A great own goal
May 19th, 2012 at 10:09 am by David FarrarA wonderful own goal at The Standard. Zetetic blogged on Peter Dunne:
He lashed out that those who pointed out he’s voting for asset sales he never told his electorate he would support.
Now this is a lie the left keep repeating. And watch it bite them hard.
Pete George pointed out this was a lie and Eddie ranted:
three choices. Present evidence Dunne explicitly said he would support the partial sale of the energy companies and air nz, withdraw your comment, or face a three month ban.
So Mr George gets to work.
First he brings up this quote from Zetetic him or herself:
and National is on a razor edge, with a 2 seat majority but the rest of Parliament opposing asset sales if ACT and Dunne lose, or on Dunne.
Absolutely proving Zeletic is lying about Dunne. He warned people before the election that a vote for Dunne was a vote for asset sales, and then afterwards he claims no one knew a vote for Dunne was a vote for asset sales. I think we now understand why he or she does not dare to post under their own name. They would be unemployable.
A second quote is found, this time from Eddie before the election:
This is high stakes stuff. If ACT goes and Dunne loses too, as looks likely, National will be bereft of natural allies. And National’s support is tracking down to the point where it can’t govern alone. The Banks endorsement should only make that more likely.
What happens in this scenario? There would be no parties that would support its asset sales policy through Parliament, except perhaps the Maori Party
So Eddie is also exposed as a liar. Remember this if anyone from the left ever claims Peter Dunne’s position was unknown – the left were actively campaigning against him on the basis they knew he had said he would vote for partial asset sales proposed by National.
Eddie, also very glad he does not use his full name or possibly even his real name, doesn’t give up and basically says that what he said is not important, but that he will ban Pete George for three months if he doesn’t come up with something directly from Dunne.
Then the final knock out blow as Pete George quotes from a live chat on Stuff:
The Dominion Post:
To Peter Dunne, from Joe Brown: Will you say no to all state asset sales like Labour and Charles Chauvel have this year?Dunne Peter:
In principle, UnitedFuture does not advocate selling state assets, but in the event National putst up its mixed ownership model for the electricity companies and Air New Zealand we would be prepared to support that, provided the maximum was 49%, with a cap of 15% on any indivudual’s holdings. We would never support the sale of Kiwibank, Radio New Zealand or control of water assets.
Game, set and match to Pete George.
A huge thanks to The Standard. The left have got away with lying about Dunne for months on end now. Thanks to this thread they started, we now have nice documented proof that they have been lying.
Labour with their proxies in “People’s Power Ohariu” have an Operation Ohariu next weekend to try and build opposition to asset sales. I wonder how many of them will also spread lies about Dunne’s position?
I’d point out in Ohariu National got many mroe party votes than Labour and Greens combined, and that Dunne and Shanks (both known to vote for the mixed ownership model) got almost 20,000 electorate votes between them and Chauvel got 13,000 and Hughes 2,000 so not even close.
May 19th, 2012 at 10:12 am
Outstanding work by Pete George, and many thanks to Kiwiblog for broadcasting PG’s work.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 10:15 am
I am somewhere to the left of Karl Marx
The hateful vitriol that fills The Standard quite honestly makes me worry for the future of socialist thought.
It’s hate, envy, hate, envy. It’s like we haven’t gone any further than the Russian peasantry in 1917.
There’s not real collectivist thought. They’re just as individualist as you rightists.
(I know this is vaguely off topic, but it mentions the Standard, and I needed to rant and get it off my chest. And sigh heavily)
Asset sales are a horrific policy. NZers voted John Key in. That’s democracy. We on the left fucked up, didn’t win, we have to deal with it.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 10:25 am
The idea of a 3 month ban from The Standard is quite funny if you think about it.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 10:28 am
Furthermore, I think Peter Dunne’s position is quite similar to that of most of your ordinary middle kiwi voters. Mr. Dunne should not concern himself (and I’m sure he doesn’t) with “Peoples’ Power Ohariu” as I expect approximately zero of them voted for him (if any of them even live in Ohariu at all).
Nobody (except maybe a few ACTivists & Libertarianz) really wants to sell any of the state’s assets, but doing nothing is not an option – it’s that or raise taxes. The difference being that raising taxes slows down the economy, whilst floating these shares can have a stimulating effect, and improve the range of shares on the NZX.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 10:28 am
elscorcho – I made a new year’s resolution not to go to the Standard this year – the Hate and envy and just downright negativity is not missed at all. Sometimes people drag stuff to other blogs like the above and remind me of my good decision.
Vote:The above from Pete George just highlights the lying and utter hypocrisy that abounds there and from the current left in general.
May 19th, 2012 at 10:29 am
I actually want to hear your defence of ACT’s biggest donor, business man Louis Crimp, who gave the party $125,000 because he wanted to see the “Maoris” put in their place.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10806938
[DPF: You seem to have a reading problem, as I blogged on Crimp this morning]
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 10:39 am
I’m constantly staggered at just how bold the left is in re-writing *very* recent history.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 10:39 am
So PG got three month ban from the sub. Bad luck Pete, a life time ban is first prize when one speaks about that cesspit.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 10:40 am
The whole asset sales campaign is a great example of how Liarbore truly in fact has always worked. It illustrates every single tactic and strategy they use all the time, on just about every issue. This happened all the time, during Hulun’s reign. Why the hell the Nats don’t bother to point this out to the electorate by throwing Liarbore’s tactics straight back at them, all the time, until they stop doing it, I have no idea. For that is the only way to stop them and its the obvious thing to do.
Their goal is to implant a falsehood in people’s minds and they do this using propaganda tactics.
First, determine the central meme. It has to be simple. A meme is something that is not true, but you pretend it is. In this case, their meme is: there is no mandate.
Second, in everything you say and do in relation to the meme, you must behave as if it already exists and has always existed as a self-evident matter of simple observable fact. This is critical because remember, in reality, in the subject’s mind, it doesn’t exist and what you have to do is make the subject believe that actually, the meme always did exist, it’s just that they weren’t consciously aware of it until that nice Liarbore party started pointing to it and then you realised, oh of course, right.
And that’s the basic principle of what they do. And by going round the country for months and years on end talking about the same thing and now and again organising meetings etc etc gradually more and more of the poor susceptible public become convinced that yes, Liarbore is quite right, there was never any mandate, that’s quite true.
Of course the wretched dispicable nature of these tactics doesn’t worry Liarbore one little bit. The fact they are lying makes absolutely no difference to them. Disgusting creatures aren’t they.
I just wish the 90% of people to whom politics is the first veil which they never ever penetrate would just wake their stupid little brains up and smell the fucking roses, once in awhile. It’s just so obvious to those 10% of us who have penetrated the first veil and so very, very tragic, for this is precisely how wars are started and how societies are engineered into certain behaviours such as us tolerating the fact our education systems have become extremely dumbed down by comparison to yesteryear, our family values have become significantly weakened compared to yesteryear, etc. All of which leads to social and individual traits such as lack of love for self and others, we are full of fear and envy and pride and lust, etc etc etc etc etc etc.
And the left do nothing but promote this 24/7/365. Conservatives don’t, but they stand aside and tolerate it, which is why our societies have crumbled over the decades. You tell the last time a conservative really stood for family values. They get laughed out of court by the media and the useful idiots who simply turn back to their bread and circuses. In my view conservatives who stand aside and say nothing while this bullshit is being flung at the helpless child-like 90% are just as guilty as those who do the throwing.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 10:44 am
So did Pete get banned anyway?
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 10:46 am
In my view conservatives who stand aside and say nothing while this bullshit is being flung at the helpless child-like 90% are just as guilty as those who do the throwing.
Well, look at S59. The people spoke, and loudly.
But because the tiny minority who supported the law had the media microphone, John Key wasn’t prepared to back the people.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 10:52 am
dime: not at present, but suggest we start a book on the response.
a) they’ll lie and say he hasn’t met the standard of proof they set
Vote:b) they’ll change the level of proof
c) they’ll accuse him of some other breach of the rules
d) they’ll delete the thread
e) they’ll write another post lashing out at DPF providing some sort of bizarre reinterpretation of the facts to try and paint DPF as crazy or something
May 19th, 2012 at 10:56 am
Only at The Standard do you get banned or threatened with banning for the heinous crime of telling the truth. Is it any wonder that the Left is so upset when their lies get exposed?
http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/threatened-for-telling-truth.html
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 10:57 am
@ Scrubone – just in case of “d”, a full set of screenshots has been taken
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 10:58 am
You miss the point – it is OK for the left to lie – after all the ends justify the means (pity the end is a pipedream).
Now, if the centre-left (National) were to lie, clearly that would be against the interests of the common people, and must be shouted from the roof tops otherwise known as TV One, NZ Horrid, TV 3, Radio Left Wing, etc.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 10:59 am
Reading through the comments there it does appear that Eddie has backed down as the 8:17 comment from Pete includes:
“Pete, congrats on tracking down the one time Dunne’s strategy slipped and he admitted he would support National’s asset sales. It took you along time and no-one else had been able to find such a quote. So, congratulations, you’ve proved that Dunne accidentally told the truth once in a forum that no-one noticed. Ban rescinded. Eddie”
While Eddie insinuates Dunn mislead the public its to good that he acknowledges that there has been no lie on Dunn’s part or inconsistency with his position. Like most left wing lunatics I am sure that rescinding the ban would have been extremely difficult for Eddie.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:03 am
There have been lies told on a left wing blog?
Well, this is news.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:04 am
I recently got a 2 week ban from the Standard.
Vote:Can’t remember what for though – probably reminded them of some misdemeanour.
Do I get a medal ?
May 19th, 2012 at 11:07 am
Which “Eddie” are we talking about though. Is it Conor “Eddie”, Jenny “Eddie”, or might it even have been, as some suspect Trevor “Eddie”?
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:13 am
Good for PG, he may be a terrible old wowser and fence-sitter, but the lad done well on this one.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:15 am
This is just one repeated lie exposed, but amongst a bigger lie. Who is “Zetetic” and “Eddie”? Could they as easily be called Union and Labour?
And will David Shearer live up to his promise? Will he address Dishonest Politics?
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:21 am
Do you really think the thread will stay intact as it is now. This is the standard… these are lefties…. quietly over the next while the posts will be deleted and the content re-written to make sure there is nothing to see …..
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:23 am
I dont go to The StunnedTard, so havent read the thread. But let me guess; when it would have been easy for eddie and zetetic to simply admit they were wrong when they said those things back before the election, they instead refuse to even address the possibility. They claim those previous statements are irrelevant, and refuse to discuss them further. The actual words “I was wrong” or anything like it never appear.
When they have a choice between then wrong, or now wrong, they still choose never wrong.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:26 am
Kimble
Eddie never backs down when you prove him wrong. He normally just deletes your comments and bans you. It’s the socialist way… control the information…. control the people…..
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:28 am
he may be a terrible old wowser and fence-sitter
That is another common lie, although in this case more likely a misreading. Yeah, all wowsers are actively campaign against violance and abuse. Terrible.
I’ve been prepared to go where others can’t be bothered going. I’ve probably spoken up and stood up to things here as much as anyone, and more than most who are still moaning at the same things, as they were when I first started here three years ago.
Some use blogs as a pastime and for entertainment, that’s fine, there choice.
But I’d suggest that I’m one of the few here – and at The Standard – on an open honest (mostly) positive mission. A very determined mission.
I often get accused of fence sitting – they accuse me of that at TS too. Some people who don’t like the fence between their and opponent ideological fantasies being pulled down, so they resort to name calling and labelling.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:28 am
Well done Pete.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:31 am
Pete George: I for one usually find your contribution valuable, with common sense applied – even if I don’t agree with you.
Good on you for being willing to discuss with people on both sides.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:35 am
Eddie has rescinded the ban.
That’s a crap retraction Eddie.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:36 am
I loved these comments:
We know, although you’ve never explicitly stated what about your beliefs is to the left of Karl, so I’ve always guessed Libertarian Socialism with none of that nasty vanguard-party-dictatorship-of-the-proletariat stuff, although that is more Lenin. Still, Karl left the space.
Heh, heh, heh. That’s because in terms of building anything that works there is no socialist future, just more of the same stuff that’s degenerated to totalitarianism every time.
However, you’ve still got Gramsci and company. They’re doing quite well in terms of dissolving Western societies down to ant-heaps: perhaps the revolution will “build” on that.
Lightbulb time perhaps?
Although it would be more accurate to say that you have not moved on from the hatred that elites like Lenin and Trotsky had for other elites – with the poor, bloody peasants crushed in between. They never held anywhere near as much hatred for the Kulaks as your hero’s did, mainly because they aspired to be like them, until they saw them getting dispossessed and then shot.
Stick with Gramsci. His ideas are still working quite well: pity they’re all about destruction – but hey, gotta break a few eggs, etc.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:43 am
Translation: I’m a lefty Labour supporter and we never admit we are wrong !
