More credibility issues for Liu and Jones

July 6th, 2012 at 1:39 pm by David Farrar

at 3 News reports:

3 News has learned New Zealand authorities were working with Chinese counterparts to have a controversial Chinese millionaire extradited.

Yong Ming Yan, also known as , is the mystery Chinese man granted New Zealand citizenship against official advice.

And new documents show how why officials wanted rid of Mr Yan.

In China he faced allegations that he “misappropriated funds in excess of $61 million New Zealand dollars”, and “Chinese authorities wanted him returned to face charges and had requested his extradition.” …

Discussion between officials in both countries was happening just three weeks before Mr Jones’ decision, and the Chinese Ministry of Public Security referred to “the importance of the Yan case.”

The documents also detail a raid on Mr Yan’s apartment in the Metropolis tower. They show there was plenty of interest in taking part – not just from immigration – but also the Police’s Asian Crime Squad, Internal Affairs, Customs, the Serious Fraud Office, Inland Revenue and the Ministry of Fisheries.

Authorities were also informed by Internal Affairs that Mr Yan “is spending literally millions of dollars at the casino and associating with known criminals.”

So officials here and in China were working on having Mr Yan extradited. Then, at complete cross-purposes, Mr Jones’ decision meant Mr Yan got citizenship here in a special ceremony at Parliament.

Liu/Yan seemed to be under active investigation by almost every criminal or regulatory body we have.  You had Government officials in almost a dozen ourfits investigating him, and trying to get him extradited to stand trial in China – and in the midst of this Shane Jones grants him citizenship!!!

There is another story by Gower, which wounds the contention that Liu/Yan was a democracy activist and Falun Gong supporter who feared execution in China.

Now here’s a twist – the mystery Chinese millionaire, Bill Liu/Yong Ming Yan, is linked to an even more controversial Chinese billionaire caught up in a massive political scandal that is rocking the Communist Party to its core.

That link is through a man called Xu Ming – one of richest men in China.

Xu Ming is big time – touted as a potential Chinese Finance Minister before a foiled coup plot.

And Liu/Yan is apparently so close he even bought Xu Ming into New Zealand for a visit at one point.

Gower asks:

  • Why was Bill Liu/Yong Ming Yan so fearful of going back to China if he had connections with people so close to the very top of the Communist Party?
  • Why was Bill Liu /Yong Ming Yan – who claims to be a leader of the Chinese Democracy movement – prepared to host such people out in New Zealand?

Good questions. Noe ones asked by Shane Jones, but hopefully will be asked by the Auditor-General.

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20 Responses to “More credibility issues for Liu and Jones”

  1. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    Strange you didn’t link to your earlier comments when you suggested Liu was is no danger of being deported. The fact is, he was in grave danger of being deported.

    [DPF: As always you are wrong. I never said China did not want him extradited. I said the decision before the Minister was about citizenship not residency, which is very different]

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  2. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    ross69, I can understand you having trouble with the concept, but deportation is not the same as extradition:

    “Deportation
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Not to be confused with extradition.”

    ” Extradition is the surrender to another country of one accused of an offence against its laws, there to be tried, and, if found guilty, punished. Deportation is the removal of an alien out of the country, simply because his presence is deemed inconsistent with the public welfare and without any punishment being imposed or contemplated either under the laws of the country out of which he is sent or of those of the country to which he is taken”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation

    Hope that helps your understanding.

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  3. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    No no no no no, ross is NEVER wrong, that cant be right. Oh, hang on…

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  4. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    So if the Chinese want him, why hasn’t he been extradited yet?

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  5. david (2,557 comments) says:

    Because he is now a NZ citizen?

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  6. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    NZ citizens can be extradited.

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  7. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    ??? but we don’t have an extradition treaty with China??

    In fact as I recall, nobody does (they like to keep things in-house).

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  8. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    I haven’t checked, but if we don’t then he wasn’t in danger of being extradited!

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  9. Eisenhower (137 comments) says:

    “I haven’t checked, but if we don’t then he wasn’t in danger of being extradited!”

    New Zealand’s extradition procedures are laid out in the Extradition Act 1999 (the Act) which governs the extradition of persons to and from New Zealand. The Act does not require a foreign country to have a treaty to request extradition from New Zealand.

    Further more –

    Extradition to other countries

    Part 5 of the Act allows countries with which New Zealand has no formal extradition relationship and that are not members of the Commonwealth to request extradition from New Zealand. The Minister of Justice decides whether or not a certain case should proceed on the basis of:

    Reciprocity;
    The seriousness of the offence;
    The object of the Act; and
    Any other matters the Minister considers relevant.

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  10. slijmbal (1,236 comments) says:

    As China will not extradite Chinese nationals full stop. There is no reciprocity.

    I seem to remember the “accidental millionaire” could not be extradited from China but was extradited when he went to Hong Kong with whom we do have an extradition treaty for historical reasons. He deliberately gave himself up.

    China would not extradite the taxi driver killer though surprisingly did prosecute him in China.

    but as earlier stated – he gained no additional defense by being a citizen.

    I also think Gower is probably drawing an awfully long bow by translating investigation in to criminal activities in to risk of extradition. Revocation of residency followed by deportation maybe.

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  11. Muzza M (291 comments) says:

    Does anyone out there know if Shane Jones is currently shitting himself. Shane if you get canned over this, please bring down all of the other cronies who were involved.

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  12. orewa1 (410 comments) says:

    Question: If any maverick/rogue/incompetent/crooked Minister has the ability unilaterally to over-ride officials’ advice in such cases, isn’t the system short on checks and balances?

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  13. kowtow (8,486 comments) says:

    If Bill Liu vos really fat und eextraavagant und wore black und vos involved vit de intershmet maybe Campbell could befrend him und ze rest of Niue Zeeland might pretend his case vos important.

    As zee FBI vernt involved it zeems no von gives a shit.

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  14. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    Thanks Eisenhower

    I’d always assumed this required a bilateral arrangement. I wonder what the logic was in enacting this without the security of a bilateral protocol?

    I suppose the reservation of the Ministerial discretion is intended as a measure of protection. It could be the backstop against extradition by dodgy regimes. Fortunately, we have always been blessed in having Ministers who aren’t dodgy and wouldn’t act against the advice of Officials or worse, be bought off by the promise of the filthy lucre.

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  15. slijmbal (1,236 comments) says:

    @davinci

    The fact that the extradition allows certain acts needs to be mapped back to what happens in practice. Inter-country agreements appear to be left deliberately vague as an aid to negotiation.

    In practice – neither country has every extradited someone from the other except via Hong Kong and that is a hangover from when HK was English.

    China has a policy to not extradite Chinese nationals. It has extradited a small number of foreigners to places like the UK.

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  16. MT_Tinman (3,186 comments) says:

    orewa1 (223) Says:
    July 6th, 2012 at 8:01 pm
    Question: If any maverick/rogue/incompetent/crooked Minister has the ability unilaterally to over-ride officials’ advice in such cases, isn’t the system short on checks and balances?

    The contrary situation applies.

    The fact that this matter is being investigated and we are talking about it suggests the checks and balances are in place and working well (if slowly).

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  17. Bogusnews (474 comments) says:

    I remember when John Key first came into office he made several cryptic remarks in parliament alluding to very suspicious activities perpetrated by labour.

    While I don’t believe he was referring to this, I suspect he would have had a smorgasbord of other corrupt activities to choose from.

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  18. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Just follow the money, eventually it will lead to all the answers.

    My fantasy is:

    General meeting of the Labour Party;

    “Look we’re broke, Shane you’re in charge of fundraising.

    And we’d better keep detailed minutes.”

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  19. Terry J (31 comments) says:

    Just who really cares what China wants they are supporting the al-Assad regime in Syria who a currently slaughtering their citizens and all Labour are concerned with is saving Shane Jones arse

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  20. KevinH (1,227 comments) says:

    If all the allegations made against Liu/Yang on this thread are true then the only outcome for him on return to China would be the death penalty.
    Also it was bizarre and extraordinary that Dover Samuels was acting as an advocate for Liu/Yang at his court appearances earlier this year, a potentially damaging association for the Labour Party in Te Tai Tokerau.

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