In bed with the Conservatives

May 11th, 2012 at 11:56 am by David Farrar

My column in the NZ Herald is on the potential coalition partners for National in 2014, with most focus on the Conservatives:

But then came Craig’s comments on National’s plans to provide free contraceptives to women on a benefit. He said young New Zealand women were the most promiscuous in the world and that a monogamous 70 year old woman shouldn’t pay for a young woman to sleep around.

Mr Craig’s effective labelling of young New Zealand women as sluts was bad enough, but the lack of any recognition that it takes two to tango, and no condemnation of young promiscuous men outraged women (and men) from across the political spectrum. Twitter, as usual, was a source of equal mixtures of outrage and humour as one man tweeted they he for one “welcomes our new promiscuous women overlords”.

John Key himself came out and dissed the comments by Mr Craig. The next day he declared he was not opposed to gay marriage – something we can assume the is vehemently against. So even if the Conservatives can make it into Parliament, any relationship with National is likely to be rather stressful.

In summary there are not a lot of good options for National in terms of post 2014 partners, just a variety of “less bad” options. 

Sigh!

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60 Responses to “In bed with the Conservatives”

  1. orewa1 (428 comments) says:

    As Minister of Tourism, Key should be delighted with Craig giving publicity to this.

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  2. Jimmy (16 comments) says:

    Actually Colin Craig did come out and talk about irresponsible males who are not taking the responsibility they should. Typically, the media neglected this and focussed on the most sensational soundbites.

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  3. David Garrett (6,731 comments) says:

    Shame on you DPF…you very well know that the media – and you – were quite selective about what they quoted ….and the fact that the PM himself felt it necessary to come out and slap down Mr Craig speaks volumes…as you also well know…

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  4. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    United Future is almost the ideal coalition partner. Peter Dunne is a very competent Minister, and United Future is always reasonable over affordability of promises and not being seen to be the tail that wags the dog. Both Helen Clark and John Key have found United Future a good party to deal with. The one time they went a bit off the rails was after their merger with the former Christian Democrats.

    There is one party option not mentioned in the column – United Future has a sound record and a sound framework. There’s a huge opportunity for a fresh injection of talent, with clear leadership opportunities (more likely sooner than later this decade).

    Reinventing the wheel isn’t necessary, all it needs is a transition to a new engine, driver and passengers.

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  5. immigant (950 comments) says:

    I don’t see why everyone is so reluctant to give the Conservatives a chance. NZers have been known to vote in a lot of other batshit crazy parties (Greens, NZ First), but are afraid of a faction that may add some stability and sanity to parliament. At least no one can accuse the conservatives of being self serving, at least not yet.

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  6. Alan Wilkinson (1,848 comments) says:

    Key needs to educate the electorate. Then he will have a proper choice of partners and may not even need any.

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  7. David Garrett (6,731 comments) says:

    Alan W: How much better than 48% of the vote do you think they can do? And they have a majority of how many??

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  8. EverlastingFire (291 comments) says:

    There was a study released a few months ago that did label NZ women as the most promiscuous, so Colin Craig does have something to go on there.

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  9. KevinH (1,151 comments) says:

    @Pete George
    United Future is a reliable coalition partner for the centre right however UF is currently a one man band with no foreseeable growth in parliamentary representation. Polls indicate UF support is below 1% and without the electorate of Ohariu and Peter Dunne the party would be finished , i.e. Jim Anderton’s Progressive Party. National will have to keep it’s options open as a result of that.
    With regard to Colin Graig, the Conservative Party will struggle to garner support following on from the offensive comments concerning female promiscuity made by Colin Graig this week. Interestingly Kiwiblog covered off the same report:
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2005/11/2005_durex_global_sex_survey.html
    Kiwiblogs findings were different to those of Colin Graig who made the fatal mistake of quoting from a tongue and cheek survey usually published in pornographic men’s magazines for the titillation of the readers. These “reports” are unscientific and are more marketing spin than fact.

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  10. Redbaiter (8,001 comments) says:

    “In summary there are not a lot of good options for National in terms of post 2014 partners, just a variety of “less bad” options. ”

    Well that’s what happens when you take a Conservative Party like National so far to the left. Eventually you run out of options, and when the National Party is dead and gone it will be recognised that it was an influx of crosswired liberals and separatists like John Key who destroyed it.

    People who should never have been in the party in the first place and whose true ideological home is the Labour Party.

    We need a NZ Tea Party to clean the left wing trash out of National.

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  11. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    EverlastingFire – Yes, I read reports of the same study. The words of conservatives, even if citing published studies, are commonly dismissed. This is particularly true for anything that smells even slightly of social conservatism.

    DPF – I think you displayed a bit of unusual nastiness in your column…. “Mr Craig’s effective labelling of young New Zealand women as sluts was bad enough, but the lack of any recognition that it takes two to tango, and no condemnation of young promiscuous men outraged women (and men) from across the political spectrum.”… being the low point.

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  12. RRM (9,638 comments) says:

    ^^^Nastiness?? How? DPF pointed out the reality.

    And he’s a sensible guy, Key.

    Like most NZers, he knows a lunatic political idealogue when he sees one…

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  13. tvb (4,246 comments) says:

    There is room for a moral conservative party and it does have the potential to take votes from labour especially if grant Robinson becomes leader. Act could not grow the centre right vote and only took votes from national.

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  14. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    @KevinH – UF has also been a reliable coalition partner for the centre left. Peter Dunne is one of the instigators of more pragmatic, less idealistic politics in New Zealand.

    Polls at the moment don’t mean anything. Looking back is pointless, it’s far more important to lok at realistic possibilities. What parties (including UF) can put together by the middle of 2014 is what matters.

    Don Brash managed to take over and wreck a party in six months. A sensible addition of new talent into a stable established party is an opportunity that seems obvious to me – if there’s anyone with the ambition and drive to make it happen.

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  15. Redbaiter (8,001 comments) says:

    ” DPF – I think you displayed a bit of unusual nastiness in your column….”

    Damn right and its not the first time. Like John Key, Farrar has nothing but contempt for the Conservatives and that being the case he really has no business being in a party that has Conservatism as one of its founding principles.

    Smearing with untruth too is just another left wing tactic.

    The National Party under today’s “Progressive” leadership, has betrayed NZ and betrayed those who founded it and it does not deserve your vote.

    (You just need to look at who is supporting Farrar in this (RRM for example) to understand how far left the National Party has travelled)

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  16. Yvette (2,743 comments) says:

    John Key himself came out … Unfortunate phrase in this context – non?

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  17. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    At least it isn’t taking long to confirm the Conservative (or at least Craig) leanings.

    Legalising gay marriage ‘social engineering’ – Craig

    Craig said his Conservative Party – formed four months before last year’s election – is opposed to gay marriage. He accused Key of “politically correct posturing.”

    And he demanded the Government stay “out of the bedrooms of the country.”

    “The marriage institution being a relationship between a man and a woman predates government. It is not the job of government to start re-defining marriage.

    “There is nothing preventing gay people having meaningful relationships. We have provision for civil unions already.

    “New Zealand has had enough social engineering; it’s time to bring government back to core services.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6904721/Legalising-gay-marriage-social-engineering-Craig

    Painting himself into a minority corner.

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  18. kowtow (7,925 comments) says:

    Aotearoans don’t like the truth (when a fundie speaks it) So called vulnerable minorities are then trotted out to be shown to have had their feelings hurt,diddums.

    Nzers are or have among the worst statistics in the developed world for;
    Coldest houses,
    Worst mines
    Most tattoed
    Most dope smoking
    Highest youth mortality
    Highest obesity
    Child murder and abuse

    But CC says there’s a bunch of slags out there and he has a problem?

    I reckon there’s bigger fish to fry. Is there an agenda to smear this guy by the social liberals? I’d say there is.

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  19. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    RRM – Craig didn’t label anyone ‘sluts’. We quoted from a study. Now you can question the veracity of that study, but for DPF to say he’s labeling (presumably all) young kiwi women is nonsense. And as Jimmy pointed out at 12:07, there was a balancing comment about promiscuous men, the MSM (and this includes DPF as he was writing a MSM column) conveniently failed to report that.

    kowtow – Agreed. There’s quite a campaign under way. CC needs some good media/policy support

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  20. s.russell (1,580 comments) says:

    Of course, National would love to have a tame, sensible coalition partner with policies that are the same as it’s own. But why would anyone vote for it? Such a party would just take votes from National for no net gain.

