General Debate 12 April 2012

April 12th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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146 Responses to “General Debate 12 April 2012”

  1. Elaycee (4,410 comments) says:

    I see that Joris De Bres has been on the radio this morning expressing his concern about the racist comments made against Pat Lam. And with good reason – Lam has been the subject of a backlash because the Blues have yet again failed to deliver on the footy field but some morons have taken the opportunity to vent their frustration at Lam via racist slurs.

    But roll the clock back…..

    Where was Joris when Hone Harawira was calling people ‘white mofo’s’? Didn’t he say at the time: “It is a free country but people who have positions of responsibility.. should also exercise their responsibility appropriately.”

    Is this the same Joris De Bres who expressed outrage when Paul Holmes uttered the (infamous) reference about a ‘cheeky darkie’? And this is the same Joris De Bres who today expressed concern about racist comments directed at Lam?

    But he was somehow ‘OK’ with the ‘mofo’ comments made by Hone Harawira…..

    It would appear that Joris De Bres has many sets of rules.

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  2. nasska (11,813 comments) says:

    ….”It would appear that Joris De Bres has many sets of rules.”……

    And a face to go with each.

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  3. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Question:
    Is saying “It is a free country but people who have positions of responsibility.. should also exercise their responsibility appropriately” the same as saying “OK”?

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  4. Elaycee (4,410 comments) says:

    @milkmilo: What did De Bres do about Hone calling white New Zealanders ‘mofo’s’? He was quoted at the time that he would “aid and continue to monitor the situation”. Joris also said that Hone’s comments “weren’t actually illegal under the Act”..

    His inaction, coupled with his comment that the term was not ‘illegal’ was tacit ‘approval’… and that’s why I suggested he was ‘OK’ with it.

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  5. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    http://whoar.co.nz/2012/5-economic-alternatives-to-the-cult-of-gdp/

    “…It’s hardly controversial to suggest that economic growth has been closely tied to cheap and readily available fossil fuels and other natural resources.

    But as we start to comprehend the twin facts that oil is likely to become ever harder and more resource intensive to come by – and that the Earth and its atmosphere does not have a limitless capacity to absorb the crap we pour into it –

    – the cult of economic growth at all costs starts to look a little shaky.

    True, some people argue that between dematerialization of our economy and a massive scale up of renewables – it is perfectly possible to pursue green growth for the foreseeable future –

    – but others are arguing it’s time to move to a post-growth society.

    Either way, it seems incontrovertible to suggest that measuring our well-being by Gross Domestic Product (GDP) alone is about as helpful as assessing someone’s diet based entirely on how much they eat —

    – and with the assumption that the more they eat – the better off they’ll be.

    Luckily, there are plenty of alternatives to the cult of GDP.

    Here are a few of our favorites…”

    phillip ure@whoar.co.nz

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  6. David Garrett (7,565 comments) says:

    No Mikey, it’s not….so having answered yours, you answer this:

    Are racist slurs aimed at white people – such as those uttered constantly by Harawira – any more acceptable than those against ‘people of colour’ (which appears to be the currently acceptable term?)? And if the answer to that is “No”…

    Is there any basis for de Bres reacting differently depending on the race of those slurred?

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  7. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Question to lawyer commentators’ here.

    Obama, supposedly a top law graduate from Harvard , never managed to score a job in any other law firms apart from the firm of where his wife (Michelle) was working at? They offered him a job. I thought that Harvard law graduates don’t have problems in getting job offers from any law firm. Did he really go to law school as has been told by the media? Or perhaps he never went to law school thus explaining why he couldn’t apply for a job in any law firms apart from the law firm where Michelle used to work? Apparently Obama never represented any case for his law firm, apart from writing memos to other partners in his law firm. Strange!

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  8. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    Freind of mine trying to get across to Great barrier this morning. There is a huge Allied truck/trailer wedged on the ramp holding up everybody.
    Got a photo on his facebook, but dunno if it be OK to post it here…

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  9. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    About Pat Lam.

    What was actually said, what were those racist comments?
    I find it hard to comment on this without having the facts.

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  10. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    News in today, that “Roger”, the head of the CIA Counter Terrorism Unit, is a Muslim.
    Maybe he is doing a good job, but that just doesn’t seem smart to me…

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  11. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    David
    I would expect the Race Relations Commissioner to condemn racism in any form. All I’d point out though is that he is a commissioner, not a policeman.

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  12. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    NASA scientists finally coming around to protesting NASA’s stance on so-called climate change.

    March 28, 2012

    The Honorable Charles Bolden, Jr.
    NASA Administrator
    NASA Headquarters
    Washington, D.C. 20546-0001

    Dear Charlie,

    We, the undersigned, respectfully request that NASA and the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) refrain from including unproven remarks in public releases and websites. We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated, especially when considering thousands of years of empirical data. With hundreds of well-known climate scientists and tens of thousands of other scientists publicly declaring their disbelief in the catastrophic forecasts, coming particularly from the GISS leadership, it is clear that the science is NOT settled.

    The unbridled advocacy of CO2 being the major cause of climate change is unbecoming of NASA’s history of making an objective assessment of all available scientific data prior to making decisions or public statements.

    As former NASA employees, we feel that NASA’s advocacy of an extreme position, prior to a thorough study of the possible overwhelming impact of natural climate drivers is inappropriate. We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject. At risk is damage to the exemplary reputation of NASA, NASA’s current or former scientists and employees, and even the reputation of science itself.

    For additional information regarding the science behind our concern, we recommend that you contact Harrison Schmitt or Walter Cunningham, or others they can recommend to you.

    Thank you for considering this request.

    Sincerely,

    (Attached signatures)

    CC: Mr. John Grunsfeld, Associate Administrator for Science
    CC: Ass Mr. Chris Scolese, Director, Goddard Space Flight Center
    Ref: Letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden, dated 3-26-12, regarding a request for NASA to refrain from making unsubstantiated claims that human produced CO2 is having a catastrophic impact on climate change.
    /s/ Jack Barneburg, Jack – JSC, Space Shuttle Structures, Engineering Directorate, 34 years
    /s/ Larry Bell – JSC, Mgr. Crew Systems Div., Engineering Directorate, 32 years
    /s/ Dr. Donald Bogard – JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 41 years
    /s/ Jerry C. Bostick – JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 23 years
    /s/ Dr. Phillip K. Chapman – JSC, Scientist – astronaut, 5 years
    /s/ Michael F. Collins, JSC, Chief, Flight Design and Dynamics Division, MOD, 41 years
    /s/ Dr. Kenneth Cox – JSC, Chief Flight Dynamics Div., Engr. Directorate, 40 years
    /s/ Walter Cunningham – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 7, 8 years
    /s/ Dr. Donald M. Curry – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Leading Edge, Thermal Protection Sys., Engr. Dir., 44 years
    /s/ Leroy Day – Hdq. Deputy Director, Space Shuttle Program, 19 years
    /s/ Dr. Henry P. Decell, Jr. – JSC, Chief, Theory & Analysis Office, 5 years
    /s/Charles F. Deiterich – JSC, Mgr., Flight Operations Integration, MOD, 30 years
    /s/ Dr. Harold Doiron – JSC, Chairman, Shuttle Pogo Prevention Panel, 16 years
    /s/ Charles Duke – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 16, 10 years
    /s/ Anita Gale
    /s/ Grace Germany – JSC, Program Analyst, 35 years
    /s/ Ed Gibson – JSC, Astronaut Skylab 4, 14 years
    /s/ Richard Gordon – JSC, Astronaut, Gemini Xi, Apollo 12, 9 years
    /s/ Gerald C. Griffin – JSC, Apollo Flight Director, and Director of Johnson Space Center, 22 years
    /s/ Thomas M. Grubbs – JSC, Chief, Aircraft Maintenance and Engineering Branch, 31 years
    /s/ Thomas J. Harmon
    /s/ David W. Heath – JSC, Reentry Specialist, MOD, 30 years
    /s/ Miguel A. Hernandez, Jr. – JSC, Flight crew training and operations, 3 years
    /s/ James R. Roundtree – JSC Branch Chief, 26 years
    /s/ Enoch Jones – JSC, Mgr. SE&I, Shuttle Program Office, 26 years
    /s/ Dr. Joseph Kerwin – JSC, Astronaut, Skylab 2, Director of Space and Life Sciences, 22 years
    /s/ Jack Knight – JSC, Chief, Advanced Operations and Development Division, MOD, 40 years
    /s/ Dr. Christopher C. Kraft – JSC, Apollo Flight Director and Director of Johnson Space Center, 24 years
    /s/ Paul C. Kramer – JSC, Ass.t for Planning Aeroscience and Flight Mechanics Div., Egr. Dir., 34 years
    /s/ Alex (Skip) Larsen
    /s/ Dr. Lubert Leger – JSC, Ass’t. Chief Materials Division, Engr. Directorate, 30 years
    /s/ Dr. Humbolt C. Mandell – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Program Control and Advance Programs, 40 years
    /s/ Donald K. McCutchen – JSC, Project Engineer – Space Shuttle and ISS Program Offices, 33 years
    /s/ Thomas L. (Tom) Moser – Hdq. Dep. Assoc. Admin. & Director, Space Station Program, 28 years
    /s/ Dr. George Mueller – Hdq., Assoc. Adm., Office of Space Flight, 6 years
    /s/ Tom Ohesorge
    /s/ James Peacock – JSC, Apollo and Shuttle Program Office, 21 years
    /s/ Richard McFarland – JSC, Mgr. Motion Simulators, 28 years
    /s/ Joseph E. Rogers – JSC, Chief, Structures and Dynamics Branch, Engr. Directorate,40 years
    /s/ Bernard J. Rosenbaum – JSC, Chief Engineer, Propulsion and Power Division, Engr. Dir., 48 years
    /s/ Dr. Harrison (Jack) Schmitt – JSC, Astronaut Apollo 17, 10 years
    /s/ Gerard C. Shows – JSC, Asst. Manager, Quality Assurance, 30 years
    /s/ Kenneth Suit – JSC, Ass’t Mgr., Systems Integration, Space Shuttle, 37 years
    /s/ Robert F. Thompson – JSC, Program Manager, Space Shuttle, 44 years/s/ Frank Van Renesselaer – Hdq., Mgr. Shuttle Solid Rocket Boosters, 15 years
    /s/ Dr. James Visentine – JSC Materials Branch, Engineering Directorate, 30 years
    /s/ Manfred (Dutch) von Ehrenfried – JSC, Flight Controller; Mercury, Gemini & Apollo, MOD, 10 years
    /s/ George Weisskopf – JSC, Avionics Systems Division, Engineering Dir., 40 years
    /s/ Al Worden – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 15, 9 years
    /s/ Thomas (Tom) Wysmuller – JSC, Meteorologist, 5 years

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  13. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Falafulu
    Please, please continue on your Obama conspiracy kick, it really is superb entertainment.

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  14. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Fletch
    What a great list – I see there appear to be some scientists on it. I’m wondering how many of them have published their research on climate change in peer-reviewed journals.

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  15. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    mikenmild, I didn’t say they were experts on climate change. They are scientists who can see (as can anyone) that the science is NOT settled as regards climate change, and do not want NASAs image tarnished. And who can blame them.

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  16. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    I suggest 2+2=5
    Anybody commenting on this, make sure you have at least a Phd in Mathematics and have published research on this in peer-reviewed journals.

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  17. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Obama is called a law professor. Did this guy earn a PhD? Can professorship in law be given to someone who doesn’t have a PhD? Any take on this from AG (Andrew Geddis) and other law academics? It seems usual, because to be professorship (in say a branch of Science & Engineering) one must have years of experience in R&D/teaching/theoretical-research. Obama, seemed to have done none of that at all. I believe that the term law professor was invented by the media to make Obama appeal to the naive voters, thinking that the guy is smart. I have come across on the net, that there have been correction to the professorship title for Obama, saying that it was misleading because he never was a professor of law. If that’s true, that makesense because the guy never did any research at all as usually done in other academic disciplines.

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  18. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Mikemild, I here to entertain you on Obama. What’s the problem? If you don’t like it, then scroll past my post, its easy. Besides, this is a general debate thread.

    Finally, what’s conspiracy about facts? Did you see the video on Obama’s electronic birth certificate? What’s conspiracy about it?

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  19. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    Falafulu, I posted a link on this the other day. Obama never was a law professor. He was merely an “instructor”

    According to Doug Ross:

    I spent some time with the highest tenured faculty member at Chicago Law a few months back, and he did not have many nice things to say about “Barry.” Obama applied for a position as an adjunct and wasn’t even considered. A few weeks later the law school got a phone call from the Board of Trustees telling them to find him an office, put him on the payroll, and give him a class to teach. The Board told him he didn’t have to be a member of the faculty, but they needed to give him a temporary position. He was never a professor and was hardly an adjunct.

    The other professors hated him because he was lazy, unqualified, never attended any of the faculty meetings, and it was clear that the position was nothing more than a political stepping stool. According to my professor friend, he had the lowest intellectual capacity in the building. He also doubted whether he was legitimately an editor on the Harvard Law Review, because if he was, he would be the first and only editor of an Ivy League law review to never be published while in school (publication is or was a requirement).

    https://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-national/investigation-reveals-numerous-bogus-claims-on-obama-resume

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  20. Keeping Stock (10,443 comments) says:

    Some people love it and some people hate it. But there’s no denying the power of Twitter as a means of commincation when something major happens such as the earthquake off Aceh last night. The reports coming in via Twitter left the MSM for dead, and Granny Herald took over half an hour to rise from her nanna nap.

    Social media beat the “old media hands-down last night:

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/04/power-of-twitter.html

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  21. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    i see that key is going to indonesia next week…

    ..funny story..!..

    ..david cameron was just there…and the indonesian vice-president told him that indonesia also used to have a ‘wrecked-economy’..like britain..

    ..and he then proceeded to lay out the formula of how they fixed their ‘broken-economy’..

    ..and here’s the funny bit..

    ..hs prescription was about the direct opposite of what cameron..and other tory/neo-lib politicians..like key… are doing..

    ..i hope key also gets a lecture…and listens..

    http://whoar.co.nz/2012/david-cameron-gets-told-how-to-fix-his-wrecked-economy-and-as-it-turns-out-it-is-the-exact-opposite-to-the-policies-being-pursued-by-cameron-and-other-neo-lib-politicians-worldwide-includin/

    phillip ure@whoar.co.nz

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  22. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    ps. from the linked site –

    I saw a note slide across the #TCOT feed on Twitter last night that mentioned Michelle Obama had no law license. This struck me as odd, since(a) she went to school to be a lawyer, and (b) she just recently held a position with the University of Chicago Hospitals as legal counsel – and that’s a pretty hard job to qualify for without a law license. But being a licensed professional myself, I knew that every state not only requires licensure, they make it possible to check online the status of any licensed professional.

