General Debate 2 September 2012

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Johnboy

Kea Roa Manolo. I for one will embrace the Murri languwidge and forever praise Mount Egmont while showing proper pronunciation for places like Wackertain and Whynewiormater and Wongarnewi.

I suggest we all accept the inevitable and do the same! 🙂
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September 2, 2012 6:35pm
Fletch

Mother of a Navy Seal killed in action criticises Obama and Clinton for his thoughtless ad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1x-5pCSI84

Karen Vaughn, mother of fallen Navy SEAL Aaron Carson Vaughn, reacts to Barack Hussein Obama’s nauseatingly narcissistic campaign ad, “One Chance.” Karen and Billy Vaughn lost their son, Aaron, last year in Afghanistan.
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September 2, 2012 6:39pm
bereal

Ok Reid @ 6.19

Who is your next best pick after Ron Paul ?
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September 2, 2012 6:42pm
Viking2

And for a bit of a laugh on Fathers Day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Hzgzim5m7oU&vq=medium
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September 2, 2012 6:42pm
Johnboy

I just watched a program on Sky regarding Apollo 11. Richard Nixon had two speeches prepared depending on the outcome.

Thank God we have pollies of Nixon’s and Obama’s calibre ready to say the right thing at the right time! 🙂
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September 2, 2012 6:46pm
Reid

Who is your next best pick after Ron Paul ?

Sadly Bereal, I don’t have one. I don’t know enough about the list but none of the present senior US leadership on either side, offer anything new which will be positive, to me.
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September 2, 2012 6:51pm
Johnboy

Fuckin brilliant V2!! 🙂

Made me shed a tear.

Young folks understand this marketing business eh! 🙂
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September 2, 2012 6:53pm
Griff

A Catholic priest, a Boy Scout leader and a lawyer take some boys out on an adventure trip. On the flight over, there is engine trouble and the plane is about to go down.

“We have a problem”, says the pilot. “There are only three parachutes!”

The Boy Scout leader suggests they give them to the boys.

“Screw the boys,” shouts the lawyer.

“Is there time?” asks the priest.
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September 2, 2012 7:05pm
Reid

Just for a laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98&feature=player_embedded#! and

http://theconspiracyzone.podcastpeople.com/posts/45487
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September 2, 2012 7:12pm
bereal

Reid @ 6.51

how sad.
Do i take it then that an erudite observer such as your good self is unable
to decide between Romney and Obama.

Just for fun , if you had to choose, which one gets your vote. (and why)

(I don’t know, is not an option.)
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September 2, 2012 7:13pm
Johnboy

It’s almost enough evidence reid to make a pagan like me believe in re-incarnation.

Shit! Is that Earl Warren I just saw fly past my window!! 🙂
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September 2, 2012 7:19pm
hj

@ Watt

Labour Department study claims immigration has no effect on house prices
http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/synthesis-research/synthesis-research_10.asp

Once Redcliffs was an unprepossessing fishing village, distinguished by a collection of modest fishermen’s cottages. Most have now dissapeared, replaced by more luxurious residences, and property values have escalated.

“It’s a standing joke that we’re being taken over by the Americans and British, who have taken advantage of the stronger property markets in their own countires and favourable exchange rates”

“I know an English couple who have summer here and go back to England in the winter”

“What other parts of the city have such nice walks?…..

The Department of Labour Study would dispute that.
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September 2, 2012 7:22pm
Reid

Do i take it then that an erudite observer such as your good self is unable to decide between Romney and Obama.

It’s like a choice between Stalin or Hitler bereal.

Which one would you chose?

It’s almost enough evidence reid to make a pagan like me believe in re-incarnation.

