Minto says smash the machines

July 30th, 2012 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

Veteran activist is set to launch a campaign of “civil disobedience” to close a controversial poker machine outlet, saying he is prepared to personally smash its machines with a hammer.

Why use a hammer. Maybe he should use a Minto Bar?

Minto yesterday led a protest outside Galaxy Takeaways, in the Otara shopping centre in South Auckland, which for the past eight months has operated 18 poker machines.

Its venue licence was cancelled recently by the Department of Internal Affairs.

But Galaxy Takeaways has been given an exemption to keep its machines working after management lodged an appeal to the Gambling Commission.

Speaking to the Sunday Star- Times in a courtyard outside the shop, Minto said he would do everything in his power to get the machines turned off for good.

“We will be back and this may come down to a case of civil disobedience,” the Mana Party vice- president Minto said.

“If outfits like this are allowed to flout the law, the community has a right to come in and assert themselves. And I think this community will come in and assert itself over places like this.

“If a community says ‘No’, I would be prepared to stand with them, all of us with hammers, and go in and smash the machines.

“Let’s do it ourselves. Let’s go in and get rid of them.”

It is a very dangerous thing when any person thinks they are above the law and have a divine right to take the law into their own hands.  Far better to let the legal process run.

Minto said Mana had received figures that Galaxy Takeaways machines had “sucked” approximately $864,000 out of the Otara community.

And how much has been spent on Lotto in Otara? Will that be banned? I’m not saying are the same as Lotto. They are more addictive. But a mere statement about how much has been allegedly spent, with no time-frame or comparison is near meaningless.

Minto said while computer games were nothing new on the premises of takeaway bars, such as Space Invaders or Pac-man, he said it was a moral outrage that one shop was now offering poker machines. “It is appalling . . . do you want pokies with your fries?” he said.

I can’t see the problem personally. I would have thought there was less harm having pokie machines in a venue you tend to spend 10 – 15 minutes at, than one where you can spend all day gambling, and getting served alcohol.

“You have got to run an entertainment centre [to have pokies]. This is not an entertainment centre, it is a fast-food outlet.”

If they do not meet the legal criteria, then they will lose their licence.

Tags: ,

90 Responses to “Minto says smash the machines”

  1. kowtow (6,720 comments) says:

    This sums up the left.
    I don’t like something, I give myself a mandate, I take the law into my own hands,I break the law and call criminality social or community activism.

    Now let him smash the place and sling his arse in gaol where it belongs.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. KiwiGreg (3,129 comments) says:

    Poor old Minto, carrying the white man’s burden to Otara to save the islanders from themselves. Cheerless, misanthropic, racist twat.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. Nookin (2,891 comments) says:

    Civil disobedience does not extend to smashing somebody else’s property with a hammer. That is called criminal damage. For some reason, we have allowed a minority to impinge on the rights of others simply because they do not believe in those rights. It happened at Waihopai. It happened at John Banks’ electoral office. It is time that somebody sent the message that the belief that a particular law may be wrong or that somebody should not have rights that the law attributes to them is not a mitigating factor. It should be regarded as an aggravating factor. That is what the rule of law is all about.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    Minto is far from the first politician to talk like this, and one of the best examples would be his glorious leader Hone Harawira.

    On a related note, I have for years found it utterly unbelieveable that so many MPs – who are responsible for drafting legislation and bringing into being new laws – seem to consider themselves above the law when it suits them. And they see nothing wrong with this. Look at how many MPs we have seen who have broken the law in their past, yet see no problem in drafting laws for the rest of us.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. Nostalgia-NZ (4,697 comments) says:

    Perhaps he’s likening them to p houses, but causing a different type of addiction. Most mornings I see addicts of both types, some going to the chemists for their legal, and I assume free, high, a boost which hopefully stops them needing to commit crime and allows a relatively normal life as well. And the others selling or borrowing to raise coin for the pokies that open at 10am.
    Perhaps, some in that later group do commit crime for their fix. They also, as we know, leave children to starve and locked in cars outside the casino – seems like someone or something needs a good hammering.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. fish_boy (152 comments) says:

    A favourite tactic of the suffragettes was to use arson to try and burn down the clubs and offices of the male bastions who opposed women’s suffrage, then when caught by the police they went on determined hunger strikes. Now, what would be the difference between Mr. Minto smashing Galaxy Takeaways poker machines and the now recognised as noble actions of the suffragettes, beyond his actions being of considerably less violence?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Pete George (21,828 comments) says:

    Minto said while computer games were nothing new on the premises of takeaway bars, such as Space Invaders or Pac-man…

    What century is Minto living in?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. RRM (8,994 comments) says:

    :-) :-) :-)

    GAME OVER

    INSERT COIN

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. kowtow (6,720 comments) says:

    fishy

    You may consider their actions “noble”,brainwashing by the media ,education and feminist faction has worked on you or maybe your brain has gone soft from being in a fish tank all day.

    S’far as I’m concerned criminal activity in a liberal democracy will always be criminal activity, no matter how you dress it up.

    As an aside I was reading a social history of WW1 some time back,one of the entries was about how the general working women who carried alot of the strain in war production in the factories were very happy with their patriotic role and the good wages and who had very little time for the suffragettes,who didn’t seem as interested in the grimy aspects of the war effort. Very noble indeed.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. gravedodger (1,426 comments) says:

    More addictive than Lotto, I think not when the traffic and who make it up when a big Jackpot is offering is considered.

    Lotto can employ saturation advertising at such times.

    I tend to regard Pokies as cleaning equipment soaking up voluntary funding for other uses.

    Btw was the entity running the machines a real charity or not.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. Ricardo (53 comments) says:

    “It’s moments like these you need Mintoooooo” Sung in a fine voice.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. Graeme Edgeler (3,222 comments) says:

    Surely there’s a line everyone would cross … what would it take for you engage in “violent” civil disobedience, DPF?

    (and others too)

    [DPF: A law change, with no mandate, that sought to extend the term of the current Parliament. Even then my civil disobedience would be non violent]

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. Rightandleft (574 comments) says:

    Absolutely ridiculous that he thinks that is civil disobedience. There is nothing civil about destroying other people’s property when the courts have allowed them to legally operate the machines. This campaign against the pokies is just more nanny-statism from the far left. The people using the machines are gambling away their own money, they earned the right to do with it what they want. If their kids are starving as a result then social services should step in, but not before. A very small percentage of the users are actualy addicts, but Minto and his kind think they must protect all of us, punish the many for the sins of a few.

    The only thing about the pokies that I think is a travesty is that some people spend their benefit money on them. That is something that has to be stopped. Once you are living on the taxpayers’ money you have no right to spend it as you like. Benefits should be paid on special debit cards that can only be used for food, rent and such. That’s the system used in the US and while it isn’t perfect it’s better than just handing them the cash and watching them run straight to the pokies.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. alloytoo (338 comments) says:

    “You have got to run an entertainment centre [to have pokies]. This is not an entertainment centre, it is a fast-food outlet.”

    What Minto is really saying is that he wants booze and comphy chairs when he plays his pokies.

    It’s all about standards, no chippie grease on Minto’s pokies.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    Yes, Yes comrades from the left! and once we have smashed the pokies we must burn down the TAB! Then destroy the Sky City Casino!
    Then we will turn our attention to Lion Breweries and that evil Cadbury’s chocolate factory- They must be smashed also!
    Everything that does harm to society must be BANNED!
    (Oh except for Cannabis of course…not being able to fry our brains on pot every day is an infringement of our civil liberties..)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    PG- Good point. Space Invaders and Pac Man were out of date when I was a kid!
    Defender and Commando were way cooler…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Manolo (12,637 comments) says:

    Poor deluded loser Minto is. I hope he carries out the threat and sent to jail as a consequence.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. Pete George (21,828 comments) says:

    Surely there’s a line everyone would cross … what would it take for you engage in “violent” civil disobedience?

    Good question.

    I think this is just typical Minto attention seeking, he’s unlikely to actually do it. Targetting one pokie premise when it’s a much wider problem is not something I’d support. I think there has to be better ways of addressing pokie addictions.

    I defaced an election sign once but that wasn’t very violent.

    I sort of seriously considered major vandalism (and talked about it with someone) related to the Clyde power project but didn’t come close to doing anything.

    There’s nothing currently in NZ I feel close to considering violence for, so it’s hard to know what it would take, but I’m sure I’d do violence – even to the extent of killing – if I thought it was sufficiently justified.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. Elaycee (4,084 comments) says:

    Why does the media give this pathetic loser Minto any oxygen? Who cares what he says? Who cares what he believes? Why should his views be worthy of any column inches?

    Or is he given ‘publicity’ because our blatant left leaning media fawns over anything that comes from the gob of union hacks?

    Pathetic. What next? An opinion piece by Penny Not-so?

    Pffttt…..

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    “Now, what would be the difference between Mr. Minto smashing Galaxy Takeaways poker machines and the now recognised as noble actions of the suffragettes, beyond his actions being of considerably less violence?” – Fish_boy

    Nothing. They are both equally stupid and equally wrong.

    “Surely there’s a line everyone would cross … what would it take for you engage in “violent” civil disobedience” – Graeme Edgeler

    Fair point. But it seems to me that about the only justifiable reason would be to defend lives that are in clear and present danger.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. Northland Wahine (551 comments) says:

    Oh I can’t wait for minto to take a hammer to a pokie machine while some 20 stone plus PI is on a winning streak. Guess where that hammer will end up..

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. calendar girl (1,108 comments) says:

    Minto has always been prepared to break the law, and he has always been given a relatively lenient ride by the law – hence he’s prepared to break the law again. No surprises there.

    Now that he’s an aspiring politician, you might have expected him to change his spots. Surely he can’t expect to use the political, electoral and legislative structures (that reinforce the rule of law in New Zealand) to achieve his own political objectives, while at the same time planning violent law-breaking. That’s hypocritical, and anti-democratic.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    Wahine: What a brilliant image! Be even worse if the PI in question was a man!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. calendar girl (1,108 comments) says:

    PG: do tell us whose election sign you defaced.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. mikenmild (8,892 comments) says:

    I agree with fish boy above. Context takes some time to emerge. Who is to say that at some time in the future that direct action against the pokie industry is not seen in the same light as the suffragettes or Springbok tour proteststors?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Graeme Edgeler (3,222 comments) says:

    Fair point. But it seems to me that about the only justifiable reason would be to defend lives that are in clear and present danger.

    I was thinking Vichy France was clearly on one side of the line. Not sure where I’d draw it though.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    Counter protest needed…..

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. nasska (9,549 comments) says:

    …”“Surely there’s a line everyone would cross … what would it take for you engage in “violent” civil disobedience” – Graeme Edgeler”…..

    Probably a government rigging elections or some sort of blatant legislation that endangered democracy. That said, most revolutions & uprisings occur over relatively minor incidents so maybe most of us have a built in ‘tipping point’.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    “I was thinking Vichy France was clearly on one side of the line. Not sure where I’d draw it though.”

    Yup, that was the example that came to my mind as well. Also violent disobediance to the Nazi state in defence of Jewish lives.

    But beyond that kind of thing I cannot see destroying private property as ever being justifiable.

    “Who is to say that at some time in the future that direct action against the pokie industry is not seen in the same light as the suffragettes or Springbok tour proteststors?” – MM

    Oh please, spare us the list of PC causes. None of them justify violence.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Mary Rose (392 comments) says:

    Fishboy>Now, what would be the difference between Mr. Minto smashing Galaxy Takeaways poker machines and the now recognised as noble actions of the suffragettes,

    Not that I’m in favour of violent direct action, but to answer your question:

    In the one case, women were being denied a part in democracy.

    In the second, there are machines which people can choose to waste money on. Or choose not to.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. UpandComer (496 comments) says:

    I am young enough to have sympathy with Minto on this one. I used to flat about a TAB which was right next store and linked onto a pokie licensed premises. It was really horrible. When it was just me and my flatmates were away I would go down to the carpark and talk to the kids and give them food and entertainment. They would be there all day saturday while mum was pokying away. I do think that the whole gambling industry needs to be reformed. I know that a lot of the money they make goes back to community trusts, but if the money stayed in the community in the first place….. I don’t know aye, I remember I had to run inside to get the dad to open the car door for his toddler in the car was crying, but it was scary because she started to look really faint on a hot day. Pokies are poison in my view. They only promote solitary, obsessive, self-stimming behaviour and they use all kinds of psychological techniques to turn people into rats inside a skinner box.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. mikenmild (8,892 comments) says:

    UpandComer
    Don’t be so selfish. The parents are the only ones responsible for those kids’ misery. And besides, if we cut back on pokies, how would sports clubs raise money – go out fundraising for themselves? Preposterous. If anything, we should have more pokies to raise money for worthy causes. The number of Sky dishes in poor areas tells me that there is still plenty of money around.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Minto is the greatest New Zealander of all time. Pokies add no net value to society and should be banned outright.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. Yoza (1,353 comments) says:

    Pokies should be banned from all lower socio-economic areas and concentrated in affluent suburbs, I could guarantee the existance of pokie machines would not last very long. The reason the residents of Remuera in Auckland and Khandallah in Wellington do not need to resort to threats of violence to stem the infestation of pokie machines in their suburbs is directly proportional to the influence those communities wield.

    Good on John Minto for standing up for those on whom the gambling industry preys. As the corrupting of the legal system to serve the interests of the rich and powerful becomes more apparent the option to resort to violent civil disobedience becomes more legitimate in the eyes of those who want to defend their communities and their children’s futures from the depravities of the ruling elite and their business class mercenaries.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    “Minto is the greatest New Zealander of all time.”

    He’s a Marxist Jew-hater and a terrorist supporter. He adds no net value to society and should be banned outright.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. peterwn (2,939 comments) says:

    There was a question in Parliament about these same machines, and the responsible Minister pointed out that the Government was legally powerless to shut the machines down pending an appeal. This appears to be a defect in the legislation. However there was a case in UK where a rest home was put out of business after being shut down for reasons that just did not ‘hold water’, and in my opinion, the courts were too chicken to award damages to the operator against the health authority concerned. Hence it is highly undesirable for legislation to have ‘shut down’ powers with no effective rapid redress, especially as suing the Crown for improper use of its powers is extremely difficult.

    The best legislative compromise would be that in such cases, pending any appeal, proceeds from the machines should be held in trust to be forfeited to the Crown in the event that the appeal fails.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    “the option to resort to violent civil disobedience becomes more legitimate in the eyes of those who want to defend their communities and their children’s futures from the depravities of the ruling elite and their business class mercenaries.”

    I want to defend children from the depravities of cultural Marxists, social liberals, and violent left wing thugs.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    @Yoza

    Here is a good way to get rid of pokies…
    No violence necessary.
    Don’t play them and they’ll disappear.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. Grendel (875 comments) says:

    >Pokies add no net value to society and should be banned outright.

    they can be fun if you like that sort of thing, so there is your value.

    of course if someone enjoying something is not worthy of value, what else do you ban?

    video games
    team sports
    movie theatres
    pubs
    etc
    etc

    gambling machines are not evil, they are not good, they are simply a machine. if someone chooses to waste their money an endanger their kids, that is their problem and their fault, not the machines. they machines prey on no one, they sit there, in seperate room, and require you to actively seek them out. they do not prey on anyone, you have to choose to use them. i have walked past many many gambling machines in my day and have never once had one of them prey on me.

    if parents are endangering their kids by neglect, they will neglect them for something else if its not the gambling machines.

    this is just a scape goat for the lazy left to try and excuse the bad choices of the gullible poor they rely on for votes.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. Boglio (73 comments) says:

    It all sounds like the Housie that was played in a building next to our office with a carpark that overflowed. In the end they put in parking machines to take any money that the Housie didn’t. The same people there five days a week with the kids in the carpark. No wonder there was never enough for the kids breakfast and lunch or for school donations!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    @Yoza:

    Pokies should be banned from all lower socio-economic areas and concentrated in affluent suburbs

    Why stop there? Let’s ban pubs from all lower socio-economic areas, so that the residents don’t get drunk. And liquor stores. And sporting shops, so they don’t buy baseball bats to hit their kids with. Do away with dairies, because they sell cigarettes to the people in these “lower socio-economic areas”. Actually, better get rid of supermarkets too, because they sell cheap booze and cigarettes and fizzy drinks. The big red shed had better go, it sells spray cans that can be used for graffiti.

    The reason the residents of Remuera in Auckland and Khandallah in Wellington do not need to resort to threats of violence to stem the infestation of pokie machines in their suburbs is directly proportional to the influence those communities wield.

    Rubbish. It’s because these people know about this weird concept called “taking responsibility for your own actions”.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. dime (8,778 comments) says:

    PLEASE let this douche bag go nuts on some pokie machines!!!!

    From there id like to see a bouncer beat him to a pulp THEN id like to see him doing a stretch!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. axeman (250 comments) says:

    Minto is NEVER part of the solution. Therefore he is ALWAYS part of the problem. Just like his racist leader John Hatfield

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. Fentex (663 comments) says:

    Seems to me if a community is so outraged by such machines in such a place and wants to take community action picketing the shop and shaming people they think are being tempted to ruin their families finances would be the appropriate community thing to do.

    Rushing in and smashing things by Mintos leave would appear to be more about Minto than the community.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Manolo (12,637 comments) says:

    The left, always totalitarians at heart, trying to dictate to the rest of us how to live our lives.
    To the do-gooders and busybodies who claim to know what’s best for me: Fuck off!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Buy your own pokie machines. Put them in venues with a sticker outside declaring that the proceeds from the pokies will not go further than 1km away from that venue. Encourage boycotts of the other pokies and establishments that house them (in places where the local-proceeds pokies are nearby).

    Incentivise venues to stock the local-proceeds pokies by making it more profitable to do so. Incentivise punters to use the local-proceeds pokies by doubling the chances of winning as compared to the competition.

    Use 30% of pokie revenue to buy more non-profit pokie machines. The other 70% stays in the local community. No individual or group profits from the non-profit pokies. Organising everything can be done by volunteers – if you’ve got time enough to smash things with hammers and probably be arrested, you’ve got time enough to organise something that will have an actual positive effect.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    Good Lord…one can only hope “Hamnida” (where DO they get them?) is taking the piss claiming Minto is “greatest New Zealander ever”..

    Sir Archibold McIndoe; Ernest Rutherford; Apirana Ngata; Ed Hilary; Charles Upham; hell, even M J Savage (the real one)…all of them inferior to a racist professional protestor whose name will be forgotten long before any of the foregoing…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    The left, always totalitarians at heart, trying to dictate to the rest of us how to live our lives.
    To the do-gooders and busybodies who claim to know what’s best for me: Fuck off!

    Out of curiosity, Manolo, are you in favour of cannabis legalisation?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. Manolo (12,637 comments) says:

    … are you in favour of cannabis legalisation?

    To satisfy your curiosity: Yes, I am.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    To satisfy your curiosity: Yes, I am.

    Ah, the sweet and rare scent of consistency on Kiwiblog.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Grendel (875 comments) says:

    yep Ryan, the left are very short of consitency, along with the religious conservatives.

    See the left claim to be liberal but want anything fun, or a little bit bad for you if you overindulge banned (except dope for some reason).

    the religious conservatives want the state to stop interfering in their religion but want the state to interfere in everyone elses life.

    its the libertarian or true liberal that is consistent, we want the state out of, or at least severely minimised in all aspects of life that require personal choice and responsibility.

    so coming from your left blog i am not surprised you rarely see consistency.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    yep Ryan, the left are very short of consitency, along with the religious conservatives.

    See the left claim to be liberal but want anything fun, or a little bit bad for you if you overindulge banned (except dope for some reason).

    the religious conservatives want the state to stop interfering in their religion but want the state to interfere in everyone elses life.

    its the libertarian or true liberal that is consistent, we want the state out of, or at least severely minimised in all aspects of life that require personal choice and responsibility.

    I’d like to think the same is true of us left libertarians.

    so coming from your left blog i am not surprised you rarely see consistency.

    Hah, no one goes to my blog, bud. I rarely see anyone :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. beautox (408 comments) says:

    “Pokies should be banned from all lower socio-economic areas and concentrated in affluent suburbs, I could guarantee the existance of pokie machines would not last very long.”

    Of course they wouldn’t last long – they would not make a profit. Pokies are a tax on lack of basic math skills (or more bluntly, a tax on stupidity). Such things are more prevalent in poorer areas (I wonder why?? Perhaps some academic could do a study…)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. Mobile Michael (367 comments) says:

    Pokie machines are not my favourite things, so I kind of sympathise with Minto – up to the point of his violence.

    As for those who want to legalise drugs, I’m also with you as long as those who OD or otherwise turn up at the hospital as a result should have to pay for treatment (just like the morbidily obese) and addiction disqualifies you from a state benefit.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. laworder (265 comments) says:

    Rightandleft wrote

    The only thing about the pokies that I think is a travesty is that some people spend their benefit money on them. That is something that has to be stopped. Once you are living on the taxpayers’ money you have no right to spend it as you like. Benefits should be paid on special debit cards that can only be used for food, rent and such. That’s the system used in the US and while it isn’t perfect it’s better than just handing them the cash and watching them run straight to the pokies.

    This! While I intensely dislike pokies, as they feed on people’s addictions, and even have a little sympathy for Minto here, Rightandleft has a far better answer that will address a whole range of social ills, not just pokies

    Regards
    Peter J
    see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Komata (972 comments) says:

    Sadly, Mr. Minto is time out of mind – the world no longer cares, and in Otara who gives? The locals certainly don’t to any great degree, and I suspect that if Minto follows through, the usual gaggle of white university students (especially young females – and don’t go there please) will be to the fore. Very few PI’s will – they’ll just stand around and, after Minto has done his thing, just carry on as before. Wahine’s comment is appropriate.

    BTW, (in this context) has anyone noticed that the vast majority of those who are breaking their necks to ‘help’ PI’s are European, determined to ‘rescue’ PI’s from themselves. I wonder if this is actually a form of Cultural Imperialism – despite the good intentions of the busy bodies who are always trying to ‘improve’ the poor downtrodden PI’s? They would of course deny such things, but one does wonder. Just a thought.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Garrett et al – I rate Minto because he is totally selfless. Every battle he fights is for the benefit of people and/or groups who lack their own socio political capital.

    I hope Apiata is a future Governor General or President, if we ever get that far.

    I note ex ACT MPs are always remembered for all the wrong reasons – whether it’s ruining NZ’s economy and social fabric, breaking the law, wearing stupid clothes, or making a mockery of democracy.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    Komata: right on the money…and the “sickly white liberals” to quote W Peters, can never see it…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Grendel (875 comments) says:

    actually Ryan one of the areas i have always wondered with ‘left’ libertarians is their inconsistency.

    a left lib understands the need to keep the state out of their bedroom and does not want the state dictating how the live their life, who they love, what they put in their bodies (though many left libs fail their libertarian membership on that last one).

    however when it comes to money they lose it and are all about the state interfering. they want the state to interfere with how much money i am allowed to keep, they want the state to redistribute, they want the state to pick winners and use taxes to promote or depromote the current flavour or bad guy, and they want the state to interfere in contract between willing parties.

    as a ‘right’ libertarian my consistency is consistent, i want the state out of my life and can make my own choices good or bad in terms of social and economic. the left libertarian is utterly inconsistent when it comes to their tackling of the social vs economic sides of things.

    the closest excuse was that it was the lesser of evils for the greater good, but it still does not explain the inconsistency.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    Hamnida: And what do you think you will be remembered for, silly little (wo)man?

    As an anonymous commenter on blogs?

    “Son, using a pseudonym, because I was scared those nasty right wingers might come and get me, I used to post comments on these things we used to have called ‘blogs’…No, I never actually DID anything, just wrote anonymous comments, often attacking others. No, I never set up my own blog because it was easier using someone elses..”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    actually Ryan one of the areas i have always wondered with ‘left’ libertarians is their inconsistency.

    a left lib understands the need to keep the state out of their bedroom and does not want the state dictating how the live their life, who they love, what they put in their bodies (though many left libs fail their libertarian membership on that last one).

    however when it comes to money they lose it and are all about the state interfering. they want the state to interfere with how much money i am allowed to keep, they want the state to redistribute, they want the state to pick winners and use taxes to promote or depromote the current flavour or bad guy, and they want the state to interfere in contract between willing parties.

    That does not sound like a left-libertarian to me. That sounds like a social democrat.

    as a ‘right’ libertarian my consistency is consistent, i want the state out of my life and can make my own choices good or bad in terms of social and economic. the left libertarian is utterly inconsistent when it comes to their tackling of the social vs economic sides of things.

    the closest excuse was that it was the lesser of evils for the greater good, but it still does not explain the inconsistency.

    Again, I think you are talking about social democrats, not the libertarian left. The libertarian left opposes capitalism as it stands, but does not believe that state control or interference is an acceptable solution.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. nasska (9,549 comments) says:

    Good point on cultural imperialism Komata. Surely even the PI’s politeness must be stretched at times when they have people who wouldn’t dream of living amongst them falling over themselves to save the poor misguided fuzzy-wuzzies.

    They wouldn’t have to be too good at connecting the dots to see the irony when the same palagi sold them the idea of churches which economically enslave their congregations in order to create riches on earth.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    “The libertarian left opposes capitalism as it stands”

    Right Libertarians (of which there are several shades) oppose capitalism as it is currently practiced.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    Hamnida: I don’t rate Minto, because however good his intentions may be, he is completely unable to see anybody else’s viewpoint or side of the argument.

    A classic example is his harrassment of Shahar Peer. He absolutely could not see that she might just have a right to play tennis uninterrupted, or the paying patrons might just have a right to watch the match.

    In his role with Mana, he believes that anybody earning over $250,000 should be taxed at 100%. That’s right – not 50%, not 75%, let’s take the lot. Minto absolutely cannot see that someone who works hard might just have the right to enjoy the fruits of their labour.

    John Minto is completely blinkered by his idealogy.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. Grendel (875 comments) says:

    what the hell is a social democrat? the left splinters far too often :)

    to be fair the people i have noticed with this say they are liberal and then look a sheepish when you point out that at best they are half liberal (true liberal, not US liberal).

    i also struggle to see how you can be a libertarian and oppose capitalism, but then i dont really understand the lefts desire for control anyway :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    i also struggle to see how you can be a libertarian and oppose capitalism, but then i dont really understand the lefts desire for control anyway

    I think the statist left’s desire for control comes from a belief that they know better than others and a lack of imagination.

    Being a libertarian (a true libertarian – i.e, an anarchist, not a minarchist) involves opposing capitalism when the system of capital ownership is seen as a form of domination in society – a systemic prevention of liberty.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. Tauhei Notts (1,511 comments) says:

    Beautox at 12.08.
    Please allow me to repeat your succinct analysis, because it is the best post on this subject.
    “Pokies are a tax on stupidity”.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. kowtow (6,720 comments) says:

    Dave Garrett and greatest Aotearoans

    Sir Keith Park ranks a bank note at least.

    http://www.terrysmithblog.com/straight-talking/2009/11/fitting-place-for-a-hero-the-man-who-won-the-battle-of-britain.html

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Graeme Edgeler says:
    July 30th, 2012 at 9:42 am
    Surely there’s a line everyone would cross … what would it take for you engage in “violent” civil disobedience, DPF?

    (and others too)……….

    What a good question. And I cannot think of anything. The only time I will / would act viloently these days is when someone or something puts my family in physical danger.

    An invasion by a foreign power , but that would be war so thats not civil disobedience.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Hamnida (30) Says:

    July 30th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
    Garrett et al – I rate Minto because he is totally selfless.

    John Minto is one of the most selfish individuals I have ever met. He does nothing that is not ensuring that John Minto’s comes out of it looking as he wants to look and will use others to make this happen.

    You will note that he very rarely puts himself in any position where he is in physical danger, he has the fuck wits do that. He will only come to the front when there are plenty of cameras and he knows he will not get hurt.

    All in all he is a rather pathetic individual

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    kowtow: A notable omission Sir…Upham just popped into my head; Park would have been a much better military example.. in the opinion of many – as you know – if it wasn’t for Park the Battle of Britain would have been lost…

    but surely the silly little (wo)man was taking the piss?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. Northland Wahine (551 comments) says:

    David… Even more so if a said PIis fafafine…

    I think pokies and housie halls take food out of kids mouths too. Thing is, you remove one addiction and up pops another in some form or another. What they need to learn is self responsibility and accountability. End of story.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. Paulus (2,298 comments) says:

    Minto should talk to Russel Norman – he and his associates are against everything.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Garrett – Hamnida is my real name and I am a man.

    It is a legitimate opinion to think Minto is the greatest New Zealander ever.

    Others I rate: Apiata, Lange, Mansfield, Savage, Kirk, Callaghan, Gluckman and our tens of thousands of returned service people.

    I also have a lot of time for nurses. Very hard job including shift work.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    A meeting between Willie Apiata and Minto…I’d pay money to see that one…

    How many years have you been at Uni how Hamnida? Yep, Minto would stack up against Sir Keith Park…google his name…see if you learn anything….mind you with a mind like yours it’s probably a pointless exercise…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    “If ever any one man won the Battle of Britain, he did.”

    – Winston Churchill of Sir Keith Park.

    Don’t tell me Hamnida…Churchill was a war monger? Park was complicit in the murder of innocent German pilots?

    How simply things are for the callow youth….Well I hope to God you ARE a youth…The young can be forgiven most things.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Garrett – In your 1:30pm post, the second sentence does not make any sense. Could you please repeat it?

    I do not consider myself a “youth”.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. Graeme Edgeler (3,222 comments) says:

    “If ever any one man won the Battle of Britain, he did.”

    – Winston Churchill of Sir Keith Park.

    Not confusing Winston Churchill with Marshal of the RAF Lord Tedder, are we David G?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    It would be unusual for David G to get something wrong or misquote someone. After all, he has been so honest and successful in life to date.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    My mistake Graeme….nice to know that at least one young man knows something of truly great men….

    Highlighting a typo, little boy! Haw haw haw! That’ll persuade the adult audience of the value of your argument…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    If I could understand the sentence, I would give you answer, typos or not.

    You seem to have some serious issues with using peoples names in wrong ways. I don’t think you are the type of person to be handing out life advice.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. kowtow (6,720 comments) says:

    I have a lot of time for cops.Very hard job, including shiftwork.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    “Being a libertarian (a true libertarian – i.e, an anarchist, not a minarchist) involves opposing capitalism.

    Anarcho-Capitalists might dispute that.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Anarcho-Capitalists might dispute that.

    Not if they quoted the whole sentence.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    “It is a legitimate opinion to think Minto is the greatest New Zealander ever.”

    It’s an opinion, but it’s not legitimate. It is in fact just plain silly.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    “religious conservatives want the state to stop interfering in their religion but want the state to interfere in everyone elses life.”

    Thats a huge generalisation. I’m a religious conservative and a paleolibertarian. I don’t want the state to interfere in anyones life. But then the concept of “interference” can be subjective.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    Lee01: I think the young man may be a student, so hopefully he will grow out of his foolishness once he has added a bit of life experience to his “book learnin”..

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. big bruv (12,380 comments) says:

    “I don’t want the state to interfere in anyones life. ”

    Except when it comes to allowing “those poofters’ to get married aye Lee.

    Just another hypocritical religious fundy.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  89. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    Big Bruv,

    If you had turned off the voices in your head for a few minutes and actually read my posts you would have seen that my position was to get the state out of marriage altogether.

    I was arguing about the definition of marriage, not what the state should do.

    And the only “religious fundies” are in your head.

    Take your medication.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  90. BlairM (2,266 comments) says:

    The main problem with pokies is that they are run by cartels. Deregulate them and allow people to provide them for profit. Machine owners will compete with each other for better odds, and people won’t lose as much money playing them.

    As for Minto, I am still regretting not organising an occupation of his property to turn it into “the people’s house”. :-P

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.