General Debate 12 April 2012

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Griff

Wat
Climate gate emails were reviewed by both university’s, the USA govertment, the royal science society, and others. Not one of the reviews found any fault in the scientists, other than over reacting to alt scientist weirdos.
You been wanking with watts again?
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April 12, 2012 7:25pm
Put it away

Hah, Kiwiblog’s number jew-hater Luc is concerned about racism. More proof you have to leave your sense of irony at the door when you become a leftist. Just place it on the ground next to your brain…
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April 12, 2012 7:27pm
tom hunter

Amazing how GD comments can be completely overlooked in a matter of just 7 days.:

NOW HEAR THIS
NOW HEAR THIS

THIS IS A NARRATIVE DESTRUCTION EXERCISE.
THE PROCESS WILL TAKE SLIGHTLY LESS THAN 1 MINUTE.

THANK YOU

“You will recall the incident of the beating of the black homeless man Sherman Ware on December 4, 2010 by the son of a Sanford police officer. The beating sparked outrage in the community but there were very few that stepped up to do anything about it. I would presume the inaction was because of the fact that he was homeless not because he was black.

Do you know the individual who stepped up when no one else in the black community would? Do you know who spent tireless hours putting flyers on the cars of persons parked in the churches of the black community? Do you know who waited for the church-goers to get out of church so that he could hand them flyers in an attempt to organize the black community against this horrible miscarriage of justice? Do you know who helped organize the City Hall meeting on January 8, 2011 at Sanford City Hall??

That person was GEORGE ZIMMERMAN.”

– from a letter to Turner Clayton of the Seminole County NAACP written by “a concerned Zimmerman family member”
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April 12, 2012 7:28pm
Other_Andy

Be quiet tom!
You heard Luc.
Zimmerman is a racist bastard!
Why?
Because he is eh…because he is white.
(Well, at least half-white)

Racist one-eyed bigots do not seem to see the irony.
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April 12, 2012 7:34pm
Luc Hansen

You may be surprised to know this, Andy, but racism is not reserved for 100% ethnic Europeans.

However, with your friend, Zimmerman, the plot thickens, courtesy of Democracy Now!:

Defense Lawyer Drops Trayvon Martin Shooter George Zimmerman

George Zimmerman, the Florida man who shot and killed the unarmed African-American teenager Trayvon Martin, has lost his defense team. On Tuesday, Zimmerman attorney Craig Sonner said he is withdrawing from the case because he is been unable to reach his client.
Craig Sonner: “As of now, we are withdrawing as counsel for Mr. Zimmerman. We have lost contact with him. Up to this point, we’ve had contact every day. He has gone on his own. I’m not sure what he’s doing or who he’s talking to, but at this point we’re withdrawing as counsel.”
Although he’s been out of contact with his attorneys, Zimmerman has launched a public effort to defend himself, launching a website for his legal fund and reaching out to Fox News host Sean Hannity.

Probably something to do with reports that Zimmerman was spotted loading up a pick up truck with his belongings.

@ Put it away (where the sun don’t shine)

Nothing I ever say indicates a hatred of Jews, or anyone, in fact. Post under your name and you can be taken more seriously, perhaps.

If you think I indulge in hate speak against Jews, report me to your mate, deBries. Please!

Of course, you will have to reveal your true identity – probably a sub to a bossy wife 🙂
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April 12, 2012 7:45pm
Put it away

Oh right, yes of course luc, you just want them exterminated but it’s nothing personal. Glad you cleared that up…
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April 12, 2012 7:55pm
cardassian

@bereal
Do you know that Sheriff Joe has been striped of his law license?

http://www.balloon-juice.com/2012/04/10/a-little-justice-served/

probably not much for Obama to worry about then eh?
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April 12, 2012 7:59pm
tom hunter

Florida state’s attorney Angela Corey announced this afternoon that George Zimmerman has been charged with second degree murder in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman turned himself in and is currently in custody. Corey declined to disclose where Zimmerman is being held, out of his safety as well as the safety of others.

Well when you’ve got the New Black Panthers demanding that he be brought in dead or alive and calling for volunteers for a vigilante mob to take action, I would not disclose where he was being held either. As for the defense lawyers it appears there was more than one:

“We voluntarily surrendered him to law enforcement, with the realization that the charges were going to come,” said Mark O’Mara, Zimmerman’s attorney.

What’s actually needed now is what was needed from the start:

“This matter is now in the hands of the judicial system and I am confident justice will prevail. As the process continues, it is critical that we be patient and allow the proceedings to move forward in a fair and transparent manner. I thank State Attorney Angela Corey for her diligence in conducting a thorough investigation. We will all continue to look for answers to the Trayvon Martin tragedy.”

Thank goodness the USA has their first African-American president to act as a voice of calmness in these post-racial times and utter such words, …. oh, hang on:

Governor Rick Scott asked for calm after the second-degree murder charge was announced.

Still, Obama said Travyon looked like the son he never had. That was intended to be a calming statement at the beginning of this, was it not?
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April 12, 2012 8:01pm
Other_Andy

“You may be surprised to know this, Andy, but racism is not reserved for 100% ethnic Europeans.”

So you are a racist when you are 80%, 50%, 10% ‘white’?
What is the quota of ‘whiteness’ that makes a person a racist.

That Zimmerman might be thinking of doing a runner doesn’t surprise me. The mob is baying for blood and want to start the lynching (A good Democratic Party past-time).
The New Black Panther Party (NBPP) was offering a $10,000 bounty for a “citizen’s arrest” of George Zimmerman
The NBPP “called for the mobilization of 10,000 black men” to do the “arrest.” Zimmerman and his family have received death threats since the case became a national issue.
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April 12, 2012 8:03pm
Don the Kiwi

Luc.

Your news is old news.
Zimmerman has a new defence team – he is in custody and has been charged with 2nd degree murder under Florida law.
Its interesting that two independent eye-witnesses saw Trayvon Martin on top of Zimmerman who was flat on his face, beating Zimmerman in the back of his head.
Medical checks showed Zimmerman had a broken – or damaged – nose, and lacerattions to the back of his head.

Now the case is going to court, the truth should emerge.
But there is another problem – the new Black Panther movement have put a $1.m bounty on Zimmerman – dead or alive. That’s why Zimmerman handed himself in to the police – for protection. And radical members of the black community are calling for “blood on the streets” over this.
Whose stirring up racism? And that useless prick Holder, Obama’s attorney general is doing nothing about it.
Yeah, this runs much deeper that a black boy getting shot by a white “racist.
There is a lot more to come out of this.
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April 12, 2012 8:05pm
Put it away

what are you babbling about cardassian? Sheriff Joe doesn’t have a law license, he’s not a lawyer.
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April 12, 2012 8:11pm
Other_Andy

Luc is also very upset about that 13 year old boy who was doused in petrol and set alight by two teenagers telling him ‘This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy.’

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/teenagers-poured-gasoline-boy-walking-home-school-set-fire-cops-article-1.1033062#ixzz1oKlZS0XP

And of course Luc is also very upset about that 78 year old man who was beaten up by six youths shouting ‘This is for Trayvon. Kill that white’.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126003/Trayvon-Martin-case-6-youths-beat-man-78-twisted-racial-revenge-attack.html
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April 12, 2012 8:21pm
tom hunter

I found the following piece to be one of the more interesting walk-backs on the whole Martin shooting. It’s by a blogger called Bob Owens and these are some bits from his original post, based on what the media had told him – Sounds Like Murder to Me:

It seems self-evident from the 911 tapes that he was psyching himself up to justify a confrontation. Zimmerman initiated the confrontation by leaving his vehicle. He then asks us to believe–absent any living witness to conflict with him–that a teen some 100 lbs lighter than him started a fight, and that Zimmerman “had” to shoot the kid in self defense.
…
In light of the just released 911 tapes, which suggest Martin plead for his life before Zimmerman fired a second, killing shot,….

