Oh just shut up
August 29th, 2012 at 1:00 pm by David FarrarNicholas Jones at NZ Herald reports:
A film-maker who made inflammatory comments about a dead soldier has slammed the Defence Force and police for the response to subsequent threats against her.
But last night, both organisations disputed Barbara Sumner Burstyn’s version of events and expressed disappointment over her attack.
What I detest about this, is Burstyn is trying to make this all about her. Now she is lying about the Police.
Assistant Commissioner Malcolm Burgess said police twice dispatched staff to check an address provided by Sumner Burstyn. Attempts were made to phone the house, and checks revealed nothing untoward.
Local police were notified and neighbours alerted so police could be quickly notified of suspicious activity.
Mr Burgess said Sumner Burstyn was advised to contact Canadian police because she had full and immediate access to the relevant information. That information was forwarded via Interpol and was being assessed by detectives, he said.
“Ms Sumner Burstyn has acknowledged that she made a major gaffe through her Facebook comments.
“It is disappointing that she now sees fit to comment adversely and inaccurately on the organisation which responded properly to her concerns,” he said.
For an excellent take on this whole issue, I recommend Chris Trotter who noted:
In an extraordinary outburst on Facebook, the New Zealand film-maker, Barbara Sumner-Burstyn, delivered the following, scathing, “testimonial” to Lance Corporal Jacinda Baker, the young New Zealand soldier killed in action in Afghanistan on August 19: ‘Oh, so fallen soldier Jacinda Baker liked boxing and baking – did they forget she also liked invading countries we are not at war with, killing innocent people and had no moral compass. She 100 per cent does not deserve our respect for her flawed choices. We are not at war. We are helping America invade another country for their oil. No more than that.’
It is difficult to know where to begin with this thoroughly obnoxious piece of writing.
Perhaps with Sumner-Burstyn’s simple errors of fact.
Corporal Baker did not invade Afghanistan, she was posted there as a serving member of the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) which was in Afghanistan at the behest of the New Zealand Government, which had agreed to supply the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) with a Provincial Reconstruction Team in Bamiyan province.
The ISAF is in Afghanistan by virtue of a UN Security Council resolution authorising UN member states to aid the creation of an effective and democratic Afghan government.
Baker, far from ‘killing innocent people’ was a medic – duty-bound to assist all those wounded in combat or injured by enemy munitions – regardless of status or nationality.
When she was killed, Baker was escorting an injured comrade to medical assistance. It is extremely difficult to reconcile these facts with Sumner-Burstyn’s charge that Baker ‘had no moral compass’.
Sumner-Burstyn’s final claim: ‘We are helping America invade another country for their oil’ is similarly false.
Afghanistan possesses no oilfields worth expending US blood and treasure to secure.
The Americans are there for only one reason. Because the Taleban Government of Afghanistan had offered safe haven to Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda: the terrorists ultimately responsible for the murderous attacks of September 11, 2001.
So well summed up.
Threatened with rape and murder, Sumner-Burstyn fears to return to New Zealand.
A recent photograph of Sumner-Burstyn shows a middle-aged woman posed in front of a large bookcase filled with academic literature.
Studying her face, and reading about her many awards for documentary film- making – many of them on ‘progressive’ themes – it is difficult to fathom how Sumner-Burstyn could be capable of such casual cruelty.
As a clearly gifted artist and feminist, it is extraordinary that she was so utterly unable to empathise with Baker – the first female member of her generation to lose her life on active service.
By the same token, it is profoundly depressing to read the spittle-flecked responses of her detractors.
Baker lost her life on a mission to rebuild and heal a damaged province in a ravaged land.
Her empathy merited a much more generous memorial.
It is a shame that a few people went over the top and made threats, which have no place in public discourse. They also are responsible for the debate shifting from the dead soldiers to Burstyn herself.
Personally I just never want to hear about the woman again.
August 29th, 2012 at 1:04 pm
I’m not seeing anything there that makes “she invaded Afghanistan” untrue.
[DPF: The Government of Afghanistan has requested they be there. Or do you consider the US bases in Germany to still be an invasion?]
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
She is not a gifted artist. Just because someone wears dickhead-looking bold-framed glasses doesn’t mean they are an artist – just a dickhead.
She can say what she wants. But I don’t want her getting another cent of NZ on Air funding.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
There’s a great scene at the end of The Dead Zone where Christopher Walken looks at Martin Sheen and says ‘You’re finished, it’s over’.
Barbara should watch it sometime – she could pick up some good tips on film-making, and life.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
One can’t help but get the impression that she has been drinking at the same spring as Bronwyn Pullar. We better locate it and plug it up fast.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 1:21 pm
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/08/27/sumner-burstyn-new-zealand-threats.html
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
Just ignore the silly bitch.
Vote:Same spring as convicted drunk Greenpeace Flagbearer Robyn Malcolm
August 29th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
This crazed woman has every right to say what she did – no matter how wrong or stupid or idiotic. Thats what free speech is all about (and people shouldnt get too upset. I recall in my youth a little peom that went “stick and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you”.
Its about time that we remembered that this is what free speech is all about.
Im also totally Ok with the responses. Its only by these responses that this feminist lesbian will get the message that most people think she has no more character than a lump of goat shit.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
I feel a bit suspicious as to whether they were genuine threats. For example why would anyone from the NZDF have made threats of that sort.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Chris Trotter summed this up fairly well. Sumner Burstyn needs to stand back a little and reflect carefully on her own moral compass which appears somewhat offcourse
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
Leftist feminist with a bookcase full of progressive themes.
Why does this elevate her to some higher plane. She’s a lump of tax payer funded rubbish. How come an Assistant Commissioner and the much vaunted “Interpol” are on the case?Sounds like the lame Facebook threats have been turned into some sort of international incident way beyond their threat level.
Now if it had been threats from a certain body of other types (if you get my drift) then she should be scared. But as she would never have insulted that lot ,just her own, then I don’t see the need to panic.
If she decides she’s safer in Canada,all to the good, she should stay there and suck off their taxpayers.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
@ Monique
Vote:Amazing how unsupportive the Canadians are on her stance. The comments there could have come from Kiwiblog.
August 29th, 2012 at 1:42 pm
I find myself in full agreement with Chris Trotter! I don’t think this has ever happened before.
Seriously he does sum up the situation very well. I would add that as patriotic New Zealanders we should support our troops. They are making the ultimate sacrifice for their country. God bless them.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
Fact is this is the most famous she has ever been. To go down in history for this, rather than for any of her films, endeavours, humanitarian work, positive additions to our society or even to art, that is tribute enough.
I suggest we just ignore her, and let her slip back into (now) well-deserved obscurity.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
she is just one big fat -waa
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
Well written Mr Trotter (God did I just say that?)
This repulsive Burstyn creature is obviously hoping to rally sympathy from the ‘Police Hating’ left with her latest attack- but she simply comes across as even more unhinged and demented.
Vote:Well done also Mr Burgess for quickly standing up for your troops and setting things straight (Police bosses have a history of sitting on their hands and quietly taking flak like this..)
August 29th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Is there any proof?
i say this in all seriousness, becuase whenever a lefty gets caught out doing something stupid (robyn malcolm claimed it during the hobbit debacle), or has a hissy fit (ala idiot/idiot) they always say that they ‘have recieved death threats’. hell i am sure i read of one who ‘felt like’ they had been threatened because of the strength of the condemnation.
now were they actual “i am going to kill you” threats or the “i wish you were dead” threats, which are not really threats.
it always surprises me because the left will cause property damage, attack people, ‘train’ in the forest etc but somehow the only time ‘deaththreats’ occur is when they are being called to account by the ‘right’.
yes there are screen shots sometimes of these ‘threats’ but they are usually so lame you have to wonder if they are a troll, or someone on their own side who knows how much publicity the left can get off of ‘death threats’. i am sceptical of people actually threatening to rape someone as well, just strikes me as a shock claim.
So usually whenever i hear that after making an ass of themself a prominent lefty has recieved death threats, i mostly switch off and assume its just bullshit to try and turn them into a victim rather than actually address why they screwed up.
none of this of course makes actual threats of rape or murder a good thing, in facts its deplorable. but the left cry wolf so often, when is it actually real.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
Lets play spot the hypocrisy
I fucking hate the military and the police.
Vote:Why aren’t they military and the police doing anything to help me when I demand they do?
August 29th, 2012 at 2:23 pm
Shes afraid to come back to New Zealand?
OH NOES!!!!
Oh well. Never mind, bye bye summy bear.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
“i say this in all seriousness, becuase whenever a lefty gets caught out doing something stupid (robyn malcolm claimed it during the hobbit debacle), or has a hissy fit (ala idiot/idiot) they always say that they ‘have recieved death threats.”
How long have you been on the internet? Anyone who says anything controversial that goes against the interests of some significant interest group and becomes widely publicised is likely to get them. Beware the internet rage of linux nerds, breastfeeding advocates, anti-circumcision loons, etc.
Go on the Trade me boards and post material in support of Stuart Wilson. See how long it takes.
In my experience, women do get it a bit worse than men. Why is it that when some people are disgusted by something a woman says, that they feel it necessary to go full misogynist? Sending people rape threats, pornography, sexual drawings of them being defecated or ejaculated upon by groups of strangers, etc. is just unacceptable.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
there is a difference between some rage on the net, and these ‘deaththreats’ that keep popping up. i have seen all manner of massive internet flamestorms on all sorts of subjects and they almost never descend to death threats and if they do its one person losing the whole plot.
not heaps of people threatening death and rape willy nilly.
also the media only take it extremely seriously when a poor crying lefty recieves ‘death threats’. they were all very concerned about how the crowd who had ‘stalked’ robyn malcolm and co were reported (by malcolm) as being very threatening and in her face and how she feared for her saftey. they barely reported the truth which was in video of some nerds politely asking malcolm why she was ruining their jobs.
its the go to defence of the left. i am not saying it does not happen, but it only seems to happen with the vitriol that needs the police when a lefty wants to deflect from their own stupidity.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
All I did was rejoice a little in their colleague’s death, and for no reason at all they said all sorts of mean things about me! It’s not fair!
People that far up their own arse never learn anything. In her own mind she’ll be a blameless victim who was wronged by a bunch of bullies, until the day she dies.
The best we can hope for is that she likes Canada enough to stay there…
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
Oh Chris, even as you say the right things you demonstrate that you just don’t get it. The views you express about the woman in these lines are precisely why she was capable of such casual cruelty and why she was utterly unable to empathise with the dead woman.
Gaining many awards for making films with ‘progressive’ themes and being praised by many left-wingers as a clearly gifted artist and feminist, is what gave her the overweening sense of moral and intellectual superiority that allowed her to be so cruel. It is that modern left-wing ethos that so many bathe in, shorn of any real experience with the lower orders, that destroyed her empathy.
You still have that Chris, which is also why you don’t understand, but then – as much you’ve ever annoyed me – I’ve never doubted your working class credentials. But there aren’t many of you remaining in the modern left-wing.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
^^ tom,
Not to forget:
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 3:45 pm
I think she is just milking the publicity! Given that they were online threats and she was in a different country she was never in any danger.
I am just waiting for her documentary about it to come out!! That is what it is all about in my opinion!
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 4:54 pm
Interesting that on Ms Sumner-Burstyn’s website cloudsouthfilms.blogspot.co.nz / .blogspot.ca she has removed her offending article and her follow up “apology” article from Monday. One would have thought if she truly believed in herself (and her apology) she wouldn’t self-censor her own articles!
(Say, do ya reckon b1gdaddy she really does want to make a documentary about being hounded by violent Facebook ‘thugs and rapists’, at least by removing her articles she can re-write history to indeed be the victim (and people wouldn’t be able access her articles to get the true facts)
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 5:54 pm
Tom, snap. Except I was about to say it much more rudely.
…Where’s Hamnida. (I’m pretty sure he’s Gaweth Hughes – he’s on the same level as this cow.)
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 6:23 pm
If you’d bothered to read the comments about Trotter’s article on his website, you will see his own facts leave a lot to be desired. To think he once protested against the Vietnam War. The Chris Trotter of today seems to think wars are OK.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 6:27 pm
“The Chris Trotter of today seems to think wars are OK.”
Perhaps that’s because he’s finally realised that sometime they are indeed better than the alternative?
It’s a bit nuanced I know.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 6:31 pm
Wat
All those innocent civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan will be delighted to learn that the alternative is worse. They’ll be dancing in their graves.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 6:37 pm
If we weren’t in Afghanistan, as we shouldn’t be, this debate would not have arisen. Jacinda Baker would be alive doing what she enjoys doing. It’s rather ironic that Sumner-Burstyn’s comments should generate outrage and death threats, while Baker’s senseless death barely rates a mention. Valerie Morse’s protest on Anzac Day drew a similarly strong response, suggesting that it hit its mark.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 6:41 pm
My dialogue today with Ms Burstyn:
ME:
As a Counsellor who works with grieving families, I am simply appalled by your comments regarding the fallen NZ soldiers.
While I would defend your right to free speech, your careless use of this right (one secured in battle, actually) has now seemingly
resulted in the law of natural consequence for you, against which you now reportedly rail.
Andrew Bolt probably says the rest better than I can:
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/a_cruelty_exceeded_only_by_her_stupidity1/
BSB:
Wow – one stupid comment that was about NZ’s involvement in Afghanistan that came out very wrong and even professionals like yourself join the lynch mob. Perhaps you’d like to stand in line to rape me with chainsaws, burn down my house and run down my children in the street too?
ME:
Barbara,
While it apparent to me that the stress of the situation is telling upon you in your response, I do not regard as legitimate your projection onto me of the obviously unsavory feedback you have recieved to date.
A cursory internet search affirms that your comment was completely consistent with your ideology – and you have taken a bold stand in the defence of same, which is your sovereign right to do. It is the sovereign right of others to vehemently disagree with you, and at times this disagreement will be presented in a somewhat “untidy” fashion.
In ancient Rome, when a person spoke to the crowd, observers held white and black stones, and placed these stones in jars at the conclusion of the speech, voting either for or against the argument.
It would appear that the people have spoken, judging by the amount of “black stones” raining down upon you.
As a parent, I am mindful of your concern for your children, as I would be for mine, which is why I am careful when exercising my right to free speech, lest the “spillover effect” is negatively visited upon them.
Disagreement with what you said does not neccessarily constitute a “lynch – mob”: you have simply bitten off more than you were capable of masticating on this occasion – and hopefully, you will learn to be more judicious when you next attempt to gain ideological milage from a national tragedy.
BSB:
Ah yes, the judgemental counsellor. Nice one. Perhaps your own ideological slip is showing.
ME:
All Counsellors are judgmental; all people are judgmental. Philosophically, to state that one is non-judgmental is to state a position
of judgment.
Any Counsellor who tells you that they are non-judgmental is either ignorant about what they are stating, or lying to you.
Less ad homenim please – I guess you could choose to take offence, or simply just take the correction?
Hubris verses humility – an apt summary for the battle within the human ego, yes?
All commentary is a battle between ideas – on this occasion, your ideas have been weighed, measured, and found wanting.
Just as well we are not our ideas, isn’t it, otherwise our self-esteem would take a terible hammering when we were proved to be wrong.
BSB:
Actually my ideas have not have been weighed, measured, and found wanting.
And you have no idea of my ideas. You know from one small post – a remark to a select group – that was taken by a disgruntled woman and spread as a malicious act.
We all say things in private to one another that are not for the general population.
The way I expressed them was incorrect and for that I have apologised.
However there is a big community in support.
We have no right to be in Afghanistan. War is murder where they’ve changed the laws. And especially this war where there is no casus belli.
This fact alone puts our troops into a moral jeopardy with broad repercussions. And these soldiers are not the farm boy conscripts of time gone by. They are people who choose to go into the theatre of an unjust war. Those not in direct combat roles are supporting the war machine.
And did I ask for your correction or your advice? Surely the first rule is only give advice when asked for it.
You wrote unsolicited to admonish me with no other reason than to satisfy your own need to be abusive.
I most certainly will not take your correction because I do not respect you.
ME:
Barbara,
Oh, I think the evidence in response to your abridged polemic is quite extensive regarding weighing and measuring
Your ideas are a matter of public record, so yes, I believe I have a pretty good handle on what you think about what, and why.
If you want to make comments in private – don’t publish them on the Internet – it is the least private forum on the planet.
I wrote to express an opinion, and I cannot find any abuse towards you. On the other hand, your resposnes to me are laced with an undisguised distain for anyone who simply offers an alternative opinion to yours- it appears you have welded “alternative opinion” to “abuse” – they are not the same.
I suspect you may only respect those who already agree with you – in research such a position is called “confirmation bias”.
Who determines what rights the Executive of a nation state has?
Ultimately, it’s voters. Be angry at the public who empower the politicians if you like, but aiming your vitriol towards those who are commanded by the nation state is simply mis-directed and impotent hubris.
I am asking you to consider the correction being internationally aimed at you about your position and your statements – you can choose to ride your ego back into the battle, however to do the same thing the same way and expect a different result would be folly on your part.
Still, it is said that one of the greatest teachers of wisdom is experience – and it would appear you still have much to learn, so be my guest, and ride away
(No reply from BSB as yet).
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 7:03 pm
> I am simply appalled by your comments regarding the fallen NZ soldiers.
So not appalled at their deaths…
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 7:10 pm
> All commentary is a battle between ideas – on this occasion, your ideas have been weighed, measured, and found wanting.
So, again, her opinion should be treated with more seriousness and outrage than soldiers’ deaths? And the idea that we shouldn’t be in Afghanistan has plenty of support. Just think for a moment: if we weren’t in Afghanistan, we wouldn’t be having this dicussion and you wouldn’t have written to Sumner-Burstyn.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 7:15 pm
> We have no right to be in Afghanistan.
Good to see you agree with her on that point
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 7:21 pm
Hopefully she doesn’t come back.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 7:43 pm
Oh, I see ross69… If Jacinda Baker had not had the damned audacity to volunteer and then go and die in Afghanistan, BSB wouldn’t be the victim of such opprobrium.
Nice to know your have your perspectives and priorities right [in your mind]
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 7:51 pm
It’s funny, because I recall both Iraq and Afghanistan being the subjects of a lot of lefty hand-wringing back before the Americans took action. Iraq in particular was doing very badly under the sanctions.
I guess hand wringing is ok, but joining UN authorised missions to do something about it is not.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 7:55 pm
Ross69: No, I am not appalled by their deaths. Sad that we lost them? Naturally, but not appalled. I will honour their soveriegnty to make their own choices, including their choice to go where many would not have the courage to go.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 7:56 pm
“If you’d bothered to read the comments about Trotter’s article on his website, you will see his own facts leave a lot to be desired. ”
Yea… apparently the Americans went there to develop oil fields no one existed and rare earth materials no one had discovered at the time. Perhaps the Taliban were in on the deal – after all, they were the ones who were given the choice to give up Osama and chose not to.
I’m sure if given half the chance you’d tell us that WWII was unjustified too.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
its telling of ross the fuckwit that he thinks that people getting outraged and having an emotional outburst when someone decides to make a targeted to offend, vulgar and distracting attack on people or an idea or a group when they are at an emotional trigger point (cf – the military when a colleague dies or the greater public on anzac day) is their argument ‘hitting the mark’.
no its not, its simply your lot of fellow travellers usurping the genuine emotional state of people to twist it to suit your own ego.
if you wanted to see if your argument (if you can call it that at all) hits any mark, present it to people when they able to be objective from a distance, so not in the middle of dawn service on anzac day or just after someone dies.
bakers death has had a reaction, but for most reasonable people who dont want other peoples experiences to be all about themselves, that reaction has been a quiet, internal one. the external reaction only comes when complete fuckwits like burstyn or morse try and usurp that genuine emotion to make it all about their ego.
the fact that you lot are never able to mount a convincing argument when a) the target is ready and prepared to discuss and b) are not emotionally fragile, shows that your arguments never hit the mark, becuase you are too scared to have them stand up to real scrutiny.
ross as usual has shown himself to be scum, but then, we knew that. Ham at least (in this case) has realised he fucked up politicising the haka yesterday and is in hiding (hopefully to stay).
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 8:01 pm
Ross69: false dichotomy: Burstyns opinion was grossly offensive in response to the death of NZ citizens, and was an inhuman attempt to gain ideological milage out of national mourning . The death of the soldiers was not grossly offensive – simply a possible / probable outcome to consider when entering hostile territory. Baker was a medic assisting a wounded comrade, not a female verson of “Commando”. Burstyn may as well have fed on her corpse.
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 8:06 pm
Letterman,
Given her continued commentary, [to my mind at least] she is…
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 8:09 pm
If it had not been Jacinda Baker, the attack from Barbara Sunmer Burstyn would have been on someone else.
Vote:The woman has no respect for any country she lives in, or the people who live there. She is a bludger living off the meek and mild.
Fuck off and never darken our doorway again Barbara Sunmer Burstyn or whoever you are, with your many name changes
August 29th, 2012 at 8:44 pm
Let’s just hope she gets stomach cancer
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 9:38 pm
well written Letterman
Vote:August 29th, 2012 at 10:44 pm
Got to admire her advertising campaign though.
Until now none of us had ever heard of her now she is the biggest c**t in the country!
Vote:August 30th, 2012 at 2:43 am
So Letterman, essentially she’s still come out fighting after all this? Good grief. I hope her NZ film career is over.
Vote:August 30th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
“Burstyns opinion was grossly offensive…[t]he death of the soldiers was not grossly offensive.”
Thanks for confirming what was apparent. You’re outraged by someone expressing their opinion, but someone dying a needless and senseless death? Meh. And then you have the cheek to lecture Sumner-Burstyn. I suggest you look in the mirror.
Vote:August 31st, 2012 at 6:45 am
Excellent advice Ross.
Vote:August 31st, 2012 at 7:50 pm
Ross69: Strawman: I am outraged that Bursteyn fed on the corpse of a dead New Zealand citizen to further her own political agenda, and I don’t agree that the deaths were either needless or senseless, because to do so I would be second-guessing the soldiers motivation and desire to be where they were, and take the risks they chose to take. I did not lecture Bursteyn – I simply offered an alternative perspective, and opined my disagreement with her actions – such an action did not require a mirror – simply a brain.
Lee C: see “Strawman”
Vote:September 1st, 2012 at 6:00 pm
@Letterman,
I think Lee C was suggesting that ross69 take his own advice.
(Alas ross69′s myopia is so acute I think he could only see a bright, shining ring of light)
Vote: