General Debate 6 April 2012

April 6th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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135 Responses to “General Debate 6 April 2012”

  1. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    I’ve never cared much about political definitions and labels, they’ve seemed restrictive and pointless. I’ve tried to look at things objectively without a preconceived position, to learn about pros and cons and then to decide. And also to allow decisions to be modified if further learning justifies it.

    But this description of liberal centrism and Liberal Democrats is some thing I readily identify with (not so much the frog).

    Liberal Democrats and Kermit the Frog

    The liberal centrist approach requires a sensibility and a pragmatism that often does not sit comfortably with the prevailing political debate. It is inevitably much easier to be “for” something, or “against “ it in a sort of soapbox way, than it is to take a more discerning approach based on the particular circumstances of the time and the best response to them.

    To the cynic such detached objectivism is not only passionless, and therefore lacking commitment, but also unprincipled and opportunist, easily dismissed as “wishy-washy”, or “standing for nothing”, or “just having an eye for the main chance.” Far better, the cynic argues to be unmistakeably “right” or “wrong” as the case may be, because at least that way everyone is left in no doubt as to where you stand, regardless of the consequences.

    Principles, it would seem, are the millstones ideologically based political parties attach to their own necks. To the liberal centrist, however, principles are enduring values which enable one to decide how to respond effectively to changing times and the actual situation. To the cynic, being rigidly “for” or “against” something is principled – whereas using principles to guide behaviour is “convenient” or “pragmatic” in the most disparaging way.

    …the liberal centrist espouses and operates by the values of decency and honesty, and getting things done, while pricking the balloons of social and political pretension.

    I know some people won’t be happy with this. I’ll post it on a variety of blogs and will inevitably it will be abused, I’ll likely be attacked personally, and Peter Dunne will again be heaped with scorn.

    I’ve been called all of the usual insults, “wishy-washy”, “standing for nothing”, and “sitting on the fence”. By people too blinkered or extreme to understand centrism.

    But I hope that more moderate readers (often they’re the silent readers), will see something in this that makes sense. It seems like common sense to me.

    And the reality is that National and Labour have been substantially around about the liberal centre in many respects.

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  2. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    http://whoar.co.nz/2012/kurt-cobain-death-anniversary-remembering-the-late-singer-with-9-most-memorable-nirvana-performances-video/

    “…Now 18 years later – we remember Cobain for his music and legendary musical influence on future artists.

    Here are some of our favorite Nirvana performances…”

    phillip ure@whoar.co.nz

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  3. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Polar Bears pushed to extinction!

    Polar bears are internationally recognized as a threatened species—their future is uncertain in the face the rapid changes to their Arctic habitat from global warming.They estimated that by 2011, the population would decrease to about 610. This species is being pushed inexorably toward extinction: Without help, the U.S. Geological Survey predicts that two-thirds of the world’s polar bears — including all polar bears in Alaska — will probably be gone by 2050.

    This doomsday scenario was brought to you by Dr. Suzuki and the rest of the Global Warmist.
    This concensus scientist is (As per his own web page) recognized as a world leader in sustainable ecology. He is the recipient of UNESCO’s Kalinga Prize for Science, the United Nations Environment Program Medal, UNEPs Global 500 and in 2009 won the Right Livelihood Award that is considered the Alternative Nobel Prize.
    Wow, pat on the back from the Global Warmists and members of the “Post-Normal-Science” club.
    The real science is now called alt-science according to Griff.

    As the famous scientist Lucy Lawless tells us “Don’t they want their kids to grow up in a world where polar bears and the magical narwhal still exist?”

    What does alt-science tell us?

    Healthy polar bear count confounds doomsayers
    April 04, 2012

    The debate about climate change and its impact on polar bears has intensified with the release of a survey that shows the bear population in a key part of northern Canada is far larger (66%) than many scientists thought, and might be growing.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/healthy-polar-bear-count-confounds-doomsayers/article2392523/

    Just waiting for the usual Post-Normal Science method of “Argumentum ad populum”, “Argumentum ad verecundiam” and ad hominem to “counter the data”.
    What do the alt-scientists know? They are so old fashioned.
    They actually count polar bears and base their predictions on observations and real data instead of fancy computer models.
    They are probably funded by big oil and coal.
    Alt science, sheep!

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  4. Nookin (3,341 comments) says:

    The Hurricanes may be well rid of them. Who would be Pat Lam now?

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  5. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    More news from the post modern (normal) media

    Brought to you by PALM (The Propaganda and Lies Media), a subsidary of Minitrue

    There are no terrorists in the UK

    The Biased BBC who brought you daily updates on the Global Warming doomsday scenario (Drowning polarbears, sinking islands and melting glaciers) now brings you:

    Babar Ahmed, the terrorist suspect is innocent.
    Why?
    “Because he says so.”

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100149529/terrorism-suspect-says-hes-innocent-shock-horror-so-tell-us-bbc-just-how-much-of-our-money-did-you-spend-securing-this-exclusive/

    Robert Fisk is an honest non-biased reporter

    Robert Fisk, a stauch Hizbollah supporter and anti semitic zionist is caught making things up (again).

    I do not make stories up,’ says an embattled Robert Fisk

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100148094/i-do-not-make-stories-up-says-an-embattled-robert-fisk/

    “Whites” are racists

    In the US, NBC News doctored the 911 call placed by George Zimmerman that made it appear he was racially profiling Trayvon Martin the night he killed him.

    Here is the real audio:

    ZIMMERMAN: This guy looks like he’s up to no good, [begin ellipsis] or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.
    911 DISPATCHER: Okay, is this guy, is he white, black, or Hispanic? [end ellipsis]
    ZIMMERMAN: He looks black.

    And here’s how NBC’s rendered (doctored) that sequence:

    “This guy looks like he’s up to no good … he looks black,” Zimmerman told a police dispatcher from his car.

    http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/04/nbc-jumps-shark-george-zimmerman

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  6. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    Quite so Nookin; quite so.

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  7. Leaping Jimmy (16,442 comments) says:

    http://zen-haven.dk/driving-inside-the-soviets-secret-submarine-lair/

    Keeeewl.

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  8. Stamper (32 comments) says:

    Re – Other_Andy
    Their continuing problem is they make wild [scary] statements which come back to prove them wrong.
    Science has been replaced by political agenda.
    Another of their problems is “HadCRUT4 global temperature database shows that there has been no global warming in the past 15 years”
    The satellite data is exposing their falsehoods as the data is public and they can’t massage it to suit there stories.

    Plus Joe Public is getting tired of the whole beat-up.

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  9. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Pat Lam recently criticised Otago for spending too much on the wrong sort of players.

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  10. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    O_A is making a common mistake (again) of confusing criticism of Israel with anti-semitism.

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  11. niggly (830 comments) says:

    That is fascinating LJ!

    (Ya know, sometimes there’s something to be said about these Totalatarian regimes when it comes to massive capital works development, the then USSR, and China today, make the likes of NZ look like the equivalent of kids building sandcastles at the beach and thanks to red tape and Greenie protestors, it may take the poor kid 10 years to build said sand castle) :-)

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  12. TimG_Oz (862 comments) says:

    Happy Easter / Passover, everybody!

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  13. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    No mikenmild.
    I have had enough of the hypocricy of PALM and its supporters and them trying to dress up anti-semitism as legitemate criticism of Israel.

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  14. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    Not looking good. Looks like PSA is China based and has infected both Italy and NZ with the possibility that Chile could be next. Imported pollen may well be the source.

    China blamed for Psa-V outbreak
    RICHARD MEADOWS
    Last updated 11:49 04/04/2012

    SEEKING ANSWERS: Researchers are investigating the origins of the disease and the optimal treatment of Psa.
    Scientists are on the edge of unravelling the origins of the Psa-V disease devastating the country’s kiwifruit vines – and China is the most likely culprit.

    A team of Otago University biochemists is confident it will be able to confirm the source of the virulent disease, which was first detected here in November 2010.

    The scientists were able to map out the bacterium’s entire genetic code using a multi-million dollar advanced genetic sequencer, provided through the government-funded New Zealand Genomics Limited (NZGL).

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/6692377/China-blamed-for-Psa-V-outbreak

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  15. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    New spider found.

    http://bit.ly/HhgGvA

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  16. Leaping Jimmy (16,442 comments) says:

    Happy Easter / Passover, everybody!

    Thank you Tim. You too.

    Have a look at this.

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  17. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    @Viking

    Thanks for the spider article.

    Some good news on the kiwi front.

    Zespri pins hopes on new gold variety

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10793643

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  18. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    http://whoar.co.nz/2012/deciphering-right-wing-code-what-conservatives-are-really-saying-when-they-seem-to-spew-nonsense/

    “…It’s not news when a conservative says something that was flat-out wrong – or when liberals take smug satisfaction in demonstrating that they are (as usual) factually right.

    But there was something else Santorum said in that statement that was newsworthy and important – –

    – and in our zeal to debunk the facts – many progressives are completely missing it.

    It’s Not About the Facts

    The thing to remember is this: Even though right-wing narratives are often factually wrong –

    – they are absolutely never content-free…”

    (cont..)

    phillip ure@whoar.co.nz

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  19. Dave Mann (1,218 comments) says:

    Here’s the latest piece of eco-fuckery from (who else?) some academic idiots in a couple of universities. They want humans to ‘consider’ biologically modifying themselves to be ‘greener’ so that humanity is not so harmful to the fucking planet.

    This is not satire. These assholes are real and they are actually proposingthis crap….

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/6703760/Final-frontier-of-climate-policy-remake-humans

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  20. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    OA. yep but its not as good as the current variety to taste and it takes 2 to 3 years to get production back up.
    Just shows how careful we need to be with imported strains and bits of anything. Much like imported humans.

    The reason the dairy and meat industries have been under so much scrutiny forever. Bacteria. In humans who are not used to a particular strain it causes havoc. Much like the deli belli does to travellers.

    On the spider. I thought he was an interesting little character for his colour and size.

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  21. TimG_Oz (862 comments) says:

    Thanks Reid/LJ,

    Yes there is a lot of similar views in this movement:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWmCYPPKZ4g
    http://www.facebook.com/IranlovesIsrael.OfficialPage
    http://www.facebook.com/israellovesiran

    Regards

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  22. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    Other Andy,

    Good links, thanks.

    Robert Fisk is a liar? Whoda thought!

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  23. grumpyoldhori (2,362 comments) says:

    What the fuck are the cops trying to hide in not giving back the computers containing the video that shows the raid on Dotcom’s place.
    Was there FBI types taking part in the raid ? were they armed ? strange that if it happened as FBI types are not sworn NZ police.

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  24. publicwatchdog (2,593 comments) says:

    Most Kiwibloggers would agree with this – wouldn’t you?

    ZERO TOLERANCE FOR ‘WHITE COLLAR’ CRIMINALS!

    ‘One law for all’?

    Where’s the consistency in the application of ‘one law for all’ for ‘white collar’ criminals in their charging, convicting and sentencing?

    How come former fellow Directors of Huljich Weatlh Management (NZ) Ltd John Banks and Don Brash, who signed Huljich Kiwisaver Scheme registered prospectuses dated 22 August 2008 and 18 September 2009 which contained untrue statements have never even been CHARGED under s58 (3) of the Securities Act 1978?

    How come ACT’s ‘one law for all’ has yet to apply to the current and former ‘Leaders’ of the ACT Party, John Banks and Don Brash?

    How come not one of either the (former) Securities Commission, the Finance Markets Authority (FMA), the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) or the NZ Police have been seen to have ‘done their job’ and even CHARGED the ‘Huljich Two’ for allegedly misleading investors, by signing Huljich Kiwisaver Scheme registered prospectuses dated 22 August 2008 and 18 September 2009 which contained untrue statements?

    How is this not to be ‘perceived’ by the public, as an arguably corrupt form of political protection, given that this National Government is dependent on the vote of ACT MP for Epsom – the Minister of Regulatory Reform – John Banks in order to maintain the balance of power?

    An arguably corrupt form of political protection – happening here in New Zealand – ‘perceived’ to be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ ?
    (According to Transparency International’s 2011 ‘Corruption Perception Index’).

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
    waterpressure@gmail.com

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  25. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    http://whoar.co.nz/2012/commentwhoar-howwhy-it-was-good-for-the-greens-that-helen-clark-screwed-them-over-twice/

    news:..latest poll has national dropping 4.5%..greens gaining 4.5%..labour unchanged..

    ed:..i think that direct transference of poll support from national to the greens has to have labour worried..

    ..greens’ co-leader norman is looking more and more competent in his job..

    ..and time/perspective is a funny thing…

    ..and in hindsight..

    ..(cont..)

    phillip ure@whoar.co.nz

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  26. Yvette (2,809 comments) says:

    Penny – what your comments this morning fail to mention is that this matter is now before Parliament for full consideration and most sane, intelligent people will await this taking its due course and eventually producing a result.

    As has been pointed out to you before [to a degree now that is about as boring as your mention of the matter in the first place] Winston Peters is the one person in New Zealand most likely to benefit from any action that would see Banks loose his current position – so do you think that Winston, with his legal experience and advice, and a master of convoluted thinking and conspiracy detection, has not fully examined any possibility that would see Banks thrown out of Parliament on his arse?

    Neither the (former) Securities Commission, the Finance Markets Authority (FMA), the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) nor the NZ Police, will lift a finger to consider this matter again until Parliament has handled what you have put before them.

    Move on, Penny, to something else while you wait the result of what you have initiated.

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  27. Put it away (2,878 comments) says:

    Penny Not-Very, as has explained to you many times, we have a thing called the rule of law (which you clearly believe applies to you only at your convenience), they are not being charged because they did nothing wrong. The dodgy dealings were done in secret by Hujlich. The law’s purpose is not to be a means to persecute people with trumped up charges simply because their politics are different from yours, that is corruption. And we all know how much you hate corruption…

    Idiot.

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  28. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    Philu- Cobain was massively overrated. If he hadn’t blown his head off he would be just another ageing ‘grunger’ (like Vedder and Cornell)..
    As for his “legendary musical influence on future artists” ..like who? He certainly wasn’t the first grunge band (think Mother Love Bone/Temple of the Dog).
    His big hit was ‘Smells like Teen Spirit’ a song that Cobain himself admitted he stole the riff for ( Boston’s ‘More than a Feeling’). Most Nirvana fans also live blissfully unaware that ‘The Man who stole the World’ was in fact stolen off Bowie!
    So apart from stealing a few tunes from other artists, shagging Courtney Love, not washing and whining alot, what did he really contribute? As Lemmy puts it “Every musician gets a lot better after they die!”
    Lets be honest, putting a gun in his mouth was the best career move this mopey little man ever made

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  29. AlphaKiwi (683 comments) says:

    Unforeseen problems of the black and white stricter abortion laws in Nebraska. Let’s hope the legislators reintroduce a bit of grey.

    http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/nebraska-couple-watches-their-baby-die-because-of-new-law-2462071.html

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  30. Dave Mann (1,218 comments) says:

    I find it depressing that the two biggest fuckwits on this blog (Penny Bright and philu) are the ones who raise the most reaction. Every time one of them comes here and shits all over the thread they are fed by a torrent of comments and refutations.

    Why do you continue to buy into their rubbish? Can’t you just ignore them? They will (metaphorically) die without food.

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  31. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    um..!..it is actually..’the man who sold the world’…(hmm!!..ask yr analyst about that one..eh..?..bitta ‘projection’..?..maybe..?..)

    ..and that you get that basic fact wrong…couldn’t be a clearer indicator of the merits ..or not..of yr other words..eh..?..

    ..and is ‘lenmy’ yr touchstone..?..is he..?

    ..phillip ure@whoar.co.nz

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  32. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    Lotsa submarine pics.

    http://englishrussia.com/2011/12/02/back-to-the-secret-underground-complex-of-balaklava/

    http://englishrussia.com/2008/02/29/russian-underground-submarine-base/

    http://englishrussia.com/2009/04/14/worlds-biggest-submarine/

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  33. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    is being ignored getting you down there..mann..?

    ..i see/hear/feel yr pain…

    phillip ure@whoar.co.nz

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  34. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Tim, here’s a nice Easter hymn for you. Beautiful singing (harmony).