Johnboy we are spiritual beings having a temporary physical experience. Life on this planet is a school and the extent to which you love others and do right by them by helping them to advance, is the extent to which you advance yourself. Let it be.
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September 2, 2012 7:25pm
Johnboy

Hitler designed fancier uniforms! 🙂
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September 2, 2012 7:26pm
hj

Conclusion

When thinking about immigration it is important to recognize that its impact on the size of the economy is not a measure of the benefit to natives. There is no question that U.S. GDP is significantly larger because of immigrant workers. However, a larger economy is entirely irrelevant to the key question of whether the per-capita GDP of natives is higher because of immigration. Efforts to measure the impact of immigration on the per-capita GDP of Americans using the standard economic model show that the benefit is trivial relative to the size of the economy. Perhaps most important, these trivial gains are the result of reduced wages for American workers in competition with immigrants. These workers tend to be the least educated and poorest already. If there is no wage reduction, then there is no economic gain. Finally, the tiny economic gain is probably entirely offset by the fiscal drain immigrants create on taxpayers.

In the end, arguments for or against immigration are as much political and moral as they are economic. The latest research indicates that we can reduce immigration without harming the economy. Doing so makes sense if we are very concerned about low-wage and less-educated workers in the United States. On the other hand, if one places a high priority on helping unskilled workers in other countries, then we should continue to allow in a large number of such workers. Of course, only an infinitesimal proportion of the world’s poor could ever come to this country even under the most open immigration policy one might imagine. Those who support the current high level of immigration should at least understand that the American workers harmed by the policies they favor are already the poorest and most vulnerable.
http://www.cis.org/node/2294

Our government is looking after it’s political patrons.
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September 2, 2012 7:32pm
Johnboy

“When thinking about immigration it is important to recognize that its impact on the size of the economy is not a measure of the benefit to natives.”

Never a fucking truer word hj. Look at how the bluddy Murri have screamed since we gave them the benefits of civilisation! 🙂
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September 2, 2012 7:36pm
Griff

A farmhand is driving ’round the farm, checking the fences.
After a few minutes he radios his boss and says, “Boss, I’ve got a problem.
I hit a pig on the road and he’s stuck in the bull-bars of my truck.
He’s still wriggling – what should I do?
“In the back of your truck there’s a shotgun. Shoot the pig in the head and when it stops wriggling you can pull it out and throw it in a bush.”
The farm worker says okay and signs off. About 10 minutes later he radios back.
“Boss I did what you said, I shot the pig and dragged it out and threw it in a bush.”
“So what’s the problem now?” his Boss snapped.
“The blue light on his motorcycle is still flashing!”
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September 2, 2012 7:48pm
Johnboy

Then again Stalin gave out more medals than Hitler! 🙂

http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?q=russian+generals+uniform&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1142&bih=598&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=U_6VQ56irAP1HM:&imgrefurl=http://www.picturenation.co.uk/view/info/85817&imgurl=http://www.picturenation.co.uk/image/view/preview/85817/russian-general-medals&w=267&h=400&ei=ahBDUKuIO-ywiQeZsYGoAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=918&vpy=105&dur=1029&hovh=275&hovw=183&tx=120&ty=146&sig=104124734316792355775&page=2&tbnh=141&tbnw=106&start=22&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:22,i:164

http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://www.germaniainternational.com/images/princewaldeckheader.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.germaniainternational.com/ss25.html&h=623&w=416&sz=44&tbnid=N3DVnrqI40e6IM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=60&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dss-obergruppenf%25C3%25BChrer%2Buniform%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=ss-obergruppenf%C3%BChrer+uniform&usg=__1n8TEyPAcDwUHHJJk6pHW-IHtNM=&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mg9DUOfwG820iQfXo4GgBg&ved=0CD8Q9QEwBQ&dur=92
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September 2, 2012 7:55pm
Fletch

R.I.P Hal David….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbaySb6HXqs
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September 2, 2012 7:57pm
F E Smith

Judge Neave is a sick plonker

Spoken out of ignorance. Anybody who knows Judge Neave is aware that such a statement is completely and utterly false.

On a more interesting topic:

Why do so many lefties have such hatred in them? I read Matt McCarten’s opinion piece in today’s Herald and I am just amazed at the hatred and bile that he has towards the right. This is not just disagreement with the politics, this is genuine animosity. (Look at Hamnida continually using the term ‘neolibs’ as an ad hominem; does he/she not realise that most of us here on KB are actually classic liberals, so calling us ‘neolibs’ is simply putting us within one part of the overall liberal democratic [as opposed to social democratic] fold? Hamnida, it isn’t an insult. You are merely displaying your animosity.)

Apparently Romny and Ryan oppose Obama because they are racist. And to think that I thought it was because they disagreed with his policies.

People who question Julia Gillard are, apparently, misogynist and sexist. Whereas I always thought it was simply because they opposed her policies.

Apparently the left do not think that it is possible to reasonably oppose left wing policies, so the real reason must be personal animosity. Hatred of women (and right-wing/conservative women must be self-hating) and hatred of non-whites (with non-white right-wing/conservatives being Uncle Toms).

Apparently, (and didn’t I read something like this today on KB?) right-wing people are not intelligent enough to actually have real beliefs (other than in a sky fairy) or policies that may be different to the lefties, so the only answer must be contrarian hatred of everyone who is not them.

Putting aside the astonishing leaps of logic that must be used to get such a belief, it merely staggers me every time I read sites like the Standard, or Daily Kos, or even any NZ or Australian Fairfax political columnist, how much the left absolutely hates the right, but rather than seeing their own hatred for what it is instead ascribes it to their opponents.

I know that there is no real way to change this, but I just wanted to note it here.

And, lefties, for what it is worth: we don’t hate you. We just disagree with you.

Try to understand, that is not the same thing.
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September 2, 2012 7:59pm
nasska

South Auckland…..the only place where you can find a multipack of Fathers’ Day cards.
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September 2, 2012 8:00pm
Reid

Then again Stalin gave out more medals than Hitler!

Exactly Johnboy. It’s not an easy choice, is it.

nasska, excellent.
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September 2, 2012 8:10pm
Johnboy

Hell FESter. Always producing conundrums. Who shall we hate more. Lefties or lawyers?

Decisions, decisions!! 🙂
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September 2, 2012 8:17pm
Reid

Why do so many lefties have such hatred in them?

Because they truly imagine they’re the only ones on this planet who truly really actually in fact give a stuff about their fellow human beings FES.

I know.

Aren’t they mental.

Of course as a consequence it causes some of us, well me at least, to rise up in furious anger, Pulp Fiction style and maybe they somehow detect that through their devious lefty means, so their reaction against that might have something to do with it as well. But either way, it’s their fault and they’re still mental.
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September 2, 2012 8:22pm
Hamnida

Reid

The elderly

I donate in the early four figures too. Three charities at $40 per month each plus $5 – $10 for street collections. That said, I don’t believe philanthropy is an excuse for not paying taxes. The conditions some elderly people have to live in are just unacceptable. I would happily pay a top tax rate of 39% to ensure they live their final months with dignity. Like my views on the young, I believe the elderly should have equal access to care regardless of prior income or asset wealth.

Beneficiary bashing

You say you don’t bash beneficiaries, but then take a massive swipe at them. The reality is you’re not eating in restaurants and drinking in bars if you’re on the benefit. It doesn’t provide that kind of disposable income.

In my view, education is the key. If you are on the benefit and unlikely to get a job within a month, you must undertake further education or training. No sitting at home doing nothing. In return, the State makes you have enough to live on without sliding into debt. A Western European style welfare system of dual responsibility between citizen and state.

Education and schools

I was referring to the separation between high decile/private schools and low decile ones. Despite the higher levels of per pupil funding low decile schools receive, you don’t have to be a genius to work out higher decile and private schools are better resourced. They do this by charging higher donations or fees, and working the old boy/girl networks.

My solution is equal access to high quality education for all children.

Income disparity

I find it obscene that a CEO can earn $5,000,000, while paying call centre operators in the Philippines NZ$2 an hour in the same firm. The same CEO contracted out maintenance jobs for the sake of shaving a further few dollars an hour from payroll.

I’m not saying someone earning $100,000 a year has to start paying more tax for another person on $60,000 a year. But I am saying someone on $5,000,000 has to pay more tax so a minimum wage earner doesn’t have to work 60 hours a week.