    So I did, and here’s the results from the ARDC Website: She “voluntarily surrendered” her license in 1993. Let me explain what that means. A “Voluntary Surrender” is not something where you decide “Gee, a license is not really something I need anymore, is it?” and forget to renew your license. No, a “Voluntary Surrender” is something you do when you’ve been accused of something, and you “voluntarily surrender” your license five seconds before the state suspends you.

    The more we learn about these people in the Whitehouse, the worse it is looking…

    OK, that’s my Obama bashing for today ;)

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  23. iMP (2,422 comments) says:

    Tut tutting about racist comments at an official government level is ridiculous, and Joris de Bres is arbitrary and inconsistent. The whole office is a joke and should be scrapped as a cost-saving. “Race Relations Conciliator” -sounds like some Goebbels would invent.

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  24. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    fletch…did you have an authoritarian dad…who didn’t like homosexuals…?

    phillip ure@whoar.co.nz

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  25. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Phil, may be you should ask Obama of what he thinks about homosexuals.

    Tag: Humor

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  26. David Garrett (7,565 comments) says:

    Falafulu: I will attempt to answer your question…though now I realise the august Andrew Geddis is AG I dont really feel worthy..something with which he always agreed, but I digress..

    It is indeed unusual for Harvard Law grads not to get a job in one of the prestigious US firms, although if you were planning an academic career based on a Harvard undergraduate degree then you would of necessity seek degrees at Masters and doctoral levels. It appears Obama did not.

    The term “professor” in US universities – at least in most of them, Geddis is better placed than me to know – is largely meaningless, which is definitely not the case here. Any senior lecturer in the US can, as I understand it, be called a “professor” and that term is not dependent on a publishing history or the esteem of ones peers, which is the case here, and to an even greater extent, in the UK.

    That of course makes the fact that Obama was …what was it? An associate or teaching fellow or something? even more unusual.

    All of that said, I don’t give a rats rectum whether he was truly born in Hawaii or whether he has a law degree or not. The world managed to survive the most dangerous post war period under the stewardship of a former screen actor – and not a very good one – who had no tertiary education at all if I recall correctly. Why on earth are you – and everyone else – so hugely concerned about Obama’s background?

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  27. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    David Garret, it is his deception that’s alarming. US policies will mostly affect everyone else in the world (including us down here in NZ), whether it is military or economic power. We can start to see the devastating effects of his policies (economics) today.

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  28. nasska (11,813 comments) says:

    David Garrett

    …”Why on earth are you – and everyone else – so hugely concerned about Obama’s background?”…..

    Largely because so little is actually known about him & less is verifiable. It’s a given that anyone seeking the office of POS is going to manage the skeletons in his closet & shout his attributes from the rooftops. In Obama’s case he came from nowhere to derail Hilary Clinton’s campaign & it seems, from a layman’s point of view, that every trail leading back to his early life ends in a dead end, a PR orgy or a roadblock.

    It’s almost as if he was an item that was manufactured & placed in office.

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  29. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    gee..fisi…hard to know how to evaluate anything you post now..

    remember yesterday how you claimed a rabid rightwinger was actually a ‘committed-lefist’..

    ..and then used his words to pretend some some sort of leftie-conversion to the light/right…?

    ..w.t.f. was that about..?

    ..it was just total lying-bullshit..eh..?

    .and did you really think nobody here would know the history of dick morris..?

    ..and that you would get away with it..?

    ..all you have shown..is that you are best just ignored…

    ..and of course..such blatant dissembling also calls into question all you have said to now..

    ..and into the future..

    ..how can it not..?

    phillip ure@whoar.co.nz

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  30. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    It’s almost as if he was an item that was manufactured & placed in office.

    Many a true word spoken in jest, as they say.

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  31. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    “The world managed to survive the most dangerous post war period under the stewardship of a former screen actor – and not a very good one – who had no tertiary education at all if I recall correctly.”

    Correct. The only thing that counts is the number of votes, the voters decide who will be POTUS. Who cares if Obama is a professor or not, published any papers or actually did any work at Harvard. If the voters want a dud or a former actor without any tertairy education they are entitled to one.

    Reagan’s past was an open book, people knew exactly who he was.
    The past of most candidates who run for office is an open book.
    With Obama, it appears (now) not much is known and his ‘story’ was taken for granted by (most of) the public and given a pass by the MSM. Very unusual.
    The point is, did the voters get the person they voted for? Are all the claims made by Obama and his supporters about Obama’s past correct or were the voters deceived, misled?

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  32. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    nasska
    I could sum up your comment by simply saying that because lots of people have made all sorts of accusation about President Obama then there must be something to it. Fine, except there isn’t. For all the digging people have done, it is quite evident that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, went to the schools he said he did and is not a secret homosexual, communist or muslim.

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  33. alwyn (438 comments) says:

    David Garrett @9.12am
    You are presumbably referring to Ronald Reagan. If so then you are NOT recalling correctly.
    Reagan had a bachelors degree in Economics from Eureka college in Illinois. The only American President since 1900 without a degree was Harry Truman.
    Incidentally Keith Holyoake finished his formal education at the age of 12. He was later described by Henry Laing, certainly one of the most intellectually gifted of our Treasury Sectretaries as the “smartest man in New Zealand”. Formal education may help but it isn’t essential.
    Also, oddly enough, David Shearer appears to be the third Labour in a row who can probably put the phrase “Failed PhD” in their academic record. Both Helen Clark and Phil Goff started PhDs at Ackland and I saw the other day a statement from Rodney Hide that he was Shearer’s PhD supervisor. To the best of my knowledge none of them finished.

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  34. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    There is a little twerp who is a serial poster on this thread.

    This little twerp has had a few goes today and managed to insult/ mock a couple of reasonable people
    in his desperate quest to provoke a response.

    He is desperate because as a totally useless article he cannot stand being ignored.
    It eats at his guts due to the overinflated ego he has had to develop in order he can maintain some self esteem.

    Being ignored reinforces the notion that he is absolutely totally useless.

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  35. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Mikemild, you remembered the disgraced former Maori TV CEO John Davies who had falsified his CV? Lets say that you were a Maori TV board member at the time. Lets say that someone came forward & made a claim to your board that this John Davies was giving you a fraudulent record in order for him to secure that position. He was revealing to you that Mr Davies had manufactured his records (work history, education background and so forth). What would you have done? Dismissed the claims by Mr Davies accusers out of hand or you should do your job & look into it? With that mentality that you have shown here for your love for Obama, tells me that you would have done nothing to verify the claims made against Mr Davies. You deserved to be sacked from the board.

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  36. Keeping Stock (10,443 comments) says:

    @ bereal: don’t feed the troll. It craves attention, so starving it is the best course of action.

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  37. adze (2,129 comments) says:

    I see Fuimaono-Sapolu, the firebrand tweeting rugby star from Manu Samoa has weighed in on the Pat Lam racism business. What a pity he couldn’t refrain from indulging in some borderline racism himself; it supports my personal suspicion that those who protest the most loudly about racism often tend to harbour unacknowledged chauvinistic views themselves.

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  38. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Adze, Pat Lam is an idiot. Not PC says it better.

    The race card can be awfully convenient sometimes, can’t it

    I went to see the Blues game at Eden Park against the Hurricanes about 3 weeks ago and it was a disappointment in the last minute. Their latest result from last week, meant that I won’t be going to the game tomorrow at Eden Park. Pat Lam is pathetic in trying to deflect his poor coaching by playing the race card.

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  39. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    So what was said Falafulu?
    What are the ‘facts’ about this incident?
    Doesn’t Pat have a case?

