Jones admits he was not sure of Liu true identity

May 23rd, 2012 at 1:00 pm by David Farrar

First an easy rebuttal of Jones claim that he was told Liu would be executed if he went to China. The ODT reported:

The department’s case officer, Johannes Gambo, told the court Yan boasted that he had politician friends who would ensure he was granted citizenship.

When told he would not receive citizenship, Yan said he was 99 per cent sure he would, according to Mr Gambo.

“He said he had a lot of support from members of Parliament … he was going to take them to China.”

Do you really think he would be planning to take his MP mates to China, if he was at risk of being executed and organ harvested?

Also an amazing concession by , as reported by Stuff:

Labour MP Shane Jones knew there were serious questions over the true identity of Chinese millionaire Yong Ming Yan when he gave him a New Zealand passport. …

Mr Jones admitted he knew there were questions about Yan’s identity. “I certainly know that there was a live issue as to whether or not this man is who he says he was … there was always a mystery … Those were allegations.”

So Jones has said that he was not sure that Liu or Yan was who he claimed he was, yet he still gave him citizenship!!

I can’t think of another non third world country where the Minister grants citizenship to someone on the urging of his mates, despite not even knowing if that is the person’s real identity.

The papers about this case are on the Investigate site and worth a read. Some salient points:

  • Nowhere at all in the papers is there any mention at all of fearing of going back to China. It is all about how much he has invested in NZ. So the reasons Jones says he made his decision on are not even in the official papers. It is all this mystery official’s verbal briefing!
  • The fraud charges in China are for NZ$2.7m
  • The papers clearly state he is entitled to reside indefinitely in NZ in terms of the Immigration Act, so this was NOT an issue about whether or not he might be deported to China. That is a total red herring.
  • According to the Chinese Government he stole another person’s identity in 1999 by falsely registering their birth, and used this to obtain two false passports. He stole the identity of .
  • The papers refer to Liu claiming he has worked to develop trade and good relations between China and NZ, including involvement in formalising agricultural agreements. Does this sound like someone terrified of China, and who fled because he was facing persecution?
  • The papers also refer specifically to humanitarian considerations and does not detail any applicable in this case.
  • The letter from Dover Samuels fails to disclose Liu donated to him.
  • Strangely the Samuels letter says Liu deeply respects NZ’s anti nuclear policy. God knows what that has to do with anything, unless it is code for being a Labour Party donor.
  • The papers make it clear that was the Minister initially dealing with this issue.  He must have recused himself only after a very late stage. Recall that Labour fundraiser Shane Te Pou took Liu down to meet Barker.
  • A follow up letter from Samuels borders on the hysterical and accuses the officials of subjecting Liu to “mental torture”, and that his treatment is not the mark of a civilised country. Samuels seems to think citizenship for migrants is a right, not a privilege.
  • ’s letter of support refers to the Immigration Minister not revoking Liu’s residency, and citing this as grounds for citizenship. So Cunliffe’s decision not to follow the advice of his officials, is then used to advocate for Liu to get special treatment from Jones, against official advice again.
  • Wong’s letter was just addressed to DIA, and did not in fact advocate what the decision should be, just that they should commence consideration and take account of his community contributions. I find that quite different to Samuels who directly advocated the outcome to the Minister in the strongest possible terms.
  • ’s letter, like Pansy Wong’s, cites Liu’s contributions but does not call for a particular decision and is a general reference, not an advocacy letter direct to the Minister. I find no fault with Carter or Wong, except that they would both have been wise to have declared Liu had donated to them campaigns.

I suggest people read the full file. There are parts redacted but hopefully after the court case they will become public also.

A great cartoon by Hubbard Emmerson.

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19 Responses to “Jones admits he was not sure of Liu true identity”

  1. Ian Wishart (82 comments) says:

    I would add, David, that the DIA miscalculated the amount of fraud involved. The law enforcement check we got done in China said the amount was nearly 100 times higher in NZ dollar terms…Yong Ming Yan was named in Chinese media for manufacturing fake pharmaceuticals, inflating company value on basis of supposed performance and popularity of said ‘drugs’, then selling out while the price was high.

    He paid cash for his multi million dollar Auckland properties…had far more money than a 2.7m fraud would account for.

    Details were in this particular story: http://www.investigatemagazine.com/tgif24Oct08.pdf

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  2. David Garrett (6,309 comments) says:

    DPF: According to Wishart’s story the $2.7 million figure of the fraud is wrong due to a miscaculation of the exchange rate that has never been corrected. Wishart says the true figure is $250 million…

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  3. Paw Prick (39 comments) says:

    I recall this story being broken by Ian wishart prior to the 2008 election. Why was it swept under the rug then and only rearing it’s head again now?

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  4. Richard Hurst (752 comments) says:

    Jones could not be reached for comment. He is locked in a hotel room with a box of tissues, handcream and some kind of vacum pump…

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  5. Ian Wishart (82 comments) says:

    There’s another good backgrounder from the Herald here…

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10554388

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  6. Keeping Stock (10,090 comments) says:

    Given that Liu was arrested as he was about to board a plane at Auckland International Airport in 2009, and that he feared for his life in China, it would be interesting to know what his proposed destination was.

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  7. Keeping Stock (10,090 comments) says:

    Apologies for link-whoring DPF, but Jones’ insistence that Liu would have been returned to China, jailed, executed and his organs harvested had he not granted citizenship are an absolute nonsense, and a red herring. Liu was a permanent resident of New Zealand, and could only have been deported had his residence been revoked, and a Removal Order served on him. That of course would have been contested and appealed ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

    In trying to exonerate himself, Jones has merely muddied the waters even more.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/shanes-red-herring.html

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  8. adze (1,856 comments) says:

    It’s beginning to sound like one or two Labour MPs need to go. A pity, Jones is quite likeable compared to some in the Labour caucus.

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  9. bhudson (4,734 comments) says:

    Doesn’t bode well for Shearer’s leadership. Cunliffe will be wearing his smarmy smile and Robertson will be worried that his cunning plan will be scuppered.

    Shearer will have to cling onto support for Jones as long as he can. Even if Jones doesn’t resign from parliament (and why would he?) then Shearer will likely lose his vote in any leadership contest. Likewise, if it drags on with Shearer standing by his man and their poll results drop, then a Cunliffe challenge is all the more likely, and with caucus support deserting Shearer.

    Oh the fun!

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  10. notrotsky (59 comments) says:

    Anthony Robins and the general Labour felchbretheren are desperately spinning at The Standard.

    http://thestandard.org.nz/jones-affair-politics-not-always-simple/

    Can I encourage anyone who has a few minutes to troll on over and give them all a serve.

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  11. Keeping Stock (10,090 comments) says:

    @ notrotsky – done; now excuse me whilst I go and have a shower…

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  12. Mark (1,356 comments) says:

    Key will be smiling like a Cheshire cat leading into the budget has this sort of crap is a low blow to what was remaining of labour’s credibility at a time they desperately need to get some traction. National have laid out the opportunity for Labour to have a go, especially around education announcements that are likely in the budget but the useless pricks just keep shooting themselves in the foot at every opportunity. The poor National Party strategists must have so much material to fire at Labour they are only spending their time choosing where to kneecap them next.

    As an opposition Labour is demonstrating a level of incompetence that makes the prospect of them being in the driving seat daunting indeed.

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  13. wreck1080 (3,723 comments) says:

    I don’t believe Shane Jones one bit.

    Unfortunate, I used to think he was one of the better labour figures.

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  14. Nostalgia-NZ (4,898 comments) says:

    ‘Yan boasted that he had politician friends who would ensure he was granted citizenship.’

    then later…..

    ‘Samuels letter says Liu deeply respects NZ’s anti nuclear policy.’

    still later……

    Samuels ‘accuses the officials of subjecting Liu to “mental torture”, and that his treatment is not the mark of a civilised country.’

    I think that gives a pretty clear idea of Dover’s views and what a ‘civilised’ country is.

    As suggested yesterday Shearer should have kicked Jones to touch and grabbed the electorate’s attention with that., and add now, that if Jones had any presence of mind at any point after using the emotive words ‘organ farming’ he would have walked and taken his crap with him. Walk Shane Jones.

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  15. Pete George (22,739 comments) says:

    @patrickgowernz
    Shane jones will be stood down. Auditor general called in by labour

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  16. Pete George (22,739 comments) says:

    @ONENewsNZ
    BREAKING NEWS: Labour leader David Shearer has stood down Labour MP Shane Jones.

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  17. Kimble (4,375 comments) says:

    [Shearer] said Mr Jones had encouraged him to take this action because he has been left in the “impossible position” of not being able to clear his name, which an inquiry will allow him to do.

    *cough* Bullshit. *cough*

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  18. bringbackdemocracy (391 comments) says:

    Granting citizenship to someone with multiple identities means more multiple voting for corrupt Labour.

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  19. Paulus (2,492 comments) says:

    Bet Clark is glad that she is not here – this all occurred on her watch remember.

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