.

    And rape is penetration, not ejaculation.

    Liars all of them

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  79. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    No you’re right I’m not nice. I’d rather stick the whole family down a long drop than a well.

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  80. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Slippery slide Wreck 1080. When exactly does someone become culpable.? Of course he is every bit as culpable because he didn’t break his arm running away for help. That alone suggests he relished his role.

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  81. rouppe (971 comments) says:

    wreck1080

    I was a juror on a trial a few weeks ago. Essentially a man and a woman went round to confront a female third party over some business disagreement between the two women. It escalated to the point where the man beat up on the third woman, quite badly. We had photos.

    We had to judge the guilt of the man of “injury with intent to injure”, which was pretty easy. We had to judge whether the woman was guilty of the same crime “as a party”. It is known as party liability. If the third party actively participates or encourages the action, they are guilty as a party.

    I’d say that acting as a lookout is participating in the crime. Standing around watching a beating is not, however standing around shouting “get them, hit them” etc IS, as they are encouraging the crime.

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  82. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Leaping Jimmy: (where do they get these noms…) and others…the point you are all missing is “the system” – in form of the Corrections Department and the Parole Board SAID at the time of his release that Kurariki was a reformed individual with a bright future…I happen to know a huge amount of resources and effort were expended on him while he was incarcerated…the sad reality is that it was all a total waste of time…yes, 12 or 13 IS too late to make a difference….about seven years too late.

    I can say this: the poor prick was destined to end up as he has from the beginning…have you seen his mother on the telly? The only hope he ever had was to be removed from his “family” at birth…and now we as a society are going to have to pay the price for the next 30 or 40 years for not having the guts to do that…whenever he is out of jail he will continue to reoffend – probably violently – until age wearies him, or one of his bros kills him….and absolutely nothing can change that now.

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  83. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I should be interested in direct quotes that back up the assertion that “the Corrections Department and the Parole Board SAID at the time of his release that Kurariki was a reformed individual with a bright future”.

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  84. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    mikenmild

    They could have been influenced by the idiot Workman. Ref: http://canterburyatheists.blogspot.co.nz/2009/05/bailey-junior-kurariki-natural-born.html

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  85. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    “The teenager who viciously raped a five-year-old girl at a Turangi campground has recorded a rap song for his mother from behind bars.”

    Aw isnt that nice. What a nice caring boy.

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  86. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    labours a joke

    Outstanding! It’s obvious that his rehabilitation is well underway. I confidently predict that the nice Mr Workman will take him under his wing & probably give him his very own Bible.

    Pity that Mr Workman’s track record is less than 100%.

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  87. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Garrett’s comment wasn’t about Workman, but about the “Corrections Department and the Parole Board”.

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  88. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    mikenmild

    Ref:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10497358

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  89. wreck1080 (3,923 comments) says:

    @rouppe : : I’d agree with such decision,as these 2 were both adults. (talk about drop kicks too).

    But what would you have decided if the woman was actually his 12 year old daughter watching her dad kill this person?

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  90. Leaping Jimmy (16,509 comments) says:

    I happen to know a huge amount of resources and effort were expended on him while he was incarcerated…the sad reality is that it was all a total waste of time…yes, 12 or 13 IS too late to make a difference….about seven years too late.

    David, (I’m reid BTW and LJ was/is my gaming name, when I used to play – hence the Leaping… It seemed appropriate here as well seeing as how I do a fair bit of leaping here too, esp on lefties.) Anyhoo, my point was, if we aren’t capable of dealing properly with a 12-13 y.o. like Kauriki given the state of today’s psychological science then WTF. My point is NOT whether or not we do it now, my point is whether or not we are capable of doing that.

    And clearly we should be. And if it’s not working then FFS change it till it does. Perhaps a good start would be eliminating with extreme prejudice all the bleeding hearts everywhere in the system as that attitude is 100% certain to prevent success. However it’s done, do it.

    That’s my point. I refuse to accept this country isn’t CAPABLE of getting the job done. Whether or not it IS done now, is NOT my point.

    I’m also fine with removing kids at birth from unfit parents. Do whatever it takes. I don’t care what it is. Just make it happen.

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  91. Tookinator (221 comments) says:

    The mother of ‘this boy’ is stupid enough to post her cell no on Facebook: 027 716 5545 for anyone interested…

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  92. Tauhei Notts (1,724 comments) says:

    Nasska,
    I read your post of 6.10 p.m. yesterday.
    I have thought about what you wrote.
    Your post is an appalling criticism of our main stream media.
    The worst part about what you wrote is that what you wrote is 100% correct.
    It is inarguable!
    ……………………………..
    to Messrs Farrar and Slater, together with Miss Cactus Kate; a big thank you. And Cactus, I think of you every time I drive along Tower Road.

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  93. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Tauhei

    The state of the MSM worries me greatly.

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  94. Griff (7,808 comments) says:

    nasska
    The present push for more restrictions on the web worries much more than the state of MSM .
    TV, News Papers, Radio are only five second sound bytes for those oblivious to the world around them.
    The web
    ts the ability to find information out from not only a verity of sources but the entire story from all angles. all information at your fingertips.
    Copy write control is the start of a long slippery slope towards censored content,. or subverted to the needs of the corporate few.

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  95. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Griff

    Yes…..the internet has caused problems for those who would restrict information. Copyright if enforced to a draconian extent will tighten up sources of information. It’s worth noting, however, that the nature of the beast that is the internet will make it very hard to rein in.

    It’s the sheer number of people acting the roles that used to be the preserve of reporters that may yet save the day.

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  96. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Where’s Mikey?? He went went very quiet after you posted that link which quoted the Parole Board on little Bailey…thank you Nasska…

    The reality is these guys get tutored on how to present to the Parole Board …and “the Parole Board” is a bit like “the High Court” – it can be different people on different days. Just as every lawyer will tell you there is an “A” and “B” team on the High Court (but only strictly off the record – all Judges are equal old boy) the perspicacity of differently constituted Parole Bords will differ.

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  97. rouppe (971 comments) says:

    @wreck1080

    As I said, standing around watching isn’t enough for party liability.

    But if the evidence was that the 12 year old brought her father (or older brother, or cousins, whatever) around because of a dispute that the 12-year old was having with the person, and it could be shown (or reaonably inferred) that the 14-year old was standing there shouting “get him, dad, get him! Punch him good, dad!” then I would vote for guilty as a party.

    Getting back to Raurangi Marino… Nothing he did could be reasonably excused as an accident. It is not reasonable to say that because he was abused as a kid, that he could think that going expressly into someone else’s caravan and assaulting and raping a person there could be thought of as “normal”.

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  98. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    What a noble Maori warrior that young man is.

    Vomit.

    He was a piece of shit on Friday, and NEWSFLASH he’s still a piece of shit on Monday. May his death in jail be both frightening and miserable.

    Sad to see some of the rest of the Whanau are apparently cut from similar cloth…

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