Auckland Ethnicity

October 2nd, 2012 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

The Herald reported:

White Europeans could lose majority status in in the next few years as the combined population of Asians, Pacific Islanders and Maori increases, Statistics New Zealand figures indicate.

While the city’s population was 76 per cent white European in 1976, projections show it will be 51 per cent in 2016, with further reductions in later years.

The forecast comes as the Herald begins a five-part series on ethnic diversity in Auckland, where about 40 per cent of the inhabitants were born overseas.

Nearly 70 per cent of Aucklanders in a Herald street poll said they were comfortable with the changing face of the city.

Massey University sociology professor Paul Spoonley, who made the Auckland population projection based on Statistics NZ figures, said it was a matter of “when” rather than “if” minority communities combined would outnumber white Europeans in Auckland.

I’m not sure why the Herald got someone to do their own projections, when Stats NZ do official projections themselves. The Stats NZ data, based on medium pop growth, for Auckland is:

2011 2016 2021
Europeans 59% 56% 53%
Maori 11% 12% 12%
Asian 22% 25% 27%
PI 16% 16% 17%
Total 100% 100% 100%

So that is a fair bit different from the Herald data – 56% in 2016, not 51%.

Personally I don’t care about people’s ethnicity or race very much.  I care about the ability of people to integrate into New Zealand – but that is not reserved to people of any particular ethnicity or race. By integration, I don’t mean assimilation. I’m also more focused on the ability of the second generation to integrate. Of course those who speak English as a second language will have some challenges integrating, but what is more important is do their kids integrate.

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105 Responses to “Auckland Ethnicity”

  1. kowtow (7,943 comments) says:

    The changing face of New Zealand. And when was an electorate ever asked about such a fundamental change?

    [DPF: Are you saying that we should restrict immigration to white people? Or are you saying there is too much immigration?]

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  2. ChardonnayGuy (1,184 comments) says:

    Surely, though, given the importance of China (and eventually India) to the global economy and our own trade access to their markets, we should be emphasising Chinese language, culture, history, society and business studies within our secondary and tertiary education systems to enable us to gain and maintain market share? It’s time we said goodbye to the “Little Zealand” parochialism of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries and recognised that we live in an increasingly multipolar world and that our nation is dependent on free trade- and that requires prudent investment in the skills needed to analyse and recognise opportunities in what has already become Australia’s largest trading partner, and may shortly become our own. I think multiculturalism is a strategically important political development, and that we should be doing as much to encourage it as possible, regardless of political affiliation.

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  3. dime (9,663 comments) says:

    “we should be emphasising Chinese language, culture, history, society and business studies within our secondary and tertiary education systems to enable us to gain and maintain market share?”

    not sure is necessary. wasnt that the big myth in the early 90s? we will all need to learn how to speak japanese etc.

    The chinese speak english. Dime does business with quite a few chinese companies. most are good buggas. they all speak english. wegenerally bond over a bottle of whiskey :D

    i know a lot of people that get upset with the amount of asains in auckland. i dont get it. but hey, i dont want any more muslims so each to their own.

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  4. IHStewart (388 comments) says:

    ” I’m also more focused on the ability of the second generation to integrate.”

    Exactly.

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  5. dime (9,663 comments) says:

    ” I’m also more focused on the ability of the second generation to integrate.”

    thats aussies problem imho. most of those shit heads you saw on the news going nuts over that movie would be second generation

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  6. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    Watch it ChardonnayGuy…

    Your very sensible suggestion that we should be thinking more about foreign languages and mores will not go down well with the lefties and the PC brigades – who think the future of the world all depends upon us all learning (compulsorily) maori. I cant work out why they thuink this though. A bigger hole in the ground would be hard to find.

    Anyway – us here in the waikato are safe from the browns hordes for a while yet. Yes we have the bloody north africans who are just a pain in the butt (they dont know the meaning of ‘integrate’ and they want to establish the same society here that theyve just run away from. They must be weak in the head to want to do that) but otherwise we are operating a ‘mainly white’ policy which keeps the standard up.

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  7. nasska (10,908 comments) says:

    What ‘dime’ said at 10.33….in spades. The Muslims have no ambition to integrate, never mind assimilate.

    In another twenty years max, we’ll have ‘no go’ areas with Sharia law. It’s happening in Britain, in France, in Holland…..how can the bleeding hearts kid themselves that it won’t happen here?

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  8. david c (254 comments) says:

    Well this thread hasn’t failed to disappoint. I anticipated racism and that’s exactly what we’ve got. I look forward to more! Yay race baiting!

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  9. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    @ Kowtow,

    Across the West no electorates have ever been asked or given any real choice. The Japanese don’t appear to be in any hurry to demographically transform their country and culture. On the left you have ideological motivations for immigration to reach some multicultural ideal. On the right, there is support from large business donors to keep wages down and fuel demand for property.

    Interestingly, although people who object to large scale immigration are sometimes portrayed as extreme or “far right”, those views are in fact the majority.

    “In both affluent countries in the West and in the developing world, people are concerned about immigration. Large majorities in nearly every country surveyed express the view that there should be greater restriction of immigration and tighter control of their country’s borders.”

    http://www.pewglobal.org/2007/10/04/world-publics-welcome-global-trade-but-not-immigration/

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  10. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    [DPF: Are you saying that we should restrict immigration to white people? Or are you saying there is too much immigration?]

    Neither.

    He asked when the NZ people were given the choice as to whether they wanted large scale immigration from other cultures.

    He’s talking about government depts and bureaucrats making decisions that effect many and not consulting on those decisions.

    Do you think this is the way things should happen?

    Frankly, I am disgusted at the way that traditional European culture has been made into a doormat for every other culture.

    Here’s is a question for you and your liberal friends Mr. Farrar.

    Do you think the White European culture has any value, and if yes, should that value be diluted by government enforced mingling with other cultures?

    Is our traditional culture enhanced or diminished by the addition of (for example) tribal Nigerian culture?

    That’s two questions (allowing for overlap). Good to see an answer to both of them if you have the time.

    [DPF: I don't see European culture as white culture. But putting aside colour, I certainly believe the western european culture of democratic rule, separation of church and state, free speech, equal rights for women, tolerance of religon (incl those who criticise religion), to be supremely important. I only want immigrants who accept these things. But that is not restricted to particular races or ethnicities]

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  11. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    ***Of course those who speak English as a second language will have some challenges integrating, but what is more important is do their kids integrate.***

    Skill selection is a significant factor in this respect – and looking at the track record of group assimilation (eg as insurers apply premiums to high risk groups). Policy analyst Jason Richwine had an interesting article a few years ago on how to ameriorate the potential loss of social capital from diversity:

    “It was not the kind of message a Harvard seminar expects to hear. Ethnic diversity causes a lot of problems, our guest speaker told us. It reduces interpersonal trust, civic engagement, and charitable giving. It causes us to disengage from society, like turtles shrinking into their shells, reducing our overall quality of life. The more diversity we experience in our lives, the less happy we are.

    Putnam told us he had been fairly certain the correlation would go away once other factors were taken into account. But it didn’t. He entered a long list of control variables into regression analyses that predict elements of social capital such as neighborly trust and civic participation. Many factors—especially younger age, less education, and higher poverty and crime rates—seem to damage community relations. But none of these factors could explain the robust, negative relationship between ethnic diversity and social capital. Sounding almost defeated, Putnam told us that ethnic diversity is not merely correlated with certain community problems—it causes them….

    Some clear policy implications follow. What we want are immigrants who are most likely to be cooperative, trustworthy, and concerned about the welfare of the community. No one has any simple, reliable way of ascertaining whether an individual possesses these qualities. But we do have a simple, reliable way of measuring another quality that is correlated with them—cognitive ability, as measured by an IQ test or an educational credential. The smarter our immigrants are, the more likely they are to trust and cooperate, and the less likely they are to subtract from our existing stock of social capital. Selecting immigrants for intelligence (or a proxy indicator like education) could lessen the negative impact of ethnic diversity on American society.”

    http://www.american.com/archive/2009/august/dealing-with-diversity-the-smart-way

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  12. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    One of the major reasons mass immigration became necessary in NZ is the proliferation of Cactus Kate style wimmin in society.

    A traditional birth rate amongst European mothers would have meant replacement rates were sufficient, however the birth rate in this demographic has fallen substantially, largely because of fashionable progressive policies that falsely diminish the very important social role of mothers and motherhood.

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  13. kowtow (7,943 comments) says:

    Thanks Red.

    I pose a genuine question, as part of the debate, concerning democratic principles and am inferred to be a racist.
    .
    Mass immigration from non traditional sources has been hugely problematic in terms of integration,crime ,social policy ,economics etc

    It needs to be debated openly without fear of such accusations, which simply lead to shut down, and in future no doubt to criminal liability.(It’s already happening in other Commonwealth and EU nations ).

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  14. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    @ Redbaiter,

    1. Japan has lower fertility rates than NZ and most European countries.

    2. The country is still 98% Japanese and quite happy that way.

    3. They are investing in robotics to assist with elderly care.

    4. The idea that immigration is a panacea to an ageing workforce is flawed in any case (See the UK select committee of economic affairs report ).

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  15. Pete George (23,326 comments) says:

    Question of the day (so far):

    Do you think the White European culture has any value, and if yes, should that value be diluted by government enforced mingling with other cultures?

    Without needing any answer that’s a real insight into Whitesupremacistbaiter.

    No one is forcing you to mingle. As no one forced any of the myriad of white European and New Zealand cultures on me.

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  16. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    DPF…
    Of course those who speak English as a second language will have some challenges integrating, but what is more important is do their kids integrate

    Hehe, English is my 2nd language and I had no problem with integrating when I first arrived here.

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  17. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    Interesting that both PG and David Farrar choose to live in cities (Dunedin and Wellington respectively) far less affected by mass immigration than Auckland.

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  18. Pete George (23,326 comments) says:

    Falafulu Fisi – do you see yourself as an enforced mingle?

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  19. kowtow (7,943 comments) says:

    red ,bob r
    Western governments need to hold their nerve on the demographic scare tactic. Yes there will be problems (but it will sort itself out as they shuffle off).
    It is being used by govt’s ,like global warming, to push changes on society that no electorate has been consulted on.

    The west does not need cheap labour from third world countries . Across the west there is massive unemployment,why bring in more mouths to feed and families to house?

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  20. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    @ Pete George,

    Your comment “whitesupremacistredbaiter” is also an insight into how simplistic and knee jerk your thinking is. Is the Dalai Lama or other Tibetans “Tibetan Supremacists” for being against Tibet becoming majority Han Chinese?

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  21. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    Just for the record, it should be noted that the official line to defend mass immigration and the resulting cultural changes is that without immigration there will be nobody to recharge the welfare coffers for a rapidly aging population that has not replaced itself by natural means.

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  22. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “Your comment “whitesupremacistredbaiter” is also an insight into how simplistic and knee jerk your thinking is.”

    He can never do anything above superficial. Extremely low IQ I believe.

    Its the proliferation of such low brow contributors that will make this a name calling festival for bigots rather than a reason based analysis of the issue.

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  23. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    ***Just for the record, it should be noted that the official line to defend mass immigration and the resulting cultural changes is that without immigration there will be nobody to recharge the welfare coffers for a rapidly aging population that has not replaced itself by natural means.***

    Yes, and as noted in the UK House of Lords report, that rationale is flawed.

    And to the extent immigration is appropriate, it should be in accordance with skill selection and cultural compatibility. Some people overlook there can be significant negative externalities from short term cheap labour in terms of longer term welfare dependence and crime.

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  24. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    PG, no it was a choice. When I first got here, I attended church on a regular basis in the first few weeks. Then 2 white school boys befriended me at school. They started inviting me to weekend parties of their friends and parties they knew, plus going to pubs with them and I loved it. WHY? I got laid more often hangin out with them then me going to church every sunday and hangin out with my Tongan cousins in South Auckland when I first got here. My Tongan cousins used to see me with a different chic and they wanted to come & hang out with me, but I told them that my white mates thought that they looked like trouble makers in parties, so I avoided them.

    I was exposed to many things and learn new things that I would have not otherwise been exposed to had I hang around my cousins and church youth groups.

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  25. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “Yes, and as noted in the UK House of Lords report, that rationale is flawed.”

    Of course it is, but more importantly, it is not the true reason mass immigration is happening.

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  26. nasska (10,908 comments) says:

    Falafulu Fisi

    When you made NZ your home presumably you had ambition & a desire to be educated. Therefore your success was nearly inevitable.

    Contrast this with the way current immigration policy seems to operate. We scrape useless, undereducated, overbreeding, misogynist, potentially violent religious headcases off the streets of some ME shithole, stuff them in a plane then give them a state house & benefits in South Auckland or Lower Hutt.

    If their breadwinner is educated we don’t bother to check if his qualifications are acceptable in NZ. They end up driving a taxi or on a benefit. No thought is put into whether the immigrant wishes to integrate or act as a spearhead for jihad.

    In other words nothing we do regarding immigration makes sense or benefits NZ as a society other than giving socialists a warm fuzzy feeling in their tummies.

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  27. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “I was exposed to many things and learn new things that I would have not otherwise been exposed to had I hang around my cousins and church youth groups.”

    LOL- well said FF.

    Liberals have destroyed so much that was of value in our culture.

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  28. backster (2,123 comments) says:

    From those figures it seems to me that Auckland Super Council requires a Pacific Islands cultural advisory Board of about 20 and an Asian cultural advisory board of about 40, with corresponding seats on Council.

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  29. bc (1,353 comments) says:

    The weather has packed it in today – must be those liberals, eh redbaiter?

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  30. Griff (6,995 comments) says:

    Red some of us dont want to conform to your conservonutter rules when we live our life Not everyone wants to breed just to pay old people the pension and us that have not bred do not get a fair deal. We pay for peoples kids enough as it is
    I do agree that we should target immigration from western democratic nations and not from the ME and somalia
    The reason I have stayed in New Zealand is the lifestyle not the employment opportunities and cultural mix
    And if any one would like to call me a white supremacist go ahead and migrate to some godforsaken shit hole in Africa The western way is superior to any other method of civilization yet evolved. if you don’t like it fuck off to your idea of nirvana and stop polluting mine

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  31. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    ***Not everyone wants to breed just to pay old people the pension and us that have not bred do not get a fair deal. …The reason I have stayed in New Zealand is the lifestyle not the employment opportunities and cultural mix***

    @ Griff,

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you want a place to maintain a type of lifestyle/level of civilization then you need the people who built it to reproduce. Affordable family formation is important. Particularly, it means smart women need to be able to take time out to have children.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10450313

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  32. nasska (10,908 comments) says:

    Bob R

    …” Particularly, it means smart women need to be able to take time out to have children. “….

    Agreed that repopulating with the cream of our own people is the best of all possible outcomes. The question still remains of why we are importing drop dead, uneducated no hopers to fill the gap.

    We’d be better off with empty streets.

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  33. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “We pay for peoples kids enough as it is”

    An outcome of the mindfucked liberal social policies you always endorse.

    You say you can’t have your cake and eat it to, but like every progressive, you act completely contrary to this old but true analogy.

    “The question still remains of why we are importing drop dead, uneducated no hopers to fill the gap.”

    Because you and your ilk have made NZ so unattractive that nobody else will come here. Why do you think so many leave FFS?

    You are a good example of the kind of blind unthinking fool that has caused our society to disintergrate almost to the point of no return.

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  34. nasska (10,908 comments) says:

    …”Why do you think so many leave FFS?”….

    So importing more garbage now will somehow fix a problem started by the same immigration policies that accelerated the flight of the educated entrepreneur.

    As stated before empty streets would be cheaper.

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  35. Griff (6,995 comments) says:

    “You say you can’t have your cake and eat it to, but like every progressive, you act completely contrary to this old but true analogy.”
    No my cake is stolen by breeders to pay for their lifestyle choice. Education welfare and health services that my partner and I pay for but don’t use
    And they wonder why we have white flight in this country. Lets penalise the single and responsible to pay for the greedy breeders and then complain when they fuck off overseas.

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  36. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “my cake is stolen by breeders”

    No your cake is stolen by the promotion of the idea that everything takes second place to sexual gratification.

    An idea that you and other liberals/ progressives have pandered to ceaselessly.

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  37. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    @ Griff,

    I see where you are coming from now. I was referring to services for children such as schools, libraries, pools, playgrounds, plunket and parental leave schemes.

    In terms of people having children when they are already state dependent for income/accomodation my view is that welfare should be conditional on using temporary contraceptive implants.

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  38. nasska (10,908 comments) says:

    NZ doesn’t have a problem insofar as it’s underpopulated. What it does have is a dearth of potential success stories & the growing slums of South Auckland are not going to produce them.

    Anyone who advocates a return to apple pie & that ol’time religion as answers is bat shit mad. We can’t change the past, the present is on us but we may as well do a stocktake & not worsen the problems we already face. This includes immigration policies.

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  39. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “As stated before empty streets would be cheaper.”

    Yes they would be, but people leave more because Keynesians have destroyed the economy and racists have encouraged apartheid.

    Nobody deserves more blame for this circumstance than the National Party, that is full of both Keynesians and racists, and you support them unfailingly every step of the way.

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  40. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “Anyone who advocates a return to apple pie & that ol’time religion as answers is bat shit mad.”

    Bat shit mad??

    Yeah right.

    If there was ever anyone who showed any signs of insanity it is you fucking progressives. Still pushing the outdated and destructive progressive dogma that has wrecked this country and religiously blind to your own fault.

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  41. Tautaioleua (292 comments) says:

    When I was in high school (2007) we were still being taught German, Spanish & French. The school down the road was offering Latin. Mandarin wasn’t offered, Japanese was instead.

    It’s a reminder that the schooling system is simply too slow to adapt to emerging global trends. Japanese is not an international language on par with French & Mandarin. People like Kevin Rudd surprise the business and political worlds with their fluency in Mandarin because it’s simply not expected of anyone with no blood ties to the red republic.

    New Zealand needs to get in on this emerging edge. All major secondary schools in Auckland and Wellington at least should be offering Mandarin.

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  42. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “DPF: I don’t see European culture as white culture. But putting aside colour,”

    This is kind of strange to me, on a rational basis.

    Blacks can identify as blacks and are generally applauded for this. Why is it apparently verboten for whites to identify as whites?

    Don’t whites have the same right to pride in their skin colour as blacks?

    Or is it wrong for blacks to accentuate their skin colour?

    One of those two propositions has to be wrong.

    You can’t have it both ways.

    Well, not if you want to be logically consistent that is.

    [DPF: None of us control their skin colour, so not sure how we can take pride in it. I think you can take pride in your culture, your heritage etc. Skin colour sometimes is associated with these things, but I personally don't think skin colour matters at all]

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  43. david c (254 comments) says:

    Redbaiter: aren’t you an immigrant?

    I forget which way round, but aren’t you either a Kiwi living in Australia, or vice versa?

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  44. dime (9,663 comments) says:

    “I was exposed to many things and learn new things that I would have not otherwise been exposed to had I hang around my cousins and church youth groups.”

    lol yeah like how to be a dirt bag.

    and of course you integrated without any problems. youre a smart dude.

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  45. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “Redbaiter: aren’t you an immigrant?”

    Whatever I am, how many White Europeans have emigrated from NZ to live in mud hut villages in Nigeria?

    And what does the answer to that question tell you about culture?

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  46. MT_Tinman (3,044 comments) says:

    Bob R (773) Says:

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

    Of course you bloody can!

    It simply needs good planning by all ensuring the fruits of one’s labours are reserved for that person (and his relatives) instead of imported (in this instance) no-bloody-hopers.

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  47. dime (9,663 comments) says:

    “Whatever I am, how many White Europeans have emigrated from NZ to live in mud hut villages in Nigeria?” lol brutal

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  48. david c (254 comments) says:

    RB: so just to clarify, immigration is ok, if it’s white people going to white countries? Is that your position?

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  49. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    @ MT_Tinman

    See my follow up comment. I was referring to supporting middle class women having children. In terms of the underclass I believe it is morally wrong for people to receive welfare without using contraception. However, one reason people end up in the underclass is inability to plan ahead. Therefore contraception via birth control shots should be given every 3 months as a condition of ongoing entitlements.

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  50. Pete George (23,326 comments) says:

    ‘White European culture’ is a nonsense categorisation, there’s huge cultural diversity and mix of races throughout Europe, as there has been for millenia.

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  51. dime (9,663 comments) says:

    PG – can you list the white cultures that still live in grass huts? or mud huts?

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  52. Paulus (2,562 comments) says:

    Great to have immigration diversity in the hope that assimiliation takes place – have some concern over recent refugees, particularly young Africans (Somalis), who have not tried to assimilate.
    They are trouble with a Capital T as they cannot find work in Auckland and do not perhaps really try. They would appear to have serious chips on their shoulders.
    Presently Muslims are assimilating well, but within their own race (Muslim is a way of life not necessarily a religion).
    It is hoped that those here are not disturbed by others taking the Muslim way to another and more violent way of life – because it happens overseas.
    Long may immigration diversity continue.
    p.s. am seriously prejudice towards Asian foods.

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  53. Pete George (23,326 comments) says:

    dime – what is ‘white culture’?

    If you want to look at the whole evolution of humans then there are Africans and the rest have come from Africa.

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  54. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    It’s impossible to cover the Sun with one’s hand: there is a gulf of centuries of development between Judeo-Christian and Greco-Roman cultures and the primitive tribes of Africa and other parts of the world.

    History cannot be re-written, despite any Marxist attempts.

    I’m with DPF on skin-colour: it does not matter. What counts is the individual’s education and desire to succeed.

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  55. Scott Chris (5,974 comments) says:

    Is the Dalai Lama or other Tibetans “Tibetan Supremacists” for being against Tibet becoming majority Han Chinese?

    There’s a big difference between integration and hegemony. Irrelevant comparison.

    On the other hand, it may pay to formalise and amalgamate our constitution in order to establish the philosophical tenets upon which our society is founded so that immigrants, no matter what colour or creed, accept and abide by those principles upon arriving in this country.

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  56. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    ***There’s a big difference between integration and hegemony. Irrelevant comparison.***

    Wrong. If a group become more influential via demographic dominance then you get the same result. Look at “white flight” from places like South Auckland. Or for another example, African-Americans driven out of suburbs in LA.

    ****If you want to look at the whole evolution of humans then there are Africans and the rest have come from Africa.***

    @ Pete George,

    Yes, and they continued to change after they left – hence group differences.

    http://evoandproud.blogspot.co.nz/2009/07/natural-selection-has-altered-at-least.html

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  57. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “RB: so just to clarify, immigration is ok, if it’s white people going to white countries? Is that your position?”

    Are you thick or something? Why are such simple concepts apparently so difficult for you to grasp? Have you had an education? Can you read? Can you comprehend what you read? If you can’t do any of those things, what the fuck are you doing here?

    I don’t care what colour of skin an immigrant might have. I just do not want traditional European Christian based culture to be treated as a doormat by other cultures, and have its strong points diluted by inferior cultures. Especially when such inferior cultures are forced upon us en masse by some unrepresentative self appointed elitist bureaucrat.

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  58. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    I don’t care what colour of skin an immigrant might have, I just do not want traditional European Christian-based culture to be treated as a doormart by other cultures, and have its strong points diluted by inferior cultures.

    Bravo!

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  59. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    ***On the other hand, it may pay to formalise and amalgamate our constitution in order to establish the philosophical tenets upon which our society is founded so that immigrants, no matter what colour or creed, accept and abide by those principles upon arriving in this country.***

    Groups have diverse evolutionary histories and cultures. As the Communists found out, people aren’t infinitely malleable.

    This is the kind of blank slate thinking that has allowed the US to let places like California get slowly transformed for the worse. No amount of rhetoric about the constitution can change that.

    http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_1_mexifornia.html

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  60. Aredhel777 (282 comments) says:

    “New Zealand needs to get in on this emerging edge. All major secondary schools in Auckland and Wellington at least should be offering Mandarin.”

    I’d rather New Zealanders learned to read and write English properly first <_<

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  61. ChardonnayGuy (1,184 comments) says:

    Well, I’m the third-generation descendant of an Indian granddad and in the case of my mother, Ngai Tahu Maori. For that reason, I tend to loathe anti-immigrant racist ratbags of any melanin pigmentation. And I’m quite respectful of the Confucian work ethic- nice and entrepreneurial. If anything, we need more of it here. Once again, what is so leftist about multiculturalism? Let’s face it- this will be the Chinese Century, and consequently, we need to adapt our culture to deal with the impending global hegemony of China, possibly India and perhaps even Brazil. Think of the scale of that market and its continued economic growth. We need to have the strategic skill set to be able to adapt to the coming multipolar world. In an open economy, we need skilled immigrants of whatever ethnicity.

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  62. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    ***anti-immigrant racist ratbags ***

    What’s your view on Japan? What about India and its border fence with Bangladesh?

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  63. david c (254 comments) says:

    “I just do not want traditional European Christian based culture to be treated as a doormat by other cultures, and have its strong points diluted by inferior cultures”

    That’s an interesting point. Who is the arbiter of what cultures are inferior? Are there any that are superior? And is the “traditional European Christian based culture” that you speak of, only superior because you are a member of it?

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  64. ChardonnayGuy (1,184 comments) says:

    From what I understand, Japan does have its own racist anti-Korean attitudes, and as for India, I am certainly not an apologist for its Jammu/Kashmir human rights violations. Or Brazil’s military coups. Or China’s human rights violations or arms industry.

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  65. Tom Jackson (2,518 comments) says:

    “The changing face of New Zealand. And when was an electorate ever asked about such a fundamental change?”

    I know. Why couldn’t all those South Africans have stayed home and faced up to racial justice. ;-)

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  66. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    ***In an open economy, we need skilled immigrants of whatever ethnicity.***

    I would generally agree with that provided they are culturally compatible. For example, I wouldn’t want to see 2 million Islamic electrical engineers to move to NZ because even though they would bring valuable skills, I wouldn’t want NZ to adopt sharia law (assuming they wanted that).

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  67. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    @ David C,

    Are these cultures & beliefs inferior? Or just different :)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18900803

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17006924

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  68. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Is this “culture” superior?
    http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm

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  69. david c (254 comments) says:

    @ Bob R and Manolo

    Cherry picking specific items about specific sub-groups does not a culture make. C’mon, play better than that. I could point you to all sorts of atrocities carried out by white Judeo-Christians. That doesn’t mean white Judeo-Christian culture is an abomination.

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  70. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “Who is the arbiter of what cultures are inferior?”

    I am as a rational human being. And so are all other rational human beings. And so would you be if you weren’t so clearly an ignorant of history brain fucked PC robot.

    “I could point you to all sorts of atrocities carried out by white Judeo-Christians.”

    Oh gawd, here we go again- another homosexual or obsessive secular progressive. They’re like fucking broken records. Every issue has to be diverted to some hate fest against Christianity.

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  71. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    and western civilisation.

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  72. david c (254 comments) says:

    I tried RB, I tried to engage you in rational debate but you unsurprisingly went ad hominem AND strawman. That’s two argument fallacies in one paragraph.

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  73. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    Sorry Davey, I just do not have the patience to deal with indoctrinated Marxists, especially when all the can bring to the table is dumb insinuating questions.

    (what do you know of “critical theory”)

    I’ve just got one argument for you self hating losers.

    Its look at a map of the world and tell me where democracy and free speech and individual liberty is held in regard (or at least that was true until the like of you became politically ascendant) and then tell me what is the common factor in all of these places.

    If you can’t see it you’re not only brain damaged you’re blind as well.

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  74. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Your cultural relativism is amazing, david c.

    Do you consider all cultures equal, regardless of achievement or intellectual advancement? Can you equate ancient Egyptians with past Melanesians, or France from the 18th century with West Africa of the same period?

    What are your reference points?

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  75. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “Why couldn’t all those South Africans have stayed home and faced up to racial justice.”

    AKA race murder.

    Tom is another blind communist who thinks all the red on his colleagues’ hands is just paint.

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  76. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    ***Cherry picking specific items about specific sub-groups does not a culture make. C’mon, play better than that. I could point you to all sorts of atrocities carried out by white Judeo-Christians. That doesn’t mean white Judeo-Christian culture is an abomination.***

    @ david c,

    Well, if you look at the accomplishments from j-c culture it seems to stand out as more successful than most. You don’t think that the general treatment of women in Islam is perhaps, less desirable than how they are treated in “judeo-christian’ culture? Female genital mutilation is just one example.

    Cousin marriage is another, despite the health risks.

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  77. adam2314 (377 comments) says:

    nasska (4,659) Says:
    October 2nd, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    ” & the growing slums of South Auckland ”

    Have you taken a drive around Mount Roskill lately ??

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  78. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    80% of our population growth in the last couple of decades has been the net inflow of non NZ citizens .

    “Among policy and analytical circles in New Zealand there is a pretty high degree of enthusiasm for high levels of immigration. Some of that stems from the insights of literature on increasing returns to scale. Whatever the general global story, the actual productivity track record here in the wake of very strong inward migration is poor. In an Australian context, the Productivity Commission – hardly a hot-bed of xenophobia or populism – concluded that any benefits from migration to Australia were captured by migrants and there were few or no discernible economic benefits to Australians. And that was in a country already rich and successful and with materially higher national saving and domestic investment rates than those in NZ.”
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/downloads/pdfs/mi-jarrett-comm.pdf

    Government policies blamed for house prices
    “Immigration and tax breaks for investment in residential property are being cited as the underlying causes of steep increases in the cost of housing over the past decade.
    New Zealand now boasts one of the highest rates of home unaffordability in the world as a result of prices rising far faster than incomes, and the government’s Savings Working Group blames that squarely on the policies of successive governments.
    Although “the favourable tax treatment of property investment” accounted for about 50% of house price increases between 2001 and 2007, the working group said, there was also strong evidence that rapid swings in immigration brought about price-rise “shocks”.
    There was a sharp spike in immigration in 2001, 2002 and 2003 and, said working group committee member Dr Andrew Coleman, it appeared that property prices did not fall anywhere near as greatly when immigration fell again.
    The report added that there was little evidence that immigration boosted local incomes. In fact, the need to build roads and schools meant that net migration contributed to the national deficit. ”
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/4622459/Government-policies-blamed-for-house-prices

    Productivity Commision:
    We recommend that you:
    a agree to the inquiry selection process set out in Appendix 1
    Agree/disagree
    b agree that Commission’s second tranche of inquiries be selected on the degree that
    they:
    are relatively uncontroversial given the desire to establish broad political support for the Commission

    [so don't rock the boat for Nation, Labour, Greens or Untied Future- avoid immigration]
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/informationreleases/productivitycommission/pdfs/t2011-2000.pdf

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  79. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    Reporting Superdiversity. The
    Mass Media and Immigration
    in New Zealand
    Paul Spoonley & Andrew Butcher
    -
    After 1997, and certainly since 2000, opinion and feature writers
    adopted a very different approach, prompted in part by a major downturn in Asian
    immigration and a greater appreciation of at least the economic benefits of
    immigration but also as a result of a growing awareness amongst journalists that
    they had a role to play in explaining (positively)* the complex issues of immigration.
    There was a realisation, from both managers and the journalists concerned, that these
    new migrants were an increasingly significant audience in their own right, underlined
    by the decline in print sales and revenue.

    *aren’t journalists supposed to be objective?
    ——————————————————————————-
    Q+A
    JESSICA MUTCH INTERVIEWS PAUL SPOONLEY

    JESSICA – Let’s talk a little bit about that population spread. Why are so many people moving to Auckland?

    PAUL – Well, Auckland – there’s an agglomeration effect, so the bigger Auckland becomes, there more attractive it becomes. It becomes more attractive economically, but it also becomes more attractive as a place to live. And so we’re seeing the sort of perimeters of New Zealand, the regions, beginning to flat-line, so they’re not growing, and we’re now beginning to see the first of regions beginning to decline.

    ………………
    What about traffic, strained infrastructure, house prices?
    As long as National. Labour , Big Tobacco (United Future) and the Greens uphold the consensus the connection between those things isn’t elucidated. The public think: I must be the only one who thinks like that?

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  80. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    By far the greatest beneficiaries of high immigration are the immigrants, not the resident population.
    High immigration lowers per capita productivity growth, a key to sustainable growth.
    It retards the growth of per capita wealth.
    It accelerates the rate of food importation. (Australia imported a record $8.5 billion worth of food in 2008-09.)
    It accelerates the increase in urban overcrowding and traffic congestion.
    It increases Australia’s greenhouse emissions, per capita.
    It makes it unlikely Australia can meet its targets of greenhouse gas emission reduction.
    It lowers Australia’s food security.
    All of this poses the question, if Melbourne is going to become a city of 5 million people, but only by sucking resources from the rest of the country, what’s in it for the rest of the country?
    Nothing. It should not be surprise then, that on Saturday night Victoria, the state so reliant on big government and big immigration, went hard for Labor and a Melbourne Prime Minister.
    It wasn’t just parochialism, it was greed.
     

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-yarra-monster-is-killing-us-20100822-13apt.html#ixzz22GnjXjDy

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  81. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    ChardonnayGuy (19) Says:

    Let’s face it- this will be the Chinese Century, and consequently, we need to adapt our culture to deal with the impending global hegemony of China, possibly India and perhaps even Brazil. Think of the scale of that market and its continued economic growth.
    ….
    Economic growth measured in things that matter such lot size, home affordability and quality of life (unpolluted rivers, beaches. Ability to catch fish without people fighting -as happened on Brighton Pier). Easy to see the the real estate industry (Harcourts Shanghai) share your views.

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  82. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    ChardonnayGuy (19) Says:
    October 2nd, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    Well, I’m the third-generation descendant of an Indian granddad and in the case of my mother, Ngai Tahu Maori. For that reason, I tend to loathe anti-immigrant racist ratbags of any melanin pigmentation

    quite possibly although Maori are concerned about immigration as one thing you can say about Maori culture it is based on few people, big environment.
    On the net no one knows your a dog.

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  83. Steve (North Shore) (4,522 comments) says:

    Dime@10.24 is onto it. The Asians do good business, sure they haggle, but it is usualy a fair deal done in a nice manner.
    Asians open new businesses, create jobs, pay tax etc etc, unlike some with the hand out on everything that moves.

    Btw, Moon Festival at Northcote Town Center this weekend, thoroughly enjoyable.
    http://www.northcote.co.nz/promotion.html
    Nice to see some in their nation costume instaed of in a grass skirt and poking tongue out.
    sorry about the linkwhoring, but they don’t get enough advertising

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  84. wat dabney (3,721 comments) says:

    Yay! A thread tailor-made for hj and his carefully selected and rather dog-eared collection of links.

    By the way this thread doesn’t count for the hj drinking game, where you have to down a shot every time he introduces his tired anti-immigration views into a completely unrelated thread.

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  85. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “where you have to down a shot every time he introduces his tired anti-immigration views into a completely unrelated thread.”

    Like you never do with your obsessive intolerance of Christianity of course.

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  86. wat dabney (3,721 comments) says:

    Red,

    You’ll find I point out the objections to worshipping an imaginary evil space pixie only after others have already dragged it into the thread.

    Do you see the difference?

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  87. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Well, I’m the third-generation descendant of an Indian granddad and in the case of my mother, Ngai Tahu Maori. For that reason, I tend to loathe anti-immigrant racist ratbags of any melanin pigmentation

    hj, you sound like most other people in NZ. I fail to see the “reason” you speak of. You will find most of the “racists” you speak of have a similar background. BTW, people are naturally racist, in that they prefer their own cultural or racial group. No where more so than in Asian cultures. I can assure you that most of the world does not hold your liberal Western values on this topic. They certainly do not in India, home of the dreadful caste system.

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  88. OneTrack (2,815 comments) says:

    david c @ 3:10

    “Cherry picking specific items about specific sub-groups does not a culture make. C’mon, play better than that. I could point you to all sorts of atrocities carried out by white Judeo-Christians.”

    ok, yes, please point out some of those atrocities. But make them current please ie from yesterday, or maybe last week. I am sure you will be able to quickly find relevant examples. A google search for “judeo-christian chris stevens” should quickly locate all sort of similar atrocities performed by those bad christians.

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  89. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    Kea (134):

    I don’t see Chardonnay Guys reasons either. He says he has Indian and Maori blood and *therefore* “loathe(s) anti-immigrant racist ratbags of any melanin” pigmentation. It is a conceit to link anti immigration feeling to racism.

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  90. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    I’m really glad I was born in Wellington not Auckland.

    Course I probably really wish I had been born in Invercargill ! :)

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  91. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    wat dabney (1,985) Says:
    October 2nd, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    Yay! A thread tailor-made for hj and his carefully selected and rather dog-eared collection of links.

    By the way this thread doesn’t count for the hj drinking game, where you have to down a shot every time he introduces his tired anti-immigration views into a completely unrelated thread.
    …..
    So you believe the NZ Productivity Commision is independant when the terms of refererence: • are relatively uncontroversial given the desire to establish broad political support for the Commission [National, Labour , Keith Locke and Big Tobacco]?
    You think the Savings Working Group (“a great bunch of thinkers” -Matt Nolan) got it all wrong?
    You don’t agree with the Australian Productivity Commission?
    You don’t believe journalist should remain objective?
    You think Auckland becomes a better place to live as more and more people flood in?
    You don’t think the public should be consulted about changes to immigration policy as long as National Realestate, Ponsy Labour, Keith Locke Greens and Little Tobacco are in on it?

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  92. Griff (6,995 comments) says:

    Hj
    its watwat
    do you expect cognitive discussion?

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  93. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    Btw Big Tobacco = (what’s it’s name) United Future, although half-way through the post I decided to call it “little tobacco’ to reflect it’s small support.

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  94. Viking2 (11,275 comments) says:

    Well watch out for the next big rush.
    Becuase of the policy of one child in China and Indian and Chiunese penchant for male cjildren the population balance in those two countries is out of kilter.
    Look out for mass male migration in search of ladies. (lockup your daughters)

    It will happen. Nature abhors a vacumn and that’s whats been created.

    Mind you if the Chinese men have any brains they will opt for Brazillion cutee’s and not Maori.

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  95. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    Sheesh. Big Tobacco is just sheet man!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE_-LvMtgnw&feature=fvwrel

    Smoke dog sheet man!! :)

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  96. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    Brazillion cutee’s and even Maori may be looking for someone who measures up better than the average Chinaman V2.

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  97. Griff (6,995 comments) says:

    Lots of Brazillion cutee’s on waiheke love the cut of their bikinis :wink:

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  98. Tom Jackson (2,518 comments) says:

    “Tom is another blind communist who thinks all the red on his colleagues’ hands is just paint.”

    I think being blind would make it difficult to form any such belief.

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  99. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson (110) Says:
    October 2nd, 2012 at 2:53 pm
    “The changing face of New Zealand. And when was an electorate ever asked about such a fundamental change?”

    I know. Why couldn’t all those South Africans have stayed home and faced up to racial justice.
    …………………………………..
    A diversionary rather than direct answer to: And when was an electorate ever asked about such a fundamental change?”

    the answer (I suspect) is “ah! but we know best!”

    another fundamental question the left avoid is why the higjh birth rate of Maori and Pacifica children should not be linked to child poverty.

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  100. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    There exists a fundamental inadequacy in our body politic due to the fact that the environmental position is stolen by leftists who turn a blind eye when “we know the enemy and it is us” (as in numbers, as in immigrants). They turn a blind eye because they are not environmentalists they are first and foremost leftists. If they stuck to their own party ( Mana / Socialist Unity) they would earn respect, otherwise they (red-greens) are loathsome scum.
    Like charity, environmentalism begins at home.
    he! [punches air with fist]

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  101. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    The usurping of the environmental position by your mates is a bigger is a much bigger crime than what the spooks did to Kim Dotcoms privacy Ging!
    When’s the annual Waihopai -”they might be spying on us?”- spy base protest., Ging?

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  102. ChardonnayGuy (1,184 comments) says:

    In practise, in New Zealand politics anyway, anti-immigrant racism tends to be the province of the Winston Cult and points even more distasteful on the further right, like the hell’s cauldron of interneccine and squabbling white supremacist sects of Christchurch. Which are, basically, a squalid collection of drug-addled, drug-dealing, quasi-alcohol, dysfunctionally parented and usually criminal followers of overseas similar white supremacist inadequates from Australia, the United Kingdom and United States. Which tend not to be sympathetic to classical liberal economics, for that matter, because originally, fascism was a corporatist organisation that competed with social democratic parties for the loyalty of the more backward segments of white working class voters. Scum, basically.

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  103. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    ChardonnayGuy (24) Says

    Your focus is “anti-immigrant racism”. What makes you think you are any sort of expert on anti-immigration sentiment? Setting aside the fact that we are by nature racist to a degree (and that applies to everybody i.e it is part of primate behaviour) there are several reasons people may oppose immigration:
    1. competition for housing, land, living space. Rising house prices. Prior to Labours changes to immigration policy there was little need for infill housing.
    2. traffic jams were once unheard of in our cities.
    3. most of the older generation grew up in a different time when NZ was definitely not for sale. You lived in your favourite seaside town because you wanted to not because prices were rising and the good sites disappearing
    4. access to uncrowded fishing spots.
    5. immigrants can drive down wages.
    6. because the growth of the human population doesn’t follow a plan, other than the rules set for bacteria in a petri dish.
    7. Because the issue is always shot down by the beneficiaries of immigration (especially the well resource property sector) and well meaning people on the left whose humanitarian rule doesn’t fit when the enemy is us.

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  104. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    8. because as well as being bad for the urban environment it has been bad for the economy, the key to that is capital diversion for infrastructure.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/4622459/Government-policies-blamed-for-house-prices
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/downloads/pdfs/mi-jarrett-comm.pdf

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  105. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    9. We weren’t consulted but we get (potentially) people with a completely set of values,eg people who grew up in the worlds most crowded cities with no experience of the NZ that existed in the past.

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