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  40. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Falafulu
    The difference in the Maori TV case was that John Davies had a fraudulent CV; Obama has not. Davies’s fraud was easily discovered.
    Re Pat Lam, he is in a no-win situation. He was clearly upset by the racist comments, coming when he is aloready under pressure. It’d be nice if could just ignore it, but he didn’t.

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  41. flipper (4,231 comments) says:

    Alwyn (9.56am) …..
    Interesting comment and relevant.

    Holyoake was the master of keeping Government plans to himself – unless you knew the code – until he wanted info released.
    So many Radio NZ/NZBS reporters (including the much vaunted Edwards and Walker, but excepting David Inglis) never bothered to learn (or ignored) Kiwi’s code.
    He was famous for his “no present proposals” comment which hid a multitude of meanings/timings et al.

    Spin doctors? NONE!

    Henry Laing (also a former financial controller of Warner Brothers, was he not?) also applied a similar description to Robert David Muldoon (listen to the howls!) after Muldoon had demolished Robert McNamara (to our collective benefit) over world bank loan issues.

    Muldoon neither had, nor needed a BS Phud!

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  42. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    Pat Lam is pathetic in trying to deflect his poor coaching by playing the race card.

    I agree. The guy’s just making excuses. Andy Dalton should be the first to go, followed by Lam. Today preferably.

    But I’m past caring. Rugby’s terminally ill imo, in many ways analagous to an over-regulated economy. I’ve long since switched codes.

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  43. Keeping Stock (10,443 comments) says:

    I disagree Scott; Lam has said he’s quite happy to answer questions about the Blues’ performance. But if the people who have been ringing Michael Laws this morning are any indication, it’s little wonder that Pat Lam got upset yesterday.

    I have met Pat Lam a couple of times, and he is one of the most decent blokes you could want to meet. He doesn’t avoid hard questions, and is completely honest and open. He is intelligent and articulate, and gives proper answers, not grunts, monosyllabic answers or John Mitchell-like waffle. No-one will be more disappointed about the Blues’ performances this season than him.

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  44. bc (1,377 comments) says:

    Falafulu, you are like a stuck record (or modern varaiation – skipping CD??). This Obama obsession is like looney-tunes stalker stuff.

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  45. thedavincimode (6,877 comments) says:

    milky handwringer thingy

    Its not about the CV as you well no. Its the fraud which is all that Fala is on about.

    Personally, I hope he’s right. It would be very very funny. Funnier even than Winston’s possum impression when he was caught in the headlights of the Glenn business, top lip sweating like a rapist, eyes spinning and absolutely nothing happening in the back room beneath the coiff.

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  46. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    he [Lam] is one of the most decent blokes you could want to meet. He doesn’t avoid hard questions, and is completely honest and open. He is intelligent and articulate, and gives proper answers, not grunts, monosyllabic answers or John Mitchell-like waffle.

    That’s beside the point. You’re either a good coach or you aren’t. Lam isn’t imo.

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  47. Keeping Stock (10,443 comments) says:

    That’s fine Scott, and Lam won’t shy away from questions about his coaching record or ability. But for people to suggest that the reason he’s a failure as a coach is because of his ethnicity is bollocks IMHO

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  48. thedavincimode (6,877 comments) says:

    KS

    He may be the nicest guy on the planet but he still hasn’t got a clue what he’s on about. He is indecisive, unable to formulate a coherent strategy, impulsive and simply unable to gel an individually talented team. Ultimately, I think he is more of a dreamer than a realist. How many times have we heard the piffle about the boys being down but they’ve worked hard and we know what we have to work on blah blah blah …..

    He has had too long without delivering and has to go. His time was up when they dumped Howarth. If anyone thinks that’s tough, look at what’s been achieved in Otago and Wellington this year.

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  49. Pete George (23,687 comments) says:

    But for people to suggest that the reason he’s a failure as a coach is because of his ethnicity is bollocks IMHO

    I haven’t seen the attacks, but from what I’ve heard it’s been nasty. It’s a sad fact of life that when the crowd turns on someone they can get vicious and use anything to try and hurt their target. Some people just seem to be like that. It’s important to stand up against that sort of abuse.

    I never even considered Lam’s ethnicity when considering his coaching and think it odd that people would, I thought he was New Zealander, and from a distance seems like a decent sort of a bloke.

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  50. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    The chickens are comming home to roost for Barry Obama and his cook.

    Sheriff Joe is on the case…..

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57388911-503544/sheriff-joe-arpaio-suggests-obamas-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/

    You don’t mess with Sheriff Joe.

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  51. DJP6-25 (1,389 comments) says:

    Fletch 8:55am. That’s interesting, but not surprising. Let’s hope Justice begin asking 0bama, his former cabinet, and ACORN a lot of embarrassing questions from Janusry 21st 2013. Congress needs to act to restore public faith in government.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  52. Pete George (23,687 comments) says:

    Trevor Mallard has posted a cartoon at Red Alert suggesting that calling a spade a spade will get you done for defamation.

    So I called a spade a spade – and seem to have been censored. Is Trevor afraid of real spades?

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  53. Keeping Stock (10,443 comments) says:

    I don’t disagree davinci, and I doubt that he’ll get another year with the Blues. He’s a professional coach, and gets judged on his results; that’s the reality of professional sport. But the entire Blues set-up seems to be inept, from the Board down

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  54. grumpyoldhori (2,362 comments) says:

    bereal oh great sherif joe and his deputy dawgs versus the secret service.
    My money would be on the secret service.
    As for joe, a small mistake of targeting by the CIA with a Hellfire missile would fix that southern loudness.

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  55. 3-coil (1,222 comments) says:

    Mark Hammet apparently couldn’t get the best out of his Polynesian players in the Hurricanes because he was accused of being too “pakeha” and couldn’t relate to their island values, flair etc etc.

    Pat Lam imports the same problem players from the Hurricanes into the Blues and is now floundering at the bottom of the table with a dud team. Did Lam figure that he would be able to get the best out of them, because he (being from a Pacific cultural background) could relate to their values etc etc?

    The results of the Hurricanes and Blues so far this season would indicate that Lam is no better, in fact he’s worse, than Hammet at getting these guys to perform.

    But at least we never had to endure Hammet blubbing on TV that the racist criticism of his coaching was all too much – when you don’t have a race card to play, Hammet just had to knuckle down and do the hard work. And the result is there for all to see on the points table.

    Edit: didn’t Pat Lam have even the slightest hesitation when Weepu’s parting shot to his hometeam Hurricanes was “I’m just looking after No.1″ – showing no loyalty to his team at all. I thought rugby was a team game.

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  56. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Ok grumpyoldhori but,

    You need to factor in that the USA is a free society that respects the rule of law.
    Under their law Joe is just as equal as Barry.

    Anyway we will see… U N i arguing the toss wont matter.

    Point is.. there is no better system ……….. if u disagree, OK then name the better one.

    ( i’m not suggesting that you believe there is a better system.)

    i think that, in the long run, Barry will be found out.

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  57. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    In the 70 s i had a lot of time for the black liberation movement in the USA . i was and am a believer in equal rights. One man, one vote.

    i was moved by Dr Martin Luther King Jnr and even the Black Panthers of those days.

    i read ‘Seize the Time,” Bobby Searle and had time for Huey Newton.

    But, what the fuck on earth are Al Sharpton et al on about now over Travon Martin ?

    How does this relate to New Zealand ? Let me suggest…
    Is it sumsing like.

    We think youse took our land, doesn’t matter how much you pay us back, now you owe us for
    the rest of all our lives, you can never satisfy us. We’ve got you now….

    And as a result of that we can now sit on our arse and bludge off you for the rest of our lives.

    And guess what, self hating apologists like mikenmild and Luc Hansen and Scott Chris will support us.

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  58. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    I’m sure you have a point in mind there bereal, but I’m not sure I can discern it exactly.

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  59. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Well i never.

    mikenmild can’t discern the point.

    Now there is a big suprise……

    Maybe if i coloured it in for you little mikenmild.

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  60. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Remember bereal, you are the ‘little’ one…

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  61. Pete George (23,687 comments) says:

    Something I agree with Winston Peters on:

    New Zealand First leader Winston Peters said his party had not discussed the bill, which was drawn out of the private members ballot last week, and neither National nor the bill’s sponsor had discussed it with him.

    “What is happening is government through media columns. It actually does not work in practice.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10798356

    There seems to be an expectation by some to deal with everything by media instead of using parliamentary process.

    (This is related but different to Bill English ignoring parliamentary process to decide the outcome of bills before they have even been in the house.)

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  62. thedavincimode (6,877 comments) says:

    Maybe if you stopped spilling the port into your keyboard – are the keys sticking together? Perhaps what’s coming out isn’t what you think is going in???!!!

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  63. Pete George (23,687 comments) says:

    And Trevor either doesn’t see his hypocrisy, or doesn’t give a stuff about shutting other people’s speech down while he complains about having his own “spade calling” threatened.

    He’s admitted blocking my first post, censored my next two and banned me for two weeks.

    http://yournz.org/2012/04/12/is-trevor-mallard-afraid-of-spades/ (edited)

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  64. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    Fletch
    Were the hell did u manage to scrape up such a list of old fogies
    Shit I am almost fifty and can nearly remember the space race
    Your list has persons who were in their prime in the sixties
    Alt science nutters desperate for some real relevance scraping the barrel now :smile:

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  65. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Now there is an interesting thing.

    You have a shithead,
    one who has a smartarse word ready to put any other correspondent down,
    and therefore put himmself up (in his mind) at the drop of a hat…. eh!! duh…… eh…..

    But where is he? Never before missed out for longer than 45 mins….

    Maybe he has gone out to dinner with sumcunt…but who pays….?

    Where is the magpie ?

    Speak up monkey speak……..

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  66. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    Griff, those “old fogies” did the real work for NASA (before it became a Muslim outreach under Obama). As such, no wonder they are pissed…

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  67. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    Today marks the THIRD time the Obama Administration has released secrets concerning Israel and its movements. The man is a traitor to his own country and allies.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/04/11/Obama-Leak-Israel-Iran

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  68. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Fletch
    LOL. You excel yourself – NASA a ‘Muslim outreach’!!!

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  69. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    It’s probably not treason to release information with the aim of preventing an Israeli attack on Iran…

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  70. thedavincimode (6,877 comments) says:

    Goodness me, what brought that on?

    Ground Control to Major Tom …

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  71. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    NASA Administrator Charles Bolden told Al Jazeera that President Obama told him before he took the job that he wanted him to do three things: inspire children to learn math and science, expand international relationships and “perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science … and math and engineering.”

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  72. thedavincimode (6,877 comments) says:

    Other_Andy

    Classic. What an arrogant patronising git.

    Did the muzzies expect that “reach” to be effected with solid fuel propellant?

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  73. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    You Alties do know that the muslims were advanced in the period that we call the dark ages.
    Inspiring kids to learn math and science makes a change from dissuading teachers from teaching science as you alt science weirdos like to do. Why do you not migrate to teenesee, they teach alt science there legally now.

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  74. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    Dear TVNZ News – George Zimmerman is not “white” – he is Mexican…

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  75. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    mikenmild – from the man’s own lips –

    “NASA Administrator Charles Bolden created a firestorm after telling Al Jazeera in June 2010 that President Obama told him before he took the job that he wanted him to do three things:

    1 – inspire children to learn math and science
    2 – expand international relationships and
    3 – ‘perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science … and math and engineering.’

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  76. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Now i know that Griff was trying hard to say sumsing @ 6.22

    Thing is…….

    Can anyone tell us what it was,,,,,,,, ?

    Who can translate ?

    Griff… have a go….
    we know you must be trying to say sumsing…….

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  77. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Fletch

    It seems to depend on which channel you are watching. I can tell you HE thinks he is a white american.

    That’s what counts, for him and an innocent 17 yo kid.

    He’s been changed with 2nd degree murder but even that is a travesty. He hunted that boy down.

    Premeditated murder, pure and simple.

    If it was a black man and a white boy, I tell you, most times, the case wouldn’t have got near a courtroom – the black man would have been shot while his hands were in the air!

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  78. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    You on the piss again beryl ?
    Smoke pot…dude, it’ll make you less uptight!.

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  79. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    OMG 3.43
    pull their chain””……………..
    There they are …
    Luc rises to the bait just like a ………………….
    that he is.

    Why do these people, like Luc Hansen and Griff hate their own guts….?

    What did your dad do to you Luc ? What about you Griff /

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  80. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    No fletch, according to the US LMS, Zimmerman is a ‘white Hispanic’. The white part is necessary so the race-hustlers (Jackson, Sharpton, Wright and Obama) to stir up the masses. Have you ever heard Obama referred to as a ‘White African American’? Whatever….
    The usual suspects have also pointed out that Zimmerman is actually a Jewish name.
    Jewish and white, trumps the hispanic race card anytime.

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  81. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    Luc, no one really knows the facts in the case yet. The police let him go to begin with. Zimmerman says he was attacked first, and news reports show a gash on the back of his head, where he claims Trayvon was smacking his head against the pavement.

    http://www.komonews.com/news/national/Enhanced-video–145798735.html?abc=uZuwhJls

    We just don’t know yet.

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  82. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    Ewww…

    Australian airline Qantas has apologized to a mom who found maggots crawling through her food on a flight from the US.

    http://bit.ly/HQ1kgw

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  83. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Sorry Fletch, but the only reason you don’t know the facts is because you are watching white TV channels – Fox News, perhaps?

    Try Democracynow.org. They have extensive coverage of the Martin killing and the Chamberlain killing (a black ex-Marine who was killed when his medic=alert bracelet was accidentally triggered)…and others equally horrific that we don’t hear about down here.

    Just go and seek the truth instead of listening to the Bill O’Reilly’s, the Sean Hannity’s et al of this world. Bigots, one and all!

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  84. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Smoke more dope….

    that is the answer you could expect from the likes of Griff and his mates.

    No Griff, You smoke more dope…

    One day even you will wake up…….Griff…
    Wont be soon but take my word for it,, even a fuckwit like you will wake up one day,,

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  85. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    I thought that fat lying fucktard Breitbart had died and gone to hell!

    Is that scum-sucking blog being kept going by someone else?

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  86. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Why do they hate their own guts ?

    Luc or Griff

    Why do you hate yourself….. ?

    Is it,, do more drugs.. hate yourself more…
    if not … what is it …?

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  87. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    Luc, I call bullshit – the Left would like to make it a racist killing because they want to divide the country – Witness NBC’s altering the Trayvon tape to make it sound racist (the NBC producer was subsequently fired).

    In the NBC segment, Zimmerman says: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.”

    The full version, though, unfolds like this:

    Zimmerman: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.”

    911 operator: “Okay. And this guy, is he white black or Hispanic?”

    Zimmerman: “He looks black.”

    http://thelasttradition.blogspot.co.nz/2012/04/nbc-news-caught-of-editing-911-call-in.html

    Did we hear anything about ‘Tape-gate’ here? Of course not – that would spoil the progressive narrative. In my opinion there was nothing racist about the killing. Zimmerman may have been too overzealous in his Neighbourhood Watch patrol, but that’s about it. Of course i don’t agree with him killing anyone, but maybe it was self defense.

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  88. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    Racist Hispanic american Jew. Doris De Bres would be on his side Real minority status there :smile:

    It’s the stuff that we don’t yet know in this case that makes it interesting, Why is one random shooting in the USA making so much press?
    Some times people make lots of noise to try to cover up stench.

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  89. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Over zealous, but not racist, eh?

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  90. wat dabney (3,812 comments) says:

    I’m wondering how many of them have published their research on climate change in peer-reviewed journals.

    You are probably ignorant of the fact that one of the major revelations that came out of the Climategate scandal was how the alarmists “scientists” were conspiring to pervert the peer-review proces. I quote: “Kevin and I will keep them out somehow — even if we havse to redefine what the peer-review literature is!

    Just google for “climategate peer review process”

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  91. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Luc is fixated on race. The fact that Zimmerman didn’t even know that Martin was black when he followed him doesn’t matter. That race doesn’t have anything to do with this (Before the usual race-baiters made it so) doesn’t even cross his mind.
    He reads the NYT and watches CBS and they tell him that Zimmerman is a racist so it must be true.
    The fact that ‘whites’ are far more likely to be murdered by ‘blacks’ than vice versa, despite the latter comprising only 11-12% of the population and the fact that 94% of murdered ‘blacks’ are killed by other ‘blacks’ doesn’t matter.
    Facts don’t count, only the narrative.
    Whites are racists, especially white Americans.

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  92. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    As the blogger in my above links says, it’s not about Trayvon at all – it’s about race baiting.

    I have no doubt that NBC like other operatives for the Democrat Party see the Trayvon Martin case as a means to agitate people and work them into a frenzy so they can then harness all that energy for a drive to re-elect Obama. This is already happening on black radio stations across they country. They’re all beating the drums for Obama.

    IT’S NOT ABOUT TRAYVON, he’s just a tool to serve a greater purpose. And that purpose is four more years of Obama.

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  93. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    He is not a White Anglo Saxon Protestant MM So he can not be racist.

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  94. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Ha ha wat. What you are saying is that no research on climate is valid because of this alleged ‘perversion’. Perhaps it could be decided by who shouts the loudest?

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  95. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    A white TV channel?
    Are you serious Luc?
    Somehow I think you are.
    This is sad..

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  96. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Fletch

    The police also told the Zimmerman not to follow the boy.

    I can’t believe you are so fucking stupid. This is a case of a young kid executed in cold blood because of the color of his skin. Autopsy showed Martin was not on drugs. He was on the phone to his gf when he was shot – he was screaming for help.

    One good thing about the charge, the truth will see the light.

    I presume you will support Zimmerman regardless of the verdict.

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  97. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    @Fletch

    The inconvenient truth is that Zimmerman is actually a democrat.
    Don’t tell anybody because that spoils the narrative.
    Would have been so much better if he had been a racist Tea Bagger or Republican.
    Oh well, being half white and having a Jewish name makes up for that.

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  98. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    O-A

    Ok, you got me there.

    I should have said a Murdoch channel.

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  99. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Andy

    Do you think Trayvon Martin gives a shit who the racist bastard voted for?

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  100. Pete George (23,687 comments) says:

    IT’S NOT ABOUT TRAYVON, he’s just a tool to serve a greater purpose. And that purpose is four more years of Obama.

    That’s how crappy politics (and political comment) in the US has become – use anyone, dead or alive to promote a political conspiracy.

    I guess the same person who jacked up bogus birth certificates set Trayvon up to get himself killed to promote the illegitimate president.

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  101. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    Wat
    Climate gate emails were reviewed by both university’s, the USA govertment, the royal science society, and others. Not one of the reviews found any fault in the scientists, other than over reacting to alt scientist weirdos.
    You been wanking with watts again?

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  102. Put it away (2,880 comments) says:

    Hah, Kiwiblog’s number jew-hater Luc is concerned about racism. More proof you have to leave your sense of irony at the door when you become a leftist. Just place it on the ground next to your brain…

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  103. tom hunter (5,095 comments) says:

    Amazing how GD comments can be completely overlooked in a matter of just 7 days.:

    NOW HEAR THIS
    NOW HEAR THIS

    THIS IS A NARRATIVE DESTRUCTION EXERCISE.
    THE PROCESS WILL TAKE SLIGHTLY LESS THAN 1 MINUTE.

    THANK YOU

    “You will recall the incident of the beating of the black homeless man Sherman Ware on December 4, 2010 by the son of a Sanford police officer. The beating sparked outrage in the community but there were very few that stepped up to do anything about it. I would presume the inaction was because of the fact that he was homeless not because he was black.

    Do you know the individual who stepped up when no one else in the black community would? Do you know who spent tireless hours putting flyers on the cars of persons parked in the churches of the black community? Do you know who waited for the church-goers to get out of church so that he could hand them flyers in an attempt to organize the black community against this horrible miscarriage of justice? Do you know who helped organize the City Hall meeting on January 8, 2011 at Sanford City Hall??

    That person was GEORGE ZIMMERMAN.”

    – from a letter to Turner Clayton of the Seminole County NAACP written by “a concerned Zimmerman family member”

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  104. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Be quiet tom!
    You heard Luc.
    Zimmerman is a racist bastard!
    Why?
    Because he is eh…because he is white.
    (Well, at least half-white)

    Racist one-eyed bigots do not seem to see the irony.

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  105. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    You may be surprised to know this, Andy, but racism is not reserved for 100% ethnic Europeans.

    However, with your friend, Zimmerman, the plot thickens, courtesy of Democracy Now!:

    Defense Lawyer Drops Trayvon Martin Shooter George Zimmerman

    George Zimmerman, the Florida man who shot and killed the unarmed African-American teenager Trayvon Martin, has lost his defense team. On Tuesday, Zimmerman attorney Craig Sonner said he is withdrawing from the case because he is been unable to reach his client.
    Craig Sonner: “As of now, we are withdrawing as counsel for Mr. Zimmerman. We have lost contact with him. Up to this point, we’ve had contact every day. He has gone on his own. I’m not sure what he’s doing or who he’s talking to, but at this point we’re withdrawing as counsel.”
    Although he’s been out of contact with his attorneys, Zimmerman has launched a public effort to defend himself, launching a website for his legal fund and reaching out to Fox News host Sean Hannity.

    Probably something to do with reports that Zimmerman was spotted loading up a pick up truck with his belongings.

    @ Put it away (where the sun don’t shine)

    Nothing I ever say indicates a hatred of Jews, or anyone, in fact. Post under your name and you can be taken more seriously, perhaps.

    If you think I indulge in hate speak against Jews, report me to your mate, deBries. Please!

    Of course, you will have to reveal your true identity – probably a sub to a bossy wife :-)

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  106. Put it away (2,880 comments) says:

    Oh right, yes of course luc, you just want them exterminated but it’s nothing personal. Glad you cleared that up…

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  107. cardassian (3 comments) says:

    @bereal
    Do you know that Sheriff Joe has been striped of his law license?

    http://www.balloon-juice.com/2012/04/10/a-little-justice-served/

    probably not much for Obama to worry about then eh?

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  108. tom hunter (5,095 comments) says:

    Florida state’s attorney Angela Corey announced this afternoon that George Zimmerman has been charged with second degree murder in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman turned himself in and is currently in custody. Corey declined to disclose where Zimmerman is being held, out of his safety as well as the safety of others.

    Well when you’ve got the New Black Panthers demanding that he be brought in dead or alive and calling for volunteers for a vigilante mob to take action, I would not disclose where he was being held either. As for the defense lawyers it appears there was more than one:

    “We voluntarily surrendered him to law enforcement, with the realization that the charges were going to come,” said Mark O’Mara, Zimmerman’s attorney.

    What’s actually needed now is what was needed from the start:

    “This matter is now in the hands of the judicial system and I am confident justice will prevail. As the process continues, it is critical that we be patient and allow the proceedings to move forward in a fair and transparent manner. I thank State Attorney Angela Corey for her diligence in conducting a thorough investigation. We will all continue to look for answers to the Trayvon Martin tragedy.”

    Thank goodness the USA has their first African-American president to act as a voice of calmness in these post-racial times and utter such words, …. oh, hang on:

    Governor Rick Scott asked for calm after the second-degree murder charge was announced.

    Still, Obama said Travyon looked like the son he never had. That was intended to be a calming statement at the beginning of this, was it not?

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  109. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    “You may be surprised to know this, Andy, but racism is not reserved for 100% ethnic Europeans.”

    So you are a racist when you are 80%, 50%, 10% ‘white’?
    What is the quota of ‘whiteness’ that makes a person a racist.

    That Zimmerman might be thinking of doing a runner doesn’t surprise me. The mob is baying for blood and want to start the lynching (A good Democratic Party past-time).
    The New Black Panther Party (NBPP) was offering a $10,000 bounty for a “citizen’s arrest” of George Zimmerman
    The NBPP “called for the mobilization of 10,000 black men” to do the “arrest.” Zimmerman and his family have received death threats since the case became a national issue.

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  110. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    Luc.

    Your news is old news.
    Zimmerman has a new defence team – he is in custody and has been charged with 2nd degree murder under Florida law.
    Its interesting that two independent eye-witnesses saw Trayvon Martin on top of Zimmerman who was flat on his face, beating Zimmerman in the back of his head.
    Medical checks showed Zimmerman had a broken – or damaged – nose, and lacerattions to the back of his head.

    Now the case is going to court, the truth should emerge.
    But there is another problem – the new Black Panther movement have put a $1.m bounty on Zimmerman – dead or alive. That’s why Zimmerman handed himself in to the police – for protection. And radical members of the black community are calling for “blood on the streets” over this.
    Whose stirring up racism? And that useless prick Holder, Obama’s attorney general is doing nothing about it.
    Yeah, this runs much deeper that a black boy getting shot by a white “racist.
    There is a lot more to come out of this.

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  111. Put it away (2,880 comments) says:

    what are you babbling about cardassian? Sheriff Joe doesn’t have a law license, he’s not a lawyer.

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  112. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Luc is also very upset about that 13 year old boy who was doused in petrol and set alight by two teenagers telling him ‘This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy.’

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/teenagers-poured-gasoline-boy-walking-home-school-set-fire-cops-article-1.1033062#ixzz1oKlZS0XP

    And of course Luc is also very upset about that 78 year old man who was beaten up by six youths shouting ‘This is for Trayvon. Kill that white’.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126003/Trayvon-Martin-case-6-youths-beat-man-78-twisted-racial-revenge-attack.html

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  113. tom hunter (5,095 comments) says:

    I found the following piece to be one of the more interesting walk-backs on the whole Martin shooting. It’s by a blogger called Bob Owens and these are some bits from his original post, based on what the media had told him – Sounds Like Murder to Me:

    It seems self-evident from the 911 tapes that he was psyching himself up to justify a confrontation. Zimmerman initiated the confrontation by leaving his vehicle. He then asks us to believe–absent any living witness to conflict with him–that a teen some 100 lbs lighter than him started a fight, and that Zimmerman “had” to shoot the kid in self defense.

    In light of the just released 911 tapes, which suggest Martin plead for his life before Zimmerman fired a second, killing shot,….

    Amazing what a few days of real investigation can do as you read Owen’s next post on the subject:

    How naive that post now seems. The narrative created by the media at that time was one of an innocent life taken for no reason at all, by a much older, heavier, and racist man itching for a confrontation.

    And in their eagerness to create and maintain that narrative we now have NBC desperately covering its multiple reports of the 911 call – which we now know was edited to reinforce the racist narrative. The editor has been fired for this “accident” but bloggers have already demonstrated the amount of work that would be required to produce the edited version from the original. Short version is that it was no mistake and irrespective of Zimmerman’s trial NBC appears to be very concerned about lawsuits, as the bastards should be.

    Mr Owens continues:

    That was before we found out there was only one gunshot and no coup de grâce. That was before we found out that George Zimmerman had not deluged the local police with 46 paranoid 911 calls in one year, but 46 calls over a period of eight years, which isn’t unreasonable for a community watch volunteer. The media had either lied about how often he called, or purposefully compressed the timeline.

    That was before we learned that Zimmerman didn’t know Martin’s race when he made the call, and that race didn’t play a roll in any of the 911 calls the local police had on file.

    That was before we discovered that George Zimmerman wasn’t the 240-plus pound bruiser in the five-year-old picture the media used as much as possible, but was listed at a much smaller 170 pounds by none other than the New York Times. That’s a nominal 20 pounds heavier than a teen that stood four inches over him.

    That was before we found out that two eyewitnesses placed Martin on top of Zimmerman as the aggressor, and that at least one of them claims it was Zimmerman crying for help.

    That was before ABC News attempted to claim police surveillance video disproved Zimmerman’s claim of being injured in what may have been a purposeful deception. The very same news organization was forced to later admit the presence of two lacerations on the back of George Zimmerman’s skull consistent with his claim of self-defense. In the end, details of the beating Zimmerman suffered at Trayvon Martin’s hands were only given a brief mention in the local news.

    That was before NBC News was forced to fire a senior producer for selectively editing audio of Zimmerman’s 911 call in a deliberate effort to make him sound racist.

    And the real coup de grâce

    I took the media’s claims at face value and erroneously labeled George Zimmerman a murderer based upon false information that was designed to arrange a lynching.

    I won’t get fooled again

    It would be good if other people who have been enraged by this case would sit back and re-think the narrative the media sold and why they did.

    As for the US broadcast media themselves: race-baiting, race-war inciting scum would be my description.

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  114. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    tom_hunter, good link. The whole thing is worth reading.

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  115. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Sounds like all the police need to do is read Owens’s blog and they’ll drop the charges.

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  116. tom hunter (5,095 comments) says:

    As opposed to earlier on, when all the police apparently needed to do was read ABC, NBC, the NYT and the rest of the usual suspects, and they could have just strung him up outside the station, probably with the local NBP group cheering their brains out.

    Really makes one appreciate careful fact gathering and analysis – in both police and media worlds.

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  117. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    It is difficult to be sure about what the outcome will be in this case. Obviously, the police feel they have a case and Zimmerman’s supporters may well feel confident he will be acquitted.
    The main story is how the incident has been appropriated by partisans to serve their own political narratives. Had there been no media interest, would Zimmerman now be facing a murder trial?

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  118. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    I don’t think the media is putting Zimmerman on trial per se. What appears to me to be on trial is the law, which just happens to be personified by Zimmerman.

    And by most accounts, the law personified by Zimmerman is at best an ass. Just one ass amongst a whole herd of Floridian asses.

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  119. Nostalgia-NZ (5,281 comments) says:

    Bit hard to swallow that the guy with the pistol was getting beaten up. How many times does the guy with the pistol, confronting an unarmed person, get beaten up only to return to his feet and kill his assailant? That story needs some fine tuning.

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  120. kowtow (8,784 comments) says:

    Funny how race becomes the trump card in so many issues these days.

    Anyone remember the abuse that John Hart was subjected to back in the day? That was appalling,possibly worse than the Lam business.

    The media love to play the race card.

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  121. Put it away (2,880 comments) says:

    Nostalgia, a pistol does nothing to protect you from a beating when it’s in your waistband. Zimmerman didn’t draw it until his life was in danger from the pumelling he was getting from the thug.

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  122. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Nostalgia/PIA
    It’s a bit difficult to determine from here what actually happened. Nice to have your contrasting opinions though.

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  123. Put it away (2,880 comments) says:

    Luc’s gone awfully quiet…

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  124. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    We have film of Zimmerman being taken into the station immediately after the shooting. No apparent injuries. This was confirmed by experts, as was the fact that the voice crying for help was not Zimmerman’s.

    MM

    The people asking the most questions were, of course, the boy’s family. Are they partisan? They lost their boy, by all accounts just a normal kid. If everyone who pushes for wrongdoers to be called to account are labelled partisan, there is not much hope for justice. And the groups that get involved are formed in response to grievous previous harm.

    The facts will come out and the racist bastards here will slink off…the topic. Like the coward PIA.

    You know, if we stopped doing racist acts, anti-racist activists wouldn’t be needed. Wouldn’t that be nice?

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  125. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    mm

    I can tell you Zimmerman was 80lbs heavier than the young “thug.”

    Fuck, there are some disgusting people on this blog!

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  126. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    PIA

    I’m watching the Breakers.

    Exciting stuff!!!

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  127. Put it away (2,880 comments) says:

    Jesus Luc, is that the best you can do, just flat out lie? Even your heroes ABC reluctantly admitted the truth.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAifLF8leOc

    What a shameless lying piece of trash you are Luc.

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  128. Put it away (2,880 comments) says:

    Luc you are lying again. He was 80 lbs heavier FIVE YEARS AGO, you know, like in that picture the media always use? Have a look at the video of him arriving at the cop station I posted, where do you think he’s hiding that 80 pounds? You would do youself a favour to actually read the links in Tom Hunter’s 8:23, then you would save yourself the embarassment of basing your case on discredited lies.

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  129. Nostalgia-NZ (5,281 comments) says:

    If it’s true that Zimmerman was on the ground getting his head bashed on the concrete, his assailant missed the fact that he was armed – even laying on top of him and Zimmerman had been all co-operative to that point about getting beaten up and not producing his firearm. But if you go for that, it seems that the teenager let up on bashing the broken down and armed gun man only to walk away confident that he wouldn’t be killed. Maybe the teenager robbed the gunman of those lollies that were found in the 17 year old’s pockets.

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  130. cha (4,084 comments) says:

    Looks like it’s par for the course in that part of the world.

    http://www.theroot.com/views/florida-s-history-failed-justice?wpisrc=root_lightbox

    http://www.groveland4.com/

    http://www.gilbertking.com/DevilInTheGrove.html

    http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jan/03/collier-judge-upholds-stand-your-ground-defense-ca/

    http://tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/main

    http://www.sptimes.com/News/112899/Floridian/A_Southern_sheriff_s_.shtml

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_T._Moore

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  131. Put it away (2,880 comments) says:

    Nostalgia, why don’t you actually learn what the story is you are attempting to discredit by simply making things up at random to counter what you imagine Zimmerman is saying? No one’s saying trayvon walked away, Zimmerman’s story that he voluntarily took a lie detector test on, was they that as Trayvon was on top of him beating the shit out of him he noticed the gun in his waistband and they struggled over it. The thug lost the struggle.

    Jesus, I’m starting to understand why you think Bain was innocent…

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  132. Elaycee (4,410 comments) says:

    PIA asks: “…why don’t you actually learn what the story is you are attempting to discredit by simply making things up at random to counter what you imagine..”

    Because old habits die hard? :D

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  133. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Great game…Breakers won!!!

    You wankers are pathetic. A mature, much, much bigger armed man kills an unarmed kid who was doing his best to run away from the pistol toting’ thug.

    You should listen to his last conversation with his girlfriend. He was trying to put Zimmerman off when he pulled hid hood up.

    Zimmerman shot him because the boy was black with a hoodie. Zimmerman stalked him, pure and simple.

    Second degree murder will still put him away for a long time. Good.

    Jeez, this is a cesspit.

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  134. Nostalgia-NZ (5,281 comments) says:

    I get it. The guy with the gun forget he had it and was randomly getting beaten up while on patrol. Old zimmy dressed in some kind of vigilante uniform no doubt, forgot he had a pistol on him when he confronted the youth, rang the police and had some conversation with them while his head was banging up and down on the pavement. Sure.

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  135. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    Luc.
    You have no rebuttal to the statements made by the eyewitnesses.

    Deny and ridicule – that is you strategy – same as all the lefty racist wankers that have put a bounty” dead or alive” on Zimmerman.

    Its only a cesspit because of the drivel and shit that you land on here.

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  136. Keeping Stock (10,443 comments) says:

    Two contributions from Luc in the one comment:

    You wankers are pathetic.</blockquote

    and:

    Jeez, this is a cesspit.

    D’ya reckon that Luc is blind to his own hypocrisy?

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  137. Nostalgia-NZ (5,281 comments) says:

    Of course Mr Zimmerman will get a fair trial as should be expected.

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  138. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Don

    I’m happy to wait and see, however, I suggest I follow real news more than all these fantasist, white supremacists infecting this blog.

    KS

    O you poor fellow

    A little Kiwi colloquialism, almost a term of endearment, these days, bothers you?

    And blinds you to the wider issue?

    Ah well, don’t worry, God will see you right :-)

    Probably the biggest racist of all time, that fellow :-)

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  139. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    and now,

    onto the stage, a true fuckwit, a moron so dumb she can’t even spell her own name rite.

    Talking about, ” cardassian” @ 7.59

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  140. calendar girl (1,270 comments) says:

    “I can’t believe you are so fucking stupid. This is a case of a young kid executed in cold blood because of the color of his skin.”

    Call me fucking stupid as well if you like, Luc, but I prefer to wait until the charge of second degree murder is determined in a court of law. Until witnesses are heard and cross-examined, I cannot rely on your insightful predetermination of the case from 13,000km away.

    (Any verdict not in accord with your prejudiced view will be greeted, predictably, with allegations of racial bias in the USA judicial system. Or bribery. Or whatever it takes.)

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  141. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    The prick should have been changed with first degree.

    And if he is found guilty of 2nd degree, you will be OK with that?

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  142. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Ha, bereal really doesn’t know what a Cardassian is…

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  143. Put it away (2,880 comments) says:

    So luc, nothing to say about where the guy in the police video is hiding that “eighty pound” weight advantage over a man four inches taller? thought not.

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  144. Pete George (23,687 comments) says:

    but I prefer to wait until the charge of second degree murder is determined in a court of law.

    Me too. Trial by media (and by blog) is never going to be good for achieving fair justice. It highlights a symptom that many in politics also suffer from, instant intractable opinions based on preconcieved bias.

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  145. DavidR (102 comments) says:

    And you’re surprised, mikenmild?

    “onto the stage, a true fuckwit, a moron so dumb she can’t even spell her own name rite” (sic). bereal often talks to, and about, himself!

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  146. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    Plus, Trayvon turns out to be 6 foot 3 – not a little guy, even he is only a teen…

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