Income disparity in New Zealand has increased more than any other OECD country in the last 20 years.
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September 2, 2012 8:22pm
F E Smith

I find it obscene that a CEO can earn $5,000,000, while paying call centre operators in the Philippines NZ$2 an hour in the same firm. The same CEO contracted out maintenance jobs for the sake of shaving a further few dollars an hour from payroll.

1. Seems like a CEO doing his/her job to me.

2. Isn’t the CEO’s salary a decision made at Board level? So why is it the fault of the CEO that the Board pay him/her a lot of money?

3. If your employer offered you a salary of, say, $500,000 per year, would you voluntarily ask for it to be reduced?

But I am saying someone on $5,000,000 has to pay more tax so a minimum wage earner doesn’t have to work 60 hours a week.

How does someone paying more tax give a minimum wage earner more money? Or do you actually mean

“I am saying that someone on $5,000,000 per year has to pay more tax so that a minimum wage earner can get a (bigger) hand out from the government”?
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September 2, 2012 8:34pm
Reid

I don’t believe philanthropy is an excuse for not paying taxes.

Neither do I. Read what I said about that, again. Also, life is about choices Hamnida. It’s a real shame Commanding Heights has disappeared behind the paywall because it would, if you had an open mind, teach you something you don’t know yet. But essentially, it’s not society’s job to insulate people from their own poor choices. It’s society’s job to educate people, but if people don’t take advantage of that opportunity, which is the case with many beneficiaries, that’s not society’s fault. It’s normally the fault of their parents, actually. See philu is a beneficiary but I guarantee you his son has had a good education and I guarantee you he will earn much, much more than his dad ever has. This is but one example and there are thousands of others which prove, beyond a shadow of doubt, that’s it’s not the circumstances, but the attitude of the parents that is the critical factor in getting out of the beneficiary trap. It’s to the lefty’s enduring shame that for their own selfish electoral purposes, they perpetuate the myth, and it is a myth, that circumstances, some hidden, unmentioned evil, keeps people from climbing out. If only the lefties would drop that bullshit, society would explode with achievement. But they won’t, because they depend on victims for their votes and if people aren’t victims anymore, the left wouldn’t need to exist, and that’s why they do it Hamnida.
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September 2, 2012 8:44pm
Johnboy

It’s quite obvious that CEO’s on $5,000,000 a year should pay hugely more tax so scumbag lawyers, on say $500,000 a year sponging off legal aid, could earn substantially more hence allowing their heads to expand to a size that may almost accommodate their ego’s! 🙂
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September 2, 2012 8:48pm
Viking2

TREATYGATE Part 2 — Maori Need Honest Ngatas, Not One-Eyed Duries

http://johnansell.wordpress.com/2012/09/02/treatygate-part-2-maori-need-honest-ngatas-not-one-eyed-duries/
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September 2, 2012 9:22pm
tom hunter

I am just amazed at the hatred and bile that he has towards the right. This is not just disagreement with the politics, this is genuine animosity.

I think you should read this article FES – Obama’s Skin – you’ll find some discussion of this notion:

But behind that is this fundamental component of the liberal world view: the conviction that their view of the world is the sole virtuous view. This has been the case at least since Robespierre appropriated Rousseau’s hot-house notion of virtue: the virtuous man is not he who acts in a virtuous way, but he who is intoxicated by the spectacle of his own virtuous feelings.

Take a look at the behavior of the Occupy crowd, of Code Pink, of the Greens, of the left flank of the Democratic Party. Dissent from their point of view is not regarded as a different opinion: it is rejected as heresy, as the benighted machinations of people who are not just misguided but downright evil.

As the writer points out it’s been this way since the days of Robespierre, so it’s not likely to change.
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September 2, 2012 9:57pm
bereal

As i have suggested before F E Smith is a flea lawyer.

A flea lawyer. Get that F E Smith ? You are the ultimate FLEA lawyer.

F E Smiths argument to prove that ‘Judge’ Neave is a good man seems to be that we do not know him.

A flea lawyer and a plonker ‘Judge.’ (thats F E Smith and his mate ‘Judge’ Neave.)

One question for you F E Smith (flea lawyer)
If i spoke of out of ignorance, what do you speak out of?
A brown noser ?
A suck arse ?
A crawler ?

Do you endorse the comments of Judge Neave ?

Let me guess.

Typical of Flea lawyers of your ilk you would be prepared to suck up to anyone in a position above yourself
in the hope you may advance yourself.

A true flea.

A disgusting flea lawyer.

Otherwise F E Smith you are just an idiot.

[DPF: 20 demerits]
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September 2, 2012 10:00pm
bereal

Also F E Smith
“By their fruits, ye shall know them.”

i don’t need to know your idol Judge Neave.

Unlike you i am endowed with common sense.

i know an idiot when i see one

and i can smell a flea lawyer with delusions of grandeur such as yourself a mile away.
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September 2, 2012 10:07pm
big bruv

bereal

FE and I have had the odd disagreement but he is far from an idiot.

I have always found him to be a very polite person.
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September 2, 2012 10:13pm
bereal

poor old big bruv, wake up to yourself mate,
get this,
F E Smith may be polite,
but he is just a polite flea lawyer.

Hey bb. Do you endorse the comments of ‘Judge’ Neave in the recent hit and run case ?

Well then, it seems to be you, big bruv and a polite flea lawyer against common sense and the rest of NZ.

Seems you are both consumate idiots along with “Judge” Neave.
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September 2, 2012 10:23pm
Griff

bereal you on the piss again
why is it that everyone attacks FES he is always polite and well considered
He has changed my view on an issue more than once there are few others that I could say the same about
hes a lawyer and he is free
One of the best deals anyone on here will ever see
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September 2, 2012 10:25pm
big bruv

bereal.

Oh dear, it does seem that you are becoming as unhinged as a certain other person who haunts the blogs.

Are you also from Chch?
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September 2, 2012 10:39pm
bereal

So Griff,
You agree with the comments of ‘Judge’ Neale also it seems.
Well then we have a trio of effing idiots.

No, let me rephrase that.

we can see where ‘Judge’ Neale is comming from.
The old boys (Auckland Club set) (Northern Club set)

we can see where a flea lawyer like F E Smith is comming from ( a suckarse crawler hoping to gain some personal
advantage probably not yet a member but hoping to suck his way into a nomination)

and you Griff, unable to think for yourself.

then we have big bruv, well jeez.
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September 2, 2012 10:48pm
F E Smith

Cheers, Bruv, appreciate the kind words.

Bereal,

I don’t mind what you think of me. Your opinion has no bearing upon my self-esteem or my professional reputation.

One question for you F E Smith (flea lawyer)
If i spoke of out of ignorance, what do you speak out of?
A brown noser ?
A suck arse ?
A crawler ?

Actually, friendship. Is that ok?

And do I endorse Raoul’s comments? Pretty much.
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September 2, 2012 10:59pm
bereal

Now we have two deciples of F E Smith
Griff and big bruv
Well, what a crew, “Judge” Neale will be gratified to have the endorsement of such an illustrious group
of three.

Thing is morons like Griff and bb have no skin in the game (other than to suck up to F E Smith)

F E Smith is hoping this will help his elevation to the bench.

Tip F E Smith, find some way to involve incorporating the Treaty into your argument.
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September 2, 2012 10:59pm
bereal

F E Smith,
No.
Friendship is not enough.
In fact that would have to be the most pathetic reason you could come up with.
Typical of your ilk.
Instead of sucking up to judge Neale why not try to justify his comments with logic ?

Now that would be beyond the capability of a flea lawyer, Right ?
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September 2, 2012 11:09pm
bereal

Well, thats enough beating up defenceless idiots for tonight.
G’nite
and good luck to your families.
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September 2, 2012 11:12pm
Manolo

What is to be left in the hands of this soft-touch on crime: http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbnat/831977369-judge-criticised-for–lenient–sentences
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September 3, 2012 6:44am
Manolo

Not bad: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/iowans-message-to-obama-we-did-build-this/
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September 3, 2012 6:56am
Viking2

All flags should be at half mast today to reflect on the death of our duly elected Democratic Government.
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September 4, 2012 8:18am

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