It’s all the fault of Corrections, not the Beast!

September 8th, 2012 at 3:47 pm by David Farrar

blogs at Pundit:

 The media have told us that Murray Wilson refused to attend a rehabilitation programme while in prison. In fact, the Corrections Department refused to let him attend.

Sounds shocking, but why?

For many years Wilson was held in Rolleston Prison, a low-security prison with a sex offenders unit – just what Wilson needed. But Corrections refused to put him into this programme because he wouldn’t acknowledge his guilt. That’s very strange considering the entry criteria for this programme state that “denial or other cognitive distortions related to offending behaviour” are an indication of suitability for the programme.

There are different degrees of denial. As I understand it, the programme is not designed for someone who has been convicted of five different rapes, and maintains he was not guilty of all of them.

If Wilson had any remorse at all, he would have been allowed on the programme. But he thinks he is the victim. not the women he raped.

Unfortunately, Corrections was not able to establish a rapport with Wilson. He refused to even meet with the psychologist who wrote the final risk assessment on him, so she prepared her report from information on his file. Why would Wilson not want to meet with her? Probably because she had written a number of previous reports which were highly critical of him. Clearly there was not a lot of trust between Wilson and this particular psychologist.

Oh poor little Stewart. The nasty mean psychologist said some stuff he didn’t like. And in the views of Brooking, this is the fault of Corrections and he should be able to demand a new psychologist until he gets one who says what he wants to hear.

The most pathetic part of this farce is that Corrections claims it cannot compel offenders to attend rehabilitation programmes. That makes no sense at all. The police have the power to arrest criminals; the court has the power to send them to prison; but Corrections claims that once in prison they can’t compel anyone do a programme. 

Umm, what is Brooking suggesting. That they enter his cell, subdue him, handcuff him, march him to the programme room, and then restrain him to a chair, so he has to take part? Has he not considered an unwilling Wilson would disrupt it for everyone else?

Unfortunately, Corrections never gave Wilson a chance. They seemed to think he had to have the necessary insight and motivation right from the start. 

No, they said he has to have *some* insight or remorse. He appears to have none. To the contrary he thinks he is the victim, and his sense of victimhood is not doubt fuelled by what Brooking writes.

Victoria University Professor, Tony Ward, a clinical psychologist with expertise in sexual offenders has described Wanganui’s reaction as “moral panic” and said that given Mr Wilson’s age, he was unlikely to reoffend.

”The reoffending rate for very high risk people over 60 is about 6%.”

Is that an offer of a spare room I hear? I mean why worry about a 6% chance of rape or sexual molestation? Never mind that is also a generalised statistic.

This is all so familiar. Graeme Burton committed two murders under the influence of alcohol and drugs. Corrections had him in their custody for 14 years and never put him into a programme to address the core issue – his drug addiction. 

So Corrections is also to blame for Graeme Burton. Not once is his entrie blog post does Brooking even touch on teh concept of any individual responsibility resting with the killers or rapists.

As it happens I think more alcohol and drug rehabilitation is a good thing. And as it happens the Government has increased funding for this very significantly.

But let us not fool ourselves. Some criminals can be rehabilitated. Some will go straight if they kick drugs or alcohol. But many will not. They are quite simply nasty self-centered people who have no empathy for others, and choose to inflict pain and misery on others, so long as they get their jollies.

Blaming Corrections for the evil of Wilson and Burton is distasteful, and as I said I find it appalling that not once did Brooking concede any individual culpability at all.

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80 Responses to “It’s all the fault of Corrections, not the Beast!”

  1. hj (5,674 comments) says:

    Is it true Wilson had brain damage to an area relevant to his offending?

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  2. Joel Rowan (99 comments) says:

    He refused to acknowledge guilt, which is an obvious pre-requisite to being rehabilitated in any case. It’s not just some Hollywood cliché that the first step is acceptance. How can you possibly start to move on from something you refuse to accept ever happened.

    So if you ask me, effectively he did refuse to participate in the programme. He didn’t do anything to try and be rehabilitated. It’s exactly like education, the student has to want to learn. You can’t just “put him in a programme” and expect that to solve the problem.

    If there was such a programme that could reset a person’s whole mind by force, the same critics would probably know it as brain washing (or torture, or a lobotomy). I’m sure it’s possible, but it’s not exactly humane.

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  3. Brian Smaller (3,915 comments) says:

    Still, I think Corrections made a huge mistake sending Wilson to somewhere as redneck as Wanganui with the resultant bruhaha. He would have been much more welcomed in Thorndon.

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  4. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    Brooking is another effing liberal do-gooder trying to defend the indefensible.

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  5. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Here we go again, with yet another post about Wilson, followed by a bunch of emotive hysterical drivel. Even the most (usually) rational of commentors can not keep their minds together long enough to make a helpful remark.

    He is not even close to being the most dangerous released prisoner. Far bigger threats are released into society on a regular basis and receive not one comment or blog.

    This is nothing more than a media beat up that cashes in on peoples reactions to sex crimes, especially involving kids. Its largely driven by his lack of (displayed) remorse. He has served his time, end of story. If you look at his offending you will see he is not likely to grab your kids off the street. He is a dirty old pervert, but that is not his way of obtaining victims.

    Get a grip people. This old sicko is not your biggest worry by a long shot.

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  6. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    I’m waiting for Paul Joseph Dally to be paroled to Taita.

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  7. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Or Wanganui as the case may be! :)

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  8. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Kea: You are clearly a man with extensive knowledge of this area… so please do give us a couple of examples of more dangerous offenders than Wilson…

    If you knew anything at all, you would know there is a small category of sex offender who can NEVER be rehabilitated and who remain dangerous so long as they draw breath..

    Before responding and making a bigger (anonymous) fool of yourself, I suggest you google Stanley McKissock Reid…almost twenty years Wilson’s senior when released at the instigation of a few do gooding lefties in Christchurch in 1983…perhaps before you were born?. Six weeks later he tried to rape a nun at the “community house” where he was staying. Fortunately his intended victim was a sprightly sixty year old and she was able to subdue him…but go and read all about him for yourself.

    And don’t forget those names of the many released prisoners you know of who are more of a threat than Wilson.

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  9. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Hang the Beast.

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  10. hj (5,674 comments) says:

    “Corrections had him in their custody for 14 years and never put him into a programme to address the core issue – his drug addiction. ”
    …………………
    If that is true drug addiction makes a person a killer without empathy?

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  11. Brian Smaller (3,915 comments) says:

    Hang the Beast.

    Actually, that is the first thing you have ever said that has made any sense.

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  12. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Hamnida: Are you being sarcastic/provocative or…what?

    The “Beast Problem” will resolve itself one or another before too long…sadly there will almost certainly be another victim as part of that resolution…

    Kea: done that research yet? You can’t be off on the town yet…the yoof don’t go out till midnight these days do they? Perhaps you are stirring the lentils…

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  13. Elaycee (4,064 comments) says:

    Johnboy:

    I’m waiting for Paul Joseph Dally to be paroled to Taita.

    I doubt you’d be the only one waiting, Johnboy…. Carla Cardno’s Stepdad (Mark Middleton) was handed a 9 month suspended jail sentence [in 1999?] for threatening to kill Dally if he was ever released from jail. :D

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  14. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    In my view the Beast offers nothing to New Zealand society. Furthermore, he refuses to say he will not reoffend and shows no remorse. So he is a lost cause and the State should decide what is cheaper – hang the Beast or throw away the key.

    If the Beast had worked hard to change his ways while in jail, I’d reluctantly give him a second chance.

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  15. tristanb (1,133 comments) says:

    Corrections had him in their custody for 14 years and never put him into a programme to address the core issue – his drug addiction.

    So what!

    If there was any justice in the country Burton would have been kept in prison.

    We send people to prison to punish them. Psychology 101. Parenting basics. Dog training lesson 1. Common sense. Basic logic.
    To reduce the change of an behaviour detrimental to others, we punish these behaviours.
    There’s nothing wrong with that.

    The only reason we have to rehabilitate the fuckers is that our prison sentences are so short, we have to try and somehow minimise the collateral damage to innocent people when they’re released. We don’t owe it to criminals to rehabilitate them, we do it out of self-preservation.

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  16. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Chaps like the beast and PJ Dally are really lost causes to the highspeed lead industry.

    Their fuckin Lawyers are too really! :)

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  17. F E Smith (3,273 comments) says:

    He refused to even meet with the psychologist who wrote the final risk assessment on him, so she prepared her report from information on his file.

    That is not really a good thing.  Prison files and reality do not always match up.  That is not to defend Wilson, but just to observe that it isn’t really good practice, even when the subject has been unco-operative.

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  18. Cricklewood (21 comments) says:

    Re burton, i worked with a guy who did a large stretch with him and considered him an ally. Corrections staff were so shit scared of him (cant blame them really with no proper gear) they kept him supplied/turned a blind eye because as long az he was stoned he was passive. So in some ways i guess they became a big part of the final outcome. bloody difficult sitiuation for the guards tho. Prick of a job with piss all in self defence gear looking after complete nutcases who dont give a fuck.

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  19. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Hamnida: Well being the generous caring chap I am I will take you at your word…

    Seriously, as a society we need to face up to the reality that a very small number of these guys (Wilson and Lloyd McIntosh are the ones that spring immediately to mind) can never be safely released and must be kept in secure custody regardless of their sentence status.

    Dally actually is another…my sources tell me he is utterly unremorseful about what he did, although he has wised up and no longer boasts about it, as he did when first locked up….Sadly he will be out eventually, and long before he is as old as Wilson I suspect…

    As an aside, I saw an interview with a retired executioner in the South of the US once…he said that he saw his job as “fixing up the good Lord’s mistakes”…

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  20. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    FESter defending his income again!!! Sigh! :)

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  21. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Yes David. Buried her alive at Pencarrow!

    No doubt pieces of shit like FESter will have a good reason for his activities.

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  22. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Cash is a fuckin good reason for FESter’s :)

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  23. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Johnboy: You don’t want to know what happened to that poor girl before she got to that point of being buried alive…

    I will say again, I have no idea who FES is, but I very much doubt he is Bott or Ellis or one of the others who specializes in defending the “human rights” of these guys…STILL waiting for the draft statement of claim for Hobson Michael…

    Just out of curiousity Johnboy…do you agree or disagree that even evil bastards like Dally are entitled to a competent defence? I believe he and others like him are…but just not from me. They teach you in law school….nah…you never know what little weevil is monitoring this….nuff said….

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  24. RF (1,128 comments) says:

    Hamnida

    We have at last something that we agree on except I would not give him a second chance no matter what.. In my books he would be swinging from the hanging tree with me hanging on his feet.

    In another life I had dealings with individuals such as this. Believe me he is pure evil in spite of his age now.

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  25. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    RF: Are you old enough to remember Stan Reid? When he tried to rape the nun – at the age of 83 – and she subdued him, he said “I have always been a bad bastard sister”…thus showing a great deal more insight than Consedine and the other clowns who agitated for his release.

    Of course had it not been for a Labour Party moritorium (can’t be bothered checking the spelling) on cp he would have been hanged when he raped Lila Hammond and cut her throat with a straight razor in 1944…and some New Zealand executioner would have “fixed up [one of] Gods mistakes”….

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  26. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    I believe P.J. Dally, and all the others like him, deserve a quick clean death, at minimum expense to us David, unlike what they gave to their victims. I also don’t believe that they should be a source of huge income to folks like FESter at enormous expense to us. People like FESter bring the whole legal profession into disrepute, not that it had much repute to start with.
    I’m fairly sure you have a good idea who FESter is just like I do but I won’t state his name here for obvious reasons.

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  27. RF (1,128 comments) says:

    David

    Yes.

    I joined ” the job” very early 70s and have either come across or heard about some of our more unpleasant individuals.

    Some people are beyond saving in spite of best intentions.

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  28. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    1st capital crime minimal sentence let those that try to rehabilitate attempt
    2nd capital crime suspended death sentence try again
    3rd capital crime on convection straight out the back and bullet for the 2nd crime no appeal, no rights,no hesitation

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  29. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    What calibre do you suggest Griff?

    I prefer 9mm Parabellum due to its lower cost.

    Would you go for a shot through the ear (most effective) or one in the back of the head (most unexpected).

    Hint. One in the back of the head was preferred by the best mass murderers ie: the Soviets! :)

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  30. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    That Barry Hart character…another apologist for scum…much like Williams…hasnt karma turned up for him? Last time I heard he had cancer ?

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  31. RF (1,128 comments) says:

    Make sure they dig their own grave first. Saves getting a sweat up after. I like the Chinese who send the next of kin an invoice for the bullet. user pays.

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  32. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Now, now chaps. if we are to save money and time on the expeditious disposal of criminal types we have to keep it all seemly you understand.

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  33. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    One of the key discussion points for me in the debate is whether the death penalty is cheaper for the State than life in jail.

    I am no expert on the topic, but I did hear something about it costing more to execute a prisoner the U.S than keeping them behind bars for life. From memory, this was because of the massive legal costs associated with the lengthy death penalty appeals process.

    So first, I think you undertake research to see if the death penalty is cheaper or not.

    Then I think you have look at a very high burden of proof threshold. If there is any doubt at all, no execution.

    ABs v Argentina looks like a tight game. Good to see a new team in New Zealand, the Tri Nations was getting too sameish.

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  34. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Thanks for the invite David, but I am not going to be drawn into this silly nonsense further. Just for the record, the onus of proof is on the people making the claim, not those that do not accept it.

    You just keep telling folk what they want to hear and I will carry on thinking for myself.

    I am not made of stone and can understand why people are so hysterical.

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  35. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Well Hamnida perhaps our problem in NZ is too much navel gazing. If a fellow is guilty without a doubt give him a quick bullet and waste whatever cash we save from his quick resolution to investigating the more obscure cases.

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  36. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Kea: (Dickheads first, it’s only fair) it was YOU sonny who made the foolish statement that there were people much worse than Wilson being released all the time (can’t be bothered scrolling way back to get the exact quote but that’s the gist of it).

    That statement immediately begs the question “Give us some examples…or any example”…You are unable to do so because you clearly know nothing about the subject i.e who has recently been released, what their risk profile is, and what their crimes were.

    Hamnida: You are correct; the “it costs so much more to execute people than give them LWOP” argument is because of the ludicrous American system which can give rise to 10 or 20 years on death row and appeals to almost literally every court in the land before the felon is actually executed That said, the “American system” is a collosal f…up from start (arrest) to finish (execution), with literally dozens of exonerations now occurring because of any number of mistakes along the long tortuous path. So it’s a damn good thing that they DO take so long to carry out their sentences.

    Compare that with the UK and us. There were about 1000 executions in the UK in the 20th century. To the best of my knowledge, only one is known to have been “the wrong man”, Timothy Evans who was executed for the murder of his daughter, when the crime was actually committed by his landlord, Reginald Christie. There is ongoing argument about Derek Bentley, a borderline subnormal man who said “let him have it Chris” to his accomplice, who then shot a cop. Bentley’s supporters say he meant let the cop have the gun, not a bullet.

    One celebrated case British case was that of Hanratty, whose supporters petitoned for a posthumous pardon for decades claiming he was innocent. Not long ago his body was exhumed and DNA evidence conclusively proved he was in fact guilty. Google him.

    In New Zealand, there was never a case of “the wrong man” being executed – at least not in the 20th century. We pretty much followed the British system: Conviction, a mandatory appeal, if that failed an appeal to the Cabinet (nominally the Governor General or the King) for clemency, followed by an execution within three weeks if clemency was denied.

    Quick, cheap, and just – except of course for poor Timothy Evans.

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  37. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    “In New Zealand, there was never a case of “the wrong man” being executed”

    Only cause we never executed Arthur and (maybe) David though David!! :)

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  38. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    If New Zealand considered the death penalty for our worst offenders, I would only support it if:

    1. The cost was cheaper for the State than life in prison.
    2. The burden of proof was very high. If there is any doubt, the execution does not proceed.

    As I have previously noted, I’m not an expert on this matter, but I suspect there may have been more “wrong man” (sic) death penalty sentences that the ones you have noted. Also, some people may have given up hope while on death row. Isn’t there also a form of mental illness where people admit to things they didn’t do?

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  39. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Barrett .50 cal soft nose saves the any chance of survival you need a good hose to clean up though pink mist

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  40. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Hell Griff. You would have to replace the bricks on the opposite wall after every headshot! :)

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  41. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Interested in a bet David Garrett? You take Romney and me Obama?

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  42. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    The bricks johnny on the opposite wall fuck have you seen the effects on you tube.? you put the mofos behind a double brick wall and shoot from 500meters and still you get pink mists.. .50 cal is not a hunting round unless you like venison soup

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  43. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Hamnida: If you are going to add a “sic.” you should make sure your own usage is right….

    But that aside, isn’t it a little redundant to admit you are no expert on the subject and then go on to demonstrate it?

    Johnboy: Yes, you are quite right. Although it is not a certainty (someone in the cabinet may have had qualms when it came time to consider clemency) Arthur Thomas may very well have been executed if we had had CP in 1970.

    But don’t worry, this discussion is all theoretical….CP is not going to return, at least not in my lifetime….and the Garretts live long generally…

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  44. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Griff practicing what he preaches:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqOeDW5wu_E

    Never realised you were such a fat old bastard Griff! :)

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  45. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Patrick Floyd Garrett died at fifty eight David! :)

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  46. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    (sic) referred to using “man”, instead of people or person. Both men and woman have been executed.

    I’ll have to assume you think an Obama victory is on the cards.

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  47. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Shot in the guts though!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Garrett

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  48. joe bloggs (126 comments) says:

    @hj 3:57pm

    Is it true Wilson had brain damage to an area relevant to his offending?

    I was told that Wilson suffered some significant damage to his prefrontal cortex in his youth – damage to that part of the brain blunts emotion in most regards, other than the occasional outburst of anger. It also impairs decision-making and people with this sort of damage often make impulsive decisions without considering the consequences. That sort of damage is also associated with difficulties learning moral behaviour and understanding/empathising with the feelings of others.

    If true then Wilson is damaged goods – which might explain why he evidently has no interest in rehabilitating himself, why he is in denial, etc.

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  49. RF (1,128 comments) says:

    Pat is still a famous person in New Mexico. I spoke to a deputy sheriff in Lincoln County last year who sent me one of their uniform patches. It has a picture of Pat Garrett on it.

    They still say it was an ambush as Pat never fired his shotgun.

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  50. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Much the same is said of David RF! :)

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  51. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Dearie me..”both men and womAn”…quit now man…or woman.. “sic.” is written with a full stop to signal a contraction from the original Latin….

    Joe Bloggs: I’m afraid I am not much interested in why Wilson is what he is, or how William Bell became a murderous psychopath…My concern is about their risk to the rest of us…Workman and his mates can debate endlessly how they became what they are, and use whatever theories they like to try to prevent the next generation of psychopaths evolving…they are two entirely separate issues….

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  52. RF (1,128 comments) says:

    At least David lived to continue his fight for justice

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  53. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Your ancestor would be proud of you David! :)

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  54. gravedodger (1,426 comments) says:

    @ David Garret 8 44, I am very troubled about the last judicial killing in New Zealand.

    Walter Bolton Protesting his innocence on the gallows.

    Accused of killing his spouse with Arsenic.

    Their well water source was very contaminated with natural occurring Arsenic.

    I understand the execution was not as clinical as most thinking people would see as desirable

    Bolton is another reason I am totally opposed to Judicial killing of perps in custody even the shits anyone will nominate at the drop of a hat.

    Your three strikes law is a much better solution.

    It is very persuasive with the modified three strike outlined above but count me out.

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  55. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Considering that Walter, Beatrice and Florence all lived on the farm and presumably drank the same water Gravedodger it really gets down to who administered the extra lethal dose to Beatrice. Walter or Florence?

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  56. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Gravedodger:Yes, I once thought Bolton may have been innocent…Have you read “Guilty on the Gallows” by Sherwood Young? He leaves little doubt that he was guilty…

    “Protesting innocence until the end” is not that uncommon…so did Hanratty, who I referred to earlier ..

    Johnboy: Quite so…nice to discuss with a man who actually knows what he is talking about

    I have met a man who was present at Bolton’s execution…aside from the fact that he was blubbing like a child and had to be held up on the trap, and the witness concerned found it a very disturbing experience, there was nothing remarkable about the execution…there are all sorts of lurid stories about botched executions in England too, but there is no evidence that any were…at least not after about 1915 when variable long drops were introduced…

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  57. RF (1,128 comments) says:

    David

    Sherwood aka Si Young was on the money concerning Bolton.

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  58. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Gravedodger: My reference to a man who knows what he is talking about was not a dig at you…rather our young friend Hamnida – at least I hope he/she has that excuse – who criticises others’ usage and knowledge of CP when s/he clearly knows little about either..

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  59. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    RF: Other than Bolton, there are no others in NZ where it is seriously argued that the wrong man was hanged are there? I know of none…that of course is a quite separate issue from whether X or Y should actually have been executed…Fiori maybe was the closest? Clearly a moron totally under the influence of a wife who was a complete scrubber – as we older chaps used to say…

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  60. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Imagine if David Bain had been hanged?

    And Joe Karam beside him! :)

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  61. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Johnboy: You chaps who use pseuds can say what you like on Bain, but I could not possibly comment…other than to say it will be very interesting to hear the finding on whether he gets compo…I believe the finding is imminent…

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  62. RF (1,128 comments) says:

    David

    I used to work in Dunedin and had an interest in Minnie Dean. She was hung up stairs from what was my office. Up in the loft there was a wooden gallows ..in pieces plus rope but I am not sure if they dated back to her days. In the down stairs locker room there were several square areas in the concrete floor that were supposed to be the graves of hanged prisoners buried feet first. Made a good story as not verified.

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  63. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Sorry David I just saw the humour in Joe being executed so we don’t have to listen to his one man crusade anymore. :)

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  64. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Yeah, Minnie Dean was an interesting one.. Again though, there was no doubt babies in her charge died, and probably with intent on her part…but if it was 50 years later I doubt she would have hanged… Even more fascinating to speculate whether they would have hanged Parker and Hulme if they were in their 20′s rather than teens…What do you think?

    Anyway, leave you all to it chaps…gardening can be very tiring for the middle aged…

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  65. RF (1,128 comments) says:

    There are a few in Otago that still believe she was fitted up by the Police. The Parker Hume case was a show trial with the Crown Solicitor seeking a very public result.

    Had they been males they might have faced the drop. Doubt if a female would be put through that.

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  66. Nostalgia-NZ (4,684 comments) says:

    What a surprise Garrett brought up Stan Reid again. How many times is that, 20 or 30?

    Of course no discussion can be entered to when the Justice Department admit defeat and report that they are unable, helpless in fact, to enter a recalcitrant into rehab programmes. Instead swooning at the thought that Wilson is some kind of sicko who is unaware of the obvious finds favour. What is the price of wind dolls these days?

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  67. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Ah, it’s amazing what you find when sleepless and looking here…

    So let’s be clear here: You DON’T think Wilson is “some kind of sicko?” What amazing insights have led you to a conclusion that is contrary to every psychologist and psychiatrist who has ever had any dealings with him, contrary to that of the Corrections Department, and the Parole Board ?

    I mention Reid for two reasons: 1) to remind readers that it is not true that “they grow out of it eventually” (and Reid is not unique); and 2) to illustrate how naive , nay, stupid lefties can be on the subject of parolees’ risk.

    thanks very much for coming along and illustrating my point.

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  68. Nostalgia-NZ (4,684 comments) says:

    Of course he is a sicko. As was Stan Reid. In Reid’s case I don’t even know if there were sexual offender’s programmes running during his time in prison. But just two men don’t illustrate a point when put in context that there were no doubt literally 1000s possibly 10,000s of others who offended in the same or similar ways the greater majority of who were never heard of again. So by that we can see 1000s that did ‘grow out of it.’

    I think it is an excellent point from the quoted article that Corrections didn’t let Wilson attend, or force him, or coerce him to attend, treatment for the mere fact that he wouldn’t admit, what we all know is true, including himself, that he is a sexual deviant. The logic of that is bewildering, let him think he’s not guilty, whatever – but put them into treatment programmes as a matter of course – not simply because they won’t admit the obvious truth.

    Wilson is an offensive and bewildered character but seeing a police escort, special flights, special accommodation is to me an admission that Corrections didn’t manage his case properly. If he was still a risk after treatment corrections couldn’t be faulted for that, but that they refused to give him treatment because of not uttering some obvious ritual is bananas.

    On another take at this, we have one person (at least one) refusing life parole because he’s not guilty. A lot of evidence points to his innocence and his case is advocated by an ex police officer. He also refused to plead guilty to a lesser charge in order to be let go – the reason because he’s not guilty. So one man trapped in the system because he’s in some kind of denial about his offending, and a second trapped because he won’t admit what isn’t true. Logic?

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  69. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    “Kea: (Dickheads first, it’s only fair) it was YOU sonny who made the foolish statement that there were people much worse than Wilson being released all the time (can’t be bothered scrolling way back to get the exact quote but that’s the gist of it).”

    No David, but nice try. Failure to accept your claim is not “making a claim”

    The claim is that Wilson is a uniquely dangerous threat to society. What you have not provided is evidence, because you have none. We all know how awful his offending is and you can appeal to the popular by playing on emotional reactions. But none of that supports the notion he is any more of a threat than many others released from custody.

    I may add that those of you crying out for the death penalty have a naive confidence in our criminal justice system that I do not share. You may also want to do some research into how “humane” executions really are. If you still support the death penalty, after that, you are as much a sicko as Wilson.

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  70. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Kea: Oh dear…again…During the considerable research I did before writing my book “A life for a life: a case for capital punishment” 1999, Hazard Press, Christchurch (available in any library) I learned a great deal about the humaneness (is there such a word? there should be) of various execution methods. But dont take my word for it. The best source is “A life for a life: the report of the Royal Commission into capital punishment” by Sir Ernest Gowers, published in 1953.

    In a nutshell, The British Royal Commission found that the variable long drop method of hanging as practiced by the British – and in New Zealand – was by far the most humane method of execution. Since you seem not to be very bright, but perhaps you are simply young, I will point out what you should know if you know anything at all about this subject: the method of hanging practised by the Americans and others is very very different from that practised by the Brits.

    My view now is that capital punishment is literally more trouble than it is worth, and that LWOP is literally a much more severe punishment in any case.

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  71. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Hanging is not really that humane and results vary. The silly thing is that we know of much more effective and humane ways. I watched a very good documentary about this but I am unable to find the link.

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  72. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    I give up. You are not actually interested in learning anything. Have you ever actually read a book rather than cruised around the internet?

    Easier still, rent “Pierrepoint” starring Timothy Spall. It is completely historically accurate. Including Pierrepoint completing an execution in seven seconds from the time he entered he condemned cell to the time the victim was dead. He never took more than 30 seconds.

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  73. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    I found it David: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R18yDjc2lKE

    You may find it interesting.

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  74. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Oh I’m sorry David, maybe you won’t learn anything from a documentary, because its not a “book”.

    We all know that things in books MUST be true.

    I bet your Christian.

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  75. David Garrett (5,120 comments) says:

    Ah, no …what’s your real name by the way?

    Books, like any source material, are only as credible as their authors. One can also tell a great deal from who publishes them – Chatto and Windus as opposed to ….well, “Howling at the Moon.” Much harder to tell whether an internet site is credible. I would think Sir Ernest Gowers’ report of the Royal Commission on Capital Punishment is a great deal more reliable and credible that an internet site run by some guy from Sacramento…or that’s where the server is.

    And for the record (do try and read a comment before responding to it): 1) I no longer think capital punishment is a good idea; and 2) I watch documentaries all the time; 3) I am an agnostic who hopes the Christians are right, and it doesn’t all end – as I suspect it does – at the crematorium.

    Good luck with your papers next semester.

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  76. cha (3,528 comments) says:

    there are no others in NZ where it is seriously argued that the wrong man was hanged are there?

    Mokomoko?.

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  77. Nostalgia-NZ (4,684 comments) says:

    I read that one but couldn’t remember the name. I spoke to a Viet Nam veteran who lives in Opotiki recently whose son won a gallantry award in Afghanistan for the incident in which Luke O Donnell was killed. Despite the generations passing it is still felt there that the Crown ‘hung’ the wrong people in what could now be fairly described as a land grab and slaughter disproportionate to Volkner’s death. Probably used the wrong ‘hung’ there. Interestingly, there were many warnings for Volkner not to return to Opotiki by reasons that he was seen as being a spy – something which in itself indicated the turmoil afoot. How easy it would be to find a willing witness to have seen a rope in Mokomoko’s hands when land was available for distribution and many old scores still unsettled.

    Such things seem to lay bare reasons for the running skirmishes that remain today.

    His name must still be available and in a recent interview in the past few years, a Auckland Star reporter recalled the death of Stan Bolton, describing how the ‘knot’ hadn’t worked and staff were required to swing on the old farmer’s legs. I have no confidence that Bolton was guilty. It seems Florence Ivy Dougherty might have best know the truth, if that is the correct name I recall hearing stories from some of the Bolton family. But that aside the well water had arsenic in it and if memory is correct so did the blood of Stan himself.

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  78. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    David why you are so interested in my real name?. Who I am does not matter, unless you intend to misuse the information when your losing the argument (like now) Not that I am really sure we disagree on any important point. I was simply making the observation that there are greater threats to society than that old pervert, yet we do not see all this fuss about them.

    btw…..The documentary I linked to was produced by the BBC. Not sure why you have a problem with servers in Sacramento, please explain?

    The internet is a gold mine of information. You can usually identify quality material, from the rubbish, with a bit of common sense and research. In fact I could argue that the web makes it easier to check the quality. I often find out about interesting books on the web and then use it to check the opposing views and critique.

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  79. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    David,
    Your comments re Corrections are very naive and very middle class. If you really think this department is without fault , it shows that you have nothing whatsoever to do with either their facilities or their staff. Somehow I did not expect you to be this naive.

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  80. Rodders (1,790 comments) says:

    joana – utterly condescending, as always.

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