Amazing what a few days of real investigation can do as you read Owen’s next post on the subject:

How naive that post now seems. The narrative created by the media at that time was one of an innocent life taken for no reason at all, by a much older, heavier, and racist man itching for a confrontation.

And in their eagerness to create and maintain that narrative we now have NBC desperately covering its multiple reports of the 911 call – which we now know was edited to reinforce the racist narrative. The editor has been fired for this “accident” but bloggers have already demonstrated the amount of work that would be required to produce the edited version from the original. Short version is that it was no mistake and irrespective of Zimmerman’s trial NBC appears to be very concerned about lawsuits, as the bastards should be.

Mr Owens continues:

That was before we found out there was only one gunshot and no coup de grâce. That was before we found out that George Zimmerman had not deluged the local police with 46 paranoid 911 calls in one year, but 46 calls over a period of eight years, which isn’t unreasonable for a community watch volunteer. The media had either lied about how often he called, or purposefully compressed the timeline.

That was before we learned that Zimmerman didn’t know Martin’s race when he made the call, and that race didn’t play a roll in any of the 911 calls the local police had on file.

That was before we discovered that George Zimmerman wasn’t the 240-plus pound bruiser in the five-year-old picture the media used as much as possible, but was listed at a much smaller 170 pounds by none other than the New York Times. That’s a nominal 20 pounds heavier than a teen that stood four inches over him.

That was before we found out that two eyewitnesses placed Martin on top of Zimmerman as the aggressor, and that at least one of them claims it was Zimmerman crying for help.

That was before ABC News attempted to claim police surveillance video disproved Zimmerman’s claim of being injured in what may have been a purposeful deception. The very same news organization was forced to later admit the presence of two lacerations on the back of George Zimmerman’s skull consistent with his claim of self-defense. In the end, details of the beating Zimmerman suffered at Trayvon Martin’s hands were only given a brief mention in the local news.

That was before NBC News was forced to fire a senior producer for selectively editing audio of Zimmerman’s 911 call in a deliberate effort to make him sound racist.

And the real coup de grâce

I took the media’s claims at face value and erroneously labeled George Zimmerman a murderer based upon false information that was designed to arrange a lynching.

I won’t get fooled again

It would be good if other people who have been enraged by this case would sit back and re-think the narrative the media sold and why they did.

As for the US broadcast media themselves: race-baiting, race-war inciting scum would be my description.
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April 12, 2012 8:23pm
Fletch

tom_hunter, good link. The whole thing is worth reading.
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April 12, 2012 8:33pm
mikenmild

Sounds like all the police need to do is read Owens’s blog and they’ll drop the charges.
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April 12, 2012 8:38pm
tom hunter

As opposed to earlier on, when all the police apparently needed to do was read ABC, NBC, the NYT and the rest of the usual suspects, and they could have just strung him up outside the station, probably with the local NBP group cheering their brains out.

Really makes one appreciate careful fact gathering and analysis – in both police and media worlds.
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April 12, 2012 8:44pm
mikenmild

It is difficult to be sure about what the outcome will be in this case. Obviously, the police feel they have a case and Zimmerman’s supporters may well feel confident he will be acquitted.
The main story is how the incident has been appropriated by partisans to serve their own political narratives. Had there been no media interest, would Zimmerman now be facing a murder trial?
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April 12, 2012 8:50pm
Scott Chris

I don’t think the media is putting Zimmerman on trial per se. What appears to me to be on trial is the law, which just happens to be personified by Zimmerman.

And by most accounts, the law personified by Zimmerman is at best an ass. Just one ass amongst a whole herd of Floridian asses.
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April 12, 2012 8:59pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Bit hard to swallow that the guy with the pistol was getting beaten up. How many times does the guy with the pistol, confronting an unarmed person, get beaten up only to return to his feet and kill his assailant? That story needs some fine tuning.
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April 12, 2012 9:00pm
kowtow

Funny how race becomes the trump card in so many issues these days.

