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The Anzac story is a terrible blot on us. We happily joined a despicable and cynical war between European empires for world domination. We invaded another country and butchered 50,000 young men defending their homeland. After we got our butts kicked we happily went off to the mud fields in Europe, led by the same incompetent leaders from Gallipoli.
…
Now we celebrate our poster boys in Afghanistan in the same way I’m sure New Zealanders kidded themselves at the time about the young men who lie in the graveyards of Gallipoli.
Anzac Day is a day, we are told, that makes us who we are. That’s only true if we are babies who like fairytales to make us feel warm inside. Until we can tell the truth about ourselves our Waitangi and Anzac Days are just times of self-delusion.
May I start the day with a very special post for Fletch and Falafulu Fisis and the rest of the members of kiwiblogs fan club Friends Of A Kenyan with this video
Obama at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner 2012
Dial-a-tinny the latest free market development for the cannabis trade:
Armed dial-a-tinny drug dealers are stepping up their operation in Auckland, delivering drugs to workplaces and hospitals, and touting for customers by handing out business cards in local malls, police say.
~Don’t you just love how prohibition keeps us all safer~
Might pay to double up by delivering pizza too – for the munchies
There’s glowing reports of a Labour speech with “some good vision”. The piece of it that’s being highlighted, on Dim-Post and at The Standard, is yet another metaphor (how many have been used anti asset sales?):
When the right-wing party says that it’s going to cut your leg off, voters want the left-wing party to say that it’s not going to cut your leg off. Voters don’t want to be told that the left-wing party is also going to cut your leg off, but cut it off a bit lower down and give you some anesthetic.
But is stupid metaphors the best sort of vision Labour can come up with? or the speech grand finale:
It’s going to be hard, but we’re not afraid of hard work. With your help, and the help of the people of New Zealand, we can win the next election.
We can move forward to a future that rewards hard work and stops rewarding dishonesty. That gives the poorest of our citizens the chance to a decent life. That gives us all a chance to live in a nation that was once called ‘God’s own country.”
From Wikileaks, an email showing how Obama Team Stole Election (via ballot box stuffing) , Bribed Jesse Jackson And Took Russian Money In 2008.
On Monday February 27th, 2012, WikiLeaks began publishing The Global Intelligence Files, over five million e-mails from the Texas headquartered “global intelligence” company Stratfor. The e-mails date between July 2004 and late December 2011. They reveal the inner workings of a company that fronts as an intelligence publisher, but provides confidential intelligence services to large corporations, such as Bhopal’s Dow Chemical Co., Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and government agencies, including the US Department of Homeland Security, the US Marines and the US Defence Intelligence Agency. The emails show Stratfor’s web of informers, pay-off structure, payment laundering techniques and psychological methods.
—–
RE: Insight – The Dems & Dirty Tricks ** Internal Use Only – Pls Do Not Forward **
Email-ID 339396
Date 2008-11-07 14:45:50
From howerton@stratfor.com
To burton@stratfor.com, secure@stratfor.com
Well, look at it this way. The Dems quit pretending and admitted to
themselves that to win it you have to get off your high horse and play
dirty when you have to. And they won.
———————————————————————-
From: Fred Burton [mailto:burton@stratfor.com]
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 7:41 AM
To: secure@stratfor.com
Subject: Insight – The Dems & Dirty Tricks ** Internal Use Only – Pls Do
Not Forward **
** Internal Use Only – Pls Do Not Forward **
1) The black Dems were caught stuffing the ballot boxes in Philly and Ohio
as reported the night of the election and Sen. McCain chose not to
fight. The matter is not dead inside the party. It now becomes a matter
of sequence now as to how and when to “out”.
2) It appears the Dems “made a donation” to Rev. Jesse (no, they would
never do that!) to keep his yap shut after his diatribe about the Jews and
Israel. A little bird told me it was a “nice six-figure donation”. This
also becomes a matter of how and when to out.
3) The hunt is on for the sleezy Russian money into O-mans coffers. A
smoking gun has already been found. Will get more on this when the time
is right. My source was too giddy to continue. Can you say Clinton and
ChiCom funny money? This also becomes a matter of how and when to out.
Did anyone catch a TV program (I think it might have been “Marae Investigate”) where Willie Jackson said that because a particular Iwi had lost most of their $18 million (from memory) Treaty of Waitangi settlement through bad investments, it was the Government’s job in the future to provide good advisors and basically tell the Iwis how to invest their money correctly?
I saw just a snippet on (I think) the News. Not having seen the full program, I’m interested in the full context. Because on the face of it, this is Willie Jackson saying “give us the money, then hold us by the hand and show us what to do with it, make sure that we silly Maori don’t fritter it away or lose it through our own fault”. He’s (a) insulting his own people by saying they’re too thick to know how to invest wisely, and (b) saying the Government should take on the responsibility for nannying the Iwi through investing it.
Nah he’s just looking for another handout for Maori and trying to ignore the law of consequences.
It’s all about entitlements, he thinks Maori are weak and incapable of running their own lives because of the wickedness the evil white colonisers did to them a 150 years ago, therefore they are entitled.
It’s the reason NZ will stay as an underachieving country and people, as long as 50% of our population think they are entitled to Other Peoples Money and vote for politicians who haven’t the balls to say otherwise.
yeah I saw that graham. Willie Jackson is the pits. I would bet the farm if the government introduced an advisory service for Maori and their treaty payments Willie fucking Jackson would be screaming his head off and claim the government is treating Maori in a paternalistic manner. You just can’t win with these people. Also Willie was in our local paper (Taranaki daily news ) moaning that this particular settlement was way to small. Oh great willie, you bloody clown, would have been much better if they lost $100 million.
“why couldnt we have trained kiwis to do this work?”
oh, so at all times we should have 300+ highly trained graphics people up our sleeves for when we get a big movie?
I had dinner with one of those hightly skiller workers last night. The chap starts at WETA today, and arrived from Sydney last week. He’s a kiwi..!
National’s Mainland conference was much more accessible to media and is making a concerted effort to engage with membership. I hope this mode of operation works it’s way up north. Other parties could also learn from it.
phil – I’ll (just) tollerate your lecturing on mind-altering drugs and armed offences because you have first hand experience of these. But as your parasitic arse has avoided employment for decades, and you’ve been firmly latched onto the taxpayer’s tit you have no right to say anything about job creation or boosting the economy. Take your fried brain home from the library and get a job.
graham – Yes. He previously worked for Weta, then followed work opportunities to Sydney.. and now back here with Weta again. There are (apparently) a few of his former Weta colleagues doing the same.
(whisper) sssshhh. Be very quiet, and maybe he won’t notice that somebody mentioned him …
(back to normal voice) So, anybody going to call Radio Live and deal to Willie Jackson? “Hey Willie, why do you think that Maori are too thick to know how to invest wisely? Whaddaya mean, you don’t? But you said …”
If Willie Jackson believes ‘the Crown’ has an obligation beyond any final settlement, it should be to ensure the amount is divided by members of the iwi and a share is paid to each man, woman and child. If they wish then to return it to some collective investment or use that should be the individual’s business.
Whinging about WETA wanting to import 300+ highly skilled workers. She had zero facts. It was such a nothing interview. its worth a listen.
“why couldnt we have trained kiwis to do this work?”
oh, so at all times we should have 300+ highly trained graphics people up our sleeves for when we get a big movie?
fucking moron
Really!
Perhaps we should then question why it is we have been spending your tax money training graphics people in the poly’s and uni’s forever. Just for Aussies sake I presume.
First chance of putting their training to work and we wnat to import a bunch Indians.
From Wikileaks, an email showing how Obama Team Stole Election (via ballot box stuffing) , Bribed Jesse Jackson And Took Russian Money In 2008.
Showing? Where is it showing that, Fletch? Just where?
And strafor internal email (marked with ** Internal Use Only – Pls Do Not Forward ** ) 5 days after the election with some unsubstantiated rumors? No sources , no context, no references, no nothing.
So what exactly does that show?
And I love the end of your article:
“Startfor will neither confirm nor deny whether the communiqués attributed to its staff are real or fabrications.”
“… does the government owe Ngati Tama compensation? Personally, I don’t think so …”
Glad to hear that! But then in the next breath “… but I know other Maori think compensation is appropriate.”
What?! Why? They were given the money, they invested badly, and lost it. How is that the Government’s fault?
Reading on, Morgan states that it “is negligent, on the government’s part, to absolve itself of responsibilities once treaty settlements are passed.” As has been pointed out already, just wait for the screams and howls if the Governement was to say essentially the same thing that Willie Jackson has: “Maori are thick, don’t know how to invest, so we’re gonna do it for you”.
Why did the Iwi in question not seek advice from a proficient investment advisor? Or even some of the other Iwi who have managed to do quite well?
Talking about Len Brown (Hero of the Left when he stood against John Banks, remember!) and his plans to increase rates, “Heart of the City” advocates alternative income sources for the council, including a bed tax and 1 per cent in GST, which would be paid by everyone in Auckland – not just ratepayers.
Anyone remember the Poll Tax riots in Britain 20 years ago …
On a slight aside … apparently we had a poll tax on Chinese immigrants during the 19th and early 20th centuries. Had a great impact, that did – Chinese immigration went down from 20,000 a year to 8 people. It was repealed in 1944, and Helen Clark offered New Zealand’s Chinese community an official apology for the poll tax in 2002.
“willie & JT” have the weekends march at 10,000 lol
They are all over banks. The bit that cracked me up “imagine if this was winston or clarke, the out cry”. fuck, front page of the major newspapers and a ton of tv coverage not enough??
and of course, “just cause people voted for national doesnt mean they voted for asset sales”. fuck off. if it was the defining issue for them they wouldnt have voted national
i wonder, if Sir Douglas Graham and his mates had kept their heads down and sucked up their
sentences like men, then this other appeal may not have happened.
He has given a link to a video of Somalian pirates taking their skiff for a Sunday outing (or maybe attempting to hijack a merchant ship). The cowardly AK47 wielding scum, used to attacking unarmed freighter crews, come unglued in a big way. No biggie but apparently the world apologists for third world cultures have condemned the ship’s security guards for using undue force. We can’t have those nice Somalians being shot at while they’re working can we? It’s probably agaist OSH regulations.
Wind farms may have a minor effect on microclimates by mixing air of different temperatures, but they operate in wind that mixes air, so it’s hard to see how any significant local changes would occur, let alone global effects.
This toxic lake poisons Chinese farmers, their children and their land. It is what’s left behind after making the magnets for Britain’s latest wind turbines… and, as a special Live investigation reveals, is merely one of a multitude of environmental sins committed in the name of our new green Jerusalem
[...]
Hidden out of sight behind smoke-shrouded factory complexes in the city of Baotou, and patrolled by platoons of security guards, lies a five-mile wide ‘tailing’ lake. It has killed farmland for miles around, made thousands of people ill and put one of China’s key waterways in jeopardy.
This vast, hissing cauldron of chemicals is the dumping ground for seven million tons a year of mined rare earth after it has been doused in acid and chemicals and processed through red-hot furnaces to extract its components.
Rusting pipelines meander for miles from factories processing rare earths in Baotou out to the man-made lake where, mixed with water, the foul-smelling radioactive waste from this industrial process is pumped day after day. No signposts and no paved roads lead here, and as we approach security guards shoo us away and tail us. When we finally break through the cordon and climb sand dunes to reach its brim, an apocalyptic sight greets us: a giant, secret toxic dump, made bigger by every wind turbine we build.
The lake instantly assaults your senses. Stand on the black crust for just seconds and your eyes water and a powerful, acrid stench fills your lungs.
For hours after our visit, my stomach lurched and my head throbbed. We were there for only one hour, but those who live in Mr Yan’s village of Dalahai, and other villages around, breathe in the same poison every day.
Retired farmer Su Bairen, 69, who led us to the lake, says it was initially a novelty – a multi-coloured pond set in farmland as early rare earth factories run by the state-owned Baogang group of companies began work in the Sixties.
‘At first it was just a hole in the ground,’ he says. ‘When it dried in the winter and summer, it turned into a black crust and children would play on it. Then one or two of them fell through and drowned in the sludge below. Since then, children have stayed away.’
As more factories sprang up, the banks grew higher, the lake grew larger and the stench and fumes grew more overwhelming.
‘It turned into a mountain that towered over us,’ says Mr Su. ‘Anything we planted just withered, then our animals started to sicken and die.’
People too began to suffer. Dalahai villagers say their teeth began to fall out, their hair turned white at unusually young ages, and they suffered from severe skin and respiratory diseases. Children were born with soft bones and cancer rates rocketed.
Official studies carried out five years ago in Dalahai village confirmed there were unusually high rates of cancer along with high rates of osteoporosis and skin and respiratory diseases. The lake’s radiation levels are ten times higher than in the surrounding countryside, the studies found.
Since then, maybe because of pressure from the companies operating around the lake, which pump out waste 24 hours a day, the results of ongoing radiation and toxicity tests carried out on the lake have been kept secret and officials have refused to publicly acknowledge health risks to nearby villages.
2) Wind farms sometimes produce too much electricity.
Last year in the UK, wind farms were paid £25 Million of taxpayer money not to produce electricity. £1.6 Million on one day alone!
Wind farms were paid £25million not to produce electricity when it is ‘too windy’ last year, figures revealed today.
There was a staggering 13,733 per cent rise in the payments on the year before.
Turbine operators are ordered by the National Grid to shutdown to avoid too much power being produced during gales.
Wind farms set their own rates to close and have been accused of demanding ‘excessive’ fees to shutdown, The Times reported.
On one day alone companies were paid £1.6million not to produce energy in October last year.
Figures revealed they received an average of £361 per megawatt-hour that day for electricity they could have generated – four times the price they would have sold it for. In total wind farms were asked to stop producing for 149,983 megawatt-hours – which is 1.49 per cent of the energy they produced.
This is equivalent of a large offshore facility being shutdown permanently.
@Nasska – the Russians know how to deal with pirates. They kill them. The Royal Navy however, is loathe to even arrest them and bring them aboard their vessels in case they claim political assylum in the UK.
The Royal Navy also once knew how to deal with pirates. Simply blew ‘em out of the water or hanged them from the yard arm (or some such technical marine term) Now though the pirates have human rights and the law abiding none.
Pete ,please keep making excuses for expensive,subsidised ,ideological and wasteful power production,it really does your credibility no end of good!
kowtow – In defence of Pete (1:58), I can’t see these making much difference. More to the point, the research in question was published in Nature, a journel which is increasingly discredited as alarmist, and lacking scientific credibility.
Translation of KK 3:39
The bible does not have climate change or any thing about wind farms
my alt science nutjob websites say no climate change
This publication “nature” has peer reviewed studies from sicientists
I dont like real science If it does not fit my conservative Cristian nutjob views it must be wrong
KK and fletch are very much the same
Same book guides them to the same result
kowtow, I wasn’t making any sort of comment on wind turbines as a power source.
I have some knowledge of blade mixing of air, powered blades have been used for decades to mix air and break up the inversion layer in frost fighting for fruit and grapes. Some blades are fixed and electric powered, sometimes they use helicopters.
There’s a big difference between them and wind turbines as they use power sources to create air movement, where as wind turbines harness existing wind movement (in which case you don’t have trapped layers of cold air under an inversion layer).
So Banks has just denied he thanked Dotcom for the donation.
Obviously in response to Mallard’s point this morning about this being the “killer point,” given you can hardly deny you knew if you thanked him for it, can you.
Instead Banks has obfuscated that the phone call was ” to thank him for a $500,000 fireworks display he had donated to Auckland city.”
The bullshit is palpable, isn’t it. This is normally the point where if it was a lefty politician the media would back right off and say to the 90% of people who don’t know politics exists and the real, “in-depth” news is proclaimed 6-7:30 PM weeknights, oh, right then, sorry. However they won’t do that, this time. I guarantee it. Doesn’t Banks even know how the media work in this country? Crikey.
So obviously the recording of that phone call is somewhere on the Echelon database and since the Nats are in power and Key is GCHQ Minister it’s unlikely that copy will be handed over, but it’s quite risky isn’t it to imagine a technology multi-millionaire would never have made a recording of all his phone calls as a matter of practice, I mean, why not. Perhaps Banks is calculating Dotcom is hardly going to lay himself open to further legal issues arising from illegal recording at this particular moment in time but hey, an anonymous source untraceable from say a Ukrainian server and Banks is history. And Dotcom is pissed, you can see that. He’s not going to go away on this.
So on balance is this a good move or a dumb move, by Banks?
It’s a risky move, that’s for sure. I bet he doesn’t sleep very well tonight.
Accusations of nutjobbery are amusing coming from someone who claimed in a post above that the Bible says God created the world in six thousand years!
What I find amusing are arrogant but baseless allegations made from positions of ignorance such as 100% of comments about what Christians supposedly think coming from people who aren’t and/or who’ve never been Christians. For those guilty of this who don’t know what I mean then use this analogy, dummy. Read what phil says about conservatives and think to yourself, is he right or is he wrong, about that. That’s what YOU are like, with Christians.
Idiots. All of you, who do this. Why the fuck don’t you grow a brain, you fucking morons. I mean you’re so fucking stupid you probably don’t even understand how I can both swear and be a Christian, do you. No, I didn’t think so. Fucking arrogant wankers.
Banks is now looking a bit dodgy on this. The prime minister gave him a claytons endorsement – basically saying as yet I have no evidence to fire him but if you do go to the police with it.
Lets for a moment say banks has broken the rules – does key fire him and risk loosing ACT support or does Banks get ousted from parliament leaving National to contest and win a by election
“What I find amusing are arrogant but baseless allegations made from positions of ignorance such as 100% of comments about what Christians supposedly think coming from people who aren’t and/or who’ve never been Christians.”
I agree with you. Most of the conversations I have had with posters like Griff have revealed that most internet anti-Christian ranters like him do not have a clue what real Christianity does and has taught.
They go to a few rabid atheist sites, pull a few contexteless quotes out of the Bible, and think they know what they are talking about. Griff cannot even get the Bible right (six thousand years!).
It is largely pointless debating with them. Debating with a retarded raccoon would be a better use of time.
Idiots. All of you, who do this. Why the fuck don’t you grow a brain, you fucking morons. I mean you’re so fucking stupid you probably don’t even understand how I can both swear and be a Christian, do you. No, I didn’t think so. Fucking arrogant wankers.