    So, what National needs is actually a party that it disagrees with – but which disagrees with Labour even more. Ergo, the Conservatives.

    As Petets has proved, the fact that 90% of NZ thinks you are nuts does not stop you winning seats. And if Craig can do that, it will be by winning over people who do NOT like National.

    It would be nice if National could get 50% on its own, but if not Craig is its best chance of survival in power.

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  21. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Sorry kowtow, I guess the media just aren’t reporting Colin’s excellent ideas for heating houses, improving mine safety, banning tattoos, eliminating marijuana, making kids live, helping us lose weight and stopping abuse and murder. I look forward to his solution to the Israel/Palestine question as well.

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  22. David Garrett (6,731 comments) says:

    RRM: a “lunatic ideologue”…you have actually MET Mr Craig then? Did he have to interrupt a prayer meeting to see you?

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  23. Redbaiter (8,001 comments) says:

    Colin Craig has the guts to reach out to a constituency Key was too cowardly to try and appeal to.

    Now that Craig is reaping the reward for being seen to stand firm against social engineering, NZ’s liberals in Labour and National (and elsewhere) are combining their forces to smear him and discredit him.

    They forget too many people know who they are today and too many people also know the media is a nest of liberal progressive Marxist vipers.

    It won’t be as easy to destroy Colin Craig as they think.

    The tide is turning. Liberals have dominated for four or five decades, but power is slipping from their hands at an increasing rate and they don’t like it. Like all Progressives, there will be no moral constraints on what they will do to try and halt that slide.

    Colin Craig can expect the most despicable and cowardly attacks on a daily basis.

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  24. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    One thing this country do with a really good dose of conservatism.
    About the only things that society is better today than say 30 or fourty years ago are medical treatments (but not the delivery of them), ACC, housing and the internet.

    Almost everything else is of a lower quality – especially the important things. Welfare statistics, unemployment, work satisfaction, disadvantaged children, the railways, education levels, etc, etc.

    A return to some of the standards of some decades ago would be very welcome and make society a much better place.

    And all these standards have degraded due to what I call “Liberal ideas” – you know things “everyone should get a university education” – well what bullshit – there are no jobs for them and they all have big loans – and even though we are in the middle of a building lull – there are not enough trades people.

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  25. RRM (9,638 comments) says:

    David Garrett – No I haven’t met him. I judge him (like all politicians) by what statements they make in the public arena.

    If you sound like a sensible business guy, capable of managing complex problems that have multiple competing constraints and no obvious solution, I have respect for you. Key is this kind of man.

    If the best thing you can say during your time in the spotlight is some great sweeping general statement about how the Nation’s womenfolk are overly promiscuous, I’ll assume you are an idiot, more suited to online blog commentary than actually running the country…

    [Craig appears to belong in this latter category, along with most of Labour, all of Mana, and a fair few National & Green activists.]

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  26. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    RRM – nice edit. I saw what you did there ;)

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  27. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    Redbaiter: Colin Craig can expect the most despicable and cowardly attacks on a daily basis.

    At least you’re honest about what you do – is Craig too leftwing for you?

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  28. Keeping Stock (10,170 comments) says:

    I’m sure that Colin Craig will be delighted to have Redbaiter doing his cheerleading…

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  29. Griff (6,989 comments) says:

    Why is there continual confusion between left and right socialist capitalist
    conservative and liberal progressive regressive
    We do not live in a country were the two parties possible are stuck in a black or white dichotomy
    This is not the USA with its antiquated first past the post system
    There is room, for a purely conservative party on the right
    As there is room for a purely liberal party ie “act” or its successor on the right

    Its a pity that we may have to wait for a buildup of toxicity in national to fracture the right into factions that give us a viable choice

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  30. Redbaiter (8,001 comments) says:

    If you’re a member of National or Labour than it is you who are primarily to blame for NZ’s descent into the primeval Progressive Marxist swamp.

    If you voted for either of these two far left political parties then you’re as much to blame as they are.

    Especially if you voted for John Key’s cowardly Marxist Nats.

    NZ has been going down the wrong path for four or five decades.

    All of our social statistics demonstrate this to be a fact.

    Its time to take a new path.

    The Conservatives are far from perfect but they’re a welcome alternative to the one party Marxist state we’ve had to endure for so long.

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  31. Mark (1,424 comments) says:

    It is going to be interesting to watch whether NZ is ready for the Christian conservative right wing politics that Craig stands for. It is also going to be interesting to see how National manage the Epsom position. Banks has lain low for a week and one expects that he will continue with that strategy for so long as the media lay off him. But you have to thInk that Act is like a condemned man. still breathing (for now).
    Craig is a tougher proposition for National to partner with. Politically naive and less palatable for the those in Epsom who think tactical voting is Nationals beat option.

    Then you also have the possibility that banks can recover a bit of credibility and still be viable in 2014.

    Watch this space.

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  32. Dazzaman (1,131 comments) says:

    Craig is right. Our women are slappers…pretty plain looking slappers on the whole too.

    The greens, labour & national are full to the gunwales with crazy batshits…he’s sounding pretty sane amongst the din of liberals that make up that lot.

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  33. Redbaiter (8,001 comments) says:

    “Watch this space.”

    No thanks. Your analysis is (IMHO) just recycled beltway crap and worthless.

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  34. BeaB (2,080 comments) says:

    Why do these, usually a bit creepy, conservative males think it’s a good idea to comment on women.

    Surely it’s Politics 101 not to talk about women’s breasts, periods, sexual habits, contraception etc etc.

    But somehow these goofs like Don Brash and Colin Campbell can’t resist pontificating from their lofty heights of male superiority.

    I will always vote National but am much happier with partners like the Maori Party and Peter Dunne than any of these conservative ‘self-made’ men with their noxious views.

    And always that clammy tinge of misogynistic Christianity. Yuk.

    (And with Brash his promiscuous past).

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  35. Psycho Milt (2,365 comments) says:

    Our women are slappers…

    Your and who else’s women? And isn’t that a bit insulting to your women?

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  36. RRM (9,638 comments) says:

    I see 60k party voted for the conservatives last election. That’s as much as Mana, act & Dunne combined….

    They’re clearly not NOTHING.

    With enough advocacy from M’baiter, who knows where they’ll end up?

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  37. David Garrett (6,731 comments) says:

    Craig is very much a political neophyte…surrounded by a howling pack of leftie media hounds..he doesnt yet realise that his every word can and will be seized upon to portray him in as bad a light as they can manage. How quickly and how well he learns will to a considerable extent determine how well he does…

    We have a bunch of – by and large – bland politicians who don’t stand for very much at all because we have allowed the media to determine who stays in parliament and who gets elected…

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  38. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    DG: Craig is very much a political neophyte…surrounded by a howling pack of leftie media hounds..h

    Two edged sword. To get any traction you need the media to pay attention, but that runs the risk of the wrong sort of attention.

    because we have allowed the media to determine who stays in parliament and who gets elected…

    That’s the elephant in our room of democracy, a few people in media have a huge amount of potential power, and they are accountable to no one out here in the electorates.

    The worm has widely been cited as the reason behind the UF success in 2002, it wasn’t the worm, it was the attention the media gave it.

    Same last year, it wasn’t the cafe meeting, it was all the media play before and after that swung the sloshing votes.

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  39. Griff (6,989 comments) says:

    Sorry PG I believe that the inclusion of banks in the act line up and putting him in the position of a guaranteed seat done far more harm to act than the stupid tea cup affair
    I declined to vote because as a long term act member I found banks inclusion in the party abhorrent and I was not alone in this view

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  40. immigant (950 comments) says:

    Just had a read of teh conservatives website. They sound like and angry bunch. It’s all about guns and crime. If they keep this type of message up they won’t gain any votes or any memebers. Need to really push the family/good values thing a bit more then just no bail and better gun laws. Also maybe touch on topics that people actulay care about like welfare, economy, education.

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  41. Redbaiter (8,001 comments) says:

    “We have a bunch of – by and large – bland politicians who don’t stand for very much at all because we have allowed the media to determine who stays in parliament and who gets elected.”

    Who exactly does the “allowing” Dave?

    Colin Craig Flushes Out The Faux Right Wing Blogosphere.

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  42. Michael Mckee (1,091 comments) says:

    mikenmild (3,957) Says:
    May 11th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    haha I suspect it is repatriation, at least I hope it is.
    The Arab Muslims to Jordan.
    After all it was the original two state solution :-)

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  43. Mr_Blobby (135 comments) says:

    All very well and good but what is the truth.
    Are NZ Women a bunch of slappers?
    Stats about teen pregnancy and the number of one parent households and the number of Women with children to more than one Father, would say what.
    If you want a good Woman I suggest you look a bit further afield, like overseas.

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  44. TheContrarian (1,082 comments) says:

    I really don’t think NZ has the appetite for social conservatism

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  45. Richard Hurst (796 comments) says:

    Under the present MMP system Craig isn’t and never would be in parliament. He’ll remain a man standing in a room with a bag of cash calling himself a political party.
    From what I read of his statements he should sign Labours- ‘stop asset sales” petition cause that appears to be his position, wants to subsidize small businesses Taiwanese style and wants to tax booze and restrict advertising and promotions of selected alcohol products. The guy is a fucking socialist. In fact he reminds me of Jim Anderton. If Craig ever got into parliament he’d be likely to go into coalition with Labour not National!

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  46. Viking2 (11,261 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (111) Says:
    May 11th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    ” DPF – I think you displayed a bit of unusual nastiness in your column….”

    Damn right and its not the first time. Like John Key, Farrar has nothing but contempt for the Conservatives and that being the case he really has no business being in a party that has Conservatism as one of its founding principles.

    Smearing with untruth too is just another left wing tactic.

    The National Party under today’s “Progressive” leadership, has betrayed NZ and betrayed those who founded it and it does not deserve your vote.

    (You just need to look at who is supporting Farrar in this (RRM for example) to understand how far left the National Party has travelled)

    So according to the oracle named Redbaiter it depends on whether you are right or left for an opinion on your moral compass. If left then you are promiscuous, if right then you cross your legs and never have sex until you front up to some religious bigot who charges you for making you holy legal. Now the Muslims do that and then they can rent a wife as well.

    What a joke you really are red. You should leave before its completely proven to be so.

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  47. Viking2 (11,261 comments) says:

    mmigant (829) Says:
    May 11th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    Just had a read of teh conservatives website. They sound like and angry bunch. It’s all about guns and crime. If they keep this type of message up they won’t gain any votes or any memebers. Need to really push the family/good values thing a bit more then just no bail and better gun laws. Also maybe touch on topics that people actulay care about like welfare, economy, education.

    Yep that’s Redbaiter’s territory. What a sack of crap.

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  48. GJ (329 comments) says:

    I agree with others that NZ is well overdue for a good dose of conservatism and Colin Craig is the better of the options currently available.
    Sure anyone that puts their head up and addresses things that are a concern to many voters, gets it knocked off by the media whom actually appears to like the pathway they are trying to take NZ down
    It’s amazing how many on this site also seem to want to continue that same downhill slide and yes I am talking about a moral decline.
    Yet many NZ’s and especially many younger NZ’s that have grown up having to face these challangers and are now wanting to turn things around.
    John Key has been one of our best Prime Ministers and I hope that he continues, however a little bit more of a Conservative push would do no harm at all.
    I for one hope it happens.

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  49. mavxp (494 comments) says:

    The timing of Key “coming out” about gay marriage in NZ coincides with Obama doing the same. Is Key trying to pick up on the shifting sands of this issue with the NZ public (what is the focus group data telling him?), or is he merely trying to bathe in some reflected Obama glory when he walks over Romney? Obama has picked a fight with the right over a social issue rather than the economy to pick his preferred battleground. Key seems to be doing the same. Get the media agog with the homosexual marriage issue (which frankly a pragmatic politician like Key won’t give a toss about), and forget about the argument over the upcoming zero budget, and whether National have any direction at all.

    It is also perhaps interesting in that Key is more and more taking National “Left” of their traditional conservative position on the political spectrum, squeezing out Labour as the only progressive party (“not any more”), but also by doing so providing political space out right for Colin Craig’s Conservatives.

    If anything, Key’s criticism of Craig’s position is an opportunity in the sense of creating political space for Craig to establish his party and point of difference with National. It is also testing Craig’s mettle. Is he a worthy partner – can he go toe to toe with the media and survive? Will he be the weak link in any future coalition?

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  50. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    Griff at 2:31 pm Sorry PG I believe that the inclusion of banks in the act line up and putting him in the position of a guaranteed seat done far more harm to act than the stupid tea cup affair

    I agree that Act was already badly wounded by Brash, followed by Banks. But then Banks (or National) won Epsom despite the best efforts of some of the media. And Dunne won Ohariu despite the efforts of some of the media.

    But the cafe meeting (or more accurately the media circus around it) probably had a significant effect on Peters/NZF – that came close to costing National a slim majority with partners. And more arguably it also impacted on Labour who were in a publicity shadow at a key time of the campaign (who knows whetehr more coverage would have won or lost them votes).

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  51. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    I don’t think a dollop of Craig in parliament would be a good thing, representing a constituency, but that’s one reason why the threshhold would be better at 3 than 5, because he could get in without getting too many seats and say.

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  52. bringbackdemocracy (415 comments) says:

    New Zealand could do with a dose of Colin Craig’s common sense. It’s a shame we have to wait until 2014 to see it in parliament.

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  53. Nostalgia-NZ (5,038 comments) says:

    Yea, real common sense insult NZ women.

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  54. Zapper (962 comments) says:

    “The timing of Key “coming out” about gay marriage in NZ coincides with Obama doing the same.”

    Wasn’t he asked about it on the back of what Obama said?

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  55. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    Zapper – yes, issues get traction on the whim of media, sometimes on the back of worldwide media swarms.

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  56. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..(which frankly a pragmatic politician like Key won’t give a toss about)..”

    an unfortunate choice of noun/verb/phrase(?) there..?

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  57. wiseowl (821 comments) says:

    Using the word sluts by DPF was a deliberate attempt to paint the Conservatives in a bad light.
    The Nats have reached a point where they don’t even understand why they are Nats.

    The lost Nats commenting here have forgotten the huge number of party members who do not like what this government has done and I predict the Conservative Party will reach around 10-12 % next election.

    That is why all the denigrating talk is spouting forth.

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  58. Nostalgia-NZ (5,038 comments) says:

    Colin Craig will be sharing a cabbage boat with JB. He closed his chances down by not understanding that conservative NZ doesn’t denigrate women. He’s showed himself to be off beat and out of touch.

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  59. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    Social conservatism is really “socialist” conservatism….of the soul variety. They differ from their Left wing mates in only what they want regulated and banned….but they cross over each other enough to be equal enemies of freedom and civilisation most of the time. NZ needs neither of these old out of date hackneyed zombies…….it so desperately needs a fresh Libertarian future if its to have any real future.

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  60. Chuck Bird (4,759 comments) says:

    The Scorned, why do you dot have the courage of your convictions to use your real full name? Are scared people will realise how stupid you are? If many voters were interested in a Libertarian future they would they would have voted Libertarianz. The fact that party has never got 2000 votes should indicate their policies are a lot more fringe than the Conservative Party which got just under under 60,000 votes at its first election.

    As an ACT member I have met plenty of libertarians. I was a member back in 2000, probably when you were still in nappies. There was a much better mix. However, some of more obnoxious ones drove many members away. I am talking about children like you who I put on par with fundamentalist Christian door knockers who think only they know the real truth and if only everyone would listen to them NZ and even the world would be a utopia.

    ACT might have ended up with 2 or even 3 MPs after the ill considered coup if Don have not listened to nutjob libertarians and mused about the cannabis issue. like some fundamentalist Christians they appear to be from another planet. They had no political nouse. Had they not considered the almost certain reaction of John Banks and how that would effect the public’s perception of the party’s continued infighting?

    It is your mates that have done the damage to ACT. And they talk about individual responsibility. You are not even prepared to use you own name and take responsibility for what you say hypocrite.

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