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144 Responses to “General Debate 2 September 2012”
Oh dear; which political party has been busted again for hiring people to do their public bidding? This time it’s worse though, because they’ve hidden behind a PR agency, but the whistle’s been blown nonetheless. Four grand (of public money?) for five weeks’ work plus food, accommodation and travel is good dosh.
And to think; the Greens used to pride themselves on being principled…
Comment on Spoonley post Public address 3 yrs ago. Prior report from Savings Working Group and Australian Productivity Commision.
“I’ll go out a limb and present a different point of view. Our treatment and attitude to migrants reflects a wider diffidence to immigration amongst New Zealanders in general. If, as Brickley Paiste claims,
The truth is that non-white and non-English speaking immigrants to this country feel no particular sentimental loyalty to NZ. Most of them I speak to, and I speak to many, want to move to Aussie/Canada/USA.
then I would suggest the feeling is mutual amongst a large body of New Zealanders who would be happy to see the back of them.
The “drive to multi-culturalism” as it has been put above was yet another ‘reform” driven from above with little consultation about the numbers, consequences or wisdom of it all, and the result has been a significant and on on-going form of subtle apartheid. Ask around – every migrant knows Pakeha will always prefer a Pakeha over a migrant, that most jobs are not advertised and instead rely on networks of patronage that they don’t have access to and that most New Zealanders know this and actively prefer to keep immigrants locked out of as much of the economy as possible.
Personally I’ll be honest and say I became deeply ambivilant about immigration when i realised that our precious social security system, something my parents and grandparents built with the sweat of their brows, would be unlikely to survive the strains of an encounter with mass migration. Put simply, I prefer the certainties of the homogenity and shared values of my culture that gave us the historic social contract that built New Zealand to the dubious advantages of simply importing people to fuel economic growth.
Let’s be honest here – the Scandinavian countries whose comprehensive welfare systems and progressive policices we so admire can only afford to do so because they maintain a cultural and ethnic homogenity and they strictly control immigration. When things go wrong, as in Holland where the legacy of empire includes a significant Moslem minority, these countries react by trying to enforce conformity.
If we are to have immigration then it seems to me the lessons of other countries says it is form of cultural genocide for the local population to try and embrace a nebulous and unworkable idea of “diversity.” You must insist on assimilation, and structure our policies toward migration on that basis.
I suppose at the end of the day I just ask myself the question – if a country has no shared cultural, racial or social values what sort of country is it? Is it a country worth speaking of at all? Do we really want to becomejust another babelling tower – fractured, fractious, over-crowded and polluted?
……..
Russel Brown 3 yeras ago
If you’re going to “be honest”, look up some numbers. Canada has the highest per capita net immigration rate in the world and still manages to be quite admirable. Spain, which has absorbed more than three million immigrants since 2000, is flourishing. Immigration to Norway is at record levels.
And really, even in New Zealand, where a dizzying 23% of the population was born elsewhere, I can’t see the social fabric tearing, let alone any “cultural genocide” going on.
A ‘lucrative campaign” – with a bonus? How much is being paid for signatures? This looks like more Green prostitution of CIR – with taxpayer money again? If so this is stink democracy.
Quite so Pete; perception is everything, and the perception here is that the Greens not only have their snouts in the public trough, but also that they have gone to some lengths to hide their involvement.
Still, the left-wing troll on early shift monitoring my blog today doesn’t see a problem with it, so it must all be ok. But it would be interesting to see what the Auditor-General thinks…
The point is that all the arguments in the 3 yr old discussion I posted above can be refuted, especially given the adverse economic effect large numbers of migrants have had on the NZ economy. No matter how bright and gay the migrants are the interests of the smelly old “mono cultural” NZrs precede theirs (I don’t care what Spoonely and Russell “when I lived in London..” Brown says.
So apparently, not only is homosexual marriage a “civil right”, so is a woman baring her breasts in public.
Complaints have been filed with authorities in Asheville, N.C., over the annual “Go Topless Day,” which was held in a number of cities across the nation Sunday.
At the rallies Aug. 26, women stripped to the waist to protest “unequal rights” that allow men to be bare-chested but not women.
[...]
Johnson likened the baring of women’s breasts in public to the civil rights movement and condemned the city council and Asheville Mayor Terry Bellamy for issuing a letter urging families and children to stay away from the event.
“Apparently the mayor has forgotten 1964 and the Civil Rights movement,” Johnson said. “As a matter of fact, that is why she is the mayor here and doesn’t have to sit in the back of the bus, because of those civil rights. We’re invoking those civil rights.”
At least the Greens aren’t in bed with Big Tobacco like Peter Dunne* (or Big Property Investor, Real estate agent etc).
*ref Lancet Screening for Ministerial appointments? Systems failure in Peter Dunne’s appointment as a New Zealand Revenue and Associate Health Minister
It may well be sneaky and underhand, but if the Greens want to expend their funds collecting signatures from D Duck and M Mouse, that will leave them with far less to spend on other activities.
And the Speaker won’t be handing out credit when they come crying that they don’t have any money…
Surprise, surprise. Fletch thinks that the World Nut Daily is a source of news.
And the women DO have a point. Why is it OK for men to bare breast in public but not women? I saw an old fellah at Hanmer yesterday with bigger, saggier tits than my partner.
Of course, fletch is a christian, so no surprise that he is sexually repressed; that’s the entire foundation of their religion.
Last night on Channel 9 we were thrilled by the song and dancing to the new factory. The new factory had railroads coming to it and production and other forgetables. The songs were sung to clicking bamboo. Thankyou to the Government of the Peoples Republic from your loyal subjects.
hj – are you trying more of this nonsense? “MP Peter Dunne has consistently opposed tobacco control measures since leaving the Labour party in 1994″
Peter Dunne has been Minister of Revenue and has supported Labour and National government initiatives to increase tax on tobacco significantly over the past few terms.
Woman bearing thier breasts
As a red blooded male with a fully functioning appreciation of the female form
Guess what
I LIKE TITTYS
Due to the urges hard wired into us this is normal
and Fletch post gives more insight into the sexual repression of the fundies
Male + female =sex
and if your urges are repressed you end up obsessing about sex all the time
yes its nice to admire the female form I live on a beach and see it all the time
but I dont obsess about it I dont perv at girls bearing their bits
I think deep down in side the fundies do perv and realise its wrong and because of this they want the temptation removed
They want woman covered up because they are perverts
How intolerant you are of other people’s beliefs Hamnida. And our service (traditional Presbyterian) will last an hour on the dot. We’ll be at our favourite cafe enjoying lunch by 11.30am
Gotta keep in mind Griff, that Fletch worships the guy who invented thought crime.
But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Yep, just following the natural instincts that his god built in to him has fletch committing sin. Is it any wonder Christians are so fucked up, that they commit most of the sex crimes?
hamneggs did you read the study?
Did you learn that the intelligent liberals dont believe in government sponsored asset redistribution
Did you learn that its the neo libs that have higher IQs
Do you now understand that liberal vs conservative is not capitalism vs Marxism
Doubt it
if you post your liberals are smarter so therefore socialist are smarter one more time you will only reinforce your stupidity
Socialist liberals are dumber !!!and there is actual proof of this
Keeping Stock (8,046) Says:
September 2nd, 2012 at 9:37 am
How intolerant you are of other people’s beliefs Hamnida.
Why should hamnida, or indeed anyone, be expected to be tolerant of others’ beliefs? Your beliefs are your matter, and if some of us don’t share them, then it is intolerant of you to insist we accept whatever crap your priest/pastor/iman/minister/rabbi spews forth.
This is another case of MSM unfairly reporting and building up a storm in a tea-cup.
We spent 3 months in the Auckland NICU ward last year with our son, and further time at MiddleMore, Waikato and Starship, and ALL of them went out of their way to help with bottle feeding when there wasn’t enough breast milk.
But, from what you read in the media it sounds like there is a Gestapo out there who would rather let a baby starve to death than give it formula?
Winston/ NZ First got slammed for opposing mass migration to our country. So why doesn’t Winston use the findings of the Savings Working Group or Australian Productivity Commision? Why doesn’t NZ First question the “broadly non controversial (nobbled) terms” of our own productivity commission.
Has Winston been bought?
Totally agree seanmaitland – the breast feeding brigade have gone too far. A sensible approach would be breast feed if you can, otherwise formula is fine. I hate how the Gestapo make some women feel guilty.
People don’t understand exponential growth. I’d like to see the libertarians argue against the arithmetic here. Watt will rename himself “Twat” if he watches this:
Sensible women don’t walk around bare breasted because they don’t want their bosoms eventually stretching down to their knees!
But once again, we are talking about the agenda of our new overlords and moral legislators and how we should bow down to every stupid whim or reason they can find to get in our face.
The only thing that changes in society is who the current power brokers are, it was once the church, and now it is (arguably) and even worse group of moralistic morons all be it with odd morals and a detachment from reality.
You know this is true because you now can’t publicly express a moderate opinion on certain ‘issues’ without being shouted down and persecuted in a manner not dis-similar to those that once criticized organised religion in it’s hey day.
With a few exceptions ( PG et al), the usual bunch of left wing, conspiracy theory, dick heads this Sunday morning.
Grow up children. The world is real and it bears no resemblance to your dreams.
Map: Mood of the nation Report cards from around the regions
One hundred per cent pure God’s Own. The land of the long white cloud and the home of short tailed bat (probably extinct).
The place where we speak in aphorism, cliche and well-worn metaphor. Where we are operating on a ”hand out mentality”, but have ”everything going for us”. Where the people are ”resilient” but retailers are ”fragile”. Where we say the average wage is not keeping up with the cost of living while declaring Winston Peters to be ”the only one honest enough to let people know what’s going on”.
Sad when we have a proven liar so popular but I guess the lefties have to go somewhere other than Labour when they don’t like the Greens. The cons have no idea about their true beliefs so Winston is the winner.
Do others start to feel like its time we jopined the exodus when we see this crap and listen to the likes of Hone and Peters from the same tribe playing good cop and bad cop on the Telly?
To bolster your worthless economic anti-immigration argument you go off at a tanget and link to an old item about, er, exponential population growth.
You do realise that, in immigration terms, the word “alien” doesn’t mean beings from another planet? We are simply talking about existing people moving from one place to another.
Thus, I assure you, if you decide to move from the South Island to the North, or vice versa, the population of the World doesn’t change.
As part of the test a vehicle is driven into a 1.5 metre rigid barrier at 65 kmh with only 25 per cent of the driver’s side of the vehicle actually making contact with the barrier. The test simulates what happens when two vehicles clip one another on a local road where one driver might inadvertently cross the centre line, or where a vehicle hits a tree or utility pole. This is not an uncommon situation in New Zealand, where drivers do tend to hog the centre line on the highway.
The Acura TL by Honda and the Volvo S60 were the only cars that passed the test with a “good” rating, with the Infiniti G gaining an “acceptable”. Those vehicles that scored a “marginal” rating included Honda’s Acura TSX, the BMW 3-Series, Lincoln’s MKZ and the Volkswagen CC, while the Audi A4, Lexus ES 350, Lexus IS 250/350 and Mercedes-Benz C-Class were all rated “poor”.
Car crash test unearths surprise
With the aim of influencing the world car industry and national transport safety institutions, the influential US insurance trade group Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, or IIHS, has launched a new “partial-front” crash test designed to better simulate a common real-world crash situation than many government barrier tests do.
“The new IIHS test differs markedly from those currently used – and from the standards manufacturers are required to meet under federal law. Nonetheless, it is designed to simulate the sort of frontal collisions that are responsible for a large share of those deaths”, says Lund. http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/7577908/Car-crash-test-unearths-surprise
Interesting. Testing based on collected crash statistics. BMW and Merc’s fail.
Why do some atheists hate Christianity with a passion bordering on religious fervour, yet pretty much give every other religion a pass? I must have missed something, having lived most of my life as an atheist yet never having been so tormented by Christians that I have to lace every comment about them with such hate and derision.
The ownership of water in underground aquifers is a little murkier than that of rivers and lakes. The tribunal says some of the country’s aquifers are owned by Maori. Those where taniwha lurk. Again, I am not making this up.
Grown-ups have written this report. And you work each week to pay them to do it. It’s extraordinary stuff.
Tribunal enraptured by myths and folk legends
By Rodney Hide
5:30 AM Sunday Sep 2, 2012
Who would have believed it? Singing a song can make a river yours. Plus give you a chunk of a power company and a say over how that company’s run.
they dress the hatred up in the language of liberty and equality,but it is very transparent bigotry.
As the Christian tradition is one of the foundatons of western civilization one can only wonder what the motivation for the constant,relentless and vitriolic attacks are.
don’t pandy to the trolls then. Treat them like leppers and send then away to fill some other blog with thier strident protests and rambling incoherancies.
The ownership of water in underground aquifers is a little murkier than that of rivers and lakes. The tribunal says some of the country’s aquifers are owned by Maori. Those where taniwha lurk. Again, I am not making this up.
Grown-ups have written this report. And you work each week to pay them to do it. It’s extraordinary stuff.
Tribunal enraptured by myths and folk legends
By Rodney Hide
5:30 AM Sunday Sep 2, 2012
Who would have believed it? Singing a song can make a river yours. Plus give you a chunk of a power company and a say over how that company’s run.
Nobody has to put up with the Stone Age myths propagated by these greedy and ignorant tribes.
The taniwha is rubbish, crap, manure, whatever you want to call it.
If I understand correctly, the magical pixies that Christians believe in are real but the magical pixies that Maori believe in are not.
There you go – just proved my point. Bang on the Christians and let EVERY other religion off the hook. Your comment should read “If I understand correctly, the magical pixies that all major religions believe in are real but the magical pixies that Maori believe in are not”
And for the record, None of the Maori I know believe in their cultural magical pixies either.
wat dabney (1,851) Says:
Never let facts get in the way when you are on one of your tiresomely regular anti-immigration rants, eh hj.
…………………………………………………………………….
High immigration to New Zealand has contributed to the country’s national savings woes by increasing Government spending, business borrowing costs and pumping up house prices, according to a taskforce charged with finding solutions to rising foreign debt.
Among a raft of other recommendations aimed at boosting the country’s flagging savings rate, both nationally and at a household level, the Savings Working Group (SWG) suggests Government give the matter of immigration some “serious consideration.”
In its 160-page report to Finance Minister Bill English tabled this week in Wellington, the SWG suggests greater control of migration could be a means of reducing house prices and ramping up national savings.
“In a country with a relatively low national savings rate, rapid population growth will put sustained upward pressure on real interest rates and, in turn, the real exchange rate, making it harder to achieve the per capita income gains that people (and the government) aspire to,” the report states.
Group member Andrew Coleman, an economics lecturer and consultant, said despite obvious sensitivities the issue warranted attention amid what is shaping up to be a national debate on how to deal with New Zealand’s mounting foreign debt.
We’re not anti-immigration but we are saying it’s something we need to look at,” Colemand said. “If we are concerned about disruptive change caused by debt levels in response to natural outcomes of migration, then we want to make sure it is occurring at a rate that isn’t getting us into trouble,” he said.
In its report , the SWG theorises that if net immigration flows were held at 1980- levels, the country’s net foreign liabilities could be 20% lower than its current rate of 85% debt to GDP
“This is a critical difference in terms of vulnerability and growth and arises because new residents require new capital stock immediately, which must be paid for…increasing the need for foreign borrowing.”
In a study for the Government in 2006, the Productivity Commission modelled a 50 per cent increase in the skilled migration program (an increase that eventuated in subsequent years.) That substantial increase in skilled migration was projected to yield an estimated gain in annual per capita income of just 0.7 per cent ($320) and only after 20 years. It was swamped by other, domestic drivers of productivity growth. Moreover, most of the aggregate gain accrued to migrants themselves — the average incomes of the population existing in ‘year zero’ actually declined slightly.
The finding that the effects are generally small is similar to that of previous studies, both here and overseas. There are two, commonsense, reasons for it:
First, the ‘flow’ of (extra) migrants is small relative to the ‘stock’ of the existing population and labour force.
Second, the forces that determine the effects on the incomes of the existing population often offset each other, and some of the effects wash out in the long run.
It is also a fallacy that higher immigration counteracts population ageing. Beyond an annual immigration level of around 100 000 people, the demographic benefits have been shown to diminish greatly, with migrants impacting much more on the size of the population than on its age structure. The main reason is that migrants age too! We would need to bring in increasingly more of them to ‘backfill’ the age structure over time. Indeed, the Commission calculated that to preserve the current age profile of the population, the immigration-to-population ratio would need to rise to three per cent (triple its peak of 2008-9). This would make Australia a population ‘super-power’ of 100+ million people by mid-century! http://www.pc.gov.au/research/conference-proceedings/sustainable-population
Some important events in the rise of western civilisation
the renascence When the shackles of Christian dogma were broken and it became ok to revisit the knowledge available pre Christianity
the reformation when the power of Rome was destroyed again freeing civilization from Christian dogma
Darwin again freeing science from dogma
notice when we kill stupid religion we move forward as a species
And Brian Smaller your anti stone age superstitions rant is the same as my anti Christian posts ie anti primal superstition
this is a liberal blog if you don’t cope well with liberal ideas expect to be corrected or fuck of to some Christian conservative wilderness
Ambitious individuals work in the democraticly built NZ economy, and it is to their advantage and ours to do so as it pays for stuff like services – that is why it was built in the first place, it is also why we maintain it.
The unambitious are therefor not disadvantaged. They are two entirely seperate matters. The Labour lead left need to realise that.
Constructing an economy and society that caters to the unambitious AND to the disadvantaged is not progressive – but slow, mundane and dying.
For the unambitious to be better off, as they have been in the past, then the economy would have too do what it has done in the past – expand into areas where there is a demand for the skills of the unambitious so as they can get better pay to pay the cost of basic bills to be as better off as they have been before.But unlike before in the 60′s & 70′s where houses, rents, power, petrol, milk, cheese, fruit and vegtables were cheap and T’Vs, clothes and furniture where exspensive, it has reversed.The basic cost of living is expensive.Not as much is left over to save after basic bills have been paid.That’s really why home ownership is less affordable.
The labour lead left has started to subsidise the unambitious by letting them pay less tax via WFF payments etc to maintain the basic costs of living that they can no longer afford. They tax the ambitious more to do this.
Or, if it is a case of ‘less opportunities’ for the unambitious to capitalise on, then why is Labour siding with the Greens and Mana in wanting to ‘shrink’ the economy by creating more legislation, more government departments and staff, and evermore government services that are now increasingly being paid for by the ambitious?
Restricting business means that less money and skills are deployed to the private sector where the ‘ambitious few’ create ‘taxes’ for these services to be provided, and for the disadvantaged to be paid for. I thought Labour liked more taxes.
It would be folly of the highest order to vote the Labour lead left into government at the next election – it is simply unsound to do so. Things just don’t add up.Costly to all individuals and to the State.
The Labour led left can’t possably win the next election under the current economic and social conditions that NZ is currently in.
Unless of course Labour is willing to again steal from the Conservatives as Douglas and Lange did – from Thatcher and Reagan.
NZ women are more than capable to sit on boards and run private schools and hospitals.
Griff making idiotic statements for 3 years and displaying his total ignorance of history – what you’d expect from a screaming raving liberal progressive.
The Craigs Investment servers have not coped with the registration requests and have crashed and died. But once they are back up and running, I am sure myself and thousands of others will head straight back to register our interest.
griff believes that the godless ideological wars between the Soviets and the Nazis,as well as the communist purges in Russia,China,Cambodia etc are the species “evolving”.
I find it very interesting when states find their back to the wall and feel the need to mobilise to fight tyranny and evil that there is so often an appeal to religion. This is evident in the Frank Capra, Why We Fight series.The greatest secular democracy in the world made an appeal to religion to motivate its fighting men. When the “species” is most threatened an appeal to a deeper side of human nature,one that does not exist in the animal world, a thoughtful and reasoned selfless sacrifice for the common good against evil.
Even Stalin had to dag God back onto the political stage when the Germans were at the gates of Moscow.
The “reformation” was not a repudiation of Christianity. It was initially an attempt to “reform” the Church. The new Protestant states were no less Christian than the old Catholic ones. Even the much vaunted Dutch Republic was deeply Christian.
Harriet (470) Says:
Ambitious individuals work in the democraticly built NZ economy, and it is to their advantage and ours to do so as it pays for stuff like services – that is why it was built in the first place, it is also why we maintain it.
The unambitious are therefor not disadvantaged. They are two entirely seperate matters. The Labour lead left need to realise that.
Constructing an economy and society that caters to the unambitious AND to the disadvantaged is not progressive – but slow, mundane and dying.
………………….
A lot of relatively unambitious people just get on with life, helping to lay concrete driveway, adding a deck. Meanwhile the ambitious person is off to a property seminar and comes away with eyes aglow and plans to invest and capture the wealth of the community by borrowing OPM and exploiting asset inflation. The deficit is made up by the last person in the chain (first home buyer or renter). And the property investor has become a big patron of the government.
Another belief I hold is that all New Zealand children should have equal access to housing, food, clothes and education.
They do. The only reason they might not be permitted access is because their parents have equal access to booze, smokes, drugs, Sky TV, 2 litre cokes, crunchy crappo cruskety bits of shit and the TAB. That and the fact that they have useless parents who produce children with no other motivation than unprotected satisfaction of sexual urges.
Not quite correct. They didn’t start getting their own back until about 400 AD so let’s just say 1600 years. Fair to say though, they certainly made up for what they copped and then some.
To bolster your worthless economic anti-immigration argument you go off at a tanget and link to an old item about, er, exponential population growth.
You do realise that, in immigration terms, the word “alien” doesn’t mean beings from another planet? We are simply talking about existing people moving from one place to another.
Thus, I assure you, if you decide to move from the South Island to the North, or vice versa, the population of the World doesn’t change.
………………………………..
Form the “old” (stale, discredited not) video [warning: libertarians will be pooing their pants] http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/arithmetic-population-and-energy-lecture/:
If a chessboard were to have wheat placed upon each square such that one grain were placed on the first square, two on the second, four on the third, and so on (doubling the number of grains on each subsequent square), how many grains of wheat would be on the chessboard at the finish?
………….
He’s smarter than you Watt.
Continuing a conversation with Griff from yesterday that I had to cut short due to it being party time …
He had commented that the US Democrat Party was to the right of the NZ National Party and since this is a frequent claim of the left in NZ I thought I would ask him to list the reasons he would give as a former ACT member, and he did so here. And this is my response:
Tom we are a socialist state. yes /no?
“True” socialists would argue that we’re not, but leaving that argument of communists and libertarian socialists to one side, even they would readily accept that the USA is more right-wing than NZ.
But that’s not the point here: we’re talking about what political parties are advocating, not what the culture dictates. So …
free health care universal mostly provided by state run institutions
It usually escapes people’s notice but the USA is a 50:50 health system in terms of private/public funding, whereas we’re about 20:80.
But again, the comparison should be between what the respective parties are advocating versus what institution is in place. And what the Democrats have been advocating for decades – at least as far back as Truman – is a national health care system like ours or Britain’s, while the National Party here simply accepts the status quo. At best that puts them on level pegging in the left-right ideological stakes.
free education to tertiary level central government run and owned universal
In 2010 the Democrats (House, Senate and President) passed legislation that puts the US government behind all student loans, and since most universities in the US are as dependent on the resultant student fees as NZ universities (excepting those like Harvard that have huge endowments) the situation is now little different from NZ.
But again, the point is that the Democrats advocated for this for years – again with an eye on developing a government-backed system more like that of our old university system – while National (and Labour) moved in the opposite ideological direction. And of course on the education front the Democrats are constantly pushing the declining public school system, while here in NZ National is going in the other ideological direction.
full non-contributory superannuation universal non means tested
Eh? Aside from FDR’s rubbish about the infamous ‘trust fund’, there is very little practical difference between Superannuation and Social Security. Both are universal, non-means-tested systems that rely on taxation, with the US having a specific, payroll-based tax rather than coming out of general taxation like ours.
Given that both Labour and National have advocated moving away from this system and have actually done so via things like Kiwisaver – and given that the Democrats fiercely resisted proposals to make Social Security more like a private-sector pension system – that makes the US Democrats more left-wing than National.
Acc no sue no fault universal accident insurance
As opposed to the US system of workers compensation using private sector insurance schemes.
The Democrats are certainly not proposing a shift to an NZ-type system but are living with the status quo, so that could make them more right-wing than National in NZ. But National are moving the NZ system to a more private-sector style system, so that puts them at least on the same ideological level as the Democrats.
All facets of socialism supported by all major representative party’s
Aside from Health, all of these institutions in NZ have had changes either made to them or advocated for them by both National and Labour that are non-socialistic. By contrast in the USA the Democrats have been advocating changes to most of these institutions (e.g. healthcare) that are socialistic or preserving them as such (Social Security and Medicare).
Obumers chance of introducing these socialist ideals into the good old USA……. nil
Once again, the end-result is not the point in comparing the ideological desires of the respective parties, the advocacy is. For example, I know of few Democrats who were happy with the compromises of Obamacare: they wanted a US NHS and they still want that.
That makes them as ‘left-wing’ as National/Labour on this issue alone – and that’s before we look at the areas of social issues like abortion and gay rights, where the Democrats lag NZ Labour but are level-pegging with National. You could make a better argument by looking at things like gun control – but even there it’s a matter of seeing the difference between the advocacy of a party and the constraints the society places on what that advocacy achieves. Democratic politicians don’t push gun control because it’s proved to be a vote loser – but the Democrat base and most of their voters are very much advocates of it.
So basically, the argument that the US Democrats are to the right of NZ National is crap. Given the degree of ‘socialism’ that exists in the USA that should not be a surprise.
However, that won’t stop NZ lefties continuing to run this line all the time for the simple purpose of deligitimising capitalist, right-wing arguments before they’re even made; Don’t listen to them, they’re American ideas – America in the common mind, still being the font of such “extremist” horrors (who can forget the “American bagmen”).
It’s just sad to see an ACT member buy into the same meme. No wonder the party died.
“….A lot of relatively unambitious people just get on with life, helping to lay concrete driveway, adding a deck. Meanwhile the ambitious person is off to a property seminar and comes away with eyes aglow and plans to invest and capture the wealth of the community by borrowing OPM and exploiting asset inflation. The deficit is made up by the last person in the chain (first home buyer or renter). And the property investor has become a big patron of the government….”
Yep -
We should all lay our own concrete driveways and build decks.
And no one should be allowed to do these jobs for an income either – or be property sales people, conveyancors, accountants or lastly work in the public service as a tax inspector.
All outlawed by komrade hj – under his Ambitious Subtraction Model.
“It was estimated that the immigrant population, of 927,000, had a positive net fiscal impact of $3,288 million in 2005/06. The New Zealand-born population of 3.1 million had a lower net fiscal impact of $2,838 million. In total, migrants contributed 40 percent more to government revenue than they received in government expenditure…We conclude that immigration has made a positive contribution to economic outcomes in New Zealand, and that fears for negative economic impacts such as net fiscal costs, house price inflation, and increasing unemployment are largely unfounded.” http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/synthesis-research/synthesis-research_10.asp
And remember, that’s without counting the benefits to the migrants and their families themselves.
“It was estimated that the immigrant population, of 927,000, had a positive net fiscal impact of $3,288 million in 2005/06. The New Zealand-born population of 3.1 million had a lower net fiscal impact of $2,838 million. In total, migrants contributed 40 percent more to government revenue than they received in government expenditure…We conclude that immigration has made a positive contribution to economic outcomes in New Zealand, and that fears for negative economic impacts such as net fiscal costs, house price inflation, and increasing unemployment are largely unfounded.” http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/synthesis-research/synthesis-research_10.asp
And remember, that’s without counting the benefits to the migrants and their families themselves.
That does NOT mean that EVERY immigrant is of benefit to NZ.
Immigratuion policy is not built upon the notion of CHARITY.
Why should refugee’s be made to ‘jump through hoops’ to be allowed into NZ -yet- we welcome people into the country under ‘general migration’ who don’t contribute?
For that matter neither is every native-born New Zealander of wider economic benefit, and they are no more deserving of our charity than someone born on the other side of an arbitrary line on the map.
A moral immigration policy is one that respects a person’s right to live and work wherever they please.
Rolf Buchholz – Most Pierced Man
The world’s most pierced man, Rolf Buchholz, of Dortmund, Germany, has 453 studs and rings all over his body, including 94 piercings in and around his lips, 25 in his eyebrows, eight in his nose and 278 in his genital area.
World’s Tallest Lego Tower
Legos aren’t just for playing around. A team of 6,000 block enthusiasts in Sao Paulo, Brazil, has put together what is reportedly the world’s tallest Lego tower. The structure, which rises 102 feet 3 inches, tops a previous record set in Santiago, Chile. [Isn't it amazing the lego bricks at the bottom can still support all of that]
Watt, show me how that study accounts for the cost of providing new motorways, schools, hospitals etc for the 80% of our off shore population growth?
Isn’t it interesting that the experts (chosen by the government) of the Savings Working Group ignored the findings of that study?
And that every property expert agrees that immigration (population increase) puts up house prices and rents. Interesting also that the relationship between immigration and house prices was different to overseas studies.
All in all look at Auckland’s house prices, infrastructure problems, congestion and ponder Minister Coleman’s claim that “immigration benefits everyone”
Yeah right!
Kiwi exporters are fuming at Chinese infant formula makers falsely claiming their product is made in New Zealand.
Around 20 Chinese manufacturers blatantly tried to pass off their infant formula as New Zealand-made at a major Mother and Baby expo in Shanghai recently.
Companies promoted infant formula as “Made in New Zealand” and even included the Trade and Enterprise fern logo which is a registered trademark in China. One used a picture of the Prime Minister – comically mispelling his name as “Jhon Key” – next to a quote “I Love abid”.
Another company photo-shopped a Shanghai factory on to a picture of Canterbury countryside.
To compete, Kiwi-made infant formula companies hired models, including former Miss New Zealand contestant Avianca Bohm, to promote their product.
Your argument centres around the idealogical aims of the democratic party not its public policy’s
There are some in national that are right wing but the public policy’s of the party are definitely more to the left of what the democrats campaign on
the same for labour there are Marxist and socialist factions in the party yet their public policy’s are more to the centre. That is the nature of politics
you are conflagration the public policys and idealogical aims FFS look at the debate on asset sales can u imagine democrats campaigning on purchasing a minority interest in power company’s or health providers. National just spent the last election campaigning on selling only up to 49% of power company’s and just scraped in could u imagine the result if they tried selling a stake in our national health service
Can you imagine national campaigning on a full contributory or even means tested pension scheme They will not key will not even allow it onto the table
acc is state run insurance with the no fault clause national has talked of giving some leeway for private schemes in the past yet has not campaign on it or reinstitute the ability to sue it would be political suicide from within has own party
The reason I was a member of act is having a more right wing faction in government such as act allowed national to institute right wing policy yet insulate its self from the political consequences Like they used Act and Hidey to insulate national from the amalgamation of Auckland
to many are un educated in the possibility’s under MMP that’s why only one party has traction to the right of centre so far
When the slowly sinking Labour Party gets absorbed into the Greens obviously some of the old slogans, policies & even traditional working class songs will have to be changed. To this end this rewrite posted on Whale’s site by ‘Joe Blogs’ earlier today is inspirational:
“……. that revered Leftard anthem – The Battle Hymn of the New Socialists:
The working class can kiss my ass
I’m on the bludger’s dole at last.
You can tell old John I’m on the dole
He can stick his Blue Flag up his ‘ole!
Then raise the Benefit on high!
Beneath its shroud we’ll gladly die!
Though all our critics do shout, “Balls!”
They’ll be beneath it when it falls.
And just to show we’re still sincere
We’ll sing The Red Flag once a year.”
Kiwi exporters are fuming at Chinese infant formula makers falsely claiming their product is made in New Zealand.
Whomever it was in Fonterra that had the marketing nous to either turn or preserve [probably both] Chinese public sentiment in the face of the San-Lu melamine issue, such that Chinese companies only a few short years later attempt to capitalise on the NZ brand, really does deserve knighthoods.
I’m quite glad Ferrier has decided to hang around and go to NZTE. I have no idea what his management style is, but by now he understands NZ Inc to the n’th degree and a lot of NZ exporters will be very prosperous in the coming years as a result of his leadership there, based on his track record.
The freedom to live and work where you choose is the right.
Passports and immigration restrictions are a modern evil.
Imagine if you were free to apply for jobs anywhere in the World. Imagine if people from the poorest countries could freely go and work in rich countries and send back remittances to their families, to help feed and educate their children.
hj,
You are suggesting that countries which have significant immigration do worse economically than those which don’t.
That doesn’t even pass the smell test mate. Frankly it’s ludicrous. The US, for example, has for decades been the most dynamic economy in the World and throughout that time has been famous as an immigrant destination.
What you are suggesting is that Australia is the loser when all those Kiwis go there to work, and New Zealand is the winner. Because, er, the remaining population is smaller.
Seriously?
Never heard of critical-mass and economies of scale? Do you imagine that, for example, a New Zealand population of just 1 million would mean people are wealthier? They would be peasants.
“show me how that study accounts for the cost of providing new motorways, schools, hospitals etc for the 80% of our off shore population growth?”
Like the one prepared by the Australian government, for example?
“While a larger population leads to a larger economy, the main issue is whether this expansion is accompanied by higher living standards. According to the PCPP, living standards, as measured by Gross National Product (GNP) per capita, are lower than would otherwise be the case for the first 12 years of the policy, but are then higher. After 20 years, the gain in GNP per capita reaches 0.6 per cent.” http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/pdf/Econtech_Comparison_Report.pdf
Continuing a conversation with Hamnida on last night’s GD.
Reid – If you Neolibs are so compassionate, then why not help out the 20% of New Zealand children living below the poverty line? Why not let the cleaner on $13.50 an hour earn a living wage? Why not pay your fair share so the elderly can have decent care?
Instead of beneficiary bashing, why not offer them a job?
Why not say the school my kids go to is good enough for all children?
Why not stand up to the CEO earning $5,000,000 a year while he contracts out other jobs to cut costs?
I answered two of those last night.
Why not pay your fair share so the elderly can have decent care?
We pay what the law requires us to pay, same as you. Therefore that is the fair share. How much more do you pay over and above your taxes? Personally I give in the low four figures to charities each year. How much do you give? Why is it that most lefties seem to hallucinate that conservatives, millions of them in your hallucination, earn squillions and never give a cent? Why don’t you have the discernment to recognise that’s a stereotype as deceptive and disgusting as any racial or sexual stereotype. Yet you lefties keep yammering on about it as if it’s true. Do you really truly know how much conservatives give to charity? Of course you don’t. Yet you make this glib assumption based on your own prejudice. Personally mate I find that extremely offensive personally and factually wrong in my own experience since all the conservatives I know well enough to ask them give heaps to charity, over and above their tax. Just because a few arseholes who don’t have their priorities straight like Hodgkins and Fay and Richwhite behave the way they do, does not make that a behavioural mold for every single conservative that exists, and since you lefties are so keen on avoiding stereotypes, that’s a distinction I’m amazed hasn’t sunk into your collective skulls.
Instead of beneficiary bashing, why not offer them a job?
Because I’m not an employer. Also, I’ve never “bashed” beneficiaries. Just because I recognise the reality that many people abuse the system, does not mean I’m bashing anyone. Lefties seem to live in fantasy land whereby no-one ever does anything wrong, if they’re poor, black, brown, gay, whatever. That’s a mental fucking attitude to hold, if you want to truly understand actual human behaviour as it occurs. If you offer someone a lifestyle, they will take it. Inter-generational and long-term beneficiaries of working age have been educated over decades into accepting a meagre straightened lifestyle which working people would not accept. But they do, because it’s all they know. When they walk past pubs and restaurants full of people drinking on Friday night and they can’t afford to go in, that’s not the fault of the people in those pubs and restaurants. It’s the fault of those people who over generations have educated those wonderful, capable creatures of light that they’re not worth anything more than a few hundy per week and that’s all they get. The answer to redressing that is not to give those people slightly more money, say 300 instead of 260 per week, it’s teaching them that, just like those people in those bars and restaurants on Friday night, they too can be like them and this is how. But lefties don’t do that, do they. No. All lefties ever talk about ever, on this subject, is how victimised these people are and how the lefties are there to fight the nasty system on their behalf and aren’t lefties therefore such heroic and good people for caring about them so very much. It makes me want to puke. Why the fuck don’t lefties start teaching these people how to fish, like everybody else does. That’s the answer mate.
Why not say the school my kids go to is good enough for all children?
Please elucidate. (I assume since lefty’s IQs are so very tremendous you won’t have to google the definition of that word.) I also hope you appreciate this eirenicon I’m making toward you.
Why not stand up to the CEO earning $5,000,000 a year while he contracts out other jobs to cut costs?
While I’m not too enamoured with the recent (last 20 years) stratospheric levels of executive rem, compared to that of the people who actually do the work, and while I think the whole corporate rem structure is tremendously skewed in favour of morons who get to play manager but who don’t have any fucking skillset whatsoever apart from slipping up their bosses arses, and that permeates modern corporates, while I think all that, you have to have someone at the top, and they have to have carte blanch to do what they think is necessary. If that involves cutting a % of the workforce, so be it. So what. Why is doing that deserving of condemnation, per se? An organisation, whether govt or private, is not there for the benefit of any one of its individual members, unless we’re all in Heaven. Since we aren’t, an organisation is there to accomplish work in the environment in which it operates. Period. Ruthless? Welcome to capitalism, my friend. And remember, while capitalism may not be perfect it is, to bastardise Churchill, better than any other alternative we’ve ever tried. And that’s a fact.
Hamnida via Reid “Why not say the school my kids go to is good enough for all children”
You can SAY it as much as you like but that wont make it true. If you are happy with near-enough-is-good-enough for your kids, thats fine, but dont limit what I can do for my kids.
bereal, meanwhile, Obama’s speeches are drawing awkward silences –
President Barack Obama was greeted with fleeting applause and extended periods of silence as he offered profuse praise to soldiers and their families during an Aug. 31 speech in Fort Bliss, Texas.
His praise for the soldiers — and for his own national-security policies — won cheers from only a small proportion of the soldiers and families in the cavernous aircraft-hanger.
The audience remains quiet even when the commander-in-chief thanked the soldiers’ families, and cited the 198 deaths of their comrades in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The audience’s reaction was so flat that the president tried twice to elicit a reaction from the crowd.
“Hey, I hear you,” he said amid silence.
The selected soldiers who were arrayed behind the president sat quietly throughout the speech.
CNN and MSNBC ended their coverage of the speech before it was half-over.
Oh dear! Even Obi’s loyal media didn’t stick around for the end.
Manolo, saw that as the lead story on One News tonight.
They also want insulation for all Maori houses in Auckland.
The whole plan would cost the taxpayer $300 million dollars.
What a waste of money. I really don’t see the purpose of learning a language that no one else in the world speaks. Seems pointless. We may as well make learning Javascript compulsory. At least that would be useful.
Any of you remember what Iran did with the US hostages the very day after the origional ‘Great apologiser’
jimmy carter lost to Ronald Reagan.
Remember.
Democracy depends upon a Republican president of the USA.
Kea Roa Manolo. I for one will embrace the Murri languwidge and forever praise Mount Egmont while showing proper pronunciation for places like Wackertain and Whynewiormater and Wongarnewi.
I suggest we all accept the inevitable and do the same!
Karen Vaughn, mother of fallen Navy SEAL Aaron Carson Vaughn, reacts to Barack Hussein Obama’s nauseatingly narcissistic campaign ad, “One Chance.” Karen and Billy Vaughn lost their son, Aaron, last year in Afghanistan.
Sadly Bereal, I don’t have one. I don’t know enough about the list but none of the present senior US leadership on either side, offer anything new which will be positive, to me.
A Catholic priest, a Boy Scout leader and a lawyer take some boys out on an adventure trip. On the flight over, there is engine trouble and the plane is about to go down.
“We have a problem”, says the pilot. “There are only three parachutes!”
The Boy Scout leader suggests they give them to the boys.
Once Redcliffs was an unprepossessing fishing village, distinguished by a collection of modest fishermen’s cottages. Most have now dissapeared, replaced by more luxurious residences, and property values have escalated.
“It’s a standing joke that we’re being taken over by the Americans and British, who have taken advantage of the stronger property markets in their own countires and favourable exchange rates”
“I know an English couple who have summer here and go back to England in the winter”
“What other parts of the city have such nice walks?…..
The Department of Labour Study would dispute that.
Do i take it then that an erudite observer such as your good self is unable to decide between Romney and Obama.
It’s like a choice between Stalin or Hitler bereal.
Which one would you chose?
It’s almost enough evidence reid to make a pagan like me believe in re-incarnation.
Johnboy we are spiritual beings having a temporary physical experience. Life on this planet is a school and the extent to which you love others and do right by them by helping them to advance, is the extent to which you advance yourself. Let it be.
When thinking about immigration it is important to recognize that its impact on the size of the economy is not a measure of the benefit to natives. There is no question that U.S. GDP is significantly larger because of immigrant workers. However, a larger economy is entirely irrelevant to the key question of whether the per-capita GDP of natives is higher because of immigration. Efforts to measure the impact of immigration on the per-capita GDP of Americans using the standard economic model show that the benefit is trivial relative to the size of the economy. Perhaps most important, these trivial gains are the result of reduced wages for American workers in competition with immigrants. These workers tend to be the least educated and poorest already. If there is no wage reduction, then there is no economic gain. Finally, the tiny economic gain is probably entirely offset by the fiscal drain immigrants create on taxpayers.
In the end, arguments for or against immigration are as much political and moral as they are economic. The latest research indicates that we can reduce immigration without harming the economy. Doing so makes sense if we are very concerned about low-wage and less-educated workers in the United States. On the other hand, if one places a high priority on helping unskilled workers in other countries, then we should continue to allow in a large number of such workers. Of course, only an infinitesimal proportion of the world’s poor could ever come to this country even under the most open immigration policy one might imagine. Those who support the current high level of immigration should at least understand that the American workers harmed by the policies they favor are already the poorest and most vulnerable. http://www.cis.org/node/2294
Our government is looking after it’s political patrons.
A farmhand is driving ’round the farm, checking the fences.
After a few minutes he radios his boss and says, “Boss, I’ve got a problem.
I hit a pig on the road and he’s stuck in the bull-bars of my truck.
He’s still wriggling – what should I do?
“In the back of your truck there’s a shotgun. Shoot the pig in the head and when it stops wriggling you can pull it out and throw it in a bush.”
The farm worker says okay and signs off. About 10 minutes later he radios back.
“Boss I did what you said, I shot the pig and dragged it out and threw it in a bush.”
“So what’s the problem now?” his Boss snapped.
“The blue light on his motorcycle is still flashing!”
Spoken out of ignorance. Anybody who knows Judge Neave is aware that such a statement is completely and utterly false.
On a more interesting topic:
Why do so many lefties have such hatred in them? I read Matt McCarten’s opinion piece in today’s Herald and I am just amazed at the hatred and bile that he has towards the right. This is not just disagreement with the politics, this is genuine animosity. (Look at Hamnida continually using the term ‘neolibs’ as an ad hominem; does he/she not realise that most of us here on KB are actually classic liberals, so calling us ‘neolibs’ is simply putting us within one part of the overall liberal democratic [as opposed to social democratic] fold? Hamnida, it isn’t an insult. You are merely displaying your animosity.)
Apparently Romny and Ryan oppose Obama because they are racist. And to think that I thought it was because they disagreed with his policies.
People who question Julia Gillard are, apparently, misogynist and sexist. Whereas I always thought it was simply because they opposed her policies.
Apparently the left do not think that it is possible to reasonably oppose left wing policies, so the real reason must be personal animosity. Hatred of women (and right-wing/conservative women must be self-hating) and hatred of non-whites (with non-white right-wing/conservatives being Uncle Toms).
Apparently, (and didn’t I read something like this today on KB?) right-wing people are not intelligent enough to actually have real beliefs (other than in a sky fairy) or policies that may be different to the lefties, so the only answer must be contrarian hatred of everyone who is not them.
Putting aside the astonishing leaps of logic that must be used to get such a belief, it merely staggers me every time I read sites like the Standard, or Daily Kos, or even any NZ or Australian Fairfax political columnist, how much the left absolutely hates the right, but rather than seeing their own hatred for what it is instead ascribes it to their opponents.
I know that there is no real way to change this, but I just wanted to note it here.
And, lefties, for what it is worth: we don’t hate you. We just disagree with you.
Because they truly imagine they’re the only ones on this planet who truly really actually in fact give a stuff about their fellow human beings FES.
I know.
Aren’t they mental.
Of course as a consequence it causes some of us, well me at least, to rise up in furious anger, Pulp Fiction style and maybe they somehow detect that through their devious lefty means, so their reaction against that might have something to do with it as well. But either way, it’s their fault and they’re still mental.
I donate in the early four figures too. Three charities at $40 per month each plus $5 – $10 for street collections. That said, I don’t believe philanthropy is an excuse for not paying taxes. The conditions some elderly people have to live in are just unacceptable. I would happily pay a top tax rate of 39% to ensure they live their final months with dignity. Like my views on the young, I believe the elderly should have equal access to care regardless of prior income or asset wealth.
Beneficiary bashing
You say you don’t bash beneficiaries, but then take a massive swipe at them. The reality is you’re not eating in restaurants and drinking in bars if you’re on the benefit. It doesn’t provide that kind of disposable income.
In my view, education is the key. If you are on the benefit and unlikely to get a job within a month, you must undertake further education or training. No sitting at home doing nothing. In return, the State makes you have enough to live on without sliding into debt. A Western European style welfare system of dual responsibility between citizen and state.
Education and schools
I was referring to the separation between high decile/private schools and low decile ones. Despite the higher levels of per pupil funding low decile schools receive, you don’t have to be a genius to work out higher decile and private schools are better resourced. They do this by charging higher donations or fees, and working the old boy/girl networks.
My solution is equal access to high quality education for all children.
Income disparity
I find it obscene that a CEO can earn $5,000,000, while paying call centre operators in the Philippines NZ$2 an hour in the same firm. The same CEO contracted out maintenance jobs for the sake of shaving a further few dollars an hour from payroll.
I’m not saying someone earning $100,000 a year has to start paying more tax for another person on $60,000 a year. But I am saying someone on $5,000,000 has to pay more tax so a minimum wage earner doesn’t have to work 60 hours a week.
Income disparity in New Zealand has increased more than any other OECD country in the last 20 years.
I find it obscene that a CEO can earn $5,000,000, while paying call centre operators in the Philippines NZ$2 an hour in the same firm. The same CEO contracted out maintenance jobs for the sake of shaving a further few dollars an hour from payroll.
1. Seems like a CEO doing his/her job to me.
2. Isn’t the CEO’s salary a decision made at Board level? So why is it the fault of the CEO that the Board pay him/her a lot of money?
3. If your employer offered you a salary of, say, $500,000 per year, would you voluntarily ask for it to be reduced?
But I am saying someone on $5,000,000 has to pay more tax so a minimum wage earner doesn’t have to work 60 hours a week.
How does someone paying more tax give a minimum wage earner more money? Or do you actually mean
“I am saying that someone on $5,000,000 per year has to pay more tax so that a minimum wage earner can get a (bigger) hand out from the government”?
I don’t believe philanthropy is an excuse for not paying taxes.
Neither do I. Read what I said about that, again. Also, life is about choices Hamnida. It’s a real shame Commanding Heights has disappeared behind the paywall because it would, if you had an open mind, teach you something you don’t know yet. But essentially, it’s not society’s job to insulate people from their own poor choices. It’s society’s job to educate people, but if people don’t take advantage of that opportunity, which is the case with many beneficiaries, that’s not society’s fault. It’s normally the fault of their parents, actually. See philu is a beneficiary but I guarantee you his son has had a good education and I guarantee you he will earn much, much more than his dad ever has. This is but one example and there are thousands of others which prove, beyond a shadow of doubt, that’s it’s not the circumstances, but the attitude of the parents that is the critical factor in getting out of the beneficiary trap. It’s to the lefty’s enduring shame that for their own selfish electoral purposes, they perpetuate the myth, and it is a myth, that circumstances, some hidden, unmentioned evil, keeps people from climbing out. If only the lefties would drop that bullshit, society would explode with achievement. But they won’t, because they depend on victims for their votes and if people aren’t victims anymore, the left wouldn’t need to exist, and that’s why they do it Hamnida.
It’s quite obvious that CEO’s on $5,000,000 a year should pay hugely more tax so scumbag lawyers, on say $500,000 a year sponging off legal aid, could earn substantially more hence allowing their heads to expand to a size that may almost accommodate their ego’s!
I am just amazed at the hatred and bile that he has towards the right. This is not just disagreement with the politics, this is genuine animosity.
I think you should read this article FES – Obama’s Skin – you’ll find some discussion of this notion:
But behind that is this fundamental component of the liberal world view: the conviction that their view of the world is the sole virtuous view. This has been the case at least since Robespierre appropriated Rousseau’s hot-house notion of virtue: the virtuous man is not he who acts in a virtuous way, but he who is intoxicated by the spectacle of his own virtuous feelings.
Take a look at the behavior of the Occupy crowd, of Code Pink, of the Greens, of the left flank of the Democratic Party. Dissent from their point of view is not regarded as a different opinion: it is rejected as heresy, as the benighted machinations of people who are not just misguided but downright evil.
As the writer points out it’s been this way since the days of Robespierre, so it’s not likely to change.
bereal you on the piss again
why is it that everyone attacks FES he is always polite and well considered
He has changed my view on an issue more than once there are few others that I could say the same about
hes a lawyer and he is free
One of the best deals anyone on here will ever see
So Griff,
You agree with the comments of ‘Judge’ Neale also it seems.
Well then we have a trio of effing idiots.
No, let me rephrase that.
we can see where ‘Judge’ Neale is comming from.
The old boys (Auckland Club set) (Northern Club set)
we can see where a flea lawyer like F E Smith is comming from ( a suckarse crawler hoping to gain some personal
advantage probably not yet a member but hoping to suck his way into a nomination)
Now we have two deciples of F E Smith
Griff and big bruv
Well, what a crew, “Judge” Neale will be gratified to have the endorsement of such an illustrious group
of three.
Thing is morons like Griff and bb have no skin in the game (other than to suck up to F E Smith)
F E Smith is hoping this will help his elevation to the bench.
Tip F E Smith, find some way to involve incorporating the Treaty into your argument.
F E Smith,
No.
Friendship is not enough.
In fact that would have to be the most pathetic reason you could come up with.
Typical of your ilk.
Instead of sucking up to judge Neale why not try to justify his comments with logic ?
Now that would be beyond the capability of a flea lawyer, Right ?
September 2nd, 2012 at 8:13 am
Oh dear; which political party has been busted again for hiring people to do their public bidding? This time it’s worse though, because they’ve hidden behind a PR agency, but the whistle’s been blown nonetheless. Four grand (of public money?) for five weeks’ work plus food, accommodation and travel is good dosh.
And to think; the Greens used to pride themselves on being principled…
http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/blowing-whistle.html
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:16 am
Comment on Spoonley post Public address 3 yrs ago. Prior report from Savings Working Group and Australian Productivity Commision.
“I’ll go out a limb and present a different point of view. Our treatment and attitude to migrants reflects a wider diffidence to immigration amongst New Zealanders in general. If, as Brickley Paiste claims,
The truth is that non-white and non-English speaking immigrants to this country feel no particular sentimental loyalty to NZ. Most of them I speak to, and I speak to many, want to move to Aussie/Canada/USA.
then I would suggest the feeling is mutual amongst a large body of New Zealanders who would be happy to see the back of them.
The “drive to multi-culturalism” as it has been put above was yet another ‘reform” driven from above with little consultation about the numbers, consequences or wisdom of it all, and the result has been a significant and on on-going form of subtle apartheid. Ask around – every migrant knows Pakeha will always prefer a Pakeha over a migrant, that most jobs are not advertised and instead rely on networks of patronage that they don’t have access to and that most New Zealanders know this and actively prefer to keep immigrants locked out of as much of the economy as possible.
Personally I’ll be honest and say I became deeply ambivilant about immigration when i realised that our precious social security system, something my parents and grandparents built with the sweat of their brows, would be unlikely to survive the strains of an encounter with mass migration. Put simply, I prefer the certainties of the homogenity and shared values of my culture that gave us the historic social contract that built New Zealand to the dubious advantages of simply importing people to fuel economic growth.
Let’s be honest here – the Scandinavian countries whose comprehensive welfare systems and progressive policices we so admire can only afford to do so because they maintain a cultural and ethnic homogenity and they strictly control immigration. When things go wrong, as in Holland where the legacy of empire includes a significant Moslem minority, these countries react by trying to enforce conformity.
If we are to have immigration then it seems to me the lessons of other countries says it is form of cultural genocide for the local population to try and embrace a nebulous and unworkable idea of “diversity.” You must insist on assimilation, and structure our policies toward migration on that basis.
I suppose at the end of the day I just ask myself the question – if a country has no shared cultural, racial or social values what sort of country is it? Is it a country worth speaking of at all? Do we really want to becomejust another babelling tower – fractured, fractious, over-crowded and polluted?
……..
Russel Brown 3 yeras ago
If you’re going to “be honest”, look up some numbers. Canada has the highest per capita net immigration rate in the world and still manages to be quite admirable. Spain, which has absorbed more than three million immigrants since 2000, is flourishing. Immigration to Norway is at record levels.
And really, even in New Zealand, where a dizzying 23% of the population was born elsewhere, I can’t see the social fabric tearing, let alone any “cultural genocide” going on.
One of the things I liked most about the years I lived in London was the diversity of faces and voices (I don’t think that’s unconnected to Britain’s continued cultural vitality). It was actually a relief to return to New Zealand and find our cultural homgenity breaking up.
Vote:http://publicaddress.net/speaker/what-diversity-dividend/#comments
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/4622459/Government-policies-blamed-for-house-prices
September 2nd, 2012 at 8:21 am
There could be more than that. Money offered for asset petition signatures?
A ‘lucrative campaign” – with a bonus? How much is being paid for signatures? This looks like more Green prostitution of CIR – with taxpayer money again? If so this is stink democracy.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:24 am
Quite so Pete; perception is everything, and the perception here is that the Greens not only have their snouts in the public trough, but also that they have gone to some lengths to hide their involvement.
Still, the left-wing troll on early shift monitoring my blog today doesn’t see a problem with it, so it must all be ok. But it would be interesting to see what the Auditor-General thinks…
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:27 am
The point is that all the arguments in the 3 yr old discussion I posted above can be refuted, especially given the adverse economic effect large numbers of migrants have had on the NZ economy. No matter how bright and gay the migrants are the interests of the smelly old “mono cultural” NZrs precede theirs (I don’t care what Spoonely and Russell “when I lived in London..” Brown says.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:29 am
So apparently, not only is homosexual marriage a “civil right”, so is a woman baring her breasts in public.
MORE
I wonder what the libs will picket for next under the banner of “civil rights”? Men breast-feeding in public?
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:36 am
At least the Greens aren’t in bed with Big Tobacco like Peter Dunne* (or Big Property Investor, Real estate agent etc).
*ref Lancet Screening for Ministerial appointments? Systems failure in Peter Dunne’s appointment as a New Zealand Revenue and Associate Health Minister
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:41 am
KS/PG,
It may well be sneaky and underhand, but if the Greens want to expend their funds collecting signatures from D Duck and M Mouse, that will leave them with far less to spend on other activities.
And the Speaker won’t be handing out credit when they come crying that they don’t have any money…
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:43 am
Impossible, it cannot be! http://www.gallup.com/poll/150743/Obama-Romney.aspx
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:43 am
Surprise, surprise. Fletch thinks that the World Nut Daily is a source of news.
And the women DO have a point. Why is it OK for men to bare breast in public but not women? I saw an old fellah at Hanmer yesterday with bigger, saggier tits than my partner.
Of course, fletch is a christian, so no surprise that he is sexually repressed; that’s the entire foundation of their religion.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:44 am
Enough of your homosexuality Fletch.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:48 am
Luke, so basically you’re in favour of women walking around topless.
Well tell me why you think constitutes a “civil right”?
ps, check out the youtube video that accompanies the article.
Vote:That makes a good a case as any for women not going topless *winches*
September 2nd, 2012 at 8:49 am
A frontal attack on Smile-and-wave: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10831126
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:52 am
Fletch, you need to defend your case for women being unable to bare themselves at, say the beach, in the way men can. hj may have a point.
Why should the law get involved in people’s clothing, other than where health and safety may be an issue?
Maybe you hanker after all those beautiful mid east women dressed in garbage bags.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:53 am
Manolo (7,224) Says:
September 2nd, 2012 at 8:49 am
A frontal attack on Smile-and-wave: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10831126
I reckon there should be an ipredict on Colin Craig “choosing to be gay” when he finds out how many votes are to be had from the pink electorate.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:55 am
Last night on Channel 9 we were thrilled by the song and dancing to the new factory. The new factory had railroads coming to it and production and other forgetables. The songs were sung to clicking bamboo. Thankyou to the Government of the Peoples Republic from your loyal subjects.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:55 am
hj – are you trying more of this nonsense? “MP Peter Dunne has consistently opposed tobacco control measures since leaving the Labour party in 1994″
Peter Dunne has been Minister of Revenue and has supported Labour and National government initiatives to increase tax on tobacco significantly over the past few terms.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:58 am
Fletch, why do you have need to hide what, according to you, your god created?
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 9:07 am
Read Genesis, MT. There is Fletch’s problem. Nakedness is evil. Genocide, adultery, polygamy, polyamoury, slavery, are all OK, just don’t get nekkid.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 9:18 am
For someone who claims to be a heterosexual conservative male, Colin Craig talks about gay issues a LOT.
Women can wear what they want, this isn’t Victorian England.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 9:27 am
Watching Q and A – Winston in good form. ACT a complete joke. Asset sales all over of ask me – too messy.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 9:31 am
Woman bearing thier breasts
Vote:As a red blooded male with a fully functioning appreciation of the female form
Guess what
I LIKE TITTYS
Due to the urges hard wired into us this is normal
and Fletch post gives more insight into the sexual repression of the fundies
Male + female =sex
and if your urges are repressed you end up obsessing about sex all the time
yes its nice to admire the female form I live on a beach and see it all the time
but I dont obsess about it I dont perv at girls bearing their bits
I think deep down in side the fundies do perv and realise its wrong and because of this they want the temptation removed
They want woman covered up because they are perverts
September 2nd, 2012 at 9:34 am
Fundies should be settling for a three hour church service about now.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 9:37 am
How intolerant you are of other people’s beliefs Hamnida. And our service (traditional Presbyterian) will last an hour on the dot. We’ll be at our favourite cafe enjoying lunch by 11.30am
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 9:41 am
Gotta keep in mind Griff, that Fletch worships the guy who invented thought crime.
But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Yep, just following the natural instincts that his god built in to him has fletch committing sin. Is it any wonder Christians are so fucked up, that they commit most of the sex crimes?
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 9:43 am
Have a soft spot for liberal Presbyterians. Apologies for any offence.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 9:43 am
You have evidence for that claim no doubt Luke?
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 9:44 am
hamneggs did you read the study?
Vote:Did you learn that the intelligent liberals dont believe in government sponsored asset redistribution
Did you learn that its the neo libs that have higher IQs
Do you now understand that liberal vs conservative is not capitalism vs Marxism
Doubt it
if you post your liberals are smarter so therefore socialist are smarter one more time you will only reinforce your stupidity
Socialist liberals are dumber !!!and there is actual proof of this
September 2nd, 2012 at 9:46 am
Keeping Stock (8,046) Says:
September 2nd, 2012 at 9:37 am
How intolerant you are of other people’s beliefs Hamnida.
Why should hamnida, or indeed anyone, be expected to be tolerant of others’ beliefs? Your beliefs are your matter, and if some of us don’t share them, then it is intolerant of you to insist we accept whatever crap your priest/pastor/iman/minister/rabbi spews forth.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 9:51 am
One belief I have is that liberals have higher IQs than conservatives.
Another belief I hold is that all New Zealand children should have equal access to housing, food, clothes and education.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:00 am
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/7595532/Breastapo-tactics-upset-bottle-feeders
This is another case of MSM unfairly reporting and building up a storm in a tea-cup.
We spent 3 months in the Auckland NICU ward last year with our son, and further time at MiddleMore, Waikato and Starship, and ALL of them went out of their way to help with bottle feeding when there wasn’t enough breast milk.
But, from what you read in the media it sounds like there is a Gestapo out there who would rather let a baby starve to death than give it formula?
Total and utter bullshit.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:01 am
Winston/ NZ First got slammed for opposing mass migration to our country. So why doesn’t Winston use the findings of the Savings Working Group or Australian Productivity Commision? Why doesn’t NZ First question the “broadly non controversial (nobbled) terms” of our own productivity commission.
Vote:Has Winston been bought?
September 2nd, 2012 at 10:02 am
Totally agree seanmaitland – the breast feeding brigade have gone too far. A sensible approach would be breast feed if you can, otherwise formula is fine. I hate how the Gestapo make some women feel guilty.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:06 am
People don’t understand exponential growth. I’d like to see the libertarians argue against the arithmetic here. Watt will rename himself “Twat” if he watches this:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/arithmetic-population-and-energy-lecture/
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:11 am
“especially given the adverse economic effect large numbers of migrants have had on the NZ economy.”
Never let facts get in the way when you are on one of your tiresomely regular anti-immigration rants, eh hj.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:13 am
Sensible women don’t walk around bare breasted because they don’t want their bosoms eventually stretching down to their knees!
But once again, we are talking about the agenda of our new overlords and moral legislators and how we should bow down to every stupid whim or reason they can find to get in our face.
The only thing that changes in society is who the current power brokers are, it was once the church, and now it is (arguably) and even worse group of moralistic morons all be it with odd morals and a detachment from reality.
You know this is true because you now can’t publicly express a moderate opinion on certain ‘issues’ without being shouted down and persecuted in a manner not dis-similar to those that once criticized organised religion in it’s hey day.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:28 am
HILARIOUS roasting of the Ridges and NZ TV over at
Vote:http://conzervative.wordpress.com
September 2nd, 2012 at 10:35 am
belief hamneggs is what separates atheists from xians
Vote:Facts and reality not belief and ineffable mumbojumbo
I have now posted a link to a published paper that proves that those who are socialist liberal have lower IQs than those of us who are capitalist liberal (neolib)
http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=study%20liberal%20intelergence&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&ved=0CFYQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asanet.org%2Fimages%2Fjournals%2Fdocs%2Fpdf%2Fspq%2FMar10SPQFeature.pdf&ei=fthBUOfeEoneigfG_IGIBA&usg=AFQjCNF48F8S3nBd0LSrHstECcWqv4L5cA
This is something I have suggested to you at least half a dozen times in the last month.
If I am PROVEN wrong or incorrect in debate I apologise to those I am debating with even those I hold in contempt.If any one doubts this read my posts it has happened more than once.(Please dont 2500pieces of inane shit for half a dozen pearls)
Why as a lefty cannot you?
Is this a reflection on the deference between those that” believe” and those like me that much prefer FACTS
September 2nd, 2012 at 10:37 am
The title of the paper is noted: “Why Liberals and Atheists Are More Intelligent”
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:41 am
With a few exceptions ( PG et al), the usual bunch of left wing, conspiracy theory, dick heads this Sunday morning.
Vote:Grow up children. The world is real and it bears no resemblance to your dreams.
September 2nd, 2012 at 10:44 am
New Zealand?
Last updated 05:00 02/09/2012
Map: Mood of the nation Report cards from around the regions
One hundred per cent pure God’s Own. The land of the long white cloud and the home of short tailed bat (probably extinct).
The place where we speak in aphorism, cliche and well-worn metaphor. Where we are operating on a ”hand out mentality”, but have ”everything going for us”. Where the people are ”resilient” but retailers are ”fragile”. Where we say the average wage is not keeping up with the cost of living while declaring Winston Peters to be ”the only one honest enough to let people know what’s going on”.
Sad when we have a proven liar so popular but I guess the lefties have to go somewhere other than Labour when they don’t like the Greens. The cons have no idea about their true beliefs so Winston is the winner.
Do others start to feel like its time we jopined the exodus when we see this crap and listen to the likes of Hone and Peters from the same tribe playing good cop and bad cop on the Telly?
Should have sold my assets years ago and left.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/7586908/How-do-you-feel-New-Zealand
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:48 am
hj,
To bolster your worthless economic anti-immigration argument you go off at a tanget and link to an old item about, er, exponential population growth.
You do realise that, in immigration terms, the word “alien” doesn’t mean beings from another planet? We are simply talking about existing people moving from one place to another.
Thus, I assure you, if you decide to move from the South Island to the North, or vice versa, the population of the World doesn’t change.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:56 am
I agree. It must have been prior to the empty chair disaster.
Vote:http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/fri-august-31-2012-
September 2nd, 2012 at 10:56 am
As part of the test a vehicle is driven into a 1.5 metre rigid barrier at 65 kmh with only 25 per cent of the driver’s side of the vehicle actually making contact with the barrier. The test simulates what happens when two vehicles clip one another on a local road where one driver might inadvertently cross the centre line, or where a vehicle hits a tree or utility pole. This is not an uncommon situation in New Zealand, where drivers do tend to hog the centre line on the highway.
The Acura TL by Honda and the Volvo S60 were the only cars that passed the test with a “good” rating, with the Infiniti G gaining an “acceptable”. Those vehicles that scored a “marginal” rating included Honda’s Acura TSX, the BMW 3-Series, Lincoln’s MKZ and the Volkswagen CC, while the Audi A4, Lexus ES 350, Lexus IS 250/350 and Mercedes-Benz C-Class were all rated “poor”.
Car crash test unearths surprise
With the aim of influencing the world car industry and national transport safety institutions, the influential US insurance trade group Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, or IIHS, has launched a new “partial-front” crash test designed to better simulate a common real-world crash situation than many government barrier tests do.
“The new IIHS test differs markedly from those currently used – and from the standards manufacturers are required to meet under federal law. Nonetheless, it is designed to simulate the sort of frontal collisions that are responsible for a large share of those deaths”, says Lund.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/7577908/Car-crash-test-unearths-surprise
Interesting. Testing based on collected crash statistics. BMW and Merc’s fail.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 11:06 am
Why do some atheists hate Christianity with a passion bordering on religious fervour, yet pretty much give every other religion a pass? I must have missed something, having lived most of my life as an atheist yet never having been so tormented by Christians that I have to lace every comment about them with such hate and derision.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 11:07 am
The ownership of water in underground aquifers is a little murkier than that of rivers and lakes. The tribunal says some of the country’s aquifers are owned by Maori. Those where taniwha lurk. Again, I am not making this up.
Grown-ups have written this report. And you work each week to pay them to do it. It’s extraordinary stuff.
Tribunal enraptured by myths and folk legends
By Rodney Hide
5:30 AM Sunday Sep 2, 2012
Who would have believed it? Singing a song can make a river yours. Plus give you a chunk of a power company and a say over how that company’s run.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10831075
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 11:12 am
Good question brian,
and this site is chokka with them.
they dress the hatred up in the language of liberty and equality,but it is very transparent bigotry.
As the Christian tradition is one of the foundatons of western civilization one can only wonder what the motivation for the constant,relentless and vitriolic attacks are.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 11:14 am
http://johnansell.wordpress.com/2012/09/01/loyalist-ropata-on-te-kooti/
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 11:15 am
don’t pandy to the trolls then. Treat them like leppers and send then away to fill some other blog with thier strident protests and rambling incoherancies.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 11:18 am
This is utter bullshit. There are no taniwha. I cast a spell that killed them all off a few years back.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 11:37 am
Reckon a few of these people infest kiwiblog
Vote:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10831054
September 2nd, 2012 at 11:38 am
well apparently you missed some Brian.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 11:40 am
@Viking2. I’ll take care of those last ones after lunch.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 11:59 am
If I understand correctly, the magical pixies that Christians believe in are real but the magical pixies that Maori believe in are not.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Nobody has to put up with the Stone Age myths propagated by these greedy and ignorant tribes.
Vote:The taniwha is rubbish, crap, manure, whatever you want to call it.
September 2nd, 2012 at 12:02 pm
There you go – just proved my point. Bang on the Christians and let EVERY other religion off the hook. Your comment should read “If I understand correctly, the magical pixies that all major religions believe in are real but the magical pixies that Maori believe in are not”
And for the record, None of the Maori I know believe in their cultural magical pixies either.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 12:04 pm
Would you buy this milk? http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8525970/more-uses-of-keys-image-on-milk-powder
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 12:08 pm
Australian nannyism that could come this way in a not so distant future:
Vote:http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/business/7594478/Australia-duty-free-changes-to-cause-chaos
September 2nd, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Clearly, Manolo, it is the milk of human kindness.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 12:30 pm
wat dabney (1,851) Says:
Never let facts get in the way when you are on one of your tiresomely regular anti-immigration rants, eh hj.
…………………………………………………………………….
High immigration to New Zealand has contributed to the country’s national savings woes by increasing Government spending, business borrowing costs and pumping up house prices, according to a taskforce charged with finding solutions to rising foreign debt.
Among a raft of other recommendations aimed at boosting the country’s flagging savings rate, both nationally and at a household level, the Savings Working Group (SWG) suggests Government give the matter of immigration some “serious consideration.”
In its 160-page report to Finance Minister Bill English tabled this week in Wellington, the SWG suggests greater control of migration could be a means of reducing house prices and ramping up national savings.
“In a country with a relatively low national savings rate, rapid population growth will put sustained upward pressure on real interest rates and, in turn, the real exchange rate, making it harder to achieve the per capita income gains that people (and the government) aspire to,” the report states.
Group member Andrew Coleman, an economics lecturer and consultant, said despite obvious sensitivities the issue warranted attention amid what is shaping up to be a national debate on how to deal with New Zealand’s mounting foreign debt.
We’re not anti-immigration but we are saying it’s something we need to look at,” Colemand said. “If we are concerned about disruptive change caused by debt levels in response to natural outcomes of migration, then we want to make sure it is occurring at a rate that isn’t getting us into trouble,” he said.
In its report , the SWG theorises that if net immigration flows were held at 1980- levels, the country’s net foreign liabilities could be 20% lower than its current rate of 85% debt to GDP
“This is a critical difference in terms of vulnerability and growth and arises because new residents require new capital stock immediately, which must be paid for…increasing the need for foreign borrowing.”
The report goes on to blame higher levels of migration in the past two decades for pushing up house prices.
http://www.interest.co.nz/kiwisaver/52140/migration-policy-linked-inflated-housing-prices-government-spending-and-low-savings
In a study for the Government in 2006, the Productivity Commission modelled a 50 per cent increase in the skilled migration program (an increase that eventuated in subsequent years.) That substantial increase in skilled migration was projected to yield an estimated gain in annual per capita income of just 0.7 per cent ($320) and only after 20 years. It was swamped by other, domestic drivers of productivity growth. Moreover, most of the aggregate gain accrued to migrants themselves — the average incomes of the population existing in ‘year zero’ actually declined slightly.
Vote:The finding that the effects are generally small is similar to that of previous studies, both here and overseas. There are two, commonsense, reasons for it:
First, the ‘flow’ of (extra) migrants is small relative to the ‘stock’ of the existing population and labour force.
Second, the forces that determine the effects on the incomes of the existing population often offset each other, and some of the effects wash out in the long run.
It is also a fallacy that higher immigration counteracts population ageing. Beyond an annual immigration level of around 100 000 people, the demographic benefits have been shown to diminish greatly, with migrants impacting much more on the size of the population than on its age structure. The main reason is that migrants age too! We would need to bring in increasingly more of them to ‘backfill’ the age structure over time. Indeed, the Commission calculated that to preserve the current age profile of the population, the immigration-to-population ratio would need to rise to three per cent (triple its peak of 2008-9). This would make Australia a population ‘super-power’ of 100+ million people by mid-century!
http://www.pc.gov.au/research/conference-proceedings/sustainable-population
September 2nd, 2012 at 12:33 pm
Some important events in the rise of western civilisation
the renascence When the shackles of Christian dogma were broken and it became ok to revisit the knowledge available pre Christianity
the reformation when the power of Rome was destroyed again freeing civilization from Christian dogma
Darwin again freeing science from dogma
notice when we kill stupid religion we move forward as a species
And Brian Smaller your anti stone age superstitions rant is the same as my anti Christian posts ie anti primal superstition
this is a liberal blog if you don’t cope well with liberal ideas expect to be corrected or fuck of to some Christian conservative wilderness
Christianity burning heretics for 2000 years
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 12:35 pm
Ambitious individuals work in the democraticly built NZ economy, and it is to their advantage and ours to do so as it pays for stuff like services – that is why it was built in the first place, it is also why we maintain it.
The unambitious are therefor not disadvantaged. They are two entirely seperate matters. The Labour lead left need to realise that.
Constructing an economy and society that caters to the unambitious AND to the disadvantaged is not progressive – but slow, mundane and dying.
For the unambitious to be better off, as they have been in the past, then the economy would have too do what it has done in the past – expand into areas where there is a demand for the skills of the unambitious so as they can get better pay to pay the cost of basic bills to be as better off as they have been before.But unlike before in the 60′s & 70′s where houses, rents, power, petrol, milk, cheese, fruit and vegtables were cheap and T’Vs, clothes and furniture where exspensive, it has reversed.The basic cost of living is expensive.Not as much is left over to save after basic bills have been paid.That’s really why home ownership is less affordable.
The labour lead left has started to subsidise the unambitious by letting them pay less tax via WFF payments etc to maintain the basic costs of living that they can no longer afford. They tax the ambitious more to do this.
Or, if it is a case of ‘less opportunities’ for the unambitious to capitalise on, then why is Labour siding with the Greens and Mana in wanting to ‘shrink’ the economy by creating more legislation, more government departments and staff, and evermore government services that are now increasingly being paid for by the ambitious?
Restricting business means that less money and skills are deployed to the private sector where the ‘ambitious few’ create ‘taxes’ for these services to be provided, and for the disadvantaged to be paid for. I thought Labour liked more taxes.
It would be folly of the highest order to vote the Labour lead left into government at the next election – it is simply unsound to do so. Things just don’t add up.Costly to all individuals and to the State.
The Labour led left can’t possably win the next election under the current economic and social conditions that NZ is currently in.
Unless of course Labour is willing to again steal from the Conservatives as Douglas and Lange did – from Thatcher and Reagan.
NZ women are more than capable to sit on boards and run private schools and hospitals.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 12:37 pm
Griff making idiotic statements for 3 years and displaying his total ignorance of history – what you’d expect from a screaming raving liberal progressive.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 12:43 pm
Oh dear Ham, so deluded.
The Craigs Investment servers have not coped with the registration requests and have crashed and died. But once they are back up and running, I am sure myself and thousands of others will head straight back to register our interest.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 1:00 pm
griff believes that the godless ideological wars between the Soviets and the Nazis,as well as the communist purges in Russia,China,Cambodia etc are the species “evolving”.
I find it very interesting when states find their back to the wall and feel the need to mobilise to fight tyranny and evil that there is so often an appeal to religion. This is evident in the Frank Capra, Why We Fight series.The greatest secular democracy in the world made an appeal to religion to motivate its fighting men. When the “species” is most threatened an appeal to a deeper side of human nature,one that does not exist in the animal world, a thoughtful and reasoned selfless sacrifice for the common good against evil.
Even Stalin had to dag God back onto the political stage when the Germans were at the gates of Moscow.
The “reformation” was not a repudiation of Christianity. It was initially an attempt to “reform” the Church. The new Protestant states were no less Christian than the old Catholic ones. Even the much vaunted Dutch Republic was deeply Christian.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 1:05 pm
Harriet (470) Says:
Ambitious individuals work in the democraticly built NZ economy, and it is to their advantage and ours to do so as it pays for stuff like services – that is why it was built in the first place, it is also why we maintain it.
The unambitious are therefor not disadvantaged. They are two entirely seperate matters. The Labour lead left need to realise that.
Constructing an economy and society that caters to the unambitious AND to the disadvantaged is not progressive – but slow, mundane and dying.
Vote:………………….
A lot of relatively unambitious people just get on with life, helping to lay concrete driveway, adding a deck. Meanwhile the ambitious person is off to a property seminar and comes away with eyes aglow and plans to invest and capture the wealth of the community by borrowing OPM and exploiting asset inflation. The deficit is made up by the last person in the chain (first home buyer or renter). And the property investor has become a big patron of the government.
September 2nd, 2012 at 1:06 pm
They do. The only reason they might not be permitted access is because their parents have equal access to booze, smokes, drugs, Sky TV, 2 litre cokes, crunchy crappo cruskety bits of shit and the TAB. That and the fact that they have useless parents who produce children with no other motivation than unprotected satisfaction of sexual urges.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 1:09 pm
Griff
Not quite correct. They didn’t start getting their own back until about 400 AD so let’s just say 1600 years. Fair to say though, they certainly made up for what they copped and then some.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 1:15 pm
hj,
To bolster your worthless economic anti-immigration argument you go off at a tanget and link to an old item about, er, exponential population growth.
You do realise that, in immigration terms, the word “alien” doesn’t mean beings from another planet? We are simply talking about existing people moving from one place to another.
Thus, I assure you, if you decide to move from the South Island to the North, or vice versa, the population of the World doesn’t change.
………………………………..
Form the “old” (stale, discredited not) video [warning: libertarians will be pooing their pants]
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/arithmetic-population-and-energy-lecture/:
If a chessboard were to have wheat placed upon each square such that one grain were placed on the first square, two on the second, four on the third, and so on (doubling the number of grains on each subsequent square), how many grains of wheat would be on the chessboard at the finish?
Vote:………….
He’s smarter than you Watt.
September 2nd, 2012 at 1:21 pm
I see that the Chinese have bought 80% of Cubbie Farm in Queensland/NSW border – small by Crafer standard only 900,000 hectares
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 1:27 pm
Brian Smaller,
I think you are getting a bit exited about nothing.
Can you point to examples where Muslim and Hindu posters here have been given a free ride, whilst the fake Christians have been challenged?
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 1:39 pm
Continuing a conversation with Griff from yesterday that I had to cut short due to it being party time …
He had commented that the US Democrat Party was to the right of the NZ National Party and since this is a frequent claim of the left in NZ I thought I would ask him to list the reasons he would give as a former ACT member, and he did so here. And this is my response:
“True” socialists would argue that we’re not, but leaving that argument of communists and libertarian socialists to one side, even they would readily accept that the USA is more right-wing than NZ.
But that’s not the point here: we’re talking about what political parties are advocating, not what the culture dictates. So …
It usually escapes people’s notice but the USA is a 50:50 health system in terms of private/public funding, whereas we’re about 20:80.
But again, the comparison should be between what the respective parties are advocating versus what institution is in place. And what the Democrats have been advocating for decades – at least as far back as Truman – is a national health care system like ours or Britain’s, while the National Party here simply accepts the status quo. At best that puts them on level pegging in the left-right ideological stakes.
In 2010 the Democrats (House, Senate and President) passed legislation that puts the US government behind all student loans, and since most universities in the US are as dependent on the resultant student fees as NZ universities (excepting those like Harvard that have huge endowments) the situation is now little different from NZ.
But again, the point is that the Democrats advocated for this for years – again with an eye on developing a government-backed system more like that of our old university system – while National (and Labour) moved in the opposite ideological direction. And of course on the education front the Democrats are constantly pushing the declining public school system, while here in NZ National is going in the other ideological direction.
Eh? Aside from FDR’s rubbish about the infamous ‘trust fund’, there is very little practical difference between Superannuation and Social Security. Both are universal, non-means-tested systems that rely on taxation, with the US having a specific, payroll-based tax rather than coming out of general taxation like ours.
Given that both Labour and National have advocated moving away from this system and have actually done so via things like Kiwisaver – and given that the Democrats fiercely resisted proposals to make Social Security more like a private-sector pension system – that makes the US Democrats more left-wing than National.
As opposed to the US system of workers compensation using private sector insurance schemes.
The Democrats are certainly not proposing a shift to an NZ-type system but are living with the status quo, so that could make them more right-wing than National in NZ. But National are moving the NZ system to a more private-sector style system, so that puts them at least on the same ideological level as the Democrats.
Aside from Health, all of these institutions in NZ have had changes either made to them or advocated for them by both National and Labour that are non-socialistic. By contrast in the USA the Democrats have been advocating changes to most of these institutions (e.g. healthcare) that are socialistic or preserving them as such (Social Security and Medicare).
Once again, the end-result is not the point in comparing the ideological desires of the respective parties, the advocacy is. For example, I know of few Democrats who were happy with the compromises of Obamacare: they wanted a US NHS and they still want that.
That makes them as ‘left-wing’ as National/Labour on this issue alone – and that’s before we look at the areas of social issues like abortion and gay rights, where the Democrats lag NZ Labour but are level-pegging with National. You could make a better argument by looking at things like gun control – but even there it’s a matter of seeing the difference between the advocacy of a party and the constraints the society places on what that advocacy achieves. Democratic politicians don’t push gun control because it’s proved to be a vote loser – but the Democrat base and most of their voters are very much advocates of it.
So basically, the argument that the US Democrats are to the right of NZ National is crap. Given the degree of ‘socialism’ that exists in the USA that should not be a surprise.
However, that won’t stop NZ lefties continuing to run this line all the time for the simple purpose of deligitimising capitalist, right-wing arguments before they’re even made; Don’t listen to them, they’re American ideas – America in the common mind, still being the font of such “extremist” horrors (who can forget the “American bagmen”).
It’s just sad to see an ACT member buy into the same meme. No wonder the party died.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 2:30 pm
hj (2,810) Says:
“….A lot of relatively unambitious people just get on with life, helping to lay concrete driveway, adding a deck. Meanwhile the ambitious person is off to a property seminar and comes away with eyes aglow and plans to invest and capture the wealth of the community by borrowing OPM and exploiting asset inflation. The deficit is made up by the last person in the chain (first home buyer or renter). And the property investor has become a big patron of the government….”
Yep -
We should all lay our own concrete driveways and build decks.
And no one should be allowed to do these jobs for an income either – or be property sales people, conveyancors, accountants or lastly work in the public service as a tax inspector.
All outlawed by komrade hj – under his Ambitious Subtraction Model.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 2:33 pm
hj,
“It was estimated that the immigrant population, of 927,000, had a positive net fiscal impact of $3,288 million in 2005/06. The New Zealand-born population of 3.1 million had a lower net fiscal impact of $2,838 million. In total, migrants contributed 40 percent more to government revenue than they received in government expenditure…We conclude that immigration has made a positive contribution to economic outcomes in New Zealand, and that fears for negative economic impacts such as net fiscal costs, house price inflation, and increasing unemployment are largely unfounded.”
http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/synthesis-research/synthesis-research_10.asp
And remember, that’s without counting the benefits to the migrants and their families themselves.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 2:43 pm
“It was estimated that the immigrant population, of 927,000, had a positive net fiscal impact of $3,288 million in 2005/06. The New Zealand-born population of 3.1 million had a lower net fiscal impact of $2,838 million. In total, migrants contributed 40 percent more to government revenue than they received in government expenditure…We conclude that immigration has made a positive contribution to economic outcomes in New Zealand, and that fears for negative economic impacts such as net fiscal costs, house price inflation, and increasing unemployment are largely unfounded.”
http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/synthesis-research/synthesis-research_10.asp
And remember, that’s without counting the benefits to the migrants and their families themselves.
That does NOT mean that EVERY immigrant is of benefit to NZ.
Immigratuion policy is not built upon the notion of CHARITY.
REFUGEE policy is a seperate matter altogether.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 2:50 pm
Why should refugee’s be made to ‘jump through hoops’ to be allowed into NZ -yet- we welcome people into the country under ‘general migration’ who don’t contribute?
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 2:58 pm
Harriet,
For that matter neither is every native-born New Zealander of wider economic benefit, and they are no more deserving of our charity than someone born on the other side of an arbitrary line on the map.
A moral immigration policy is one that respects a person’s right to live and work wherever they please.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 3:07 pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/30/oldest-message-in-a-bottle_n_1843408.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular#slide=362528
Rolf Buchholz – Most Pierced Man
The world’s most pierced man, Rolf Buchholz, of Dortmund, Germany, has 453 studs and rings all over his body, including 94 piercings in and around his lips, 25 in his eyebrows, eight in his nose and 278 in his genital area.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/30/oldest-message-in-a-bottle_n_1843408.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular#slide=270193
World’s Tallest Lego Tower
Vote:Legos aren’t just for playing around. A team of 6,000 block enthusiasts in Sao Paulo, Brazil, has put together what is reportedly the world’s tallest Lego tower. The structure, which rises 102 feet 3 inches, tops a previous record set in Santiago, Chile. [Isn't it amazing the lego bricks at the bottom can still support all of that]
September 2nd, 2012 at 3:17 pm
“A moral imigration policy is one that respects a person’s right to live and work wherever they please.”
How is immigration a “right”?
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Watt, show me how that study accounts for the cost of providing new motorways, schools, hospitals etc for the 80% of our off shore population growth?
Isn’t it interesting that the experts (chosen by the government) of the Savings Working Group ignored the findings of that study?
And that every property expert agrees that immigration (population increase) puts up house prices and rents. Interesting also that the relationship between immigration and house prices was different to overseas studies.
All in all look at Auckland’s house prices, infrastructure problems, congestion and ponder Minister Coleman’s claim that “immigration benefits everyone”
Vote:Yeah right!
September 2nd, 2012 at 3:33 pm
Kiwi exporters are fuming at Chinese infant formula makers falsely claiming their product is made in New Zealand.
Around 20 Chinese manufacturers blatantly tried to pass off their infant formula as New Zealand-made at a major Mother and Baby expo in Shanghai recently.
Companies promoted infant formula as “Made in New Zealand” and even included the Trade and Enterprise fern logo which is a registered trademark in China. One used a picture of the Prime Minister – comically mispelling his name as “Jhon Key” – next to a quote “I Love abid”.
Another company photo-shopped a Shanghai factory on to a picture of Canterbury countryside.
To compete, Kiwi-made infant formula companies hired models, including former Miss New Zealand contestant Avianca Bohm, to promote their product.
A Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade spokeswoman said the false claims were being taken “very seriously” and complaints have been filed with Chinese authorities.
Vote:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10831131
September 2nd, 2012 at 3:43 pm
Your argument centres around the idealogical aims of the democratic party not its public policy’s
Vote:There are some in national that are right wing but the public policy’s of the party are definitely more to the left of what the democrats campaign on
the same for labour there are Marxist and socialist factions in the party yet their public policy’s are more to the centre. That is the nature of politics
you are conflagration the public policys and idealogical aims FFS look at the debate on asset sales can u imagine democrats campaigning on purchasing a minority interest in power company’s or health providers. National just spent the last election campaigning on selling only up to 49% of power company’s and just scraped in could u imagine the result if they tried selling a stake in our national health service
Can you imagine national campaigning on a full contributory or even means tested pension scheme They will not key will not even allow it onto the table
acc is state run insurance with the no fault clause national has talked of giving some leeway for private schemes in the past yet has not campaign on it or reinstitute the ability to sue it would be political suicide from within has own party
The reason I was a member of act is having a more right wing faction in government such as act allowed national to institute right wing policy yet insulate its self from the political consequences Like they used Act and Hidey to insulate national from the amalgamation of Auckland
to many are un educated in the possibility’s under MMP that’s why only one party has traction to the right of centre so far
September 2nd, 2012 at 4:50 pm
When the slowly sinking Labour Party gets absorbed into the Greens obviously some of the old slogans, policies & even traditional working class songs will have to be changed. To this end this rewrite posted on Whale’s site by ‘Joe Blogs’ earlier today is inspirational:
“……. that revered Leftard anthem – The Battle Hymn of the New Socialists:
The working class can kiss my ass
I’m on the bludger’s dole at last.
You can tell old John I’m on the dole
He can stick his Blue Flag up his ‘ole!
Then raise the Benefit on high!
Beneath its shroud we’ll gladly die!
Though all our critics do shout, “Balls!”
They’ll be beneath it when it falls.
And just to show we’re still sincere
Vote:We’ll sing The Red Flag once a year.”
September 2nd, 2012 at 5:08 pm
Kiwi exporters are fuming at Chinese infant formula makers falsely claiming their product is made in New Zealand.
Whomever it was in Fonterra that had the marketing nous to either turn or preserve [probably both] Chinese public sentiment in the face of the San-Lu melamine issue, such that Chinese companies only a few short years later attempt to capitalise on the NZ brand, really does deserve knighthoods.
I’m quite glad Ferrier has decided to hang around and go to NZTE. I have no idea what his management style is, but by now he understands NZ Inc to the n’th degree and a lot of NZ exporters will be very prosperous in the coming years as a result of his leadership there, based on his track record.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 5:20 pm
NZ Native Falcon.
http://gewius.com/new-zealand-falcon/
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 5:21 pm
kowtow,
‘How is immigration a “right”?‘
The freedom to live and work where you choose is the right.
Passports and immigration restrictions are a modern evil.
Imagine if you were free to apply for jobs anywhere in the World. Imagine if people from the poorest countries could freely go and work in rich countries and send back remittances to their families, to help feed and educate their children.
hj,
You are suggesting that countries which have significant immigration do worse economically than those which don’t.
That doesn’t even pass the smell test mate. Frankly it’s ludicrous. The US, for example, has for decades been the most dynamic economy in the World and throughout that time has been famous as an immigrant destination.
What you are suggesting is that Australia is the loser when all those Kiwis go there to work, and New Zealand is the winner. Because, er, the remaining population is smaller.
Seriously?
Never heard of critical-mass and economies of scale? Do you imagine that, for example, a New Zealand population of just 1 million would mean people are wealthier? They would be peasants.
“show me how that study accounts for the cost of providing new motorways, schools, hospitals etc for the 80% of our off shore population growth?”
Like the one prepared by the Australian government, for example?
“While a larger population leads to a larger economy, the main issue is whether this expansion is accompanied by higher living standards. According to the PCPP, living standards, as measured by Gross National Product (GNP) per capita, are lower than would otherwise be the case for the first 12 years of the policy, but are then higher. After 20 years, the gain in GNP per capita reaches 0.6 per cent.”
Vote:http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/pdf/Econtech_Comparison_Report.pdf
September 2nd, 2012 at 5:27 pm
How to get a man to smile for a picture…
http://screencast.com/t/bqkIyb7RZvQU
Works EVERY time!!!
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 5:33 pm
A personality cult develops: http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/sep/1/rains-wash-away-mount-obama/
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 5:46 pm
Continuing a conversation with Hamnida on last night’s GD.
Reid – If you Neolibs are so compassionate, then why not help out the 20% of New Zealand children living below the poverty line? Why not let the cleaner on $13.50 an hour earn a living wage? Why not pay your fair share so the elderly can have decent care?
Instead of beneficiary bashing, why not offer them a job?
Why not say the school my kids go to is good enough for all children?
Why not stand up to the CEO earning $5,000,000 a year while he contracts out other jobs to cut costs?
I answered two of those last night.
Why not pay your fair share so the elderly can have decent care?
We pay what the law requires us to pay, same as you. Therefore that is the fair share. How much more do you pay over and above your taxes? Personally I give in the low four figures to charities each year. How much do you give? Why is it that most lefties seem to hallucinate that conservatives, millions of them in your hallucination, earn squillions and never give a cent? Why don’t you have the discernment to recognise that’s a stereotype as deceptive and disgusting as any racial or sexual stereotype. Yet you lefties keep yammering on about it as if it’s true. Do you really truly know how much conservatives give to charity? Of course you don’t. Yet you make this glib assumption based on your own prejudice. Personally mate I find that extremely offensive personally and factually wrong in my own experience since all the conservatives I know well enough to ask them give heaps to charity, over and above their tax. Just because a few arseholes who don’t have their priorities straight like Hodgkins and Fay and Richwhite behave the way they do, does not make that a behavioural mold for every single conservative that exists, and since you lefties are so keen on avoiding stereotypes, that’s a distinction I’m amazed hasn’t sunk into your collective skulls.
Instead of beneficiary bashing, why not offer them a job?
Because I’m not an employer. Also, I’ve never “bashed” beneficiaries. Just because I recognise the reality that many people abuse the system, does not mean I’m bashing anyone. Lefties seem to live in fantasy land whereby no-one ever does anything wrong, if they’re poor, black, brown, gay, whatever. That’s a mental fucking attitude to hold, if you want to truly understand actual human behaviour as it occurs. If you offer someone a lifestyle, they will take it. Inter-generational and long-term beneficiaries of working age have been educated over decades into accepting a meagre straightened lifestyle which working people would not accept. But they do, because it’s all they know. When they walk past pubs and restaurants full of people drinking on Friday night and they can’t afford to go in, that’s not the fault of the people in those pubs and restaurants. It’s the fault of those people who over generations have educated those wonderful, capable creatures of light that they’re not worth anything more than a few hundy per week and that’s all they get. The answer to redressing that is not to give those people slightly more money, say 300 instead of 260 per week, it’s teaching them that, just like those people in those bars and restaurants on Friday night, they too can be like them and this is how. But lefties don’t do that, do they. No. All lefties ever talk about ever, on this subject, is how victimised these people are and how the lefties are there to fight the nasty system on their behalf and aren’t lefties therefore such heroic and good people for caring about them so very much. It makes me want to puke. Why the fuck don’t lefties start teaching these people how to fish, like everybody else does. That’s the answer mate.
Why not say the school my kids go to is good enough for all children?
Please elucidate. (I assume since lefty’s IQs are so very tremendous you won’t have to google the definition of that word.) I also hope you appreciate this eirenicon I’m making toward you.
Why not stand up to the CEO earning $5,000,000 a year while he contracts out other jobs to cut costs?
While I’m not too enamoured with the recent (last 20 years) stratospheric levels of executive rem, compared to that of the people who actually do the work, and while I think the whole corporate rem structure is tremendously skewed in favour of morons who get to play manager but who don’t have any fucking skillset whatsoever apart from slipping up their bosses arses, and that permeates modern corporates, while I think all that, you have to have someone at the top, and they have to have carte blanch to do what they think is necessary. If that involves cutting a % of the workforce, so be it. So what. Why is doing that deserving of condemnation, per se? An organisation, whether govt or private, is not there for the benefit of any one of its individual members, unless we’re all in Heaven. Since we aren’t, an organisation is there to accomplish work in the environment in which it operates. Period. Ruthless? Welcome to capitalism, my friend. And remember, while capitalism may not be perfect it is, to bastardise Churchill, better than any other alternative we’ve ever tried. And that’s a fact.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:04 pm
Hamnida via Reid “Why not say the school my kids go to is good enough for all children”
You can SAY it as much as you like but that wont make it true. If you are happy with near-enough-is-good-enough for your kids, thats fine, but dont limit what I can do for my kids.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:05 pm
Now here is an uplifting report.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/01/in-a-post-convention-bump-romney-draws-huge-crowds-in-cincinnati/?hp
November 6 is a crucial day for the world.
i back the American people to make the right call.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:06 pm
wow,dare a judge make a negative comment about the media?
TV3 continues it’s campaign against Judge Neave.
I think that’s at least 3 nights in a row.
Wankers.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:19 pm
i back the American people to make the right call.
Yes but Ron Paul isn’t standing bereal so how can they?
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:25 pm
bereal, meanwhile, Obama’s speeches are drawing awkward silences –
Oh dear! Even Obi’s loyal media didn’t stick around for the end.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:25 pm
The racists want to force their “advanced” language upon us: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/114824/compulsory-maori-wanted-in-all-auckland-schools
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:26 pm
And guess what kowtow,
Judge Neave is a sick plonker, almost in the same league as ‘Judge’ Philliapa Cunningham
or ‘Judge’David Harvey.’
Others will doubtless be able to point to many other perverse examples in NZ “Justice.”
Total plonkers. So out of touch. So sick.
And what is the common denominator for these sicko jurists ?
There is one.
What do you think it may be ?
Have a guess.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:30 pm
The racists want to force their “advanced” language upon us: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/114824/compulsory-maori-wanted-in-all-auckland-schools
Manolo, saw that as the lead story on One News tonight.
They also want insulation for all Maori houses in Auckland.
The whole plan would cost the taxpayer $300 million dollars.
Vote:What a waste of money. I really don’t see the purpose of learning a language that no one else in the world speaks. Seems pointless. We may as well make learning Javascript compulsory. At least that would be useful.
September 2nd, 2012 at 6:31 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Hzgzim5m7oU&vq=medium
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:32 pm
Stone Age language for Stone Age people. Nobody speaks it, nobody cares.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:34 pm
Any of you remember what Iran did with the US hostages the very day after the origional ‘Great apologiser’
jimmy carter lost to Ronald Reagan.
Remember.
Democracy depends upon a Republican president of the USA.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:35 pm
Kea Roa Manolo. I for one will embrace the Murri languwidge and forever praise Mount Egmont while showing proper pronunciation for places like Wackertain and Whynewiormater and Wongarnewi.
I suggest we all accept the inevitable and do the same!
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:39 pm
Mother of a Navy Seal killed in action criticises Obama and Clinton for his thoughtless ad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1x-5pCSI84
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:42 pm
Ok Reid @ 6.19
Who is your next best pick after Ron Paul ?
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:42 pm
And for a bit of a laugh on Fathers Day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Hzgzim5m7oU&vq=medium
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:46 pm
I just watched a program on Sky regarding Apollo 11. Richard Nixon had two speeches prepared depending on the outcome.
Thank God we have pollies of Nixon’s and Obama’s calibre ready to say the right thing at the right time!
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:51 pm
Who is your next best pick after Ron Paul ?
Sadly Bereal, I don’t have one. I don’t know enough about the list but none of the present senior US leadership on either side, offer anything new which will be positive, to me.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 6:53 pm
Fuckin brilliant V2!!
Made me shed a tear.
Young folks understand this marketing business eh!
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 7:05 pm
A Catholic priest, a Boy Scout leader and a lawyer take some boys out on an adventure trip. On the flight over, there is engine trouble and the plane is about to go down.
“We have a problem”, says the pilot. “There are only three parachutes!”
The Boy Scout leader suggests they give them to the boys.
“Screw the boys,” shouts the lawyer.
“Is there time?” asks the priest.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 7:12 pm
Just for a laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98&feature=player_embedded#! and
http://theconspiracyzone.podcastpeople.com/posts/45487
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 7:13 pm
Reid @ 6.51
how sad.
Do i take it then that an erudite observer such as your good self is unable
to decide between Romney and Obama.
Just for fun , if you had to choose, which one gets your vote. (and why)
(I don’t know, is not an option.)
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 7:19 pm
It’s almost enough evidence reid to make a pagan like me believe in re-incarnation.
Shit! Is that Earl Warren I just saw fly past my window!!
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 7:22 pm
@ Watt
Labour Department study claims immigration has no effect on house prices
http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/synthesis-research/synthesis-research_10.asp
Once Redcliffs was an unprepossessing fishing village, distinguished by a collection of modest fishermen’s cottages. Most have now dissapeared, replaced by more luxurious residences, and property values have escalated.
“It’s a standing joke that we’re being taken over by the Americans and British, who have taken advantage of the stronger property markets in their own countires and favourable exchange rates”
“I know an English couple who have summer here and go back to England in the winter”
“What other parts of the city have such nice walks?…..
The Department of Labour Study would dispute that.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 7:25 pm
Do i take it then that an erudite observer such as your good self is unable to decide between Romney and Obama.
It’s like a choice between Stalin or Hitler bereal.
Which one would you chose?
It’s almost enough evidence reid to make a pagan like me believe in re-incarnation.
Johnboy we are spiritual beings having a temporary physical experience. Life on this planet is a school and the extent to which you love others and do right by them by helping them to advance, is the extent to which you advance yourself. Let it be.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Hitler designed fancier uniforms!
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 7:32 pm
Conclusion
When thinking about immigration it is important to recognize that its impact on the size of the economy is not a measure of the benefit to natives. There is no question that U.S. GDP is significantly larger because of immigrant workers. However, a larger economy is entirely irrelevant to the key question of whether the per-capita GDP of natives is higher because of immigration. Efforts to measure the impact of immigration on the per-capita GDP of Americans using the standard economic model show that the benefit is trivial relative to the size of the economy. Perhaps most important, these trivial gains are the result of reduced wages for American workers in competition with immigrants. These workers tend to be the least educated and poorest already. If there is no wage reduction, then there is no economic gain. Finally, the tiny economic gain is probably entirely offset by the fiscal drain immigrants create on taxpayers.
In the end, arguments for or against immigration are as much political and moral as they are economic. The latest research indicates that we can reduce immigration without harming the economy. Doing so makes sense if we are very concerned about low-wage and less-educated workers in the United States. On the other hand, if one places a high priority on helping unskilled workers in other countries, then we should continue to allow in a large number of such workers. Of course, only an infinitesimal proportion of the world’s poor could ever come to this country even under the most open immigration policy one might imagine. Those who support the current high level of immigration should at least understand that the American workers harmed by the policies they favor are already the poorest and most vulnerable.
http://www.cis.org/node/2294
Our government is looking after it’s political patrons.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 7:36 pm
“When thinking about immigration it is important to recognize that its impact on the size of the economy is not a measure of the benefit to natives.”
Never a fucking truer word hj. Look at how the bluddy Murri have screamed since we gave them the benefits of civilisation!
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 7:48 pm
A farmhand is driving ’round the farm, checking the fences.
Vote:After a few minutes he radios his boss and says, “Boss, I’ve got a problem.
I hit a pig on the road and he’s stuck in the bull-bars of my truck.
He’s still wriggling – what should I do?
“In the back of your truck there’s a shotgun. Shoot the pig in the head and when it stops wriggling you can pull it out and throw it in a bush.”
The farm worker says okay and signs off. About 10 minutes later he radios back.
“Boss I did what you said, I shot the pig and dragged it out and threw it in a bush.”
“So what’s the problem now?” his Boss snapped.
“The blue light on his motorcycle is still flashing!”
September 2nd, 2012 at 7:55 pm
Then again Stalin gave out more medals than Hitler!
http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?q=russian+generals+uniform&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1142&bih=598&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=U_6VQ56irAP1HM:&imgrefurl=http://www.picturenation.co.uk/view/info/85817&imgurl=http://www.picturenation.co.uk/image/view/preview/85817/russian-general-medals&w=267&h=400&ei=ahBDUKuIO-ywiQeZsYGoAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=918&vpy=105&dur=1029&hovh=275&hovw=183&tx=120&ty=146&sig=104124734316792355775&page=2&tbnh=141&tbnw=106&start=22&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:22,i:164
http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://www.germaniainternational.com/images/princewaldeckheader.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.germaniainternational.com/ss25.html&h=623&w=416&sz=44&tbnid=N3DVnrqI40e6IM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=60&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dss-obergruppenf%25C3%25BChrer%2Buniform%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=ss-obergruppenf%C3%BChrer+uniform&usg=__1n8TEyPAcDwUHHJJk6pHW-IHtNM=&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mg9DUOfwG820iQfXo4GgBg&ved=0CD8Q9QEwBQ&dur=92
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 7:57 pm
R.I.P Hal David….
Vote:
September 2nd, 2012 at 7:59 pm
Spoken out of ignorance. Anybody who knows Judge Neave is aware that such a statement is completely and utterly false.
On a more interesting topic:
Why do so many lefties have such hatred in them? I read Matt McCarten’s opinion piece in today’s Herald and I am just amazed at the hatred and bile that he has towards the right. This is not just disagreement with the politics, this is genuine animosity. (Look at Hamnida continually using the term ‘neolibs’ as an ad hominem; does he/she not realise that most of us here on KB are actually classic liberals, so calling us ‘neolibs’ is simply putting us within one part of the overall liberal democratic [as opposed to social democratic] fold? Hamnida, it isn’t an insult. You are merely displaying your animosity.)
Apparently Romny and Ryan oppose Obama because they are racist. And to think that I thought it was because they disagreed with his policies.
People who question Julia Gillard are, apparently, misogynist and sexist. Whereas I always thought it was simply because they opposed her policies.
Apparently the left do not think that it is possible to reasonably oppose left wing policies, so the real reason must be personal animosity. Hatred of women (and right-wing/conservative women must be self-hating) and hatred of non-whites (with non-white right-wing/conservatives being Uncle Toms).
Apparently, (and didn’t I read something like this today on KB?) right-wing people are not intelligent enough to actually have real beliefs (other than in a sky fairy) or policies that may be different to the lefties, so the only answer must be contrarian hatred of everyone who is not them.
Putting aside the astonishing leaps of logic that must be used to get such a belief, it merely staggers me every time I read sites like the Standard, or Daily Kos, or even any NZ or Australian Fairfax political columnist, how much the left absolutely hates the right, but rather than seeing their own hatred for what it is instead ascribes it to their opponents.
I know that there is no real way to change this, but I just wanted to note it here.
And, lefties, for what it is worth: we don’t hate you. We just disagree with you.
Try to understand, that is not the same thing.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:00 pm
South Auckland…..the only place where you can find a multipack of Fathers’ Day cards.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:10 pm
Then again Stalin gave out more medals than Hitler!
Exactly Johnboy. It’s not an easy choice, is it.
nasska, excellent.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:17 pm
Hell FESter. Always producing conundrums. Who shall we hate more. Lefties or lawyers?
Decisions, decisions!!
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:22 pm
Why do so many lefties have such hatred in them?
Because they truly imagine they’re the only ones on this planet who truly really actually in fact give a stuff about their fellow human beings FES.
I know.
Aren’t they mental.
Of course as a consequence it causes some of us, well me at least, to rise up in furious anger, Pulp Fiction style and maybe they somehow detect that through their devious lefty means, so their reaction against that might have something to do with it as well. But either way, it’s their fault and they’re still mental.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:22 pm
Reid
The elderly
I donate in the early four figures too. Three charities at $40 per month each plus $5 – $10 for street collections. That said, I don’t believe philanthropy is an excuse for not paying taxes. The conditions some elderly people have to live in are just unacceptable. I would happily pay a top tax rate of 39% to ensure they live their final months with dignity. Like my views on the young, I believe the elderly should have equal access to care regardless of prior income or asset wealth.
Beneficiary bashing
You say you don’t bash beneficiaries, but then take a massive swipe at them. The reality is you’re not eating in restaurants and drinking in bars if you’re on the benefit. It doesn’t provide that kind of disposable income.
In my view, education is the key. If you are on the benefit and unlikely to get a job within a month, you must undertake further education or training. No sitting at home doing nothing. In return, the State makes you have enough to live on without sliding into debt. A Western European style welfare system of dual responsibility between citizen and state.
Education and schools
I was referring to the separation between high decile/private schools and low decile ones. Despite the higher levels of per pupil funding low decile schools receive, you don’t have to be a genius to work out higher decile and private schools are better resourced. They do this by charging higher donations or fees, and working the old boy/girl networks.
My solution is equal access to high quality education for all children.
Income disparity
I find it obscene that a CEO can earn $5,000,000, while paying call centre operators in the Philippines NZ$2 an hour in the same firm. The same CEO contracted out maintenance jobs for the sake of shaving a further few dollars an hour from payroll.
I’m not saying someone earning $100,000 a year has to start paying more tax for another person on $60,000 a year. But I am saying someone on $5,000,000 has to pay more tax so a minimum wage earner doesn’t have to work 60 hours a week.
Income disparity in New Zealand has increased more than any other OECD country in the last 20 years.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:34 pm
1. Seems like a CEO doing his/her job to me.
2. Isn’t the CEO’s salary a decision made at Board level? So why is it the fault of the CEO that the Board pay him/her a lot of money?
3. If your employer offered you a salary of, say, $500,000 per year, would you voluntarily ask for it to be reduced?
How does someone paying more tax give a minimum wage earner more money? Or do you actually mean
“I am saying that someone on $5,000,000 per year has to pay more tax so that a minimum wage earner can get a (bigger) hand out from the government”?
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:44 pm
I don’t believe philanthropy is an excuse for not paying taxes.
Neither do I. Read what I said about that, again. Also, life is about choices Hamnida. It’s a real shame Commanding Heights has disappeared behind the paywall because it would, if you had an open mind, teach you something you don’t know yet. But essentially, it’s not society’s job to insulate people from their own poor choices. It’s society’s job to educate people, but if people don’t take advantage of that opportunity, which is the case with many beneficiaries, that’s not society’s fault. It’s normally the fault of their parents, actually. See philu is a beneficiary but I guarantee you his son has had a good education and I guarantee you he will earn much, much more than his dad ever has. This is but one example and there are thousands of others which prove, beyond a shadow of doubt, that’s it’s not the circumstances, but the attitude of the parents that is the critical factor in getting out of the beneficiary trap. It’s to the lefty’s enduring shame that for their own selfish electoral purposes, they perpetuate the myth, and it is a myth, that circumstances, some hidden, unmentioned evil, keeps people from climbing out. If only the lefties would drop that bullshit, society would explode with achievement. But they won’t, because they depend on victims for their votes and if people aren’t victims anymore, the left wouldn’t need to exist, and that’s why they do it Hamnida.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 8:48 pm
It’s quite obvious that CEO’s on $5,000,000 a year should pay hugely more tax so scumbag lawyers, on say $500,000 a year sponging off legal aid, could earn substantially more hence allowing their heads to expand to a size that may almost accommodate their ego’s!
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 9:22 pm
TREATYGATE Part 2 — Maori Need Honest Ngatas, Not One-Eyed Duries
http://johnansell.wordpress.com/2012/09/02/treatygate-part-2-maori-need-honest-ngatas-not-one-eyed-duries/
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 9:57 pm
I think you should read this article FES – Obama’s Skin – you’ll find some discussion of this notion:
As the writer points out it’s been this way since the days of Robespierre, so it’s not likely to change.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:00 pm
As i have suggested before F E Smith is a flea lawyer.
A flea lawyer. Get that F E Smith ? You are the ultimate FLEA lawyer.
F E Smiths argument to prove that ‘Judge’ Neave is a good man seems to be that we do not know him.
A flea lawyer and a plonker ‘Judge.’ (thats F E Smith and his mate ‘Judge’ Neave.)
One question for you F E Smith (flea lawyer)
If i spoke of out of ignorance, what do you speak out of?
A brown noser ?
A suck arse ?
A crawler ?
Do you endorse the comments of Judge Neave ?
Let me guess.
Typical of Flea lawyers of your ilk you would be prepared to suck up to anyone in a position above yourself
in the hope you may advance yourself.
A true flea.
A disgusting flea lawyer.
Otherwise F E Smith you are just an idiot.
[DPF: 20 demerits]
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:07 pm
Also F E Smith
“By their fruits, ye shall know them.”
i don’t need to know your idol Judge Neave.
Unlike you i am endowed with common sense.
i know an idiot when i see one
and i can smell a flea lawyer with delusions of grandeur such as yourself a mile away.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:13 pm
bereal
FE and I have had the odd disagreement but he is far from an idiot.
I have always found him to be a very polite person.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:23 pm
poor old big bruv, wake up to yourself mate,
get this,
F E Smith may be polite,
but he is just a polite flea lawyer.
Hey bb. Do you endorse the comments of ‘Judge’ Neave in the recent hit and run case ?
Well then, it seems to be you, big bruv and a polite flea lawyer against common sense and the rest of NZ.
Seems you are both consumate idiots along with “Judge” Neave.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:25 pm
bereal you on the piss again
Vote:why is it that everyone attacks FES he is always polite and well considered
He has changed my view on an issue more than once there are few others that I could say the same about
hes a lawyer and he is free
One of the best deals anyone on here will ever see
September 2nd, 2012 at 10:39 pm
bereal.
Oh dear, it does seem that you are becoming as unhinged as a certain other person who haunts the blogs.
Are you also from Chch?
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:48 pm
So Griff,
You agree with the comments of ‘Judge’ Neale also it seems.
Well then we have a trio of effing idiots.
No, let me rephrase that.
we can see where ‘Judge’ Neale is comming from.
The old boys (Auckland Club set) (Northern Club set)
we can see where a flea lawyer like F E Smith is comming from ( a suckarse crawler hoping to gain some personal
advantage probably not yet a member but hoping to suck his way into a nomination)
and you Griff, unable to think for yourself.
then we have big bruv, well jeez.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:59 pm
Cheers, Bruv, appreciate the kind words.
Bereal,
I don’t mind what you think of me. Your opinion has no bearing upon my self-esteem or my professional reputation.
Actually, friendship. Is that ok?
And do I endorse Raoul’s comments? Pretty much.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 10:59 pm
Now we have two deciples of F E Smith
Griff and big bruv
Well, what a crew, “Judge” Neale will be gratified to have the endorsement of such an illustrious group
of three.
Thing is morons like Griff and bb have no skin in the game (other than to suck up to F E Smith)
F E Smith is hoping this will help his elevation to the bench.
Tip F E Smith, find some way to involve incorporating the Treaty into your argument.
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 11:09 pm
F E Smith,
No.
Friendship is not enough.
In fact that would have to be the most pathetic reason you could come up with.
Typical of your ilk.
Instead of sucking up to judge Neale why not try to justify his comments with logic ?
Now that would be beyond the capability of a flea lawyer, Right ?
Vote:September 2nd, 2012 at 11:12 pm
Well, thats enough beating up defenceless idiots for tonight.
Vote:G’nite
and good luck to your families.
September 3rd, 2012 at 6:44 am
What is to be left in the hands of this soft-touch on crime: http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbnat/831977369-judge-criticised-for–lenient–sentences
Vote:September 3rd, 2012 at 6:56 am
Not bad: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/iowans-message-to-obama-we-did-build-this/
Vote:September 4th, 2012 at 8:18 am
All flags should be at half mast today to reflect on the death of our duly elected Democratic Government.
Vote: