Hone and Mana on gay marriage

June 21st, 2012 at 7:00 am by David Farrar

Morgan Godfery blogs:

  is known for a lot of things, but not many people realise he is a social and moral conservative. He is against, for example, drug liberalisation and and in an interview with Bryce Edwards Hone claimed to be against a society of “choice”. This, I think, reveals an authoritarian attitude not uncommon in Maori males of Hone’s generation. …

Anywho, as I said Hone Harawira is opposed to gay marriage, or marriage equality as it’s positively framed. This position has been opposed universally within the Mana Party. Leading members have asked Hone to justify his position, but he is yet to face the membership with a justification. This is unacceptable from the party leader and he will be rightly savaged for it. 

This issue will be interesting to see play out.

Hone is a Maori nationalist politician who is left economically. Most of his party though are hard core leftists, who detest social conservatism. This naturally creates tensions.

The other friction is that Hone is not a “Explain yourself” type politician. he is more in the Jim Anderton mode of my way or the highway. I still believe his departure from the Maori Party was more about ambition – he could not secure the leadership. So he may be reluctant to moderate his views, no matter how much his supporters want him to.

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30 Responses to “Hone and Mana on gay marriage”

  1. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    look sorry about this but this has occurred to me completely off-topic I know and this is a blog and stuff so can I get this off my chest? That geyser who went missing in the bush for four days am I the only one who thinks this was an elaborate ploy by said tramper to get on ‘I shouldn’t be alive or something. it seems fishy to me.

    Meanwhile – on topic – IMO Hone will vote in favour of ‘gay’ marriage with his integrity intact by claiming he took one for the team.

    By ‘taking one’ I mean a bullet, of course.

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  2. Martin Gibson (206 comments) says:

    There may be similarities between Marxism and Tikanga Maori . . . they are similar enough to weakly glue the Mana Party together but as soon as these bonds get tested they will crack because the two ain’t the same.

    Likewise their goals in the short term may look similar; raise the poor, each according to their needs etc. Long term they are quite different because the ideal Maori state is one of Mana Motuhake, or self-determination through family connections, while the Marxists trend`toward authoritarian world socialist government via enforced dependency and destruction of the family unit via feminism and portrayal of homosexuality as an equally valid, even superior choice to conventional hetrosexual family units.

    Here in Gisborne there are plenty of pinkos trying to pass Marxism off as tikanga. It works among the angry Maori because they hope to bond through common hatred but you don’t have to dig far down to see it unravels easily . . . hopefully before it’s too late for freedom, but the country will be damaged in the process.

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  3. kaykaybee (122 comments) says:

    In short, he’s bigoted,intolerant and authoritarian.

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  4. kowtow (6,706 comments) says:

    I don’t like Hone or his party. Nor do I like the people demanding change.

    Why should anyone who is for marriage have to justify their position?

    The people who want change need to justify their demands.

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  5. slightlyrighty (2,448 comments) says:

    Anti Gay Marriage, Check

    Anti Inter Racial Marriage, Check.

    Can any of you lefties explain how he ended up as your standard bearer??

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  6. Chuck Bird (4,410 comments) says:

    This confirms my belief that there is something good in nearly everyone.

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  7. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    Kowtow….its the bigots who changed marriage from once being for anyone who wanted it to the lie of it being a traditional,hetro religious affair.

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  8. kowtow (6,706 comments) says:

    scorned wants a return to prehistory. Where was this homosexual utopia?

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  9. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    I am not sure that Morgan Godfrey’s opinion holds any weight with me. Judging by the comments following the article this person appears to be another radical, this time on race.
    I actually have a much higher opinion of Hone now that I’ve heard he is sticking up for marriage. Good on him!

    DPF – you really should join the Labor Party. Gay marriage, Maori radicalism, surely the left is your natural home?

    [DPF: Most National supporters support gay marriage. It is not a left thing. You are the one hugging Hone, not me]

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  10. Fletch (5,722 comments) says:

    Kowtow….its the bigots who changed marriage from once being for anyone who wanted it to the lie of it being a traditional,hetro religious affair.

    Oh? References please.

    As I see it, marriage is not so much based on any societal mores, but on Natural Law itself. What we term Marriage conforms to what is already there. Societies that “go against the flow” and attempt to redefine it, tend to fall over.

    I know that many Roman emperors, including Nero, ‘married’ those of the opposite sex – Nero even wore a dress. That doesn’t mean that it was good.

    As Tacitus relates one incident (Grant’s translation): “Nero was already corrupted by every lust, natural and unnatural. But he now refuted any surmises that no further degradation was possible for him. For…he went through a formal wedding ceremony with one of the perverted gang called Pythagoras. The emperor, in the presence of witnesses, put on the bridal veil. Dowry, marriage bed, wedding torches, all were there. Indeed everything was public which even in a natural union is veiled by night.”

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  11. dubya (200 comments) says:

    Interestingly, Hone’s Executive Assistant in Parliament is a flamer and former Ian Wishart magazine cover model:

    http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/2/article_11330.php

    Must make for an interesting office dynamic. Though perhaps heightened emotions are suppressed by the knowledge that no gay man in his right mind would marry Jevan Goulter.

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  12. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Hone’s having a good day. Not only has the article confirmed that he has the support of racist, socialist Maori radicals but his conservative views on drugs & gay marriage has attracted the the vote of the Christian whackjobs. By 2014 he will have been ordained as a bishop & ready to take on the Destiny Church as an equal.

    Politics does strange bedfellows make. :)

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  13. kowtow (6,706 comments) says:

    No nasska

    “Equality” does strange bedfellows make.

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  14. Michael Mckee (1,091 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird
    +2
    I’m with you on that one :-)

    Meanwhile some reading against the push.
    http://townhall.com/columnists/jeffjacoby/2012/06/20/forget_the_research_our_minds_are_made_up/page/full/
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X12000580

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  15. emmess (1,333 comments) says:

    There may be similarities between Marxism and Tikanga Maori

    I disagree, Hone is from the Robert Mugabe strain of Marxism

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  16. Mark (1,301 comments) says:

    I am no supporter of Harawira’s political ideals but DPF your are being more than a little disingenuous. There are significant differences of view on this issue within your own National party so that is allowed but god forbid if any other party has internal conflict on what are essentially conscience issues. It is more difficult within the socialist environment to be a moral conservative but there are some fairly hard line moral conservative views within your party that you as an open supporter of gay marriage rights do not so openly criticise.

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  17. Than (371 comments) says:

    Don’t really matter much if Hone and the Mana Party disagree. The party is never going to get enough votes for more MPs, and Hone will still be re-elected regardless of what Mana do. He can tell them where to go, remain in parliament as an independent, and the failed experiment that is the Mana Party can fall into obscurity.

    Does Hone get additional funds for being a “party leader”? If so this is a loophole that really needs to be closed; would also apply to John Banks and Peter Dunne.

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  18. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/whensamesexmarriagewasachristianrite.html

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  19. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Hmm… and anti-gay Maori radical. This will get a few people here tied right up in knots…

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  20. Dazzaman (1,114 comments) says:

    Amazing, even Hone’s got something good going for him then.

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  21. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    …”even Hone’s got something good going for him then.”……

    By nightfall the fact that he’s not yet dead will be the only impediment to instant beatification.

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  22. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    “DPF: Most National supporters support gay marriage”

    Maybe urban Liberal National supporters who you may hang out with. I think there is a lot of anxiety in the provincial heartland about the National party supporting gay marriage. I hope that John Key has more sense on this issue. Otherwise he will lose a lot of support.

    I reckon for most National supporters this is a bridge too far.

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  23. Chuck Bird (4,410 comments) says:

    “I think there is a lot of anxiety in the provincial heartland about the National party supporting gay marriage.”

    Not just supporting it but very close to John Key promoting it.

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  24. PaulL (5,775 comments) says:

    No surprise on Hone.

    On gay marriage, the simple answer is that the govt has no place in marriage, nor in deciding who can or cannot marry.

    So, do as some other countries do. You register your union with the government for the purposes that the government should care – the fact that you wish the person you’re forming a union with to be your next of kin, to sue you if you split up, etc etc.

    If you want to get married, you find a church that wants to marry you, or a celebrant, or whatever else floats your boat, and you get married.

    End of argument, end of problem. The basic issue here is the government ever being involved in marriage in the first place.

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  25. Northland Wahine (542 comments) says:

    PaulL…

    That would the open the debate regarding age… That is also defined by law. Because I am damn sure that there are those religions that would allow marriage a lot younger than our current law.

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  26. wat dabney (3,458 comments) says:

    Where was this homosexual utopia?

    Ancient Greece?

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  27. Chuck Bird (4,410 comments) says:

    “That would the open the debate regarding age… That is also defined by law. Because I am damn sure that there are those religions that would allow marriage a lot younger than our current law.”

    Iran had it 9 for quite a while after the revolution.

    Speaking of other religions in Oz there are groups demanding polygamy should also be recognized. It didn’t dop Ben Laden much harm – or did it?

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  28. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird

    I would hope that those who spend their lives apologising for Western values & bending over backwards to appease a pack of Islamic primitives who choose to honour us with their presence might find some backbone on this one. Surely kids can have a childhood without being married off to some old pedophile just because their religion allows it & their prophet encouraged it.

    The phrase that starts “when in Rome” should be pointed out to these retards on a regular basis.

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  29. kowtow (6,706 comments) says:

    Ancient Greece?
    Man /woman, public interest.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_marriage_law

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  30. PaulL (5,775 comments) says:

    Northland Wahine: I have no problem with people carrying out religious ceremonies on people of any age. They can baptise them, they can marry them. Nobody, however, can have sex with someone under age, nor commit them to a forward contract to share their assets when they’re under-aged. Within those constraints, why would I care whether they’re married?

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