The pre-ballot

September 20th, 2012 at 12:37 pm by David Farrar

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 Today at midday there’ll be a ballot for members’ bills, with two places available on the Order Paper. A preliminary ballot will be held to determine which of the following bills will be entered in the main ballot:

20. Education (Breakfast and Lunch Programmes in Schools) Amendment Bill –
22. Education (Food in Schools) Amendment Bill –

In my view, the Clerk’s decision to conduct a preliminary ballot to determine which of these two bills, which have similar aims, goes into the ballot is the wrong one. While the goals of the two bills are similar, the means of achieving them a very different. The test needs to be whether the bills are substantially the same in their ‘content’, not whether they are the same in the outcome they seek to achieve.

For example, if two bills were put up around the transportation of goods from Wellington to Auckland, and one sought to do so via rail and one via road, if we used ‘outcome’ as the criteria for determining whether they were the same, only one bill would go in the ballot, yet clearly the bills are very different in their content. We’ll be relitigating this for sure, but for today at least, only one of these bills will make it into the ballot.

You can see the full list of bills in today’s ballot after the break. I’ll post the results just after midday.

Update: Hone Harawira’s Bill made it into the ballot and the following were drawn:

Conservation Natural Heritage Protection Bill – Jacqui Dean
Electricity (Renewable Preference) Amendment Bill – Charles Chauvel

Heh, no wonder Labour are annoyed. Imagine if Hone got his bill drawn on what they are trying to make their signature issue.

I wanted to look at both bills, to see if I agree with Hipkins that the bill are different enough to let them both go through. My gut reaction is you trust the who have no political motives, but they are not infallible.

But Shearer’s bill is not on the parliamentary website. I don’t know why. Maybe it was only finished this morning. Hone’s bill is here. Hopefully Shearer’s bill will go online at some stage, so we can judge for ourselves.

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9 Responses to “The pre-ballot”

  1. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    I’m stunned!

    Credit where credit’s due, Hone actually managed to stop insulting Pakeha for long enough to do something that could even be useful – for ALL people, not just Maori.

    I never thought I’d see the day … :)

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  2. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Is legislation by lottery a basis of good government?

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  3. KiwiGreg (3,129 comments) says:

    Really, you think taxing some New Zealanders to pay for other New Zealanders’ kids meals is useful?

    @ Kevin the GOVERNMENT doesn’t use the lottery, it just passes its laws, the lottery is a game for all the clowns who arent in government.

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  4. davidp (3,327 comments) says:

    I’m torn on school meals for children. I’d expect government to reduce all benefits and WFF payments by (say) $5 per child a day. That’d be pretty much fiscally neutral, and it would avoid the problem of parents spending their benefits or incomes on things other than feeding their children.

    The only issue I have is accounting for parents who would prefer to feed their children breakfast at home and send them to school with a packed lunch, rather than relying on the lowest common denominator school meals.

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  5. Chuck Bird (4,415 comments) says:

    “I wanted to look at both bills, to see if I agree with Hipkins that the bill are different enough to let them both go through.”

    DPF, I take you mean that is two or more bills are very similar only one can go through at least in theory?

    [DPF: Yes]

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  6. OneTrack (1,977 comments) says:

    “all decile 1 and 2 schools and other designated schools in New Zealand” – I wonder what he means by other designated schools?

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  7. gravedodger (1,426 comments) says:

    @ One Track, the Charter Schools obviously.

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  8. Dave Stringer (182 comments) says:

    way back in the day, we got a two course meal at school, they were called School Dinners, and there’s even a ‘memorial’ restuarant in London to bring back the memories (though they’ve taken some license with what used to go on as I remember it).

    The concept was simple, it was a “break-even every week” concept, with parents expected to pay for the meal if they weren’t on welfare, and the government paying if they were. Attendance was mandatory if the fee was paid, and you needed a doctor or minister’s letter to get excused for diet or religious reasons.

    While there was certainly nothing gourmet about the food, it was filling and ‘balanced’ and ensured we all ate. It also provided jobs for lots of people who prepared, served, monitored consumption of and cleaned up after the meals. A better use of the (minimum wage) cost than paying it out as welfare, and good for people with school-aged kids, as the work started after and ended before the kids entered and exited school premesis.

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  9. KiwiGreg (3,129 comments) says:

    ” It also provided jobs for lots of people who prepared, served, monitored consumption of and cleaned up after the meals.”

    Of course anyone who might have made a job from the discretionary spending which was no longer able to be made becasue of the “tax” on the parents was shit out of luck.

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