Anyone remember the abuse that John Hart was subjected to back in the day? That was appalling,possibly worse than the Lam business.

The media love to play the race card.
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April 12, 2012 9:10pm
Put it away

Nostalgia, a pistol does nothing to protect you from a beating when it’s in your waistband. Zimmerman didn’t draw it until his life was in danger from the pumelling he was getting from the thug.
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April 12, 2012 9:12pm
mikenmild

Nostalgia/PIA
It’s a bit difficult to determine from here what actually happened. Nice to have your contrasting opinions though.
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April 12, 2012 9:14pm
Put it away

Luc’s gone awfully quiet…
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April 12, 2012 9:14pm
Luc Hansen

We have film of Zimmerman being taken into the station immediately after the shooting. No apparent injuries. This was confirmed by experts, as was the fact that the voice crying for help was not Zimmerman’s.

MM

The people asking the most questions were, of course, the boy’s family. Are they partisan? They lost their boy, by all accounts just a normal kid. If everyone who pushes for wrongdoers to be called to account are labelled partisan, there is not much hope for justice. And the groups that get involved are formed in response to grievous previous harm.

The facts will come out and the racist bastards here will slink off…the topic. Like the coward PIA.

You know, if we stopped doing racist acts, anti-racist activists wouldn’t be needed. Wouldn’t that be nice?
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April 12, 2012 9:14pm
Luc Hansen

mm

I can tell you Zimmerman was 80lbs heavier than the young “thug.”

Fuck, there are some disgusting people on this blog!
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April 12, 2012 9:18pm
Luc Hansen

PIA

I’m watching the Breakers.

Exciting stuff!!!
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April 12, 2012 9:19pm
Put it away

Jesus Luc, is that the best you can do, just flat out lie? Even your heroes ABC reluctantly admitted the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAifLF8leOc

What a shameless lying piece of trash you are Luc.
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April 12, 2012 9:30pm
Put it away

Luc you are lying again. He was 80 lbs heavier FIVE YEARS AGO, you know, like in that picture the media always use? Have a look at the video of him arriving at the cop station I posted, where do you think he’s hiding that 80 pounds? You would do youself a favour to actually read the links in Tom Hunter’s 8:23, then you would save yourself the embarassment of basing your case on discredited lies.
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April 12, 2012 9:35pm
Nostalgia-NZ

If it’s true that Zimmerman was on the ground getting his head bashed on the concrete, his assailant missed the fact that he was armed – even laying on top of him and Zimmerman had been all co-operative to that point about getting beaten up and not producing his firearm. But if you go for that, it seems that the teenager let up on bashing the broken down and armed gun man only to walk away confident that he wouldn’t be killed. Maybe the teenager robbed the gunman of those lollies that were found in the 17 year old’s pockets.
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April 12, 2012 9:38pm
cha

Looks like it’s par for the course in that part of the world.

http://www.theroot.com/views/florida-s-history-failed-justice?wpisrc=root_lightbox

http://www.groveland4.com/

http://www.gilbertking.com/DevilInTheGrove.html

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jan/03/collier-judge-upholds-stand-your-ground-defense-ca/

http://tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/main

http://www.sptimes.com/News/112899/Floridian/A_Southern_sheriff_s_.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_T._Moore
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April 12, 2012 9:43pm
Put it away

Nostalgia, why don’t you actually learn what the story is you are attempting to discredit by simply making things up at random to counter what you imagine Zimmerman is saying? No one’s saying trayvon walked away, Zimmerman’s story that he voluntarily took a lie detector test on, was they that as Trayvon was on top of him beating the shit out of him he noticed the gun in his waistband and they struggled over it. The thug lost the struggle.

Jesus, I’m starting to understand why you think Bain was innocent…
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April 12, 2012 9:48pm
Elaycee

PIA asks: “…why don’t you actually learn what the story is you are attempting to discredit by simply making things up at random to counter what you imagine..”

Because old habits die hard? 😀
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April 12, 2012 9:58pm
Luc Hansen

Great game…Breakers won!!!

You wankers are pathetic. A mature, much, much bigger armed man kills an unarmed kid who was doing his best to run away from the pistol toting’ thug.

You should listen to his last conversation with his girlfriend. He was trying to put Zimmerman off when he pulled hid hood up.

Zimmerman shot him because the boy was black with a hoodie. Zimmerman stalked him, pure and simple.

Second degree murder will still put him away for a long time. Good.

Jeez, this is a cesspit.
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April 12, 2012 10:11pm
Nostalgia-NZ

I get it. The guy with the gun forget he had it and was randomly getting beaten up while on patrol. Old zimmy dressed in some kind of vigilante uniform no doubt, forgot he had a pistol on him when he confronted the youth, rang the police and had some conversation with them while his head was banging up and down on the pavement. Sure.
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April 12, 2012 10:14pm
Don the Kiwi

Luc.
You have no rebuttal to the statements made by the eyewitnesses.

Deny and ridicule – that is you strategy – same as all the lefty racist wankers that have put a bounty” dead or alive” on Zimmerman.

Its only a cesspit because of the drivel and shit that you land on here.
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April 12, 2012 10:15pm
Keeping Stock

Two contributions from Luc in the one comment:

You wankers are pathetic.</blockquote

and:

Jeez, this is a cesspit.

D’ya reckon that Luc is blind to his own hypocrisy?
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April 12, 2012 10:17pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Of course Mr Zimmerman will get a fair trial as should be expected.
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April 12, 2012 10:22pm
Luc Hansen

Don

I’m happy to wait and see, however, I suggest I follow real news more than all these fantasist, white supremacists infecting this blog.

KS

O you poor fellow

A little Kiwi colloquialism, almost a term of endearment, these days, bothers you?

And blinds you to the wider issue?

Ah well, don’t worry, God will see you right 🙂

Probably the biggest racist of all time, that fellow 🙂
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April 12, 2012 10:29pm
bereal

and now,

onto the stage, a true fuckwit, a moron so dumb she can’t even spell her own name rite.

Talking about, ” cardassian” @ 7.59
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April 12, 2012 10:46pm
calendar girl

“I can’t believe you are so fucking stupid. This is a case of a young kid executed in cold blood because of the color of his skin.”

Call me fucking stupid as well if you like, Luc, but I prefer to wait until the charge of second degree murder is determined in a court of law. Until witnesses are heard and cross-examined, I cannot rely on your insightful predetermination of the case from 13,000km away.

(Any verdict not in accord with your prejudiced view will be greeted, predictably, with allegations of racial bias in the USA judicial system. Or bribery. Or whatever it takes.)
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April 12, 2012 10:47pm
Luc Hansen

The prick should have been changed with first degree.

And if he is found guilty of 2nd degree, you will be OK with that?
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April 12, 2012 11:18pm
mikenmild

Ha, bereal really doesn’t know what a Cardassian is…
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April 13, 2012 7:11am
Put it away

So luc, nothing to say about where the guy in the police video is hiding that “eighty pound” weight advantage over a man four inches taller? thought not.
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April 13, 2012 7:38am
Pete George

but I prefer to wait until the charge of second degree murder is determined in a court of law.

Me too. Trial by media (and by blog) is never going to be good for achieving fair justice. It highlights a symptom that many in politics also suffer from, instant intractable opinions based on preconcieved bias.
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April 13, 2012 7:45am
DavidR

And you’re surprised, mikenmild?

“onto the stage, a true fuckwit, a moron so dumb she can’t even spell her own name rite” (sic). bereal often talks to, and about, himself!
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April 13, 2012 8:00am
Fletch

Plus, Trayvon turns out to be 6 foot 3 – not a little guy, even he is only a teen…
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April 13, 2012 9:42am

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