With form like that I’m surprised you’ve lasted long enough to chalk up 10,504 posts without getting banned
I’m even more surprised that I’ve never noticed a poster called Leaping Jimmy before now. Has that always been your name?
[Oh and as long as you want laws in New Zealand to be based on the teachings of your invisible, imaginary creator spirit, people who just don't believe in your invisible imaginary creator spirit are going to ask "why?"]
Lets for a moment say banks has broken the rules – does key fire him and risk loosing ACT support or does Banks get ousted from parliament leaving National to contest and win a by election
On lefty radio weekly politics they mentioned Shearer’s suggestion: to stand him down until this is sorted. This seems a sensible compromise. Key has to be seen to be doing something otherwise National risks losing the high ground from Liarbore when it did what it did over Field and Peters. The Nats cannot afford to lose that because it is a genuine point of difference and one thing is for sure, that Liarbore will do the same thing again, that wasn’t a Hulun trait, it was a Liarbore trait (mostly because their tame media makes them think they will get away with it – they fail to understand the ‘can’t fool ALL the people ALL the time’ angle which is what tripped them up in 2007).
Oh and as long as you want public policy in New Zealand to be based on the teachings of your invisible, imaginary creator spirit, people who just don’t believe in your invisible imaginary creator spirit are going to ask “why?”
Yes and that’s fine but that’s not what I was referring to above, is it. And who said I wanted that, anyway?
["Oh and as long as you want laws in New Zealand to be based on the teachings of your invisible, imaginary creator spirit, people who just don't believe in your invisible imaginary creator spirit are going to ask "why?"]
Oh dear. Where to begin? Most of the basic laws in New Zealand already ARE based on Christian principles. That has been the case in the West for over a thousand years. Your a little late to be worrying about it.
And as long as you want laws in New Zealand to be based on imaginary fantasies like secularism, humanism and Marxism, people who don’t believe in your new gods are going to ask “why?”.
“And as long as you want laws in New Zealand to be based on imaginary fantasies like secularism, humanism and Marxism, people who don’t believe in your new gods are going to ask “why?””
One true god
Which bunch of nutjobs do have the one true god
seems it comes in flavors
your average jewish original one true god him of the smiting and creation and all that goat herder beget goat herder stuff
the improved Cristian fundie version the sort pastor pedo preaches
Or the new and improved goat fucking kill the infidels Muslim type
Then you mix in all the different version of each
you orthodox Jew,Mormon,JW , shite ad infinitum
You now there may be an outside chance that one of these Many groups are right
That proves that all the rest are wrong
So after you have decided among yourself
No cancel that idea thats wot most wars on earth boil down to
lets just stick to you are all nut-jobs far simpler
If you don’t know, then you not really in a position to discuss the issue. Discussing an issue requires you know the subject.
“The only teaching of Jesus worth mentioning is the golden rule. And plenty of much older religions than Christianity teach that.”
The only one worth mentioning? Wow. Ignorance is bliss eh Jesus taught a great deal, and much of it has entered into the legal systems and cultural framework of the West.
The West is Christian at its base, and no amount of selective historical memory failure can change that.
“Human decency and a sense of natural justice is where our laws come from.”
Historically untrue. Most laws in the West were based on Christian laws and values, and while some were also based on older pagan systems, such as the Roman civil code, the reality is that Christianity has been the primary political, legal and cultural influence for over a thousand years in the West. Pretending that is/was not the case is simple ignorance, or a lack of educatiom, or both.
Chattel slavery only became common practice in the Christian West after the 1500′s and largely for ecomnomic reasons, not religious ones. It was not common prior to that largely because of the Church, while it was common everywhere else. And it was Christians who led the opposition to it.
….Chattel slavery, so named because people are treated as the personal property, chattels, of an owner and are bought and sold as commodities, is the original form of slavery………………………………………
In 1452, Pope Nicholas V issued the papal bull Dum Diversas, granting the kings of Spain and Portugal the right to reduce any “Saracens, pagans and any other unbelievers” to perpetual slavery, legitimizing the slave trade as a result of war.[40] The approval of slavery under these conditions was reaffirmed and extended in his Romanus Pontifex bull of 1455.
Thats just a quick flick through wiki, the church was up to its nuts in it and many of William Wilberforces mates happily trotted off to Sunday service after checking the returns from busines’s worked by slaves,
six thousand years http://www.missiontoamerica.com/genesis/six-thousand-years.html
“The Bible provides a complete genealogy from Adam to Jesus. You can go through the genealogies and add up the years. You’ll get a total that is just over 4,000 years. Add the 2,000 years since the time of Jesus and you get just over 6,000 years since God created everything.
Is there anything wrong with figuring out the age of the earth this way? No. There is nothing to indicate the genealogies are incomplete. There is nothing to indicate God left anything out. There is nothing in the Bible that indicates in any way that the world is much older than 6,000 years old”
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
American King James Version
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Gee must be the other sect U guys belong to then
nothing like bible interpretation to start a war over
Well he had quite a few people sucking up to him on realising that his determination to eradicate slavery was gathering steam. Probably not ‘mates’ though Paul. Most of his mates were helping him in his quest.
I think PEB’s point may have been along the lines of don’t credit Christianity for Wilberforce’s campaign when many of his fellow Christians were obviously very comfortable with slavery
The point KK was that christians have been slavers for centuries not as Lee tried to disavow earlier, if you make braod generalizations there will be always someone with bugger all to do for an hour to disprove it
The point KK was that christians have been slavers for centuries
No, Paul, the point is that slavers were ‘Christians’ because back then everyone was a ‘Christian’. Doctors, sailors, brothel keepers, MPs, thieves, merchants, bankers etc. However subtly, to attempt to cast modern day Christians as supportive of evil that existed 200 years ago is somewhat disingenuous. Obviously a hot topic for me given my heritage.
I think PEB’s point may have been along the lines of don’t credit Christianity for Wilberforce’s campaign
And that’s a fair point. Wilberforce was a good man. Arguably his faith may have contributed to that, but at the end of the day he did what he felt was moral, right and just as a human.
Pauleastbay – It’s probably too complicated a subject to get quick answers for.
I think a lot of people have the wrong idea about what “slavery” is in the Bible. This is from what I have read, anyway. Jews were only allowed to take thieves or enemies as ‘slaves’. I think this is the equivalent of our prison system today? We deprive people of their freedom, force them into labour (breaking rocks, it used to be, or making license plates) for a certain number of years. In other words, they are slaves of the State.
None of the books of Scripture were intended to be treatises on social institutions, nor philosophical works, for which reason “slavery” is not defined as such anywhere therein. Suffice it to say, however, that there is ample evidence that slavery involved a withdrawal of several freedoms (in varying degrees for different people) and an enforced servitude to either a person or a household, usually for six years.(Ex 21: 2, Deut 15:12) Slaves were bought and sold without any apparent guilt on the part of the persons involved.
The first instance of slavery in the Bible consists of Noah’s punishment of his son Canaan for some serious sexual sin (the details of which are unknown): “Cursed be Canaan; a slave of slaves shall he be to his brothers.”(Gen 9: 27). Slavery, then, was in the first Biblical instance a punishment for some grievous sin. Generally this was the rule of the Law, with an exception to be noted below. Thus theives and enemies of the Jews could be made slaves,(cf. Ex 22:2; 2 Chr 28:8-15) but a Jew who arbitrarily took a slave would be punished by death.(Ex 21: 16)
Nevertheless, we in our slavery to sin cannot imagine there being so harsh a punishment as the loss of freedom and forced labor over the course of years. This is why life in many of our prisons in the western world has become so comfortable -indeed luxurious- in comparison with the life our poor and middle classes live. A criminal can obtain university degrees, watch television, get good meals, have water and plumbing looked after, and enjoy other comforts without having to pay a thing. Not long ago, it was the norm that a criminal was truly and justly deprived of his freedom, of his family, of comforts, and forced into unpaid labor for years. That is to say, a vile criminal was made to be a slave to society. Our justice system, then, as far as it remains, is seen to support and insist upon this slavery, and quite rightly so from the point of view of real justice. For this reason, Scripture is seen to operate within justice, in making real criminals slaves.
The Law of the Jews, as the laws of our prisons, afforded the slave certain rights and corresponding protections. The master of a slave would, according to the Law, be punished for killing him (the manner and degree of which is unspecified in written tradition).(Ex 21:20) If a master caused a woman slave to miscarry, there would be a fine determined by the woman’s husband, and “If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”(Ex 21: 22-23) Slaves would rest on the sabbath day (Ex 20: 8-11) and be restored to freedom after six years of servitude (except for non-Jews, which shall be discussed later). In these things, then, the Jewish Law on slavery is quite comparable to the slavery with which criminals in our society have been and still are frequently punished.
In any case, after Pope Nicholas V, the Popes thereafter condemned slavery,
But then, about ten years later, the Church revised its position becoming one of the first groups to condemn slavery.
+ In 1462, Pius II declared slavery to be “a great crime” (magnum scelus). Note that this was 30 years before Columbus “discovered” America.
+ In 1537, Paul III forbade the enslavement of the Indians
+ Urban VIII forbade it in 1639
+ Benedict XIV forbade it in 1741
+ Pius VII demanded of the Congress of Vienna, in 1815, the suppression of the slave trade
+ Gregory XVI condemned it in 1839
+ In the Bull of Canonization of the Jesuit Peter Claver, one of the most illustrious adversaries of slavery, Pius IX branded the “supreme villainy” (summum nefas) of the slave traders.
+ Leo XIII, in 1888, addressed a letter to the Brazilian bishops, exhorting them to banish from their country the remnants of slavery — a letter to which the bishops responded with their most energetic efforts, and some generous slave-owners by freeing their slaves in a body, as in the first ages of the Church.
As I said to begin with, it’s probably too complicated a subject to answer without doing a fair amount of research, but this is what I’ve read so far.
Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord
Wiki
Young Earth creationism (YEC) is the religious belief[1] that the Universe, Earth, and all life on Earth were created by direct acts of the Abrahamic God during a relatively short period, sometime between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago.[2] Its primary adherents are Christians and Jews[3] who believe that God created the Earth in six 24-hour days, taking a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative as a basis for their beliefs.[4][5]
“When asked for their views on the origin and development of human beings, between 40% and 50% of adults in the United States say they share the beliefs of young Earth creationism, depending on the poll”
Well fuck me seems that the f undies in this “godzown country”
Have titanically different beliefs about creation as the teaming masses of f undies in the good old USA.
Why don’t we have a religious war over it. such a difference should be worth at least a few high profile excommunications and cutting of all diplomatic relations
Oh thats right Christians no longer have any say at all in nz
Thank GOD for that
April 30th, 2012 at 7:06 pm
…
to attempt to cast modern day Christians as supportive of evil that existed 200 years ago is somewhat disingenuous…………………………….
The old I’m more christian than them argument ah. …….. now thats disengenuous.
The thing is you have your belief system good on you , I have mine, but please don’t use your belief system as backing for an argument.
I happen to believe that a certain rock off our coast is higher in the chain than me but I’m not going to attempt to use that as proof to back any argument here or any where
The Catholic Church unhesitatingly condemned racial slavery as soon as it began. In 1435, six decades before Columbus sailed, Pope Eugene IV condemned the enslavement of the black natives of the Canary Islands, and ordered their European masters to manumit the enslaved within 15 days, under pain of excommunication. In 1537, Pope Paul III condemned the enslavement of West Indian and South American natives, and explicitly attributed that evil, “unheard of before now,” to “the enemy of the human race,” Satan.
In May 1537 (DS 1495) Pope Paul III wrote to the Archbishop of Toledo:
It has come to our ears. . . that Charles [V] the [Holy] Roman Emperor … to repress those who, eager for gain have an inhuman attitude to the human race, has prohibited by public edict that anyone should presume to reduce to slavery the Western or Southern Indians. … we give orders that. . . to all and each one of any dignity whatsoever … you give strict orders under penalty of automatic excommunication … that they must not in any way presume to reduce the Indians we mentioned into slavery …
Papal condemnations of slavery were repeated by Popes Gregory XIV (1591), Urban VIII (1639), Innocent XI (1686), Benedict XIV (1741), and Piux VII (1815). In 1839, Pope Gregory XVI wrote,
We, by apostolic authority, warn and strongly exhort… that no one in the future dare to bother unjustly, despoil of their possessions, or reduce to slavery Indians, Blacks or other such peoples.
So who was more “enlightened”?: the slave-holding, Unitarian Thomas Jefferson, or the Catholic Church (popes) of 873, 1435, and 1537? Once again, the truth is far different from the myth. You can blame the early Protestants, perhaps (and this might explain the late maintenance of the evil in the Baptist / Methodist / Presbyterian Bible Belt South), but your argument against the Catholic Church falls flat.
Well, obviously the Catholic Church lacked influence over the Spanish as they conquered South America and enslaved the people there. At least the Popes issued a few edicts though…
Although most authors argue that there has been a shift in Church teaching over the last two millennia from acceptance and toleration of slavery to opposition, some Catholic writers reject this claim, insisting that there has been no such change in the Magisterium. One reason for this insistence is that authors who argue that the Magisterium has changed have pointed to this purported shift in teaching as setting a precedent that Church teaching has changed to be compatible with changes in social mores and morality.[117] As a result, historical interpretation of the Church’s teaching on slavery over the last two millennia has become controversial between those who would change the Church’s teaching in other areas and those who resist such changes— in effect, a debate between those who hold to the Church’s doctrine of indefectibility and those that reject the Church’s claims.
Cardinal Avery Dulles makes the following observations about the Catholic Church and the institution of slavery
For many centuries the Church was part of a slave-holding society.
The popes themselves held slaves, including at times hundreds of Muslim captives to man their galleys.
Throughout Christian antiquity and the Middle Ages, theologians generally followed St. Augustine in holding that although slavery was not written into the natural moral law it was not absolutely forbidden by that law.
St. Thomas Aquinas, Luther, and Calvin were all Augustinian on this point. Although the subjection of one person to another (servitus) was not part of the primary intention of the natural law, St. Thomas taught, it was appropriate and socially useful in a world impaired by original sin.
No Father or Doctor of the Church was an unqualified abolitionist.
No pope or council ever made a sweeping condemnation of slavery as such.
But they constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.[18]
Theologian Laennec Hurbon asserted that no Pope before 1890 condemned all forms of slavery, asserting that, “. .. one can search in vain through the interventions of the Holy See-those of Pius V, Urban VIII and Benedict XIV-for any condemnation of the actual principle of slavery.”[118]
In a modern work that denies any fundamental change in the church’s teaching over the centuries, Father Joel Panzer writes:
The development of [the Church's teaching regarding slavery] over the span of nearly five centuries was occasioned by the unique and illicit form of servitude that accompanied the Age of Discovery. The just titles to servitude were not rejected by the Church, but rather were tolerated for many reasons. This in no way invalidates the clear and consistent teaching against the unjust slavery that came to prevail in Africa and the Western Hemisphere, first in Central and South America and then in the United States, for approximately four centuries.[118]
The “servitude” that Panzer describes allows, subject to certain conditions, the buying, selling and exchange of other human beings as described in the Holy Office decree of 1866 and he believes this has been the constant teaching of Popes down through the ages.[119] Maxwell (1975) argues against a very rigid understanding of Papal texts, and their immutability, noting that torture was also once sanctioned by Papal decree.[120] Pope John Paul II in 1995 “in the name of the whole Church” forbade the selling of women and children.[121]
In his 1975 work on slavery, John F. Maxwell wrote that the Church did not correct its teaching on the moral legitimacy of slavery until 1965, with the publication, from the Second Vatican Council, of Gaudium et Spes (The Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World).[118] Judge John T. Noonan, Jr. has argued that slavery is one of the areas in which the Church has changed its moral teaching to suit the times, and that this change did not take place until 1890 when, he asserted, the Church finally condemned the institution of slavery, lagging behind laws which had already been enacted to outlaw the practice.[122] In a book edited by Charles Curran, Diana Hayes also concludes that there was a change in the church’s teaching, which she places in the 1880s.[123]
Dulles characterizes Noonan’s thesis as being that “social change makes it possible for Christians to overcome the blindness that had previously afflicted their moral vision”. According to Dulles, Noonan finds that the Church has changed its doctrine, in many cases, effecting “an about-face, repudiating the erroneous past teaching of the magisterium itself.”[18] However, Dulles asserts that Noonan “fails to establish that the Church has reversed her teaching in any of the four areas he examines”.
Vic Biorseth argues that “In all of recorded history, there is no such thing as a matter of faith and morals on which the Holy Roman Catholic Church has ever changed its teaching.”[124] Rodney Stark presents evidence to refute the allegations that the Catholic Church did not oppose slavery until relatively recently.[9] Stark makes no mention in his essay of the pro-slavery texts issued by Popes in the past nor does Father Panzer who he uses as a source. Maxwell (1975) asserts that it has been difficult for Catholic historians to write impartially on this subject. By way of example he notes texts of Pope Leo XIII who singled out for praise twelve previous Popes who made every effort to end slavery. Maxwell then points out that five of the mentioned Popes actually authorized slavery but suggests the error could be due to the Popes “ghost writers”. Hugh Thomas, author of “The Slave Trade” is critical of the New Catholic Encyclopedia through its “misleading” account of Papal condemnation of slavery.[125] Maxwell (1975) describes the situation as the historical “whitewashing” of the Churches involvement in slavery.[126]
Father John Francis Maxwell in 1975 published “The Catholic Church and Slavery”, a book that was the product of seven years research. It recorded the instances were slavery was sanctioned by Councils and Popes and also censures and prohibitions that have been recorded throughout the history of the Church. He explains what appears to the layman, not familiar with the intricacies of Church teaching and law, that what seems contradictory teaching, often involving the same Pope, is actually only a reflection of the common and longstanding concept of permissible “just slavery”, and “unjust slavery” which was subject to condemnation. He shows by numerous examples from Council and Papal documents that “just slavery” was always an acceptable part of Catholic teaching right up until the end of the 19th century when the first steps were taken to place all forms of slavery under the ban. Since “just” slavery had been allowed by previous Councils and Popes he saw the declaration of slavery as an unconditional “infamy” in the Second Vatican Council pastoral constitution “Gaudium et spes” as a correction to what had been previously been allowed, but not promulgated as infallible teaching. Pope John Paul II in his encyclical “EVANGELIUM VITAE” (1995),when repeating the list of infamies that included slavery, prefaced the passage in “Gaudium es spes” with “ ..Thirty years later, taking up the words of the Council and with the same forcefulness I repeat that condemnation in the name of the whole Church, certain that I am interpreting the genuine sentiment of every upright conscience..”
there were papal bulls 1452, Pope Nicholas V and his Romanus Pontifex bull of 1455.
socrates blogspots blog seems to have convieniently missed this out
By the way saracens were a racial group who happened to be muslims
Bloody impressive JB and you did’nt even need spell check
Starting to read some of the links above, and I think this is interesting….
Scholars in Cultural Anthropology are sensitive to this as well, and point out that New World slavery was quite unique, historically:
“Scholars do not agree on a definition of “slavery.” The term has been used at various times for a wide range of institutions, including plantation slavery, forced labor, the drudgery of factories and sweatshops, child labor, semivoluntary prostitution, bride-price marriage, child adoption for payment, and paid-for surrogate motherhood. Somewhere within this range, the literal meaning of “slavery” shifts into metaphorical meaning, but it is not entirely clear at what point. A similar problem arises when we look at other cultures. The reason is that the term “Slavery” is evocative rather than analytical, calling to mind a loose bundle of diagnostic features. These features are mainly derived from the most recent direct Western experience with slavery, that of the southern United States, the Caribbean, and Latin America. The present Western image of slavery has been haphazardly constructed out of the representations of that experience in nineteenth-century abolitionist literature, and later novels, textbooks, and films…From a global cross-cultural and historical perspective, however, New World slavery was a unique conjunction of features…In brief, most varieties of slavery did not exhibit the three elements that were dominant in the New World: slaves as property and commodities; their use exclusively as labor; and their lack of freedom…”
In other words, when one talks about “slavery”, we tend to associate it with the form we see in the Southern United States, etc, which was quite unique. ‘Slavery’ has meant many different things historically.
There once was a Father named Bings
Who preached of God and such things
But his secret desire was a lad in the choir
With an arse like jelly on springs.
So the churches slavery wasn’t as bad as the plantation owners, Ok why didn’t I see that.
and from above
….….Chattel slavery, so named because people are treated as the personal property, chattels, of an owner and are bought and sold as commodities, is the original form of slavery………………………………………
I wasn’t even asked to be an alter boy, wrong type of family evidently, scarred me evidently as well
How many children were actually abused by priests? Any at all is bad, but it’s not as many as you might think, as Brendan O’Neill points out –
Last week the UK Independent reported that in America, ‘over 10,000 people have come forward to say they were raped as part of this misery-go-round’ overseen by His Holiness and His Lackeys. In Ireland alone, a tiny country of 4.5million people, ‘Thousands were raped in reform schools’, said a British broadsheet headline last year, ramming home the ugly truth of how many kids have been raped by the Catholic Church’s army of paedophile priests.
But how true is this ugly truth? Were 10,000 children in America and thousands more in Ireland really raped by Catholic priests? In a word, no. Instead, what has happened is that in the increasingly caliginous, almost Inquisitorial mindset of sections of the New Atheist anti-pope lobby, every allegation of abuse against a Catholic priest – whether it involved sex talk or fondling or actual penile penetration – has been lumped together under the heading of ‘rape’, and every allegation has been described as an actual proven ‘rape’ regardless of whether it resulted in a legal trial, never mind a conviction.
The term ‘paedophile priest’ has become such a part of everyday cultural lingo that most people, when they read in last week’s relatively respectable UK Independent that ‘over 10,000 children have come forward to say they were raped [by Catholic priests]’, would probably think, ‘Yeah, that’s possible’. But it isn’t true. The Independent was referring to a study commissioned in 2002 by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, which was published in 2004 under the heading ‘The Nature and Scope of the Problem of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Catholic Priests and Deacons in the United States’. This study covered the period of 1950 to 2002, and it did indeed find that 10,000 individuals in the US – 10,667, to be precise – had made allegations of sexual abuse against priests (against 4,392 priests in total, around four per cent of the 109,694 Catholic priests active in the US between 1950 and 2002). But this doesn’t mean that these 10,000 ‘[came] forward to say they were raped’.
The 10,667 made various allegations, ranging from verbal abuse (being forced to indulge in sex talk) to being shown pornography to being touched by a priest over or under their clothing. Then there were the more serious allegations, which included being coerced into mutual masturbation, oral sex and, in some instances, rape. Yet where 3,553 of the individuals claimed to have been touched over their clothing and 3,981 to have been touched under their clothing, a smaller number claimed to have been subjected to what is described in the report as ‘penile penetration or attempted penile penetration’, that is rape or attempted rape; 990 boys and 213 girls made this allegation – a total of 1,203 individuals, not 10,000.
Moreover, if we are serious about such Enlightened ideals as justice and equality before the law, then we have to accept the fact that not all of these allegations were ultimately proven to be true. Out of the 10,000-plus allegations made against priests in America, 3,300 were not investigated at all because they were made after the accused priest had died (surely even the most riled anti-pope commentator accepts that a man who is no longer around to defend himself cannot be convicted of a crime). Of the 4,392 priests in America who were accused of sexual abuse in the period of 1950 to 2002, 1,021 were investigated by the police, and of these, 384 were charged, of whom 252 were convicted. So around six per cent of all American priests who had allegations made against them were finally convicted. (Of course there are many reasons for this relatively tiny number of convictions: some alleged victims were pressured to keep quiet; some (25 per cent in the US) didn’t make their allegations for more than 30 years after the alleged incident occurred; and in some instances there was just a lack of evidence.)
So nothing like 10,000 individuals in America ‘say they were raped’ by Catholic priests. In truth, 1,203 made this allegation. And not all of them resulted in a conviction. Every allegation of rape should be treated seriously, of course, but what happened to the idea of innocent until proven guilty? How did a complex US report about all manner of allegations against priests come to be translated in the words of the Independent into the idea that ‘over 10,000 people have come forward to say they were raped [by priests]’? Because in the outlook of certain sections of the intolerant New Atheist lobby, everything from sex talk to fondling to being shown a porn flick is ‘rape’ – if it’s done by a priest, that is – and every priest is guilty of what he is accused of despite the question of whether or not he was convicted in a court of law.
He goes on in the article to talk about a similar situation with the numbers in connection to Ireland.
By ICAO methodology, a passenger flying a round trip between Brussels and New Delhi emits 884.59 kg of CO2 in economy; 1,769.18 kg of CO2 in premium.
Remember, this is the same aircraft, traveling the same route. Pfffft. It’s nothing more than regressive taxation based on post-modern science.
China is objecting to the EU-ETS being extended to aviation. It suspended Airbus orders worth $14 billion in March. I wonder how many jobs that cost the French company? Further, Air Asia X was the first airline to stop flight to Europe because of the EU-ETS.,
I’m pretty sure Fletch’s defence of those catholic priests against accusations of buggery is as good as his defence of the church agasint accusations it endorsed slavery.
Its still alot , I went through the entire catholic system and never got touched and never earnt a quid out of it but my mother is lucky enough to have a a cousin, a pedophile Brother who copped 8 years a few years ago. he assaulted many many many many many many boys over decades. the church knew of this offending and they did what? they moved him to Rome and made him a kitchen hand!!!!!!!!!!!!! true story. Mum loves me telling it.
Now thats just one example, like I said I went through the catholic system for my entire primary and secondary education this was in the 60′s and 70′s. I don’t know how old you are but even then the church was not someone my parents would ever challenge, it got away with shit loads solely because they were the church and they had been brought up to believe what was said went.
So don’t get all defensive when we have a crack, its happened and will continual to happen because the church has been a haven for homosexual young men and until they get organised and allow their priests to ahve a life and marry, numbers and candidates will stay the same.
mikenmild, I’m not defending Catholic priests who are abusers. I think that is terrible and should be punished; however, when the above article looks at the real numbers, and that only 6% of priests charged have been convicted (252 priests from the years 1950 to 2002), I take umbrage with the media purposely giving the Church a bad, name when “… the physical sexual abuse of students in [public] schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by [Catholic] priests.”, according to the Shakeshaft report commissioned by the Department of Education in the U.S in 2004.
Suddenly the rate of abuse in the Church (which, of course, should be nil) is looking pretty good compared to the rest of society… You’re more likely to have been abused by a teacher, a family member, or a scout master, than by a priest.
The first instance of slavery in the Bible consists of Noah’s punishment of his son Canaan for some serious sexual sin (the details of which are unknown): “Cursed be Canaan; a slave of slaves shall he be to his brothers.”(Gen 9: 27).
Unknown? What Bible are you guys reading?
Genisis 9:22 When Ham, the father of Canaan, saw that his father was naked, he went and told his two brothers.
That was the sin, he alerted his brothers to their father’s drunk and naked condition, hence their efforts to cover him and avert their eyes.
The priest that married me and my wife had the hots for her younger sister, chucked it in and went back to the family farm, when he got called for it by the mother in law PEB.
Time the Pope let them do some legal rooting methinks.
Kk
seems to fail to understand that the premium you pay on an aircraft flight for first class reflects the amount of cost that U accrue the airline
Part of this cost is the simple fact that U can carry less first class customers than in cattle class
Hence the amount of fuel burned per person increases for first class passengers
making the carbon emission per KM greater
Which is sad he might have been a good priest and husband. A friend from school was a priest for 10 years but chucked it because he just got so fucking lonely, happily married now with a family – one life be happy
griff, you seem to fail the understand that the supposed Co2 emissions of a flight should be roughly divided equally over the fare-paying passengers.
That some travellers want champange, like being sucked up to by feather pillow carrying attendants, and the fancy chance at joining the mile-high club, while others are prepared to sit in hell for 14 hours to keep costs down is irrelevant.
How are those crayons lasting? Can I send you some more?
Sarky would have been……….fuck that was just fucking awesome who would have thought….. no that would have been smart arsed and I wasn’t being that either
There’s a distinction between religion and how people practice religion. An extremely clear one. Many people don’t even know that it even exists, let alone correctly apply that distinction in their analyses when it is appropriate. For example many people get tripped up on this when thinking about Muslims. For some reason, based on their comments, it’s impossible for some people to separate in their minds the thoughts of human beings who happen to be Muslim from what some individuals do, in the name of Islam. They never appear even to realise there is a distinction. Happens all the time and is appallingly ignorant.
Very sad, both for society in terms of getting to the truth of the matter divorced from the propaganda of it and also for those who can’t wrap their tiny little minds around such a basic concept as that.
So always being a fucking nice sort of a chap, as I have always been, makes me very holy as opposed to all those bloody religious bigots that contaminate society with their dogma!
I always believed that was the truth, (and the way and the light).
Leaping Jimmy – Idiots. All of you, who do this. Why the fuck don’t you grow a brain, you fucking morons. I mean you’re so fucking stupid you probably don’t even understand how I can both swear and be a Christian, do you. No, I didn’t think so. Fucking arrogant wankers.
OK – I’ll risk being named a fucking moron …
How can you both express yourself as quoted above and be a Christian?
Perhaps in the context of Matthew 25:45
Shit the brains of a fish
YOU CAN CARRY LESS !ST CASS CUSTOMER PER CUBIC METER OF PLANE
IT COSTS MORE FUEL PER IST CLASS CUSTOMER
You did do simple math at one stage did you not
mayhap its time for a little refresher course year five should do you to start
just to remind you your original statement started with
By ICAO methodology, a passenger flying a round trip between Brussels and New Delhi emits 884.59 kg of CO2 in economy; 1,769.18 kg of CO2 in premium.
Remember, this is the same aircraft, traveling the same route. Pfffft. It’s nothing more than regressive taxation based on post-modern science”.
Seems its not regressive taxation seems its kg of co2 per customer and a !st class customer burns more co2
do you understand now
Nutjobs at least some understand they are, some have no idea.
YOU CAN CARRY LESS !ST CASS CUSTOMER PER CUBIC METER OF PLANE
Ah, so looking beyond the the shouting… now I get it. I really do. Based on the griff-method, if the plane is half empty I should pay more carbon tax? If I’m the only person in a 1st class of 12 seats, I should pay 12x the absurd 1st class rate? Riiiiight. Genius.
Don’t bother kk, Griff is always right….
1. He shouts.
2. He insults.
3. He uses every logical fallacy in the book.
4. He can’t keep his story straight from one day to the next.
But he is always right.
“By ICAO methodology, a passenger flying a round trip between Brussels and New Delhi emits 884.59 kg of CO2 in economy; 1,769.18 kg of CO2 in premium.”
Of course on the return trip, after spending a week in New Delhi eating the local curry, the very same passenger emits an additional 500kg of methane so the fare should be doubled on the DEL/BRU leg.
How can you both express yourself as quoted above and be a Christian?
Puzzled, thanks for asking. Why would I insult you for that?
In the context of Mat 25:45, which (for others’ benefit), needs to be read in the context of the whole chapter and is about the judgement of nations, I use it for shock value because these days, one cannot communicate the same way one used to, even going back to the way we used to communicate in the 80′s. It’s a shame and I think it’s moving in the wrong direction and has been this way for 100+ years, but this is, as you know, not God’s world but Satan’s world, and Satan is not called the slanderer and the deceiver for nothing.
I’m not suggesting by any means I would do this on a public street but on a blog it has two effects: it prompts readership from amongst the dross and more importantly and mainly why I do it, makes it memorable.
If I were brainier I’m sure I could find a more civilised way to make the points I make without using it the way I do, I briefly considered deleting the 2nd para from my post, since the first was fine. However I decided to leave it in, to see what happened, given the fact that any thinking, by anyone, on this subject, is worthwhile.
Why bother
altie nutjobs can not get that the co2 tax is on the amount of co2 it takes to fly you
for a guide to the extra space in first class http://www.businesstravellogue.com/flying-first-class
“More Space
First and foremost, the First Class cabin in any airplane is going to afford you loads more personal space. The First Class section generally will fit two seats where economy squeezes three or more, so you can be guaranteed of having more room to spread out sideways in First Class. Additionally, the rows are spaced much further apart, so you will get lots more leg room as well.”
That would be at least twice the space Hence twice the fuel for each first class passenger hence the different charges per passenger depending on first business or cattle class
That is not regressive taxation Its straight out co2 per km
a beak like that and a member of the labour party, can tolerate the beak as I’ve got a pretty good gut going but the labour party , thats the deal breaker.
Womanhood and the labour party in the same sentence is an oxymoron, three weeks puuh. I’ve gone 52 years with out having sex with anyone from the labour party
A car drives a 1000 km
There is the driver and two passengers.
The car emits 8 kg of CO2.
Griff logic….
The driver has to pay for 2 kg of CO2
The passenger next to him has to pay for 2 kg of CO2.
The other passenger has to pay for 4 kg of CO2 because he occupies twice the space.
Question on the side:
If there are four people in the car, will the emissions be lower or higher compared with three?
Other altie
Would be the sort of tosser who drives a 735 BMW and bitchers that the guy going past in the bambina pays less fuel tax than him
They both breath the same amount of air and drive on the same road just because his heap of german shit is big why should he pay more fuel tax
Altie logic no wonder so many of them are also f undie mentalist
;
Metal thieves in the Czech Republic dismantled an entire 10-ton bridge and more than 650ft of track.
The gang reportedly arrived at a depot in Slavkov, in the east of the country, with forged paperwork claiming that the footbridge over the disused railway track had to come down.
A Railways spokesman, Pavel Halla, said the cost of the theft was worth millions.
“The thieves said they had been hired to demolish the bridge, and remove the unwanted railway track to make way for a new cycle route,” he said.
We should find these guys, give them flights to NZ and work visas. It would piss the greenies off majorly, and we’d get some cycleways. I’d be happy
The National ‘B’ Team (Brash – now Banks) ACT hostile takeover has now arguably completely ‘trainwrecked’ the ACT brand.
ACT now stands for
A ssociated with
C rooks and
T hieves ?
There is a very big, murky, smelly, swirling, dirty whirlpool that is going to engulf ‘dodgy John Banks’ and sweep him out of Parliament and possibly into prison, if the electoral fraud allegations are eventually proven, following the official Police investigation which Detective Inspector Mark Benefield confirmed started yesterday Monday 30 April 2012.
The longer ‘shonky John Key’ continues to stand by ‘dodgy John Banks’ – the worse it will be both of them.
I’m looking forward to the Police finally taking some meaningful action against, whom in my opinion, is the yet-to-be charged /convicted ‘white collar’ criminal currently holding the balance of power in NZ – ‘perceived’ to be the least corrupt country in the world – the current Minister of Regulatory Reform and current Leader of the ACT Party, ACT MP for Epsom – John Banks.
How long is the ‘perceived’ political protection of John Banks by Prime Minister John Key going to continue?
Is THAT why John Banks (and Don Brash) were never charged as former fellow Directors of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd, for signing Huljich Kiwisaver Registered Prospectuses dated 22 August 2008 and 18 September 2009 – because of
political protection of John Banks by Prime Minister John Key?
Because THAT’S how it looks to me.
Why is Prime Minister John Key continuing to defend the indefensible?
I predict a big, fat dose of ‘karma payback’ – that John Banks will end up getting the same treatment as Kim Dotcom……
ie: One minute – you’re the rooster.
Nek minnit – you’re the feather duster………..
I look forward to the future Epsom by-election, where I predict a large national and international spotlight will focus on how little genuine transparency exists in New Zealand, and how desperately we need an ACTION PLAN against ‘white collar’ crime, corruption and ‘corporate welfare’.
Nanny police with little to do. How long did it take to get them to arrive at your burgulary?
Stunt trike daredevils hunted
JESSICA TASMAN-JONES
Last updated 05:00 01/05/2012
Police are hunting a group of Auckland daredevils who have clocked up millions of views on YouTube.
The two minute video, uploaded in late February, shows a group of at least five people racing down North Shore roads on oversized modified tricycles which at times are pulled behind a van on long ropes.
Glimpses of the Auckland city skyline and the Chelsea Sugar Factory in the background suggest the stunt riding was performed around Birkenhead.
In the clip the riders perform daring moves including 360 spins and riding up on two wheels while wearing little safety equipment. Most don’t wear helmets and one is dressed only in shorts and a T-shirt.
The video has over 4.8 million views and has been linked to on the Fox News website.
For fuck sake. NZ needs tourists and no amoun t of money that tourisn NZ can spend will ever get this kind of viewing. Tourism NZ and the Minister for Tourism ,(oh who is that? PM Key) should harness this and load it up with adverts and then tell mr pold to go do some real work arresting real criminals.
Gees I get sick of these plods sometimes. TimeCollins reminded them what they get paid to do.