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:43 am
…like a bug fush. I thought the lure was maybe too obvious to go for, but you came back for it after all! Please re-read with with the framing “friendly mickey-taking” in mind.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:44 am
Wow! The left is accusing a leftwing politician (Peter Done too much interference) who’s an ardent favor of big government.
And Pete George is a rightwinger? Jesus Christ!!!
Pete George’s views fit in well there with bloggers at The Standards. There was comment by PG on Kiwiblog in the last week or two ago, saying that he will consider voting for the Greens. I can’t remember the context of his post, but obviously PG is a leftwinger.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 12:00 pm
This is ridiculous, Peter Dunne was clearly in favour of mixed ownership model before the election. I remember him saying several times that he would vote for it with the caveats listed above. I know because UF was my party of choice at the last election. I was fully prepared to give him my vote knowing it would mean asset sales. I felt the same as him about it, not something I want to see happen but if it has to be done make sure it’s done right, limited to what National has already stated will be for sale and prevented from going to one party. I even recall hearing a rare Peter Dunne radio ad in which he stated exacty that!
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
Peter Dunne on Asset sales pre-election:
Vote:
May 19th, 2012 at 12:12 pm
So let’s chunk this down a bit.
Pete is threatened with a three month ban because he is not, allegedly, truthful. Eddie and the Zed guy adamantly say that Dunne did not support assets sales. Pete was, however, telling the truth. Eddie and the Zed guy were not. So, is the three month ban threatened because he was being untruthful, in which case Eddie and the Zed guy must be banned, or was it threatened because it is unacceptable to expose the Standard’s propaganda and any threats must be suppressed?
Is there any correlation between this behaviour and Andrew Little’s assumption that if you cannot do it civilly the appropriate recourse is to thuggery? I guess the 9 years of labour give us a clue to that.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
Taken from the United Future website, 2010.
UnitedFuture leader Peter Dunne is warning the Government to be careful about any potential sale of State assets.
He said selling State assets for no more than ideological reasons would rightly arouse strong and widespread public opposition.
“Simply selling assets on the vague premise that they would be better off in the private sector is not a good enough argument, but equally Kiwis are no longer in Labour’s camp of ‘shock, horror, hysterics’ at the very idea of some degree of asset sales.
“The vast majority of New Zealanders certainly think privatisation went too far in the past, but they may now be more open to a proper discussion on some degree of private ownership – New Zealand ownership – of some assets,” Mr Dunne said.
“There is an argument that the capital base of some state-owned businesses needs to be expanded to enable them to remain competitive and to grow, and that the State is not in a position to fund this expansion.
“I think New Zealanders are open to that argument – but they will not tolerate open slather, and National needs to understand that.
“If the Government wants to revisit its existing policy, it will need to be very specific about its plans, including the scope for options short of privatisation such as publicly listed debentures, or limited share floats to raise the capital required,” he said.
Mr Dunne said he detects no public enthusiasm for the sale of assets like Kiwibank, particularly if this would see their ownership transferred overseas.
“I think there could well be more public support for ‘Mum and Dad’ type investment arrangements, provided the case was made well in advance and there were built-in safeguards to ensure majority New Zealand ownership would be retained.
“Those safeguards could include restricting the number of shares institutions might hold, and limiting the sale of shares to New Zealand-owned institutions
“This would stop a long way short of privatisation as we have known it in the past,” Mr Dunne said.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 12:18 pm
Some of the behaviour at The Standard is truly revolting. I can’t tell if they are trolls or really believe their own bullshit. Like Pete some may accuse me of being a “fence sitter” but nonetheless I know a bullshit argument when I see it and at the standard it abounds
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 12:45 pm
Tom Hunter said:
“Heh, heh, heh. That’s because in terms of building anything that works there is no socialist future, just more of the same stuff that’s degenerated to totalitarianism every time.”
- And that’s sad. When you think about it, socialist/collectivism has a wonderful narrative: Together we are going to build a better tomorrow.
It’s not about individuals, it’s about the greater good. There will be sacrifices. Some liberals will not get what they want. We may have to destroy some heritage buildings to build railways etc.
But it’s about that goal, that wonderful, gleaming future. One step at a time.
I honestly don’t see that simple thought coming through in today’s left
The Greens are far too focused on individual rights (weed and other hippie causes)
Labour is just National-Lite
Until Shearer/Cunliffe comes out and says “Labour is the party of altruism. We are going to build a better New Zealand. Some groups will suffer, but the vast majority will do better.”
Interestingly I think Key’s recent increase in prescription charges to pay for cancer treatments was the best socialist policy we’ve had for a bit. Unfortunately the rest of his portfolio is so extreme.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 12:46 pm
I commented yesterday on WO that this type of behaviour is a psychological defence mechanism called psychological projection or projection bias. When people deny their own thoughts or emotions or behaviours, they will often ascribe them to the outside world. It’s a process of imagining or projecting the belief that others are to blame for self-failure, short-comings or weaknesses.
This projective defence mechanism has become a characteristic of the political left since the beginning of the Helengrad Era.
Chicken Little’s characterisation of process servers as “leather jacket wearing thuggish guys” is completely consistent with the theory that the individual “projects” something of himself or herself into everything he or she does. As WO commented: “Leather jacket-wearing thuggish guys? Yep sounds like a union boss on the picket line to me.”
You see it happening consistently with Trevor Mallard, who is quick to label as liars people who have different views to his own, when his own adherence to the truth is wholly situational.
The team at Thestrandard is no different. To borrow from Chicken Little, they’re “leather jacker wearing thuggish” people who suppress and subvert the truth whenever it differs from their polemic. They, Mallard, and Chicken Little are amongst the many reasons why Labour must never be allowed to return to power.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 12:50 pm
Falafulu Fisi: Pete George’s views fit in well there with bloggers at The Standards.
Very funny, I presume thaty’s an attempt at a joke. It doesn’t take a science degree to see how that fails to meet any standard of proof. Do you spend more time at True Blue than The Standard?
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
joe bloggs – you could be right. Like the trolls who try to diss a comment by calling you a troll (I just got another troll response at The Standard). Mickysavage is a classic, he often calls me a troll, adding nothing but attempted disruption to a thread.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 1:03 pm
Pete I sometimes wonder if you would have to pay butch women to spank you if you didn’t spend all that time getting vomited on by those daddy-issues-and-envy-sauce folks that live in those echoechambers of hate like The Standard.
Sometimes I feel a bit guilty that I pulled you into the United Future tweedfest having only read your posts, but I did so because you are the sort of guy New Zealand needs crashing the political left-right puppetshow and media hysteria, and I still think United Future is a party with mostly sensible policies and the potential to be a voice for Generation X and people in regions like the East Coast and Otago who don’t want to be managed on puppet strings by party hacks.
You never pretend to be the entire answer, you value truth, have a good moral compass, good practical experience, you’re not bitchy and in person you’re a really nice family man.
Keep jabbing, they’re getting tired and their eyes are almost closed. Just make sure you don’t cop any of those haymakers on the chin.
Nice post Leaping Jimmy
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
joe bloggs
Bang on. It’s also very evident in Peters.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
United Future’s position on asset sales (TV advert), in the lead up to the election.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Ru_miEx-c
Relevant part starts at 1min 30 sec in.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 1:27 pm
Pete George
Good effort !
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Ugh. Anyone, including any right wing bloggers, who wastes their time on The Standard obviously have no jobs/nothing better to do with their retirement.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Eddie comes back for more: http://thestandard.org.nz/dunne-angry/comment-page-1/#comment-473408
He doesn’t seem to be a happy sort of chap/chappess, maybe that’s another joe bloggs example of ANGRY people accusing Dunne of being angry.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Pete,
When you get Lynn the “sysop” (read twisted old control freak nerd) with a girls name so het up he try’s to hack your PC and actually codes to pick up your phraseology you know you’ve beaten them.
Keep up the good work and you’ll get there soon!
*Hi Lynn, Eddie et al!!!!!!!*
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
[DPF: You seem to have a reading problem, as I blogged on Crimp this morning]
Don’t get rude, it was well after I posted that comment. 11am compared with my 10.29. But thank you for doing so.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 8:53 pm
Demanding a blogger deal with your issue on a completely different, unrelated post is poor form.
Vote:May 19th, 2012 at 11:33 pm
Why didnt they just check his website? Says quite clearly there he’ll support asset sales with some limits.
http://www.unitedfuture.org.nz/asset-sales-1/
Vote:May 20th, 2012 at 5:15 am
lesterpk – that and many other things have been pointed out to them, numerous times. Which makes it look like they are not worried about facts. They seem to have other motives. More on this today.
Vote: