General Debate 9 August 2012

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Pete George

Continued silence from Shearer on the caucus crapping on Cunliffe plus the Grey speech seems to have turning the blog tide from frustration and despair to anger. A party member’s resignation petition has been started – I doubt it will get legs but it’s indicative of the level of feeling – and even Red Alert is turning sour.

Is Shearer facing a Labour revolt?

Regardless of whether this spreads and grows or not it’s an awful look for Shearer’s leadership (or lack thereof).

And it’s a worrying sign for New Zealand politics, which needs a strong and credible opposition. It’s getting neither from Labour.
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August 9, 2012 8:02am
Lance

We are all just waiting with baited breath for the plethora of massive cut’n’pastes today about same sex marriage.
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August 9, 2012 8:09am
Still Here

I’m not, I wish we’d talk about the finical mess this country is in and how labour & National got us there.
Oh and how we can get out of it.
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August 9, 2012 8:17am
Brian Smaller

@Still Here – I agree. Who gives a rat’s arse about gay marriage when the country is borrowing about $300m a week just to pay the bills.
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August 9, 2012 8:26am
david

Lance, I don’t know what you have been eating but my breath will be “bated” if I hold it in wait for an event. Hope your bait catches your target species.
cheers
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August 9, 2012 8:30am
Fletch

Israel showing the respect it has for human life: even the life of it’s enemies –

The difference between Israel and the Palestinians has never been so starkly illustrated; four months ago the brother-in-law of Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh had a serious cardiac problem which could not be solved in Gaza. So what did Israel do? It sent a Magen Adom ambulance to the Erez crossing, picked the man up, and rushed him all the way to a Petah Tikvah hospital where he stayed for a week until his condition was stable again.

Haniyeh viciously attacks Israel every chance he gets; after the terror attack in Sinai on August 5 that killed 16 Egyptians, he joined with the Muslim Brotherhood and actually accused Israel of planning the attack, saying, “The attack’s method confirms some sort of Israeli involvement aiming to achieve political and security goals, cause tension on the border with Egypt and destroy joint efforts to end the Gaza blockade.”

Just today an Egyptian airstrike killed 20 terrorists in response to the attack.

At a rally to for the 23rd anniversary of Hamas, Haniyeh bellowed he would never recognize Israel:

There is no future for the occupation in Palestine. Palestine is from the sea to the river, from Rosh HaNikra to Rafah. The siege will not change our belief, wars don’t cause people give up resistance and resistance leaders. We will not recognize, We will not recognize, We will not recognize Israel!

In 2010, 180,000 Palestinians were treated in Israeli hospitals. It’s the nature of the Jewish state to treasure human life; Jewish history is replete with examples of Jewish doctors who have bequeathed a legacy of life-saving ideas that eased the misery of those who suffer. (See Salk, Jonas; Sabin, Albert; Ehrlich, Paul; among hundreds of others).

In contrast to the hate that spews out of Hamas, many Palestinians, Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood, Iran, and most of the Arab world, Israel is a beacon of light waiting for the hate and darkness around it to vanish. And despite its attempts to reach out, there are always those who call for its destruction.

True class.
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August 9, 2012 8:30am
hj

In a study for the Government in 2006, the Productivity Commission modelled a 50 per cent increase in the skilled migration program (an increase that eventuated in subsequent years.) That substantial increase in skilled migration was projected to yield an estimated gain in annual per capita income of just 0.7 per cent ($320) and only after 20 years. It was swamped by other, domestic drivers of productivity growth. Moreover, most of the aggregate gain accrued to migrants themselves — the average incomes of the population existing in ‘year zero’ actually declined slightly.
The finding that the effects are generally small is similar to that of previous studies, both here and overseas. There are two, commonsense, reasons for it:
First, the ‘flow’ of (extra) migrants is small relative to the ‘stock’ of the existing population and labour force.
Second, the forces that determine the effects on the incomes of the existing population often offset each other, and some of the effects wash out in the long run.
It is also a fallacy that higher immigration counteracts population ageing. Beyond an annual immigration level of around 100 000 people, the demographic benefits have been shown to diminish greatly, with migrants impacting much more on the size of the population than on its age structure. The main reason is that migrants age too! We would need to bring in increasingly more of them to ‘backfill’ the age structure over time. Indeed, the Commission calculated that to preserve the current age profile of the population, the immigration-to-population ratio would need to rise to three per cent (triple its peak of 2008-9). This would make Australia a population ‘super-power’ of 100+ million people by mid-century!
http://www.pc.gov.au/research/conference-proceedings/sustainable-population
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August 9, 2012 8:45am
Nookin

I wonder when we will get a headline commending effort rather than bemoaning a loss? For the record – the women’s hockey team performed beyond expectations and should be applauded for their achievement. They have punched above their weight. Good luck to them in the bronze medal match. For my part, they have justified their place.
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August 9, 2012 8:56am
Pete George

For the record – the women’s hockey team performed beyond expectations and should be applauded for their achievement. They have punched above their weight. Good luck to them in the bronze medal match. For my part, they have justified their place.

I agree entirely, this has been a great effort by them. So far. They still have a chance to do more.
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August 9, 2012 9:04am
hmmokrightitis

+ 1 nookin. The Dutch were always going to be a huge ask, and they did really really well against them. Hope they can lift again for the bronze, they deserve it.

The men on the other hand, meh. To throw that much of advantage against Germany sums their tournament up nicely. They should have nailed Nice Korea, and anything after that was bonus. They have really struggled. Patches of brilliance shine through the general gloom. Getting 5 against Germany, and still not winning, WTF??
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August 9, 2012 9:08am
graham

The women’s Black Sticks have been outstanding! I don’t think anyone gave them a serious chance, yet they won three of their pool matches, drew one (with Germany) and lost just one to Argentina (who have just beaten Great Britain, thus meaning they will compete with the Netherlands for the gold).

My family got up at 2.20 this morning to watch the semi-final against the Netherlands. A fantastic match against the world number ones, and we held them to a 2-2 draw even after extra time. No other team has done that in this tournament – the Netherlands have won every one of their matches until they met us. A shame that Katie Glynn collected a hockey stick across the head, but she showed her guts in coming back on near the end with her head in bandages.

Bring on Saturday morning our time, when we play Great Britain for the bronze. The first time ever they have made the semi-finals, and you would have to say based on their form to date they are a serious contender for the bronze.
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August 9, 2012 9:13am
MT_Tinman

Lance, if you don’t like it don’t f@#$ing read it!

It’s not compulsary – even a halfwit bloody communist wanna-be should be able to figure that out.
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August 9, 2012 9:16am
graham

The hockey stick hitting Katie Glynn’s head was pretty nasty to watch. In case you missed it:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/hockey/7444124/Injured-Black-Sticks-head-and-heart-hurt

Blood shows up quite well on blonde hair …
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August 9, 2012 9:25am
SGA

Well, the hockey men have been busy helping with security at the games, so that’s probably a factor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJPtZ7m9cCQ

Well done Lauren Boyle in the 800m women’s freestyle, as well. Not a medal, but a gutsy 4th – a PB that shaved 3 seconds off her semi-final time, and set a new Oceania record (the only women’s record not currently held by an Australian – just to put things in perspective). Justified her place.
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August 9, 2012 9:31am
Keeping Stock

Forget the battle between Left and Right; watching the Labour Party Civil War of 2012 is far more fun! There’s even an online petition now calling for Shearer’s head that only NZLP members are invited to sign!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/revolt-in-labour-party.html
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August 9, 2012 9:33am
Paulus

Great to see Helen MkII in the Herald. Whole back page article.
Labour will welcome Kelly into Parliament asap when Annette King goes in 2014, or before, to let Helen MkII in to tackle the leadership election.
Labour under the new rules, designed by her and her Union ilk, can possibly change leaders even if Shearer wins the Labour/Greens/Winston coalition position.
Little little cannot hold a candle to Helen MkII.
She may not have Helen MkI’s brains or killer skills, but few have, but she can take Labour back to its real left wing worker’s routes, which Shearer/Roberston/Cunliffe can never do.
They have no Union backing or affiliations, whereas Kelly is all Union.
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August 9, 2012 9:35am
Keeping Stock

@ Paulus – you mean Helen the Hobbit-hater? I can’t imagine that she will go down too well in Miramar…
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August 9, 2012 9:38am
Nookin

I think that the Blacksticks watched too much of the Warriors and not enough of the Chiefs and the Magic
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August 9, 2012 9:45am
Komata

And Helen 2’s educational background is?
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August 9, 2012 9:45am
hmmokrightitis

I did like the skewing of facts from HK – 22% of NZ’ers are union members, thats 1 in 4. Ah, I call bullshit Helen. Maybe 22% of working people, yes. But dont let facts get in the way of your story honey. And thats declined from, and continuing to decline to???
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August 9, 2012 9:54am
David Garrett

KS: Absolutely! The more the filthy socialists indulge in internecine fighting the better for the rest of us…perhaps we might even be looking at “New Labour Mk II” a la Jim Anderton?

Nothing like vicious infighting to destroy a political party…I know, I was there!

Hmmo: I would guess 75% of the workforce was unionized 30 years ago?
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August 9, 2012 10:01am
kowtow

Forget the battle between left and right……

that’s about right,the left have won,it’s now embedded in our every day thinking and discourse.
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August 9, 2012 10:23am
David Garrett

kowtow: When I finally worked out what you were saying, I agree…
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August 9, 2012 10:30am
Lance

@Tinman

“even a halfwit bloody communist wanna-be should be able to figure that out”

Oh dear, anybody that writes anything Tinman doesn’t agree with is labelled thus.

Nice, class act
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August 9, 2012 10:35am
Pete George

DG – do you think Don Brash might spot a new takeover opportunity? He could make his 15% with that one.
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August 9, 2012 10:35am
David Garrett

PG: What, the New New Labour Party?

Amusing prospect…but I think the good Doctor’s time in politics is done..perhaps Muldoon knew something, when he opposed him standing in East Coast Bays all those years ago…
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August 9, 2012 10:52am
Keeping Stock

@ Pete; why not. He could become a three-time loser!
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August 9, 2012 10:54am
Andrei

Of course the Labour party is in disarray, it is hardly surprising since the National Party has outflanked them – on the left.
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August 9, 2012 11:06am
Pete George

A Stuff poll: Who would be the best leader for Labour?

D Shearer 21.0%
D Cunliffe 19.3%
G Robertson 7.1%
D Parker 2.9%
A Little 3.8%
S Jones 8.0%
S Else 37.8%

Sort of sums up one of their biggest problems.
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August 9, 2012 11:24am
Colville

PG @ 11.24
Hulun would have scored 50% of the vote if she had been on that list.
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August 9, 2012 12:31pm
Colville

Did I break the internet with that comment? WTF! an hour and a half with no comments?
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August 9, 2012 2:09pm
Pete George

Colville – unbroken. Even now Clark probably would have. Even Lange may have done better than what is there.

Cunliffe (23.3%) is now leading Shearer (19.3), but the number of votes are very low. The poll is about as popular as the polis.

It’s a pity they can’t count A Pathy.
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August 9, 2012 2:23pm
Lucia Maria

I have a question for all the sporty people here. I need help!

My youngest boy has to dress up in an Olympic country’s colours tomorrow (not NZ).

How do you know what a country’s colours are?? Are they the flag colours?
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August 9, 2012 2:38pm
Colville

Lucia, NZs colour is black..and that aint out flags colour…
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August 9, 2012 3:04pm
HB

Australia wears green and gold also.
Perhaps look at team photos on google images?
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August 9, 2012 3:06pm
cha

What in the world did we do before wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_colours#National_colours
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August 9, 2012 3:08pm
Pete George

Lucia Maria – all competing countries and flags: http://www.london2012.com/countries/

You can also see details of each country which should show some of athletes wearing their kit.

Countries vary their colours and how they use them. Remember the cricke beige.

Russia have a red pattern on their gear this time.
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August 9, 2012 3:16pm
103PapPap

My understanding is that Australia are going to change their colours to Silver and Bronze.
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August 9, 2012 3:17pm
kowtow

papthetic.
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August 9, 2012 3:24pm
Manolo

Exhibitionism seems to be the norm; http://health.msn.co.nz/healthnews/8513439/are-only-psychopaths-not-on-facebook
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August 9, 2012 3:55pm
Lucia Maria

Pete, thanks!

Colville, yeah. I wonder where the black came from?

I think I’m just going to have to assume the colours that the competitors tend to wear. Black would be easy, but he’s not allowed to do NZ. So, he’s chosen Poland, and they appear to be red and white (the colours of their flag), so we’ll go with that.
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August 9, 2012 4:09pm
Nookin

Has anyone been following this?

From what I have seen Mr Reay is not a particularly convincing witness and CCC may well have some questions to answer.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7447863/CTV-columns-did-not-comply-with-code
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August 9, 2012 4:41pm
chiz

Personally I’m amazed at the large number of people who suddenly seem to have realised that they had little personal involvement in the construction of the CTV building. Most of the work seems to have done by Someone Else.
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August 9, 2012 5:39pm
Longknives

Some enlightening stuff from the Mana Party-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6gavA4zXbFw/UCM7IMjjQvI/AAAAAAAANCI/qiR1wmZ3SkQ/s1600/MANA%2BScorecard.jpg

Apparently Maori earn less than Non- Maori “even when doing the same job”.
Got any facts/examples to back this up??
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August 9, 2012 6:01pm
Steve (North Shore)

chiz,
“Personally I’m amazed at the large number of people who suddenly seem to have realised that they had little personal involvement in the construction of the CTV building. Most of the work seems to have done by Someone Else”

Just who is this ‘Someone Else”? Why do they use a pseudonym instead of their real name? Someone Else is all over the place.
It it the same person the Media call ‘unknown source’ or ‘a spokesperson’?

Identify yourself “Someone Else” or I’m gonna get WhaleOil onto you
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August 9, 2012 6:49pm
nasska

~Of course no one in the USA administration thinks like this……after all space research is pure science.~

Ref: http://imgur.com/gallery/KBh2C
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August 9, 2012 6:54pm
hmmokrightitis

JK chosing his son over funerals of two NZ soldiers. Wow, big call. Doesnt sit right me.
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August 9, 2012 7:09pm
Keeping Stock

@ hmmokrightitis – from Murray Hill on FB:

Murray Hill
Were I still serving and deployed to a combat zone my “in the event of” instructions would include the very specific words “No politicans are permitted to attend my funeral under any circumstances”.

My day, my family and mates, not a photo op.

The PM’s decision to deal with the families privately and directly before traveling to the US on a planned trip is entirely apropriate. It is not disrepectful, it is not the smoking gun evidence that he is not fit to be PM and he did NOT put them there.

Both men were volunteers carrying out a mssion set some years ago by the cabinet of the previous government. No New Zealand PM has the power to “order” any servicemen to do anything, they are not in the chain of command, he is not the “Commander in Chief”.

Anyone who attempts to make political milage out of John Key not making their funerals into a photo op is a vulture possesing no respect themselves. I point the finger first and foremost at the media who are attempting to sell stories and have already forgotten two men lost their lives in the service of their country and others were wounded.

Let me know if you disagree, I have too many people on my friends list.

Seems like a pretty fair assessment to me.
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August 9, 2012 7:16pm
hmmokrightitis

Thanks for that KS, makes huge sense. Should have known the media would give half the story and not “The PM’s decision to deal with the families privately and directly before traveling to the US on a planned trip is entirely appropriate.” which of course would have made it a non story.
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August 9, 2012 7:18pm
nasska

A woman went up to the bar in a quiet rural pub.

She gestured alluringly to the bartender, who immediately approached her.

She seductively signaled that he should bring his face closer to hers, and as he did, she gently caressed his full beard.

‘Are you the manager?’ she asked, softly, stroking his face with both hands. ‘Actually, no,’ he replied.

‘Can you get him for me? I need to speak to him,’ she said, running her hands beyond his beard and into his hair.

‘I’m afraid I can’t,’ breathed the bartender. ‘Is there anything I can do?’

‘Yes. I need you to give him a message,’ she continued, running her forefinger across the bartender’s lip and slyly popping a couple of her fingers into his mouth and allowing him to suck them gently.

‘What should I tell him?’ the bartender managed to say.

‘Tell him,’ she whispered, ‘there’s no toilet paper, hand soap, or paper towels in the Ladies Room.
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August 9, 2012 8:00pm
Viking2

Thought from the Greatest Living Scottish Thinker–Billy Connolly.

“If women are so perfect at multitasking,
How come they can’t have a headache and sex at the same time?”
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August 9, 2012 8:08pm
Viking2

COWS, CALVES: NEVER BRED.
Also 1 gay bull for sale.
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August 9, 2012 8:09pm
Viking2

FREE PUPPIES
1/2 Cocker Spaniel, 1/2 sneaky neighbor’s dog.

FREE PUPPIES.
Mother is a Kennel Club registered German Shepherd.
Father is a Super Dog, able to leap tall fences in a single bound.
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August 9, 2012 8:10pm
Viking2

Grandpa’s Drink
There was a family gathering, with all generations around the table.
Mischievous teenagers put a Viagra tablet into Grandpa’s drink, and after a while,
Grandpa excused himself because he had to go to the bathroom.

When he returned, however, his trousers are wet all over.
‘What happened, Grandpa? He is asked by his concerned children.

‘Well,’ he answered, ‘I don’t really know. I had to go to the bathroom.
So I took it out and started to pee, but then I saw that it wasn’t mine, so I put it back!’
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August 9, 2012 8:11pm
Viking2

A girl realized that she had grown hair between her legs. She got worried and asked her mom about that hair.

Her mom calmly said- “that part where hair has grown is called Monkey, be proud that your monkey has grown hair”

the girl smiled. At dinner, she told her sister-“my monkey has grown hair”

Her sister smiled and said-“that’s nothing, mine is already eating bananas” .

Mom fainted…
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August 9, 2012 8:15pm
nasska

I said to my mate, “I watched the Olympic Weightlifting Competition.”

He said, “The men’s or women’s?”

I said, “I haven’t got a fucking clue.”
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August 9, 2012 8:15pm
kowtow

Saw TV3 run that story on Key not going to the funeral. I don’t particularly like Key,but TV3 did not need to run the story.I reckon the editor is some kind of shit head stirrer. THe PM will be there,it just won’t be Key.

Mind you I don’t like Key saying it’s OK for us to pay for Maori elites to take cases to court that I have to pay for,over and over and over again and call it justice!

If they want to go to court let them pay.
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August 9, 2012 8:18pm
nasska

Paddy goes to America for the first time, walking up 5th. Avenue. He sees a building on fire and rushes over to see people stuck at the fourth floor windows.

He shouts up, “Oi’m Paddy-John Dara O’Neill, the Oirish rugby player! Jump and oi’ll catch ye’s.”

A girl jumps out and Paddy catches her; a guy jumps and Paddy gets him too. Then a black guy jumps and Paddy lets him hit the concrete, then shouts up, “Come on now folks, there’s no point t’rowin down the burnt ones!!
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August 9, 2012 8:22pm
Viking2

Following Aircraft, especially when friends are flying ….

RADAR: something impressive to keep you amused and interested

Go to http://www.flightradar24.com/

and then move your cursor to the country, area, city, suburb, street …..

and you will see which flights are currently passing over.

Refreshed every 10 seconds, and if you hover over the flight and click on
it, you will see (LHS) a photo of the aircraft, flight number, airports of
departure and destination, the height and speed!

And if it is not too cold, you can go outside and actually see the plane!

Great fun- and informative.

Yep really does work
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August 9, 2012 8:22pm
Viking2

A new pastor was visiting the homes of his parishioners. At one house it seemed obvious that someone was at home, but no answer came to his repeated knocks at the door. So he took out a business card and wrote ‘Revelation 3:20’ on the back of it and stuck it in the door.

When the offering was processed the following Sunday, he found that his card had been returned. Added to it was this cryptic message, ‘Genesis 3:10..’ Reaching for his Bible to check out the quotation, he broke up in gales of laughter.

Revelation 3:20 begins ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock.’ Genesis 3:10 reads, ‘I heard your voice in the garden and I was afraid for I was naked.’
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August 9, 2012 8:24pm
nasska

You wouldn’t steal a car……
You wouldn’t steal a film……

So why download a movie?

Because I don’t like getting shot at whilst eating popcorn.
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August 9, 2012 8:30pm
Griff

Following Aircraft Fascinating v2

Same thing for boats
http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/
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August 9, 2012 8:32pm
Pauleastbay

V2 and Griff lovin’ it – ta
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August 9, 2012 8:33pm
Viking2

I want one of these.

http://screencast.com/t/1984w2rp6
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August 9, 2012 8:46pm

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