A historic handshake
June 28th, 2012 at 10:00 am by David Farrar
Photo from Stuff.
In one sense it is not unusual for the Queen to meet and shake the hand of “her” deputy first minister in Northern Ireland, but Martin McGuinness is better known for his former roles in the Provisional IRA, including allegedly its Chief of Staff from 1978 to 1982.
Some will not like this, but I think it is another good step forward. Norther Ireland today is far better off than when the conflict was in full flight.
UPDATE: Also worth noting that McGuinness probably signed off on the assassination of Lord Mountbatten in 1979, who in a cousin of the Queen’s and uncle of Prince Philip. I understand Prince Philip went out of his way, not to shake hands which is understandable. The Queen however must do what is best for her country.
June 28th, 2012 at 10:07 am
That is something I never thought I would see, ever.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 10:16 am
They both seem to be smiling with a genuine warmth too! Amazing and positive…!
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 10:21 am
The IRA are still playing the long game.
They are very far left.They are slowly capturing an increasing share of the vote in the Republic and this is part of that strategy.They got no where with the bomb and bullet campaign that included murdering loyalist Catholics and destroying any dissent within their own “community”.
Eventually the leadership realised they had to turn to constitutional politics to gain the power they crave.
At heart they are dangerous criminals.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 10:22 am
I did hear on the radio that, unsurprisingly, Prince Philip was not so keen for a chat with McGuinness.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 10:23 am
It’s odd, Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley where known as the chuckle brothers as despite being on the opposite sides, feinian and loyalist respectivley, they got along very well.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 10:25 am
alex
Kindred spirits. Both ugly hate filled extremists.They probably recognised something mutual in each other!
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 10:25 am
Incredible woman. To be able to advance the peace process so much, with the visit to Ireland last year, and now this despite the fact that she and her family were targets and victims of the IRA is selfless. Truly remarkable.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 10:28 am
The queens role is symbolic but she sends a powerful message of peace and reconciliation. Indeed that is a stand out feature of her reign.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 10:29 am
“Eventually the leadership realised they had to turn to constitutional politics to gain the power they crave. At heart they are dangerous criminals.”
My thoughts exactly- political power is simply a way of legitimising crime.
“Kindred spirits. Both ugly hate filled extremists.”
Thought you were talking about HRH and the IRA for a minute
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 10:30 am
Or it could simply be that they worked it there’s no point in killing each other till the end of time.
Their big problem is the younger ones they’ve trained to fight to the death – they don’t have the maturity to realise that the fight is pointless and you get a splinter group that wants to fight on. Which is what’s happened with the IRA several times already.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 10:37 am
Powerful – both the handshake and both expressions. Important symbolism for Northern Ireland, good on both of them.
On Back Benches last night Metiria Turei was asked if she would curtsy for the Queen and she said she would, because she’s nice or good or something similar. That would be more of a hypocritical symbol.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 10:40 am
Pete George: not hypocritical, just polite. Just like when I go to church I bow my head when people pray, even though I’m not religious myself. It causes me no harm, and it’s polite.
If I met the queen I’d also be respectful. Same as when I meet senior politicians, even if they’re not my side of politics. Manners are never inappropriate.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 10:47 am
“An Historic Handshake” please
I am just anal about these things (although my own grammar is not that great either).
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 10:52 am
@fletch
A historic is more common in online writing, but both usages are sufficiently common to be considered correct.
http://www.betterwritingskills.com/tip-w005.html
Vote:http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/a-historic-event-or-an-historic-event
June 28th, 2012 at 10:57 am
o/t ,grammar,spelling etc
the one that really gets me is “bought” instead of “brought”
I hear it ponounced eveyday but now it’s becoming common in pint! Dives me cazy!
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 11:02 am
Just crying out for a caption competition.
“Missed me, you bog Irish prick.”
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 11:09 am
Prince Phillip skipped out of the way when McGuinness attempted to make conversation with him, obviously the murder of Prince Phillip’s uncle Lord Mountbatten has not being forgotten or forgiven.
Vote:The Queen however is to be congradulated for taking the initiative to meet and shake hands with McQuinness despite the animosity that exists between them.
It was noticeable that a true spirit of reconciliation was demonstrated by members of the public who when interviewed by the BBC said that it was time to move own and to put the past behind them.
June 28th, 2012 at 11:19 am
I agree it is great that the initiative has been taken and that peple get on and put the past behind them. I would like to think that it will include dropping the parades commemorating the Battle of the Boyne. I was there when they were on and even though I am a protestant I felt really intimidated by the flags and “No Surrender” banners. Both sides need to grow up.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 11:22 am
Sam Buchanan Says:
Vote:Thought you were talking about HRH and the IRA for a minute
……
heard Sam and a libertarian on Chris laidlaws program. The libertarians point was weak on the matter of first movers grabbing the advantage and Sam was weak on the role of gangs.
June 28th, 2012 at 11:23 am
Its this sort of thing that only an institution like the Queen can accomplish.
Politicians couldnt do it and even if they tried they couldnt make it stick – theyve always got an eye on the votes. Its this sort of thing that makes me very wary of the cry for a republic.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 11:49 am
“Prince Phillip skipped out of the way when McGuinness attempted to make conversation with him, obviously the murder of Prince Phillip’s uncle Lord Mountbatten has not being forgotten or forgiven.”
That was the INLA, not the IRA.
It’s worth noting that McGuinness and his party still advocate the replacement of the Queen in Northern Ireland with a Republican head of state.
[DPF: My understanding is the PIRA are thought to be most likely]
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 12:13 pm
I’m not an IRA supporter by any means, but I always think the division of Ireland in 1921 was a tragedy. Northern Ireland should never have been given the opportunity to opt out of the Irish Free State. This is largely what led to the 50 years of agony that life in that region of the island subsequently became. And it hasn’t been fully resolved yet… just a lull in the fighting.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 1:03 pm
@DPF: Oh, seems you’re right. Still, it definitely was not the IRA that McGuinness was a member of. They had a policy of not attempting assassinations of high-profile targets (not for moral reasons, mind, they were quite happy to kill cops and soldiers).
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 1:16 pm
Fancy wanting to fight and kill people over possession of Belfast.
If Hamilton or Palmerston North ever decide to assert their independence, they can just have it…
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
And Tame Iti and co can have their own mini-state in the Ureweras too.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
Prince Phillip DID shake hands publicly on the footage I saw.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
diagotsu got it wrong first time and second.
Vote:Ever heard of Christopher Ewart Biggs?
June 28th, 2012 at 1:49 pm
or the attack on the conservative hierarchy at Brighton. Go do some reading boy.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
INLA murdered Airy Neave,ever heard of him diagotsu?
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 2:01 pm
As DPF noted, it is the PIRA, not the IRA. The IRA still exists as the ‘official IRA’, although it is pretty much unheard of these days.
Interestingly enough, as Kowtow noted, both the PIRA and the oIRA are hard left politically!
Dave Mann,
the official division of North and South took place in 1925, but I take your point which refers to the Treaty. However, there was never any chance that the North would join the South at that time. The Ulster Volunteers were almost as well armed as the British army at the time, having imported a shipload of German rifles only a decade beforehand. While the Southerners would have loved for the North to join them (and the IRA continued low level operations there for a time), the fact was that everybody knew that a united Ireland was impossible at the time.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Don’t call me “boy” motherfucker. Brighton was the PIRA
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 2:23 pm
we’re an expert now,buachail?
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
Crime pays. In the end you get to handshake the Queen!
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 3:30 pm
“Crime pays. In the end you get to handshake the Queen!”
Monarchs are just the descendents of those whose armed gangs managed to stay in power long enough to be considered legitimate, so it’s just a difference between the new crims and the old crims really.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 4:49 pm
If anyone thinks that McGuinness and Adams weren’t still running the paramilitary side of PIRA at the same time as playing politicians with the “political wing” Sinn Fein…I have this bridge…
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 5:57 pm
That photo makes me feel sick. There is no way that our Queen should be shaking hands with that murdering Catholic bastard.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 6:10 pm
BB – I have no doubt that Phil would have said something politically incorrect to him at some stage during the meeting…
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 6:21 pm
big bruv the bigot,can’t let one anti catholic opportunity go by without a rant.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 6:48 pm
RRM
I do agree with you, the “Greek” might be a silly old duffer in many ways but I don’t think that the man lacks courage.
Kowtow.
You have a problem when I make a statement of fact?
Or like Lucia, are you prepared to forgive Catholic murdering scum simply because they are of the same faith?
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 7:00 pm
BB,
why add “Catholic” to your description?
McGuinness(to his credit) probably doesn’t even believe in god, just goes church for the TV cameras, like Bill Clinton did.
And he is no more a murdering bastard than the troops who opened fire on Bloody Sunday.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 7:02 pm
Quite right JMS, those soldiers were murdering bastards too.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 7:07 pm
JMS
I added the word Catholic because that is what the murdering bastard is.
As for the troops, I assume you are talking about the tropps who were fired upon first?
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 7:10 pm
Sam Buchanan – subscriber to the sins of their fathers …
You sad fuck.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 7:13 pm
BB
who cares if he’s a bloody Catholic, who cares if the Queen is a bloody protestant. Though the Queen probably does believe in the great fairy in the sky.
The troops were fired upon before they opened fire?, did you just make that up?
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 7:15 pm
JMS
Vote:I’m pretty sure they said they were fired on – is that good enough?
June 28th, 2012 at 7:18 pm
JMS
No…it was a statement of fact.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 7:20 pm
So the Saville enquiry got it all wrong?
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 7:21 pm
mikenmild,
good enough for big bruv it seems
BB,
where did you find this fact?
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 7:32 pm
bb
have a read of my earlier comments before shooting your mouth off.
jms
Vote:it appears McG claims to b a devout Catholic ( I think most Catholics would have a problem with his definition /actions)
June 28th, 2012 at 7:38 pm
kowtow
McGuinness strikes me as too intelligent to be religious, though clever enough to fool his supporters that he is religious.
Vote:Totally reminds me of Bill Clinton.
June 28th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
Those soldiers didn’t get up that Sunday morning intent on killing innocent people. McGuiness and his mates, on the other hand, with their indiscriminate bombings at Enniskillen, Omagh or the main shopping street of my home town, where they killed a three year old…I’d happily chain him to the toe bar of a ute and drive Auckland to Wellington.
I will piss on his grave one day. It’s on my bucket list.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 7:52 pm
But that’s what they ended up doing that day, wasn’t it?
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 7:58 pm
James,
The Omagh bombers were are pack of dumb brutal murderers intent on indesciminate mass killing with no apparent realistic goal in sight. McGuinness had by then already signed the good friday agreement, Omagh only weakened his position.
Vote:McGuinness (in an Arthur Harris kind of way) always did have a brutal logic to his slaughtering and a (somewhat) achieveable goal.
June 28th, 2012 at 8:14 pm
JMS
Where the hell do you get your information from?
McGuinness was dragged kicking and screaming into the negotiating room, he was one of the last to agree to destroy the IRA’s stockpile of weapons and until recent times he refused to return to his terrorist ways.
Both Adams and McGuinness are murdering scum, the blood of thousands of innocent people is on their hands, it makes me sick to see them treated like human beings when they should have swung from a rope ten years ago and be well dead and buried by now.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 8:23 pm
BB,
McGuinness (like Arthur Harris) was a killer, but unlike the Omagh bombers or Al Qaeda, actually had a realiseable goal, and when McGuinness realised he was going to get something from compromising, he stopped killing.
Vote:That is what differentiates him from Al Qaeda for example, who are just psychotic allah worshipping killers who would just keep killing no matter what they were offered.
June 28th, 2012 at 8:33 pm
JMS
Are you trying to rewrite history?
There is a bloody strong argument that the only reason the IRA came to the negotiating table is because they were very close to losing the “war”.
Don’t ever think that McGuinness has compromised, the only reason the bastard came to the table is because he could see a way of getting what he wanted simply be encouraging the Catholic population of Northern Island to keep on breeding.
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
If the IRA were ‘losing’ the war, why did the British compromise? Just jolly good sports were they?
Vote:June 28th, 2012 at 8:45 pm
BB
The IRA still had the guns, bombs and bullets to keep killing for decades. Most of Gaddafis weapons shipments in the 1980s had actually made it through. Adams and McGuinness saw they were losing the public relations war, as more and more
Vote:Nationalists were becoming more disallusioned with the IRA(especially after Enniskillen) and less disallusioned with Westminster (they saw the British government was making an honest attempt to improve their lives, and their lives and rights had certainly improved since the 1970s). They could have kept killing, there are always enough fanatics out there somewhere, but they were losing the support of their own nationalist constituency.
June 29th, 2012 at 1:42 am
JMS its fucking amazing what you know my friend!!!!!!
Vote:Just stunning infact!
From what I know and believe me my knowledge is more than passing historically through text and romantic idealism, Lord Mount Batten was a peice of shit who deserved to sent hell and was passed from this earth with great haste, a good days work done by some pretty hardcore individuals.
Enniskillen was a mistake,an absolute disaster for the cause,but it hastened the end of a bitter time and thankfully thing are better now at home because of patience and real belief that to go back would be the worst thing for all Irish.
As for” losing the war”,that idea is wrong ,for the fighting could have continued for decades,it was however the end of popular support by rank and file republicans that forced the military wing to the negotiating table.
We were simply sick of women and children being slaughtered under the guise of republicism.
It was going nowhere.
June 29th, 2012 at 8:45 am
lilman claims to be sick of women and children being slaughtered under the guise of republicanism.
So “a good days work”, as you put it, at Mullaghmore saw who else murdered in the name of your disgusting republicanism?
Vote:June 29th, 2012 at 11:25 am
“Sam Buchanan – subscriber to the sins of their fathers …
You sad fuck.”
LOL.
Er no actually – it’s just that the Queen’s position is hereditary, in case you haven’t noticed. So it came about due to the actions of her ancestors. She didn’t achieve the role due to personal merit or winning an election. Not blaming HRH for that, just pointing out that her position was created by her ancestors crimes. Undeniable really, unless you have some sort of weird ‘they’re better people than us’ or ‘appointed by god’ syndrome.
Vote: