Herald on charter schools

August 3rd, 2012 at 12:14 pm by David Farrar

The Herald editorial:

The announcement yesterday of the framework for this country’s model for did nothing to quell the indignation of opponents. Indeed, they were supplied with new information to fuel their opposition, most notably the fact that – or partnership schools, as the Government wants them to be known – will be able to employ teachers without qualifications.

“You wouldn’t let an untrained doctor treat your child, or let anyone design your house,” retorted Labour’s education spokeswoman, Nanaia Mahuta. She would have been better served to save criticism for other, more questionable aspects of the framework.

Unlike public schools which children are forced to go to, because they live nearby, no child will be forced to go to a charter school, against their parents wishes. Parents will weigh up if they think the teaching quality is good enough.

A university has said it is interested in running charter schools. Technically university lecturers are not qualified teachers. Are we saying that a maths lecturer could not also teach some maths classes at school?

If an All Black was willing to do a couple of PE sessions every week, would you turn that down?

Basically you have to judge each school’s use of non “qualified” staff on an individual basis.

I like the fact that charter schools will have to accept every pupil who applies, so no cherry picking. And if more applications than places, then random ballots will be used.

I’m willing to bet that more than a few charter schools will have to use ballots, as there will be so many applications.

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50 Responses to “Herald on charter schools”

  1. Brad (75 comments) says:

    I bet Brian and Hannah Tamaki will be champing at the bit to teach some classes at their charter school

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  2. Pete George (23,479 comments) says:

    The left on Charter Schools: National’s three D’s – Deliberate Dumbing Down

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  3. rg (210 comments) says:

    This is why we need Party’s like ACT, a conservative National Government would not be this innovative. It is a pity ACT didn’t get a few more MP’s this country could be going somewhere.

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  4. RRM (9,836 comments) says:

    Just because I love to nit-pick:

    DPF:
    A university has said it is interested in running charter schools. Technically university lecturers are not qualified teachers. Are we saying that a maths lecturer could not also teach some maths classes at school?

    I wouldn’t necessarily want any old university lecturer trying to teach school children mathematics. Some university lecturers are awful teachers, who just want to do their research and resent having to teach undergrad kids they can’t identify with. As surely you know?

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  5. CJPhoto (219 comments) says:

    Not using ‘qualified’ teachers is fine if the teacher has suitable experience. Simple accreditation should be gained though as well as maybe a quick course on teaching skills.

    So your All Black may be experienced to teach PE but not any other subject. Likewise your Uni lecturer in their specific area and god forbid, Brian Tamaki may be qualified to teach Religious studies but not anything else.

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  6. Pete George (23,479 comments) says:

    RRM – some kids are awful pupils and resent being taught by qualified teachers. I don’t know if what Government is proposing will work well or not, but a sizable chunk of our education wasn’t working well (using qualified teachers). Something different needs to be tried.

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  7. Scott (1,780 comments) says:

    I like the idea of charter schools. I thought it was an interesting idea from this current government. I know many people are dissatisfied with some aspects of our education system. For example as a parent, for many years I have been frustrated with the reporting and assessment system for my children. The School report seemed to be very hard to understand, with a variety of assessment systems for different subjects, and no real indication as to how your child is doing.

    So any school that for example wanted to go back to clear school reports with A, B and C or 1 – 5 would be worthy of consideration as far as I’m concerned.

    The media have been very important here in giving a consistently negative view of this innovation. Yesterday on the TV news they talked about destiny church running a charter school, some transcendental meditation group running a charter school and the lack of qualified teachers in charter schools. They didn’t find anyone who was in favour of the proposal.
    Now this may be that most of New Zealand hates the idea. Or it could be the left-wing bias of most of our media outlets.

    I am with DPF on this one. I suspect there are many charter schools that will need to limit their rolls because of high demand for places in their schools. It’s an idea that is worth a try in my opinion.

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  8. gump (1,635 comments) says:

    I think it would depend on which particular All Black was taking the PE lesson.

    At least one former All Black has been convicted of kiddie fiddling, and others have convictions for violence against children.

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  9. Deborah (156 comments) says:

    If an All Black was willing to do a couple of PE sessions every week, would you turn that down?

    Yes. A few specialist sessions during the school rugby season would be great, but otherwise, it limits the sports education for children who don’t play rugby.

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  10. PaulL (5,971 comments) says:

    I think the point is not that _every_ All Black, or _every_ university lecturer would be great teachers. But surely you’d agree that _some_ university lecturers (who may be unqualified), and _some_ All Blacks, would make great teachers. And despite them being unqualified, parents could make a decision for themselves as to whether they’re happy with it.

    As for violence and kiddy fiddling, I’m not sure that the teacher qualification process prevents that.

    One of the problems with NZ today is that we try to make everything impossible. It’s very difficult to be innovative if at every turn people have some rule that is made for the lowest common denominator. My real question here is why we wouldn’t trust the school principal to decide who they get to teach what. Do we really need a rule that says they have to be qualified teachers, or is it simple logic that a principal could decide what circumstances they want a qualified teacher for and what they don’t? And then the results from that could be measured, and parents could decide whether to send their kids there? What would actually be wrong with that – other than the legions of bureaucrats who would be out of a job?

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  11. Grendel (996 comments) says:

    bloody hell Deborah, dont be so narrow minded. do you think the all black would only be doing rugby? or general fitness. i imagine the ex all black can offer a lot of wisdom about fitness in general.

    and at the ages of 8-10 does it matter what they are doing as long as they are running around.

    as an example of the benefit of a skilled athlete for anyone:

    My karate club had a former Mixed martial arts professional (cage fighter before UFC became big), come to our dojo while he was on holiday and do some classes on grappling, which is not a key part of karate but good fun.

    on his last day he also did a session with the tennis academy kids we share the area with. he did nothing on grappling but focused on staying fit, focus and motivation, food and all the other things an aspiring professional athlete could learn from.

    tennis as a sport has nothing to do with mixed martial arts, but the kids loved it and found it extremely useful.

    i cannot see how an expert in something teaching at a charter school could not do the same.

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  12. Grendel (996 comments) says:

    one reason the unions etc dont like the idea of ‘unqualified’ teachers teaching is that it opens them up to competition which could drive their wages down.

    incumbents always like more regulation, becuase they tend to get grandparented in or have time to adjust. but it raises the barriers to entry for newcomers, which helps entrench the encumbents jobs.

    back in 96/97 when i was doing teachers payroll you were allowed to have people teaching without a diploma of teaching, so i would have former cops, former army people, and other professions taking up teaching later in life. there is no way these people had nothing to offer (no guarantee they could actually teach, but i can say the same for plenty of ‘qualified’ teachers). now they got paid a lot less and had a lower maximum rate but they could actually teach, and the schools loved getting these people in (esp in the smaller rural areas like ruatoki).

    Now i, with my years of experience in finance, and financial planning cannot teach economics or budgeting etc at school without getting even more qualifications and making sure i understand the principles of the treaty, despite being more qualified that some of the teachers (and i teach teachers how to sort their money out).

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  13. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    and you can bet if it was Maori charter school in the Waikato, Mahuta would line all her useless up for a job. Certificate or not so long as the gravy poured that would be just fine.
    Te Reo Tainui anyone.

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  14. Scott1 (528 comments) says:

    Our education system isnt perfect but it is nonsense to say it isn’t working, the fact that most of us can read this blog is evidence that it at least somewhat works and you could design a system that does much worse.

    I heard a few of the places that are looking to do charter schools and they tried to use destiny church as one to scare people. seemed to me they are the one group that will probably do it pretty well, beyond that however it sounds pretty loose as stated – like it could allow for all sorts of corruption, and government funding of things the government will be very embarrassed to be funding.

    Will they have apropriate controls to ensure that doesnt happen? Im a little concerned that it will be somthing national sees as just having to work, regardless of what actually is the outcomes —> and conversely, if labour gets elected, somthing that has to fail. Either way….

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  15. Alan Wilkinson (1,871 comments) says:

    There seem to be plenty of registered teachers who don’t know English grammar, can’t spell and probably aren’t too hot at maths.

    I’ve always held the view that teaching should be a part-time profession so that teachers can bring real life experience to it – just as University lecturers are expected to do research.

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  16. Scott1 (528 comments) says:

    BTW I do also agree with grendel about how teaching degrees do teach things that arent really required and that non teachers can teach. But it seems silly to build a entirely new system to get around the real issue which, by the sounds of it, could be resolved by just going back to how it was.

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  17. YesWeDid (1,048 comments) says:

    A couple of months ago the government was going to increase class sizes and use the money saved for professional development of teachers and this was in addition to requiring all teachers to be degree qualified.

    Now they are going to set up schools where you don’t even need to be a qualified teacher to teach.

    So how does that logic work?

    DPF, you love quoting Hattie, didn’t he say the most important thing is the quality of the teacher? But now the government has decided that anyone can have a go at being a teacher?

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  18. PaulL (5,971 comments) says:

    YesWeDid: and if anyone can be a teacher, then the pool could be much larger. And it might be easier to find people who are good. Just because anyone _can_ be a teacher doesn’t mean everybody _will_. Presumably the employer will still exercise some discretion over quality – the change here is that the school decides based on the individual in front of them, rather than some shiny bum in Wellington based on a rule or standard.

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  19. dime (9,856 comments) says:

    “But now the government has decided that anyone can have a go at being a teacher?”

    Just the anyone can have a go at doing a ton of other jobs.

    Im over this whole teacher is a profession bullshit. High school teachers do a year at uni after a degree? wow. a whole year. two 13 week semesters. Thats some real challenging shit!

    I suspect these “unqualified” teachers will go through an interview process. They wont be guaranteed a job or go into a ballot! Maybe, just maybe they will employ the right people. Ya know, like what happens in the real world.

    “Yes. A few specialist sessions during the school rugby season would be great, but otherwise, it limits the sports education for children who don’t play rugby.”

    lmao really? it would be much better to have some drop kick PE teacher doing as few sessions that a professional athlete. Honest.

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  20. YesWeDid (1,048 comments) says:

    ‘I suspect these “unqualified” teachers will go through an interview process. They wont be guaranteed a job or go into a ballot! Maybe, just maybe they will employ the right people. Ya know, like what happens in the real world.’

    What happens in the ‘real world’ is you get what you pay for, the unqualified teacher positions will clearly be at a lower pay rate than qualified positions.

    Good luck with the idea of paying less and getting a better quality result because in the ‘real world’ the exact opposite happens.

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  21. PaulL (5,971 comments) says:

    YesWeDid: ” the unqualified teacher positions will clearly be at a lower pay rate than qualified positions”

    Where is that clear?

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  22. dime (9,856 comments) says:

    how do you know they will be paying less?

    if its set up by a Uni and they have lecturers coming in, maybe they will be paid more.

    haters gotta hate!

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  23. trout (937 comments) says:

    There is a brand new State School down Tauranga way that has been open a short time. Many teachers applied for starting positions; only the few that identified with ‘new systems’ being established by the Principal got work. Problem is kids are bailing out in droves; even Board member’s kids want out. Neighbouring School is having to ballot entry because of the influx of ‘asylum seekers’. Parents are sick and tired of being told by teachers what is best for their children. So State Schools all have Registered teachers; unfortunately Registration does not confer competence.

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  24. YesWeDid (1,048 comments) says:

    @PaulL & dime – why else would the government be proposing to use unqualified staff? Honestly are you that naive?

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  25. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    I like the idea of academia losing its monopoly on education. The knowledge we need to lead successful happy lives is never more than a few clicks away, and the wisdom to apply that knowledge is available from friends, family, experts from all over the world. Have a read of Stop Stealing Dreams by Seth Godin:

    The economy has changed, probably forever.

    School hasn’t.

    School was invented to create a constant stream of compliant factory workers to the growing businesses of the 1900s. It continues to do an excellent job at achieving this goal, but it’s not a goal we need to achieve any longer.

    In this 30,000 word manifesto, I imagine a different set of goals and start (I hope) a discussion about how we can reach them. One thing is certain: if we keep doing what we’ve been doing, we’re going to keep getting what we’ve been getting.

    Our kids are too important to sacrifice to the status quo.

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  26. PaulL (5,971 comments) says:

    YesWeDid: because a number of people who could be great candidates for teaching are currently ineligible. The current system is inflexible. You cannot employ a teacher aide who isn’t qualified. You cannot employ a PE teacher who isn’t qualified. There is no room for choice and tradeoffs, and no room to bring in expertise that doesn’t exactly fit the pattern the bureaucrats have defined.

    Frankly, I expect some of this is about cost saving in areas where it has no impact on educational quality. But the point is that you assume that all of it must be that, and assume that any change must automatically be bad. We’re stifling innovation, and as a country we’re going to back slide because of that. You have no good reason to support that stifling other than “all change must be bad”.

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  27. dime (9,856 comments) says:

    YesWeDid – are you a lefty?

    its all about money wah wah wah

    maybe they are trying something new that they think can work. god forbid it works out well for kids at the expense of a union.

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  28. Tauhei Notts (1,692 comments) says:

    Anybody remember the good old days when Labour looked after the poor and the tories catered for the rich?
    The rich have always had the advantage of choice in education. They could always afford to send their children to a particular school.
    Now, with charter schools, the poor also have choice. Choice is no longer restricted to the wealthy.
    And was it the poor man’s friend that brought about this situation?
    No way.
    It was the rich man’s party.
    Labour seem to be positioning themselves far away from good hard working New Zealanders. Okay, close to unionists and homosexuals, but quite some distance from “Waitakere Man”.

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  29. dime (9,856 comments) says:

    Tauhei – exactly.

    Pisses me off how the left think they have a monopoly on caring about people. “youre rich, you must have done something bad to get there”.

    Reality is – we look for practical solutions. not solutions based on flawed ideology

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  30. mpledger (425 comments) says:

    DPF says
    I like the fact that charter schools will have to accept every pupil who applies, so no cherry picking. And if more applications than places, then random ballots will be used.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    A new report coming out in America shows that charter schools put up large barriers to entry in order to weed out the less motivated and less able parents making a mockery of school choise and equal opportunity (given that charters are funded by tax dollars so everyone should get a fair go).

    ‘Significant barriers to entry’ at many Philadelphia charters
    In at least one case, an unidentified charter made its enrollment application publicly available on only one day during the year. Another unnamed charter required applicants to complete an 11-page application, write an essay, respond to 20 short-answer questions, provide three recommendations, be interviewed, and provide records related to their disciplinary history, citizenship and disability status.

    “The District does not believe this is a fair system, nor does it help build a robust system of school-choice,” wrote District spokesperson Fernando Gallard …
    [ http://thenotebook.org/blog/125042/significant-barriers-entry-many-philadelphia-charter-schools-says-district-report ]

    ~~~~~~~

    And if NZ charters use the same tactics as American charters they’ll make the parents sign onerous behaviour contracts so that at any sign of trouble (i.e. failing a test) they can find a way to “councel out” a student.

    In NZ there should be a penalty applied to charters for students who leave the school, apart from progressing, so that the State system is not unfairly burdened. Otherwise the State system will end up with a much higher proportion of ESL, learning disabled, disabled and kids with behavioural problems which will in turn favour people’s opinion of charter schools.

    It’s like the medical system here – the private hospitals only take the easy cases and anything too hard gets shunted into the public system.

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  31. grumpyoldhori (2,362 comments) says:

    Fuck, we will have the destiny mob running secondary charter schools with the kids being told Maths, Physics, Chemistry, all the knowledge you need is in the book of fairy tales.
    Have some dumb hori who left school at fifteen teaching high level Maths, yep that will work, no maths degree, no teaching certificate

    Charter schools will not fucken work if the kids are living in crap homes, they need to be taken out of any shit environment so they can flourish, for that we need GOOD boarding schools.

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  32. backster (2,152 comments) says:

    Following World War 2 many of a schools teachers were unqualified. They were put through a pressure course on their return and then placed in the schools. As they had had a proper disciplined education and subsequent life experience, they tended to be excellent tutors.
    I think if Destiny Church get a charter they will be successful, their tutors will be motivated, will instill Christian Values and discipline. That will go a long way to teaching to read and write and to differentiate between right and wrong, which is mainly what the reform is about.
    There used to be a Mormon College in Hamilton, it took tough maori kids off the street and turned out well rounded, well educated graduates. I worked in Hamilton at the time and played rugby against them for several years. Most of their tutors were Americans who I doubt had teacher qualification.

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  33. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    First point. Currently secondary schools can use unqualified teachers now. They generally dont because the unions kick up shit.

    second – if the union and principals arguement is right – then why isnt Air NZ managed by a pilot? (or a ticketing agent or a hostess…) Or why arent prisons run by prisoners? (ok – some the guards should be on the otherside – but theyre not) etc, etc.

    Charter schools will be a very welcome change – or experiment. One things for sure – currently the teacher unions and pricipals only want to continue with the failed system we have now – which each year puts out up to 20% who cannot read or write.
    I think its imoral for the teacher unions and the principals not to try something new. And i hope that if charter schools even partly work – that someone sues the teacher unions for blocking progress and dis-advantaging an identifiable group of students.

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  34. torro (14 comments) says:

    They work OK in New York..
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443343704577550781938901886.html

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  35. rolla_fxgt (311 comments) says:

    @ Trout yes very aware of that school in papamoa, even some of the teachers are leaving or wanting to leave, they hate that the kids hate it.

    Schools already employ unqualified teachers, there’s a school in Dunedin that hired an ex army guy to run their services academy who by all accounts gets resluts, and has even turned some kids lives around, so much that they can reintergrate in mainstream classes, and achieve NCEA, and generally become productive members of society.

    My better half is a teacher, and her school employs a qualified chef to teach one senior food class once a week to teach them some skills, such as pastry work etc.

    Surely employing the best person for the job regardless of wheter they have a teaching qualification is what is important. After all there are some teachers who have qualifications who are useless at teaching, and couldn’t pass on knowledge if their life depended on it.

    Also loved how the NZEI compared teaching to doctors. Like its an equal comparison. Reeks of self importance if you ask me!

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  36. Geoff (10 comments) says:

    I have a very simple solution to the question of whether we have charter schools. Epsom voted for charter schools. No other electorate did. Try the experiment on the children of the parents who voted for it.

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  37. publicwatchdog (2,516 comments) says:

    In case you missed these FACTS about ACT and their post-election Charter Schools policy?

    BEFORE THE 2011 ELECTION – ACT DO NOT MENTION CHARTER SCHOOLS IN THEIR EDUCATION POLICY.

    http://www.act.org.nz/policies/education

    While education for many children is among the best in the world, we have a well-known “long-tail” of underachievers, who become the next generation of under skilled, unemployed, disengaged citizens. After 70 years of state controlled and mandated education, we have a situation where around 20% of our children left school last year unable to read or write sufficiently to fill out a job application.

    ACT believes that if we continue to do what we’ve always done, we will continue to get the same results that we’ve always had. The education system must do better for these New Zealanders. What we have done for too long is run education as a centrally planned, Wellington-dictated bureaucracy that gives little autonomy to schools and little choice to parents.

    Meanwhile, education policy in Australia, Sweden, parts of Canada and the United States, and Great Britain is showing the benefits of making education more market-like and entrepreneurial. Such policies lead to a wider range of education opportunities being available. ACT supports decentralisation in education, giving more autonomy to principals and teachers and more choice to students and parents.

    In the last parliamentary term, with ACT’s pressure and support, the government:

    • Introduced Aspire Scholarships, allowing disadvantaged children to access any school of their choice, public or private;

    • Undertake a review of education in New Zealand, leading to the ACT Party’s minority report Free to Learn, a comprehensive roadmap for reforming education towards a more market-like and entrepreneurial service;
    • Increase the subsidy for private schools, to reduce the extent to which those who send their children pay twice (once in taxes and once in school fees);
    • Value the special education sector more, with a special education review resulting in new directions described in the report Success for All: Every school, every child.

    ACT will keep working for a more vibrant and dynamic education system. A Party Vote for ACT is a vote to:

    • Continue awarding Aspire scholarships to underprivileged children;
    • Increase the autonomy that local principals and staff have in running their school. Boards and principals should be able, for example, to set teacher remuneration at their discretion like any other employer, rather than having a rigid, seniority based pay scale;
    • Further increase the subsidy for independent schools so that parents who choose independent schools for their children do not lose so much of their child’s share of education funding;
    • Encourage choice in assessment systems, whether they be NCEA, Cambridge International Examination, International Baccalaureate, or other qualifications.

    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    AFTER THE 2011 ELECTION CHARTER SCHOOLS (CONVENIENTLY) BECOME PART OF THE NATIONAL/ACT CONFIDENCE AND SUPPLY AGREEMENT:

    http://www.act.org.nz/national-act-confidence-and-supply-agreement

    5. Education

    National and ACT acknowledge that many New Zealand children are not achieving their potential in education and are leaving school ill-equipped to enter the workforce and with limited choices for their future. Underachievement in education often compounds the disadvantages already faced by children in vulnerable, at-risk communities, and can contribute to intergenerational disadvantage, poor health, poverty, joblessness, welfare dependence, criminal offending and social dysfunction. It is one of the reasons for New Zealand’s very high rate of youth unemployment.

    Both parties agree that to break this cycle a range of mutually-supporting reforms is required in the areas of welfare, primary health, education, youth transition and employment law.

    With respect to education, the parties have, in particular, agreed to implement a system, enabled under either sections 155 (Kura Kaupapa Maori) or 156 (Designated character schools), or another section if appropriate, of the Education Act, whereby school charters can be allocated in areas where educational underachievement is most entrenched. A series of charters would initially be allocated in areas such as South Auckland and Christchurch. Iwi, private and community (including Pacific Island) groups and existing educational providers would compete to operate a local school or start up a new one. Schools would be externally accountable and have a clearly-defined, ambitious mission. Public funding would continue to be on a per-child basis. (Details are included in the attached Annex).

    National and ACT agree to establish an implementation group comprising a private sector chair, and private sector, business, iwi and community representatives along with government officials to develop the proposal. They also agree to ensure it is implemented within this Parliamentary term. The terms of reference and composition of the group would be agreed by National and ACT and be supported by the Ministry of Education and external resources. (Details are included in the attached Annex.)

    National and ACT also agree to set up a task force to produce a comprehensive report on governance issues relating to policy towards state, integrated and independent schools. ”
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________

    How DODGY is that?

    The sort of TRANSPARENCY we’ve come to expect from DODGY John Banks and SHONKY John Key?

    hmmmm………………. If New Zealand is ‘perceived’ to be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ – shouldn’t we arguably be the most transparent?

    Where is ACT’s ‘mandate’ for this (new?) Charter Schools policy – upon which they did NOT campaign in the 2011 General Election?

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

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  38. scrubone (3,095 comments) says:

    Teaching is the only profession where you can get better results if you remove the professionals.

    But in most cases, you’ll probably see unqualified teachers working with qualified ones. So while a state school might have 30 students to a qualified teacher, you’ll have the same, but with 2 “unqualified” teachers thrown in. But the model allows pretty much any idea, so it will be interesting to see which ones are tried.

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  39. scrubone (3,095 comments) says:

    I bet Brian and Hannah Tamaki will be champing at the bit to teach some classes at their charter school

    Why? They already have a school. The only change would be who pays for it.
    http://www.destinychurch.org.nz/ministries/education-ministry

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  40. Sofia (856 comments) says:

    Penny – It is well-known that Charter Schools are an ACT education item, from their previous ACT / National MMP agreement [2008] and Brash’s speeches, for example.
    You, being a candidate in the Epsom electorate, should have known your opponent’s policy

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  41. Bob R (1,363 comments) says:

    ***Parents will weigh up if they think the teaching quality is good enough.***

    Lol. People decide whether a school is good or not based on the quality of the other students. That is the real advantage of high decile schools.

    See Professor Robert Weissberg’s “Bad Students, Not Bad Schools”. Since the Coleman Report in the 1960’s, it’s been known in the US that the main determinant of a schools quality is its students and their family background. Not the teachers or infrastructure.

    http://tinyurl.com/bt9yru6

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  42. Mark (1,480 comments) says:

    Is the gpverent taking funding away from state schools to find this. You bet it is so a system stretched for cash is having money diverted away to find a controversial and unproven scheme that will cherry pick students despite assurances to the contrary. Schos fixed costs do not reduce when they lose students to charter schools but their funding based on aspiration will be reduced. This of going to end up disastrously for a number of low decile schools.

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  43. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    Bob R (676) Says:
    August 3rd, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    ***Parents will weigh up if they think the teaching quality is good enough.***

    Lol. People decide whether a school is good or not based on the quality of the other students. That is the real advantage of high decile schools.

    Ain’t necessarily so. High decile mean parents with high incomes in the catchment area. Doesn’t mean better teachers etc.

    My local is low decile. Why, well because all round it the incomes are based on retired people. So the school gets more money.
    Great ain’t it.

    Better indeed than the one along the road about 750 meters which is a higher decile full of kids from one parent and mixed up blended and stressed out families.
    Guess who is happiest.

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  44. rg (210 comments) says:

    Geoff you plonker, the people of Epsom send their children to either a private school or Auckland Grammar or Epson Girls.
    They pay big money for their houses and suffer big mortgages to give their children the education they choose for them, They don’t need charter schools but the poor don’t have the choices Epsom voters have so that is why ACT wants them to have the same choices.
    And anyone who thinks the ACT Party is the rich mans party doesn’t undersatnd the ACT Party at all. ACT has always been about no second class citizens, no one left behind, the difference between them and the socialists is that ACT believe the best hand you can give anyone is the one on the end of their arm. A hand up, not a hand out.

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  45. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    So much wrong with your post DPF!

    “A university has said it is interested in running charter schools. Technically university lecturers are not qualified teachers. Are we saying that a maths lecturer could not also teach some maths classes at school?”
    Based on the maths lecturers I had at university, absolutely I would be saying that. I’m sure they had brilliant minds, but there is no way they could cope teaching maths to school students. Many school students hate maths or to use the PC term are “reluctant learners”. A good teacher needs to be a motivator as well as a provider of content. There is a vast difference between teaching and lecturing.

    “Unlike public schools which children are forced to go to, because they live nearby, no child will be forced to go to a charter school, against their parents wishes.”
    Rubbish. I was not forced to send my children to a public school and I didn’t have to send them to a school nearby if I didn’t want to.

    “If an All Black was willing to do a couple of PE sessions every week, would you turn that down?”
    Of course you wouldn’t (assuming the All Black had a good relationship with children). Schools welcome non-teachers with expertise now.

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  46. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    DPF “I like the fact that charter schools will have to accept every pupil who applies, so no cherry picking.”
    Yeah right. Isaac’s already suggested that charter schools go to malls to recruit students. Yes seriously!! What’s the bet that the charter school won’t be handing out a prospectus to the tattooed mongrel mob member in the mall with 5 delinquent kids in tow.

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  47. scrubone (3,095 comments) says:

    What’s the bet that the charter school won’t be handing out a prospectus to the tattooed mongrel mob member in the mall with 5 delinquent kids in tow.

    …and that is how a good idea gets undermined.

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  48. Paulus (2,608 comments) says:

    I read or heard very recently that 2% of Primary School teachers are unqualified and 6% of Secondary School teachers.
    This does not include Maori School teachers I believe.

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  49. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    I read or heard that 98% of Neolibs have IQs below 85.

    I also read or heard that 100% of 2008 – 2011 ACT MPs did not get re-elected.

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  50. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    I’m not a qualified teacher and I’m sure that I can teach math & physics at high school level. Education should be privatised so schools can decide who they want to hire. Innovations is bottom up and not a top down mandate.

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