    Christ the Lord is Risen Today (Mormon Tabernacle Choir)

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  35. Rat (383 comments) says:

    Longknives

    Before the Intro to ‘The Man Who Sold The World” , Cobain said on the Unplugged Album, ‘This a song by Bowie”, so your claim of Nirvana Fans being unaware are totally inaccurate

    Not really sure of your point of attacking Cobain as there is no accounting for taste, so in fairness, please note your favourite performer, so we can crucify him/her

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  36. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    Phil I don’t think you are in a position to be picking me up on a minor grammatical error…

    My point being that as a huge music fan I get a little tired of Cobain being placed on a pedestal that I don’t think he deserves. I actually had a couple of Nirvana albums in the day but always preferred the harder sound of Alice in Chains and Soundgarden from that era. Then when Cobain died Dylan Tate was on the telly saying this was as big a loss as Elvis! (Utter bollocks!)

    And I won’t hear a bad word about Ian Fraser Kilmister!

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  37. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    I reckon that the next president of the United States after this year’s election will be a Mormon. I’ve only seen Mitt Romney briefly on news at his local Mormon Church, singing Hallelujah . Man, this presidential guy can really sing. The news crew (particularly the camera man) was about a metre away from Romney and his wife when they were filming them at their church.

    I don’t care if the next president is atheist or religious, as long as this fucker, Obama is out of office. I’m a Ron Paul supporter, , anyone but Obama is much better.

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  38. Leaping Jimmy (16,442 comments) says:

    Tim the I&I dynamic is the key.

    This guy knows more than any other about this. I have a book I’d be happy to send you, which explains this in detail.

    http://www.senderberl.com/Interview_August_5_2002.mp3

    http://www.senderberl.com/Interview_August_7_2006.mp3

    http://www.senderberl.com/Interview_June_21_2010.mp3

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  39. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    Hey Leo, you missed this gathering.

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  40. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Anyone but Obama eh? Ha ha. Perhaps you’re upset at Gingrich, Perry, Cain and assorted other wackos falling by the wayside, coz they would have been better too?

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  41. Don the Kiwi (1,750 comments) says:

    mnm

    Anyone – ANYONE -would be better than Obumbler, the worst ever president of the USA.

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  42. Leaping Jimmy (16,442 comments) says:

    mm surely you can see Obama is an appalling POTUS? He’s no better, no better, than Bush 43, Clinton or Bush 41. How anyone can support any of those 4, whatever their politics, is completely beyond my understanding because how dumb would you have to be, to do that?

    This is like still believing Hulun really was a good PM, even when now she’s left, one can now easily begin to see the appalling results of her calamitous policies laid bare. (Some of us saw it at the time and said so but hey, we don’t expect everyone to have perspicacity. But fuck, surely everyone sees that now, don’t they?)

    Don, as bad as Obama is, he cannot compete with Bush 43 and Bush 41 for that title. Those two are first equal in that particular race, if anything Bush 41 edges out 43 because he did it on purpose, 43 did it because he’s an idiot.

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  43. Rat (383 comments) says:

    But Cobain was as big as Elvis to that Generation, Elvis didnt invent RocknRoll, but was still the icon associated with it, and had the followers at the time. Cobain had the followers at the time, and to be honest I dont think his status improved as a result of his death.

    One only associates Cornell with Soundgarden and a poor Zac replacement for Rage, Cobain is more associated with grunge than Nirvana.

    Mr Kilimister comes from Stoke… enough said, a good musical city

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  44. Grant (443 comments) says:

    While we’re discussing modern music……..

    The ” Father of Loud”, Jim Marshall OBE , died today.

    http://marshallamps.com/

    I’m proud to own and play one.

    Rock on Jim.
    G

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  45. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    Cha,

    That really the best you can do?

    For what its worth, and I know trying to talk rationally with liberal cultists is pointless, but I would be one of the most pro-Jewish/pro-Israel people posting here.

    But hey, its not your fault. You have been told (brainwashed) to believe that anyone who questions the supposedly inherent evil of all whites and the inherent saintliness and innocence of all blacks must be a raaaacist!!!

    Get over it. Try thinking for yourself.

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  46. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Don
    Worst ever? Even LJ only rates him worse than the Bushes/Clinton.

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  47. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Does being ‘pro-Jewish’ imply one is anti something (or some people) else.

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  48. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    “But Cobain was as big as Elvis to that Generation”- No chance mate! That was my generation….and Cobain wasn’t even the biggest player at the time (until he died of course)…

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  49. Rat (383 comments) says:

    There was no-one else in that generation…. unless you were witnessing the professional death of Axl Rose

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  50. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    I suspect that Leo is one of the Christian Wrong.

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  51. tom hunter (4,809 comments) says:

    Another interesting piece from Russell Mead on what the prospects are for what he calls the “Blue Social Model”, and the crisis it’s heading for, along with what they might mean for the developing world, not just the developed:

    For countries like Brazil, India, South Africa and China, this raises profound questions. What is it that they are trying to do? What are they trying to become? Is their goal to emulate the social market economies that the west enjoyed a generation ago? Are they hoping to build a stable mass middle class on the basis of big box factory work and armies of white collar middle managers that dominated American life in 1970?

    And if that isn’t the goal, what is?

    For now, much of the world is running on autopilot. The “developing” countries are generally sticking with the old paradigm: that development is the process of turning blue and that Fordist industrialization can and will yield mass prosperity.

    But they are likely to discover that this isn’t true. China will not be able to build a western style welfare state as its GDP grows. The South African labor unions won’t be able to turn the country into Detroit at its peak, with lifetime employment at high wages for a unionized work force.

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  52. Leaping Jimmy (16,442 comments) says:

    “LJ only rates him worse than the Bushes/Clinton”

    mm, Bush 41/43, Clinton, Obama altogether make up the four worst POTUS’ ever. The precise order within that four isn’t really relevant.

    It may be that Obama’s successor becomes part of a new group of five and the way things are going with the things I know are happening and why, I not only wouldn’t be surprised to see that, I’d be surprised if I didn’t see that.

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  53. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    It is said that when Elvis died someone in the music industry said “good career move,” but that’s far more appropriate to Cobain who was little more than an American Morrissey (popular with self-pitying teenagers) until his suicide; whereupon he was deified.

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  54. Fletch (6,367 comments) says:

    Anyone – ANYONE -would be better than Obumbler, the worst ever president of the USA.

    Absolutely.

    According to one quote –

    “(Bush) came in one day to rehearse a speech, fuming. ‘This is a dangerous world,’ he said for no apparent reason, ‘and this cat isn’t remotely qualified to handle it. This guy has no clue, I promise you,'” Latimer said.

    How right Bush was on that one. Obama has no clue

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  55. TimG_Oz (862 comments) says:

    Thanks LJ/Reid.

    Not sure what the I&I is they key to (that you refer to). The key for me is that Iran is controlled by a Theocratic dictatorship. The people are lovely, and there is no reason that there needs to be antagonism. At this stage I am not convinced it is more than sabre rattling, but I’d still rather that it didn’t occur

    If you are offering the book “Clarity” by Joseph Ehrlich, then thanks, but no thanks.

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  56. Rat (383 comments) says:

    But who hasnt been deified when they died, the difference was that Cobain, along with Hendrix, Morrisson, Curtis, Joplin, both Buckleys, reinvigorated Lennon and Strummer, Hoon, etc were about to or were at their peak.

    Elvis faded away and then burnt out, now that was a correct career move, to be done when the star has faded, which is what your original quote refers to. Same applies to Houston.

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  57. noskire (842 comments) says:

    Well if GD is going to semi-morph into a music debate today, here’s a clip from YouTube of the 2011 Rockquest winners. Probably only appeals to those with a taste for indie pop-rock – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCLHhcQ74rA&feature=relmfu

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  58. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    If were’re going to morph into a music thread here’s Bruce Springsteen’s SXSW 2012 Keynote Speech and a transcript.

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  59. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    Fascinating read Tom, thanks.

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  60. Fletch (6,367 comments) says:

    Springsteen – the guy whose occupation is listed as ‘Farmer’ so he doesn’t have to pay as much tax…

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  61. Rat (383 comments) says:

    Seeing we are morphed into a music thread here’s Zac De La Rocha in Auckland 2008 talking about he was misquoted about assassinating George W Bush http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55O0DBt7YpE most intense concert Ive been to as well

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  62. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    Were’re $147 billion in the hole, almost 80% of GDP, and Bliglish wants to lend the IMF money.

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  63. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    Well put Wat Dabney!!
    “An American Morissey (popular with self-pitying teenagers)” Ha!
    Reminds me of my University days, there were a number of Cobain wannabes mooching round the University, refusing to wash and wearing a permanent sulk with their ‘Rape Me’ T-Shirts..The “Elvis of our generation”? Not freaking likely..

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  64. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Noskire, here are two of my classic teen-poppers and funk of yesterday , here and here.

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  65. Don the Kiwi (1,750 comments) says:

    mnm, LJ.

    Actually, Jimmeh Carter was the worst pres. up until this wanker thats infests/infects the White House at present.

    Bush 41 was mediocre at best.
    I actually had a fair bit of time for Dubya, but toward the end of his last term, events overtook him – but I wouldn’t put him in the worst category.
    Clinton was certainly charismatic and , even tho’ I disliked his politics and many of his decisions and his other antics, I rated him economically, but he hated hard decisions, he wouldn’t make a decision until he tested which way the wind was blowing, and on that basis he is toward the bottom of the heap.

    Bring back Ronnie Reagan, I say.

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  66. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    Interesting list Rat but Strummer at his peak when he died?? London Calling was a fair old while ago….

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  67. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    The speech is about popular music Fletch but then you wouldn’t be interested would you because he’s a filthy progressive isn’t he.

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  68. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    Falafulu Fisi- Enjoyed the Funky links! Bobby Brown in slightly better days….

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  69. Fletch (6,367 comments) says:

    cha, I own and enjoy a lot of Springsteen.
    I didn’t like the new album Wrecking Ball though.. The music sounded too generic or something, not like the previous two albums.

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  70. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Longknives, I reckon that Bobby Brown who introduced drugs into Whitney Houston’s life. Considering that Whitney grew up as a religious girl, I doubt that she ever had drugs before she met Bobby. I love Whitney’s music too.

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  71. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    WARNING!!!!

    If you’re going outdoors in the North Island over Easter ensure you

    – wear fluorescent, highly coloured clothing

    – talk loudly and carry some sort of loud hailer

    – don’t go out in the dark, or in low light early in the morning or in the early evening.

    – don’t utter anything that might identify you as a lefty, greeny, or liberal.

    What’s happening?

    Whale is on a hunting trip, armed as he warns…

    So off to pack my .17HMR, .308 and 12ga…that oughta do it for anything I come across.

    He indicates he might knock over a few reds, wanting this to be taken as red deer, of course.

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  72. noskire (842 comments) says:

    Classic prog rock from Genesis whilst Collins was still in his rightful place behind the drums.

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  73. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    Certainly takes me back Falafulu Fisi- To my childhood days eagerly watching the top 20 countdown on Ready To Roll! There was nothing worse than someone you hated getting the coveted No1 spot…(Like my sister’s beloved Wham!)

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  74. Fletch (6,367 comments) says:

    There was nothing worse than someone you hated getting the coveted No1 spot…

    Like Poi E for weeks and weeks. It was OK as a novelty to begin with but got on my nerves after a couple weeks.

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  75. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    A Something Awful thread with some of the most truly awful music videos ever.

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  76. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    Apparently the worst music video ever- (Though I find it strangely haunting and hard to look away…)

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  77. noskire (842 comments) says:

    From Not The Nine O’Clock News I Like Trucking.

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  78. Nookin (3,341 comments) says:

    Talking of Springsteen, anyone seen Orbison’s Black and White night with Springsteen, Elvis Costello, Waits, Jackson Brown, T Bone Burnett Bonnie Raitt. k.d. Lang and Jennfifer Warnes?
    Awesome stuff

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  79. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    noskire – ha ha. Loved this show. Very 80’s. Good times

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  80. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Awesome vid of While My Guitar Gently Weeps … on a ukulele.

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  81. DJP6-25 (1,387 comments) says:

    Leaping Jimmy 8:48 am. Thanks for the interesting link.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  82. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    There’s no comparison between Elvis and Cobain. You don’t keep hearing of sightings of Cobain, do you.

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  83. noskire (842 comments) says:

    The brilliance of John Williams the classical guitarist, not the composer.

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  84. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    jim said:..”..one can now easily begin to see the appalling results of (their) calamitous policies laid bare…”

    that more explains nationals’ plunge in popularity…

    ..and it will get much worse..drop much further…eh..?

    ..and look out for a revolt from backbenchers/marginal-seaters staring political oblivion in the face..

    ..that should be fun to watch..

    phillip ure@whoar.co.nz

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  85. noskire (842 comments) says:

    krazykiwi – that’s pretty impressive.

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  86. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    One of those Youtube links led me to this. Choi Sun-Bong, a story and a voice that seems to check out as true.

    Homeless Boy Steals The Talent Show

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  87. Peter (1,712 comments) says:

    Greens fail high school economics, yet again.

    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2012/04/06/an-open-letter-to-ministers-about-the-chch-housing-crisis/

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  88. noskire (842 comments) says:

    krazykiwi – Shimabukuro with Tommy Emmanuel.

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  89. noskire (842 comments) says:

    Edit: oops, link is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnJfo74Y4rQ

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  90. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Don
    Ronnie Reagan eh? It may be that decades need to elspase before reasoned judgement emerges about the record of political leaders. The US have had all shades, and their reputations have risen or fallen over time.

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  91. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Some presidents, Such as Washington, Lincoln and Rossevelt, have been consistently ranked highly. Interestingly, no presidents since WWII have been rated very highly in comparative surveys, so it maight just be a matter of time for consensus to emerge.

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  92. Leaping Jimmy (16,442 comments) says:

    If you are offering the book “Clarity” by Joseph Ehrlich, then thanks, but no thanks.

    I was and if you’ve decided no, then can I ask why you feel that way Tim? It’s just I would expect that people like Efraim Halevy and others in similar positions will have read this work because it explains a lot about how things work.

    If you’ve decided there’s nothing in Clarity therefore, I’d be interested in your reasoning, that’s all.

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  93. TimG_Oz (862 comments) says:

    Sure Reid,

    I guess I keep my reading towards the center mainstream. Esteemed Journalists, Politicians, people within particular public positions.

    JE, seems like an outlier to me. There’s plenty out there, and I don’t really feel the need to invest my time. Happy to consider other information if you can provide, i.e. Author Bio of the agencies he has worked with etc. Do you really think he has been read by mideast peacemakers?

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  94. Leaping Jimmy (16,442 comments) says:

    Do you really think he has been read by mideast peacemakers?

    I’m certain of it, also politicians and all the major intelligence agencies not just ME but elsewhere. His China analyses are the best I can find. I’m not talking about his analytical articles on the website but the predictions and analyses he gives to real time events like in China with Bo Xilai and the Zimmerman shooting in the US.

    Check your email.

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  95. tom hunter (4,809 comments) says:

    Little politics, no AGW or the rest …. Just music.

    Great.

    Thanks for the ukele link krazykiwi – 10 million hits, not bad. In that case I thought you all might enjoy the following – 6 million hits and gaining as one hell of a viral success: In Your Arms – Kina Grannis. Beautiful and done with several hundred thousand jelly beans. There’s a how-they-made-it link.

    It did remind me of this great Peter Gabriel hit – and my kids agreed!

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  96. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    tom – Amazing jelly beans. Even ‘kiwi’ ones :) Another spectacular guitar vid is Andy McKee – Drifting. 43m hits, and this guy is self-taught

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  97. tom hunter (4,809 comments) says:

    That’s perhaps the most amazing one yet. I can see the self-taught aspect as I’ve never seen anyone play a guitar like that.

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  98. Don the Kiwi (1,750 comments) says:

    OK.
    While we’re pedalling yuotube, I came across this amazing kid last week. You may have seen him – I think he’s amazing.
    He’s doing gospell on this clip, but he’s excellent on other stuff as well – check it, Jotta.A

    http://www.youtube/watch?v=XN2UydzUOQU&feature=

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  99. Fletch (6,367 comments) says:

    krazykiwi, also check out this guy –

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  100. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Do you really think he has been read by mideast peacemakers?

    Although the term “peacemakers” is undefined, I wonder, who would they be? It’s hard to think of one, at least, one who is influential enough to be heard.

    Norman Finkelstein makes the most sense, in my view, but he is pretty much marginalized thanks to the Dershowitz persecution. And I am becoming less and less confident that any genuine two-state solution can be found and lay the blame for that directly at Israelis who vote in terrorists and warmongers.

    It’s difficult not to come to the unwanted conclusion that it will end badly, for all.

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  101. Leaping Jimmy (16,442 comments) says:

    Hey guess what?

    Vanilla flavoured ice-cream contains beaver’s anal glands. At least it does over in the US. I sense an opportunity for Fonterra opening up. I wonder what the TPP would have to say about that? If we tried to enter the US market, they’d probably make us replace the current anal-gland-free flavouring we use over here, with a possum’s anal gland, just so we don’t have an unfair advantage, one would imagine.

    But hey, that doesn’t matter. So long as Key can triumphantly announce a US TPP in a year or so, that’s what really counts, doesn’t it. Who cares about a few anal-glands here and there. It’s only kids who eat ice cream after all. Anal glands are probably good for them.

    http://www.metro.co.uk/tv/860150-jamie-olivers-ice-cream-revelation-leaves-letterman-open-mouthed

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  102. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    Reverend Horton Heat – Wiggle Stick.

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  103. Leaping Jimmy (16,442 comments) says:

    Luc the person Tim and I were discussing is a Jew who has extremely interesting and unique perspectives which I think you’d find expanding. I suggest if you want a flavour you listen to the 2010 interview link in my 11:31.

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  104. Don the Kiwi (1,750 comments) says:

    Bugger – the link didn’t work.

    Try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uoFq-Pzldg

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  105. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    Papists and little boys, go figure.

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  106. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    Evil Eddie – Queensland.

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  107. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Luc
    I see some people on Amazon think Clarity is the most important book since the Bible, so it must be good!

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  108. Don the Kiwi (1,750 comments) says:

    My son introduced me to Steve Vai a couple of months ago – what an amazing guitarist.

    Try this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68AoHJd84aQ&feature=ri

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  109. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Sure LJ, i skipped though before and preferred to ignore it.

    It’s bit too much for my enquiring mind to sit listening to a deluded idiot who thinks the US and Israel became great on the back of Judeo-Xtian ideology and who thinks the Ten Commandments should be hanging in courthouses!

    Where do you find these freaks? :-)

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  110. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Luc Hansen at 6.09:

    Where do you find these freaks?

    Look in your mirror, Luc.

    Why do you have to bombard us with your pro-militant Islam crap on Easter Friday?

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  111. Leaping Jimmy (16,442 comments) says:

    Luc I think your problem is that wasn’t what the interview was saying at all, in any way and if you think it was you were possibly listening to something completely different.

    I think you should really actually listen to it, lest I and everyone else who has actually listened to it think you’re a complete and utter mental.

    Meanwhile stop making stuff up about it, please. It’s also rather insulting for you not only to make stuff up about it but then to ask me a question as if what you’ve said about it is really what it was.

    Grossly insulting actually. Where the fuck do you get off doing that, Luc? What sort of fucking arsehole pretends something is like it’s not then belittles someone else on the basis of that manufactured fantasy? What sort of total fuckface wanker does shit like that?

    Don’t do it again.

    I mean it.

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  112. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    LJ

    You obviously only hear what you want to hear. I suggest you listen again.

    I mean it.

    Jack 5 – ideal day to remind people that Israel was built on the violent dispossession of an indigenous people, utilizing a distortion of their religious dogma as divine justification for an enterprise that, today, is at least bordering on genocide.

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  113. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Luc! The Jews aren’t indigenous to Israel as well?

    C’mon.

    Regarding Leaping Jimmy at 6.21:

    One of Luc’s ploys is to extend your argument then attack the extension.

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  114. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    LJ & Jack5

    Don’t waste your time with Luc.
    He is a race baiter, a liar, a hypocrite with no understanding of history.
    A self loathing critical race theorist who hates ‘whites’, Christians, Jews and anything ‘Western’, especially Americans.

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  115. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    A break from Luc’s counter-Crusades:

    Anyone hear or watch the news tonight?

    Please let us all know if you hear anything pertinent to Whale’s great North Island safari during the stag roaring season.

    I’m concerned lest any minor-party politician should piss on a tree at the fringe of the bush. Whale could easily mistake him for a stag, well … Bam! Bam!

    If such a politician gets shot this Easter it won’t look good for Whale.

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  116. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    LJ

    22 mins into the 2010 interview you linked to. You will hear exactly the words I quoted above. I wasn’t sure if it was your man or the interviewer, but it’s definitely Mr Ehrlich speaking then.

    I look forward to your apology.

    As an aside, seriously, those guys are something else!!

    And you want me to listen to 42 mins of their crap?

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  117. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Jack 5

    Of course Mizrahi Jews are indigenous to the ME. As regards the Ashkenazis, well, let’s just say, as Israel is wont to on so many matters, that it’s disputed.

    But it’s indisputable that it is hardly relevant to today’s situation, anyway.

    I’m always amazed at the attacks I come under on this topic when my position on settling the whole goddamn mess is exactly the official policy of the US!

    Go figure…

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  118. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Luc
    You won’t win on this one, the religious nutters have this topic sewn up. Roll on the third temple, eh?

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  119. Leaping Jimmy (16,442 comments) says:

    Luc is deluded. He thinks an interview I gave him says something when it doesn’t, actually. This is what he thinks it said:

    It’s bit too much for my enquiring mind to sit listening to a deluded idiot who thinks the US and Israel became great on the back of Judeo-Xtian ideology and who thinks the Ten Commandments should be hanging in courthouses!”

    This is what the interview says [after Ehrlich is asked about what else he thinks about apart from the ME]:

    One of the things that flows in is why there is this obsession against Iran, it’s very important for Americans to understand. The thing that’s really important for Americans to grasp in view of this BP oil disaster is that: what did the US and Israel have in common? They really were nations that were manifestly built under the Judeo-Christian ethic and when America was aligned with those concepts – that the Ten Commandments were hanging in the court rooms and people weren’t embarrassed about our religious heritage – the country was great.

    Unless one was an ideological fanatic of Minto calibre, how could anyone possibly misinterpret those words spoken for what Luc thinks was said? Farken d’oh Luc. I’d like an apology from you – thanks. Actually, you should apologise to all of us since your taxpayer-funded education system has clearly added no value at all to your somewhat fucked mind which means the whole lot of us have wasted a considerable amount of money on you over the years. Thanks very much, Luc.

    I’ve previously found you serious on Israel. Indeed, on Israel, to some extent I have common ground with you in terms of the human aspects if not the casual links.

    It’s not unusual to find a highly ideologically driven fanatic interpret what they want, out of things they hear – picking and choosing. The MSM do this all the time, in order to find tidbits to feed the sheeple. It’s rather disappointing however when supposedly intelligent people get sucked into doing this, as you appear to have been here Luc.

    Pearls and swine are never a good combo but I’m surprised they’ve arisen in the context of you and Israel Luc – I thought you knew more about that topic than many. Apparently not.

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  120. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Seems like Luc made a reasonable paraphrase of the comment, then.

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  121. Leaping Jimmy (16,442 comments) says:

    WTF is wrong with lefties, mm, that makes you try to re-interpret history along the lines of how you wish it had happened, rather than the way it actually happened?

    Doing such in any way is dunderheaded stupidity of the most profound proportion since it means you don’t learn anything from it because you’ve just put rose-tinted paws all over the very bits which may or may not yield valuable insights to future generations.

    What the fuck about: “doing so is fucking mental” is difficult to understand.

    So this is precisely what Luc did, probably sub-consciously because his mind is so very poisoned by constant leftist thought constructs, (shudder).

    I happen to think Judeo-Christian heritage isn’t bad, just like I happen to think colonialism had its good points as well, given all the institutions and frameworks and infrastructure that was built under it.

    I know a lot of lefties would like to think 100% of it was 100% tewwible but this is the point. THINKING THAT, ISN’T WHAT HAPPENED. I.E. IT’S NOT REPEAT NOT REPEAT NOT “HISTORY.” Now if you’re seeking facts, such as, what someone said in an interview or what English words and phrases really mean in common parlance, you use certain rules, you don’t make it up and alter it just in case someone might be offended because that’s not reality, that just fucking emotional bullshit.

    Which is what Luc was doing. I tire of this. Read the facts, FFS. End of story.

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  122. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    So…did you all make it through the day with the shops closed?

    Did the earth stop turning because you could not get a flat white?

    Nah…you all dealt with it like you should, enjoy the time off and get back into it tomorrow.

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  123. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Thanks MM

    I have no idea what LJ thinks I wrote. Very puzzling – all this fuss over a mild comment (no pun intended).

    A lot of what Ehrlich says as regards Palestinians – I had a listen while I was cooking our BBQ – I can agree with, but when it’s wrapped within his overarching thesis, it’s not company I would like to keep.

    And when someone interprets the Mavi Mamara as some kind of deliberate tactic by Obama on his way to engulfing the ME in war, well, sorry, lost me.

    Or have I misheard again, LJ? :-)

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  124. burt (8,269 comments) says:

    How was your day at church big bruv ?

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  125. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    Jesus walks into desert and up to St Peter. He says, “it’s no good Pete, Been everywhere and all I could scrounge was a few loaves and half dozen fishes.”

    Peter tells Jesus, “it’s no problem Boss, look around.”

    Jesus looks round and sees 5,000 people all eating cod in breadcrumbs.

    “See, it’s all taken care of,” Peter says.

    Jesus shouts, “but how? When I left here we had nothing to eat.”

    Peter points, “all taken care of. Judas came into a bit of money”

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  126. burt (8,269 comments) says:

    Luc

    I’m picking coming in here today and spilling your guts like you have that you would also support burning the flag at an ANZAC dawn parade?

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  127. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Sorry to burst your bubble, Burt, but too many of my family died in the two world wars to even entertain the thought. I’m not a pacifist, by the way.

    But thanks for asking so nicely.

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  128. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    burt

    You know full well that I am not religious.

    Are you suffering from shopping withdrawl?…never mind, you can get your fix tomorrow.

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  129. Leaping Jimmy (16,442 comments) says:

    Luc, layers within layers is Ehrlich, as deep truths often are.

    Trying to absorb such using superficial listening styles a’la 6 o’clock news style sometimes leads to misunderstandings with such material.

    Sorry, I’d just assumed people on this blog would be able to cope but apparently, not all could. I do apologise. I’ll try to find an “Ehrlich lite” next time, just for you.

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  130. burt (8,269 comments) says:

    big bruv

    I’ve been drinking instant coffee all fricken day… don’t start with me alright!

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  131. burt (8,269 comments) says:

    Luc

    That’s not bursting my bubble, it is however bursting the one of ‘it’s a good time to remind’ that you floated in on.

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  132. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    burt – mobil stations were open today…

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  133. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    You’ve lost me Burt?

    Are you referring to the Nakba?

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  134. Fletch (6,367 comments) says:

    Don the kiwi – Steve Vai’s finiest moment was as the devil’s guitarist in Crossroads the movie.
    FInal guitar duel –

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  135. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    His finest moment was in crossroads? lol

    Steve Vai is so good, after seeing him live i never wanted to play guitar again :P

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