No doubt some Green inspired policewoman thatis hung up on helmets. This was normal everyday fun once upon a time before the nannies and softcocks got into power. Live life to the full.
Money from the [UK] Department for International Development has helped pay for a controversial programme that has led to miscarriages and even deaths after botched operations
Tens of millions of pounds of UK aid money have been spent on a programme that has forcibly sterilised Indian women and men, the Observer has learned. Many have died as a result of botched operations, while others have been left bleeding and in agony.
::: The UK agreed to give India £166m to fund the programme, despite allegations that the money would be used to sterilise the poor in an attempt to curb the country’s burgeoning population of 1.2 billion people.
:::
Yet a working paper published by the UK’s Department for International Development in 2010 cited the need to fight climate change as one of the key reasons for pressing ahead with such programmes. The document argued that reducing population numbers would cut greenhouse gases, although it warned that there were “complex human rights and ethical issues” involved in forced population control.
Seeing as the GD thread has simply become filled with philu talking about whatever it is he talks about, people complaining about philu, and bereal complaining about people complaining about philu, maybe DPF is giving it a rest today.
Poor teachers could be paid less than competent colleagues under government plans to improve standards of state education.
Ministers want to link pay to performance in the classroom as part of a new drive to improve results and attract the best graduates into the profession.
A cross-party group of MPs today says that a new payment by results system is needed to stop the worst teachers hiding behind a “rigid and unfair” national salary structure.
mm, you (and fairfax) should know better. The ASA doesn’t rule on truth. They simply determine whether claims or assertions breach acceptable standards. In this case I agree with them.
I’m an ardent atheist, but I see this ruling as a breach of the church’s right to freedom of religion and speech. Only a complete idiot could see this billboard as anything other than a religious message promoting a religious organization. The complaint that the billboard suggests “the church can offer something other churches cannot” is unbelievably stupid. All religion is horsepucky and all of them offer some variation of the same nonsense. To require their claims to be reasonable completely negates their ability to freely promote their sincere religious beliefs.
Indeed a new message has been put in its place reading:
“Jesus Heals every Sickness & Every Disease – Matthew 4:23″.
That message has the same substance and meaning as the first so I fail to see how one can be acceptable and the other not. The reality is that people are having a shit fit because they are offended. So fucking what.
It really bugs me that I am on the side of religious kooks and more rational people are advancing the same sort of limits on freedom that the religious kooks usually promote… just because they are “offended”.
The problem is some churches actual believe that they can heal the sick with the laying on of hands or some other piece of superstitions nonsense
There have been cases in NZ were treatment has been denied children because of nut job beliefs of the more fundie of the Cristian sects and that is not only the JWs and their aversion to blood products. let alone the adults sucked into the mumbojumbo and defrauded of money and sanity
Hopefully in the future we will have laws baning the advertisement of Christinsanity. It is a massive destroyer of reason in our society and ! for one would not like to live in a country when the level of scientific knowledge approaches that in the united states of America where almost half the population believe that the world is only six thousand years old! Its only a short step from there to a taliban type scenario
Freedom of speech must be balanced with a freedom from the propagation of out rite lies by commercial entities thats why we have advertising laws
Don’t tell Falafulu Fisi, but a guy at Waikato University is graduating this week with a PhD for studying the ‘everyday bogan’s identity and community amongst heavy metal fans’.
I admit that religion should be declared potentially harmful to the physical & mental health of children but I’d hate to live in a world without a few Bible bashers to afford us a little amusement. Religion, as long as it is practised amongst consenting adults is a fairly benign form of self abuse.
The ones to watch for are those on a conversion kick which is why I always answer my door holding a severed goats head, to let Jehovahs Witnesses know that I already have a healthy religious life.
A someone who recruited out of both NZ and UK educational systems it was pretty obvious that numeracy and literacy in NZ was substantially worse – this is also true of the adult population I have worked with – not sure how the various stats are put together but my bollocks detector has gone off.
PEB
That Patrick Moore interview is pure gold!
He admitted there ‘can be good, free, honourable, decent Germans’ only to add: ‘I haven’t met them myself, but I’m sure they exist.’ He continued: ‘I’m no European. Why? Go to Europe and look around. The Germans tried to conquer us. The French betrayed us. The Belgians did very little and the Italians made us our ice cream’.
I find having a Canis lupus familiaris s pugilitist an effective anti JW and Mormon charm They seem to have the Habit of running away screaming when confronted by it. Strangely enough this charm also works against sundry goblins witches and vampires that congregate in suburbia on hallows eve.
Leading me to a theory that the two groups may be some wot linked. I propose a name for this new phenomenon as nutjob suburbus boutherus
One morning a blind bunny was hopping down the bunny trail and tripped over a large snake and fell, kerplop right on his twitchy little nose.
‘Oh please excuse me,’ said the bunny. ‘I didn’t mean to trip over you, but I’m blind and can’t see.’
‘That’s perfectly all right,’ replied the snake. ‘To be sure, it was my fault. I didn’t mean to trip you, but I’m blind too, and I didn’t see you coming. By the way, what kind of animal are you?’
‘Well, I really don’t know,’ said the bunny.. ‘I’m blind, and I’ve never seen myself. Maybe you could examine me and find out.’
So the snake felt the bunny all over, and he said, ‘Well, you’re soft, and cuddly, and you have long silky ears, and a little fluffy tail and a dear twitchy little nose. You must be a bunny rabbit!’
The bunny said, ‘I can’t thank you enough. But by the way, what kind of animal are you?’
The snake replied that he didn’t know either, and the bunny agreed to examine him, and when the bunny was finished, the snake asked, ‘Well, what kind of an animal am I?’
The bunny had felt the snake all over, and he replied, ‘You’re cold, you’re slippery, and you have no balls…You must be a POLITICIAN’
If you get bothered by JWs & Mormons running away from you when you live on a boat on a swing mooring I suggest that you contact Ghostbusters or look under ‘Exorcisms R us’ in the Yellow Pages.
Walking on water seems a problem for most of us with mortal souls…..anyone capable of sprinting on it could be worth listening to.
The problem is some churches actual believe that they can heal the sick with the laying on of hands or some other piece of superstitions nonsense
There have been cases in NZ were treatment has been denied children because of nut job beliefs of the more fundie of the Cristian sects and that is not only the JWs and their aversion to blood products. let alone the adults sucked into the mumbojumbo and defrauded of money and sanity
Indeed. I tend to think decisions on a child’s healthcare should be taken from the parents if the condition is serious and the parents are ignoring proven remedies on religious grounds. Children are not the property of their parents and their good health is their fundamental right.
Hopefully in the future we will have laws baning the advertisement of Christinsanity. It is a massive destroyer of reason in our society and ! for one would not like to live in a country when the level of scientific knowledge approaches that in the united states of America where almost half the population believe that the world is only six thousand years old! Its only a short step from there to a taliban type scenario
Not sure if the US is that bad. I vaguely recall reports of schools in very conservative areas reverting back to teaching evolution when the public voted out school boards which started teaching intelligent design.
In any case, the desire to have the advertising of Christianity banned seems to reflect very low confidence in the ability of reasonable people to defeat wrong ideas with words rather than legislation. If you can’t convince people with argument alone then there’s no point trying to force an idea upon them as it won’t work.
Freedom of speech must be balanced with a freedom from the propagation of out rite lies by commercial entities thats why we have advertising laws
The Chinese government couldn’t have said it better.
Who decides what is a lie? Complete freedom of contradiction is the only basis upon which a rational person can be confident that their version of the truth is accurate.
The reason we have advertising laws, or at least the reason we should have such laws, is to guard against commercial speech which is misleading. That to me means speech which sells something in such a way that the consumer is misled as to what exactly they are purchasing. That is not speech but is more a form of fraud.
The advertisement in question was clearly a religious message and anyone born on this Earth knows what religion is and what it is all about. It is disingenuous of anyone to suggest that any normal person could be misled by this advertisement. Even if one is motivated by such an advertisement to believe it is true, they still know what it is all about. They know it’s a faith-based belief. They are not misled to believe that this Church has some sort of amazing technology which might cure cancer. They are led to believe that faith can cure. That is what the Church is offering, and it is what every religion offers: FAITH.
When all religion offers is faith then it is completely meaningless to ask whether one church offers more of such nonsense than the other. If any individual chooses to believe this nonsense then that’s their own choice/fault. They haven’t been misled, they’ve just chosen to believe in something stupid.
Ah times change at present I am living on the beach up north.The summer is glorious up here. To bad it failed to arrive in summer. Still makes it more fun to shovel vast quantities of mulch and gravel around
I have been known to inhabit suburbia at times as well.Particularly when Huey has a hissy fit : hence the knowledge of Suburbus Botherus
The advantage on a boat is you get no door knockers
The disadvantage is you are awoken at 630am by the loverly girls of the local school rowing team. The glow on their teenage faces is a joy to behold at such a early hour, However the teacher with the load hailer three meters from my cabin is not.
Hopefully in the future we will have laws baning the advertisement of Christinsanity.
You may have to define Christianity in a more detail manner to have the right to ban anything.
A little like saying we should perhaps ban the teaching of history for similar reasons –
You can teach that the Twin Towers were destroyed in an event that occurred on 11 September 2001 – that is undisputed fact
- that the Twin Towers were destroyed by terrorists – OK
- that the Twin Towers were destroyed by Islamic terrorists – now you have a problem. It seems mostly likely this is still a fact, but there are some questions
- that the Twin Towers were destroyed by US terrorists, with the knowledge of President Bush
unproven – perhaps: as yet – but not history
The similarity of ’9/11′ to Christianity may hinge around the point whether you are a Christian who believes Jesus to be Divine or not.
Yes I was laying on a little thick against religion. I do find the claim of healing the same as those claimed by the alt med weirdos and some gullible and vulnerable people are riped of by Christianity snake oil salesman
on ID . wiki young earth creationism their stated stat is between 40% and 50% depending on survey believe the earth is around six thousand years old
I have posted previously a link where miss USA candidates are asked about teaching intelligent design in biology. The consensus among the candidates is yes. You can see some are only trying not to undermine Cristian beliefs
sorry I can not supply links
Children have been harmed and terrified by religion for century’s Many comments have been posted by both atheists and xians asserting that fact on this blog
At some point in the future programming such nonsense into children will become unacceptable to society
don’t worry KK lee01 et al not in my lifetime or yours
No General Debate on May 1st is a DOS attack on that person we don’t acknowledge. He suffers without attention.
Shit stirring comments on other posts will get a quick ban.
Thermonuclear meltdown soon
mikemmild – I’m sorry
If your reaction to my history example is “nutter alert”, I could have not expressed myself properly
But your reaction does demonstrate what I was trying to indicate
To ban something as diverse as Christianity would be the equivalent of banning history which is also as multilevelled ?
These are actual comments made on students’ report cards by teachers in the New York City public school system. All teachers were reprimanded (but, boy, are these funny!)
1. Since my last report, your child has reached rock bottom and has started to dig.
2. I would not allow this student to breed.
3. Your child has delusions of adequacy.
4. Your son is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot. (my favourite…)
5. Your son sets low personal standards and then consistently fails to achieve them.
6. The student has a ‘full six-pack’ but lacks the plastic thing to hold it all together.
7. This child has been working with glue too much.
8. When your daughter’s IQ reaches 50, she should sell.
9. The gates are down, the lights are flashing, but the train isn’t coming..
10 If this student were any more stupid, he’d have to be watered twice a week.
11 It’s impossible to believe the sperm that created this child beat out 1,000,000 others.
12 The wheel is turning but the hamster is definitely dead.
These are actual comments made by 16 Police Officers. The comments were taken off actual police car videos around the country:
1. “You know, stop lights don’t come any redder than the one you just went through.”
2. “Relax, the handcuffs are tight because they’re new. They’ll stretch after you wear them a while.”
3. “If you take your hands off the car, I’ll make your birth certificate a worthless document.”
4. “If you run, you’ll only go to jail tired.”
5. “Can you run faster than 1200 feet per second? Because that’s the speed of the bullet that’ll be chasing you.” (LOVE IT)
6. “You don’t know how fast you were going? I guess that means I can write anything I want to on the ticket, huh?” (MY FAVORITE)
7. “Yes, sir, you can talk to the shift supervisor, but I don’t think it will help. Oh, did I mention that I’m the shift supervisor?”
8. “Warning! You want a warning? O.K, I’m warning you not to do that again or I’ll give you another ticket.”
9. “The answer to this last question will determine whether you are drunk or not. Was Mickey Mouse a cat or a dog?”
10 “Fair? You want me to be fair? Listen, fair is a place where you go to ride on rides, eat cotton candy and corn dogs and step in monkey poop.”
11 “Yeah, we have a quota. Two more tickets and my wife gets a toaster oven.”
12 “In God we trust; all others we run through NCIC.” (National Crime Information Centre)
13 “Just how big were those ‘two beers’ you say you had?”
14 “No sir, we don’t have quotas anymore. We used to, but now we’re allowed to write as many tickets as we can.”
15 “I’m glad to hear that the Chief (of Police) is a personal friend of yours. So you know someone who can post your bail.”
AND THE WINNER IS….
16 “You didn’t think we give pretty women tickets? You’re right, we don’t.. Sign here.”
Some Christians believe that prayer can heal, and say that they have seen instances with their own eyes. Some Chrisitians do not believe this.
Some people believe the Twin Towers collapse on 11/09/2001 was a vast Government conspiracy, and provide evidence – engineer reports and the like – to “prove” this. Other people do not believe this.
Some people believe that the moon landings were faked, and have provided “proof” to explain this. Other people do not believe this.
Some people believe they have seen UFOs, some believe this is all hogwash.
Some people believe that man-made climate change is real, some believe it all made up by companies with a vested interest.
Some people believe that Hone Harawira is a saint who will save his people, many people are utterly sick of him.
Some people believe that only a right-wing government can bring prosperity to a society, some people believe only a left-wing government can do this.
Many people believe many different things. As long as they don’t hurt others with their beliefs, live and let live I say.
Many people believe many different things. As long as they don’t hurt others with their beliefs, live and let live I say.
Which is basically what one version of Christianity thinks Jesus taught [and even give up your our life for others if need be, which distinguishes him a bit from other 'wise persons']
but other people do not believe this.
So back to where we were.
I fell down some stairs in a Spanish hotel and landed on the marble floor in the foyer.
But Jesus helped me up.
He was on the Reception Desk at the time. Nice touch, I thought
On 23rd March the Uk Met Office issued an outlook covering April/May/June, noting:
The forecast for average UK rainfall slightly favours drier than average conditions for April-May-June as a whole, and also slightly favours April being the driest of the 3 months
The Met Office’s forecasting super-computer is capable of 1,000 billion calculations every second to feed data to 400 scientists and uses 1.2 megawatts of energy to run – enough to power more than 1,000 homes.
My great concern is what Dr. Hans-Peter Durr, former Director of Astrophysics at the Max Planck Institute in Germany told me ten months ago. Japan had not yet admitted the core had melted down, but Hans-Peter knew that Fukushima was close to bringing us beyond the limits of our scientific knowledge and strongly suggested that Japan’s government should create an independent assessment team to bring the best minds of the nuclear scientists and structural engineers to seek the best solution. In such circumstances, Dr. Edwards accurately said, “It is important to seek the advice of experts who are genuinely independent having no conflict of interest and no need to save face. National pride makes it understandably difficult to seek help from outside, but sometimes it is the best thing to do.”
I have to admit that my country’s strong national pride makes it unrealistic to see an independent assessment team form soon enough, and so I now turn to rely on U.S. leadership to act out of the need for common, global security before a strong earthquake comes in the near future. If the reactor unit 4 building collapses, we will face a global environmental and human catastrophe larger than ever before.
It’s a shame for those who haven’t even understood the elementary basics of 911 over a decade after it happened that they are therefore also incapable of understanding what’s really been going on with Fukushima as well since it’s been quite interesting watching it over the last year. It wasn’t just what it appears, these things never are, but there’s no point in explaining what it really was, to people who haven’t even got a frame of reference for these things. Ah well, their loss. Funny about those Chinese cities mentioned in the second link isn’t it. Brand new deserted cities, built years ago, capable of holding 60 million people. Just waiting for lots of Japanese to come? Who woulda thunk eh? Funny how some people with very deep pockets have been buying up massive lots of foreclosed apartment complexes on Florida’s east coast too. I wonder what they know that the rest of us don’t.
April 30th, 2012 at 8:00 am
The Anzac story is a terrible blot on us. We happily joined a despicable and cynical war between European empires for world domination. We invaded another country and butchered 50,000 young men defending their homeland. After we got our butts kicked we happily went off to the mud fields in Europe, led by the same incompetent leaders from Gallipoli.
…
Now we celebrate our poster boys in Afghanistan in the same way I’m sure New Zealanders kidded themselves at the time about the young men who lie in the graveyards of Gallipoli.
Anzac Day is a day, we are told, that makes us who we are. That’s only true if we are babies who like fairytales to make us feel warm inside. Until we can tell the truth about ourselves our Waitangi and Anzac Days are just times of self-delusion.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10802113
– Matt McCarten, Herald political columnist and now revisionary historian
[for a little balance read anything by Dr John Robinson – like THE CORRUPTION OF NEW ZEALAND DEMOCRACY – A Treaty Overview
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:03 am
May I start the day with a very special post for Fletch and Falafulu Fisis and the rest of the members of kiwiblogs fan club Friends Of A Kenyan with this video
Obama at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner 2012
Enjoy. Only 4 more of these to come.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:03 am
There’s littlwe doubt that on this, John Banks is telling then truth.
The cabbage boats have to tie up on a Bank eventually.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:16 am
Dial-a-tinny the latest free market development for the cannabis trade:
~Don’t you just love how prohibition keeps us all safer~
Might pay to double up by delivering pizza too – for the munchies
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:23 am
Pete, everyone knows cabbage comes better served in halves.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:55 am
Libel case against Obama’s gay accuser tossed
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:58 am
There’s glowing reports of a Labour speech with “some good vision”. The piece of it that’s being highlighted, on Dim-Post and at The Standard, is yet another metaphor (how many have been used anti asset sales?):
As usual it’s hard to know if Danyl’s praise was satire or not.
But is stupid metaphors the best sort of vision Labour can come up with? or the speech grand finale:
Good god!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:12 am
Did anyone hear Fenton on ZB this morning? LMAO
Theres not a lot going on in her head.
Whinging about WETA wanting to import 300+ highly skilled workers. She had zero facts. It was such a nothing interview. its worth a listen.
“why couldnt we have trained kiwis to do this work?”
oh, so at all times we should have 300+ highly trained graphics people up our sleeves for when we get a big movie?
fucking moron
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:13 am
eszett, right back at ya –
Also (no video) –
I hope he’s right!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:13 am
isnt matt maccarten dead?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:17 am
Yvette
Vote:Both Matt McCarten and John Robinson are terrible historians – actually, they are not historians at all.
April 30th, 2012 at 9:35 am
Interesting…
From Wikileaks, an email showing how Obama Team Stole Election (via ballot box stuffing) , Bribed Jesse Jackson And Took Russian Money In 2008.
http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/339396_re-insight-the-dems-and-dirty-tricks-internal-use-only-pls.html
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:40 am
Seing stratfor have had this info for 4 years, it seems they are taking a while to decide how to use it. Either that, or it’s a load of nonsense.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:46 am
mikenmild, you think Stratfor released it on their own? C’mon, this is Wikileaks! The stuff is stolen, of course.
According to The Western Center for Journalism
http://www.westernjournalism.com/wikileaks-obama-team-stole-election-bribed-jesse-jackson-and-took-russian-money-in-2008/
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:49 am
Did anyone catch a TV program (I think it might have been “Marae Investigate”) where Willie Jackson said that because a particular Iwi had lost most of their $18 million (from memory) Treaty of Waitangi settlement through bad investments, it was the Government’s job in the future to provide good advisors and basically tell the Iwis how to invest their money correctly?
I saw just a snippet on (I think) the News. Not having seen the full program, I’m interested in the full context. Because on the face of it, this is Willie Jackson saying “give us the money, then hold us by the hand and show us what to do with it, make sure that we silly Maori don’t fritter it away or lose it through our own fault”. He’s (a) insulting his own people by saying they’re too thick to know how to invest wisely, and (b) saying the Government should take on the responsibility for nannying the Iwi through investing it.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 10:07 am
graham – I watched that on MI and it was a bit cringy. They were also complaining about not getting anywhere near enough money.
http://tvnz.co.nz/marae/video
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 10:09 am
Pete: Did anyone point out that if they had got more money, they would still have lost it, so just as well they only got $18 million?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 10:14 am
Nah he’s just looking for another handout for Maori and trying to ignore the law of consequences.
It’s all about entitlements, he thinks Maori are weak and incapable of running their own lives because of the wickedness the evil white colonisers did to them a 150 years ago, therefore they are entitled.
It’s the reason NZ will stay as an underachieving country and people, as long as 50% of our population think they are entitled to Other Peoples Money and vote for politicians who haven’t the balls to say otherwise.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 10:16 am
yeah I saw that graham. Willie Jackson is the pits. I would bet the farm if the government introduced an advisory service for Maori and their treaty payments Willie fucking Jackson would be screaming his head off and claim the government is treating Maori in a paternalistic manner. You just can’t win with these people. Also Willie was in our local paper (Taranaki daily news ) moaning that this particular settlement was way to small. Oh great willie, you bloody clown, would have been much better if they lost $100 million.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 10:43 am
I had dinner with one of those hightly skiller workers last night. The chap starts at WETA today, and arrived from Sydney last week. He’s a kiwi..!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 10:52 am
This is what can happen at the political roots level: National far more open than last year.
National’s Mainland conference was much more accessible to media and is making a concerted effort to engage with membership. I hope this mode of operation works it’s way up north. Other parties could also learn from it.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 10:59 am
http://whoar.co.nz/2012/why-low-minimum-wages-kill-jobs-and-crush-living-standards-for-everyone/
“…Contrary to right-wing propaganda -
- decent pay for workers helps the economy -
- and boosts job creation…”
(cont..)
philip ure@whoar.co.nz
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:06 am
http://whoar.co.nz/2012/austerity-measures-leading-europe-to-%E2%80%98suicide%E2%80%99-nobel-economist-says-%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0/
“…Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz said Europe is in a “dire” situation as a focus on austerity pushes the continent toward “suicide.”
“There has never been any successful austerity program in any large country,” Stiglitz, 69, said in Vienna on Thursday.
“The European approach definitely is the least promising.
I think Europe is headed to a suicide. ”
(cont..)
phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:07 am
krazykiwi: Classic! Is he a kiwi who jumped the ditch and is now coming home?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:08 am
phil – I’ll (just) tollerate your lecturing on mind-altering drugs and armed offences because you have first hand experience of these. But as your parasitic arse has avoided employment for decades, and you’ve been firmly latched onto the taxpayer’s tit you have no right to say anything about job creation or boosting the economy. Take your fried brain home from the library and get a job.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:11 am
graham – Yes. He previously worked for Weta, then followed work opportunities to Sydney.. and now back here with Weta again. There are (apparently) a few of his former Weta colleagues doing the same.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:14 am
kk
Don’t take this too seriously but, congratulations.
See GD 11.16 pm yesterday.
Your prize will be along quite soon.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:30 am
krazykiwi, bereal:
(whisper) sssshhh. Be very quiet, and maybe he won’t notice that somebody mentioned him …
(back to normal voice) So, anybody going to call Radio Live and deal to Willie Jackson? “Hey Willie, why do you think that Maori are too thick to know how to invest wisely? Whaddaya mean, you don’t? But you said …”
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:44 am
If Willie Jackson believes ‘the Crown’ has an obligation beyond any final settlement, it should be to ensure the amount is divided by members of the iwi and a share is paid to each man, woman and child. If they wish then to return it to some collective investment or use that should be the individual’s business.
Jackson has likely got his ideas from here –
Vote:http://mauistreet.blogspot.co.nz/2012/04/should-government-guarantee-settlements.html
April 30th, 2012 at 11:45 am
Yeah graham, nice suggestions, both of them.
trouble is with the 1st one there is no way that scrote will not notice.
Because thats all he has to live for.
Doesn’t matter to a scrote like that what sort of abuse he cops, just as long
as he is not ignored.
He couldn’t stand being ignored, then what would he have to live for ?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:46 am
dime (4,215) Says:
April 30th, 2012 at 9:12 am
Did anyone hear Fenton on ZB this morning? LMAO
Theres not a lot going on in her head.
Whinging about WETA wanting to import 300+ highly skilled workers. She had zero facts. It was such a nothing interview. its worth a listen.
“why couldnt we have trained kiwis to do this work?”
oh, so at all times we should have 300+ highly trained graphics people up our sleeves for when we get a big movie?
fucking moron
Really!
Perhaps we should then question why it is we have been spending your tax money training graphics people in the poly’s and uni’s forever. Just for Aussies sake I presume.
First chance of putting their training to work and we wnat to import a bunch Indians.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:50 am
Showing? Where is it showing that, Fletch? Just where?
And strafor internal email (marked with ** Internal Use Only – Pls Do Not Forward ** ) 5 days after the election with some unsubstantiated rumors? No sources , no context, no references, no nothing.
So what exactly does that show?
And I love the end of your article:
“Startfor will neither confirm nor deny whether the communiqués attributed to its staff are real or fabrications.”
Yes, sounds like someone is covering their arse.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:02 pm
Yvette, some interesting reading from that link.
“… does the government owe Ngati Tama compensation? Personally, I don’t think so …”
Glad to hear that! But then in the next breath “… but I know other Maori think compensation is appropriate.”
What?! Why? They were given the money, they invested badly, and lost it. How is that the Government’s fault?
Reading on, Morgan states that it “is negligent, on the government’s part, to absolve itself of responsibilities once treaty settlements are passed.” As has been pointed out already, just wait for the screams and howls if the Governement was to say essentially the same thing that Willie Jackson has: “Maori are thick, don’t know how to invest, so we’re gonna do it for you”.
Why did the Iwi in question not seek advice from a proficient investment advisor? Or even some of the other Iwi who have managed to do quite well?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
“..you have no right to say anything about job creation or boosting the economy…”
yes..my name is not joseph stiglitz…it is he who is quoted..
..have you always had these basic comprehension issues…? (i.e..mistaking me for stiglitz..)
..is it the tint of the lenses you look through..?..that blinds you..?
..there..k.k..?
phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:13 pm
phuck …
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:26 pm
How did I miss this?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/local-government/news/article.cfm?c_id=250&objectid=10802364
Talking about Len Brown (Hero of the Left when he stood against John Banks, remember!) and his plans to increase rates, “Heart of the City” advocates alternative income sources for the council, including a bed tax and 1 per cent in GST, which would be paid by everyone in Auckland – not just ratepayers.
Anyone remember the Poll Tax riots in Britain 20 years ago …
On a slight aside … apparently we had a poll tax on Chinese immigrants during the 19th and early 20th centuries. Had a great impact, that did – Chinese immigration went down from 20,000 a year to 8 people. It was repealed in 1944, and Helen Clark offered New Zealand’s Chinese community an official apology for the poll tax in 2002.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Kk made the mistake of assuming that phool quoting an item on phool’s own blog could be actually be phool’s own work. You must be new to this, kk…
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
PIA – Yes (hangs head)
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:38 pm
that’s right..kk..
..tho i do also write pieces..whoar is a news-aggregation site..
..which by its’ very nature..is a best-of collection of media-pieces from all over..
(hope that clarifies matters..
tho’..as davidr would say..’that’s nice’..eh..?
phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:38 pm
Fuck yeah, visitor bed tax and urban enterprise sales taxes are just like poll tax.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:44 pm
KK
There is your prize mate @ 12.03
exactly as predicted @ 11.24 pm on yesterdays GD
and today @11.14 am
Nice one son.
You can set your watch by that scrote.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:46 pm
“willie & JT” have the weekends march at 10,000 lol
They are all over banks. The bit that cracked me up “imagine if this was winston or clarke, the out cry”. fuck, front page of the major newspapers and a ton of tv coverage not enough??
and of course, “just cause people voted for national doesnt mean they voted for asset sales”. fuck off. if it was the defining issue for them they wouldnt have voted national
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:51 pm
So far I’ve seen estimates of the march attendance varying from 1,000 to 20,000 …
But as I said yesterday, half of the people who turned up were just the usual “let’s go protest something” crowd.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
i wonder, if Sir Douglas Graham and his mates had kept their heads down and sucked up their
sentences like men, then this other appeal may not have happened.
Not good for Sir Doug et al
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/6829361/FMA-appeals-Lombard-sentence
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
Wind power bad.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/9234715/Wind-farms-can-cause-climate-change-finds-new-study.html
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 1:43 pm
From the blog site http://antipodeanmariner.blogspot.co.nz/
He has given a link to a video of Somalian pirates taking their skiff for a Sunday outing (or maybe attempting to hijack a merchant ship). The cowardly AK47 wielding scum, used to attacking unarmed freighter crews, come unglued in a big way. No biggie but apparently the world apologists for third world cultures have condemned the ship’s security guards for using undue force. We can’t have those nice Somalians being shot at while they’re working can we? It’s probably agaist OSH regulations.
Ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a1KZOllt-Y
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 1:49 pm
Wind power bad.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/9234715/Wind-farms-can-cause-climate-change-finds-new-study.html
kowtow, you have to laugh, really
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 1:58 pm
Wind farms may have a minor effect on microclimates by mixing air of different temperatures, but they operate in wind that mixes air, so it’s hard to see how any significant local changes would occur, let alone global effects.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 2:16 pm
But Pete, they are –
1. Causing lakes of toxic material in China –
MORE – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1350811/In-China-true-cost-Britains-clean-green-wind-power-experiment-Pollution-disastrous-scale.html
2) Wind farms sometimes produce too much electricity.
Last year in the UK, wind farms were paid £25 Million of taxpayer money not to produce electricity. £1.6 Million on one day alone!
And check out –
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/windpower/8999822/Wind-farms-earn-1m-to-shut-down-over-Christmas-and-New-Year-gales.html
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
@Nasska – the Russians know how to deal with pirates. They kill them. The Royal Navy however, is loathe to even arrest them and bring them aboard their vessels in case they claim political assylum in the UK.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
The Royal Navy also once knew how to deal with pirates. Simply blew ‘em out of the water or hanged them from the yard arm (or some such technical marine term) Now though the pirates have human rights and the law abiding none.
Pete ,please keep making excuses for expensive,subsidised ,ideological and wasteful power production,it really does your credibility no end of good!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
Somalian Pirates = Muslims.
Piracy has long been a tool of Islamic agression.
How Muslim Piracy Changed the World: http://europenews.dk/en/node/27372
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
kowtow – In defence of Pete (1:58), I can’t see these making much difference. More to the point, the research in question was published in Nature, a journel which is increasingly discredited as alarmist, and lacking scientific credibility.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
Translation of KK 3:39
The bible does not have climate change or any thing about wind farms
my alt science nutjob websites say no climate change
This publication “nature” has peer reviewed studies from sicientists
I dont like real science If it does not fit my conservative Cristian nutjob views it must be wrong
Vote:KK and fletch are very much the same
Same book guides them to the same result
April 30th, 2012 at 4:12 pm
kowtow, I wasn’t making any sort of comment on wind turbines as a power source.
I have some knowledge of blade mixing of air, powered blades have been used for decades to mix air and break up the inversion layer in frost fighting for fruit and grapes. Some blades are fixed and electric powered, sometimes they use helicopters.
There’s a big difference between them and wind turbines as they use power sources to create air movement, where as wind turbines harness existing wind movement (in which case you don’t have trapped layers of cold air under an inversion layer).
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 4:13 pm
re helen clark:..
..funny story..!
..she went to the u.n (as she says it..) to ‘end poverty’..
..after for nine long years in power here failing to do just that…
..and in fact..in her cuts to entitlements (orchestrated by benson-pope..)
..she actually made things worse…
..and of course she resolutely turned her back on those hurting the most..
..and for nine long years..
..(i guess we could be optimistic – and hope she has learnt from her failures here…)
phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
So Banks has just denied he thanked Dotcom for the donation.
Obviously in response to Mallard’s point this morning about this being the “killer point,” given you can hardly deny you knew if you thanked him for it, can you.
Instead Banks has obfuscated that the phone call was ” to thank him for a $500,000 fireworks display he had donated to Auckland city.”
The bullshit is palpable, isn’t it. This is normally the point where if it was a lefty politician the media would back right off and say to the 90% of people who don’t know politics exists and the real, “in-depth” news is proclaimed 6-7:30 PM weeknights, oh, right then, sorry. However they won’t do that, this time. I guarantee it. Doesn’t Banks even know how the media work in this country? Crikey.
So obviously the recording of that phone call is somewhere on the Echelon database and since the Nats are in power and Key is GCHQ Minister it’s unlikely that copy will be handed over, but it’s quite risky isn’t it to imagine a technology multi-millionaire would never have made a recording of all his phone calls as a matter of practice, I mean, why not. Perhaps Banks is calculating Dotcom is hardly going to lay himself open to further legal issues arising from illegal recording at this particular moment in time but hey, an anonymous source untraceable from say a Ukrainian server and Banks is history. And Dotcom is pissed, you can see that. He’s not going to go away on this.
So on balance is this a good move or a dumb move, by Banks?
It’s a risky move, that’s for sure. I bet he doesn’t sleep very well tonight.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6831670/Banks-denies-Dotcom-phone-call
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 4:45 pm
“I dont like real science If it does not fit my conservative Cristian nutjob views it must be wrong”
Accusations of nutjobbery are amusing coming from someone who claimed in a post above that the Bible says God created the world in six thousand years!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 4:52 pm
Accusations of nutjobbery are amusing coming from someone who claimed in a post above that the Bible says God created the world in six thousand years!
What I find amusing are arrogant but baseless allegations made from positions of ignorance such as 100% of comments about what Christians supposedly think coming from people who aren’t and/or who’ve never been Christians. For those guilty of this who don’t know what I mean then use this analogy, dummy. Read what phil says about conservatives and think to yourself, is he right or is he wrong, about that. That’s what YOU are like, with Christians.
Idiots. All of you, who do this. Why the fuck don’t you grow a brain, you fucking morons. I mean you’re so fucking stupid you probably don’t even understand how I can both swear and be a Christian, do you. No, I didn’t think so. Fucking arrogant wankers.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
Banks is now looking a bit dodgy on this. The prime minister gave him a claytons endorsement – basically saying as yet I have no evidence to fire him but if you do go to the police with it.
Lets for a moment say banks has broken the rules – does key fire him and risk loosing ACT support or does Banks get ousted from parliament leaving National to contest and win a by election
good god what a potential mess
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 5:00 pm
“What I find amusing are arrogant but baseless allegations made from positions of ignorance such as 100% of comments about what Christians supposedly think coming from people who aren’t and/or who’ve never been Christians.”
I agree with you. Most of the conversations I have had with posters like Griff have revealed that most internet anti-Christian ranters like him do not have a clue what real Christianity does and has taught.
They go to a few rabid atheist sites, pull a few contexteless quotes out of the Bible, and think they know what they are talking about. Griff cannot even get the Bible right (six thousand years!).
It is largely pointless debating with them. Debating with a retarded raccoon would be a better use of time.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 5:03 pm
Mark
Not “God” with a small “g”!!!!! The G-d Squad are on form this arvo.
Remember the Inquisition!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 5:06 pm
With form like that I’m surprised you’ve lasted long enough to chalk up 10,504 posts without getting banned
I’m even more surprised that I’ve never noticed a poster called Leaping Jimmy before now. Has that always been your name?
[Oh and as long as you want laws in New Zealand to be based on the teachings of your invisible, imaginary creator spirit, people who just don't believe in your invisible imaginary creator spirit are going to ask "why?"]
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 5:08 pm
Lets for a moment say banks has broken the rules – does key fire him and risk loosing ACT support or does Banks get ousted from parliament leaving National to contest and win a by election
On lefty radio weekly politics they mentioned Shearer’s suggestion: to stand him down until this is sorted. This seems a sensible compromise. Key has to be seen to be doing something otherwise National risks losing the high ground from Liarbore when it did what it did over Field and Peters. The Nats cannot afford to lose that because it is a genuine point of difference and one thing is for sure, that Liarbore will do the same thing again, that wasn’t a Hulun trait, it was a Liarbore trait (mostly because their tame media makes them think they will get away with it – they fail to understand the ‘can’t fool ALL the people ALL the time’ angle which is what tripped them up in 2007).
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 5:09 pm
It is Banks not I that faces the initial inquisition it seems. The root question being has he been telling porkies to the PM :0
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 5:13 pm
It’s reid, RRM.
Oh and as long as you want public policy in New Zealand to be based on the teachings of your invisible, imaginary creator spirit, people who just don’t believe in your invisible imaginary creator spirit are going to ask “why?”
Yes and that’s fine but that’s not what I was referring to above, is it. And who said I wanted that, anyway?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 5:40 pm
does yr new name ‘leaping jimmy’ have any theological-references..?
..an obscure saint..?..patron saint of the high-jump..?..perchance..?
phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 5:53 pm
["Oh and as long as you want laws in New Zealand to be based on the teachings of your invisible, imaginary creator spirit, people who just don't believe in your invisible imaginary creator spirit are going to ask "why?"]
Oh dear. Where to begin? Most of the basic laws in New Zealand already ARE based on Christian principles. That has been the case in the West for over a thousand years. Your a little late to be worrying about it.
And as long as you want laws in New Zealand to be based on imaginary fantasies like secularism, humanism and Marxism, people who don’t believe in your new gods are going to ask “why?”.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:01 pm
Oh jesus, the nutbars have started early
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:06 pm
“And as long as you want laws in New Zealand to be based on imaginary fantasies like secularism, humanism and Marxism, people who don’t believe in your new gods are going to ask “why?””
That makes absolutely no sense at all.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:07 pm
“Christian principles” – lol what are those?
The only teaching of Jesus worth mentioning is the golden rule.
And plenty of much older religions than Christianity teach that.
Human decency and a sense of natural justice is where our laws come from. There’s nothing uniquely Christian about that.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:10 pm
slavery
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:18 pm
One true god
Which bunch of nutjobs do have the one true god
seems it comes in flavors
your average jewish original one true god him of the smiting and creation and all that goat herder beget goat herder stuff
the improved Cristian fundie version the sort pastor pedo preaches
Or the new and improved goat fucking kill the infidels Muslim type
Then you mix in all the different version of each
Vote:you orthodox Jew,Mormon,JW , shite ad infinitum
You now there may be an outside chance that one of these Many groups are right
That proves that all the rest are wrong
So after you have decided among yourself
No cancel that idea thats wot most wars on earth boil down to
lets just stick to you are all nut-jobs far simpler
April 30th, 2012 at 6:26 pm
““Christian principles” – lol what are those?”
If you don’t know, then you not really in a position to discuss the issue. Discussing an issue requires you know the subject.
“The only teaching of Jesus worth mentioning is the golden rule. And plenty of much older religions than Christianity teach that.”
The only one worth mentioning? Wow. Ignorance is bliss eh
Jesus taught a great deal, and much of it has entered into the legal systems and cultural framework of the West.
The West is Christian at its base, and no amount of selective historical memory failure can change that.
“Human decency and a sense of natural justice is where our laws come from.”
Historically untrue. Most laws in the West were based on Christian laws and values, and while some were also based on older pagan systems, such as the Roman civil code, the reality is that Christianity has been the primary political, legal and cultural influence for over a thousand years in the West. Pretending that is/was not the case is simple ignorance, or a lack of educatiom, or both.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:29 pm
Wat,
“slavery”
Chattel slavery only became common practice in the Christian West after the 1500′s and largely for ecomnomic reasons, not religious ones. It was not common prior to that largely because of the Church, while it was common everywhere else. And it was Christians who led the opposition to it.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:34 pm
I believe over the last few days I have come across a group of people whose sole socail interaction seems to be here on Kiwiblog.
There is a world out there- its not perfect as none of us are -but its actually worth venturing out and having a look at
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:37 pm
At least of Kiwiblog we can maintain the illusion of being perfect and can’t be contradicted.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:37 pm
I am a direct descendent of one of these people. And very proud of it.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:40 pm
so why do you now support the economic-slavery of many..?
..phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:49 pm
Lee 01
….Chattel slavery, so named because people are treated as the personal property, chattels, of an owner and are bought and sold as commodities, is the original form of slavery………………………………………
In 1452, Pope Nicholas V issued the papal bull Dum Diversas, granting the kings of Spain and Portugal the right to reduce any “Saracens, pagans and any other unbelievers” to perpetual slavery, legitimizing the slave trade as a result of war.[40] The approval of slavery under these conditions was reaffirmed and extended in his Romanus Pontifex bull of 1455.
Thats just a quick flick through wiki, the church was up to its nuts in it and many of William Wilberforces mates happily trotted off to Sunday service after checking the returns from busines’s worked by slaves,
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:50 pm
I dont. That you brazenly choose to be a slave of lazy, selfish, terminal indulgence is your fault alone.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:52 pm
six thousand years
http://www.missiontoamerica.com/genesis/six-thousand-years.html
“The Bible provides a complete genealogy from Adam to Jesus. You can go through the genealogies and add up the years. You’ll get a total that is just over 4,000 years. Add the 2,000 years since the time of Jesus and you get just over 6,000 years since God created everything.
Is there anything wrong with figuring out the age of the earth this way? No. There is nothing to indicate the genealogies are incomplete. There is nothing to indicate God left anything out. There is nothing in the Bible that indicates in any way that the world is much older than 6,000 years old”
six days
New International Version (©1984)
God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning–the sixth day.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good! And evening passed and morning came, marking the sixth day.
English Standard Version (©2001)
And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
And God saw everything that he had made and that it was very good. There was evening, then morning-the sixth day.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
American King James Version
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Gee must be the other sect U guys belong to then
Vote:nothing like bible interpretation to start a war over
April 30th, 2012 at 6:53 pm
Well he had quite a few people sucking up to him on realising that his determination to eradicate slavery was gathering steam. Probably not ‘mates’ though Paul. Most of his mates were helping him in his quest.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:56 pm
I think PEB’s point may have been along the lines of don’t credit Christianity for Wilberforce’s campaign when many of his fellow Christians were obviously very comfortable with slavery
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:56 pm
ACT MP John Banks now denies he rang Kim Dotcom to thank him for an anonymous donation to his 2010 Auckland Mayoral campaign.
Perhaps the NZ Police could ask the FBI for Kim’s phone records
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:56 pm
The point KK was that christians have been slavers for centuries not as Lee tried to disavow earlier, if you make braod generalizations there will be always someone with bugger all to do for an hour to disprove it
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:58 pm
Chattel slavery, so named because people are treated as the personal property
You mean partriarchal marriage? That has barely ceased now, although it took a big hit over the last half century.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 6:58 pm
you do support economic-slavery…kk..
..you are a rightie..
..that is the whole premise of being a rightie..
phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:05 pm
Slavery that would be evident in pre reformation england with serfs tied to the land and working mostly to benefit of a gross and corpulent church
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:06 pm
No, Paul, the point is that slavers were ‘Christians’ because back then everyone was a ‘Christian’. Doctors, sailors, brothel keepers, MPs, thieves, merchants, bankers etc. However subtly, to attempt to cast modern day Christians as supportive of evil that existed 200 years ago is somewhat disingenuous. Obviously a hot topic for me given my heritage.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:09 pm
Cambell seems to have done some real journalism for once
Banks is in real trouble
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:09 pm
And that’s a fair point. Wilberforce was a good man. Arguably his faith may have contributed to that, but at the end of the day he did what he felt was moral, right and just as a human.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:10 pm
Griff @ 6.18
You ask the righteous question, “Which bunch of nutjobs do have the one true God ?”
Answer. The fricken muslims, because they are unique amongst all religions in their belief that if you don’t
bow down to their God and his prophet….
They will kill you.
Their religion says they have a duty to kill you.
Now you can’t be more right than than that. (can you ?)
Question is, knowing that,
Vote:Why do we want to import more of them into New Zealand ?
April 30th, 2012 at 7:13 pm
Pauleastbay – It’s probably too complicated a subject to get quick answers for.
I think a lot of people have the wrong idea about what “slavery” is in the Bible. This is from what I have read, anyway. Jews were only allowed to take thieves or enemies as ‘slaves’. I think this is the equivalent of our prison system today? We deprive people of their freedom, force them into labour (breaking rocks, it used to be, or making license plates) for a certain number of years. In other words, they are slaves of the State.
In any case, after Pope Nicholas V, the Popes thereafter condemned slavery,
As I said to begin with, it’s probably too complicated a subject to answer without doing a fair amount of research, but this is what I’ve read so far.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:14 pm
Colossians 3:22:
Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:21 pm
Wiki
Young Earth creationism (YEC) is the religious belief[1] that the Universe, Earth, and all life on Earth were created by direct acts of the Abrahamic God during a relatively short period, sometime between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago.[2] Its primary adherents are Christians and Jews[3] who believe that God created the Earth in six 24-hour days, taking a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative as a basis for their beliefs.[4][5]
“When asked for their views on the origin and development of human beings, between 40% and 50% of adults in the United States say they share the beliefs of young Earth creationism, depending on the poll”
Well fuck me seems that the f undies in this “godzown country”
Vote:Have titanically different beliefs about creation as the teaming masses of f undies in the good old USA.
Why don’t we have a religious war over it. such a difference should be worth at least a few high profile excommunications and cutting of all diplomatic relations
Oh thats right Christians no longer have any say at all in nz
Thank GOD for that
April 30th, 2012 at 7:24 pm
.
krazykiwi (7,809) Says:
April 30th, 2012 at 7:06 pm
…
to attempt to cast modern day Christians as supportive of evil that existed 200 years ago is somewhat disingenuous…………………………….
The old I’m more christian than them argument ah. …….. now thats disengenuous.
The thing is you have your belief system good on you , I have mine, but please don’t use your belief system as backing for an argument.
I happen to believe that a certain rock off our coast is higher in the chain than me but I’m not going to attempt to use that as proof to back any argument here or any where
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:27 pm
If you want an in-depth answer on slavery and Christianity, check out these links (a lot of reading) –
http://christianthinktank.com/qnoslave.html
http://christianthinktank.com/qnoslavent.html
The following may be easier to read, as it is in the form of refuting someone else’s post, point-by-point –
http://socrates58.blogspot.co.nz/2007/03/dialogue-reflections-on-crusades.html
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:30 pm
Well, obviously the Catholic Church lacked influence over the Spanish as they conquered South America and enslaved the people there. At least the Popes issued a few edicts though…
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:32 pm
Although most authors argue that there has been a shift in Church teaching over the last two millennia from acceptance and toleration of slavery to opposition, some Catholic writers reject this claim, insisting that there has been no such change in the Magisterium. One reason for this insistence is that authors who argue that the Magisterium has changed have pointed to this purported shift in teaching as setting a precedent that Church teaching has changed to be compatible with changes in social mores and morality.[117] As a result, historical interpretation of the Church’s teaching on slavery over the last two millennia has become controversial between those who would change the Church’s teaching in other areas and those who resist such changes— in effect, a debate between those who hold to the Church’s doctrine of indefectibility and those that reject the Church’s claims.
Cardinal Avery Dulles makes the following observations about the Catholic Church and the institution of slavery
For many centuries the Church was part of a slave-holding society.
The popes themselves held slaves, including at times hundreds of Muslim captives to man their galleys.
Throughout Christian antiquity and the Middle Ages, theologians generally followed St. Augustine in holding that although slavery was not written into the natural moral law it was not absolutely forbidden by that law.
St. Thomas Aquinas, Luther, and Calvin were all Augustinian on this point. Although the subjection of one person to another (servitus) was not part of the primary intention of the natural law, St. Thomas taught, it was appropriate and socially useful in a world impaired by original sin.
No Father or Doctor of the Church was an unqualified abolitionist.
No pope or council ever made a sweeping condemnation of slavery as such.
But they constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.[18]
Theologian Laennec Hurbon asserted that no Pope before 1890 condemned all forms of slavery, asserting that, “. .. one can search in vain through the interventions of the Holy See-those of Pius V, Urban VIII and Benedict XIV-for any condemnation of the actual principle of slavery.”[118]
In a modern work that denies any fundamental change in the church’s teaching over the centuries, Father Joel Panzer writes:
The development of [the Church's teaching regarding slavery] over the span of nearly five centuries was occasioned by the unique and illicit form of servitude that accompanied the Age of Discovery. The just titles to servitude were not rejected by the Church, but rather were tolerated for many reasons. This in no way invalidates the clear and consistent teaching against the unjust slavery that came to prevail in Africa and the Western Hemisphere, first in Central and South America and then in the United States, for approximately four centuries.[118]
The “servitude” that Panzer describes allows, subject to certain conditions, the buying, selling and exchange of other human beings as described in the Holy Office decree of 1866 and he believes this has been the constant teaching of Popes down through the ages.[119] Maxwell (1975) argues against a very rigid understanding of Papal texts, and their immutability, noting that torture was also once sanctioned by Papal decree.[120] Pope John Paul II in 1995 “in the name of the whole Church” forbade the selling of women and children.[121]
In his 1975 work on slavery, John F. Maxwell wrote that the Church did not correct its teaching on the moral legitimacy of slavery until 1965, with the publication, from the Second Vatican Council, of Gaudium et Spes (The Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World).[118] Judge John T. Noonan, Jr. has argued that slavery is one of the areas in which the Church has changed its moral teaching to suit the times, and that this change did not take place until 1890 when, he asserted, the Church finally condemned the institution of slavery, lagging behind laws which had already been enacted to outlaw the practice.[122] In a book edited by Charles Curran, Diana Hayes also concludes that there was a change in the church’s teaching, which she places in the 1880s.[123]
Dulles characterizes Noonan’s thesis as being that “social change makes it possible for Christians to overcome the blindness that had previously afflicted their moral vision”. According to Dulles, Noonan finds that the Church has changed its doctrine, in many cases, effecting “an about-face, repudiating the erroneous past teaching of the magisterium itself.”[18] However, Dulles asserts that Noonan “fails to establish that the Church has reversed her teaching in any of the four areas he examines”.
Vic Biorseth argues that “In all of recorded history, there is no such thing as a matter of faith and morals on which the Holy Roman Catholic Church has ever changed its teaching.”[124] Rodney Stark presents evidence to refute the allegations that the Catholic Church did not oppose slavery until relatively recently.[9] Stark makes no mention in his essay of the pro-slavery texts issued by Popes in the past nor does Father Panzer who he uses as a source. Maxwell (1975) asserts that it has been difficult for Catholic historians to write impartially on this subject. By way of example he notes texts of Pope Leo XIII who singled out for praise twelve previous Popes who made every effort to end slavery. Maxwell then points out that five of the mentioned Popes actually authorized slavery but suggests the error could be due to the Popes “ghost writers”. Hugh Thomas, author of “The Slave Trade” is critical of the New Catholic Encyclopedia through its “misleading” account of Papal condemnation of slavery.[125] Maxwell (1975) describes the situation as the historical “whitewashing” of the Churches involvement in slavery.[126]
Father John Francis Maxwell in 1975 published “The Catholic Church and Slavery”, a book that was the product of seven years research. It recorded the instances were slavery was sanctioned by Councils and Popes and also censures and prohibitions that have been recorded throughout the history of the Church. He explains what appears to the layman, not familiar with the intricacies of Church teaching and law, that what seems contradictory teaching, often involving the same Pope, is actually only a reflection of the common and longstanding concept of permissible “just slavery”, and “unjust slavery” which was subject to condemnation. He shows by numerous examples from Council and Papal documents that “just slavery” was always an acceptable part of Catholic teaching right up until the end of the 19th century when the first steps were taken to place all forms of slavery under the ban. Since “just” slavery had been allowed by previous Councils and Popes he saw the declaration of slavery as an unconditional “infamy” in the Second Vatican Council pastoral constitution “Gaudium et spes” as a correction to what had been previously been allowed, but not promulgated as infallible teaching. Pope John Paul II in his encyclical “EVANGELIUM VITAE” (1995),when repeating the list of infamies that included slavery, prefaced the passage in “Gaudium es spes” with “ ..Thirty years later, taking up the words of the Council and with the same forcefulness I repeat that condemnation in the name of the whole Church, certain that I am interpreting the genuine sentiment of every upright conscience..”
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:32 pm
Err, Fletch, Dum Diversas.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:33 pm
Fletch
Thats wrong
there were papal bulls 1452, Pope Nicholas V and his Romanus Pontifex bull of 1455.
socrates blogspots blog seems to have convieniently missed this out
By the way saracens were a racial group who happened to be muslims
Bloody impressive JB and you did’nt even need spell check
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:34 pm
And who could forget Encomienda.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:36 pm
Never forgotten either of those cha!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:37 pm
Starting to read some of the links above, and I think this is interesting….
In other words, when one talks about “slavery”, we tend to associate it with the form we see in the Southern United States, etc, which was quite unique. ‘Slavery’ has meant many different things historically.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:37 pm
Never forgot having to promise the little runt of a priest to bring my kids up as catholics either!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:41 pm
Johnboy, and that was before you went to Scots College. Truly the writing was on the wall early!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:42 pm
The old lady was all keen on us being altar boys but the old man said no fucking way.
I’d say he had a clue johnboy.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:42 pm
I’m not a bloody child molester KK!
I never started rooting till I left school.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
There once was a Father named Bings
Vote:Who preached of God and such things
But his secret desire was a lad in the choir
With an arse like jelly on springs.
April 30th, 2012 at 7:48 pm
Fletch
So the churches slavery wasn’t as bad as the plantation owners, Ok why didn’t I see that.
and from above
….….Chattel slavery, so named because people are treated as the personal property, chattels, of an owner and are bought and sold as commodities, is the original form of slavery………………………………………
I wasn’t even asked to be an alter boy, wrong type of family evidently, scarred me evidently as well
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:48 pm
Now there is a certain self centered scrote on this site who has been unable to provoke
any reaction to his puke since the prize was awarded earlier.
Every post he makes is now a provocative question aimed at an individual because…
This scrote is getting desperate for some recognition. Any recognition.
To the extent that if someone called him a bludging parasite he would love that.
Imagine the kicking his dog will get tonight if he is ignored all day.
Surely someone will take pity on his dog and reply to sumsing he has posted.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:51 pm
How many children were actually abused by priests? Any at all is bad, but it’s not as many as you might think, as Brendan O’Neill points out –
He goes on in the article to talk about a similar situation with the numbers in connection to Ireland.
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/9548/
The media love to inflate numbers like this, and make things seem worse than they actually are, especially when it comes to the Church.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:51 pm
It’s spelled “altar” PEB!
Just saying!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:54 pm
Carbon tax accounting for beginners:
Remember, this is the same aircraft, traveling the same route. Pfffft. It’s nothing more than regressive taxation based on post-modern science.
China is objecting to the EU-ETS being extended to aviation. It suspended Airbus orders worth $14 billion in March. I wonder how many jobs that cost the French company? Further, Air Asia X was the first airline to stop flight to Europe because of the EU-ETS.,
Science? No. Just UN-inspired taxation.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:54 pm
Ah. Not to be pedantic or anything PEB but it’s “didn’t” by the way not “did’nt”!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 7:57 pm
I’m pretty sure Fletch’s defence of those catholic priests against accusations of buggery is as good as his defence of the church agasint accusations it endorsed slavery.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
Mum was very devout PeB. Grandma made dresses and the like for the priests and mum did flowers and stuff but one day she stopped going to church.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:01 pm
Fletch
Its still alot , I went through the entire catholic system and never got touched and never earnt a quid out of it but my mother is lucky enough to have a a cousin, a pedophile Brother who copped 8 years a few years ago. he assaulted many many many many many many boys over decades. the church knew of this offending and they did what? they moved him to Rome and made him a kitchen hand!!!!!!!!!!!!! true story. Mum loves me telling it.
Now thats just one example, like I said I went through the catholic system for my entire primary and secondary education this was in the 60′s and 70′s. I don’t know how old you are but even then the church was not someone my parents would ever challenge, it got away with shit loads solely because they were the church and they had been brought up to believe what was said went.
So don’t get all defensive when we have a crack, its happened and will continual to happen because the church has been a haven for homosexual young men and until they get organised and allow their priests to ahve a life and marry, numbers and candidates will stay the same.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:03 pm
Those priests sound very interesting cha!
Did they prefer lace or floral prints?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:03 pm
JB
It’s spelled “altar” PEB!
See the wrong type definitely
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:03 pm
mikenmild, I’m not defending Catholic priests who are abusers. I think that is terrible and should be punished; however, when the above article looks at the real numbers, and that only 6% of priests charged have been convicted (252 priests from the years 1950 to 2002), I take umbrage with the media purposely giving the Church a bad, name when “… the physical sexual abuse of students in [public] schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by [Catholic] priests.”, according to the Shakeshaft report commissioned by the Department of Education in the U.S in 2004.
Suddenly the rate of abuse in the Church (which, of course, should be nil) is looking pretty good compared to the rest of society… You’re more likely to have been abused by a teacher, a family member, or a scout master, than by a priest.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:05 pm
The first instance of slavery in the Bible consists of Noah’s punishment of his son Canaan for some serious sexual sin (the details of which are unknown): “Cursed be Canaan; a slave of slaves shall he be to his brothers.”(Gen 9: 27).
Unknown? What Bible are you guys reading?
Vote:Genisis 9:22 When Ham, the father of Canaan, saw that his father was naked, he went and told his two brothers.
That was the sin, he alerted his brothers to their father’s drunk and naked condition, hence their efforts to cover him and avert their eyes.
April 30th, 2012 at 8:05 pm
You mean “its happened and will continue to happen because the Catholic church”.
My predescesors were clergy, and I can tell you I’m damn happy they were active in the sack with the Mrs
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:07 pm
The priest that married me and my wife had the hots for her younger sister, chucked it in and went back to the family farm, when he got called for it by the mother in law PEB.
Time the Pope let them do some legal rooting methinks.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:09 pm
Kk
seems to fail to understand that the premium you pay on an aircraft flight for first class reflects the amount of cost that U accrue the airline
Part of this cost is the simple fact that U can carry less first class customers than in cattle class
Hence the amount of fuel burned per person increases for first class passengers
making the carbon emission per KM greater
Did you like ure prize kk
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:10 pm
congrats Johnboy on achieving your 7500 posts
You continue to reveal more and more depth . (like at 7.32) good serious stuff.
Hot on the heels of KK only 7811
Fletch seems to have a brain as well.
Still KK has the prize for being first to respond to a scrote today.
No one can ever take that away from him.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:11 pm
JB
Which is sad he might have been a good priest and husband. A friend from school was a priest for 10 years but chucked it because he just got so fucking lonely, happily married now with a family – one life be happy
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:13 pm
Far better a happy farmer than a sad priest PEB!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:13 pm
Dude takes his daughter to the doctor for a checkup.
Doctor says, “Dude, is she sexually active yet ?”
Dude says, ” No. She just lies there, same as her mother does. “
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
Any dude can cut and paste Beryl.
That’s why PEB was sarky!
Only my sheep know my full depth.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:16 pm
griff, you seem to fail the understand that the supposed Co2 emissions of a flight should be roughly divided equally over the fare-paying passengers.
That some travellers want champange, like being sucked up to by feather pillow carrying attendants, and the fancy chance at joining the mile-high club, while others are prepared to sit in hell for 14 hours to keep costs down is irrelevant.
How are those crayons lasting? Can I send you some more?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:23 pm
“…you seem to fail the understand that the supposed Co2 emissions of a flight should be roughly divided equally over the fare-paying passengers. ”
No discounts for breathing s l o w l y ?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:24 pm
“..the Shakeshaft report..”
are you having a laff…?
phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:24 pm
JB
That’s why PEB was sarky! ……………….
I wasn’t being sarky JB it was a good comment.
Sarky would have been……….fuck that was just fucking awesome who would have thought….. no that would have been smart arsed and I wasn’t being that either
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:24 pm
So don’t get all defensive when we have a crack
There’s a distinction between religion and how people practice religion. An extremely clear one. Many people don’t even know that it even exists, let alone correctly apply that distinction in their analyses when it is appropriate. For example many people get tripped up on this when thinking about Muslims. For some reason, based on their comments, it’s impossible for some people to separate in their minds the thoughts of human beings who happen to be Muslim from what some individuals do, in the name of Islam. They never appear even to realise there is a distinction. Happens all the time and is appallingly ignorant.
Very sad, both for society in terms of getting to the truth of the matter divorced from the propaganda of it and also for those who can’t wrap their tiny little minds around such a basic concept as that.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
Johnboy
“Time the Pope let them do some legal rooting methinks.”
Think of the amount of business the hookers would lose out on.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:29 pm
Who will get the prize for being first to respond to a scrote tomorrow if no one will bite tonite.
(Please consider his poor dog)
There are legions of drongs, but only one can claim the prize.
KK won today. ( and was shat on for his reward)
Can he make it two in a row ?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:30 pm
Ah Jimmy. Now I understand.
So always being a fucking nice sort of a chap, as I have always been, makes me very holy as opposed to all those bloody religious bigots that contaminate society with their dogma!
I always believed that was the truth, (and the way and the light).
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
Surely as a good businessman he could mobilise the huge assets he has lounging around in nunneries worldwide BB?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
I think there is a good chance that Johnboy is a prophet for the modern age. Johnboy the Baptist perhaps?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:35 pm
Milky is taking ages to edit his post!
Bastard! Tried to beat you !
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:36 pm
Leaping Jimmy – Idiots. All of you, who do this. Why the fuck don’t you grow a brain, you fucking morons. I mean you’re so fucking stupid you probably don’t even understand how I can both swear and be a Christian, do you. No, I didn’t think so. Fucking arrogant wankers.
OK – I’ll risk being named a fucking moron …
Vote:How can you both express yourself as quoted above and be a Christian?
Perhaps in the context of Matthew 25:45
April 30th, 2012 at 8:37 pm
Oh. i see the scrote is back. @8.24
Now pathologicaly desperate for some recognition.
This scrote will get more desperate if he is ignored.
Please acknowlege him someone.
Please think of his poor dog.
i gotta go now.
Vote:My cook wants to play slotomania on face book.
G’nite all.
April 30th, 2012 at 8:38 pm
Why aim for third place Milkey?
Perhaps my favourite sheep is the lamb of God?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
Shit the brains of a fish
YOU CAN CARRY LESS !ST CASS CUSTOMER PER CUBIC METER OF PLANE
IT COSTS MORE FUEL PER IST CLASS CUSTOMER
You did do simple math at one stage did you not
mayhap its time for a little refresher course year five should do you to start
just to remind you your original statement started with
By ICAO methodology, a passenger flying a round trip between Brussels and New Delhi emits 884.59 kg of CO2 in economy; 1,769.18 kg of CO2 in premium.
Remember, this is the same aircraft, traveling the same route. Pfffft. It’s nothing more than regressive taxation based on post-modern science”.
Seems its not regressive taxation seems its kg of co2 per customer and a !st class customer burns more co2
do you understand now
Nutjobs at least some understand they are, some have no idea.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:49 pm
Ah, so looking beyond the the shouting… now I get it. I really do. Based on the griff-method, if the plane is half empty I should pay more carbon tax? If I’m the only person in a 1st class of 12 seats, I should pay 12x the absurd 1st class rate? Riiiiight. Genius.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:55 pm
@KK
Don’t bother kk, Griff is always right….
Vote:1. He shouts.
2. He insults.
3. He uses every logical fallacy in the book.
4. He can’t keep his story straight from one day to the next.
But he is always right.
April 30th, 2012 at 9:00 pm
O_A – I know. I know. I’m teasing. Mocking really, and I shouldn’t. Good call. Thanks.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:00 pm
Johnboy
Best ask Dime about that, if anybody has shagged a hooker nun it will be him.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:03 pm
http://screencast.com/t/VfO6UzL8s
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:04 pm
“By ICAO methodology, a passenger flying a round trip between Brussels and New Delhi emits 884.59 kg of CO2 in economy; 1,769.18 kg of CO2 in premium.”
Of course on the return trip, after spending a week in New Delhi eating the local curry, the very same passenger emits an additional 500kg of methane so the fare should be doubled on the DEL/BRU leg.
Oh my goodness gracious yes!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:09 pm
How can you both express yourself as quoted above and be a Christian?
Puzzled, thanks for asking. Why would I insult you for that?
In the context of Mat 25:45, which (for others’ benefit), needs to be read in the context of the whole chapter and is about the judgement of nations, I use it for shock value because these days, one cannot communicate the same way one used to, even going back to the way we used to communicate in the 80′s. It’s a shame and I think it’s moving in the wrong direction and has been this way for 100+ years, but this is, as you know, not God’s world but Satan’s world, and Satan is not called the slanderer and the deceiver for nothing.
I’m not suggesting by any means I would do this on a public street but on a blog it has two effects: it prompts readership from amongst the dross and more importantly and mainly why I do it, makes it memorable.
If I were brainier I’m sure I could find a more civilised way to make the points I make without using it the way I do, I briefly considered deleting the 2nd para from my post, since the first was fine. However I decided to leave it in, to see what happened, given the fact that any thinking, by anyone, on this subject, is worthwhile.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:11 pm
Why bother
altie nutjobs can not get that the co2 tax is on the amount of co2 it takes to fly you
for a guide to the extra space in first class
http://www.businesstravellogue.com/flying-first-class
“More Space
First and foremost, the First Class cabin in any airplane is going to afford you loads more personal space. The First Class section generally will fit two seats where economy squeezes three or more, so you can be guaranteed of having more room to spread out sideways in First Class. Additionally, the rows are spaced much further apart, so you will get lots more leg room as well.”
That would be at least twice the space Hence twice the fuel for each first class passenger hence the different charges per passenger depending on first business or cattle class
That is not regressive taxation Its straight out co2 per km
Now I need to laugh
Vote:fuckwits
April 30th, 2012 at 9:12 pm
JB
Have you copped a profile of Josie Pagani? Tidy??????? Something from The Wizard of OZ
and wrong blog, never mind
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:15 pm
Fussy bastard are you PEB?
Obvious you have never spent enough time in the bush mate!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:16 pm
native affairs really is a high-quality current affairs show..
..tonight they have a rolling discussion with members from each party..
..with each given a fair chance to speak..
phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:18 pm
“…makes it memorable…”
what was that again..?
phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:19 pm
Fussy, correct
a beak like that and a member of the labour party, can tolerate the beak as I’ve got a pretty good gut going but the labour party , thats the deal breaker.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:20 pm
Lets have a bet.
Who will be the first to acknowledge the last two but two posts?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:25 pm
Ah three weeks snowed in in the Upper Liverpool Hut would soon change your opinion PEB of what constituted fine Womanhood!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:29 pm
Womanhood and the labour party in the same sentence is an oxymoron, three weeks puuh. I’ve gone 52 years with out having sex with anyone from the labour party
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:30 pm
You may feel that they have screwed you from time to time though…
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:33 pm
“..I’ve gone 52 years with out having sex with anyone from the labour party..”
that’s not what they tell me..
..i’ve been told you are quite bi in that way…?
phillip ure@whoar.nz
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:33 pm
Your chance to lose your virginity may be coming soon if Grant comes to power PEB!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:34 pm
Odds going up on that bet!
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:36 pm
Gidday milky. What shall we talk about other than the elephant in the room?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:51 pm
I’m certain I got screwed over by Labour in the late eighties – their Age, not mine
Vote:Les bloody Misérables!
April 30th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
A car drives a 1000 km
There is the driver and two passengers.
The car emits 8 kg of CO2.
Griff logic….
The driver has to pay for 2 kg of CO2
The passenger next to him has to pay for 2 kg of CO2.
The other passenger has to pay for 4 kg of CO2 because he occupies twice the space.
Question on the side:
Vote:If there are four people in the car, will the emissions be lower or higher compared with three?
April 30th, 2012 at 10:17 pm
And they are still trying to screw us over…
Campbell Live this evening –
Mallard – “Our politicians are straight”
as you guys sometimes write: BBwwaahhaahahah …ha ha ha …ha!
Vote:on so many levels
April 30th, 2012 at 10:19 pm
“If there are four people in the car, will the emissions be lower or higher compared with three?”
And more important, who cares?
Vote:Who gives a @h1t about CO2 anyway?
April 30th, 2012 at 11:04 pm
Other altie
Would be the sort of tosser who drives a 735 BMW and bitchers that the guy going past in the bambina pays less fuel tax than him
They both breath the same amount of air and drive on the same road just because his heap of german shit is big why should he pay more fuel tax
Altie logic no wonder so many of them are also f undie mentalist
Vote:;
April 30th, 2012 at 11:25 pm
Czech metal thieves dismantle 10-ton bridge
We should find these guys, give them flights to NZ and work visas. It would piss the greenies off majorly, and we’d get some cycleways. I’d be happy
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 3:17 am
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3765325821683&set=a.3765308301245.164239.1532765111&type=1&theater
Seen this?
The National ‘B’ Team (Brash – now Banks) ACT hostile takeover has now arguably completely ‘trainwrecked’ the ACT brand.
ACT now stands for
A ssociated with
C rooks and
T hieves ?
There is a very big, murky, smelly, swirling, dirty whirlpool that is going to engulf ‘dodgy John Banks’ and sweep him out of Parliament and possibly into prison, if the electoral fraud allegations are eventually proven, following the official Police investigation which Detective Inspector Mark Benefield confirmed started yesterday Monday 30 April 2012.
The longer ‘shonky John Key’ continues to stand by ‘dodgy John Banks’ – the worse it will be both of them.
I’m looking forward to the Police finally taking some meaningful action against, whom in my opinion, is the yet-to-be charged /convicted ‘white collar’ criminal currently holding the balance of power in NZ – ‘perceived’ to be the least corrupt country in the world – the current Minister of Regulatory Reform and current Leader of the ACT Party, ACT MP for Epsom – John Banks.
How long is the ‘perceived’ political protection of John Banks by Prime Minister John Key going to continue?
Is THAT why John Banks (and Don Brash) were never charged as former fellow Directors of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd, for signing Huljich Kiwisaver Registered Prospectuses dated 22 August 2008 and 18 September 2009 – because of
political protection of John Banks by Prime Minister John Key?
Because THAT’S how it looks to me.
Why is Prime Minister John Key continuing to defend the indefensible?
I predict a big, fat dose of ‘karma payback’ – that John Banks will end up getting the same treatment as Kim Dotcom……
ie: One minute – you’re the rooster.
Nek minnit – you’re the feather duster………..
I look forward to the future Epsom by-election, where I predict a large national and international spotlight will focus on how little genuine transparency exists in New Zealand, and how desperately we need an ACTION PLAN against ‘white collar’ crime, corruption and ‘corporate welfare’.
Penny Bright
Vote:‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
http://www.pennybright4epsom.org.nz
May 1st, 2012 at 6:54 am
Yeh you will get your six votes and waste everyones time. piss off.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 6:59 am
Nanny police with little to do. How long did it take to get them to arrive at your burgulary?
Stunt trike daredevils hunted
JESSICA TASMAN-JONES
Last updated 05:00 01/05/2012
Police are hunting a group of Auckland daredevils who have clocked up millions of views on YouTube.
The two minute video, uploaded in late February, shows a group of at least five people racing down North Shore roads on oversized modified tricycles which at times are pulled behind a van on long ropes.
Glimpses of the Auckland city skyline and the Chelsea Sugar Factory in the background suggest the stunt riding was performed around Birkenhead.
In the clip the riders perform daring moves including 360 spins and riding up on two wheels while wearing little safety equipment. Most don’t wear helmets and one is dressed only in shorts and a T-shirt.
The video has over 4.8 million views and has been linked to on the Fox News website.
For fuck sake. NZ needs tourists and no amoun t of money that tourisn NZ can spend will ever get this kind of viewing. Tourism NZ and the Minister for Tourism ,(oh who is that? PM Key) should harness this and load it up with adverts and then tell mr pold to go do some real work arresting real criminals.
Gees I get sick of these plods sometimes. TimeCollins reminded them what they get paid to do.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6833337/Stunt-trike-daredevils-hunted
No doubt some Green inspired policewoman thatis hung up on helmets. This was normal everyday fun once upon a time before the nannies and softcocks got into power. Live life to the full.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 11:44 am
The theory of human induced climate change used as a justification for barbaric treatment of the poor. Disgraceful.
Vote:UK aid helps to fund forced sterilisation of India’s poor
May 1st, 2012 at 11:47 am
No May 1st GD?
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 11:55 am
I think it was up, but then disappeared???
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 12:14 pm
Oh no!
What’s philu going to do? Where is everyone going to talk about him, and where is beryl going to complain about everyone talking about him?
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 12:26 pm
Seeing as the GD thread has simply become filled with philu talking about whatever it is he talks about, people complaining about philu, and bereal complaining about people complaining about philu, maybe DPF is giving it a rest today.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 12:27 pm
Ah well the weather is looking good for a few days so perhaps Paula has sent them all out to pick Kiwifruit.
God for the minds, bodies and souls.
8)
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 12:28 pm
But that only leaves the impending leadership challenges by Grant Robertson and David Cunliffe to talk about…
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 12:31 pm
ssshhh …
DNPTP (Do Not Pheed the Phil) …
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 12:32 pm
Excellent: UK Teachers face payment by results
My, my. Cross party support for the idea.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 3:54 pm
Here’s a good laugh. Jesus doesn’t cure cancer, according to the Advertising Standards Authority:
Vote:http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6835139/Ruling-Jesus-doesn-t-heal-cancer
May 1st, 2012 at 4:19 pm
mm, you (and fairfax) should know better. The ASA doesn’t rule on truth. They simply determine whether claims or assertions breach acceptable standards. In this case I agree with them.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 4:35 pm
Yeah, I know, but in this case some latitude could be allowed for such a great headline.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 4:44 pm
krazykiwi,
I’m an ardent atheist, but I see this ruling as a breach of the church’s right to freedom of religion and speech. Only a complete idiot could see this billboard as anything other than a religious message promoting a religious organization. The complaint that the billboard suggests “the church can offer something other churches cannot” is unbelievably stupid. All religion is horsepucky and all of them offer some variation of the same nonsense. To require their claims to be reasonable completely negates their ability to freely promote their sincere religious beliefs.
Indeed a new message has been put in its place reading:
“Jesus Heals every Sickness & Every Disease – Matthew 4:23″.
That message has the same substance and meaning as the first so I fail to see how one can be acceptable and the other not. The reality is that people are having a shit fit because they are offended. So fucking what.
It really bugs me that I am on the side of religious kooks and more rational people are advancing the same sort of limits on freedom that the religious kooks usually promote… just because they are “offended”.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Not to worry Weihana. When we’re all forced to wear arm bands you’ll be able to avoid sharing supermarket checkout queues with us
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 5:26 pm
The problem is some churches actual believe that they can heal the sick with the laying on of hands or some other piece of superstitions nonsense
There have been cases in NZ were treatment has been denied children because of nut job beliefs of the more fundie of the Cristian sects and that is not only the JWs and their aversion to blood products. let alone the adults sucked into the mumbojumbo and defrauded of money and sanity
Hopefully in the future we will have laws baning the advertisement of Christinsanity. It is a massive destroyer of reason in our society and ! for one would not like to live in a country when the level of scientific knowledge approaches that in the united states of America where almost half the population believe that the world is only six thousand years old! Its only a short step from there to a taliban type scenario
Freedom of speech must be balanced with a freedom from the propagation of out rite lies by commercial entities thats why we have advertising laws
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 5:33 pm
Don’t tell Falafulu Fisi, but a guy at Waikato University is graduating this week with a PhD for studying the ‘everyday bogan’s identity and community amongst heavy metal fans’.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 6:07 pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/secondaryeducation/9237293/Teachers-face-payment-by-results.html
Looky here ,its not just the nasty National Govt that think crap teachers should be paid less,imagine
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 6:11 pm
I wonder if such changes could help the UK’s education system catch up with New Zealand’s results.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 6:18 pm
Griff
I admit that religion should be declared potentially harmful to the physical & mental health of children but I’d hate to live in a world without a few Bible bashers to afford us a little amusement. Religion, as long as it is practised amongst consenting adults is a fairly benign form of self abuse.
The ones to watch for are those on a conversion kick which is why I always answer my door holding a severed goats head, to let Jehovahs Witnesses know that I already have a healthy religious life.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 6:19 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2137652/Patrick-Moore-says-hates-Germans-70-years-Nazi-bomb-killed-fianc-e.html
I do like a grudge holder, good on him
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 6:21 pm
A someone who recruited out of both NZ and UK educational systems it was pretty obvious that numeracy and literacy in NZ was substantially worse – this is also true of the adult population I have worked with – not sure how the various stats are put together but my bollocks detector has gone off.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 6:28 pm
PEB
Vote:That Patrick Moore interview is pure gold!
He admitted there ‘can be good, free, honourable, decent Germans’ only to add: ‘I haven’t met them myself, but I’m sure they exist.’ He continued: ‘I’m no European. Why? Go to Europe and look around. The Germans tried to conquer us. The French betrayed us. The Belgians did very little and the Italians made us our ice cream’.
May 1st, 2012 at 6:36 pm
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/the-dangers-of-not-indicating-20120501-1xvp6.html
The dangers of not indicating – yes a single study so not to be trusted but interesting
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 7:00 pm
I find having a Canis lupus familiaris s pugilitist an effective anti JW and Mormon charm They seem to have the Habit of running away screaming when confronted by it. Strangely enough this charm also works against sundry goblins witches and vampires that congregate in suburbia on hallows eve.
Vote:Leading me to a theory that the two groups may be some wot linked. I propose a name for this new phenomenon as nutjob suburbus boutherus
May 1st, 2012 at 7:05 pm
One morning a blind bunny was hopping down the bunny trail and tripped over a large snake and fell, kerplop right on his twitchy little nose.
‘Oh please excuse me,’ said the bunny. ‘I didn’t mean to trip over you, but I’m blind and can’t see.’
‘That’s perfectly all right,’ replied the snake. ‘To be sure, it was my fault. I didn’t mean to trip you, but I’m blind too, and I didn’t see you coming. By the way, what kind of animal are you?’
‘Well, I really don’t know,’ said the bunny.. ‘I’m blind, and I’ve never seen myself. Maybe you could examine me and find out.’
So the snake felt the bunny all over, and he said, ‘Well, you’re soft, and cuddly, and you have long silky ears, and a little fluffy tail and a dear twitchy little nose. You must be a bunny rabbit!’
The bunny said, ‘I can’t thank you enough. But by the way, what kind of animal are you?’
The snake replied that he didn’t know either, and the bunny agreed to examine him, and when the bunny was finished, the snake asked, ‘Well, what kind of an animal am I?’
The bunny had felt the snake all over, and he replied, ‘You’re cold, you’re slippery, and you have no balls…You must be a POLITICIAN’
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 7:06 pm
potty/dotty old man moore..
..(i am now casting nervous glances at my half-german son..wondering if he ‘is in on it’…)
..and could moore have his trousers any higher..?
..whoar..!..that’s funny..!
..and what’s the bet he also ‘hates blacks’..
phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 7:08 pm
Griff
If you get bothered by JWs & Mormons running away from you when you live on a boat on a swing mooring I suggest that you contact Ghostbusters or look under ‘Exorcisms R us’ in the Yellow Pages.
Walking on water seems a problem for most of us with mortal souls…..anyone capable of sprinting on it could be worth listening to.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 7:19 pm
YOURS, OR ANY ADDRESS ALL OVER THE WORLD
Much faster than Google Earth.
unbelievable technology, Is there nowhere to hide ??
After opening the link below, type in the address you want slowly,
letter by letter, space by space, and watch each time where it takes you.
http://showmystreet.com/
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 7:21 pm
krazykiwi (7,824) Says:
May 1st, 2012 at 5:15 pm
It really bugs me that I am on the side of religious kooks
Not to worry Weihana. When we’re all forced to wear arm bands you’ll be able to avoid sharing supermarket checkout queues with us
Only if the misses stays at home.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 7:31 pm
v2
That is cool, new york to china to timaru to the folks place
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 7:32 pm
I got New York, Melbourne, London and Lower Hutt. Great stuff.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 7:53 pm
Griff (1,879) Says:
May 1st, 2012 at 5:26 pm
The problem is some churches actual believe that they can heal the sick with the laying on of hands or some other piece of superstitions nonsense
There have been cases in NZ were treatment has been denied children because of nut job beliefs of the more fundie of the Cristian sects and that is not only the JWs and their aversion to blood products. let alone the adults sucked into the mumbojumbo and defrauded of money and sanity
Indeed. I tend to think decisions on a child’s healthcare should be taken from the parents if the condition is serious and the parents are ignoring proven remedies on religious grounds. Children are not the property of their parents and their good health is their fundamental right.
Hopefully in the future we will have laws baning the advertisement of Christinsanity. It is a massive destroyer of reason in our society and ! for one would not like to live in a country when the level of scientific knowledge approaches that in the united states of America where almost half the population believe that the world is only six thousand years old! Its only a short step from there to a taliban type scenario
Not sure if the US is that bad. I vaguely recall reports of schools in very conservative areas reverting back to teaching evolution when the public voted out school boards which started teaching intelligent design.
In any case, the desire to have the advertising of Christianity banned seems to reflect very low confidence in the ability of reasonable people to defeat wrong ideas with words rather than legislation. If you can’t convince people with argument alone then there’s no point trying to force an idea upon them as it won’t work.
Freedom of speech must be balanced with a freedom from the propagation of out rite lies by commercial entities thats why we have advertising laws
The Chinese government couldn’t have said it better.
Who decides what is a lie? Complete freedom of contradiction is the only basis upon which a rational person can be confident that their version of the truth is accurate.
The reason we have advertising laws, or at least the reason we should have such laws, is to guard against commercial speech which is misleading. That to me means speech which sells something in such a way that the consumer is misled as to what exactly they are purchasing. That is not speech but is more a form of fraud.
The advertisement in question was clearly a religious message and anyone born on this Earth knows what religion is and what it is all about. It is disingenuous of anyone to suggest that any normal person could be misled by this advertisement. Even if one is motivated by such an advertisement to believe it is true, they still know what it is all about. They know it’s a faith-based belief. They are not misled to believe that this Church has some sort of amazing technology which might cure cancer. They are led to believe that faith can cure. That is what the Church is offering, and it is what every religion offers: FAITH.
When all religion offers is faith then it is completely meaningless to ask whether one church offers more of such nonsense than the other. If any individual chooses to believe this nonsense then that’s their own choice/fault. They haven’t been misled, they’ve just chosen to believe in something stupid.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 7:56 pm
Ah times change at present I am living on the beach up north.The summer is glorious up here. To bad it failed to arrive in summer. Still makes it more fun to shovel vast quantities of mulch and gravel around
Vote:I have been known to inhabit suburbia at times as well.Particularly when Huey has a hissy fit : hence the knowledge of Suburbus Botherus
The advantage on a boat is you get no door knockers
The disadvantage is you are awoken at 630am by the loverly girls of the local school rowing team. The glow on their teenage faces is a joy to behold at such a early hour, However the teacher with the load hailer three meters from my cabin is not.
May 1st, 2012 at 8:12 pm
Hopefully in the future we will have laws baning the advertisement of Christinsanity.
You may have to define Christianity in a more detail manner to have the right to ban anything.
A little like saying we should perhaps ban the teaching of history for similar reasons –
You can teach that the Twin Towers were destroyed in an event that occurred on 11 September 2001 – that is undisputed fact
- that the Twin Towers were destroyed by terrorists – OK
- that the Twin Towers were destroyed by Islamic terrorists – now you have a problem. It seems mostly likely this is still a fact, but there are some questions
- that the Twin Towers were destroyed by US terrorists, with the knowledge of President Bush
unproven – perhaps: as yet – but not history
The similarity of ’9/11′ to Christianity may hinge around the point whether you are a Christian who believes Jesus to be Divine or not.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 8:20 pm
Oh no, truther alert…
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 8:23 pm
Yes I was laying on a little thick against religion. I do find the claim of healing the same as those claimed by the alt med weirdos and some gullible and vulnerable people are riped of by Christianity snake oil salesman
Vote:on ID . wiki young earth creationism their stated stat is between 40% and 50% depending on survey believe the earth is around six thousand years old
I have posted previously a link where miss USA candidates are asked about teaching intelligent design in biology. The consensus among the candidates is yes. You can see some are only trying not to undermine Cristian beliefs
sorry I can not supply links
Children have been harmed and terrified by religion for century’s Many comments have been posted by both atheists and xians asserting that fact on this blog
At some point in the future programming such nonsense into children will become unacceptable to society
don’t worry KK lee01 et al not in my lifetime or yours
May 1st, 2012 at 8:29 pm
No General Debate on May 1st is a DOS attack on that person we don’t acknowledge. He suffers without attention.
Vote:Shit stirring comments on other posts will get a quick ban.
Thermonuclear meltdown soon
May 1st, 2012 at 8:31 pm
mikemmild – I’m sorry
Vote:If your reaction to my history example is “nutter alert”, I could have not expressed myself properly
But your reaction does demonstrate what I was trying to indicate
To ban something as diverse as Christianity would be the equivalent of banning history which is also as multilevelled ?
May 1st, 2012 at 8:33 pm
Teachers & Cops:
These are actual comments made on students’ report cards by teachers in the New York City public school system. All teachers were reprimanded (but, boy, are these funny!)
1. Since my last report, your child has reached rock bottom and has started to dig.
2. I would not allow this student to breed.
3. Your child has delusions of adequacy.
4. Your son is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot. (my favourite…)
5. Your son sets low personal standards and then consistently fails to achieve them.
6. The student has a ‘full six-pack’ but lacks the plastic thing to hold it all together.
7. This child has been working with glue too much.
8. When your daughter’s IQ reaches 50, she should sell.
9. The gates are down, the lights are flashing, but the train isn’t coming..
10 If this student were any more stupid, he’d have to be watered twice a week.
11 It’s impossible to believe the sperm that created this child beat out 1,000,000 others.
12 The wheel is turning but the hamster is definitely dead.
These are actual comments made by 16 Police Officers. The comments were taken off actual police car videos around the country:
1. “You know, stop lights don’t come any redder than the one you just went through.”
2. “Relax, the handcuffs are tight because they’re new. They’ll stretch after you wear them a while.”
3. “If you take your hands off the car, I’ll make your birth certificate a worthless document.”
4. “If you run, you’ll only go to jail tired.”
5. “Can you run faster than 1200 feet per second? Because that’s the speed of the bullet that’ll be chasing you.” (LOVE IT)
6. “You don’t know how fast you were going? I guess that means I can write anything I want to on the ticket, huh?” (MY FAVORITE)
7. “Yes, sir, you can talk to the shift supervisor, but I don’t think it will help. Oh, did I mention that I’m the shift supervisor?”
8. “Warning! You want a warning? O.K, I’m warning you not to do that again or I’ll give you another ticket.”
9. “The answer to this last question will determine whether you are drunk or not. Was Mickey Mouse a cat or a dog?”
10 “Fair? You want me to be fair? Listen, fair is a place where you go to ride on rides, eat cotton candy and corn dogs and step in monkey poop.”
11 “Yeah, we have a quota. Two more tickets and my wife gets a toaster oven.”
12 “In God we trust; all others we run through NCIC.” (National Crime Information Centre)
13 “Just how big were those ‘two beers’ you say you had?”
14 “No sir, we don’t have quotas anymore. We used to, but now we’re allowed to write as many tickets as we can.”
15 “I’m glad to hear that the Chief (of Police) is a personal friend of yours. So you know someone who can post your bail.”
AND THE WINNER IS….
16 “You didn’t think we give pretty women tickets? You’re right, we don’t.. Sign here.”
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 8:39 pm
Some Christians believe that prayer can heal, and say that they have seen instances with their own eyes. Some Chrisitians do not believe this.
Some people believe the Twin Towers collapse on 11/09/2001 was a vast Government conspiracy, and provide evidence – engineer reports and the like – to “prove” this. Other people do not believe this.
Some people believe that the moon landings were faked, and have provided “proof” to explain this. Other people do not believe this.
Some people believe they have seen UFOs, some believe this is all hogwash.
Some people believe that man-made climate change is real, some believe it all made up by companies with a vested interest.
Some people believe that Hone Harawira is a saint who will save his people, many people are utterly sick of him.
Some people believe that only a right-wing government can bring prosperity to a society, some people believe only a left-wing government can do this.
Many people believe many different things. As long as they don’t hurt others with their beliefs, live and let live I say.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 9:07 pm
“Jesus loves you.”
A nice gesture in church.
An horrific thing to hear in a Mexican prison.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 9:08 pm
Many people believe many different things. As long as they don’t hurt others with their beliefs, live and let live I say.
Which is basically what one version of Christianity thinks Jesus taught [and even give up your our life for others if need be, which distinguishes him a bit from other 'wise persons']
Vote:but other people do not believe this.
So back to where we were.
May 1st, 2012 at 9:11 pm
I fell down some stairs in a Spanish hotel and landed on the marble floor in the foyer.
Vote:But Jesus helped me up.
He was on the Reception Desk at the time. Nice touch, I thought
May 1st, 2012 at 9:22 pm
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 9:33 pm
On 23rd March the Uk Met Office issued an outlook covering April/May/June, noting:
Ok, so what happened?
This: April is the wettest month for 100 years.
The Met Office’s forecasting super-computer is capable of 1,000 billion calculations every second to feed data to 400 scientists and uses 1.2 megawatts of energy to run – enough to power more than 1,000 homes.
Words fail me.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 9:59 pm
Gi/GO Still applies then? Nothing has changed then.
8) 
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 10:05 pm
Update on Fukushima:
Here’s a photo of it:
http://akiomatsumura.com/2012/02/correspondence-on-the-new-photo-of-reactor-unit-no-4-at-fukushima.html
And here’s a link to a Russian story saying Japan diplomats have asked Russian diplomats to consider giving them the Kuril islands based on a potential evac of 40 million Japanese citizens from Eastern seaboard cities including Tokyo itself.
http://www.eutimes.net/2012/04/russia-stunned-after-japanese-plan-to-evacuate-40-million-revealed/
It’s a shame for those who haven’t even understood the elementary basics of 911 over a decade after it happened that they are therefore also incapable of understanding what’s really been going on with Fukushima as well since it’s been quite interesting watching it over the last year. It wasn’t just what it appears, these things never are, but there’s no point in explaining what it really was, to people who haven’t even got a frame of reference for these things. Ah well, their loss. Funny about those Chinese cities mentioned in the second link isn’t it. Brand new deserted cities, built years ago, capable of holding 60 million people. Just waiting for lots of Japanese to come? Who woulda thunk eh? Funny how some people with very deep pockets have been buying up massive lots of foreclosed apartment complexes on Florida’s east coast too. I wonder what they know that the rest of us don’t.
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 11:01 pm
Gi/GO Still applies then? Nothing has changed then.
No – sometimes twice as much garbage comes out as what goes in
Vote:May 2nd, 2012 at 8:42 am
Banks lies again:
“I certainly don’t lie”
Can’t help himself. He reminds me of Cartman in many ways.
Vote:May 2nd, 2012 at 8:47 am
Still no new General Debate?
Vote:May 2nd, 2012 at 9:03 am
The absence of GD removes the incentive to look at Kiwi Blog
Vote: