Again – not given full details

August 31st, 2012 at 10:36 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

Auckland schoolboy Peniata Junior Endermann is just 16 years old but already works 25 hours a week to help keep his siblings in school and provide the basic necessities for his family.

The Edgewater College student works from 5pm until 10pm Monday to Friday as a cleaner earning $13.85 per hour.

Between school, his job and homework Endermann puts in 16-hour days.

What great dedication to his family. That is a lot of responsibility for a 16 year old, and ideally no 16 year old should *have* to work 25 hours a week.

And the story states that he does *have* to work 25 hours a week so his family can make ends meet, but gives absolutely no details on which people can judge if that is the case.

The forum heard that one-parent working families were now experiencing severe financial hardship, young people were being forced into work through poverty and employment opportunities for school leavers were declining.

Endermann said he helped his mother, who also worked as a cleaner, to provide for his family and three siblings aged 15, 13 and nine.

“It is very hard to survive on my wage as it is not enough,” he said.

What we are not told, is how much income the family gets from:

  • The mother’s job as a cleaner (I’d assume $27,000 a year if FT)
  • Working for Families (I estimate $388 a week or close to $20,000 a year net)
  • Accommodation Supplement
  • Income from the Father
  • What their outgoings are

Now I’m not saying that if we knew all this, that the story would be wrong. It may be that the family really has no choice but to have their 16 year old son work 25 hours a week. My point is we are not given any information on which to make any sort of independent judgement – which makes the story more propaganda than information.

 

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46 Responses to “Again – not given full details”

  1. Cunningham (844 comments) says:

    I thoroughly agree and it really pisses me off. The media seem to pump out story after story with no details at all. How is this journalism?? Yet so many people will read this and know nothing about the points made above.

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  2. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    It’s a well known fact 20% of New Zealand children live below the poverty line.

    This is just one of many cases.

    The young man should be concentrating on his studies, not working 25 hours a week.

    How can we tolerate a society where a CEO earns $5,000,000 a year and gets tax cuts worth thousands of dollars per week, while the minimum wage remains at $13.50 per hour.

    Justice must be on the way.

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  3. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    No ham, justice is waiting for one of Lens trains.

    Justice? As defined by your Marxist texts? As noted by smarter people than me, it doesn’t matter how much you change how income is redistributed, 20% will always be below the line. You get that, right?

    So tell me, you chose one example of a CEO earning $5m. What would you pay that CEO? Remembering he or she is responsible for billions of assets and investments, and thousands of people’s livelihoods. Not just flipping burgers. So, how much?

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  4. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    I no longer read Stuff articles that begin in a conversational style, e.g.

    Auckland schoolboy Peniata Junior Endermann is just 16 years old but already works 25 hours a week…

    It’s not a creative writing assignment. You’re not fourth formers. THE NEWS, please.

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  5. loonybonkersmad (27 comments) says:

    “… which makes the story more propaganda than information.”

    Yes … but I guess we’re getting used to that now aren’t we … from both the MSM and blogs.

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  6. Keeping Stock (10,340 comments) says:

    Of course it’s political propaganda. FFS; the question in the House yesterday was asked by Darien Fenton, the Queen of the Working Class, and former friend of Sir Peter “Mad Butcher” Leitch until Sir Butch saw the light and became a Tory. That should tell you all you need to know.

    And Tony Ryall shot Fenton down in flames with his answers yesterday. Day in and day out, Ryall has been one of the top performers in the current government, and in the clip below you can see why.

    http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/14855

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  7. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    You’re not making the case you pretend with posts like this. Break it down:

    Newspaper publishes a report describing how NZ wages are now so low that if you’re in a low paid job your family won’t have enough to make ends meet, and uses a particular family as an example.

    You point out that such families actually get social welfare payments (WfF, Accommodation Supplement) to help them make ends meet.

    I presume you’re well aware that if the proposition is that NZ wages are now too low to live on, the fact the govt is dishing out social welfare to those wage-earners is a point in support of the proposition, not a point against it. Are you just assuming your readers are too thick to notice that?

    [DPF: Umm you are the one too thick to realise that the state has always provided support to low income families, and only a moron would think that a single parent could ever earn enough to care for four children - unless you think the minimum wage should be $50 an hour.

    The minimum wage should be at a level to allow a single adult to live on it. It is not the mechanism you use to allow an adult to look after four kids. That is called targeted welfare which I support.]

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  8. bringbackdemocracy (427 comments) says:

    What it does show is that the Government should be encouraging two parent families, and abandon their anti-family, anti-marriage agenda.

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  9. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    I suggest that the journalist, TREVOR QUINN volunteer to cut his salary down to a minimum wage level and see if he still likes to sensationalize his stories.

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  10. CJPhoto (221 comments) says:

    YOu got to be joking! I would be very suprised if Peniata Senior provided any money to the family.

    Also, why did Ms Endermann have four kids, surely she knew she wouldn’t be able to raise them properly if she was only qualified to work as a cleaner.

    Anyway – I would love a universal child payment. There use to be one when I was a young kid. Mum use to save up that money for our annual trip to Australia to see the Relatives.

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  11. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    At least one actually exists, unlike David Shearers made up painter.

    Slick move Dave, lie to New Zealanders and assume they’re too stupid to check. There’s a vote winner.

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  12. b1gdaddynz (279 comments) says:

    I agree they seem to be bringing out these stories every other day but they never give you any context. I find it hard to judge what is going wrong when there isn’t any relevant income and expenditure information; is money being wasted somewhere? I find it hard to be sympathetic without this information and I find it to be appallingly poor journalism!
    When I hear about these stories I often wonder if they are claiming the transfers they are entitled to or if a budget advisor would be of greater help! Without any real information this story is a waste of time!

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  13. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    hmmokrightitis – I would a source a local CEO and pay them up to NZ$420,000.

    I sure there would a myriad of high quality applicants at that salary level. Furthermore, they would be more likely to be local and spend money in New Zealand, invest here, raise a family here, etc.

    I find the need to pay an overseas CEO NZ$5,000,000 a year obscene.

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  14. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    How can we tolerate a society where a CEO earns $5,000,000 a year…while the minimum wage remains at $13.50 per hour.

    Hamnida, the economy is not a zero-sum game. CEO remuneration and the minimum wage are not linked.

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  15. Brian Smaller (4,023 comments) says:

    Those articles – and there is one a day practically – should come with a note saying they are party political broadcasts on behalf of the Labour Party.

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  16. Brian Smaller (4,023 comments) says:

    It’s a well known fact 20% of New Zealand children live below the poverty line.

    No, it is a well known fact that that is a meaningless measure of nothing. Not one child in NZ is denied health care, 1st world education (according to labour and the teachers unions) and their parents get enough money and income from the state to feed them.

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  17. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    One week DPF is doing one-sided/not-the-whole story reporting on all things gay.
    The next week he complains about one-sided/not-the-whole story reporting.

    (Though I agree with DPF on this story).

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  18. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    How can we tolerate a society where a CEO earns $5,000,000 a year and gets tax cuts worth thousands of dollars per week, while the minimum wage remains at $13.50 per hour.

    With ease. It’s called capitalism.

    If you don’t like it, feel free to emigrate to a worker’s paradise free of inequalities (e.g., North Korea) and let’s see how long you last.

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  19. seanmaitland (500 comments) says:

    @Psyhco Milt – actually, you are completely wrong, and either being obtuse or haven’t even read the article.

    The article was all about how this boy has to work to keep his siblings in school – and DPF has pointed out that the article is being extremely generous with hiding the real facts.

    The article is not titled “Minimum wage not enough to survive in NZ”.

    So stop taking it off topic and actually debate what it is about. Additionally, it is an insulting article because there are families with far less who make a much better go of things, who would never even consider whinging to the press about how life isn’t fair. I know, because I grew up in such a situation, where we were left with 4 children under the age of 9 and no father, with our mother not having worked – and through our mother’s example and hard work, and not a single cent from the government, all 4 of us have grown up to be incredibly successful.

    The only thing insulting on here is your bleating.

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  20. Cunningham (844 comments) says:

    Psycho Milt point taken but you actually are completely off topic. We have a family complaining about how difficult it is yet (maybe so but how should we actually know) there are other circumstances that are never outlined by this article journalist. I wish we had more facts because all these articles do are provide no indication at all as to their actual situation so we get a warped view of it all. How are people supposed to truly understand poverty when they don’t get told all the facts???

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  21. Redbaiter (8,882 comments) says:

    TREVOR QUINN is not a journalist.

    He has been trained by a politically corrupt education system to be a political agent.

    He has been schooled to advocate for Progressivism.

    We haven’t had any real journalists graduate since the left took over the education system.

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  22. Grizz (605 comments) says:

    Hamnida, why have you come up with a figure of $420,000?

    Just out of curiosity, what would happen to the All Blacks or the NZ Warriors if that was the maximum you could pay the top players?

    What would happen to Peter Jackson, our top movie actors, musicians or artists if that was the maximum they could earn a year?

    I can understand the desire for SOE CEOs to not be overpaid, but when it is a prive company being paid private money (much of it earned overseas) why do you care how much the CEO earns?

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  23. Brian Marshall (202 comments) says:

    This week while reading my Dom Post I noticed several articles about poverty. All of them don’t have the reporters asking the hard questions I’d expect, like “would you be better off back in Samoa with your 4 kids?” to the imigrant family in yesterdays paper.
    Then on the radio yesterday I hear that there was a campagin to raise the minimium wage starting yesterday and I realise it was nothing short of propaganda, much like you have noted David.
    I even said to my better half I might stop buying the paper. The Dom Post has become some sort of socialist haven and it’s getting hard to swallow.

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  24. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    “It’s a well known fact 20% of New Zealand children live below the poverty line. ”

    Well, any poverty statistic that can be improved by making the population poorer is by definition misleading. And that statistic is misleading.

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  25. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    “How can we tolerate a society where a CEO earns $5,000,000 a year and gets tax cuts worth thousands of dollars per week, while the minimum wage remains at $13.50 per hour. ”

    By pointing out that the alternative involves shooting thousands of people and leaving the rest in perfectly equal grinding poverty.

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  26. Redbaiter (8,882 comments) says:

    Brian Marshall- don’t buy the Dominion Post. Don’t read it. Don’t advertise in it.

    Put the liberal media, one of the most destructive political forces in this country’s history, completely out of business.

    (believe me, without their unnecessary left wing bullshit clouding every issue, you’ll start thinking so much clearer)

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  27. tristanb (1,127 comments) says:

    It’s a well known fact 20% of New Zealand children live below the poverty line.

    The definition of poverty is “households earning under 60% of the median income”.

    So obviously, if we improved the economy and basically doubled everyone’s income, we’re not going to help the problem.

    The only way to fix poverty is to lower the median income – the most efficient way to do that is keep everyone poor. Obviously, thinking back to 3rd form maths, the median income is not affected by the very rich (‘mean income’ would be) so there is room for union leaders to make lots of money. And this is about income, so the Green voters who live of their large estates and don’t have to work are acceptable too.

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  28. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Grizz – I believe the CEOs salary is relevant. Such earners got a massive tax cut while 20% of New Zealand children live below the poverty line.

    I think he was the last person who should be getting a tax cut.

    The All Blacks and Warriors are not earning salaries at that level. Peter Jackson is a traitor of the working class.

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  29. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    Peter Jackson is a traitor of the working class.

    You can see the envy and smell the bile towards Peter Jackson from an individual that personifies mediocrity, who knows himself incapable of achieveing even modest objectives.

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  30. Griff (7,715 comments) says:

    CEO’s wages rise @ 10% YEARLY have been for decades and few on here see the problem
    are you all mathematically challenged?

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  31. tristanb (1,127 comments) says:

    Such earners got a massive tax cut while 20% of New Zealand children live below the poverty line.

    Why aren’t you giving all your money to people in the third world? You earn thousands times as much as them. You’re a greedy fatcat.

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  32. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    [DPF: Umm you are the one too thick to realise that the state has always provided support to low income families, and only a moron would think that a single parent could ever earn enough to care for four children - unless you think the minimum wage should be $50 an hour.

    The minimum wage should be at a level to allow a single adult to live on it. It is not the mechanism you use to allow an adult to look after four kids. That is called targeted welfare which I support.]

    Yes, the state has in modern times (not “always”) provided support to low-income families. It’s now providing support to the extent that low-paid workers receive social welfare payments that massively outweigh the income tax they pay. If you don’t believe that’s an argument for the proposition that wages have fallen too low, you’re a stranger to reason.

    So stop taking it off topic and actually debate what it is about.

    The article is about a family that can’t make ends meet due to low wages. Do you have problems with reading comprehension?

    How are people supposed to truly understand poverty when they don’t get told all the facts?

    It’s not hard. Have a look through your bank statements for the last year and note down your expenses. Figure out what you spent cash on and add that to the list. Now imagine you’re getting paid $13.85 an hour and try putting together a budget that includes the essential items on your list. Picture yourself living on it for the next couple of decades. Done.

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  33. Griff (7,715 comments) says:

    The poverty line is the same as my above post, for the mathematically challenged
    its defined as the lowest twenty percent of income so
    Its imposable to change a fucking statistic that is so defined
    unless you reduce all income to zero polpot style!!!

    one has CEO s earning all the moneys eventually the other has no one earning money eventually
    the extreme left and right are amazingly congruent they are both as stupid

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  34. kowtow (8,475 comments) says:

    A debate on immigration is sorely needed.

    Why import poverty?

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  35. Grizz (605 comments) says:

    Hamnida, I think you will find Richie McCaw and Dan Carter will be earning a lot more than $420,000 PA. SBW was rumoured to be on >$500,000PA. In the NRL, the top cats in each club could earning more than $800,000 PA, particularly when State of Origin and and internationals are taken into consideration. SBW is leaving NZ rugby because someone is prepared to pay him loads more than he is getting now. My only grudge with SBW is his choice of colour for his Ferrari. These guys get paid more than most CEOs of NZX listed public companies.

    As for CEO salaries, you are transfixed on the amount of tax they pay and the amount you think they should pay. Look at it another way, as CEOs pay tax at 33% and companies at 28%, then it is better for the CEOs to be paid more as the government gets more tax revenue.

    By the way, your attidude towards Peter Jackson reflects what is wrong with Socialists today. The hatred of success and excellence.

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  36. seanmaitland (500 comments) says:

    @Psycho Milt – you are still wrong – the article is about a family that has too many children for their income. It is nothing to do with the wages they are on.

    If they aren’t happy with their income, then they need to improve it or work harder.

    Arguing semantics, when you are already wrong just makes you look thick.

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  37. b1gdaddynz (279 comments) says:

    All the minimum wage should do is support a single adult; which it does! The minimum wage is not meant to support a family! If you want to have a big family then you need to plan for it by getting educated and getting a higher paying job. Employers are not obligated to pay for your children or any of your other life choices. You are an adult and you should be responsible for your self.

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  38. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    > it doesn’t matter how much you change how income is redistributed, 20% will always be below the line.

    Wrong. Come back to me when you’ve read the Children’s Commissioner’s report on poverty. Hint: income inequality has skyrocketed under National.

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  39. duggledog (1,557 comments) says:

    Cunningham ‘Yet so many people will read this and know nothing about the points made above’

    So many people will read the article and not give a shit. They will tut tut but that’s about all.

    The journalist should be looking for evidence of massive outgoings due to one of those dodgy lending institutions.

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  40. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    Ah ham, sadly I was stuck in the koru lounge and then on a flight, I missed your follow up. As the others have pointed out, the AB’s largely all earn more than youre $420k. Hell, there are 18 year olds in development squads earning $100K at the moment, and good on them.

    As a consultant, I earnt $500k plus turning organisations around

    As a company owner, not consulting, I earnt $200K, but generated around $5M of value into the NZ economy over 3 years

    And as a wage slave, I earn $150K

    Each with totally different risk profiles, and therefore rewards. Isnt that how it should be?

    And as for “Peter Jackson is a traitor of the working class” – How so? And define working class within the context of NZ, please.

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  41. Brian Smaller (4,023 comments) says:

    And as for “Peter Jackson is a traitor of the working class” – How so? And define working class within the context of NZ, please.

    In a NZ context that means union members, Labour politicians and beneficiaries.

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  42. Redbaiter (8,882 comments) says:

    The so called minimum wage is a political confidence trick.

    It does nothing to help NZ out of poverty.

    It is an illusion at the hands of political charlatans who seek to make the gullible believe they are needed.

    If the education system was working we wouldn’t have a minimum wage for a basic knowledge of mathematics is all one needs to understand that it is a complete and utter farce.

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  43. ChrisM (103 comments) says:

    As the names appear to be Pacific Island, the two critical pieces of information that people should know is how much are they remitting to their relatives still in the Islands, and how much are they titheing to the church. That is often the reason so many PIs are “poor”.

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  44. Grant (444 comments) says:

    Hey Handjob.
    I seem to recall you posting once that we should all earn the same salary, so given your comment copied below:

    “hmmokrightitis – I would a source a local CEO and pay them up to NZ$420,000. ”

    Can I assume you think we should all earn $420,000.00pa?

    What an economic genius you are. Not
    G

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  45. Liberal Minded Kiwi (1,571 comments) says:

    I want to know why Peter Jackson is a traitor. Give us a run down on that theory Hamida

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  46. Mark (496 comments) says:

    I wonder how much the family spend on non esstentials, if you cant support your family these days with all the welfare attached you must be a real retard.

    I would like a breakdown of their income and expenses, since they dont include them I must assume it all goes on tabacco, dope and beer.

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