The ACC recording
April 30th, 2012 at 7:52 am by David FarrarPhil Kitchin at Stuff reports:
A recording of a critical meeting between senior ACC managers and the whistleblower who exposed a massive privacy breach reveals the corporation misled its minister and the public.
The corporation has alleged that client Bronwyn Pullar threatened at the meeting to go to the media unless she was given a guaranteed two-year benefit.
It also alleged she said that she would withhold details of the breach involving private details of 6500 other clients – including sexual abuse victims – if her demands were not met.
Once details of the privacy breach were revealed by The Dominion Post, the ACC referred its extortion allegations against Ms Pullar to police.
However, a recording of a key meeting in December between Ms Pullar, her support person Michelle Boag – a senior National Party figure – and two ACC managers is at odds with the corporation’s claims that were included in a report ordered by ACC Minister Judith Collins.
The ACC was given a transcript of the meeting more than three weeks ago, but has refused to correct its report.
Ms Pullar said it was outrageous that, having been provided with the recording, the corporation was refusing to correct a “blatant lie” on a public report. …
The Dominion Post has heard the recording and had obtained an accurate transcript of it. It contradicts several key elements in the ACC report.
The transcript shows:
Neither Ms Pullar nor Ms Boag threatened to go to the media or withhold the data if Ms Pullar was not given a guaranteed two years’ compensation.
ACC’s statement that it was not given specific details of the breach is misleading. ACC was told the data was “highly sensitive information”, including names and details of 6500 claimants.
If ACC have filed a complaint with the Police based on incorrect information, then this is a serious matter.
But Ms Pullar said that the allegation was a misuse of power and “an attempt to smear Michelle Boag’s and my reputation”.
“Had I not recorded this meeting, it would have been ACC’s word against mine.”
Media lawyer Steven Price said the tape was recorded legitimately because Ms Pullar was a party to the conversation at the meeting.
Parties to a conversation cannot be guilty of illegally recording a conversation using an interception device.
I look forward to the completion of the various reports and inquiries so we the public get a better understanding of what actually has happened.
Tags: ACC, Bronwyn Pullar
April 30th, 2012 at 8:49 am
Quite so DPF; in conjunction with the Auditor-General and Privacy Commissioner inquiries, I suspect that the bosses at ACC will be getting a rather terse “please explain”, perhaps followed by a “Don’t Come Monday”.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 8:49 am
Ministries and Government departments don’t have to answer to the people.
Just bully, smear and bad-mouth anyone who dares criticise you.
Paula Benefit hath shown you the way.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:04 am
At the moment I have to say I am not comfortable that the truth is out there from either side yet.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:10 am
RRM, you’re being an arse again. I know, shouldnt be surprised, but there you go.
As Mark said, there doesnt seem to be a lot of truth about at the moment around this.
And for the record, PB did not bully, smear or bad mouth – she provided a fact base when those facts had been absent from the argument. You have an issue with facts, or just the truth? Or both perhaps?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:12 am
“Just bully, smear and bad-mouth anyone who dares criticise you”
You cant get more neutral than releasing statistics. How that amounts to bullying confuses me.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:28 am
Did you even read the news about the ACC recording this morning?
A Govt department appears to have gone to the police making totally untrue allegations against a NZ citizen.
It’s real police state stuff. “Chillingly anti-democratic”, even.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:28 am
Oh dear. Sounds like somebody at the ACC has made a career limiting move.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:46 am
Phil Kitchin, like any good, cutting-edge reporter, sometimes gets things wrong. But NOT often.
Let’s face it: ACC no longer represents the Woodhouse vision, nor does it represent the ACC envisaged by the legislation refined by the Gair Select Committee, and approved by the Parliament.
When the High Court and Court of Appeal tell ACC that “mostly” means 80% plus and ACC ignores that leaving it to claimants to litigate, then the time has come to put ACC out to pasture.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 9:54 am
The trouble with this story, damaging as it is, is that it seems very selective and focused.
Vote:Obviously released by one side to acheive their aim. And media comply to get the story.
I want to see it all out.
Rather than this series of shock – horror titbits which convert you from one side to the other in sequence.
