The alcohol age ballot

August 30th, 2012 at 5:57 pm by David Farrar

The results of the first ballot was 18/18 had the most but not 50% and split the least so this means a final ballot of 18/18 and 20/20. Results soon.

Yes 18 won with 69 votes. Well done Keep it 18 and especially Moana Mackey and Nikki Kaye for a great result!

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39 Responses to “The alcohol age ballot”

  1. dog_eat_dog (761 comments) says:

    18 it is.

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  2. eszett (2,374 comments) says:

    It is indeed. Excellent.

    Strange days indeed, I have watched Parliament TV 2 days in a row!

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  3. Flyingkiwi9 (54 comments) says:

    Finally MPs side with freedom and self responsibility.

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  4. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Humble pie, eating. How specifically is the “drinking culture of New Zealand”, going to be changed if raising the drinking age has been rejected?

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  5. Pete George (23,326 comments) says:

    Monique – people of New Zealand have to make sure it changes. Get campaigning.

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  6. Pete George (23,326 comments) says:

    The corrected final vote is 68-53.

    Last night was ballsed up too. Can we have a first world voting system in parliament?

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  7. Barnsley Bill (982 comments) says:

    Why 20? Why not 42, 3 months, 17 days and 9 hours?
    Ridiculous argument rightly defeated

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  8. Nicholas O'Kane (168 comments) says:

    I hope there is a chance of an split age vs 18 vote being allowed, as I think a split age would pass. It will be interesting to see if any MPs voted for 20 then 18, strategically voting to make the 20 age beat the split age, so 18 would stand the best chance in the secound vote. I hope the other reforms in the bill work.

    Maybe a split age can be the topic of a private members bill in the future. To me it seems a reasonable compromise bettwen 18 and 20, and stops under 18s from being supplied by over 18s, while still allowing 18 year olds to drink in a responsible setting. It has the added advantage of helping to ensure that people learn to drink in a bar, where it is illegal to sell to intoxicated people, as opposed to a home binge-up.

    p.s. it would be great if someone could post the details of how the MPs voted

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  9. coventry (316 comments) says:

    Mai Chen was banging on about conscience votes this afternoon, she was implying that MP’s vote inline with their constituents wishes – got me to thinking, list MP’s have none – so should they be excluded in these type of votes ? How would yesterdays & todays votes gone down if the list MP’s were removed from the equation. Would be nice to see no influence on policy from either the melons or winstone.

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  10. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    coventry: Has it ever entered your head that list MP’s might regard “the people of New Zealand” as their constituents? That was my view…

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  11. SalParadise (54 comments) says:

    @Nicholas O’Kane

    I don’t know if you have been to a bar at 1am on Sunday morning lately, but there are an awful lot of intoxicated people being served.

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  12. coventry (316 comments) says:

    David: “the people of New Zealand” have no influence as to how a party picks it’s list, if we don’t like a list MP, we can’t directly vote them out of parliament can we ?

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  13. chris (589 comments) says:

    she was implying that MP’s vote inline with their constituents wishes

    You think that one MP’s single vote can accurately represent the roughly 60,000 individuals in an electorate?

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  14. chris (589 comments) says:

    David: “the people of New Zealand” have no influence as to how a party picks it’s list, if we don’t like a list MP, we can’t directly vote them out of parliament can we ?

    Just like you have no hope of voting out an MP in a safe electorate.

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  15. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    Chris: exactly…

    Coventry: You are looking at the issue “arse about face” as my late father would have said…once a list MP is elected, he or she surely owes a duty to all voters, wherever they may live, to represent them and assist them where possible? I can assure you that lobbyists dont distiguish between list and electorate MP’s…they are well aware that every MP has one vote…

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  16. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    Cambell Live poll 81% say no to “should the drinking age stay at 18″ to 19% Yes. So a win to the corrupt scum of parliament.

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  17. shoreboy57 (137 comments) says:

    Cambell Live poll 81% say no to “should the drinking age stay at 18″ to 19% Yes. So a win to the corrupt scum of parliament.

    Which is why you wouldn’t want JC’s flock running the country

    The vote is a win for clear thought over populism. Now lets have a proper debate about addressing harm through positive steps not prohibitions

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  18. eszett (2,374 comments) says:

    coventry (293) Says:
    August 30th, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    David: “the people of New Zealand” have no influence as to how a party picks it’s list, if we don’t like a list MP, we can’t directly vote them out of parliament can we ?

    Neither can you with any of the other 69 constituent MPs. And if you haven to live in a safe seat, you may have no influence whatsoever over your MP.

    You party vote however always counts.

    So List MPs have accountability, arguably even more than constituent MPs.
    Besides most List MPs also are in the race in a consituency.

    This argument against List MPs is just plain silly.

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  19. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Good news – lots of progressive law making at the moment.

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  20. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Well argued. Well lobbied. The “Keep it 18″ supporters are to be commended.

    Democracy in action. We are fortunate to have have all of the freedoms it affords us (regardless of whether we are on the ‘won’ or ‘lost’ side of this vote.)

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  21. tamati (70 comments) says:

    A great win for freedom and the Gen X’s and Y’s over the baby boomers.

    I hope the keep it 18, doesn’t celebrate too hard and go out on the piss like they won. There is still the risk that the wowser brigade get their way and implement punitive taxes and restrictions on licences.

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  22. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    “A great win for freedom and the Gen X’s and Y’s over the baby boomers. ”

    What a fuckwit statement to make! As a 62 year old who started drinking piss at 15 and propped up the bar at the old St. George from the age of 18, when we still had 6 O’clock closing and the legal age was 20, I can speak with some experience on the subject of drinking piss.

    All I can say is we may have had a slash in the corner of the bar in those days cause it was too hard to push through the drunken throng to the dunny with a full bladder but at least we showed proper respect to the lovely tightly, uniformed Ladies who brought round the “Warcry” ! :)

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  23. Chuck Bird (4,765 comments) says:

    “when we still had 6 O’clock closing and the legal age was 20″

    Getting pissed at at 15 must have affected your memory. When we had 6 O’clock the legal age for drinking and voting was 21.

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  24. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    bhudson (2,330) Says:
    August 30th, 2012 at 8:03 pm
    Well argued. Well lobbied. The “Keep it 18″ supporters are to be commended.

    Democracy in action. We are fortunate to have have all of the freedoms it affords us (regardless of whether we are on the ‘won’ or ‘lost’ side of this vote.)
    ……………………
    So lobbying and “well argued” are the same thing?

    Smacking all over again: parliament doesn’t require public opinion.

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  25. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    Hic! Your right Chuck. It was a long time ago but I can still remember those tight suited little Sally Army chicks with their mobile, middle arsed, bums and the seamed stockings. Almost made me take up religion it did! :)

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  26. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    Do we know how much National receives from the liquor companies? I realise that is a loaded statement but hardly a far-fetched proposition.

    [DPF: Parties by law disclose all donations above $15,000 (which is less than 0.5% of their overall income), and no donation over that level was made to National.

    But nice try at smearing. It says much about you that you think MPs on a conscience issue have been bought off. My theory is the only people who think like that are those who themselves would sell out for money]

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  27. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    About the same as Labour does hj!

    Big outfits hedge their bets and take options on futures eh despite what urban myths would have you believe.

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  28. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    Broken glass on the roads: make the liquor industry clean it up.

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  29. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    Big outfits hedge their bets and take options on futures eh despite what urban myths would have you believe.
    …….
    that’s why “Bill LUi” gave to National and Labour.

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  30. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    Good result. We simply need tougher merasures on drunk and disorderly behaviour from people of any age. Anyone who thinks societal ills from the abuse of alcohol would be even slightly curtailed by raising the age to 20 has rocks in their head.

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  31. Pete George (23,326 comments) says:

    Shoreboy: Now lets have a proper debate about addressing harm through positive steps not prohibitions.

    krazykiwi: We simply need tougher measures on drunk and disorderly behaviour from people of any age.

    Yes to both of those. But there’s one thing above all else that will make a real difference. Peer pressure.

    We can’t expect parliament nor MPs to fix society’s problems. They can legislate and coerce and police. But the fundamental change we need has to come from the cities, the suburbs, the regions, the countryside, countrywide.

    We, that’s us generally, as individuals and families and commmunities, need to change some piss poor attititudes to getting pissed. When we accept that responsibility and speak up about it and show by example how to drink reasonably and responsibly.

    It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t get pissed still. But many of us can get less pissed, and get pissed less often. And if we do get pissed and make fools of ourselves then look on ourselves as stupid pissheads.

    Our piss poor culture will only change if we look at it differently and if we act differently. At least now we can’t fall back on punishing 18 and 19 year olds for the problems that many of us are a part of.

    When many of us change the problems will change.

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  32. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    The creatures at KB looked from Peter George to Peter Dunne, and from Peter Dunne to Peter George, and from Peter George to Peter Dunne again; but already it was impossible to say which was which! :)

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  33. Liberal Minded Kiwi (1,568 comments) says:

    I saw this on Facebook and have to share. Why are the older members here so upset? Their generation were the ones that wrecked havoc with the drinking laws, even when it was restricted with the 6pm swill. They never learned and instead their habits filtered down to todays youth. Before blaming 17-19 year olds for societies ills, take some personal responsibility for yourselves and see you are part of the problem.

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  34. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,820 comments) says:

    Wow, the New Zealand economy doing that well that MPs can waste their time on these BS social issues. Alot of people migrating from Perth to New Zealand?

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  35. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    @ Pete George, I should I say Mini Me Dunne according to John Boy :)
    I totally agree and you said something once about taking breaks from alcohol from a young age which I think is important to manage alcohol consumption. The thing is it’s really hard to recognize when alcohol dependence is kicking in and not even at the levels of “brown paper bag”, swilling. it’s easy to get into a habitual couple of glasses of wine at night and that’s completely normal but you have to take a break. I take a break when I notice the quantities I consume increase.
    @ Liberal Minded kiwi. It’s about wanting to protect your brains before you are given explicit permission to go and root yourselves on alcohol like our generations. That’s what a good portion of you will do if consequences are not set for alcohol driven behavior. It’s not about wanting to punish you. And once you start drinking it’s just another thing to manage. IMHO the younger you are the harder it is to manage the “FUCK YEAH, I can drink like a savage bastard”, impulse that lies within some of us.
    Notice how it got turned into a moral issue by the left and then all the soft-cocks folded under pressure from kids and farmers.

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  36. Liberal Minded Kiwi (1,568 comments) says:

    Don’t know about you Monique but I most certainly don’t want wowsers or the state telling me that all 18-19 yr olds are irresponsible. I know a great amount of them that are more responsible and mature than you and I.

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  37. Mobile Michael (432 comments) says:

    The fact that NZ First block voted for 20 showed raising the age was pure populism. My recollection is New Zealand is much more mature around alcohol than they were 20 years ago. Despite all the wowserism, drink driving is no longer seen as marginal (now it’s uncool) and bars are not serving drunks like they used to. I haven’t heard of any recent all-in brawls which were common in Wellington streets 20 years ago between drunken young men (particularly in Manners Mall).

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  38. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    A complete waste of time while there are more pressing problems to solve: the economy, for example.

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  39. Peter (1,664 comments) says:

    “before you are given explicit permission to go and root yourselves on alcohol like our generations.”

    Speak for yourself.

    It’s quite possible to enjoy drinking and not get, erm…”rooted”.

    Although that doesn’t sound bad, either.

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