April 30th, 2012 at 10:04 am
RRM
Vote:Indeed, I did read the news but do no see where Paula Bennet fits into the picture. That is the point that I was addressing. You may be right-on as far as ACC is concerned. I am with Mark on this one. Not fence sitting – if they lied then they are out but I would rather getg more facts first.
April 30th, 2012 at 10:06 am
One presumes there was a) only ONE meeting or communication in respect of the allegations against Boag/Pullar with ACC,
Vote:b) that this transcript and tape records all of that one occasion (remember it has been provided in full or part by one of the vested parties), and c) that there were no followup phone conversations or visits by Boag or Pullar with ACC where the alleged threats were made either directly or inferentially.
April 30th, 2012 at 10:12 am
The question that strikes me is: Why now?
Why were the transcript and the tape not released last month when the allegations were first made?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 10:13 am
I’d like to know at what point the Minister will take responsibility for the Department she is supposed to be running.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 10:15 am
iMP — good points but in the article it says that Pullar told the ACC early on that she would record all meetings and phone calls. So I presume Kitchin has checked that there is nothing else in other conversations that might “upset” his story.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 10:19 am
Good point Metcalph
Vote:Yep lets see it all in the light of day.
Anything illegal needs to be prosecuted and seen to be.
April 30th, 2012 at 10:44 am
metcalph (787) Says:
April 30th, 2012 at 10:12 am
” …..The question that strikes me is: Why now?…….”
Thats to let the apparent morons at ACC dig a REALLY deep hole for themselves……………….
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 10:51 am
Nookin said:
I agree Nookin. I have an anonymous commenter over at my place telling me that Collins is useless because she has allowed ACC to lie to her. I would argue that she is most unlikely to take any action until the various inquiries have been completed; to do so would be premature IMHO. There will be plenty of time for the “please explains” when inquiries have been completed. But this may also strengthen her defamation case against Messrs Mallard and Little, and against RNZ. If ACC is shown to have blatantly lied to its Minister, it’s not to much of a stretch that someone at ACC leaked private information as well.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:05 am
I’d like to know at what point the Minister will take responsibility for the Department she is supposed to be running.
Would you like her to take action based on accusation or evidence?
Until last night there didn’t seem to be much evidence, now that there is maybe we will see some action. Maybe not by 10:13am however – at least allow some time for the minister to get her head around this latest development. We don’t know for certain if it is the smoking gun against ACC, or a re-enactment of Dan Rather’s George W expose.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:07 am
Thats to let the apparent morons at ACC dig a REALLY deep hole for themselves……………….
I have a hard time believing that Pullar or Boag could be so strategic in their leaking nor can I see any reason why they would have waited. When the shit-throwing becomes public, the best strategy is to start revealing as much favourable evidence on your behalf as soon as possible. Yet when the ACC claim was made, Pullar just sat on the recording for at least a month? The claim was already out there. All she had to do was deny it and release her transcript putting further heat on ACC – ie not only do they leak like a sieve but they also lie about it afterwards.
But the very act of waiting and the lack of a good reason for the delay just smells.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:23 am
> Why were the transcript and the tape not released last month when the allegations were first made?
Maybe Boag/Pullar have given ACC an opportunity to reflect on their press releases and their complaint to police. ACC are looking increasingly dysfunctional, not to mention nasty and mean spirited.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:25 am
> The claim was already out there. All she had to do was deny it ..
But she did deny it. As did Boag. What smells is the fact that ACC didn’t speak with Pullar before potentially defaming her.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:39 am
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6623300/Pullar-ACC-complaint-to-police-false
You can see that on March 23 it was reported that ACC were telling porkies and had laid a false complaint re Pullar with police. Onw wonders if and when they’ll withdraw that complaint.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:52 am
metcalph –
This whole episode has been full of delays – sometimes for months. Pullar didnt do anything about the email (with the 6500 contacts) sent to her for months – and by that I mean she didnt go public for months after she got it.
She sent an email message to the minister – and it had some malware attached so she could see who it went to and who opened and how many times. Ill bet she knows who leaked it (if the email was sent as an email to an outside source then she will surely know who sent it…………and ifso shes happily sitting on that info …… waiting for the enquiry to try find out). You have to have a plan to follow thru with that sort of thing – and lots of patience.
Although I think shes a bit phsycotic about the whole matter – one thing for sure is that she probably has a plan to discredit ACC as mich as possible – and how better to set them up than give them time to tell porkies (which is what seems to be the case)
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 11:54 am
Heads need to roll from Chairman down. Totally disfunctional . No customer attitude. Said it all before.
Vote:Collins needs to boot arse.
April 30th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
Barry said:
She sent an email message to the minister – and it had some malware attached so she could see who it went to and who opened and how many times
—————
It wasn’t malware. The email contained an image file that was linked from an external server. Every time the email was viewed, the email client downloaded the image file and the external server recorded the time and IP address of the machine that was used to view the email.
It’s a common technique for tracking emails. Most modern email clients now ask if you want to download linked content instead of downloading it automatically.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:27 pm
Ross69
If Pullar’s mere denial is sufficient to show that the ACC are complete liars then why was the transcript released only now? And if it wasn’t sufficient then why sit on the transcript?
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:28 pm
I agree with other who say “why now?”
It certainly a diversion from ole Banksie.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
Pullar didnt do anything about the email (with the 6500 contacts) sent to her for months – and by that I mean she didnt go public for months after she got it.
She went on a honeymoon which is a large part of the delay right there. And she went public after ACC stonewalled her demands or agreement (depending on who you listen to). The suggestion that Pullar is acting with a master plan is simply poor conspiracy theorizing.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
> why was the transcript released only now?
Pullar possibly feels that ACC has had plenty of time to drop their complaint to police and to apologise to her for their (potentially) defamatory comments. Since ACC don’t appear to intend to do either, Pullar has called their bluff.
The more important question is why ACC apparently didn’t speak with Pullar before complaining to police.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
A state run monopoly making shit up to protect it’s own best interests – who would have seen that coming !
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 1:16 pm
Pullar possibly feels that ACC has had plenty of time to drop their complaint to police and to apologise to her for their (potentially) defamatory comments. Since ACC don’t appear to intend to do either, Pullar has called their bluff.
As an explanation for the delay, that is quite weak.
The more important question is why ACC apparently didn’t speak with Pullar before complaining to police.
Why should they? There is no duty to consult with an alleged perpetrator before complaining about them to the police.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
What is weak is sticking to a line even when it’s been shown to be false. That seems to be ACC’s position.
I imagine ACC will be doing a lot of talking with Pullar in the months ahead, and I also imagine ACC will wish it had engaged with Pullar earlier.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 2:05 pm
The ACC line hasn’t been shown to be false. There are several doubts about the recent transcript that have yet to be addressed.
And I see you have no answer for the question why on earth should ACC have talked with Pullar before complaining to the police.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
@mpledger 12:28 pm
Indeed. Pullar’s advocate and Banks’ 2010 campaign manager are one and the same person – Michelle Boag.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
> I see you have no answer for the question why on earth should ACC have talked with Pullar before complaining to the police
You didn’t read my last message very carefully. When ACC publicly apologise to Pullar and compensate her for their disgraceful conduct, they will wish they had talked to her earlier. Talking to her might have saved ACC a lot of time and money.
Vote:April 30th, 2012 at 10:12 pm
The fact still remains that ACC have such lousy systems that this could happen at all. That is a responsibility of management. A responsibility they seem to give no regard to. i.e. the CEO upwards. There seems to be no accepting of their poor management which indicates that actually they really don’t give a toss.Add to that the attitude that permeates the system that seems to encourage bullying of claiments and denying proper consultation and to the extent of denying claims without people having to go to court to get proper recognition. Poor quality customer attitudes and service. Hallmarks of a poor quaility organization.
Vote:All adds up to poor Governance.
Who would you say is responsible for Governance?
May 1st, 2012 at 9:16 am
Pullar has refused to the release the complete tape recording. I wonder, will the media demand it be released with the same vigour it demanded John Key release the teatop tape?
Vote:May 1st, 2012 at 9:05 pm
Where is the MSM coverage of Ms Boag’s latest comments, or has she made none?
Vote:No Media hounding her or associates, like on Waiheke?
Should I shut up Michele?